[MacRuby-devel] RoxorReturnFromBlockException*

2011-03-31 Thread Rob Gleeson 


> 
>   def trigger_action(sender)
>   a_proc = Proc.new { |var|
>   puts "hello in proc"
>   return 1
>   }
>   a_proc.call('test')
>   puts "hello after proc"
>   end
> That code runs without triggering an exception, and prints only "hello in 
> proc" as expected. However, this variation on the code behaves differently:

This shouldn't print "hello after proc". an explicit return should not return 
control to the caller within a method, it should return for that method.
F. ex, 1 should be the return value of trigger_action. 

If it were a lambda, that behavior is expected (printing "hello after proc"), 
so I guess there's a bug somewhere.

P.S: Gabriel, sorry, I replied to you directly instead of to the list :)

- Rob






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Re: [MacRuby-devel] RoxorReturnFromBlockException*

2011-03-31 Thread Rob Gleeson 

On 31 Mar 2011, at 08:05, Rob Gleeson wrote:

> 
> 
>> 
>>  def trigger_action(sender)
>>  a_proc = Proc.new { |var|
>>  puts "hello in proc"
>>  return 1
>>  }
>>  a_proc.call('test')
>>  puts "hello after proc"
>>  end
>> That code runs without triggering an exception, and prints only "hello in 
>> proc" as expected. However, this variation on the code behaves differently:
> 
> This shouldn't print "hello after proc". an explicit return should not return 
> control to the caller within a method, it should return for that method.
> F. ex, 1 should be the return value of trigger_action. 
> 
> If it were a lambda, that behavior is expected (printing "hello after proc"), 
> so I guess there's a bug somewhere.
> 
> P.S: Gabriel, sorry, I replied to you directly instead of to the list :)
> 
> - Rob
> 

Oops, sorry Garbiel. I misread your post. "hello IN proc" is indeed printed and 
expected. :) 

- Rob





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Re: [MacRuby-devel] Tyro Needs Ruby vs. O-C Advice

2011-03-31 Thread Rob Gleeson 

On 31 Mar 2011, at 04:43, Bryan Harrison wrote:

> I've decided to use an upcoming sabbatical to teach myself OS X and iOS 
> programming.  My background includes OS X systems administration and web 
> development, mostly using the Apache/MySQL/PHP model.  I'm familiar with OOP 
> concepts and have trifled with any number of languages from C to AppleScript, 
> but am not fluent in any object oriented language.  I've been exploring Xcode 
> 4 for a week and feel conversant with the IDE if not yet able to accomplish 
> anything with it.
> 
> So…  I understand that Cocoa is a given, but today's million dollar question 
> is Objective-C or MacRuby?  I'm a blank slate with regard to both and so 
> could use some good advice.  For example…
> 
> What are the advantages of MacRuby over Objective-C?
> 
> What are the advantage of O-C over Ruby?
> 
> Is Xcode's support for O-C significantly better than it's handling of Ruby?  
> Do I care?
> 
> At this point I'm primarily interested in OS X development, but iOS clearly 
> needs to run a close second.  What's the current status of Ruby development 
> for iOS and is it likely to go anywhere in the nearish future?
> 
> Any thoughts on the longer-term prospects of either language?
> 
> Any thoughts from anybody will be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bryan
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I prefer Ruby because it's easier to prototype quickly. I'm also way more 
familiar with Ruby, but when I'm writing Objective-C, I feel like I'm battling 
the language. With ruby, I can just solve problems, the language
part comes naturally. 

By the way, I only got into C/Objective-C recently. it's a work-in-progress, 
and could have a large part to do with it. 

On the plus side, if you do choose to dip into MacRuby, the APIs will map 
almost straight back to Objective-C Cocoa APIs, so it's not a lost cause. There 
is a benefit in that you'll learn Cocoa APIs, and be able to translate those 
back to Objective-C if/when you decide to. (The same is true if you learn 
Objective-C, and then MacRuby of course)

I just prefer Ruby because it's obviously my language of preference, and I seem 
to be able to work quicker with it. 

Maybe you could try both languages, and see which fits better for *you*? 

- Rob





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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Jean-Denis Muys 

On 31 mars 2011, at 05:56, 
Bryan Harrison  wrote:

> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:43:27 -0700
> From: Bryan Harrison 
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [MacRuby-devel] Tyro Needs Ruby vs. O-C Advice
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> I've decided to use an upcoming sabbatical to teach myself OS X and iOS 
> programming.  My background includes OS X systems administration and web 
> development, mostly using the Apache/MySQL/PHP model.  I'm familiar with OOP 
> concepts and have trifled with any number of languages from C to AppleScript, 
> but am not fluent in any object oriented language.  I've been exploring Xcode 
> 4 for a week and feel conversant with the IDE if not yet able to accomplish 
> anything with it.
> 
> So?  I understand that Cocoa is a given, but today's million dollar question 
> is Objective-C or MacRuby?  I'm a blank slate with regard to both and so 
> could use some good advice.  For example?
> 
> What are the advantages of MacRuby over Objective-C?
> 
> What are the advantage of O-C over Ruby?
> 
> Is Xcode's support for O-C significantly better than it's handling of Ruby?  
> Do I care?
> 
> At this point I'm primarily interested in OS X development, but iOS clearly 
> needs to run a close second.  What's the current status of Ruby development 
> for iOS and is it likely to go anywhere in the nearish future?
> 
> Any thoughts on the longer-term prospects of either language?
> 
> Any thoughts from anybody will be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bryan

I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.

Before I get burned at the stake on this list, let me explain why. This stems 
from an assumption I made from you question about your goal:

Assumption: your goal is to become proficient in Cocoa [touch] programming as 
fast as possible, starting from basically zero.

