Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student

[Bryan Jones]

Hello David,

Best of luck in your PhD pursuit. The only advice I can offer regarding working 
with tables is to suggest you consider taking a lesson or a series of lessons 
from Anne & Archie Robertson via Skype. They've developed some good procedures 
for dealing with the accessibility quirks and limitations in the various iWork 
applications and though I wasn't required to create any documents with tables 
this semester, I was glad to have had the Pages lessons under my belt.

If you're interested, you can find out more at Anne & Archie's website, 
www.cecimac.org. The site is in French by default, but if you VO right a few 
times you'll find a link to the English section of the site, which includes 
contact info and an overview of the lessons they offer.

Cheers, and best of luck,
Bryan

On Dec 18, 2011, at 5:59 AM, David Griffith wrote:
> My main problem which I need to over come is that I have to deal with  
> plethora of word documents with tables. So far I have tried Text Edit, Bean, 
> Nius Writer Pro and pages. The program which seemed to cope best was the free 
> bean program but 
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Re: Keynote 5.1.1 Accessibility question [Was: Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student]

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

Hi Bryan,

To be honest I've noticed no discernible difference(s).  however, I simply 
opened a powerpoint presentation, went into slideshow mode and then discovered 
that it was still lousy.

Sory I can't be more possitive,

Dónal
On 19 Dec 2011, at 02:59, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Hello Donal,
> 
> Thank you for your feedback. I'm interested in your comments regarding the 
> accessibility limitations in Keynote. I'm not yet a heavy Keynote User, but I 
> did notice that the recent 5.1.1 update included a mention of "improved 
> accessibility" and am wondering if the slide show or any other access issues 
> were addressed in this update. Apple, as usual, seems to offer no details 
> regarding the improvements, so I'm hoping someone familiar with the product 
> and it's shortcomings might be able to opine on this.
> 
> Cheers,
> Bryan
> 
> On Dec 18, 2011, at 10:26 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote:
>> One aspect where OSX and VO are truly abysmal is in the area of making 
>> presentations.  Anne Robertson has played with this extensively and has come 
>> up with several ingenious workarounds.  However, it seems criminal that two 
>> years after release, VO still cannot access a presentation when the thing is 
>> being played in slideshow mode.  What do Apple think blind people want to do 
>> with Keynote, create presentations and have someone else make them?
> 
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Dónal Fitzpatrick
dfitz...@computing.dcu.ie



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Keynote 5.1.1 Accessibility question [Was: Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student]

[Bryan Jones]

Hello Donal,

Thank you for your feedback. I'm interested in your comments regarding the 
accessibility limitations in Keynote. I'm not yet a heavy Keynote User, but I 
did notice that the recent 5.1.1 update included a mention of "improved 
accessibility" and am wondering if the slide show or any other access issues 
were addressed in this update. Apple, as usual, seems to offer no details 
regarding the improvements, so I'm hoping someone familiar with the product and 
it's shortcomings might be able to opine on this.

Cheers,
Bryan

On Dec 18, 2011, at 10:26 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote:
> One aspect where OSX and VO are truly abysmal is in the area of making 
> presentations.  Anne Robertson has played with this extensively and has come 
> up with several ingenious workarounds.  However, it seems criminal that two 
> years after release, VO still cannot access a presentation when the thing is 
> being played in slideshow mode.  What do Apple think blind people want to do 
> with Keynote, create presentations and have someone else make them?

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Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi,

I tend to use LaTeX as well. I'm obtaining a Computer Science Degree, of which 
UML (Unified Modeling Language) plays a massive role throughout all six 
semesters. Also, I was kind of forced into LaTeX, but it's actually really 
useful when you learn how. It also works for a lot of situations, such as UML 
since you have plenty of tools which plug into applications such as TeXShop, 
the LaTeX distribution for OS X.

