repost error - sorry

[Darren]

Sorry the server is sending me ruturned mail for each email I send to 
this list, I didn't check the list before resending this one. :(



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Re: Network problems

[Darren]

MUGWump wrote:

>>Winipcfg makes this easy enough without the temptation to make
>>changes. :)
>>
>>
>
>Being relatively uninformed about networks, I thought it best to
>point him to where all of the protocols in use would be documented.
>I'm not sure if I've even used Winipcfg, but my guess from the name
>is that it only documents the setup of TCP/IP, and some other
>protocol may need to be set up to get into the network, even if the
>intention is only to use TCP/IP. But that's just a wild
>guess--showing off my lack of network knowledge.
>
Amazing how many people dont know to right click on"my computer"
"network nieghborhood" or "internet explorer" to bring up the system,
network and internet control panels. If your like me you tend to change
things if these are open so winipcfg takes away the temptation. The
Network CP doesn't tell you what ip address has been assigned to that
machine making it less than useful when for checking compared to
winipcfg. As we are talking macs and internet, tpc is what would be used
if its going through a pc.
Winipcfg is useful for lease renewal and for sorting multiple network
cards, no real use for dial up users expect for finding your machines
current address
>
>
>
>>>I know there's a Mac software package called DAVE which enables one
>>>to use a Mac to connect to Windows-based networks, but I don't know
>>>how far back in Macs and OS's it supports, even the old versions of
>>>DAVE. When you say "Quadra", I'm presuming a 68K machine--am I
>>>right? And what version of the Mac OS is it running? It'd at least
>>>be worthwhile looking into. DAVE is produced by Thursby Software; a
>>>Google search should turn 'em up easily enough.
>>>
>>>
>>Gamba's page is a good place to look for dave which is useful for
>>file sharing but doesn't do much for web browsing, since there is a
>>Netgear router thrown into the mix would it not be better to config
>>the macs to suit the router or buy a hub and have the macs on a
>>seperate plug from the router rather than fart around with ICS?
>>
>>
>My head's spinning at this point; you're definitely out of my league.
>Plus, since we're both talking about a network neither of us directly
>knows, I think some more info from Terry's needed before I can
>conjecture any further.
>
Terry gave us info about the router, Asante ethernet cards may play a
roll in this so may the type of dhcp the router uses. Macs where rather
hard to configure with some servers before open transport 2.0x (os8.5)as
there is no machine name in the same way as its handled on the pc  which
means a static address needed to be used with a name known to the server
in the filesharing control panel to connect where pc's with dhcp set had
no problem. I don't know if this could cause problems with a router, I
do know it was the only way I could use the cable modem with OS8.1.
We do need more info from Terry to really know where the trouble might
be, we can still throw around ideas on this list which hopefully dont
need to use ICS and make use of the router.




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Re: Network problems

[Darren]

MUGWump wrote:

Winipcfg makes this easy enough without the temptation to make
changes. :)
   

Being relatively uninformed about networks, I thought it best to 
point him to where all of the protocols in use would be documented. 
I'm not sure if I've even used Winipcfg, but my guess from the name 
is that it only documents the setup of TCP/IP, and some other 
protocol may need to be set up to get into the network, even if the 
intention is only to use TCP/IP. But that's just a wild 
guess--showing off my lack of network knowledge.

Amazing how many people dont know to right click on"my computer"  
"network nieghborhood" or "internet explorer" to bring up the system, 
network and internet control panels. If your like me you tend to change 
things if these are open so winipcfg takes away the temptation. The 
Network CP doesn't tell you what ip address has been assigned to that 
machine making it less than useful when for checking compared to 
winipcfg. As we are talking macs and internet, tpc is what would be used 
if its going through a pc.
Winipcfg is useful for lease renewal and for sorting multiple network 
cards, no real use for dial up users expect for finding your machines 
current address

 

I know there's a Mac software package called DAVE which enables one
to use a Mac to connect to Windows-based networks, but I don't know
how far back in Macs and OS's it supports, even the old versions of
DAVE. When you say "Quadra", I'm presuming a 68K machine--am I
right? And what version of the Mac OS is it running? It'd at least
be worthwhile looking into. DAVE is produced by Thursby Software; a
Google search should turn 'em up easily enough. 
 

Gamba's page is a good place to look for dave which is useful for
file sharing but doesn't do much for web browsing, since there is a
Netgear router thrown into the mix would it not be better to config
the macs to suit the router or buy a hub and have the macs on a
seperate plug from the router rather than fart around with ICS?
   

My head's spinning at this point; you're definitely out of my league. 
Plus, since we're both talking about a network neither of us directly 
knows, I think some more info from Terry's needed before I can 
conjecture any further.

Terry gave us info about the router, Asante ethernet cards may play a 
roll in this so may the type of dhcp the router uses. Macs where rather 
hard to configure with some servers before open transport 2.0x (os8.5)as 
there is no machine name in the same way as its handled on the pc  which 
means a static address needed to be used with a name known to the server 
in the filesharing control panel to connect where pc's with dhcp set had 
no problem. I don't know if this could cause problems with a router, I 
do know it was the only way I could use the cable modem with OS8.1.

