Re: Apple App Store Refunds for inaccessible Apps
I agree that providing refunds for inaccessible apps would be a good policy, but I accept that there would have to be some limitations. Firstly, sometimes what one person says is inaccessible, another person claims is accessible. Sometimes things are only accessible once you learn how to use them. Secondly, accessibility is often a matter of degree, not a matter of absolutes. Thirdly, what if a developer makes his or her app accessible after a user has received a refund, will they then have to pay again? Fourthly, Apple doesn't know whether we really are blind or not, and only takes us at our word. This means that the whole process is vulnerable to abuse, and I'm not surprised Apple makes these decisions on a case-by-case basis, rather than a simple blanket policy that anyone can have a refund if they say the app is inaccessible. One thing in particular I imagine they look at, and rightly so, is how frequently you request a refund on this basis. I imagine if it's a one off, or if you buy lots of apps without asking for refunds, they'll be more happy to refund the money. If, however, you frequently ask for refunds they might be reluctant. Especially if it's an expensive app, I think it's probably prudent to contact the developer first or make some other enquiries to check whether the app is accessible before purchasing it. With regard to making accessibility mandatory, I agree with Josh de Lioncourt from Maccessibility.net that it's not a good idea. Do you want it to be mandatory that apps are accessible only for people who are blind or have low vision, or for anyone with a disability? Clearly it would be discriminatory to make them accessible for people who are blind or have low vision, but not for people with other disabilities. If they are to be accessible to people whatever their disability, do you realise how many apps we use on a day-to-day basis would fail this test? There are plenty of apps we use – e.g. audio games, braille typing apps etc – which would not be accessible to people who are deaf or have other disabilities. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a blind developer, for instance, to make their audio game accessible to deaf people. Moreover, there are plenty of mainstream apps, and I'm thinking here particularly of games, which it would just be impossible to make completely accessible for someone who is blind. Many games require just too much speed in hand-eye coordination for a blind person to use; and in many instances it wouldn't be worth making these apps accessible. Sometimes, sadly, it's just not possible for someone who is blind to do the same things as someone who can see. In these instances, we're better off with a specialised solution rather than making the mainstream app accessible. Then there are other problems with mandatory accessibility. What would the standard of accessibility be? Does every single feature need to be accessible, or only some, or only most? Does it need to be blind user friendly, or only possible to use? What happens if one blind person says the app is accessible, but another says it's not accessible? Can you imagine how much the app approval process would be slowed down if every single app and update needed to be thoroughly tested by a VoiceOver user? Developers already complain that Apple is slow in approving apps. But it wouldn't just have to be tested by a VoiceOver user, it would also need to be tested by deaf users, people with motor disabilities etc. This is not to say that the process couldn't be improved. I think we could find a middle road. I suspect that the best solution would simply be for Apple to allow demos of any app in the App Store. If we could simply test an app before buying it, we wouldn't have this problem. Moreover, this solution would likely be welcomed by both users and developers. Nic -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Apple App Store Refunds for inaccessible Apps
Nick, I didn't think about the process this way but you made some darn good points. I'd like to see the middle of the road approach you suggest. On 09/12/13 05:40, Nicholas Parsons wrote: I agree that providing refunds for inaccessible apps would be a good policy, but I accept that there would have to be some limitations. Firstly, sometimes what one person says is inaccessible, another person claims is accessible. Sometimes things are only accessible once you learn how to use them. Secondly, accessibility is often a matter of degree, not a matter of absolutes. Thirdly, what if a developer makes his or her app accessible after a user has received a refund, will they then have to pay again? Fourthly, Apple doesn't know whether we really are blind or not, and only takes us at our word. This means that the whole process is vulnerable to abuse, and I'm not surprised Apple makes these decisions on a case-by-case basis, rather than a simple blanket policy that anyone can have a refund if they say the app is inaccessible. One thing in particular I imagine they look at, and rightly so, is how frequently you request a refund on this basis. I imagine if it's a one off, or if you buy lots of apps without asking for refunds, they'll be more happy to refund the money. If, however, you frequently ask for refunds they might be reluctant. Especially if it's an expensive app, I think it's probably prudent to contact the developer first or make some other enquiries to check whether the app is accessible before purchasing it. With regard to making accessibility mandatory, I agree with Josh de Lioncourt from Maccessibility.net that it's not a good idea. Do you want it to be mandatory that apps are accessible only for people who are blind or have low vision, or for anyone with a disability? Clearly it would be discriminatory to make them accessible for people who are blind or have low vision, but not for people with other disabilities. If they are to be accessible to people whatever their disability, do you realise how many apps we use on a day-to-day basis would fail this test? There are plenty of apps we use – e.g. audio games, braille typing apps etc – which would not be accessible to people who are deaf or have other disabilities. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a blind developer, for instance, to make their audio game accessible to deaf people. Moreover, there are plenty of mainstream apps, and I'm thinking here particularly of games, which it would just be impossible to make completely accessible for someone who is blind. Many games require just too much speed in hand-eye coordination for a blind person to use; and in many instances it wouldn't be worth making these apps accessible. Sometimes, sadly, it's just not possible for someone who is blind to do the same things as someone who can see. In these instances, we're better off with a specialised solution rather than making the mainstream app accessible. Then there are other problems with mandatory accessibility. What would the standard of accessibility be? Does every single feature need to be accessible, or only some, or only most? Does it need to be blind user friendly, or only possible to use? What happens if one blind person says the app is accessible, but another says it's not accessible? Can you imagine how much the app approval process would be slowed down if every single app and update needed to be thoroughly tested by a VoiceOver user? Developers already complain that Apple is slow in approving apps. But it wouldn't just have to be tested by a VoiceOver user, it would also need to be tested by deaf users, people with motor disabilities etc. This is not to say that the process couldn't be improved. I think we could find a middle road. I suspect that the best solution would simply be for Apple to allow demos of any app in the App Store. If we could simply test an app before buying it, we wouldn't have this problem. Moreover, this solution would likely be welcomed by both users and developers. Nic -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Getting to Disk Utilities in 10.84
From the finder the shortcut to the utilities folder is command-shift-U. Apps is command-shift-A. You can find these and many others by exploring the Go item in the Finder menubar. As Daniel said, you shouldn't need the utility to get a properly formatted thumb drive to mount. Should just pop up on your desktop after a few seconds when you plug it in. CB On 9/11/13 10:52 PM, Daniel C wrote: Hi there, You shouldn't need to as it will mount when it's plugged in. nevertheless, look under utilities, and disk utility will be there. -- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Sharing VO Speech over a Skype or VOIP Call
I'm sure there is a digital way but in the past I did this with a small external mixer. I ran the audio out from the Mac to the mixer and ran my mic to the mixer and then ran the mixer output back to the line in on the Mac. I set up Skype to then use the line in as it's audio input. This allowed me to mix the levels on the fly a bit between the mic and voiceover. Actually went a step farther and ran Jaws in a VM on the Mac so I could demo stuff on both platforms. Worked well and I liked having the external controls to tweak things. CB On 9/12/13 1:41 AM, Steve Holmes wrote: I plan to give a demo / teach session over a VOIP or Skype call where I want to allow the participants in the call to hear the output from VoiceOver on my Mac. Is there any way to do this with Mountain Lion? I have Audio Hijack Pro here but am lead to believe that VO can't be shared with Skype or similar applications. I know how to do recordings from Audio Hijack Pro but I don't wanna necessarily record but would rather have the output directed to the input side of the VOIP or Skype application I use. Might Sound Flower be in order for this kind of thing? -- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: File locked or write protected
Hi, You can determine how the drive is formatted by navigating to it while in the Finder, then press cmd-i to Get Info on it. It will tell you everything you need to know and more. If you do a Google search on writing to NTFS from a Mac, you'll get a number of responses that can help. If you're comfortable with Terminal and the command line, this article introduces an interesting solution: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57588773-263/how-to-manually-enable-ntfs-read-and-write-in-os-x/ HTH. Later... Tim Kilburn Fort McMurray, AB Canada On 2013-09-11, at 10:09 PM, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. freethau...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Tim, That might be the case. How do I determine how the drive is formatted, and what third party app will I need? Thanks, Antonio On Sep 9, 2013, at 12:30 AM, Tim Kilburn kilbur...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm guessing that the external HD is formatted NTFS and the Mac won't write to an NTFS drive without a third party app. Later... Tim Kilburn Fort McMurray, AB Canada On 2013-09-08, at 5:35 PM, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. freethau...@gmail.com wrote: I connected an external hard drive to my Mac. I created all content on this drive in Windows. I am trying to open an RTF file and edit, but I get a dialogue first saying the file is locked, then when I unlock it, it says the file is write protected. Anyway I can utilize this file without duplicating? Antonio -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Any dashboard fans?