I haven't yet managed to use the edition, and wonder how useful it is going to 
be during teamwork, though I suspect it won't be as useful as it seems right 
now. I have a lot of doubts as to the style of the plugin. LaTeX is incredibly 
powerful, though, plugins aside. Even with the UML plugin, you can still draw 
diagrams. You just can't view those made by others, which is practically 
essential.

Regards,
Nicolai
On Dec 18, 2011, at 5:20 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote:

> Thanks very much indeed Benjamin, I tried one or two of these frameworks 
> under SL years ago but with no joy.  I'll certainly look at this one thanks 
> for passing it on.
> On 18 Dec 2011, at 16:06, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick
>>  wrote:
>>> My preferred way to prepare presentations (and in fact most documents) is 
>>> LaTex; and I know that James Austen also uses this with considerable 
>>> success.  Basically for those not familiar with it, you use a markup like 
>>> HTML (relax people it's not the same just similar in idea) to prepare your 
>>> document.
>> 
>> FWIW you might try making slides in HTML and using a browser (perhaps
>> in full-screen mode) to present. There are various frameworks for
>> doing this; here's one:
>> 
>> http://code.google.com/p/html5slides/
>> 
>> --
>> Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
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>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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> 
> Dónal Fitzpatrick
> dfitz...@computing.dcu.ie
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

Thanks very much indeed Benjamin, I tried one or two of these frameworks under 
SL years ago but with no joy.  I'll certainly look at this one thanks for 
passing it on.
On 18 Dec 2011, at 16:06, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick
>  wrote:
>> My preferred way to prepare presentations (and in fact most documents) is 
>> LaTex; and I know that James Austen also uses this with considerable 
>> success.  Basically for those not familiar with it, you use a markup like 
>> HTML (relax people it's not the same just similar in idea) to prepare your 
>> document.
> 
> FWIW you might try making slides in HTML and using a browser (perhaps
> in full-screen mode) to present. There are various frameworks for
> doing this; here's one:
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/html5slides/
> 
> --
> Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
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> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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> 
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> 

Dónal Fitzpatrick
dfitz...@computing.dcu.ie



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Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student

[Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis]

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick
 wrote:
> My preferred way to prepare presentations (and in fact most documents) is 
> LaTex; and I know that James Austen also uses this with considerable success. 
>  Basically for those not familiar with it, you use a markup like HTML (relax 
> people it's not the same just similar in idea) to prepare your document.

FWIW you might try making slides in HTML and using a browser (perhaps
in full-screen mode) to present. There are various frameworks for
doing this; here's one:

http://code.google.com/p/html5slides/

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
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Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

Bryan,

This is a superb commentary.  I think this should appear somewhere on 
Mac-Access (mods?) and form the basis of a "wiki" style resource for students.

I'll now give you this from the other side of the fence.  As some may know, I'm 
a lecturer (assistant prof. to use US/Canadian Parlance) so I have similar 
issues in terms of needing to access textbooks etc.

Some will disagree with this, but (particularly if in the US) Bookshare.org has 
a wealth of information which I've found useful.  It should be noted that many 
of their computer-science e-texts are available to international subscribers, 
however the issues surrounding electronic dissemination of materials 
highlighted by Bryan limit what they can provide.  There are, erm, ways around 
this but I have *no* intention of posting them here or elsewhere so don't ask.

One aspect where OSX and VO are truly abysmal is in the area of making 
presentations.  Anne Robertson has played with this extensively and has come up 
with several ingenious workarounds.  However, it seems criminal that two years 
after release, VO still cannot access a presentation when the thing is being 
played in slideshow mode.  What do Apple think blind people want to do with 
Keynote, create presentations and have someone else make them?