We do need more info from Terry to really know where the trouble might 
be, we can still throw around ideas on this list which hopefully dont 
need to use ICS and make use of the router.



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Re: Network problems

[MUGWump]

> Date:  Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:02:58 +1000
> From:  Darren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> MUGWump wrote:
>
> Winipcfg makes this easy enough without the temptation to make
> changes. :)

Being relatively uninformed about networks, I thought it best to 
point him to where all of the protocols in use would be documented. 
I'm not sure if I've even used Winipcfg, but my guess from the name 
is that it only documents the setup of TCP/IP, and some other 
protocol may need to be set up to get into the network, even if the 
intention is only to use TCP/IP. But that's just a wild 
guess--showing off my lack of network knowledge.

> >I know there's a Mac software package called DAVE which enables one
> >to use a Mac to connect to Windows-based networks, but I don't know
> >how far back in Macs and OS's it supports, even the old versions of
> >DAVE. When you say "Quadra", I'm presuming a 68K machine--am I
> >right? And what version of the Mac OS is it running? It'd at least
> >be worthwhile looking into. DAVE is produced by Thursby Software; a
> >Google search should turn 'em up easily enough. 
> 
> Gamba's page is a good place to look for dave which is useful for
> file sharing but doesn't do much for web browsing, since there is a
> Netgear router thrown into the mix would it not be better to config
> the macs to suit the router or buy a hub and have the macs on a
> seperate plug from the router rather than fart around with ICS?

My head's spinning at this point; you're definitely out of my league. 
Plus, since we're both talking about a network neither of us directly 
knows, I think some more info from Terry's needed before I can 
conjecture any further.

Later on,
Mike the MUGWump


 
> Well I'm sick of talking to myself, cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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===
I'm a MUGWump: My "MUG" is on the Mac side of the fence (since mid-2002), and 
my "Wump" is on the PC side (since 1989). I've been on the trailing edge of 
computer technology since 1987 and love it! [P.S.] Due to limitations on this 
account, please send binaries to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and a confirmation note here. 

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Re: Network problems

[Darren]

MUGWump wrote:

Where's Mugwump??? :)
   

MUGWump's here; I'm honored to have been missed. I've been looking at 
this thread and mostly trying to learn, as networking's not my forte. 
But after I saw your message, I put my thinking cap on (as I went 
back to bed) and may have some ideas that can at least be pointers.

Hi Mike.

I think Gregg's post talks about the clue that you're looking for.
My one serious experience with networks was a short part-time gig in
a small office whose network was based on LANtastic. All of the PCs
(yes, that's all they had--no Macs) were running Win98SE, and shared
a dial-up connection using  "Internet Connection Sharing" (that's
what ICS as Gregg referred to stands for). As Gregg said, it was
first introduced in Win98SE, which may be why things aren't working
for Terry aka "Obsolete" and why the limitation of the network is
Win98se and higher.
ICS works fine accross two nics and there's no requirement place on the 
mac to use it. DHCP or static all works but you use your isp's dns and 
domain name, used it for a year with lots of macs, Wingates better

I suspect that there are some workarounds to enable a computer not 
running Win98SE (PC or Mac) to use it. I'm looking at an article on 
the M$ KnowledgeBase (KB234815) and it says that you only need one 
computer running Win98SE or higher to serve as the gateway; the other 
computers just need to have TCP-IP enabled client software. There are 
a number of links from the page, and you might find the help you 
need there. I found the article by searching on (quotes included) 
"Internet Connection Sharing", and this particular article showed up 
in the top right corner in a box marked "Related Links". The article 
itself lists "KB234815" as a keyword, so you could probably go there 
pretty quickly by typing that in the search box.

Yes thats about right, ICS is easy enough to setup on any computer 
following what I wrote above.

Terry, what kind of network are you trying to hook up to, anyway? An 
ISP network, an office network or what? Seems to me that unless 
you're trying to do something unapproved (as in the office network 
scenario) or your sysadmin has that arrogant "we don't support that" 
attitude, you should be able to at least get some technical 
information. If you have access to a Windows box there, you can get 
some info by right-clicking on "Network Neighborhood" from the 
desktop or (if you don't have that icon), going to Start-> Settings-> 
Control Panel-> Network and looking at the settings for the network 
protocols.

Winipcfg makes this easy enough without the temptation to make changes. :)

I know there's a Mac software package called DAVE which enables one
to use a Mac to connect to Windows-based networks, but I don't know
how far back in Macs and OS's it supports, even the old versions of
DAVE. When you say "Quadra", I'm presuming a 68K machine--am I
right? And what version of the Mac OS is it running? It'd at least
be worthwhile looking into. DAVE is produced by Thursby Software; a
Google search should turn 'em up easily enough. 