If that assumption is wrong, then the conclusion might be too.

MacRuby is very good already, but it's a far less treaded route. As a result, 
you will have to load your brain with additional burden, always a difficult 
proposition when learning:

- Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books, less blog 
posts, less people to help you out.
- So you will need to translate every example and snippet from Objective-C to 
Ruby. This means you will effectively need to learn two languages instead of 
one at the same time, together with Cocoa.
- You will need to translate every one of your question from Ruby to 
Objective-C when posting to stackoverflow or Apple's forum, or risk getting no 
answer. Sure you can stay in this list, but that's one less resource.
- Every time you face a difficult roadblock, you will necessarily have to 
wonder "Is this me? Or is this MacRuby?". To answer that question for certain, 
you will then port your code to Objective-C to make sure.
- You will face less understanding development tools. When you have an issue 
with them, the official answer will be "MacRuby development is not supported". 
With Xcode 4 being immature by itself, you probably don't want to add an 
immature MacRuby to the mix.

Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you. And if for 
you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.

On the practical details, what has been said still applies, with two small 
corrections:

- You also have ahead of time compilation with MacRuby. But arguably, you don't 
care about that when learning.
- The job market for iOS programming is thriving, and for Mac programming is 
getting a lot better. Sure, Ruby programmers are also in demand, but it's not 
clear to me which market is actually better. One thing is for sure: demand for 
iOS Ruby programmers is zero.

Jean-Denis



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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Joseph Anthony Pasquale Holsten 
Jean-Denis Muys wrote:
> Bryan Harrison  wrote:
>> 
>> I've decided to use an upcoming sabbatical to teach myself OS X and iOS 
>> programming. [...]
>> [T]oday's million dollar question is Objective-C or MacRuby? [...]
> 
> I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.
> [...]
> One thing is for sure: demand for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.


+1
--
http://josephholsten.com

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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Eloy Durán 
Well put, sir. Well put.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Eloy Durán

On Mar 31, 2011, at 10:26 AM, Jean-Denis Muys wrote:

> 
> I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.
> 
> Before I get burned at the stake on this list, let me explain why. This stems 
> from an assumption I made from you question about your goal:
> 
> Assumption: your goal is to become proficient in Cocoa [touch] programming as 
> fast as possible, starting from basically zero.
> 
> If that assumption is wrong, then the conclusion might be too.
> 
> MacRuby is very good already, but it's a far less treaded route. As a result, 
> you will have to load your brain with additional burden, always a difficult 
> proposition when learning:
> 
> - Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books, less 
> blog posts, less people to help you out.
> - So you will need to translate every example and snippet from Objective-C to 
> Ruby. This means you will effectively need to learn two languages instead of 
> one at the same time, together with Cocoa.
> - You will need to translate every one of your question from Ruby to 
> Objective-C when posting to stackoverflow or Apple's forum, or risk getting 
> no answer. Sure you can stay in this list, but that's one less resource.
> - Every time you face a difficult roadblock, you will necessarily have to 
> wonder "Is this me? Or is this MacRuby?". To answer that question for 
> certain, you will then port your code to Objective-C to make sure.
> - You will face less understanding development tools. When you have an issue 
> with them, the official answer will be "MacRuby development is not 
> supported". With Xcode 4 being immature by itself, you probably don't want to 
> add an immature MacRuby to the mix.
> 
> Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you. And if 
> for you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.
> 
> On the practical details, what has been said still applies, with two small 
> corrections:
> 
> - You also have ahead of time compilation with MacRuby. But arguably, you 
> don't care about that when learning.
> - The job market for iOS programming is thriving, and for Mac programming is 
> getting a lot better. Sure, Ruby programmers are also in demand, but it's not 
> clear to me which market is actually better. One thing is for sure: demand 
> for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.
> 
> Jean-Denis
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Thomas R. Koll 

Am 31.03.2011 um 10:26 schrieb Jean-Denis Muys:
> 
> I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.

I say, if you don't know either Ruby or Objective-C yet, stay away from MacRuby.

All those ruby dev who like me are most likely coming from webdevelopment,
dive into this new world of desktop applications. It's a fascinating world.


> - Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books, less 
> blog posts, less people to help you out.

Which is great if you are able and willing to fill those gaps.
Open Source is not only about using what exists but also to
add something new to it.
Over time you will get deeper and more profund understanding.


> Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you. And if 
> for you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.

+1


> - One thing is for sure: demand for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.

Which might be subject to change.
Don't forget, the only two things keeping MacRuby from iOS is
the lack of a garbage collector and the App Store policy about
programming languages.
Both in the hands of Apple, just like MacRuby itself.



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Re: [MacRuby-devel] RoxorReturnFromBlockException*

2011-03-31 Thread Gabriel Gilder 
Yep, no worries. I probably should have explicitly said that "hello after
proc" doesn't print, which is the correct behavior.