Hi all, Are there any fans users of dashboard? If you aren't a user, have you gone as far as killing it? I found instructions the other day on opening up terminal killing dashboard. Just curious. I've tried to like it, but it just hasn't happened. Lol! Traci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Mavericks
Mid october. On Sep 12, 2013, at 5:35 PM, Krysti happypuppy...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know the release date for apples new OS Sent from my iPhone -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Mavericks
Does anyone know the release date for apples new OS Sent from my iPhone -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Mavericks
Apparently late october. Matt Dierckens matt.dierck...@gmail.com IOS and Macintosh User support, Windsor area Sight Substitution Centre On 2013-09-12, at 6:35 PM, Krysti happypuppy...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know the release date for apples new OS Sent from my iPhone -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Activities now switching well
Hi all, Is there some sort of bug with VoiceOver activities? I have set up a couple and most of the time they don't switch properly. For example, when VO should switch back to my default activity default voice, it often sounds like it is switching to Austrailian Lee. I like Lee, but that is beside the point. My default voice is Samantha compact. Any suggestions? Traci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Apple App Store Refunds for inaccessible Apps
Nick does make some good points, but in my email to Apple Accessibility and in my phone call, I was sure to mention this. I explained that the accessibility would be required where possible, so visual games and other apps would not have to be made vo-friendly. Apps that use Apple's UI elements, or at least subclass them, would have to, though, since that is a matter of the developer not ordering/labeling/flagging things appropriately. Yes, other disabilities exist than just sight. However, the same principle applies: apps need only be made accessible where feasible. For instance, MBraille would not work well for someone with one hand, and it would not makes sense for that app to change since it would lose its ultimate purpose, just as Plants Versus Zombies would lose its overall design if it were forced to be vo-accessible. Yes, app demos would probably be the very best solution, but Apple has not budged on that policy ever since the App Store launched. Pretty much every user, not just disabled ones, want demos, and there is no technical reason I know of why Apple could not make that happen. I worry about an accessibility rating system, since, as others have said, accessibility is such a subjective thing. What I, as someone who has used VO for nearly three years, consider perfectly accessible might make no sense to a relativley new user, or even someone with my experience but a different mindset. While a systme to rate accessibility would be good, I worry that it would be too subjective to make a real difference. After all, how many three-star apps have you downloaded only to have them be great, or horrible? Even Apple's own Apple Store app has just three stars, but it works just fine. I've taken to practically ignoring the rating of an app because I don't feel it is an accurate reflection of the quality of the app. On 9/12/13, Scott Berry sb356...@gmail.com wrote: Nick, I didn't think about the process this way but you made some darn good points. I'd like to see the middle of the road approach you suggest. On 09/12/13 05:40, Nicholas Parsons wrote: I agree that providing refunds for inaccessible apps would be a good policy, but I accept that there would have to be some limitations. Firstly, sometimes what one person says is inaccessible, another person claims is accessible. Sometimes things are only accessible once you learn how to use them. Secondly, accessibility is often a matter of degree, not a matter of absolutes. Thirdly, what if a developer makes his or her app accessible after a user has received a refund, will they then have to pay again? Fourthly, Apple doesn't know whether we really are blind or not, and only takes us at our word. This means that the whole process is vulnerable to abuse, and I'm not surprised Apple makes these decisions on a case-by-case basis, rather than a simple blanket policy that anyone can have a refund if they say the app is inaccessible. One thing in particular I imagine they look at, and rightly so, is how frequently you request a refund on this basis. I imagine if it's a one off, or if you buy lots of apps without asking for refunds, they'll be more happy to refund the money. If, however, you frequently ask for refunds they might be reluctant. Especially if it's an expensive app, I think it's probably prudent to contact the developer first or make some other enquiries