Re: navigating to a longdesc link in an image

[Sarah Alawami]

a what? That's not a term I know too well. Can you give a description of what 
you mean and possibly an example?

Thanks.

Sarah Alawami

If you  need an edit  done on a small project go to 
http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. 
If you need to contact me my info is below.
MSN and AIM: marri...@gmail.com
website: http://music.marrie.org
Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast
youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125

On Dec 7, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Carolyn Wagner wrote:

> How do you access a longdesc link in an image using voiceover?
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Re: navigating to a longdesc link in an image

[Carolyn Wagner]

Some images on the web provide an alternative text version that should describe 
the image. In certain cases a description of more than 30 words is necessary to 
describe the image so a longdesc attribute is added to the image tag. Like this 
 The longdesc 
is a link to page that has a longer detailed description of the image.

I was wondering if there is a particular command or setting to link to the 
longdesc from VoiceOver. Right now, VO only reads the alt text "a picture of 
me". But doesn't allow for me to link to the fulldesc.html page. 


On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:

> a what? That's not a term I know too well. Can you give a description of what 
> you mean and possibly an example?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Sarah Alawami
> 
> If you  need an edit  done on a small project go to 
> http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. 
> If you need to contact me my info is below.
> MSN and AIM: marri...@gmail.com
> website: http://music.marrie.org
> Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast
> youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125
> 
> On Dec 7, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Carolyn Wagner wrote:
> 
>> How do you access a longdesc link in an image using voiceover?
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
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>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
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>> 
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> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
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Re: navigating to a longdesc link in an image

[Sarah Alawami]

Ah I dunno and I don't  know enough html code to help you there lol! HOpe 
someone can give us a refresher cource in that as I now do everything websight 
related   in a CMS.

Take care.
On Dec 7, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Carolyn Wagner wrote:

> Some images on the web provide an alternative text version that should 
> describe the image. In certain cases a description of more than 30 words is 
> necessary to describe the image so a longdesc attribute is added to the image 
> tag. Like this  longdesc="fulldesc.html"> The longdesc is a link to page that has a longer 
> detailed description of the image.
> 
> I was wondering if there is a particular command or setting to link to the 
> longdesc from VoiceOver. Right now, VO only reads the alt text "a picture of 
> me". But doesn't allow for me to link to the fulldesc.html page. 
> 
> 
> On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> a what? That's not a term I know too well. Can you give a description of 
>> what you mean and possibly an example?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Sarah Alawami
>> 
>> If you  need an edit  done on a small project go to 
>> http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. 
>> If you need to contact me my info is below.
>> MSN and AIM: marri...@gmail.com
>> website: http://music.marrie.org
>> Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast
>> youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125
>> 
>> On Dec 7, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Carolyn Wagner wrote:
>> 
>>> How do you access a longdesc link in an image using voiceover?
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> 
>>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>>> .
>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>> and worm-free!
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
>>> the list website at:
>>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
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> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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Re: navigating to a longdesc link in an image

[Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Carolyn Wagner  wrote:
> Some images on the web provide an alternative text version that should 
> describe the image. In certain cases a description of more than 30 words is 
> necessary to describe the image so a longdesc attribute is added to the image 
> tag. Like this  longdesc="fulldesc.html"> The longdesc is a link to page that has a longer 
> detailed description of the image.
>
> I was wondering if there is a particular command or setting to link to the 
> longdesc from VoiceOver. Right now, VO only reads the alt text "a picture of 
> me". But doesn't allow for me to link to the fulldesc.html page.

There's no VoiceOver command for accessing "longdesc", and no Safari
or Chrome user interface for "longdesc". So to access "longdesc" you'd
need some sort of add-on or script. (I'm not aware of any that have
been written for these programs.)

I'm a member of a group working on the next version of HTML. Currently
(and controversially), the current draft specification recommends
authors do not use "longdesc". So I'm interested in use of "longdesc"
in the wild. Would you be able to provide the address of any webpages
that use a "longdesc" you'd like to access?

If you are the author of the page, would you consider other means of
providing the information such as:

* Providing a visible link to the long description after the image.
* Including a long description on the same page as the image. This
could be declaratively associated with the image using the
"aria-describedby" attribute. When JS is available, you could hide the
description by default and provide a button that shows it when
pressed.

