Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[lenron brown]

Well the cheepest 1 tb drive is $649 and I think that was one that
they opened to test. I am speaking for the late 2013 model and later.
The 2012 Macbook pro could use the older ssd and they are a lot
cheeper. The Cheepest 500 gb ssd goes for 379 and I think that is a
drive they tested as well Brandnew is 450.

On 6/4/17, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:
> To figure out exactly which drive fits which computer they have an
> online upgrade matching page here:
>
> https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/
>
> So they would need your exact model identifier, such as MacBookPro 12,1,
> in About This Mac then System Report. The one I was citing is here:
>
> https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/Y3SSD6E960/
>
> It replaces the 2.5" spinning disk drive with an SSD of a similar shape.
>
> CB
>
> On 6/4/17 11:16 PM, lenron brown wrote:
>> Is this the drive for the 2015 and 2014 MBP, and would you happen to
>> have a link to it? 1 tb for 380 is not so bad considering the fact
>> that this drive on some places is close to $900.
>>
>> On 6/4/17, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
>>  wrote:
>>> My wife upgraded her MacBook from a 500GB regular drive to a 1TB SSD. I
>>> got the Other World Computing bundle which included the special
>>> screwdrivers to take her laptop apart, a USB external drive case to put
>>> her old drive in and the new 1TB SSD. That kit is currently $389. I
>>> probably could have found the raw drive and such cheaper elsewhere but I
>>> knew the OWC set would work.
>>>
>>> CB
>>>
>>> On 6/4/17 5:34 PM, gary-melconian wrote:
 Where are you getting that  price tag  for ssd drives . I just upgrade
 a
 machine with a ssd 512 for $200 .it was one of the brand nname ones. I
 picked it up off of amazon.

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lenron brown
 Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 12:11 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

 Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer
 can
 last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to another. I
 mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me almost 300 for
 a
 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even include if I have to
 get
 someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I could get it done for nothing
 but that upgrade is pretty much the price for building a computer. Hope
 to
 see some nice stuff from wwdc though.

 On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't
> a few months ago when I got a new one.
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>
>> I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a
>> laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.
>>
>> --
>> Alex Hall
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is
>>> fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or
>>> does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>>
>>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gena
>>>
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu 
 wrote:

 My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>
> Regards,
>
> Gena
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Scott.
>>
>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>>
>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple
>> watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money
>> to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if
>> the third Gen is better than the second Gen.
>>
>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch
>> bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't
>> have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as
>> both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be
>> getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will
>> purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going
>> strong and as long as I can run the latest 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

To figure out exactly which drive fits which computer they have an 
online upgrade matching page here:


https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/

So they would need your exact model identifier, such as MacBookPro 12,1, 
in About This Mac then System Report. The one I was citing is here:


https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/Y3SSD6E960/

It replaces the 2.5" spinning disk drive with an SSD of a similar shape.

CB

On 6/4/17 11:16 PM, lenron brown wrote:

Is this the drive for the 2015 and 2014 MBP, and would you happen to
have a link to it? 1 tb for 380 is not so bad considering the fact
that this drive on some places is close to $900.

On 6/4/17, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:

My wife upgraded her MacBook from a 500GB regular drive to a 1TB SSD. I
got the Other World Computing bundle which included the special
screwdrivers to take her laptop apart, a USB external drive case to put
her old drive in and the new 1TB SSD. That kit is currently $389. I
probably could have found the raw drive and such cheaper elsewhere but I
knew the OWC set would work.

CB

On 6/4/17 5:34 PM, gary-melconian wrote:

Where are you getting that  price tag  for ssd drives . I just upgrade  a
machine with a ssd 512 for $200 .it was one of the brand nname ones. I
picked it up off of amazon.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lenron brown
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 12:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer can
last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to another. I
mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me almost 300 for a
256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even include if I have to get
someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I could get it done for nothing
but that upgrade is pretty much the price for building a computer. Hope to
see some nice stuff from wwdc though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't
a few months ago when I got a new one.

On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a
laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.

--
Alex Hall





On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is
fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or
does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?

As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

Regards,

Gena


On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

My MacMini is a 2014 model.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?

Regards,

Gena

On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu 
wrote:

Hi Scott.

A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.

After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple
watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money
to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if
the third Gen is better than the second Gen.

Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch
bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't
have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as
both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be
getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will
purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going
strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then
it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be
able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy
another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do
that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able
to!

Kawal.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados

wrote:

I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone
a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016
latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor
now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s
something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.
Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of
physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri
and also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up
starting Siri when you want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it
does on the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[lenron brown]

Is this the drive for the 2015 and 2014 MBP, and would you happen to
have a link to it? 1 tb for 380 is not so bad considering the fact
that this drive on some places is close to $900.