to check whether the app is accessible before purchasing it. With regard to making accessibility mandatory, I agree with Josh de Lioncourt from Maccessibility.net that it's not a good idea. Do you want it to be mandatory that apps are accessible only for people who are blind or have low vision, or for anyone with a disability? Clearly it would be discriminatory to make them accessible for people who are blind or have low vision, but not for people with other disabilities. If they are to be accessible to people whatever their disability, do you realise how many apps we use on a day-to-day basis would fail this test? There are plenty of apps we use – e.g. audio games, braille typing apps etc – which would not be accessible to people who are deaf or have other disabilities. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a blind developer, for instance, to make their audio game accessible to deaf people. Moreover, there are plenty of mainstream apps, and I'm thinking here particularly of games, which it would just be impossible to make completely accessible for someone who is blind. Many games require just too much speed in hand-eye coordination for a blind person to use; and in many instances it wouldn't be worth making these apps accessible. Sometimes, sadly, it's just not possible for someone who is blind to do the same things as someone who can see. In these instances, we're better off with a specialised solution rather than making the mainstream app accessible. Then there are other problems with mandatory accessibility. What would the
Re: filter Finder list by file type?
Not at all, I am familiar with command line commands but often forget they exist. :) Still, I was hoping to take action on each file individually (move some to one place and some to another) so I wanted just a list of .epub files (or any other file type). I could use the ls command, but it gets combersome to type in the name I want for every file instead of just cmd-c. Still, the terminal may work in may cases, and would certainly help in moving all Bard books... mv DB-*.zip books On 9/12/13, Steve Holmes steve.holme...@gmail.com wrote: Hell, the geek in me says to go into the Terminal app and cd into the Download folder and do whatever with the book files by saying *.epub. Like you could copy all apubs some place by saying cp *.epub books where books is the folder you want to copy them to. If you want to move them instead of copying, just replace cp with mv. Sorry if this is too geeky or cumbersome but I love the Unix command line:). On Sep 8, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com wrote: Good idea, that seems to work. I had to hit cmd-2 first, since I usually use column view which is a list and not a table, but after that it worked well enough. Thanks. On Sep 8, 2013, at 5:24 PM, Traci Duncan our4p...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, AS I see it, there is 2 ways you could do this. 1. When you're interacting with the table, hit VO-Shift-backslash, then VO-right-arrow to move over to type. Press VO-space to sort via file type. Press VO-shift-backslash to get out of the table sorting options. This will show the finder window alphabetized by file type. You're other option is to use search and search for .ePub files. Hope this is helpful, Traci On Sep 8, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Often, especially in the downloads folder, I would like to be able to tell Finder what file extension I'm looking for and have it show only those files. For instance, I just downloaded several books, all .epub files. Can I somehow tell Finder to show only .epub files, so I can work with just those files? I could hack together a script to do this, sort of, but I'd much rather have a native solution. Thanks. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Any dashboard fans?
Hi, I use dashboard multiple times a day. I find it to be the easiest way to quickly access sports scores and the local weather on the Mac. I even found nice metronome widget. hth Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Sep 12, 2013, at 3:02 PM, Traci Duncan our4p...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Are there any fans users of dashboard? If you aren't a user, have you gone as far as killing it? I found instructions the other day on opening up terminal killing dashboard. Just curious. I've tried to like it, but it just hasn't happened. Lol! Traci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
OS10.8.5 is out
Hi all, Apple released OS10.8.5 today. I have not yet installed it, but if anyone has (or when you do), I'm wondering if they slipped any accessibility fixes in. The release notest make no mention of any such changes, but they sometimes fix things without saying anything about it. So, if you notice anything, let the list know! -- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Any dashboard fans?