An advantage of these approaches is that the long description is
available to everyone who might have trouble using the image using
widely implemented features. A disadvantage is that the availability
of the long description might not be advertised to screen reader users
who jump from image to image on the page. Also, obviously, these
approaches have an impact on the visual design of the page.

Also, what guidance are you following that suggests "30 words" is the
maximum suitable length for an "alt" attribute? As an author, if you
wouldn't want to add a visible long description or visible link to the
long description, would you consider providing the whole long
description in the "alt" attribute? This is what the current HTML
draft spec suggests.

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: navigating to a longdesc link in an image

[Carolyn Wagner]

Thanks for your reply. I cannot share the url of the page I am working with, 
but I can tell you that a link was added under the image linking to a long 
description page, in addition to the longdesc attribute in the image tag. 

I am curious how the aria-describedby attribute would be used. Would it be 
included in the image tag, or a surrounding div tag? Do you have any example 
you can point me to? Or can you provide an example of it used in source code? 

On Dec 8, 2011, at 2:25 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Carolyn Wagner  wrote:
>> Some images on the web provide an alternative text version that should 
>> describe the image. In certain cases a description of more than 30 words is 
>> necessary to describe the image so a longdesc attribute is added to the 
>> image tag. Like this > longdesc="fulldesc.html"> The longdesc is a link to page that has a longer 
>> detailed description of the image.
>> 
>> I was wondering if there is a particular command or setting to link to the 
>> longdesc from VoiceOver. Right now, VO only reads the alt text "a picture of 
>> me". But doesn't allow for me to link to the fulldesc.html page.
> 
> There's no VoiceOver command for accessing "longdesc", and no Safari
> or Chrome user interface for "longdesc". So to access "longdesc" you'd
> need some sort of add-on or script. (I'm not aware of any that have
> been written for these programs.)
> 
> I'm a member of a group working on the next version of HTML. Currently
> (and controversially), the current draft specification recommends
> authors do not use "longdesc". So I'm interested in use of "longdesc"
> in the wild. Would you be able to provide the address of any webpages
> that use a "longdesc" you'd like to access?
> 
> If you are the author of the page, would you consider other means of
> providing the information such as:
> 
>* Providing a visible link to the long description after the image.
>* Including a long description on the same page as the image. This
> could be declaratively associated with the image using the
> "aria-describedby" attribute. When JS is available, you could hide the
> description by default and provide a button that shows it when
> pressed.
> 
> An advantage of these approaches is that the long description is
> available to everyone who might have trouble using the image using
> widely implemented features. A disadvantage is that the availability
> of the long description might not be advertised to screen reader users
> who jump from image to image on the page. Also, obviously, these
> approaches have an impact on the visual design of the page.
> 
> Also, what guidance are you following that suggests "30 words" is the
> maximum suitable length for an "alt" attribute? As an author, if you
> wouldn't want to add a visible long description or visible link to the
> long description, would you consider providing the whole long
> description in the "alt" attribute? This is what the current HTML
> draft spec suggests.
> 
> --
> Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free!
> 
> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
> the list website at:
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: navigating to a longdesc link in an image

[Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Carolyn Wagner  wrote:
> I cannot share the url of the page I am working with, but I can tell you that 
> a link was added under the image linking to a long description page, in 
> addition to the longdesc attribute in the image tag.

Interesting, thanks.

> I am curious how the aria-describedby attribute would be used. Would it be 
> included in the image tag, or a surrounding div tag? Do you have any example 
> you can point me to? Or can you provide an example of it used in source code?

In it's simplest form:

   
   

Note:

   * Unlike with longdesc, typical AT setups will read the element
referenced by aria-describedby automatically when the image is
encountered. This is not always agreed to be an advantage.
   * The element referenced by aria-describedby can be anywhere on the
same page.
   * You can reference elements in different parts of the page using a
space separated list (#part1 #part2), and AT will join the text
together.
   * This technique is not suitable for text alternatives consisting
of structural markup like tables since only the text will be put in
the accessibility tree, not the structure.
   * You can add JS to hide or show the element when a button is
pushed (perhaps an "info" icon) to minimize visual impact. Even when
the element is hidden with CSS, AT should still read the content when
the image is encountered. This also has the advantage of hiding it
from the normal reading flow which will stop typical AT setups from
reading it again. In the future you should be able to use the HTML5
 element instead of JS.

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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