On 6/4/17, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:
> My wife upgraded her MacBook from a 500GB regular drive to a 1TB SSD. I
> got the Other World Computing bundle which included the special
> screwdrivers to take her laptop apart, a USB external drive case to put
> her old drive in and the new 1TB SSD. That kit is currently $389. I
> probably could have found the raw drive and such cheaper elsewhere but I
> knew the OWC set would work.
>
> CB
>
> On 6/4/17 5:34 PM, gary-melconian wrote:
>> Where are you getting that  price tag  for ssd drives . I just upgrade  a
>> machine with a ssd 512 for $200 .it was one of the brand nname ones. I
>> picked it up off of amazon.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lenron brown
>> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 12:11 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
>>
>> Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer can
>> last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to another. I
>> mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me almost 300 for a
>> 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even include if I have to get
>> someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I could get it done for nothing
>> but that upgrade is pretty much the price for building a computer. Hope to
>> see some nice stuff from wwdc though.
>>
>> On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't
>>> a few months ago when I got a new one.
 On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

 I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a
 laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.

 --
 Alex Hall




> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is
> fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or
> does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>
> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gena
>
>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>
>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gena
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu 
 wrote:

 Hi Scott.

 A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
 convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.

 After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple
 watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money
 to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if
 the third Gen is better than the second Gen.

 Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch
 bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't
 have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as
 both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be
 getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will
 purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going
 strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then
 it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be
 able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy
 another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do
 that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able
 to!

 Kawal.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados
> 
> wrote:
>
> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone
> a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016
> latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor
> now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s
> something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.
> Reasons are as follows.
>   The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of
> physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri
> and also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up
> starting 

Re: An Unexpected iOS App Store VoiceOver Bug

[Michelle's Home Emails]

Hi Taylor 

Michelle stevens here, 

Same happened with me, I thought I was doing something wrong. I had a response 
from Microsoft with "their new version of office 365 for iphone. 

Best wishes 
Michelle 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 3 Jun 2017, at 3:46 am, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I am not certain if this has been discussed, on-list, but yesterday, I
> received a developer reply to my latest review.  
> 
> Even though the text of the reply was on-screen, VoiceOver would not read
> the text of the reply but only that of my original review.
> 
> I have reported this to Apple and, hopefully, this very unexpected VoiceOver
> bug will be addressed in a future release of the OS.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: Vo-shift-home or end does not take e me to the end of text

[E.T.]

Ramy,
   Press VO-k for keyboard help and look for the FN key. On these 
keyboards you need to use some shortcuts with that key.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 7:35 PM, Ramy Moustafa wrote:

Hello Alex:
Thanks so much Am using a full keyboard, so i have home and end. and all are 
working outside documents, but inside documents, can not go to the first letter 
on the document, by using the Vo-shift-home
why is htis/


On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

You want function-vo-shift-left or right. If you have physical home/end keys, 
don't worry about the function key.

The main thing to do, though, is interact with the text field first. The 
keystrokes you described move you in whatever you're in, be it a window, 
webpage, table, etc. Far easier for text fields is to just use command-up or 
down, instead of worrying about VO commands.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 4, 2017, at 20:45, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:

Hello:

I’m Using the Full size mac Keyboard,  when i’m inside the text edit, using, 
the Vo-shift-home or end tones not take me to the start or end of my document.
any ideas?
Thanks in advance

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Re: Vo-shift-home or end does not take e me to the end of text

[Ramy Moustafa]

Hello Alex:
Thanks so much Am using a full keyboard, so i have home and end. and all are 
working outside documents, but inside documents, can not go to the first letter 
on the document, by using the Vo-shift-home
why is htis/

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> You want function-vo-shift-left or right. If you have physical home/end keys, 
> don't worry about the function key.
> 
> The main thing to do, though, is interact with the text field first. The 
> keystrokes you described move you in whatever you're in, be it a window, 
> webpage, table, etc. Far easier for text fields is to just use command-up or 
> down, instead of worrying about VO commands.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 20:45, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello:
>> 
>> I’m Using the Full size mac Keyboard,  when i’m inside the text edit, using, 
>> the Vo-shift-home or end tones not take me to the start or end of my 
>> document.
>> any ideas?
>> Thanks in advance 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

My wife upgraded her MacBook from a 500GB regular drive to a 1TB SSD. I 
got the Other World Computing bundle which included the special 
screwdrivers to take her laptop apart, a USB external drive case to put 
her old drive in and the new 1TB SSD. That kit is currently $389. I 
probably could have found the raw drive and such cheaper elsewhere but I 
knew the OWC set would work.


