[M100] Cassette-emulator ?

[Jan Vanden Bossche]

We have several TPDD emulators, on several platforms, wich is great, because 
those relieve us from having to maintain old electromechanical hardware.

But is there a cassette-player-emulator ?
That would be quite handy for people that can't or don't want to upgrade their 
machine, and are content to keep using it with just tape-like storage. Also, 
you wouldn't have to load ROMware or client-software.

If there was, it would be compatible, not only for the Model T's, but virtually 
all across the TRS-80 line, Model I, Model III (and M4 in III mode) Coco 1, 2 & 
3, probably a lot of pocket computers also, and maybe even non-Tandy computers 
? (MSX maybe ?)

So, assuming one doesn't exist, would it be difficult to build? Analog storage 
? Digital storage? AD-DA reproduction ? Arduino, perhaps ?

Just some wild thinking ...

Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus
Jan-80 


  

Re: [M100] TPDD : use with CP/M with 8.3 file names

[Stephen Adolph]

I my pieces of the code.. sure.  Need to check with Philip for the other
pieces.

I would think that there would be some small changes to make it work on a
px8.  For example you would need to know how to access the serial port etc.

..steve

On Saturday, April 3, 2021, Brian K. White  wrote:

> On 4/3/21 7:40 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>
>> HI all,
>>
>> I've been toying with ways to read and write normal CP/M files to real
>> TPDD hardware.  I'm happy to report that, as I thought, TPDDs don't care
>> about the format of the filename.  So they will accept filenames that are
>> 8.3 format vs normal M100 files which are 6.2 format.
>>
>> There could be 2 ways to use TPDD with CP/M:
>> 1) use the TPDD in "operation mode" which is the normal mode for use with
>> M100/ TS-DOS etc,. (TPDD1 and TPDD2 support this)
>> 2) use the TPDD in "FDC mode" (TPDD1 only)
>>
>> CP/M disks are typically block devices, so option (2) would be the
>> natural choice if one was really integrating TPDD as a B: drive.  But..
>> this is a lot of work and would eliminate TPDD2.
>>
>> The other way to go is to just write CP/M utilities that can load, save
>> and kill files, as well as provide directory.  In the end this is what I
>> did.  I used Philip Avery's code for Import and Export, and reworked them
>> to deal with native 8.3 format file names.
>>
>> Much of the work was done on VirtualT, but not without some challenges.
>> 1) changing serial ports (USB or actual) requires a lot of restarting of
>> VirtualT (Deselect, exit, restart, select, exit, restart)
>> 2) to get VirtualT to communicate with real TPDD, I had to run everythign
>> at 9600 baud.  19200 was unreliable.
>> 3)  TS-DOS itself does not run reliably between VirtualT and real TPDD.
>>
>> Happy to report I have working utilities now for CP/M to use TPDD 1 or 2
>> at 19200 baud. They are
>> TD:  TPDD directory
>> TL:   Load file from TPDD to CP/M A:
>> TS:  Save file from CP/M A: to TPDD
>> TK:  kill named TPDD file
>>
>> Interestingly, LaddieAlpha tolerates 8.3 format names ALREADY!  You have
>> to change the start up batch file parameter from "6" to "8".  In my
>> testing, LaddieAlpha is perfectly happy to accept such file names.
>>
>> The command programs are in the ZIP attached here.
>> The extensions are .CO to support initial loading using IMPORT/EXPORT as
>> 6.2 files.  Once you get them in CP/M, make sure they have.COM extensions.
>>
>> Feedback welcome.
>> Steve
>>
>
> This is wonderful.
> I am surprised there wasn't already some 30 year old CP/M TPDD utilities.
> Maybe there were but just never got archived anywhere.
>
> Could these be ported to other cp/m machines? Are you releasing the
> source? I have a PX-8 that has cp/m in rom.
>
> --
> bkw
>

Re: [M100] Cassette-emulator ?

[Donald Kyllo]

Hi,
I record the cassette sounds into my computer and play them back into my 
M100.  It works well with one of my computers but with the other, the 
computer inverts the signal.  I solve that by connecting the tip 
connector on the output of the computer to the outside connector of the 
M100 and the outside connector of the computer to the tip connector of 
the M100.  I basically invert the signal in wiring.


