Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

[christopher hallsworth]

Safari now allows you to navigate web pages using standalone arrow keys. Just 
turn QuickNav off and check it out.
> On 1 Feb 2015, at 02:45, Sean Murphy  wrote:
> 
> This is why I don’t like the VO approach to web pages. All other approaches 
> treat the page as a document. Thus you just need to use your arrow keys to 
> navigate and not interact with frames, tables, etc.
> 
> Simple pages in safari work fine. It becomes real difficult when you have a 
> complex pages.
> 
> Sean 
> On 1 Feb 2015, at 3:17 am, Travis Siegel  wrote:
> 
>> Oh, this is normal, it's likely a result of changes in webkit (the browser 
>> code most osx browsers use to render their content).
>> When I was using leopard, there were several web pages that rendered just 
>> fine.  Upon upgrading to snowleopard, many of these sites got modified to 
>> use tables instead.  This is not a good thing in my opinion, because it 
>> takes more interacting, less control over what gets read, and more 
>> navigational commands to get through the pages.  Needless to say, I wasn't 
>> happy.
>> Unfortunately, my imac isn't new enough to upgrade any further, so I'm stuck 
>> until I can obtain a newer mac.  Perhaps your issues are similarly related.
>> 
>> On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:
>> 
>>> Can you provide some more details so we can try to reproduce what you are 
>>> finding? For example, can you provide links to some websites where you are 
>>> experiencing these “collapsed things,” and maybe describe the differences 
>>> between how you used to be able to read the pages more easily and how it is 
>>> different now?
>>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Lovette Yewchan  wrote:
 One thing I am noticing is that there are a lot of collapsed things and I 
 cannot read the pages as easily as before.
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at the list's public Mail Archive:
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>>> 
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>>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredictable happen.
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>> visiting the list website at:
>>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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>> 
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>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
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>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
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Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

[Scott Erichsen]

Are you running Yosemite? You can now use your arrows on webpages.


-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy
Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2015 1:45 PM
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

This is why I don't like the VO approach to web pages. All other approaches
treat the page as a document. Thus you just need to use your arrow keys to
navigate and not interact with frames, tables, etc.

Simple pages in safari work fine. It becomes real difficult when you have a
complex pages.

Sean 
On 1 Feb 2015, at 3:17 am, Travis Siegel  wrote:

> Oh, this is normal, it's likely a result of changes in webkit (the browser
code most osx browsers use to render their content).
> When I was using leopard, there were several web pages that rendered just
fine.  Upon upgrading to snowleopard, many of these sites got modified to
use tables instead.  This is not a good thing in my opinion, because it
takes more interacting, less control over what gets read, and more
navigational commands to get through the pages.  Needless to say, I wasn't
happy.
> Unfortunately, my imac isn't new enough to upgrade any further, so I'm
stuck until I can obtain a newer mac.  Perhaps your issues are similarly
related.
> 
> On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:
> 
>> Can you provide some more details so we can try to reproduce what you are
finding? For example, can you provide links to some websites where you are
experiencing these "collapsed things," and maybe describe the differences
between how you used to be able to read the pages more easily and how it is
different now?
>> 
>> On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Lovette Yewchan  wrote:
>>> One thing I am noticing is that there are a lot of collapsed things and
I cannot read the pages as easily as before.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to
mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum
at the list's public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something
unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by
visiting the list website at:
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to
mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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at the list's public Mail Archive:
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> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something
unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by
visiting the list website at:
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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mac-access@mac-access.net

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As the Mac Acce

Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

[Sean Murphy]

This is why I don’t like the VO approach to web pages. All other approaches 
treat the page as a document. Thus you just need to use your arrow keys to 
navigate and not interact with frames, tables, etc.

Simple pages in safari work fine. It becomes real difficult when you have a 
complex pages.

Sean 
On 1 Feb 2015, at 3:17 am, Travis Siegel  wrote:

> Oh, this is normal, it's likely a result of changes in webkit (the browser 
> code most osx browsers use to render their content).
> When I was using leopard, there were several web pages that rendered just 
> fine.  Upon upgrading to snowleopard, many of these sites got modified to use 
> tables instead.  This is not a good thing in my opinion, because it takes 
> more interacting, less control over what gets read, and more navigational 
> commands to get through the pages.  Needless to say, I wasn't happy.
> Unfortunately, my imac isn't new enough to upgrade any further, so I'm stuck 
> until I can obtain a newer mac.  Perhaps your issues are similarly related.
> 
> On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:
> 
>> Can you provide some more details so we can try to reproduce what you are 
>> finding? For example, can you provide links to some websites where you are 
>> experiencing these “collapsed things,” and maybe describe the differences 
>> between how you used to be able to read the pages more easily and how it is 
>> different now?
>> 
>> On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Lovette Yewchan  wrote:
>>> One thing I am noticing is that there are a lot of collapsed things and I 
>>> cannot read the pages as easily as before.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> the list's public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> the list's public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the 
> Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
> However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
> neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

[gs]

Yes, I am seeing the same behavior under Yosemite with most sites.  This is 
especially frustrating because I wanted to use Chrome with Spotify since it 
doesn't seem to work with Safari.