CB

On 6/4/17 5:34 PM, gary-melconian wrote:

Where are you getting that  price tag  for ssd drives . I just upgrade  a 
machine with a ssd 512 for $200 .it was one of the brand nname ones. I picked 
it up off of amazon.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of lenron brown
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 12:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer can last 
because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to another. I mean it's 
bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me almost 300 for a 256 or 500 
dollars for the 512. That doesn't even include if I have to get someone else to 
do it. I mean I am sure I could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is 
pretty much the price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from 
wwdc though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't
a few months ago when I got a new one.

On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a
laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.

--
Alex Hall





On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is
fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or
does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?

As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

Regards,

Gena


On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

My MacMini is a 2014 model.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?

Regards,

Gena

On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Hi Scott.

A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.

After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple
watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money
to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if
the third Gen is better than the second Gen.

Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch
bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't
have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as
both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be
getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will
purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going
strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then
it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be
able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy
another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do
that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!

Kawal.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados

wrote:

I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone
a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016
latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor
now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s
something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.
Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of
physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri
and also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up
starting Siri when you want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it
does on the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my
previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now
uses USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The
lightning ports on all the phones and other devices feel just
like USB-C with a slight size difference so I’m for ever using
the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included cables
with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit
in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of
3.5 MM jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so
you have to use different headphones.
The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s
very fast and the new 

Re: Vo-shift-home or end does not take e me to the end of text

[Alex Hall]

You want function-vo-shift-left or right. If you have physical home/end keys, 
don't worry about the function key.

The main thing to do, though, is interact with the text field first. The 
keystrokes you described move you in whatever you're in, be it a window, 
webpage, table, etc. Far easier for text fields is to just use command-up or 
down, instead of worrying about VO commands.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 20:45, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Hello:
> 
> I’m Using the Full size mac Keyboard,  when i’m inside the text edit, using, 
> the Vo-shift-home or end tones not take me to the start or end of my document.
> any ideas?
> Thanks in advance 
> 
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Re: Vo-shift-home or end does not take e me to the end of text

[Michelle's Home Emails]

Hi Ramy 

Michelle stevens here, 

I think you have to use the fn key as well as the VO keys with your left, right 
up down arrows? 

Michelle 


Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Jun 2017, at 10:45 am, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Hello:
> 
> I’m Using the Full size mac Keyboard,  when i’m inside the text edit, using, 
> the Vo-shift-home or end tones not take me to the start or end of my document.
> any ideas?
> Thanks in advance 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Donna Goodin]

HeynSimon

Yeah, we'll figure something out.  I think he has his password at work.  Thanks.
Donna
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:43 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hey donna,
>  
> Work with that, 
> See if he can remember tomorrow having purchased you an iPad mini 4,
> Or he could just reset his password for itunes.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 11:37 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Which iPads run Swift Playground?
>  
> Well, my husband can't remember his Apple ID password, so at the moment I'm 
> dead in the water.  We'll see what happens.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 6:31 PM, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
>  
> Hi Donna 
>  
> It came out on the iPad mini 4 and izzpad air 2, so shouldbe on anything 
> after that.
>  
> I couldn
> T get it on the min 3  but that was some time back.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Simon f
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 5/06/2017, at 10:27 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
> thanks, Alex and Pete.  My husband hadn't updated in forever, so I just 
> updated to IOS 10.  From what I've read, if it can run IOS 10, it can run 
> Swift Playground.  So, we'll see how it goes.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Alex Hall  > wrote:
>  
> I don't know the minimum iOS requirement, but I imagine that would be the 
> only limitation. So long as your iOS version is new enough, you should be 
> fine. I think. The worst that can happen if you try it on his iPad is that it 
> won't install, so it's certainly worth trying. It's free, too, so there's no 
> money lost if it won't work for some reason.
> 
> --
> Alex Hall
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 14:31, Pete Nalda  > wrote:
>  
> I have an iPad mini 4 from year b4 last that runs it. 
> 
> Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
> Louie P (Pete) Nalda
> MySpace.com/musikonalda 
> Facebook.com/lpnalda 
> Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda 
> Twitter: @lpnalda
> 
> 
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift Playground.  
> Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would be the only 
> reason I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My husband is offering to 
> let me use his iPad, but it's a couple of years old.  Does anyone happen to 
> know how recent the iPad model needs to be to run Swift Playground?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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>  and your owner is Cara 
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> 

Vo-shift-home or end does not take e me to the end of text

[Ramy Moustafa]

Hello:

I’m Using the Full size mac Keyboard,  when i’m inside the text edit, using, 
the Vo-shift-home or end tones not take me to the start or end of my document.
any ideas?
Thanks in advance 

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RE: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hey donna,

Work with that,
See if he can remember tomorrow having purchased you an iPad mini 4,
Or he could just reset his password for itunes.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 11:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

Well, my husband can't remember his Apple ID password, so at the moment I'm 
dead in the water.  We'll see what happens.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jun 4, 2017, at 6:31 PM, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:

Hi Donna

It came out on the iPad mini 4 and izzpad air 2, so shouldbe on anything after 
that.