-Gabriel

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Rob Gleeson  wrote:

>
> On 31 Mar 2011, at 08:05, Rob Gleeson wrote:
>
>
>
>
>  def trigger_action(sender)
>
>  a_proc = Proc.new { |var|
>
>  puts "hello in proc"
>
>  return 1
>
>  }
>
>  a_proc.call('test')
>
>  puts "hello after proc"
>
> end
>
> That code runs without triggering an exception, and prints only "hello in
> proc" as expected. However, this variation on the code behaves differently:
>
>
> This shouldn't print "hello after proc". an explicit return should not
> return control to the caller within a method, it should return for that
> method.
> F. ex, 1 should be the return value of trigger_action.
>
> If it were a lambda, that behavior is expected (printing "hello after
> proc"), so I guess there's a bug somewhere.
>
> P.S: Gabriel, sorry, I replied to you directly instead of to the list :)
>
> - Rob
>
>
> Oops, sorry Garbiel. I misread your post. "hello IN proc" is indeed printed
> and expected. :)
>
> - Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [MacRuby-devel] hotcocoa virus

2011-03-31 Thread Gary Weaver 

Enzo,

What I meant is that there are various versions of HotCocoa on GitHub. 
You might want to try someone's repo that was updated more recently. The 
"official"/original version ( https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa ) 
is probably the one you are using, but you can find a more recent one 
with patches, etc. by looking at its network in GitHub:

https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa/network

for example, some more recent versions at time of writing are:
https://github.com/gmanley/hotcocoa
https://github.com/jamis/hotcocoa

Gary


On 3/30/11 5:32 PM, Vincenzo Piombo wrote:

Gary,
"Virus" was joke of course, however I changed the name on gist.
I doubt it is a hotcocoa issue, but as soon as I have some time will 
try to replicate it with an IB version.


What do you mean by "where you got it" ?  The code is mine, I was 
trying to do something along the lines of this 
http://www.nongnu.org/gstutorial/en/ch13s04.html.



By the way, do you know where can I find a working drag&drop macruby 
example ?


Enzo

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Gary Weaver > wrote:


Enzo,

It might be a translation issue, but I wouldn't call that a virus
(it doesn't replicate, it is just something that freezes your
computer). I wouldn't call it "Virus" in the gist either, if I
were you.

If it is a bug in HotCocoa, than it may be a bug (or at least
undesired functionality if it freezes your Mac) in MacRuby or OS
X, so you might want to dig deeper and provide more info on
version (and where you got it, since it is in various places in
GitHub) of HotCocoa.

Thanks!
Gary


On 3/29/11 5:27 PM, Vincenzo Piombo wrote:

Hi all,
 I was trying to add drag & drop capabilities to a hotcocoa
program and stumbled into a problem that really puzzles me: a
macruby program can freeze your mac !

I uploaded the buggy fragment here: https://gist.github.com/893300

Don't run it unless you are prepared to reboot your machine the
hard way, don't even "Force quit" works.
In the instructions I say to launch it twice, but every drag &
drop with any app  after the crash freezes the app.


I'm using macruby 0.9, tried 0.10 but hotcocoa does not work with
it (but this is another story !)

Hope someone can tell me if I did something wrong or found a bug
somewhere.

Enzp






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Re: [MacRuby-devel] hotcocoa virus

2011-03-31 Thread Vincenzo Piombo 
Ok, thanks a lot, Gary: I will try them.

So no "official" repository is going to be put up ?

Enzo

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Gary Weaver  wrote:

>  Enzo,
>
> What I meant is that there are various versions of HotCocoa on GitHub. You
> might want to try someone's repo that was updated more recently. The
> "official"/original version ( https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa ) is
> probably the one you are using, but you can find a more recent one with
> patches, etc. by looking at its network in GitHub:
> https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa/network
>
> for example, some more recent versions at time of writing are:
> https://github.com/gmanley/hotcocoa
> https://github.com/jamis/hotcocoa
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> On 3/30/11 5:32 PM, Vincenzo Piombo wrote:
>
> Gary,
> "Virus" was joke of course, however I changed the name on gist.
> I doubt it is a hotcocoa issue, but as soon as I have some time will try to
> replicate it with an IB version.
>
>  What do you mean by "where you got it" ?  The code is mine, I was trying
> to do something along the lines of this
> http://www.nongnu.org/gstutorial/en/ch13s04.html.
>
>
>  By the way, do you know where can I find a working drag&drop macruby
> example ?
>
>  Enzo
>
>  On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Gary Weaver wrote:
>
>>  Enzo,
>>
>> It might be a translation issue, but I wouldn't call that a virus (it
>> doesn't replicate, it is just something that freezes your computer). I
>> wouldn't call it "Virus" in the gist either, if I were you.
>>
>> If it is a bug in HotCocoa, than it may be a bug (or at least undesired
>> functionality if it freezes your Mac) in MacRuby or OS X, so you might want
>> to dig deeper and provide more info on version (and where you got it, since
>> it is in various places in GitHub) of HotCocoa.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>  Gary
>>
>>
>> On 3/29/11 5:27 PM, Vincenzo Piombo wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>  I was trying to add drag & drop capabilities to a hotcocoa program and
>> stumbled into a problem that really puzzles me: a macruby program can freeze
>> your mac !
>>
>>  I uploaded the buggy fragment here: https://gist.github.com/893300
>>
>>  Don't run it unless you are prepared to reboot your machine the hard
>> way, don't even "Force quit" works.
>> In the instructions I say to launch it twice, but every drag & drop with
>> any app  after the crash freezes the app.
>>
>>
>>  I'm using macruby 0.9, tried 0.10 but hotcocoa does not work with it
>> (but this is another story !)
>>
>>  Hope someone can tell me if I did something wrong or found a bug
>> somewhere.
>>
>>  Enzp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [MacRuby-devel] hotcocoa virus

2011-03-31 Thread Gary Weaver 
I'm not the HotCocoa authority, but in 
http://www.macruby.org/hotcocoa/getting_started.html it states:


"HotCocoa is part of the MacRuby  distribution 
which will ship with figure versions of OS X."


(I think it is supposed to be "future" not "figure", btw.)

But, according the Rich's readme:
https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa

"HotCocoa used to be included in MacRuby but is now managed as a 
separate gem. This will allow HotCocoa to accept contributions and 
evolve more quickly."