I've never gotten into it. You have to bring it up, then vo-f2 twice just to list your tiles, then open your tile and try to use it. I have not yet found good tiles, though I admit I did not look too hard. Am I missing something? On 9/12/13, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I use dashboard multiple times a day. I find it to be the easiest way to quickly access sports scores and the local weather on the Mac. I even found nice metronome widget. hth Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Sep 12, 2013, at 3:02 PM, Traci Duncan our4p...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Are there any fans users of dashboard? If you aren't a user, have you gone as far as killing it? I found instructions the other day on opening up terminal killing dashboard. Just curious. I've tried to like it, but it just hasn't happened. Lol! Traci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Apple App Store Refunds for inaccessible Apps
If visual games does not need to be accessible, i wonder how manuy people will crying over Solara not being accessible then? Solara is a visual game, with accessibility build in on it. Perhaps, some foolish thinking that developer develop Solara for only the vips and the blind community, however, it is not true. In fact, if you look at the visual elimants of the game, there are activities around your building each and every moment when you connected, e.g. people walking around etc. If blind people have the concept that just because things are visual, and that does not need to be accessible and if Apple do follow the concept, i think, iPhone won't be as accessible and successful as it is. With Apple AppsStore, you can search voiceover as your keyword search. The result is quite amazing as to what you can get there. Of course, like anything, any apps that have voiceover mention on it will appear. By then, is about each and every individual as to what they look for, and what they search for. On 13/09/2013, Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com wrote: Nick does make some good points, but in my email to Apple Accessibility and in my phone call, I was sure to mention this. I explained that the accessibility would be required where possible, so visual games and other apps would not have to be made vo-friendly. Apps that use Apple's UI elements, or at least subclass them, would have to, though, since that is a matter of the developer not ordering/labeling/flagging things appropriately. Yes, other disabilities exist than just sight. However, the same principle applies: apps need only be made accessible where feasible. For instance, MBraille would not work well for someone with one hand, and it would not makes sense for that app to change since it would lose its ultimate purpose, just as Plants Versus Zombies would lose its overall design if it were forced to be vo-accessible. Yes, app demos would probably be the very best solution, but Apple has not budged on that policy ever since the App Store launched. Pretty much every user, not just disabled ones, want demos, and there is no technical reason I know of why Apple could not make that happen. I worry about an accessibility rating system, since, as others have said, accessibility is such a subjective thing. What I, as someone who has used VO for nearly three years, consider perfectly accessible might make no sense to a relativley new user, or even someone with my experience but a different mindset. While a systme to rate accessibility would be good, I worry that it would be too subjective to make a real difference. After all, how many three-star apps have you downloaded only to have them be great, or horrible? Even Apple's own Apple Store app has just three stars, but it works just fine. I've taken to practically ignoring the rating of an app because I don't feel it is an accurate reflection of the quality of the app. On 9/12/13, Scott Berry sb356...@gmail.com wrote: Nick, I didn't think about the process this way but you made some darn good points. I'd like to see the middle of the road approach you suggest. On 09/12/13 05:40, Nicholas Parsons wrote: I agree that providing refunds for inaccessible apps would be a good policy, but I accept that there would have to be some limitations. Firstly, sometimes what one person says is inaccessible, another person claims is accessible. Sometimes things are only accessible once you learn how to use them. Secondly, accessibility is often a matter of degree, not a matter of absolutes. Thirdly, what if a developer makes his or her app accessible after a user has received a refund, will they then have to pay again? Fourthly, Apple doesn't know whether we really are blind or not, and only takes us at our word. This means that the whole process is vulnerable to abuse, and I'm not surprised Apple makes these decisions on a case-by-case basis, rather than a simple blanket policy that anyone can have a refund if they say the app is inaccessible. One thing in particular I imagine they look at, and rightly so, is how frequently you request a refund on this basis. I imagine if it's a one off, or if you buy lots of apps without asking for refunds, they'll be more happy to refund the money. If, however, you frequently ask for refunds they might be reluctant. Especially if it's an expensive app, I think it's probably prudent to contact the developer first or make some other enquiries to check whether the app is accessible before purchasing it. With regard to making accessibility mandatory, I agree with Josh de Lioncourt from Maccessibility.net that it's not a good idea. Do you want it to be mandatory that apps are accessible only for people who are blind or have low vision, or for anyone with a disability? Clearly it would be discriminatory to make them accessible for people who are blind or have low vision, but not for people with other disabilities. If they are to be