I couldn
T get it on the min 3  but that was some time back.

Cheers,

Simon f

Sent from my iPad

On 5/06/2017, at 10:27 AM, Donna Goodin 
> wrote:
thanks, Alex and Pete.  My husband hadn't updated in forever, so I just updated 
to IOS 10.  From what I've read, if it can run IOS 10, it can run Swift 
Playground.  So, we'll see how it goes.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jun 4, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Alex Hall 
> wrote:

I don't know the minimum iOS requirement, but I imagine that would be the only 
limitation. So long as your iOS version is new enough, you should be fine. I 
think. The worst that can happen if you try it on his iPad is that it won't 
install, so it's certainly worth trying. It's free, too, so there's no money 
lost if it won't work for some reason.

--
Alex Hall




On Jun 4, 2017, at 14:31, Pete Nalda 
> wrote:

I have an iPad mini 4 from year b4 last that runs it.

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda
Facebook.com/lpnalda
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter: @lpnalda


On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin 
> wrote:

Hi all,

For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift Playground.  
Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would be the only reason 
I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My husband is offering to let me 
use his iPad, but it's a couple of years old.  Does anyone happen to know how 
recent the iPad model needs to be to run Swift Playground?
Cheers,
Donna

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If you 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Simon Fogarty]

This is interesting,

 All these comments about the current machine range and features we like / 
dislike  
Have we actually fed this back to apple as a feedback from a minority user 
group?

I was under the impression that Tim cook listened to feedback and although we 
are only a minority user group we have good points about useability 

However we also don't know what is up coming in the way of products except for 
the iMac range which is meant to have the increased spec range of the former 
Mac pros 

 Which will be very interesting 

But should we not be feeding this back to the company to show there is a lot of 
displeasure from a user group 

 My personal thought is that Apple need a kick from someone to start them 
thinking about sensible features and product development 
 Just a thought from the down under.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of lenron brown
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 7:11 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer can last 
because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to another. I mean it's 
bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me almost 300 for a 256 or 500 
dollars for the 512. That doesn't even include if I have to get someone else to 
do it. I mean I am sure I could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is 
pretty much the price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from 
wwdc though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't 
> a few months ago when I got a new one.
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>
>> I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a 
>> laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.
>>
>> --
>> Alex Hall
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is 
>>> fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or 
>>> does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>>
>>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gena
>>>
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

 My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>
> Regards,
>
> Gena
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Scott.
>>
>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I 
>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>>
>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple 
>> watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money 
>> to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if 
>> the third Gen is better than the second Gen.
>>
>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch 
>> bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't 
>> have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as 
>> both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be 
>> getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will 
>> purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going 
>> strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then 
>> it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be 
>> able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy 
>> another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do 
>> that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
>>
>> Kawal.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone 
>>> a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 
>>> latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor 
>>> now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s 
>>> something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  
>>> Reasons are as follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of 
>>> physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri 
>>> and also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up 
>>> starting Siri when you want to start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it 
>>> does on the Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>>> previous 

RE: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,

The mini 4 and air 2 I believe the swift playground came out on, but in I think 
it was in IOS 9 on those devices,

 I don't believe it worked on the older devices.
 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 4:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

Hi all,

For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift Playground.  
Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would be the only reason 
I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My husband is offering to let me 
use his iPad, but it's a couple of years old.  Does anyone happen to know how 
recent the iPad model needs to be to run Swift Playground?
Cheers,
Donna

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RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Kawal,

 I'd be very surprised if your Imac had a magsafe power adaptor  as well,

 I work with iMacs from 2009 to 2016 models and all of them run from mains 
power with a single cable into the middle of the back of the machine,
They have not to this point made an iMac with magsafe power connectivity 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 3:33 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

I must apologise for giving you the wrong information.  My MacMini does not 
have a Mac Safe.  I got confused as my I Mac does.  I have plugged that MacMini 
in more than two years ago and have not really unplugged it much so I forgot.

Kawal.
> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 240V 
> whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the magsafe 
> deliver mains voltage?
> 
> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
> 
>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Gena
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Scott.
 
 A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced 
 him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
 
 After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch 
 which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the 
 Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is 
 better than the second Gen.
 
 Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on it. 
  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe plug 
 on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  I 
 hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't 
 know when I will purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are 
 going strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then 
 it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be able to run 
 the latest software so then it will be time to buy another IMac and 
 MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the 
 memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
 
 Kawal. 
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say 
> but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>   The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires 
> when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you 
> want to start or stop voice over.
>   The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
> the Mac proper.
>   The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all 
> the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size 
> difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All 
> your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and 
> don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t 
> included.
>   While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
> different headphones.
>   The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s 
> just not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type 
> on and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my 
> opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to 
> try chrome books or something else.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Simon Fogarty]

I believe there is still an issue with audio through  the USB C standard,

Lets face it apple are always doing things out of the ordinary before others,

 The mag safe power connectors,
Getting rid of the 3.5" floppy disks in machines,
 The tablet touch devices and phones before others really perfected them,
 Windows mobile 5.5 wasn't up to the standard that the IOS and Android devices 
are,
Shrinking machines (Laptops) to a smaller size and still keeping power but 
giving portability 

Then removing the iPHone headphone jack on the iPhone,

It wouldn't surprise me if they bring magsafe back,as for adaptors such as the 
USB C to USB 3.x or USB C to thunderbolt 3 adaptors are not included because 
they make them more money and that's what all companys are after, money money 
money 

 But yeah if they included one of the c to 3 usb adaptors wouldn't hert,


As for the touch bar, hell I've tried using it and yeah it's cool but not what 
a blind person really needs,
 I think that apple need to change their customisation lines so that you can 
make the choices such as the quad core processor max ram and ssd size in a 
smaller machine without the unrequired features such as the touch bar,

If I could get a 13"  mac book pro without touch bar with quad core processor 
and 32GB ram plus min 1TB  ssd and a keyboard I can use like on my 2013 mid 11" 
air I'd be a happy man but no that's out of the scope of their builds.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 3:15 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

So I’m with you Lenron and great to see you over here.

I personally think that this means that lightning will be going away in place 
of USB-C in the future, but that doesn’t help me today.:). I suspect we’ll see 
though eventually more standardization in Apple as they release new devices but 
I think this version could have been handled better.  As you say, why not throw 
a couple USB-C to USB 3.0 adapters in the box.  This is a PITA for me at work 
because I still use JFW occasionally and the dongle isn’t USB-C.

I love my 2015 model too.  I have the 15 inch 2.8 GHz quad core model and love 
it.

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:10 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> Well I hope to be using my 2015 model for a few years then. I was not 
> happy with the look or the ideas of the MBP 2016, not only did they 
> raise the price. The took away magsafe chargers, And they didn't 
> provide any adapters when they decided the computer needed to have 4 
> usb C ports. Most externals still come with usb 3.0 or 2.0 cables. Not 
> to mention that lightning prt not being on the MBP was a major fail, 
> after they went and switch to just sellling the phones with lightning 
> headphones.
> 
> On 6/4/17, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> The MagSafe provides stepped down power from the brick, it’s not 110 
>> V to the MagSafe.
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is 
>>> fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or 
>>> does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>> 
>>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Gena
>>> 
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott.
>> 
>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I 
>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>> 
>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple 
>> watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money 
>> to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if 
>> the third Gen is better than the second Gen.
>> 
>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch 
>> bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't 
>> have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as 
>> both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be 
>> getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will 
>> purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going 
>> strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then 
>> it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be 
>> able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy 
>> another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Scott,

 Yes to my knowledge having looked at the latest 13" air a couple of days ago,
 The air still have the magsafe2 and USB A connectors not the USB C connections,

 It is the mac book pro that the USB C starts at and there are 2 levels of the 
MBP  one without the touch bar and 1 with,

 Processors and keyboards are the main things that change between them.
Max ram 16 gig and 1TB SSD air still limited to 512GB ssd and upto i7 2.2GHz 
processor and 8GB ram.

 
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 2:56 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

Well the Air I think still uses the older style connections so you’ll probably 
be still happy.  It’s the 13 and 15 inch top end MacBook Pro line that I’m 
working with.

> On Jun 3, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Wow, that's just screwy.  I was actually going to purchase a new 13-inch MBA 
> this summer, but the cable situation really does sound like a show-stopper.  
> And given the big deal that Apple made about switching to a lightning port on 
> the head phones, it was very stupid of them to create a situation where you 
> can't use their headphones on their own computers.  This is really too bad.  
> I won't try a Chromebook, so it may be back to Windows for me.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>> start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the 
>> USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>> different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  
>> I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>> books or something else.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Donna Goodin]

