Re: Need some help figuring out LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Hi Madhusudan,

Just to tell you that I am originally a pure latexian, I have done my PhD
and some papers in pure LaTeX, until I have discovered Scientfic Workplace
and immediately switched because I have found that I could better focus on
what I am trying to say, rather on its expression in LaTeX. But SWP has
always been clumsy for me, and its integration with pure LaTeX has taken
some time (I remember my joy when they introduced the "portable" latex
format). In the mean time, I have been followed the development of LyX and
made several trials to grok it, without any success. For me the interface
was not natural either. But all this changed when I have taken time to read
the tutorials and the manuals, and I use mainly LyX today (except when I am
collaborating with people who have not discovered yet its joy and work in
pure latex - in this case I use Sublime Text with the Latexing plugin, a
very agreeable setup for working in pure latex). I have definitely stopped
using SWP, since I find day LyX today is the most powerful and flexible
document editor, if you accept its logic, instead of trying to impose yours
on it (you could do it somewhat, using the tricks indicated in other posts,
but it will never be completely comfortable and natural). By the way, I
have been doing all my beamers in LyX for some years now, and I am very
happy with it.  Keynote is quite nice, but there is no comparison possible
for me  with LyX+KnitR+bibtex+beamer, just as an example.

Just my two cents: I invite to take some time to check the manuals and the
example documents (they are hidden in the LyX bundle in OSX) before making
your final decision.

Murat




2014/1/4 Madhusudan Singh 

> I last "used" LyX about 16 years ago.
>
> I have used LaTeX extensively for about 18 years, have contributed class
> files, know how to work around most problems there. Its unseemly to call
> oneself an expert in something you are not trained in, but I know my way
> around it.
>
> I love LaTeX beamer (I have created two of the color schemes among other
> contributions to it).
>
> I am trying to create beamer presentations for a set of lectures. While
> using LaTeX source for a professional conference presentation and the like
> is my first choice (strangely, I love Keynote as well), its rather tiresome
> for lectures that run into 30 slides or so per lecture. The main problem
> (and time consumption I see) is the inability to effectively "drag and
> drop" things into LaTeX. I often copy figures from my other previous
> presentations, so I usually do not already have them on the disk. Yes, I
> have tried TeXmacs (which I think is a great project with some unique
> features, but it suffers from having no seamless integration with LaTeX).
>
> LyX, strangely enough, once you get past the unintuitive and drab (from
> the late 90's) interface does allow a cut/copy and paste. However, the same
> things that turned me off LyX 16 years ago (a very confusing way to enter
> stuff) are beginning to give me a headache. Put simply, I find LyX
> confusing. Its not seamless. The preamble goes to a box inside document
> settings (I mean, really?). If I enter any LaTeX code with command+L (I am
> using this on a Mac), it stares at me in ugly red on that sickly pale
> yellow background. How do I "convert" it to visual form (LaTeXIt or
> preview-latex style)?
>
> I have defined some rather nifty beamer macros that I started using with
> LaTeXian (its commercial) which is a beautiful piece of software. If I put
> them into the preamble, is there any way to get a live preview? After all,
> if I type in stuff in LyX without using any LaTeX commands, I am staring at
> a live preview of sorts. So, LyX should have the capability to "understand"
> the LaTeX I have thrown at it and process it (TeXmacs does this, btw.).
>
> I have searched through forums etc. for some defining work philosophy of
> LyX. I find numerous references to how it is supposed to be so much easier
> than LaTeX. Such statements are generally written to cater to LaTeX scared
> wannabes from the Microsoft Word nightmare land.
>
> But can someone help this hardcore LaTeX guy get LyX? I am using it out of
> necessity (Keynote files are huge and I just do not think it is a good idea
> to waste so much space). So, I want to be able to love it :)
>



-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Note: Please use the following address as such

UNIVERSITE DE BORDEAUX
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
MURAT YILDIZOGLU
16 AVENUE LEON DUGUIT
CS 50057
33608 PESSAC CEDEX
FRANCE

Bureau : E-331

mail: yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

web: yildizoglu.info

Re: Need some help figuring out LyX

[Scott Kostyshak]

I do not think that drag-and-drop is a good reason to switch to LyX.
You will suffer if you're the type that loves writing all the LaTeX
yourself. I'm sorry that you're using it "out of necessity". I've had
to use software out of necessity before and it is a horrible feeling.

