Re: when man shuts down in march

[Ian McNamara]

No when you've signed in with your messenger account go to murge accounts and 
it will allow you to murge your Skype and messenger together. You then have 
your messenger account as the main one you sign in with from then on.

Ian McNamara
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Remote Desktop Manager

[Ian Harrison]

Hello all,

I have heard the above is a useful app. Can anyone tell me if it is accessible?

Thanks in advance
Ian

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Re: when man shuts down in march

[Sarah k Alawami]

Actually you have until october. but essentially yes. you have to merge our 
skype with your msn now. To do this:

•launch skype
•* sign out
• hit the sign in with msn link or button
•4 sign in with msn
• follow the on screen prompts.

I can sign in with both my skype and msn and both my 300 msn contacts and my 
700 to 900 skype contacts show up in the same list.

Take care.
On Mar 3, 2013, at 10:47 PM, William Lomas  wrote:

>   hi all when man shuts down in march how will people be communicating in 
> Skype?
> if i sign in with MSN ID will all my Skype contact go away 
> 
> 
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Re: mountain lion recovery accessibility and vo

[Will]

when i formatted macbook air mountain linen just downloaded. can i though 
instead of doing all that, just use a time machine backup

On 1 Mar 2013, at 21:38, Sarah k Alawami  wrote:

> Yeah I would like to know the same in case I ever find my mac in that state 
> where I can't even get to the recovery consul. Is that what you all are 
> hinting that is if you sone how blow your recovery partition and the ml 
> partitions you get that question mark and there's not a thing you can do as a 
> blind person to solve it?
> 
> Take care.
> On Mar 1, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
>> What would be the senareo where I'd get what you all're talking about being 
>> accessible, maybe I dont' get it either, but I always thought the recovery 
>> was accessible.
>> 
>> Chris Gilland.
>> Founder of CLG Productions
>> http://www.clgproductions.com
>> E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com
>> Phone: 803-760-7136
>> Toll-Free: 1-888-405-3185
>> Mon-Fri 8A.M-5P.M Eastern Standard Time except weekends and holidays.
>> - Original Message - From: "Josh Gregory" 
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:35
>> Subject: Re: mountain lion recovery accessibility and vo
>> 
>> 
>>> right… When I had the flashing ? I couldn't do a thing  with it I had to 
>>> take it in. And I think they said that that part is not accessible but they 
>>> were going to work on it or something.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>> 
 Agreed, I've never had that happen. GOod to know it isn't accessible. 
 THough one would think the recovery partition would still be, as anything 
 you do to the main one shouldn't impact it.
 On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Sarah k Alawami  wrote:
 
> Oh that I have never had happen. Hmm. so you are saying that part is 
> *not* accessible to us? like if you accidentally reformat your partision 
> where ml is supposed to be?
> 
> Take care.
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
> 
>> No… We mean when you have to download a copy of mountain lion off-line 
>> when it Cant find an operating system. You know, when the flashing 
>> question mark comes up on the screen.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>> 
>>> Wifi is accessible under Mountain Lion.
>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>>> 
 Well it should be… It looks like people are going to need to start 
 campaigning to Apple accessibility.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Sarah k Alawami  
 wrote:
 
> Yeah the wifi part is not accessible, but I just created a flash 
> drive as even with my  15 mbp connection, it will still be slow to 
> download the mountain lion thingy.
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 7:36 AM, Josh Gregory  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chris, that would certainly be nice if you could do that. That 
>> way if I or any other person that can't see had to go into this 
>> mode, they had a way to do it without sighted assistance. Thanks 
>> very much! Oh, it would also be nice if there were a way to do an 
>> Internet install of OS X without sighted help  to…
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:26 AM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> You're correct, however there has gotta be a way to manually enable 
>>> the audio service.  there just has! to be.  That would be silly 
>>> not.  Let me do some digging around, and will then post the exact 
>>> steps on how to do it and get it up and working if there be a way, 
>>> which as I said, there should be. It may involve terminal work, but 
>>> even if so, it shouldn't be anything bad at all.
>>> 
>>> Chris Gilland.
>>> Founder of CLG Productions
>>> http://www.clgproductions.com
>>> E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com
>>> Phone: 803-760-7136
>>> Toll-Free: 1-888-405-3185
>>> Mon-Fri 8A.M-5P.M Eastern Standard Time except weekends and 
>>> holidays.
>>> - Original Message - From: "Josh Gregory" 
>>> 
>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:07
>>> Subject: Re: safe mode and voiceover
>>> 
>>> 
 I believe, that if I'm correct, that when safemode is enabled, OS 
 10 only uses what it needs to boot up, and does not boot up any 
 sound drivers or anything like that.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:02 AM, William Lomas 
  wrote:
 
