Re: Finder windows !!!!!!

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:54, David Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> Finder window behavior hasn't changed in Catalina.
> 
> The "Open folders in tabs instead of new windows" checkbox controls behavior 
> when a folder is not opening in-place,  such as Command+Doubleclick, when 
> Toolbar & Sidebar are visible.
> 
> As always, when Toolbar & Sidebar are hidden, Finder always opens folders in 
> new windows (not tabs).
> 
> Might that be what you are seeing?

Ok, it seems like this. What feels wrong is that my folder window settings seem 
to have changed with Catalina. I suddenly end up with Toolbar enabled, or not, 
seemingly arbitrarily and the behavior I'm seeing is definitely not what I was 
seeing 2 weeks ago.

What I had was folders opened in the original window, with minimal chrome. My 
toolbar is empty when it is displayed. I guess I have to check all my window 
settings again and set new defaults.

Thank you for the reply and hints !


Jean-Christophe Helary
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Re: Finder windows !!!!!!

[David Schwartz]

Finder window behavior hasn't changed in Catalina.

The "Open folders in tabs instead of new windows" checkbox controls behavior 
when a folder is not opening in-place,  such as Command+Doubleclick, when 
Toolbar & Sidebar are visible.

As always, when Toolbar & Sidebar are hidden, Finder always opens folders in 
new windows (not tabs).

Might that be what you are seeing?

-david





> On Oct 20, 2019, at 1:23 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
> 
> It looks like with Catalina "Open folders in tabs instead of new windows" 
> (Finder > Preferences > General) doesn't work.
> 
> I seem to remember that just 2 weeks ago, before Catalina, I could open a 
> folder without having new tabs or new windows opened. I can't find where that 
> setting is.
> 
> Any clue ?
> 
> Jean-Christophe Helary
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Finder windows !!!!!!

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

It looks like with Catalina "Open folders in tabs instead of new windows" 
(Finder > Preferences > General) doesn't work.

I seem to remember that just 2 weeks ago, before Catalina, I could open a 
folder without having new tabs or new windows opened. I can't find where that 
setting is.

Any clue ?

Jean-Christophe Helary
---
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Re: Finder windows ?

[David Schwartz]

On Mar 26, 2018, at 11:58 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
 wrote:
> 
> if you've gotten used to the way tabs seem to work totally fine without 
> toolbars in other apps and you expect Finder to behave with some consistency 
> not considering Mac history but considering the other apps coexisting in the 
> same version of macOS.

The behavior of Finder in regards to Toolbar/Sidebar/windows was an original 
design of OS X. When Apple added Finder Tabs to Mavericks, they certainly 
weren't going to abandon that configuration option. Later, when system-wide 
tabs were introduced in Sierra, other apps wouldn't have the same constraints 
so they didn't get the same limitations. 

That everything is not 100% consistent across multiple application interfaces 
is just modern Apple. And if _that_ level of inconsistency causes you 
consternation, you've not used Windows lately. 
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Re: Finder windows ?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Mar 27, 2018, at 12:50, @lbutlr  wrote:
> 
 I think he was suggesting that "Finder / Preferences / General / Open 
 folders in tabs" should be grayed out when the tab bar is disabled.
> 
>>> No, because the tab bar is a WINDOW level preference. You can have one 
>>> window with tabs and another with no toolbar on screen at the same time.
> 
>> Can we agree that this is confusing ?
> 
> If you don’t look at the menus, yes, it is confusing. If you don’t look in 
> Finder help for “Hide toolbar", yes, it is confusing. 

No, I mean if you've gotten used to the way tabs seem to work totally fine 
without toolbars in other apps and you expect Finder to behave with some 
consistency not considering Mac history but considering the other apps 
coexisting in the same version of macOS.

Jean-Christophe Helary
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Re: Finder windows ?

[@lbutlr]

On 26 Mar 2018, at 21:32, Jean-Christophe Helary 
<jean.christophe.hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 12:12, @lbutlr <krem...@kreme.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-03-26 (21:07 MDT), Macs R We <macs...@macsrwe.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think he was suggesting that "Finder / Preferences / General / Open 
>>> folders in tabs" should be grayed out when the tab bar is disabled.

>> No, because the tab bar is a WINDOW level preference. You can have one 
>> window with tabs and another with no toolbar on screen at the same time.