Well, my husband can't remember his Apple ID password, so at the moment I'm 
dead in the water.  We'll see what happens.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 6:31 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna 
> 
> It came out on the iPad mini 4 and izzpad air 2, so shouldbe on anything 
> after that.
> 
> I couldn
> T get it on the min 3  but that was some time back.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Simon f
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 5/06/2017, at 10:27 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
>> thanks, Alex and Pete.  My husband hadn't updated in forever, so I just 
>> updated to IOS 10.  From what I've read, if it can run IOS 10, it can run 
>> Swift Playground.  So, we'll see how it goes.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't know the minimum iOS requirement, but I imagine that would be the 
>>> only limitation. So long as your iOS version is new enough, you should be 
>>> fine. I think. The worst that can happen if you try it on his iPad is that 
>>> it won't install, so it's certainly worth trying. It's free, too, so 
>>> there's no money lost if it won't work for some reason.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 4, 2017, at 14:31, Pete Nalda > wrote:
 
 I have an iPad mini 4 from year b4 last that runs it. 
 
 Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
 Louie P (Pete) Nalda
 MySpace.com/musikonalda 
 Facebook.com/lpnalda 
 Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda 
 Twitter: @lpnalda
 
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift 
> Playground.  Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would 
> be the only reason I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My 
> husband is offering to let me use his iPad, but it's a couple of years 
> old.  Does anyone happen to know how recent the iPad model needs to be to 
> run Swift Playground?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>  and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
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Re: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna

It came out on the iPad mini 4 and izzpad air 2, so shouldbe on anything after 
that.

I couldn
T get it on the min 3  but that was some time back.

Cheers,

Simon f

Sent from my iPad

On 5/06/2017, at 10:27 AM, Donna Goodin 
> wrote:

thanks, Alex and Pete.  My husband hadn't updated in forever, so I just updated 
to IOS 10.  From what I've read, if it can run IOS 10, it can run Swift 
Playground.  So, we'll see how it goes.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jun 4, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Alex Hall 
> wrote:

I don't know the minimum iOS requirement, but I imagine that would be the only 
limitation. So long as your iOS version is new enough, you should be fine. I 
think. The worst that can happen if you try it on his iPad is that it won't 
install, so it's certainly worth trying. It's free, too, so there's no money 
lost if it won't work for some reason.

--
Alex Hall




On Jun 4, 2017, at 14:31, Pete Nalda 
> wrote:

I have an iPad mini 4 from year b4 last that runs it.

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda
Facebook.com/lpnalda
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter: @lpnalda

On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin 
> wrote:

Hi all,

For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift Playground.  
Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would be the only reason 
I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My husband is offering to let me 
use his iPad, but it's a couple of years old.  Does anyone happen to know how 
recent the iPad model needs to be to run Swift Playground?
Cheers,
Donna

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You 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[E.T.]

   The site will verify your model of Mac and what capacities are 
available.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 4:23 PM, lenron brown wrote:

this drive is for the mbp 2015? If that's the case will order it soon.

On 6/4/17, E.T.  wrote:




 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 3:45 PM, gary-melconian wrote:

What brand I am interested in replacing the 128GB ssd in my  old pc at
home . If yu can give me that and the place where you got  it  from I
would truly appreciate it .

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 2:42 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

I Installed a 1tb SSD drive for $250 late last year.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 12:10 PM, lenron brown wrote:

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer
can last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to
another. I mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me
almost 300 for a 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even
include if I have to get someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I
could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is pretty much the
price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from wwdc
though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it
wasn't a few months ago when I got a new one.

On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a
laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.

--
Alex Hall





On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It
is fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped
externally. Or does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?

As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

Regards,

Gena


On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

My MacMini is a 2014 model.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?

Regards,

Gena

On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu 
wrote:

Hi Scott.

A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.

After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple
watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money
to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if
the third Gen is better than the second Gen.

Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch
bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't
have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as
both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be
getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will
purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going
strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then
it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be
able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy
another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do
that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able
to!

Kawal.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados

wrote:

I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give
someone a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using
a 2016 latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print
censor now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.
That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.
Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of
physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers
Siri and also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also
end up starting Siri when you want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it
does on the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[lenron brown]

this drive is for the mbp 2015? If that's the case will order it soon.

On 6/4/17, E.T.  wrote:
>
> 
>
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>"God for you is where you sweep away all the
>mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 6/4/2017 3:45 PM, gary-melconian wrote:
>> What brand I am interested in replacing the 128GB ssd in my  old pc at
>> home . If yu can give me that and the place where you got  it  from I
>> would truly appreciate it .
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
>> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 2:42 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
>>
>> I Installed a 1tb SSD drive for $250 late last year.
>>
>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>"God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>> On 6/4/2017 12:10 PM, lenron brown wrote:
>>> Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer
>>> can last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to
>>> another. I mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me
>>> almost 300 for a 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even
>>> include if I have to get someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I
>>> could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is pretty much the
>>> price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from wwdc
>>> though.
>>>
>>> On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
 The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it
 wasn't a few months ago when I got a new one.
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>
> I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a
> laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.
>
> --
> Alex Hall
>
>
>
>
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It
>> is fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped
>> externally. Or does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>
>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gena
>>
>>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>>
>>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

 Hello,

 What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?