> hi all when holding 

Re: Anyone using Mudder successfully with 3K?

[Travis Siegel]

It has nothing to do with your mud client.  Vo is configured by  
default to read sequentially.  I have complained to apple several  
times that vo users need a toggle command to allow speech  
interruption, or continuous reading, and my pleas have gone  
unanswered.  What you are experiencing is one of the side effects of  
not having the capability to allow vo to interrupt itself with new  
text.  In my modified copy of muddle, I added speech channels myself,  
and allow vo to interrupt itself as new text comes in.  This allows  
me to follow combat quite satisfactorily.  You don't get to hear the  
entire battle, but honestly, hearing every single hit/miss is a bit  
overboard anyway.  My version of muddle has a few bugs still, but if  
you're comfortable with command line apps, and you'd like a copy of  
my modified muddle client, drop a line off list and I'll ship you a  
copy.  I play 3k and 3scapes quite successfully using muddle modified  
for speech access.  My priceless char is lvl 50, and my costly chars  
are both lvl 30, both on 3k and 3scapes, and I've used nothing but  
muddle for my mudding for years, although, it's only recently I got  
fedup with vo, and wrote my own speech routines into the client.

hth.
On Mar 3, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Orin wrote:


Hi all,
I was just curious if anyone used Mudder successfully on 3Kingdoms?  
Another mud I have issue with is Wayfar1444.
It seems that VoiceOver lags behind the text severely. I think  
VoiceOver is using some kind of buffer, as I can look at the screen  
and know combat is over, but VoiceOver continues to read it even  
after i've looked at it in the history output.

Just curious if anyone has reported this, other than me?

Orin
orin8...@gmail.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
Skype: orin1112



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Re: Anyone using Mudder successfully with 3K?

[Devin Prater]

Hmm, I've used tintin plus or whatever, its pretty good.
sent from my Mac Mini with iCloud.
Devin prater
email and iMessage: d.pra...@me.com or r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com
Skype:
devinprater
msn:
devinpra...@live.com


On Mar 4, 2013, at 10:05 AM, Travis Siegel  wrote:

> It has nothing to do with your mud client.  Vo is configured by default to 
> read sequentially.  I have complained to apple several times that vo users 
> need a toggle command to allow speech interruption, or continuous reading, 
> and my pleas have gone unanswered.  What you are experiencing is one of the 
> side effects of not having the capability to allow vo to interrupt itself 
> with new text.  In my modified copy of muddle, I added speech channels 
> myself, and allow vo to interrupt itself as new text comes in.  This allows 
> me to follow combat quite satisfactorily.  You don't get to hear the entire 
> battle, but honestly, hearing every single hit/miss is a bit overboard 
> anyway.  My version of muddle has a few bugs still, but if you're comfortable 
> with command line apps, and you'd like a copy of my modified muddle client, 
> drop a line off list and I'll ship you a copy.  I play 3k and 3scapes quite 
> successfully using muddle modified for speech access.  My priceless char is 
> lvl 50, and m
 y costly chars are both lvl 30, both on 3k and 3scapes, and I've used nothing 
but muddle for my mudding for years, although, it's only recently I got fedup 
with vo, and wrote my own speech routines into the client.
> hth.
> On Mar 3, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Orin wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> I was just curious if anyone used Mudder successfully on 3Kingdoms? Another 
>> mud I have issue with is Wayfar1444.
>> It seems that VoiceOver lags behind the text severely. I think VoiceOver is 
>> using some kind of buffer, as I can look at the screen and know combat is 
>> over, but VoiceOver continues to read it even after i've looked at it in the 
>> history output.
>> Just curious if anyone has reported this, other than me?
>> 
>> Orin
>> orin8...@gmail.com
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
>> Skype: orin1112
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: when man shuts down in march

[matthew Dyer]

Hi,

I have been having some problems staying signed in  to messenger with skype see 
my last message on this on the blind tech list I rthink that was whare I sent 
it but don't remember.  LOL!  Sorry.