My preferred way to prepare presentations (and in fact most documents) is 
LaTex; and I know that James Austen also uses this with considerable success.  
Basically for those not familiar with it, you use a markup like HTML (relax 
people it's not the same just similar in idea) to prepare your document.  So if 
I want to create a slide I'll dO:

\begin{slide}
% content
\end{slide}

You then generate a PDF from this, and use Skim to present.  In another 
blinding example of Apple's genius, Preview is horrible in slideshow mode.  And 
yes before the usual suspects (apple fanboys and girls for whom the corporation 
can do no wrong) jump on the band waggon, I have reported this several times.

For development work I use xcode for some things such as correcting C++ etc.  
But for other things I just use a text editor and command line tools.  

this mail has gone on longer than I thought so I'll leave it there.

Cheers

Dónal
On 18 Dec 2011, at 05:08, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone on this list who shared your 
> school experiences with me and offered good advice on tools and techniques. 
> Now that my semester is over, I want to give back some information about some 
> of those tools and techniques  in hopes somebody else might find them useful. 
> I just completed my first college semester in over 20 years, my first as a 
> blind person, and I'm proud to say I did very well in both of my classes. 
> I've now enrolled as a full time student for the Spring 2012 semester with an 
> estimated graduation date of June, 2013, only 29 years after I took my first 
> college course. .
> 
> I was able to perform all necessary computer-related functions using my 
> Macbook Air and iPhone 4. Half way through the semester I installed Windows 7 
> in a FUsion VM just in case, but never even got around to installing NVDA 
> because I did not encounter any accessibility roadblocks that couldn't be 
> handled on my MBA or iPhone. Here is my "Top 10" list of tools and techniques 
> I used this semester.
> 
> 1. Pages on the Mac. This past SUmmer I took a series of Pages lessons via 
> Skype with Anne and Archie Robertson. (For those who are new to the list, 
> Anne is an assistant moderator here.) The lessons were informative and 
> enjoyable, as Anne & Archie are a great team with a wealth of experience 
> working with Apple products and accessibility tools and techniques. During 
> the semester I wrote several dozen essays, most of them in Pages, and never 
> once had a problem creating a document that met the requirements of my 
> professors. My university is standardized almost exclusively on Windows, MS 
> Office, and Outlook, yet I never had a problem opening any Office documents 
> in Preview, TextEdit or Pages and was easily able to use Outlook Web Access 
> via Safari on my Macbook Air to send & receive emails and attachments.
> 
> 2. The "ABBYY FineReader Express" Mac App. I used ABBYY extensively this 
> semester. One of my textbooks was only available in print, but I was able to 
> scan important chunks of the book using the flatbed scanner on my HP 
> PhotoSmart C6100 MFP attached via USB to my Macbook Air. I scanned using 
> Vuescan and  then let ABBYY do the OCR into an RTF file. I also used ABYY to 
> OCR graphic PDF files such as those output from OSX's "save to PDF" print 
> function as noted below in the section where I talk about textbooks. And of 
> course, I received a number of incorrectly created PDF files for such things 
> as class syllabi and tuition invoices, all of which ABBYY handled quite 
> nicely.
> 
> 3. The "Flashcards++" IOS App. I made extensive use of the excellent and 
> ful

Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

Bryan,

This is a superb commentary.  I think this should appear somewhere on 
Mac-Access (mods?) and form the basis of a "wiki" style resource for students.

I'll now give you this from the other side of the fence.  As some may know, I'm 
a lecturer (assistant prof. to use US/Canadian Parlance) so I have similar 
issues in terms of needing to access textbooks etc.

Some will disagree with this, but (particularly if in the US) Bookshare.org has 
a wealth of information which I've found useful.  It should be noted that many 
of their computer-science e-texts are available to international subscribers, 
however the issues surrounding electronic dissemination of materials 
highlighted by Bryan limit what they can provide.  There are, erm, ways around 
this but I have *no* intention of posting them here or elsewhere so don't ask.

One aspect where OSX and VO are truly abysmal is in the area of making 
presentations.  Anne Robertson has played with this extensively and has come up 
with several ingenious workarounds.  However, it seems criminal that two years 
after release, VO still cannot access a presentation when the thing is being 
played in slideshow mode.  What do Apple think blind people want to do with 
Keynote, create presentations and have someone else make them?