Don


On 4/3/21 1:37 PM, Jan Vanden Bossche wrote:
We have several TPDD emulators, on several platforms, wich is great, 
because those relieve us from having to maintain old electromechanical 
hardware.


But is there a cassette-player-emulator ?
That would be quite handy for people that can't or don't want to 
upgrade their machine, and are content to keep using it with just 
tape-like storage. Also, you wouldn't have to load ROMware or 
client-software.


If there was, it would be compatible, not only for the Model T's, but 
virtually all across the TRS-80 line, Model I, Model III (and M4 in 
III mode) Coco 1, 2 & 3, probably a lot of pocket computers also, and 
maybe even non-Tandy computers ? (MSX maybe ?)


So, assuming one doesn't exist, would it be difficult to build? Analog 
storage ? Digital storage? AD-DA reproduction ? Arduino, perhaps ?


Just some wild thinking ...


Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus
Jan-80

Re: [M100] TPDD : use with CP/M with 8.3 file names

[Brian K. White]

On 4/3/21 7:40 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote:

HI all,

I've been toying with ways to read and write normal CP/M files to real 
TPDD hardware.  I'm happy to report that, as I thought, TPDDs don't care 
about the format of the filename.  So they will accept filenames that 
are 8.3 format vs normal M100 files which are 6.2 format.


There could be 2 ways to use TPDD with CP/M:
1) use the TPDD in "operation mode" which is the normal mode for use 
with M100/ TS-DOS etc,. (TPDD1 and TPDD2 support this)

2) use the TPDD in "FDC mode" (TPDD1 only)

CP/M disks are typically block devices, so option (2) would be the 
natural choice if one was really integrating TPDD as a B: drive.  But.. 
this is a lot of work and would eliminate TPDD2.


The other way to go is to just write CP/M utilities that can load, save 
and kill files, as well as provide directory.  In the end this is what I 
did.  I used Philip Avery's code for Import and Export, and reworked 
them to deal with native 8.3 format file names.


Much of the work was done on VirtualT, but not without some challenges.
1) changing serial ports (USB or actual) requires a lot of restarting of 
VirtualT (Deselect, exit, restart, select, exit, restart)
2) to get VirtualT to communicate with real TPDD, I had to run 
everythign at 9600 baud.  19200 was unreliable.

3)  TS-DOS itself does not run reliably between VirtualT and real TPDD.

Happy to report I have working utilities now for CP/M to use TPDD 1 or 2 
at 19200 baud. They are

TD:  TPDD directory
TL:   Load file from TPDD to CP/M A:
TS:  Save file from CP/M A: to TPDD
TK:  kill named TPDD file

Interestingly, LaddieAlpha tolerates 8.3 format names ALREADY!  You have 
to change the start up batch file parameter from "6" to "8".  In my 
testing, LaddieAlpha is perfectly happy to accept such file names.


The command programs are in the ZIP attached here.
The extensions are .CO to support initial loading using IMPORT/EXPORT as 
6.2 files.  Once you get them in CP/M, make sure they have.COM extensions.


Feedback welcome.
Steve


This is wonderful.
I am surprised there wasn't already some 30 year old CP/M TPDD 
utilities. Maybe there were but just never got archived anywhere.


Could these be ported to other cp/m machines? Are you releasing the 
source? I have a PX-8 that has cp/m in rom.


--
bkw

Re: [M100] Cassette-emulator ?

[John R. Hogerhuis]

I don't think there is one that we can use off the shelf.  I think the
Vavasour coco emulator had a cassette emulation. I don't know if it stored
an audio file or decoded.

Digital/decoded storage would be the way to go.

The cassette file byte format is understood.

It could be done in a smart phone app or embedded device.


-- John.

>

[M100] Thanks for the link to some T102 programs

[Dave Christensen]

I had an earlier post looking for software for the T102 and received this
link: WEB 8201 - Support for the NEC PC-8201A
 & 8300 laptop
computers

 

Lots of good stuff there.  Anyone else have any links?  Happy Easter to the
group.