> Can we agree that this is confusing ?

If you don’t look at the menus, yes, it is confusing. If you don’t look in 
Finder help for “Hide toolbar", yes, it is confusing. 

"• Hide or show the toolbar: Choose View > Hide Toolbar, or View > Show Toolbar.

Hiding the toolbar also hides the sidebar, and moves the status bar from the 
bottom to the top of the window.”

Since the status bar is at the top of the window now, mimicking Mac OS 8/9, 
there is no place for the tab bar.

And if you don’t google for this, you won’t find things like:

<http://osxdaily.com/2011/12/07/hide-toolbar-mac-os-x-finder-windows/>
> With the toolbar hidden, desktop windows take on a minimalist appearance and 
> as a side effect, all folders open in new windows rather than be contained in 
> the same window. This is how older versions of Mac OS behaved, and it’s very 
> useful if you’re moving or copying items around in nested folders but can 
> quickly lead to a lot of window clutter.

-- 
It's Tchaikovsky's 'Another One Bites the Dust'," said Crowley, closing
his eyes as they went through Slough.


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Re: Finder windows ?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Mar 27, 2018, at 12:12, @lbutlr  wrote:
> 
> On 2018-03-26 (21:07 MDT), Macs R We  wrote:
>> 
>> I think he was suggesting that "Finder / Preferences / General / Open 
>> folders in tabs" should be grayed out when the tab bar is disabled.
> 
> No, because the tab bar is a WINDOW level preference. You can have one window 
> with tabs and another with no toolbar on screen at the same time.

Can we agree that this is confusing ?

Jean-Christophe Helary
---
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Re: Finder windows ?

[Macs R We]

Right, and that's why it doesn't gray out.

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 8:12 PM, @lbutlr  wrote:
> 
> On 2018-03-26 (21:07 MDT), Macs R We  wrote:
>> 
>> I think he was suggesting that "Finder / Preferences / General / Open 
>> folders in tabs" should be grayed out when the tab bar is disabled.
> 
> No, because the tab bar is a WINDOW level preference. You can have one window 
> with tabs and another with no toolbar on screen at the same time.
> 
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Re: Finder windows ?

[@lbutlr]

On 2018-03-26 (21:07 MDT), Macs R We  wrote:
> 
> I think he was suggesting that "Finder / Preferences / General / Open folders 
> in tabs" should be grayed out when the tab bar is disabled.

No, because the tab bar is a WINDOW level preference. You can have one window 
with tabs and another with no toolbar on screen at the same time.

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Re: Finder windows ?

[Macs R We]

I think he was suggesting that "Finder / Preferences / General / Open folders 
in tabs" should be grayed out when the tab bar is disabled.

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 8:04 PM, @lbutlr  wrote:
> 
> On 2018-03-26 (20:53 MDT), Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm interested in having the tool work as advertised, 
> 
> 
> It does. Hiding the toolbar hides the sidebar as well and disables the menu 
> options for showing the sidebar and the tab bar, so the UI tells you right 
> there that the Finder tab bar requires the toolbar to be there.
> 
> When you have a tabbed finder window, you cannot run off the toolbar, which 
> is another way the Finder tells you that the toolbar and the tab bar are 
> linked.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Finder windows ?

[@lbutlr]

On 2018-03-26 (20:53 MDT), Jean-Christophe Helary 
 wrote:
> 
> I'm interested in having the tool work as advertised, 


It does. Hiding the toolbar hides the sidebar as well and disables the menu 
options for showing the sidebar and the tab bar, so the UI tells you right 
there that the Finder tab bar requires the toolbar to be there.

When you have a tabbed finder window, you cannot run off the toolbar, which is 
another way the Finder tells you that the toolbar and the tab bar are linked.



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Re: Finder windows ?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:43, David Schwartz  wrote:

> Users of MacOS 9,8,7,6... remember that double clicking a folder would, by 
> default, open that folder in a new Window.

Well, I did not remember that (I've only used Macs since OS 7) because as I 
wrote, I only started to work without the toolbar (to remove useless chrome) 
recently and was baffled to see that even though I had "open folders in tabs" 
checked it did not work, hence the discussion about the tab bar.

I'm not interested in Mac archeology, I'm interested in having the tool work as 
advertised, which is "open folders in tabs instead of new windows".