On Jan 31, 2015, at 2:17 PM, Bryan Jones  wrote:

Thank you for providing an example website, David. My testing of the page you 
linked mirrored what I’ve been seeing on most other websites: The latest 
versions of both Chrome Stable and Chrome Canary work fine with VoiceOver under 
Mavericks 10.9.5, but those same versions of CHrome have a number of VoiceOver 
issues under all versions of Yosemite. This is one of several reasons why I 
have not yet upgraded my production Macs to Yosemite.

Systems tested:
2013 Macbook Air 11
2008 Macbook
OS X 10.9.5
OS X 10.10.2
Chrome Stable version 40.0.2214.94
Chrome Canary version 42.0.2292.0

-Bryan

On Jan 31, 2015, at 12:19 PM, David Griffith  wrote:
> I don't quite understand why people are not seeing the obvious problem with 
> the latest Google Chrome as it is pretty clear it has been badly broken since 
> the last update,  and is unusable with Voiceover now using default dom view.  
> .
> Basically for example if you go to www.bbc.co.uk/news you will now find it is 
> impossible to read any news content with Voiceover using dom view. You can 
> only read element like headings etc. by tedious pressing of the tab button 
> with no ability to read any actual news content.
> 
> If you turn Chrome Vox on then the news content does become readable with 
> that alternative screen reader but the previous accessibility which used to 
> be possible with Voiceover has been broken.

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
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Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
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Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

[Bryan Jones]

Thank you for providing an example website, David. My testing of the page you 
linked mirrored what I’ve been seeing on most other websites: The latest 
versions of both Chrome Stable and Chrome Canary work fine with VoiceOver under 
Mavericks 10.9.5, but those same versions of CHrome have a number of VoiceOver 
issues under all versions of Yosemite. This is one of several reasons why I 
have not yet upgraded my production Macs to Yosemite.

Systems tested:
2013 Macbook Air 11
2008 Macbook
OS X 10.9.5
OS X 10.10.2
Chrome Stable version 40.0.2214.94
Chrome Canary version 42.0.2292.0

-Bryan

On Jan 31, 2015, at 12:19 PM, David Griffith  wrote:
> I don't quite understand why people are not seeing the obvious problem with 
> the latest Google Chrome as it is pretty clear it has been badly broken since 
> the last update,  and is unusable with Voiceover now using default dom view.  
> .
> Basically for example if you go to www.bbc.co.uk/news you will now find it is 
> impossible to read any news content with Voiceover using dom view. You can 
> only read element like headings etc. by tedious pressing of the tab button 
> with no ability to read any actual news content.
> 
> If you turn Chrome Vox on then the news content does become readable with 
> that alternative screen reader but the previous accessibility which used to 
> be possible with Voiceover has been broken.

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
the list's public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the 
Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
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Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

[Chris Moore]

It uses chromium which is a fork of WebKit 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 Jan 2015, at 17:19, David Griffith  wrote:
> 
> Webkit as I understand it unlrunderlies Safari code and not Chrome, though I 
> would be happy to be corrected.
> I don't quite understand why people are not seeing the obvious problem with 
> the latest Google Chrome as it is pretty clear it has been badly broken since 
> the last update,  and is unusable with Voiceover now using default dom view.  
> .
> Basically for example if you go to www.bbc.co.uk/news you will now find it is 
> impossible to read any news content with Voiceover using dom view. You can 
> only read element like headings etc. by tedious pressing of the tab button 
> with no ability to read any actual news content.
> 
> If you turn Chrome Vox on then the news content does become readable with 
> that alternative screen reader but the previous accessibility which used to 
> be possible with Voiceover has been broken.
> 
> There is a sort of workaround if you are comfortable switching to Groups 
> rather than dom mode of web navigation. Mysteriously then some text  of web 
> pages does become accessible to Voiceover but groups mode is not the most 
> intuitive of interfaces.
> 
> Hopefully either accessibil...@apple.com and/or accessibil...@google.com can 
> sort something out which can help these difficulties.
> 
> It would be nice if for once Google was proactive in its accessibility 
> testing rather than reacting to the problems which so called "updates" create.
> 
> David Griffith
> 
>> On 31/01/2015 16:17, Travis Siegel wrote:
>> Oh, this is normal, it's likely a result of changes in webkit (the browser 
>> code most osx browsers use to render their content).
>> When I was using leopard, there were several web pages that rendered just 
>> fine.  Upon upgrading to snowleopard, many of these sites got modified to 
>> use tables instead.  This is not a good thing in my opinion, because it 
>> takes more interacting, less control over what gets read, and more 
>> navigational commands to get through the pages.  Needless to say, I wasn't 
>> happy.
>> Unfortunately, my imac isn't new enough to upgrade any further, so I'm stuck 
>> until I can obtain a newer mac.  Perhaps your issues are similarly related.
>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:
>>> 
>>> Can you provide some more details so we can try to reproduce what you are 
>>> finding? For example, can you provide links to some websites where you are 
>>> experiencing these “collapsed things,” and maybe describe the differences 
>>> between how you used to be able to read the pages more easily and how it is 
>>> different now?
>>> 
 On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Lovette Yewchan  wrote:
 One thing I am noticing is that there are a lot of collapsed things and I 
 cannot read the pages as easily as before.
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at the list's public Mail Archive:
>>> .
>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that 
>>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>>> unpredictable happen.
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>>> visiting the list website at:
>>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> the list's public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access foru

Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

[David Griffith]

Webkit as I understand it unlrunderlies Safari code and not Chrome, 
though I would be happy to be corrected.
I don't quite understand why people are not seeing the obvious problem 
with the latest Google Chrome as it is pretty clear it has been badly 
broken since the last update,  and is unusable with Voiceover now using 
default dom view.  .
Basically for example if you go to www.bbc.co.uk/news you will now find 
it is impossible to read any news content with Voiceover using dom view. 
You can only read element like headings etc. by tedious pressing of the 
tab button with no ability to read any actual news content.


If you turn Chrome Vox on then the news content does become readable 
with that alternative screen reader but the previous accessibility which 
used to be possible with Voiceover has been broken.


There is a sort of workaround if you are comfortable switching to Groups 
rather than dom mode of web navigation. Mysteriously then some text  of 
web pages does become accessible to Voiceover but groups mode is not the 
most intuitive of interfaces.


Hopefully either accessibil...@apple.com and/or accessibil...@google.com 
can sort something out which can help these difficulties.


It would be nice if for once Google was proactive in its accessibility 
testing rather than reacting to the problems which so called "updates" 
create.


David Griffith

On 31/01/2015 16:17, Travis Siegel wrote:

Oh, this is normal, it's likely a result of changes in webkit (the browser code 
most osx browsers use to render their content).
When I was using leopard, there were several web pages that rendered just fine. 
 Upon upgrading to snowleopard, many of these sites got modified to use tables 
instead.  This is not a good thing in my opinion, because it takes more 
interacting, less control over what gets read, and more navigational commands 
to get through the pages.  Needless to say, I wasn't happy.
Unfortunately, my imac isn't new enough to upgrade any further, so I'm stuck 
until I can obtain a newer mac.  Perhaps your issues are similarly related.

On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:


Can you provide some more details so we can try to reproduce what you are 
finding? For example, can you provide links to some websites where you are 
experiencing these “collapsed things,” and maybe describe the differences 
between how you used to be able to read the pages more easily and how it is 
different now?

On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Lovette Yewchan  wrote:

One thing I am noticing is that there are a lot of collapsed things and I 
cannot read the pages as easily as before.

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
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Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
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<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
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.
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As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the 
Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
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<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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However, this should in no way replace your 

Re: [Mac-access]: Google Chrome

[Travis Siegel]

Oh, this is normal, it's likely a result of changes in webkit (the browser code 
most osx browsers use to render their content).
When I was using leopard, there were several web pages that rendered just fine. 
 Upon upgrading to snowleopard, many of these sites got modified to use tables 
instead.  This is not a good thing in my opinion, because it takes more 
interacting, less control over what gets read, and more navigational commands 
to get through the pages.  Needless to say, I wasn't happy.
Unfortunately, my imac isn't new enough to upgrade any further, so I'm stuck 
until I can obtain a newer mac.  Perhaps your issues are similarly related.

On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Can you provide some more details so we can try to reproduce what you are 
> finding? For example, can you provide links to some websites where you are 
> experiencing these “collapsed things,” and maybe describe the differences 
> between how you used to be able to read the pages more easily and how it is 
> different now?
> 
> On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Lovette Yewchan  wrote:
>> One thing I am noticing is that there are a lot of collapsed things and I 
>> cannot read the pages as easily as before.
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> the list's public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the 
> Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
> However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
> neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
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.
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As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the 
Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
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