Dave Christensen

Re: [M100] TPDD alignment disk / servicing / MICTDC

[Jeffrey Birt]

Most ‘real’ alignment disks are written on special drives that are not only 
very, very precisely calibrated but they can also vary the angle of the head. 
This angled write somehow enhances the ability to detect alignment issues with 
the use of an oscilloscope monitoring the head output (don’t remember the exact 
reasoning off the top of my head.)

 

At some point I found a blog where someone described aligning a TPDD by 
adjusting the position of the home sensor. He just small very small changes 
tried to read a disk, made another small change, etc.

 

On the C64 drives I use commercially produced disks, which are made on fancy 
duplication machines that were kept well aligned. There is C64 software which 
can tell you how close the alignment is (it microsteps the head as I recall so 
it can find at which microstepped position the signal is highest by less 
garbled data I would guess). This works well and can get you close enough for 
the drive to work very reliably.

On the TPDD it might also help to use a commercially produced disk as there is 
a much better chance it was written on a duplication machine that was more 
precise. As original disks seem to be as rare as hen’s teeth these days you 
might be stuck with trying to read a variety of disks written on other TDPPs.

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: M100  On Behalf Of Stephen Adolph
Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2021 7:00 AM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: [M100] TPDD alignment disk / servicing / MICTDC

 

Now that we have the official service manual for TPDD, I am wondering if anyone 
knows something about the alignment disk.

 

It seems like the alignment disk is needed to adjust the track position.

Can we use a "stock disk" for this as well?  Maybe the alignment disk is an 
idealized signal with a golden alignment, but seems like a factory disk might 
do as well.

 

The document also mentions MICTDC program which was provided on a tape 
AXX-2049.  Anyone have that cassette or program?

 

..Steve

[M100] TPDD alignment disk / servicing / MICTDC

[Stephen Adolph]

Now that we have the official service manual for TPDD, I am wondering if
anyone knows something about the alignment disk.

It seems like the alignment disk is needed to adjust the track position.
Can we use a "stock disk" for this as well?  Maybe the alignment disk is an
idealized signal with a golden alignment, but seems like a factory disk
might do as well.

The document also mentions MICTDC program which was provided on a tape
AXX-2049.  Anyone have that cassette or program?

..Steve

[M100] TPDD : use with CP/M with 8.3 file names

[Stephen Adolph]

HI all,

I've been toying with ways to read and write normal CP/M files to real TPDD
hardware.  I'm happy to report that, as I thought, TPDDs don't care about
the format of the filename.  So they will accept filenames that are 8.3
format vs normal M100 files which are 6.2 format.

There could be 2 ways to use TPDD with CP/M:
1) use the TPDD in "operation mode" which is the normal mode for use with
M100/ TS-DOS etc,. (TPDD1 and TPDD2 support this)
2) use the TPDD in "FDC mode" (TPDD1 only)

CP/M disks are typically block devices, so option (2) would be the natural
choice if one was really integrating TPDD as a B: drive.  But.. this is a
lot of work and would eliminate TPDD2.

The other way to go is to just write CP/M utilities that can load, save and
kill files, as well as provide directory.  In the end this is what I did.
I used Philip Avery's code for Import and Export, and reworked them to deal
with native 8.3 format file names.

Much of the work was done on VirtualT, but not without some challenges.
1) changing serial ports (USB or actual) requires a lot of restarting of
VirtualT (Deselect, exit, restart, select, exit, restart)
2) to get VirtualT to communicate with real TPDD, I had to run everythign
at 9600 baud.  19200 was unreliable.
3)  TS-DOS itself does not run reliably between VirtualT and real TPDD.

Happy to report I have working utilities now for CP/M to use TPDD 1 or 2 at
19200 baud. They are
TD:  TPDD directory
TL:   Load file from TPDD to CP/M A:
TS:  Save file from CP/M A: to TPDD
TK:  kill named TPDD file

Interestingly, LaddieAlpha tolerates 8.3 format names ALREADY!  You have to
change the start up batch file parameter from "6" to "8".  In my testing,
LaddieAlpha is perfectly happy to accept such file names.

The command programs are in the ZIP attached here.
The extensions are .CO to support initial loading using IMPORT/EXPORT as
6.2 files.  Once you get them in CP/M, make sure they have.COM extensions.

Feedback welcome.
Steve
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