If that setting requires the tool bar, then maybe it should be greyed out when 
the tool bar is not shown, or something.


Jean-Christophe Helary
---
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Re: Finder windows ?

[David Schwartz]

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
> 
> I never worked without the toolbar before and in other apps the presence or 
> absence of toolbar does not keep the app from creating a tab bar.

I'm not sure what the Tab Bar feature, which was Recently added to macOS to 
allow any application to have them, has to do with how Finder behaves in 
regards to creating new windows when double-clicking folders. But if Finder.app 
needs to have the Toolbar visible to add Tabs then, um, ok.


> Also, when I specifically show the tab bar in Finder but hide the toolbar, 
> then I get back to that (weird compared to other apps) behavior.


The behavior brought up in this thread has nothing to do with Tabs (which, as I 
noted above, is new in relatively new in Finder and even newer in all other 
apps), it's a Toolbar thing.

Users of MacOS 9,8,7,6... remember that double clicking a folder would, by 
default, open that folder in a new Window. Holding the Option key could close 
the enclosing window at the same time the new window opened, but the behavior 
of a Finder window remaining static to display the contents of the 
double-clicked folder was a new paradigm for Mac OS X. My guess is Apple 
thought they should provide a way to somewhat mimic the old behavior in the new 
NeXT/Mac hybrid OS. The behavior has remained the same since then. It's been 18 
years; I'm used to it now.
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Re: Finder windows ?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Mar 27, 2018, at 8:40, David Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
>> 
>> I just redisplayed them and behavior is back to normal... Weird *and* 
>> inconvenient...
> 
> It’s been that way for as long as I can remember; maybe since Mac OS X Public 
> Beta. 
> 
> So maybe inconvenient for you, but not weird anymore.

Thank you David. I never worked without the toolbar before and in other apps 
the presence or absence of toolbar does not keep the app from creating a tab 
bar. Also, when I specifically show the tab bar in Finder but hide the toolbar, 
then I get back to that (weird compared to other apps) behavior.

Jean-Christophe Helary
---
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Re: Finder windows ?

[David Schwartz]

On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
 wrote:
> 
> I just redisplayed them and behavior is back to normal... Weird *and* 
> inconvenient...

It’s been that way for as long as I can remember; maybe since Mac OS X Public 
Beta. 

So maybe inconvenient for you, but not weird anymore. 
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Re: Finder windows ?

[Macs R We]

Maybe the finder figures that if you have no toolbar showing, you can’t open 
windows in tabs, so it doesn’t.

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 7:41, David Schwartz  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mar 26, 2018, at 6:41 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It looks like all my folders now open in separate windows.
>> 
>> Are your Sidebar and Toolbar hidden?
> 
> Yes. I just redisplayed them and behavior is back to normal... Weird *and* 
> inconvenient...
> 
> Any workaround?
> 
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
> 
> 
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Re: Finder windows ?

[Macs R We]

If it’s checked and still isn’t working, my guess would be some kind of 
corruption. Perhaps unchecking it, quitting out, and rechecking it might repair 
it.

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:25 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 3:22, Macs R We  wrote:
>> 
>> Finder / Preferences / General / checkbox at the bottom — at least in 10.12.
> 
> I have an "Open folders in tabs instead of new windows" that's checked and 
> does not seem to work.
> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 26, 2018, at 6:41 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's weird. It looks like all my folders now open in separate windows. I 
>>> can't find a setting (10.13.3) that will control that.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestion ?
>>> 
>>> Jean-Christophe Helary
>>> ---
>>> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
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Re: Finder windows ?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Mar 27, 2018, at 7:41, David Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> On Mar 26, 2018, at 6:41 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
>> 
>> It looks like all my folders now open in separate windows.
> 
> Are your Sidebar and Toolbar hidden?

Yes. I just redisplayed them and behavior is back to normal... Weird *and* 
inconvenient...

Any workaround?

Jean-Christophe Helary
---
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Re: Finder windows ?

[David Schwartz]

On Mar 26, 2018, at 6:41 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
 wrote:
> 
> It looks like all my folders now open in separate windows.

Are your Sidebar and Toolbar hidden?

-david 
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Re: Finder windows ?

[Macs R We]

Finder / Preferences / General / checkbox at the bottom — at least in 10.12.