Gamba's page is a good place to look for dave which is useful for file 
sharing but doesn't do much for web browsing, since there is a Netgear 
router thrown into the mix would it not be better to config the macs to 
suit the router or buy a hub and have the macs on a seperate plug from 
the router rather than fart around with ICS?

Well I'm sick of talking to myself, cheers





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Re: Network problems

[MUGWump]

> Date:  Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:32:00 +1000
> From:  Darren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Where's Mugwump??? :)

MUGWump's here; I'm honored to have been missed. I've been looking at 
this thread and mostly trying to learn, as networking's not my forte. 
But after I saw your message, I put my thinking cap on (as I went 
back to bed) and may have some ideas that can at least be pointers.

I think Gregg's post talks about the clue that you're looking for.
My one serious experience with networks was a short part-time gig in
a small office whose network was based on LANtastic. All of the PCs
(yes, that's all they had--no Macs) were running Win98SE, and shared
a dial-up connection using  "Internet Connection Sharing" (that's
what ICS as Gregg referred to stands for). As Gregg said, it was
first introduced in Win98SE, which may be why things aren't working
for Terry aka "Obsolete" and why the limitation of the network is
Win98se and higher.

I suspect that there are some workarounds to enable a computer not 
running Win98SE (PC or Mac) to use it. I'm looking at an article on 
the M$ KnowledgeBase (KB234815) and it says that you only need one 
computer running Win98SE or higher to serve as the gateway; the other 
computers just need to have TCP-IP enabled client software. There are 
a number of links from the page, and you might find the help you 
need there. I found the article by searching on (quotes included) 
"Internet Connection Sharing", and this particular article showed up 
in the top right corner in a box marked "Related Links". The article 
itself lists "KB234815" as a keyword, so you could probably go there 
pretty quickly by typing that in the search box.

Terry, what kind of network are you trying to hook up to, anyway? An 
ISP network, an office network or what? Seems to me that unless 
you're trying to do something unapproved (as in the office network 
scenario) or your sysadmin has that arrogant "we don't support that" 
attitude, you should be able to at least get some technical 
information. If you have access to a Windows box there, you can get 
some info by right-clicking on "Network Neighborhood" from the 
desktop or (if you don't have that icon), going to Start-> Settings-> 
Control Panel-> Network and looking at the settings for the network 
protocols.

I know there's a Mac software package called DAVE which enables one
to use a Mac to connect to Windows-based networks, but I don't know
how far back in Macs and OS's it supports, even the old versions of
DAVE. When you say "Quadra", I'm presuming a 68K machine--am I
right? And what version of the Mac OS is it running? It'd at least
be worthwhile looking into. DAVE is produced by Thursby Software; a
Google search should turn 'em up easily enough. 

That's about all I have to offer; hope it helps you get on the right 
track.

God bless,
Mike the MUGWump

===
I'm a MUGWump: My "MUG" is on the Mac side of the fence (since mid-2002), and 
my "Wump" is on the PC side (since 1989). I've been on the trailing edge of 
computer technology since 1987 and love it! [P.S.] Due to limitations on this 
account, please send binaries to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and a confirmation note here. 

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Re: Network problems

[Darren]

Gregg Eshelman wrote:

I dunno if Windows' ICS can route internet traffic
between two network cards. Best bet would be 2000 Pro
or XP Pro. One other caveat is that Windows' ICS
only works with the 192.168.0.x IP range with the
255.255.255.0 subnet mask. You could set that on
the card the Macs will be connected to, but I bet
you'll need some piece of Windows routing software
to "go between" the two cards, especially if the LAN
is using a different IP address range.
 

ICS routes fine between two network (ISP->local) cards but the set ip 
range can be a problem for dual booting machines.
Does anyone know a way to change the local nics default from 192.168.0.x



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Re: Network problems

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> So here's the question: does anybody know of a
> program that will run on a
> PC and translate standard ethernet calls to whatever
> M$'s special
> ethernet calls are, thus allowing me to use the PC
> as a bridge from M$
> ethernet to standard and allowing all my machines
> access. Sorry if I sound
> a little naive, but this isn't my area.

How do they tell if what you have connected is NOT a
PC running Windows 98SE, Me, 2000 or XP?

Build a cheap Celeron PC, install 2 network cards and
Windows 98SE, 2000 or XP on it. Then connect the one
card to the network and a good 10/100 router/switch
with enough ports for all the Macs to the other card.

98SE and up has software for sharing internet
connections. 2000 and XP install it by default.
You have to install it on 98SE _after_ Windows is all
installed and working. It can be installed while
installing 98SE but it won't work that way.

I dunno if Windows' ICS can route internet traffic
between two network cards. Best bet would be 2000 Pro
or XP Pro. One other caveat is that Windows' ICS
only works with the 192.168.0.x IP range with the
255.255.255.0 subnet mask. You could set that on
the card the Macs will be connected to, but I bet
you'll need some piece of Windows routing software
to "go between" the two cards, especially if the LAN
is using a different IP address range.

=
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wins." Hiro Protagonist

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