Re: Apple App Store Refunds for inaccessible Apps
Would be nice to have a way to give an accessibility 'star rating' for apps that would get aggregated. So I could then search/sort apps from most to least accessible from user feedback just like any other kind of rating system. That covers the issue around accessible being just a true/false checkbox and hopefully the wisdom of crowds would average out any outlier. Of course that means new apps are still going to have no accessibility rating, just as they initially have no user reviews. CB On 9/12/13 7:40 AM, Nicholas Parsons wrote: I agree that providing refunds for inaccessible apps would be a good policy, but I accept that there would have to be some limitations. Firstly, sometimes what one person says is inaccessible, another person claims is accessible. Sometimes things are only accessible once you learn how to use them. Secondly, accessibility is often a matter of degree, not a matter of absolutes. Thirdly, what if a developer makes his or her app accessible after a user has received a refund, will they then have to pay again? Fourthly, Apple doesn't know whether we really are blind or not, and only takes us at our word. This means that the whole process is vulnerable to abuse, and I'm not surprised Apple makes these decisions on a case-by-case basis, rather than a simple blanket policy that anyone can have a refund if they say the app is inaccessible. One thing in particular I imagine they look at, and rightly so, is how frequently you request a refund on this basis. I imagine if it's a one off, or if you buy lots of apps without asking for refunds, they'll be more happy to refund the money. If, however, you frequently ask for refunds they might be reluctant. Especially if it's an expensive app, I think it's probably prudent to contact the developer first or make some other enquiries to check whether the app is accessible before purchasing it. With regard to making accessibility mandatory, I agree with Josh de Lioncourt from Maccessibility.net that it's not a good idea. Do you want it to be mandatory that apps are accessible only for people who are blind or have low vision, or for anyone with a disability? Clearly it would be discriminatory to make them accessible for people who are blind or have low vision, but not for people with other disabilities. If they are to be accessible to people whatever their disability, do you realise how many apps we use on a day-to-day basis would fail this test? There are plenty of apps we use – e.g. audio games, braille typing apps etc – which would not be accessible to people who are deaf or have other disabilities. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a blind developer, for instance, to make their audio game accessible to deaf people. Moreover, there are plenty of mainstream apps, and I'm thinking here particularly of games, which it would just be impossible to make completely accessible for someone who is blind. Many games require just too much speed in hand-eye coordination for a blind person to use; and in many instances it wouldn't be worth making these apps accessible. Sometimes, sadly, it's just not possible for someone who is blind to do the same things as someone who can see. In these instances, we're better off with a specialised solution rather than making the mainstream app accessible. Then there are other problems with mandatory accessibility. What would the standard of accessibility be? Does every single feature need to be accessible, or only some, or only most? Does it need to be blind user friendly, or only possible to use? What happens if one blind person says the app is accessible, but another says it's not accessible? Can you imagine how much the app approval process would be slowed down if every single app and update needed to be thoroughly tested by a VoiceOver user? Developers already complain that Apple is slow in approving apps. But it wouldn't just have to be tested by a VoiceOver user, it would also need to be tested by deaf users, people with motor disabilities etc. This is not to say that the process couldn't be improved. I think we could find a middle road. I suspect that the best solution would simply be for Apple to allow demos of any app in the App Store. If we could simply test an app before buying it, we wouldn't have this problem. Moreover, this solution would likely be welcomed by both users and developers. Nic -- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