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 6:41 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's weird. It looks like all my folders now open in separate windows. I 
> can't find a setting (10.13.3) that will control that.
> 
> Any suggestion ?
> 
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
> 
> 
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Finder windows ?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

It's weird. It looks like all my folders now open in separate windows. I can't 
find a setting (10.13.3) that will control that.

Any suggestion ?

Jean-Christophe Helary
---
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune


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Re: finder windows

[LuKreme]

On Mar 23, 2011, at 10:02 AM, William Ehrich wrote:

 On one of my boot drives new finder windows open where they were closed and 
 on the other one they always open in the upper left corner. Where is the 
 preference for changing that?

ALL finder windows open only in the upper left on one boot drive? Do you mean 
when you are booted from it as opposed to the other?

 And is there a preference for whether unmounting a dmg closes the finder 
 window? It seems to happen sometimes, but not always. ??

If the dmg is selected or any content on the dmg is being shown in the window, 
ejecting the image closes the window.


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Re: finder windows

[Macs R We]

On Mar 24, 2011, at 6:43 AM, LuKreme wrote:

 And is there a preference for whether unmounting a dmg closes the finder 
 window? It seems to happen sometimes, but not always. ??
 
 If the dmg is selected or any content on the dmg is being shown in the 
 window, ejecting the image closes the window.

A few months ago, I would have said that, too.  But at times in the past 
several months, I have explicitly witnessed different behavior, in which 
hitting the sidebar eject symbol from a window showing a folder on that dmg 
causes the window to revert to the root view and stay around, while the dmg 
ejects.  I have definitely seen that from dmgs, I am less sure I have seen it 
from hardware drives.
-- 
  Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support
in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
http://macsrwe.com

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Re: finder windows

[LuKreme]

On Mar 24, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Macs R We wrote:
 On Mar 24, 2011, at 6:43 AM, LuKreme wrote:
 And is there a preference for whether unmounting a dmg closes the finder 
 window? It seems to happen sometimes, but not always. ??

 If the dmg is selected or any content on the dmg is being shown in the 
 window, ejecting the image closes the window.

 A few months ago, I would have said that, too.  But at times in the past 
 several months, I have explicitly witnessed different behavior, in which 
 hitting the sidebar eject symbol from a window showing a folder on that dmg 
 causes the window to revert to the root view and stay around, while the dmg 
 ejects.  I have definitely seen that from dmgs, I am less sure I have seen it 
 from hardware drives.

That is the old behavior (10.5? 10.4) and I have heard other people say that 
this happens on occasions, but no one that I've seen has tracked down the 
variables that cause this.

I do not see this under 10.6.6, but I have non-default settings for Finder 
windows (and maybe even some defaults write changes I've forgotten about).


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finder windows

[William Ehrich]

On one of my boot drives new finder windows open where they were closed 
and on the other one they always open in the upper left corner. Where is 
the preference for changing that?


And is there a preference for whether unmounting a dmg closes the finder 
window? It seems to happen sometimes, but not always. ??


(It would be nice to have something like Firefox about:config.)
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Re: finder windows

[Arno Hautala]

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 12:02, William Ehrich ehr...@mninter.net wrote:
 On one of my boot drives new finder windows open where they were closed and
 on the other one they always open in the upper left corner. Where is the
 preference for changing that?

I think this would be stored in the .DS_Store file of the parent
folder. Do other window configuration settings stick? It could be a
permissions issue, or damage to the file. In either case, delete the
.DS_Store and maybe restart the Finder, or log out and back in.
There's nothing critical stored there.

 And is there a preference for whether unmounting a dmg closes the finder
 window? It seems to happen sometimes, but not always. ??

I seem to remember that this behavior depends on how the window was
brought about, or what owns the window. If you received that window
by opening the DMG, it should close when ejected. If you got to the
contents of the DMG by navigating from another location, or perhaps
even if you started at the DMG, navigated away, and then back, the
window stays open.

 (It would be nice to have something like Firefox about:config.)

There is the Finder Preferences window, as well as the numerous
defaults write commands. Check out Mac OS X Hints and Secrets [2].

[1]: http://hints.macworld.com
[2]: http://secrets.blacktree.com


-- 
arno  s  hautala    /-|   a...@alum.wpi.edu

pgp b2c9d448
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