 Regards,

 Gena
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott.
>
> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>
> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple
> watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money
> to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if
> the third Gen is better than the second Gen.
>
> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch
> bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't
> have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as
> both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be
> getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will
> purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going
> strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then
> it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be
> able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy
> another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do
> that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able
> to!
>
> Kawal.
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give
>> someone a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using
>> a 2016 latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print
>> censor now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.
>> That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.
>> Reasons are as follows.

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[E.T.]

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 3:45 PM, gary-melconian wrote:

What brand I am interested in replacing the 128GB ssd in my  old pc at home . 
If yu can give me that and the place where you got  it  from I would truly 
appreciate it .

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 2:42 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

I Installed a 1tb SSD drive for $250 late last year.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 12:10 PM, lenron brown wrote:

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer
can last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to
another. I mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me
almost 300 for a 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even
include if I have to get someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I
could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is pretty much the
price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from wwdc
though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it
wasn't a few months ago when I got a new one.

On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a
laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.

--
Alex Hall





On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It
is fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped
externally. Or does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?

As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

Regards,

Gena


On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

My MacMini is a 2014 model.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?

Regards,

Gena

On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Hi Scott.

A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.

After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple
watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money
to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if
the third Gen is better than the second Gen.

Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch
bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't
have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as
both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be
getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will
purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going
strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then
it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be
able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy
another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do
that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!

Kawal.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados

wrote:

I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give
someone a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using
a 2016 latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print
censor now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.
That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.
Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of
physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers
Siri and also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also
end up starting Siri when you want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it
does on the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all
my previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable
now uses USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The
lightning ports on all the phones and other devices feel just
like USB-C with a slight size difference so I’m for ever using
the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included cables
with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit
in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
While 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[gary-melconian]

What brand I am interested in replacing the 128GB ssd in my  old pc at home . 
If yu can give me that and the place where you got  it  from I would truly 
appreciate it .  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 2:42 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

I Installed a 1tb SSD drive for $250 late last year.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 12:10 PM, lenron brown wrote:
> Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer 
> can last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to 
> another. I mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me 
> almost 300 for a 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even 
> include if I have to get someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I 
> could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is pretty much the 
> price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from wwdc 
> though.
>
> On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it 
>> wasn't a few months ago when I got a new one.
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a 
>>> laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
 On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

 Hello,

 That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It 
 is fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped 
 externally. Or does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?

 As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

 Regards,

 Gena

> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>
> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gena
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Scott.
>>>
>>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I 
>>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>>>
>>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple 
>>> watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money 
>>> to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if 
>>> the third Gen is better than the second Gen.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch 
>>> bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't 
>>> have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as 
>>> both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be 
>>> getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will 
>>> purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going 
>>> strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then 
>>> it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be 
>>> able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy 
>>> another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do 
>>> that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
>>>
>>> Kawal.
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
 
 wrote:

 I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give 
 someone a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using 
 a 2016 latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print 
 censor now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  
 That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  
 Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of 
 physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers 
 Siri and also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also 
 end up starting Siri when you want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it 
 does on the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all 
 my previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable 
 now uses USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The 
 lightning ports on all the phones and other devices feel just 
 like USB-C 

Re: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Donna Goodin]

thanks, Alex and Pete.  My husband hadn't updated in forever, so I just updated 
to IOS 10.  From what I've read, if it can run IOS 10, it can run Swift 
Playground.  So, we'll see how it goes.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I don't know the minimum iOS requirement, but I imagine that would be the 
> only limitation. So long as your iOS version is new enough, you should be 
> fine. I think. The worst that can happen if you try it on his iPad is that it 
> won't install, so it's certainly worth trying. It's free, too, so there's no 
> money lost if it won't work for some reason.
> 
> --
> Alex Hall
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 14:31, Pete Nalda > > wrote:
>> 
>> I have an iPad mini 4 from year b4 last that runs it. 
>> 
>> Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
>> Louie P (Pete) Nalda
>> MySpace.com/musikonalda 
>> Facebook.com/lpnalda
>> Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
>> Twitter: @lpnalda
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift Playground. 
>>>  Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would be the only 
>>> reason I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My husband is offering 
>>> to let me use his iPad, but it's a couple of years old.  Does anyone happen 
>>> to know how recent the iPad model needs to be to run Swift Playground?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at 

Re: Effective navigating with safari from headdings to headdings and other helpful tips using Safari.