You clearly want to customize things and in LyX there is a lot of room
for this. Take a read of Help > Customization. You can create your own
inset that will put stuff in the preamble (so it would be inside of
the document instead of going to Document > Settings). For this do a
search for the word "InPreamble" in Help > Customization.

That manual will also show you how to change the color of ERT. One way
to do this is to put the following in Document > Settings > Local
Layout:

InsetLayout ERT
LabelString   ERT
LatexType none
Decorationminimalistic
Font
 Family  typewriter
EndFont
LabelFont
 Color   latex
 SizeSmall
EndFont
MultiPar  true
CustomParsfalse
ForcePlaintrue
PassThru  true
ParbreakIsNewline true
KeepEmpty true
FreeSpacing   true
ForceLTR  true
End

For more permanent ways, read the Customization manual.

To preview your custom LaTeX, put it in a preview box (Insert > Preview).

Feedback is appreciated, but please be specific (e.g. with proposed
solutions not "it's ugly") and send patches; and be open to the
possibility that others don't like things the way you do.

Although I don't think it will happen, I really hope that you end up
falling in love with LyX and staying around the list to offer
suggestions. I really think that LyX has a lot to offer power LaTeX
users and this side is not often seen.

Scott

On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Ingar Pareliussen
 wrote:
> I think you'll never be satisfied with LyX if you try to shoehorn LyX into 
> something it is not, a LaTeX-editor.
>
> You are right that most what is written about LyX is not written for people 
> coming from LaTeX, this might be a shortcoming from the LyX community. But I 
> guess the most important is that understand that LyX is not meant to write 
> LaTeX, but documents. For one coming from LaTeX  the biggest change moving to 
> LyX would be the removal of the LaTeX markup from the document. The reason of 
> removing the markup is to read and write the text more quickly, even math. If 
> you find writing the markup and reading/writing the document a non-issue you 
> should get a LaTeX editor, there are plenty. Even online: 
> https://www.writelatex.com/
>
> However, if you want to try LyX as a document processor here is some thought 
> from your experience:
>
> The preamble is a bit tucked away, but usually you only change it initially, 
> when you have set it up you make a template of the document and use that when 
> you start a new document.
>
> If you have a lot of beamer macroes there is several ways to integrate those 
> into LyX. you could make a layout-file that magically incorporates the macros 
> into the preamble and give you the macros along with the rest of the 
> beamermacros in the gui. Or you could make a template and add the macros in 
> the preamble and use ERT to access it (however, as you remarked this will 
> stand out from the rest of the document, as it is only meant as a last 
> resort), or you could add them as local styles connected to the document, but 
> integrated into the menus. What to chose is down to the type of macros, I 
> guess. It is all about the best way of hiding the markup away.
>
> Ingar Pareliussen

SV: Need some help figuring out LyX

[Ingar Pareliussen]

I think you'll never be satisfied with LyX if you try to shoehorn LyX into 
something it is not, a LaTeX-editor.

You are right that most what is written about LyX is not written for people 
coming from LaTeX, this might be a shortcoming from the LyX community. But I 
guess the most important is that understand that LyX is not meant to write 
LaTeX, but documents. For one coming from LaTeX  the biggest change moving to 
LyX would be the removal of the LaTeX markup from the document. The reason of 
removing the markup is to read and write the text more quickly, even math. If 
you find writing the markup and reading/writing the document a non-issue you 
should get a LaTeX editor, there are plenty. Even online: 
https://www.writelatex.com/

However, if you want to try LyX as a document processor here is some thought 
from your experience:

The preamble is a bit tucked away, but usually you only change it initially, 
when you have set it up you make a template of the document and use that when 
you start a new document.

If you have a lot of beamer macroes there is several ways to integrate those 
into LyX. you could make a layout-file that magically incorporates the macros 
into the preamble and give you the macros along with the rest of the 
beamermacros in the gui. Or you could make a template and add the macros in the 
preamble and use ERT to access it (however, as you remarked this will stand out 
from the rest of the document, as it is only meant as a last resort), or you 
could add them as local styles connected to the document, but integrated into 
the menus. What to chose is down to the type of macros, I guess. It is all 
about the best way of hiding the markup away.

Ingar Pareliussen

Re: Need some help figuring out LyX

[Rich Shepard]

On Sat, 4 Jan 2014, Madhusudan Singh wrote:


Put simply, I find LyX confusing. Its not seamless. The preamble goes to a
box inside document settings (I mean, really?).