Matthew


On Mar 4, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Ian McNamara wrote:

> No when you've signed in with your messenger account go to murge accounts and 
> it will allow you to murge your Skype and messenger together. You then have 
> your messenger account as the main one you sign in with from then on.
> 
> Ian McNamara
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Re: when msn shuts down in march

[Sarah k Alawami]

Hmm I'm able to sign in to skype with my skype name and see my msn contacts as 
well. and sorry I just had to change the spelling of that subject. lol!

Take care and be blessed.
On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:36 AM, matthew Dyer  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have been having some problems staying signed in  to messenger with skype 
> see my last message on this on the blind tech list I rthink that was whare I 
> sent it but don't remember.  LOL!  Sorry.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> On Mar 4, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Ian McNamara wrote:
> 
>> No when you've signed in with your messenger account go to murge accounts 
>> and it will allow you to murge your Skype and messenger together. You then 
>> have your messenger account as the main one you sign in with from then on.
>> 
>> Ian McNamara
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
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>> 
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>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
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>> unpredictable happen.
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>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: Skype and msn problem

[Sarah k Alawami]

I would contact the skype support team regarding this.

I see the message on the skype english list so we'll take it on that list 
instead.

Be blessed.


On Mar 4, 2013, at 7:40 AM, matthew Dyer  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a problem with skype not staying signed in to msn fpor mpore than a 
> few seconds.  If I try to sign in to msn through skype it just signs me rite 
> back out again.  Any ideas on why tthis might be happening?  Thanks.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
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Re: mountain lion recovery accessibility and vo

[Sarah k Alawami]

and what if the user is out and about and does not have a time machine back up? 
I don't think the mobil back ups work when not connected. and this is with the 
recovery partition blown up btw. not with the recovery partition working, I 
think. someone correct me? as I've never had that issue.
On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Will  wrote:

> when i formatted macbook air mountain linen just downloaded. can i though 
> instead of doing all that, just use a time machine backup
> 
> On 1 Mar 2013, at 21:38, Sarah k Alawami  wrote:
> 
>> Yeah I would like to know the same in case I ever find my mac in that state 
>> where I can't even get to the recovery consul. Is that what you all are 
>> hinting that is if you sone how blow your recovery partition and the ml 
>> partitions you get that question mark and there's not a thing you can do as 
>> a blind person to solve it?
>> 
>> Take care.
>> On Mar 1, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> What would be the senareo where I'd get what you all're talking about being 
>>> accessible, maybe I dont' get it either, but I always thought the recovery 
>>> was accessible.
>>> 
>>> Chris Gilland.
>>> Founder of CLG Productions
>>> http://www.clgproductions.com
>>> E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com
>>> Phone: 803-760-7136
>>> Toll-Free: 1-888-405-3185
>>> Mon-Fri 8A.M-5P.M Eastern Standard Time except weekends and holidays.
>>> - Original Message - From: "Josh Gregory" 
>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:35
>>> Subject: Re: mountain lion recovery accessibility and vo
>>> 
>>> 
 right… When I had the flashing ? I couldn't do a thing  with it I had to 
 take it in. And I think they said that that part is not accessible but 
 they were going to work on it or something.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Feb 28, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
 
> Agreed, I've never had that happen. GOod to know it isn't accessible. 
> THough one would think the recovery partition would still be, as anything 
> you do to the main one shouldn't impact it.
> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Sarah k Alawami  wrote:
> 
>> Oh that I have never had happen. Hmm. so you are saying that part is 
>> *not* accessible to us? like if you accidentally reformat your partision 
>> where ml is supposed to be?
>> 
>> Take care.
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>> 
>>> No… We mean when you have to download a copy of mountain lion off-line 
>>> when it Cant find an operating system. You know, when the flashing 
>>> question mark comes up on the screen.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:
>>> 
 Wifi is accessible under Mountain Lion.
 On Feb 27, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
 