The link on that page to example source for MacRuby is broken btw:
http://svn.macosforge.org/repository/ruby/MacRuby/trunk/sample-macruby

The wiki on HotCocoa which is the most up-to-date source for info, I 
think, is here:

http://www.macruby.org/trac/wiki/HotCocoa

And the versions listed on 
http://www.macruby.org/trac/wiki/HotCocoaResources are currently:


   * http://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa/network (Network Graph)

   * http://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa (Rich Kilmer)

   * http://github.com/dj2/hotcocoa/ (Dan Sinclair)

Somehow, I thought the official version from somewhere on the site 
(maybe not the wiki) used to point to: 
https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa but I could only find those links 
in my recent perusal of the macruby.org and macruby wiki.


Maybe it would be good if someone eventually created an official 
hotcocoa/hotcocoa repo in GitHub (especially now that macruby/macruby is 
there).


Also, there are still references to HotCocoa in MacRuby (latest from 
GitHub):


MacRuby (master)]$ grep -r HotCocoa *
instruby.rb:  when 'hotcocoa', 'rb_nibtool'
misc/release/MacRuby.pmdoc/01macruby-contents.xml: 
rakelib/builder/options.rb:  $stderr.puts "The 'build_as_embeddable' 
build configuration has been removed because it is no longer necessary. 
To package a full version of MacRuby inside your application, please use 
`macrake deploy` for HotCocoa apps and the `Embed MacRuby` target for 
Xcode apps."

sample-macruby/About MacRuby Examples.rtf:\b HotCocoa
sample-macruby/About MacRuby Examples.rtf:\b0  directory contains 
examples for the MacRuby's HotCocoa\

sample-macruby/Scripts/growl/hotcocoa_growl.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
sample-macruby/Scripts/growl/hotcocoa_growl.rb:  include HotCocoa
sample-macruby/Scripts/growl/hotcocoa_sample.rb:require 'hotcocoa_growl'
test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/mapper_test.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/mapper_test.rb:  include HotCocoa::Mappings
test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/mappings_test.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/mappings_test.rb:  include HotCocoa
test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/object_ext_test.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/object_ext_test.rb:assert_equal 
HotCocoa,   Object.full_const_get("HotCocoa")
test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/object_ext_test.rb:assert_equal 
HotCocoa::Mappings, Object.full_const_get("HotCocoa::Mappings")

test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/plist_test.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/plist_test.rb:  include HotCocoa


On 3/31/11 12:59 PM, Vincenzo Piombo wrote:

Ok, thanks a lot, Gary: I will try them.

So no "official" repository is going to be put up ?

Enzo

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Gary Weaver > wrote:


Enzo,

What I meant is that there are various versions of HotCocoa on
GitHub. You might want to try someone's repo that was updated more
recently. The "official"/original version (
https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa ) is probably the one you
are using, but you can find a more recent one with patches, etc.
by looking at its network in GitHub:
https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa/network

for example, some more recent versions at time of writing are:
https://github.com/gmanley/hotcocoa
https://github.com/jamis/hotcocoa

Gary



On 3/30/11 5:32 PM, Vincenzo Piombo wrote:

Gary,
"Virus" was joke of course, however I changed the name on gist.
I doubt it is a hotcocoa issue, but as soon as I have some time
will try to replicate it with an IB version.

What do you mean by "where you got it" ?  The code is mine, I was
trying to do something along the lines of this
http://www.nongnu.org/gstutorial/en/ch13s04.html.


By the way, do you know where can I find a working drag&drop
macruby example ?

Enzo

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Gary Weaver
mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Enzo,

It might be a translation issue, but I wouldn't call that a
virus (it doesn't replicate, it is just something that
freezes your computer). I wouldn't call it "Virus" in the
gist either, if I were you.

If it is a bug in HotCocoa, than it may be a bug (or at least
undesired functionality if it freezes your Mac) in MacRuby or
OS X, so you might want to dig deeper and provide more info
on version (and where you got it, since it is in various

Re: [MacRuby-devel] hotcocoa virus

2011-03-31 Thread Joshua Ballanco 
HotCocoa development has been happening independently of MacRuby for a while
now. Any remaining references in the code or on the website are bugs (or, in
the case of the website, out-of-date pages). It would be nice to clean up
some of these references, but that's a rather low-priority task at the
moment. (Of course, pull requests are more than welcome ;-).

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Gary Weaver  wrote:

>  I'm not the HotCocoa authority, but in
> http://www.macruby.org/hotcocoa/getting_started.html it states:
>
> "HotCocoa is part of the MacRuby  distribution
> which will ship with figure versions of OS X."
>
> (I think it is supposed to be "future" not "figure", btw.)
>
> But, according the Rich's readme:
>
> https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa
>
> "HotCocoa used to be included in MacRuby but is now managed as a separate
> gem. This will allow HotCocoa to accept contributions and evolve more
> quickly."
>
> The link on that page to example source for MacRuby is broken btw:
> http://svn.macosforge.org/repository/ruby/MacRuby/trunk/sample-macruby
>
> The wiki on HotCocoa which is the most up-to-date source for info, I think,
> is here:
> http://www.macruby.org/trac/wiki/HotCocoa
>
> And the versions listed on
> http://www.macruby.org/trac/wiki/HotCocoaResources are currently:
>
>-  
> http://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa/network(Network
>  Graph)
>
>
>-  
> http://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa(Rich
>  Kilmer)
>
>
>-  http://github.com/dj2/hotcocoa/ (Dan 
> Sinclair)
>
> Somehow, I thought the official version from somewhere on the site (maybe
> not the wiki) used to point to: https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa but
> I could only find those links in my recent perusal of the macruby.org and
> macruby wiki.
>
> Maybe it would be good if someone eventually created an official
> hotcocoa/hotcocoa repo in GitHub (especially now that macruby/macruby is
> there).
>
> Also, there are still references to HotCocoa in MacRuby (latest from
> GitHub):
>
> MacRuby (master)]$ grep -r HotCocoa *
> instruby.rb:  when 'hotcocoa', 'rb_nibtool'
> misc/release/MacRuby.pmdoc/01macruby-contents.xml: 
> rakelib/builder/options.rb:  $stderr.puts "The 'build_as_embeddable' build
> configuration has been removed because it is no longer necessary. To package
> a full version of MacRuby inside your application, please use `macrake
> deploy` for HotCocoa apps and the `Embed MacRuby` target for Xcode apps."
> sample-macruby/About MacRuby Examples.rtf:\b HotCocoa
> sample-macruby/About MacRuby Examples.rtf:\b0  directory contains examples
> for the MacRuby's HotCocoa\
> sample-macruby/Scripts/growl/hotcocoa_growl.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
> sample-macruby/Scripts/growl/hotcocoa_growl.rb:  include HotCocoa
> sample-macruby/Scripts/growl/hotcocoa_sample.rb:require 'hotcocoa_growl'
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/mapper_test.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/mapper_test.rb:  include HotCocoa::Mappings
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/mappings_test.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/mappings_test.rb:  include HotCocoa
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/object_ext_test.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/object_ext_test.rb:assert_equal
> HotCocoa,   Object.full_const_get("HotCocoa")
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/object_ext_test.rb:assert_equal
> HotCocoa::Mappings, Object.full_const_get("HotCocoa::Mappings")
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/plist_test.rb:require 'hotcocoa'
> test-macruby/cases/hotcocoa/plist_test.rb:  include HotCocoa
>
>
>
> On 3/31/11 12:59 PM, Vincenzo Piombo wrote:
>
> Ok, thanks a lot, Gary: I will try them.
>
> So no "official" repository is going to be put up ?
>
> Enzo
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Gary Weaver  wrote:
>
>>  Enzo,
>>
>> What I meant is that there are various versions of HotCocoa on GitHub. You
>> might want to try someone's repo that was updated more recently. The
>> "official"/original version ( https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa ) is
>> probably the one you are using, but you can find a more recent one with
>> patches, etc. by looking at its network in GitHub:
>> https://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa/network
>>
>> for example, some more recent versions at time of writing are:
>> https://github.com/gmanley/hotcocoa
>> https://github.com/jamis/hotcocoa
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/30/11 5:32 PM, Vincenzo Piombo wrote:
>>
>> Gary,
>> "Virus" was joke of course, however I changed the name on gist.
>> I doubt it is a hotcocoa issue, but as soon as I have some time will try
>> to replicate it with an IB version.
>>
>>  What do you mean by "where you got it" ?  The code is mine, I was trying
>> to do something along the lines of this
>> http://www.nongnu.org/gstutorial/en/ch13s04.html.
>>
>>
>>  By the way, do you know where can I find a working drag&drop macruby
>> exampl

Re: [MacRuby-devel] Tyro Needs Ruby vs. O-C Advice

2011-03-31 Thread Bryan Harrison 
Forgive me for not saying "thanks" individually, but you've all been so 
generous with your time and thoughts that doing so would clutter up the list.  
;)

If anyone's curious, my immediate reaction is that I'll learn both, starting by 
devoting a week to each just to get a feel and figure out which one I'd like to 
pursue to fluency first.

Thanks again,
Bryan
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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Terry Moore 
Well it would appear that Macruby is just not ready for real development. 

I for one have some faith that Macruby is good enough now and will be language 
of choice in the future. 

There are no barriers to you mixing external frameworks or adding objc classes.

Ruby as a language has many features that you can grow into that objc doesn't ( 
meta programming). 

If you use a standard version of ruby there is nothing to stop even a c hacker 
using 'the latest' libraries and putting a simple wrapper on.

Ruby has become an umbrella for all my work from admin support to web 
development. And now with macruby I have desktop apps for Mac.

Not forgetting jruby of course for any java fans and others like ruinous.


So yes on a serious note I would recommend everyone go learn c as a minimum. 
But if you just want to have some serious fun go mad with ruby/macruby. The 
learning will come by doing.

Terry Moore

On 31/03/2011, at 11:41 PM, "Thomas R. Koll"  wrote:

> 
> Am 31.03.2011 um 10:26 schrieb Jean-Denis Muys:
>> 
>> I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.
> 
> I say, if you don't know either Ruby or Objective-C yet, stay away from 
> MacRuby.
> 
> All those ruby dev who like me are most likely coming from webdevelopment,
> dive into this new world of desktop applications. It's a fascinating world.
> 
> 
>> - Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books, less 
>> blog posts, less people to help you out.
> 
> Which is great if you are able and willing to fill those gaps.
> Open Source is not only about using what exists but also to
> add something new to it.
> Over time you will get deeper and more profund understanding.
> 
> 
>> Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you. And if 
>> for you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.
> 
> +1
> 
> 
>> - One thing is for sure: demand for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.
> 
> Which might be subject to change.
> Don't forget, the only two things keeping MacRuby from iOS is
> the lack of a garbage collector and the App Store policy about
> programming languages.
> Both in the hands of Apple, just like MacRuby itself.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [MacRuby-devel] hotcocoa virus

2011-03-31 Thread Jordan K. Hubbard 

On Mar 31, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Gary Weaver wrote:

> Also, there are still references to HotCocoa in MacRuby (latest from GitHub):

We should probably nuke those!   Would you please file a trac ticket?  Thanks!