My preferred way to prepare presentations (and in fact most documents) is 
LaTex; and I know that James Austen also uses this with considerable success.  
Basically for those not familiar with it, you use a markup like HTML (relax 
people it's not the same just similar in idea) to prepare your document.  So if 
I want to create a slide I'll dO:

\begin{slide}
% content
\end{slide}

You then generate a PDF from this, and use Skim to present.  In another 
blinding example of Apple's genius, Preview is horrible in slideshow mode.  And 
yes before the usual suspects (apple fanboys and girls for whom the corporation 
can do no wrong) jump on the band waggon, I have reported this several times.

For development work I use xcode for some things such as correcting C++ etc.  
But for other things I just use a text editor and command line tools.  

this mail has gone on longer than I thought so I'll leave it there.

Cheers

Dónal
On 18 Dec 2011, at 05:08, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone on this list who shared your 
> school experiences with me and offered good advice on tools and techniques. 
> Now that my semester is over, I want to give back some information about some 
> of those tools and techniques  in hopes somebody else might find them useful. 
> I just completed my first college semester in over 20 years, my first as a 
> blind person, and I'm proud to say I did very well in both of my classes. 
> I've now enrolled as a full time student for the Spring 2012 semester with an 
> estimated graduation date of June, 2013, only 29 years after I took my first 
> college course. .
> 
> I was able to perform all necessary computer-related functions using my 
> Macbook Air and iPhone 4. Half way through the semester I installed Windows 7 
> in a FUsion VM just in case, but never even got around to installing NVDA 
> because I did not encounter any accessibility roadblocks that couldn't be 
> handled on my MBA or iPhone. Here is my "Top 10" list of tools and techniques 
> I used this semester.
> 
> 1. Pages on the Mac. This past SUmmer I took a series of Pages lessons via 
> Skype with Anne and Archie Robertson. (For those who are new to the list, 
> Anne is an assistant moderator here.) The lessons were informative and 
> enjoyable, as Anne & Archie are a great team with a wealth of experience 
> working with Apple products and accessibility tools and techniques. During 
> the semester I wrote several dozen essays, most of them in Pages, and never 
> once had a problem creating a document that met the requirements of my 
> professors. My university is standardized almost exclusively on Windows, MS 
> Office, and Outlook, yet I never had a problem opening any Office documents 
> in Preview, TextEdit or Pages and was easily able to use Outlook Web Access 
> via Safari on my Macbook Air to send & receive emails and attachments.
> 
> 2. The "ABBYY FineReader Express" Mac App. I used ABBYY extensively this 
> semester. One of my textbooks was only available in print, but I was able to 
> scan important chunks of the book using the flatbed scanner on my HP 
> PhotoSmart C6100 MFP attached via USB to my Macbook Air. I scanned using 
> Vuescan and  then let ABBYY do the OCR into an RTF file. I also used ABYY to 
> OCR graphic PDF files such as those output from OSX's "save to PDF" print 
> function as noted below in the section where I talk about textbooks. And of 
> course, I received a number of incorrectly created PDF files for such things 
> as class syllabi and tuition invoices, all of which ABBYY handled quite 
> nicely.
> 
> 3. The "Flashcards++" IOS App. I made extensive use of the excellent and 
> ful

Re: Top Ten list of tools and techniques I used to successfully complete my first college semester as a blind student

[David Griffith]

Congratulations and an extremely interesting read. As of last Thursday I m 
recommencing my PhD after 18 months break. When i suspended due to ill health I 
was an exclusive  Windows user, now I have switch to  the Mac. There are  are 
areas of your experience that I have not considered and  I look forward to your 
write up  of bento. I had not considered this as a learning aid and am 
intrigued as to how you used it.