> Well it should be… It looks like people are going to need to start 
> campaigning to Apple accessibility.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Sarah k Alawami  
> wrote:
> 
>> Yeah the wifi part is not accessible, but I just created a flash 
>> drive as even with my  15 mbp connection, it will still be slow to 
>> download the mountain lion thingy.
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 7:36 AM, Josh Gregory  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris, that would certainly be nice if you could do that. That 
>>> way if I or any other person that can't see had to go into this 
>>> mode, they had a way to do it without sighted assistance. Thanks 
>>> very much! Oh, it would also be nice if there were a way to do an 
>>> Internet install of OS X without sighted help  to…
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:26 AM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 You're correct, however there has gotta be a way to manually 
 enable the audio service.  there just has! to be.  That would be 
 silly not.  Let me do some digging around, and will then post the 
 exact steps on how to do it and get it up and working if there be 
 a way, which as I said, there should be. It may involve terminal 
 work, but even if so, it shouldn't be anything bad at all.
 
 Chris Gilland.
 Founder of CLG Productions
 http://www.clgproductions.com
 E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com
 Phone: 803-760-7136
 Toll-Free: 1-888-405-3185
 Mon-Fri 8A.M-5P.M Eastern Standard Time except weekends and 
 holidays.
 - Original Message - From: "Josh Gregory" 
 
 To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:07
 Subject: 

Re: Skype and msn problem

[matthew Dyer]

On Mar 4, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

> I would contact the skype support team regarding this.
> How do you go about doing this?  Thanks.


> I see the message on the skype english list so we'll take it on that list 
> instead.
> 
> Be blessed.
> 
> 
> On Mar 4, 2013, at 7:40 AM, matthew Dyer  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have a problem with skype not staying signed in to msn fpor mpore than a 
>> few seconds.  If I try to sign in to msn through skype it just signs me rite 
>> back out again.  Any ideas on why tthis might be happening?  Thanks.
>> 
>> Matthew
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: Getting into safe mode

[JAMES AUSTIN]

Hi George   
On 4 Mar 2013, at 20:18, George Cham  wrote:
A few weeks ago, I installed anti virus software that caused my Mac to keep 
rebooting. 
This software has now been removed, but its still showing up in menu extras, 
and is still asking me to activate it. 
Can I use VoiceOver in safe mode to get rid of this? 

At the moment, VoiceOver cannot be used in Safe Mode, unless I have missed 
something very recently on that subject from the list.

When you removed the Anti-Virus app from your Applications folder, did you also 
remove all of its associated files in your Library/Application Support folder 
and your Library/Preferences folder? If not you might want to do that. As it is 
an Anti-Virus app, it may also have placed some files in other places like 
System and the root Library but I am not too familiar with how such 
applications work. There may also be an association in your Library/Launch 
Agents folder.

When I say your Library, I am referring to the Library folder that is 
associated with your user account.

You could also try simply going into System Preferences into your Login Items 
screen in the Users and Groups section and deleting the reference.

I hope this helps 
Take care
James 
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Re: Getting into safe mode

[George Cham]

Hi James,
Thnks for the tip.
Went into the library on my hard drive and into applications.
Found the software, and removed it.
It's not in menu extras.

George Cham

george.c...@outlook.com


On 05/03/2013, at 7:29 AM, JAMES AUSTIN  wrote:

> Hi George 
> On 4 Mar 2013, at 20:18, George Cham  wrote:
> A few weeks ago, I installed anti virus software that caused my Mac to keep 
> rebooting. 
> This software has now been removed, but its still showing up in menu extras, 
> and is still asking me to activate it. 
> Can I use VoiceOver in safe mode to get rid of this? 
> 
> At the moment, VoiceOver cannot be used in Safe Mode, unless I have missed 
> something very recently on that subject from the list.
> 
> When you removed the Anti-Virus app from your Applications folder, did you 
> also remove all of its associated files in your Library/Application Support 
> folder and your Library/Preferences folder? If not you might want to do that. 
> As it is an Anti-Virus app, it may also have placed some files in other 
> places like System and the root Library but I am not too familiar with how 
> such applications work. There may also be an association in your 
> Library/Launch Agents folder.
> 
> When I say your Library, I am referring to the Library folder that is 
> associated with your user account.
> 
> You could also try simply going into System Preferences into your Login Items 
> screen in the Users and Groups section and deleting the reference.
> 
> I hope this helps 
> Take care
> James 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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> 
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> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
> 
> 

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Expand Drive Being Useless!