- Jordan

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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Matt Massicotte 
On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Terry Moore wrote:

> Well it would appear that Macruby is just not ready for real development. 
> 
> I for one have some faith that Macruby is good enough now and will be 
> language of choice in the future. 
> 
> There are no barriers to you mixing external frameworks or adding objc 
> classes.
> 
> Ruby as a language has many features that you can grow into that objc doesn't 
> ( meta programming). 

This has come up more than once today.  ObjC is capable of a lot more 
meta-programming than people are giving it credit for.  The Objective-C runtime 
is, afterall, what MacRuby is built on.  However, Ruby's meta-programming 
support is significantly simpler, making it easier to both use and abuse :)

> 
> If you use a standard version of ruby there is nothing to stop even a c 
> hacker using 'the latest' libraries and putting a simple wrapper on.
> 
> Ruby has become an umbrella for all my work from admin support to web 
> development. And now with macruby I have desktop apps for Mac.
> 
> Not forgetting jruby of course for any java fans and others like ruinous.
> 
> 
> So yes on a serious note I would recommend everyone go learn c as a minimum. 
> But if you just want to have some serious fun go mad with ruby/macruby. The 
> learning will come by doing.
> 
> Terry Moore
> 
> On 31/03/2011, at 11:41 PM, "Thomas R. Koll"  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Am 31.03.2011 um 10:26 schrieb Jean-Denis Muys:
>>> 
>>> I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.
>> 
>> I say, if you don't know either Ruby or Objective-C yet, stay away from 
>> MacRuby.
>> 
>> All those ruby dev who like me are most likely coming from webdevelopment,
>> dive into this new world of desktop applications. It's a fascinating world.
>> 
>> 
>>> - Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books, less 
>>> blog posts, less people to help you out.
>> 
>> Which is great if you are able and willing to fill those gaps.
>> Open Source is not only about using what exists but also to
>> add something new to it.
>> Over time you will get deeper and more profund understanding.
>> 
>> 
>>> Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you. And if 
>>> for you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> 
>>> - One thing is for sure: demand for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.
>> 
>> Which might be subject to change.
>> Don't forget, the only two things keeping MacRuby from iOS is
>> the lack of a garbage collector and the App Store policy about
>> programming languages.
>> Both in the hands of Apple, just like MacRuby itself.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Terry Moore 
I for one would like to see some examples of objc meta programming. 

Standard ruby is built with c are you saying c has some meta programming 
capabilities because of this.

An example like attr_accessor. I know objc 2 now has properties.

I also know some aspects of ruby are scary 'eval' and re opening classes but 
can you load objc source compile and run it aka 'eval'. 

All I'm trying to say here is that ruby has a place and with the macruby 
implementation you have nothing to lose by trying some ruby.  Mix it up a 
little and have some fun too.

Terry Moore

On 1/04/2011, at 7:59 AM, Matt Massicotte  wrote:

> On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Terry Moore wrote:
> 
>> Well it would appear that Macruby is just not ready for real development. 
>> 
>> I for one have some faith that Macruby is good enough now and will be 
>> language of choice in the future. 
>> 
>> There are no barriers to you mixing external frameworks or adding objc 
>> classes.
>> 
>> Ruby as a language has many features that you can grow into that objc 
>> doesn't ( meta programming). 
> 
> This has come up more than once today.  ObjC is capable of a lot more 
> meta-programming than people are giving it credit for.  The Objective-C 
> runtime is, afterall, what MacRuby is built on.  However, Ruby's 
> meta-programming support is significantly simpler, making it easier to both 
> use and abuse :)
> 
>> 
>> If you use a standard version of ruby there is nothing to stop even a c 
>> hacker using 'the latest' libraries and putting a simple wrapper on.
>> 
>> Ruby has become an umbrella for all my work from admin support to web 
>> development. And now with macruby I have desktop apps for Mac.
>> 
>> Not forgetting jruby of course for any java fans and others like ruinous.
>> 
>> 
>> So yes on a serious note I would recommend everyone go learn c as a minimum. 
>> But if you just want to have some serious fun go mad with ruby/macruby. The 
>> learning will come by doing.
>> 
>> Terry Moore
>> 
>> On 31/03/2011, at 11:41 PM, "Thomas R. Koll"  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 31.03.2011 um 10:26 schrieb Jean-Denis Muys:
 
 I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.
>>> 
>>> I say, if you don't know either Ruby or Objective-C yet, stay away from 
>>> MacRuby.
>>> 
>>> All those ruby dev who like me are most likely coming from webdevelopment,
>>> dive into this new world of desktop applications. It's a fascinating world.
>>> 
>>> 
 - Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books, less 
 blog posts, less people to help you out.
>>> 
>>> Which is great if you are able and willing to fill those gaps.
>>> Open Source is not only about using what exists but also to
>>> add something new to it.
>>> Over time you will get deeper and more profund understanding.
>>> 
>>> 
 Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you. And if 
 for you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.
>>> 
>>> +1
>>> 
>>> 
 - One thing is for sure: demand for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.
>>> 
>>> Which might be subject to change.
>>> Don't forget, the only two things keeping MacRuby from iOS is
>>> the lack of a garbage collector and the App Store policy about
>>> programming languages.
>>> Both in the hands of Apple, just like MacRuby itself.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> [email protected]
>>> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
>> ___
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>> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
> 
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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Matt Massicotte 
On Mar 31, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Terry Moore wrote:

> I for one would like to see some examples of objc meta programming. 

Here's a good place to start looking.