My main problem which I need to over come is that I have to deal with  plethora 
of word documents with tables. So far I have tried Text Edit, Bean, Nius Writer 
Pro and pages. The program which seemed to cope best was the free bean program 
but was still difficult so I have ended up using Fusion and Microsoft Word to 
cope with Tables. I was hoping that Nisus Writer pro would provide the answer 
as this has received good write ups but doe snot appear to have cracked this 
nut yet.

In terms of scanning I would give a cautious recommendation for the EyePal 
Scanner and software. The scanning is lightning fast and the recognition is 
good. You can scan a 300 page book in about an hour. The practical drawback of 
the scanner is that it freezes every time that you scan a blank page, so if 
thou try to scan a letter and you have put the wrong side under the camera then 
bye bye application. The software is self voicing and you have to turn 
Voiceover off to use it as it is a port of the Windows software under the  X11 
utility. Very nearly a fantastic product but extremely expensive.


David GriffithDavid Griffith
d.griff...@btinternet.com



On 18 Dec 2011, at 05:08, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone on this list who shared your 
> school experiences with me and offered good advice on tools and techniques. 
> Now that my semester is over, I want to give back some information about some 
> of those tools and techniques  in hopes somebody else might find them useful. 
> I just completed my first college semester in over 20 years, my first as a 
> blind person, and I'm proud to say I did very well in both of my classes. 
> I've now enrolled as a full time student for the Spring 2012 semester with an 
> estimated graduation date of June, 2013, only 29 years after I took my first 
> college course. .
> 
> I was able to perform all necessary computer-related functions using my 
> Macbook Air and iPhone 4. Half way through the semester I installed Windows 7 
> in a FUsion VM just in case, but never even got around to installing NVDA 
> because I did not encounter any accessibility roadblocks that couldn't be 
> handled on my MBA or iPhone. Here is my "Top 10" list of tools and techniques 
> I used this semester.
> 
> 1. Pages on the Mac. This past SUmmer I took a series of Pages lessons via 
> Skype with Anne and Archie Robertson. (For those who are new to the list, 
> Anne is an assistant moderator here.) The lessons were informative and 
> enjoyable, as Anne & Archie are a great team with a wealth of experience 
> working with Apple products and accessibility tools and techniques. During 
> the semester I wrote several dozen essays, most of them in Pages, and never 
> once had a problem creating a document that met the requirements of my 
> professors. My university is standardized almost exclusively on Windows, MS 
> Office, and Outlook, yet I never had a problem opening any Office documents 
> in Preview, TextEdit or Pages and was easily able to use Outlook Web Access 
> via Safari on my Macbook Air to send & receive emails and attachments.
> 
> 2. The "ABBYY FineReader Express" Mac App. I used ABBYY extensively this 
> semester. One of my textbooks was only available in print, but I was able to 
> scan important chunks of the book using the flatbed scanner on my HP 
> PhotoSmart C6100 MFP attached via USB to my Macbook Air. I scanned using 
> Vuescan and  then let ABBYY do the OCR into an RTF file. I also used ABYY to 
> OCR graphic PDF files such as those output from OSX's "save to PDF" print 
> function as noted below in the section where I talk about textbooks. And of 
> course, I received a number of incorrectly created PDF files for such things 
> as class syllabi and tuition invoices, all of which ABBYY handled quite 
> nicely.
> 
> 3. The "Flashcards++" IOS App. I made extensive use of the excellent and 
> fully VO-accessible IOS App named "Flashcards++." I posted a review of the 
> app on applevis if you're interested, but I'll just add here that this app 
> blows me away every time I use it. The simplicity of the interface hides a 
> tremendous wealth of options. There are numerous ways to import cards you've 
> created, such as via a simple CSV created in TextEdit, or via the major 
> flashcard sites such as quizlet.com. You can also create the cards manually 
> right on the device and can edit any of the cards you've imported or created. 
> Once you've created your cards, you have access to a vast number of ways to 
> display the cards, a