  Without doubt, someone will find issues regardless of how the menus are
organized. Once you're used to them (and I replaced LaTeX/emacs with LyX
many years ago), it becomes familiar and easy.


If I enter any LaTeX code with command+L (I am using this on a Mac), it
stares at me in ugly red on that sickly pale yellow background. How do I
"convert" it to visual form (LaTeXIt or preview-latex style)?


  By changing the colors to what you want? Try Tools => Preferences -> Look
& Feel -> Colors. I much prefer the pale yellow background to the bright
white background that used to be the default. Of course, I work with linux,
not OS X.


I have defined some rather nifty beamer macros that I started using with
LaTeXian (its commercial) which is a beautiful piece of software. If I put
them into the preamble, is there any way to get a live preview? After all,
if I type in stuff in LyX without using any LaTeX commands, I am staring at
a live preview of sorts. So, LyX should have the capability to "understand"
the LaTeX I have thrown at it and process it (TeXmacs does this, btw.).


  Have you tried  ^x-p (for print preview using emacs keyboard shortcuts)?
That's how I check for overlong lines and other aspects that need to be
tweaked. What I see on the screen looks nothing like the compiled output,
but the preview (and it must be somewhere on a menu) shows me what the TeX
output looks like.


I have searched through forums etc. for some defining work philosophy of
LyX. I find numerous references to how it is supposed to be so much easier
than LaTeX. Such statements are generally written to cater to LaTeX scared
wannabes from the Microsoft Word nightmare land.


  I find it much easier to use than LaTeX because it requires less typing.
For frequently used functions I have defined keyboard chords. For the rest,
I either click on the icon or (much less frequently) traverse the menus. As
a touch-typist I prefer to keep my hands on the keyboard, but rather than
typing all the LaTeX commands I let LyX enter them for me with a simple
chord or icon click.


But can someone help this hardcore LaTeX guy get LyX? I am using it out of
necessity (Keynote files are huge and I just do not think it is a good idea
to waste so much space). So, I want to be able to love it :)


  Just like the advice to the budding musician who asked a native New Yorker
how to get to Carnegie Hall: practice, practice, practice. :-)

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.  |  Have knowledge, will travel.
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.   |
 Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Need some help figuring out LyX

[Madhusudan Singh]

I last "used" LyX about 16 years ago.

I have used LaTeX extensively for about 18 years, have contributed class
files, know how to work around most problems there. Its unseemly to call
oneself an expert in something you are not trained in, but I know my way
around it.

I love LaTeX beamer (I have created two of the color schemes among other
contributions to it).

I am trying to create beamer presentations for a set of lectures. While
using LaTeX source for a professional conference presentation and the like
is my first choice (strangely, I love Keynote as well), its rather tiresome
for lectures that run into 30 slides or so per lecture. The main problem
(and time consumption I see) is the inability to effectively "drag and
drop" things into LaTeX. I often copy figures from my other previous
presentations, so I usually do not already have them on the disk. Yes, I
have tried TeXmacs (which I think is a great project with some unique
features, but it suffers from having no seamless integration with LaTeX).

LyX, strangely enough, once you get past the unintuitive and drab (from the
late 90's) interface does allow a cut/copy and paste. However, the same
things that turned me off LyX 16 years ago (a very confusing way to enter
stuff) are beginning to give me a headache. Put simply, I find LyX
confusing. Its not seamless. The preamble goes to a box inside document
settings (I mean, really?). If I enter any LaTeX code with command+L (I am
using this on a Mac), it stares at me in ugly red on that sickly pale
yellow background. How do I "convert" it to visual form (LaTeXIt or
preview-latex style)?

I have defined some rather nifty beamer macros that I started using with
LaTeXian (its commercial) which is a beautiful piece of software. If I put
them into the preamble, is there any way to get a live preview? After all,
if I type in stuff in LyX without using any LaTeX commands, I am staring at
a live preview of sorts. So, LyX should have the capability to "understand"
the LaTeX I have thrown at it and process it (TeXmacs does this, btw.).

I have searched through forums etc. for some defining work philosophy of
LyX. I find numerous references to how it is supposed to be so much easier
than LaTeX. Such statements are generally written to cater to LaTeX scared
wannabes from the Microsoft Word nightmare land.

But can someone help this hardcore LaTeX guy get LyX? I am using it out of
necessity (Keynote files are huge and I just do not think it is a good idea
to waste so much space). So, I want to be able to love it :)