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ObjCRuntimeGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html

In particular, there are functions you can use for generating classes and 
methods at runtime, including modifying classes already present.  Though, 
that's often done much more easily using categories.  You can even do 
method_missing-style magic, but not nearly as nicely as in Ruby.

> 
> Standard ruby is built with c are you saying c has some meta programming 
> capabilities because of this.
> 
> An example like attr_accessor. I know objc 2 now has properties.
> 
> I also know some aspects of ruby are scary 'eval' and re opening classes but 
> can you load objc source compile and run it aka 'eval'. 
> 
> All I'm trying to say here is that ruby has a place and with the macruby 
> implementation you have nothing to lose by trying some ruby.  Mix it up a 
> little and have some fun too.
> 
> Terry Moore
> 
> On 1/04/2011, at 7:59 AM, Matt Massicotte  wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Terry Moore wrote:
>> 
>>> Well it would appear that Macruby is just not ready for real development. 
>>> 
>>> I for one have some faith that Macruby is good enough now and will be 
>>> language of choice in the future. 
>>> 
>>> There are no barriers to you mixing external frameworks or adding objc 
>>> classes.
>>> 
>>> Ruby as a language has many features that you can grow into that objc 
>>> doesn't ( meta programming). 
>> 
>> This has come up more than once today.  ObjC is capable of a lot more 
>> meta-programming than people are giving it credit for.  The Objective-C 
>> runtime is, afterall, what MacRuby is built on.  However, Ruby's 
>> meta-programming support is significantly simpler, making it easier to both 
>> use and abuse :)
>> 
>>> 
>>> If you use a standard version of ruby there is nothing to stop even a c 
>>> hacker using 'the latest' libraries and putting a simple wrapper on.
>>> 
>>> Ruby has become an umbrella for all my work from admin support to web 
>>> development. And now with macruby I have desktop apps for Mac.
>>> 
>>> Not forgetting jruby of course for any java fans and others like ruinous.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So yes on a serious note I would recommend everyone go learn c as a 
>>> minimum. But if you just want to have some serious fun go mad with 
>>> ruby/macruby. The learning will come by doing.
>>> 
>>> Terry Moore
>>> 
>>> On 31/03/2011, at 11:41 PM, "Thomas R. Koll"  wrote:
>>> 
 
 Am 31.03.2011 um 10:26 schrieb Jean-Denis Muys:
> 
> I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.
 
 I say, if you don't know either Ruby or Objective-C yet, stay away from 
 MacRuby.
 
 All those ruby dev who like me are most likely coming from webdevelopment,
 dive into this new world of desktop applications. It's a fascinating world.
 
 
> - Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books, less 
> blog posts, less people to help you out.
 
 Which is great if you are able and willing to fill those gaps.
 Open Source is not only about using what exists but also to
 add something new to it.
 Over time you will get deeper and more profund understanding.
 
 
> Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you. And 
> if for you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.
 
 +1
 
 
> - One thing is for sure: demand for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.
 
 Which might be subject to change.
 Don't forget, the only two things keeping MacRuby from iOS is
 the lack of a garbage collector and the App Store policy about
 programming languages.
 Both in the hands of Apple, just like MacRuby itself.
 
 
 
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 http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
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>>> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
>> 
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Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Morgan Schweers 
Greetings,
Yeah, I remember being shocked when I poked at a 'method_missing' kind of
thing on Objective C and realized that it was totally doable...  I had a
little fun with it, before punting and going back to a language where it's
easy.  :)

Check out: http://goo.gl/bz50U

--  Morgan

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Matt Massicotte wrote:

> On Mar 31, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Terry Moore wrote:
>
> > I for one would like to see some examples of objc meta programming.
>
> Here's a good place to start looking.
>
>
> http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ObjCRuntimeGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html
>
> In particular, there are functions you can use for generating classes and
> methods at runtime, including modifying classes already present.  Though,
> that's often done much more easily using categories.  You can even do
> method_missing-style magic, but not nearly as nicely as in Ruby.
>
> >
> > Standard ruby is built with c are you saying c has some meta programming
> capabilities because of this.
> >
> > An example like attr_accessor. I know objc 2 now has properties.
> >
> > I also know some aspects of ruby are scary 'eval' and re opening classes
> but can you load objc source compile and run it aka 'eval'.
> >
> > All I'm trying to say here is that ruby has a place and with the macruby
> implementation you have nothing to lose by trying some ruby.  Mix it up a
> little and have some fun too.
> >
> > Terry Moore
> >
> > On 1/04/2011, at 7:59 AM, Matt Massicotte  wrote:
> >
> >> On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Terry Moore wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well it would appear that Macruby is just not ready for real
> development.
> >>>
> >>> I for one have some faith that Macruby is good enough now and will be
> language of choice in the future.
> >>>
> >>> There are no barriers to you mixing external frameworks or adding objc
> classes.
> >>>
> >>> Ruby as a language has many features that you can grow into that objc
> doesn't ( meta programming).
> >>
> >> This has come up more than once today.  ObjC is capable of a lot more
> meta-programming than people are giving it credit for.  The Objective-C
> runtime is, afterall, what MacRuby is built on.  However, Ruby's
> meta-programming support is significantly simpler, making it easier to both
> use and abuse :)
> >>
> >>>
> >>> If you use a standard version of ruby there is nothing to stop even a c
> hacker using 'the latest' libraries and putting a simple wrapper on.
> >>>
> >>> Ruby has become an umbrella for all my work from admin support to web
> development. And now with macruby I have desktop apps for Mac.
> >>>
> >>> Not forgetting jruby of course for any java fans and others like
> ruinous.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So yes on a serious note I would recommend everyone go learn c as a
> minimum. But if you just want to have some serious fun go mad with
> ruby/macruby. The learning will come by doing.
> >>>
> >>> Terry Moore
> >>>
> >>> On 31/03/2011, at 11:41 PM, "Thomas R. Koll" 
> wrote:
> >>>
> 
>  Am 31.03.2011 um 10:26 schrieb Jean-Denis Muys:
> >
> > I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.
> 
>  I say, if you don't know either Ruby or Objective-C yet, stay away
> from MacRuby.
> 
>  All those ruby dev who like me are most likely coming from
> webdevelopment,
>  dive into this new world of desktop applications. It's a fascinating
> world.
> 
> 
> > - Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books,
> less blog posts, less people to help you out.
> 
>  Which is great if you are able and willing to fill those gaps.
>  Open Source is not only about using what exists but also to
>  add something new to it.
>  Over time you will get deeper and more profund understanding.
> 
> 
> > Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you.
> And if for you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.
> 
>  +1
> 
> 
> > - One thing is for sure: demand for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.
> 
>  Which might be subject to change.
>  Don't forget, the only two things keeping MacRuby from iOS is
>  the lack of a garbage collector and the App Store policy about
>  programming languages.
>  Both in the hands of Apple, just like MacRuby itself.
> 
> 
> 
>  ___
>  MacRuby-devel mailing list
>  [email protected]
>  http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
> >>> ___
> >>> MacRuby-devel mailing list
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
> >>
> >> ___
> >> MacRuby-devel mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
> > __