[Harmony Neil]

OK, fair enough I didn't start expand drive on startup, mainly because I didn't 
need it then and couldn't be bothered to start it anyway.  Well when I did 
decide to start expand drive tonight so I could upload a couple of web pages to 
websites, I connected to both servers just fine, but now when I try and copy 
and paste something from my external drive to one of the sites, it refuses, 
saying that "the items on the clipboard could not be copied" and something to 
do with no longer being available or having been deleted, when I know perfectly 
well they haven't.  Does anyone know why it's suddenly started doing this?  It 
was fine the other day.
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Re: Getting into safe mode

[JAMES AUSTIN]

Hi George

You'll might find what your searching for under the "Login Items" in the User 
an Groups section of System Preferences.
James
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error received in calendar

[Cathy]

hello,
please help!
I received the following error in my calendar program after deleting a card in 
my reminder program. the error below was displayed when I tried to add an 
event. what do I do now?

the server responded with an error the request on 
https://caldav.calendar.yahoo.com/principals/users/ (followed by my yahoo 
username)

please help I need this calendar to work!

Cathy

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Re: Getting into safe mode

[Danny Noonan]

Sure is. Just swipe off the information. 1 finger swipe and VO should stop 
speaking it. 

Danny. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 05/03/2013, at 7:18 AM, George Cham  wrote:

> A few weeks ago, I installed anti virus software that caused my Mac to keep 
> rebooting. 
> This software has now been removed, but its still showing up in menu extras, 
> and is still asking me to activate it. 
> Can I use VoiceOver in safe mode to get rid of this? 
> Also I've gone into safe mode, but can't use the mouse to get passed the 
> first screen. 
> 
> 
> Typed with Fleksy
> reply://george.c...@outlook.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George,
> 
>  Sent from my iPad
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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> 
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> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: Getting into safe mode

[Danny Noonan]

Sorry, this is a first. Somehow pressing reply to a different thread I must 
have changed messages. The reason this makes no sence is because its a reply to 
a different message. 

Sorry all. 

Danny


Sent from my iPhone

On 05/03/2013, at 11:00 AM, Danny Noonan  wrote:

> Sure is. Just swipe off the information. 1 finger swipe and VO should stop 
> speaking it. 
> 
> Danny. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 05/03/2013, at 7:18 AM, George Cham  wrote:
> 
>> A few weeks ago, I installed anti virus software that caused my Mac to keep 
>> rebooting. 
>> This software has now been removed, but its still showing up in menu extras, 
>> and is still asking me to activate it. 
>> Can I use VoiceOver in safe mode to get rid of this? 
>> Also I've gone into safe mode, but can't use the mouse to get passed the 
>> first screen. 
>> 
>> 
>> Typed with Fleksy
>> reply://george.c...@outlook.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> George,
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
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>> 
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>> .
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>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
>> 
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Re: Skype and msn problem

[michael]

Have you actually merged skype too msn.
I took a few times to get mine working.
I had to install the WE script to read other options for skype.
cheers Michael.

-Original Message- 
From: matthew Dyer

Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:40 AM
To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Skype and msn problem

Hi all,

I have a problem with skype not staying signed in to msn fpor mpore than a 
few seconds.  If I try to sign in to msn through skype it just signs me rite 
back out again.  Any ideas on why tthis might be happening?  Thanks.


Matthew


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unpredictable happen.


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system access mobile network

[William Lomas]

hi all it is a shame we can't fully use system access mobile network on 
a mac by now i'd have thought it be compatible, it is just a browser add on 
after all.
you can use the service but not transfer content etc to portable devices

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