Re: [MacRuby-devel] MacRuby-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 51

2011-03-31 Thread Terry Moore 
Interesting... a nice reference for all those bridgesupport method parameters :)

Its nice but not what hit me about ruby... especially this   
http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/   persevere until dwemthy's array.  
classes inhereting from a functions   gave me a headache :)

I have gone from being hunched up and worried about types etc. to being very 
relaxed and froody... I'm not even sure I could go back to adding semi colons 
to the end of a line :)

Terry
On 1/04/2011, at 9:23 AM, Matt Massicotte wrote:

> On Mar 31, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Terry Moore wrote:
> 
>> I for one would like to see some examples of objc meta programming. 
> 
> Here's a good place to start looking.
> 
> http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ObjCRuntimeGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html
> 
> In particular, there are functions you can use for generating classes and 
> methods at runtime, including modifying classes already present.  Though, 
> that's often done much more easily using categories.  You can even do 
> method_missing-style magic, but not nearly as nicely as in Ruby.
> 
>> 
>> Standard ruby is built with c are you saying c has some meta programming 
>> capabilities because of this.
>> 
>> An example like attr_accessor. I know objc 2 now has properties.
>> 
>> I also know some aspects of ruby are scary 'eval' and re opening classes but 
>> can you load objc source compile and run it aka 'eval'. 
>> 
>> All I'm trying to say here is that ruby has a place and with the macruby 
>> implementation you have nothing to lose by trying some ruby.  Mix it up a 
>> little and have some fun too.
>> 
>> Terry Moore
>> 
>> On 1/04/2011, at 7:59 AM, Matt Massicotte  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Terry Moore wrote:
>>> 
 Well it would appear that Macruby is just not ready for real development. 
 
 I for one have some faith that Macruby is good enough now and will be 
 language of choice in the future. 
 
 There are no barriers to you mixing external frameworks or adding objc 
 classes.
 
 Ruby as a language has many features that you can grow into that objc 
 doesn't ( meta programming). 
>>> 
>>> This has come up more than once today.  ObjC is capable of a lot more 
>>> meta-programming than people are giving it credit for.  The Objective-C 
>>> runtime is, afterall, what MacRuby is built on.  However, Ruby's 
>>> meta-programming support is significantly simpler, making it easier to both 
>>> use and abuse :)
>>> 
 
 If you use a standard version of ruby there is nothing to stop even a c 
 hacker using 'the latest' libraries and putting a simple wrapper on.
 
 Ruby has become an umbrella for all my work from admin support to web 
 development. And now with macruby I have desktop apps for Mac.
 
 Not forgetting jruby of course for any java fans and others like ruinous.
 
 
 So yes on a serious note I would recommend everyone go learn c as a 
 minimum. But if you just want to have some serious fun go mad with 
 ruby/macruby. The learning will come by doing.
 
 Terry Moore
 
 On 31/03/2011, at 11:41 PM, "Thomas R. Koll"  wrote:
 
> 
> Am 31.03.2011 um 10:26 schrieb Jean-Denis Muys:
>> 
>> I will be blunt: stay away from MacRuby and go with Objective-C.
> 
> I say, if you don't know either Ruby or Objective-C yet, stay away from 
> MacRuby.
> 
> All those ruby dev who like me are most likely coming from webdevelopment,
> dive into this new world of desktop applications. It's a fascinating 
> world.
> 
> 
>> - Less applicable resources for learning: less examples, less books, 
>> less blog posts, less people to help you out.
> 
> Which is great if you are able and willing to fill those gaps.
> Open Source is not only about using what exists but also to
> add something new to it.
> Over time you will get deeper and more profund understanding.
> 
> 
>> Now the MacRuby journey might taste a lot better, depending on you. And 
>> if for you "the reward is the _journey_", you might consider it.
> 
> +1
> 
> 
>> - One thing is for sure: demand for iOS Ruby programmers is zero.
> 
> Which might be subject to change.
> Don't forget, the only two things keeping MacRuby from iOS is
> the lack of a garbage collector and the App Store policy about
> programming languages.
> Both in the hands of Apple, just like MacRuby itself.
> 
> 
> 
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