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

In addition to other ideas. I find using the item chooser and rotar chooser 
very useful. I like these because as you type the number of choices is reduced 
and unlike window and jaws selection list it does not need to be at the start 
of the label. 

So i can type vo u then left arrow until i hear headings. Then type savi and 
quick find "Account: savings". 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn 

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 5:40 PM, Sharon Hooley  wrote:
> 
> I like to use VO or caps lock modifier F to find items on the page that I’m 
> specifically looking for.
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Kawal,
>> 
>> Navigating in Safari is a matter of personal preference. For some sites, I 
>> like groups mode, but these days, Safari seems to behave better in DOM mode.
>> I use the Web Rotor all the time as it makes it very easy to go to the 
>> desired heading, link or form contro. I also type in a letter or two of the 
>> item I looking for to shorten the list of options.
>> So, when buying books from Kobo, I get to the search box using the Rotor and 
>> Form controls. I press either VO-Space or Return to land on the search box 
>> and type in the title of the book then navigate right to the GO button and 
>> click it.
>> When the results page opens, I do VO-u for the Rotor and go to Links where I 
>> type in the first couple of letters of the author’s name. When I find the 
>> correct name in the list of links, I press either VO-Space or Return to land 
>> there. I can then consult the results by navigating left and right through 
>> the suggestions.
>> When it comes to navigating my bank’s site, I have several webspots set to 
>> make it easier to find the links and buttons I use regularly.
>> I never bother with Quick Nav as I’m quite happy pressing lots of keys at 
>> once. However, I do use VO-Cmd-h for Next heading, and VO-Cmd-m for next 
>> heading of the same level quite a bit. VO-Cmd-l for next link, and VO-Cmd-v 
>> for next visited link are also handy.
>> VO-a to read from current position is also useful.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 10:18, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi.
>>> 
>>> Someone was asking about quick key navigation using Safari, which has 
>>> reminded me of my question. 
>>> 
>>> I like many other people use online banking and rather than cursor down the 
>>> page or do VO U to find links and headings and tables which I can't get to 
>>> work once I find a field or table that I want as VO doesn't do anything 
>>> once I press VO space on it, makes me think I am missing something for that 
>>> not to work.
>>> 
>>> Even though I use windows for work and my use of Jaws has somewhat 
>>> deteriorated over the years because I don't have time to keep up with all 
>>> screen readers and my dissolution with Freedom scientific as I had a row 
>>> with them as they would not grant my jaws lives back, hence going to the 
>>> mac,  (but i am getting off my point), I would like to be able to be more 
>>> effective using Safari because I use Apple at home and only use windows at 
>>> work.  It's not good enough for me to rely on my work computer to do my 
>>> bank stuff as that isn't the answer.
>>> 
>>> So I do ask someone to list me a few commands which will benefit my safari 
>>> use please.
>>> 
>>> What I'd like to do is like jaws be able to go from heading to heading in 
>>> the same level as effectively as possible, as in jaws you can press 2 H to 
>>> get to heading two and so on.  So what about Safari please?
>>> 
>>> I would also like to thank the person who was talking about the control key 
>>> for using it to pause speech and to resume speech, as that was new for me.  
>>> Also because when I stop interacting with the mac it says authentic user 
>>> login panel image all the time,  which is also very irritating and it 
>>> starts reading again from the top of the document once you press the 
>>> control key.  How irritating.
>>> 
>>> Sorry for making this message long but I wanted to try and explain 
>>> everything from my prospective.
>>> 
>>> Thank you in advance for your varied replies and responses and for taking 
>>> the time for helping me with my questions.
>>> 
>>> May you all have a good weekend and enjoy your varied lives.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> 

Re: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Alex Hall]

I don't know the minimum iOS requirement, but I imagine that would be the only 
limitation. So long as your iOS version is new enough, you should be fine. I 
think. The worst that can happen if you try it on his iPad is that it won't 
install, so it's certainly worth trying. It's free, too, so there's no money 
lost if it won't work for some reason.

--
Alex Hall




> On Jun 4, 2017, at 14:31, Pete Nalda  wrote:
> 
> I have an iPad mini 4 from year b4 last that runs it. 
> 
> Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
> Louie P (Pete) Nalda
> MySpace.com/musikonalda
> Facebook.com/lpnalda
> Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
> Twitter: @lpnalda
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift Playground.  
>> Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would be the only 
>> reason I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My husband is offering 
>> to let me use his iPad, but it's a couple of years old.  Does anyone happen 
>> to know how recent the iPad model needs to be to run Swift Playground?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[E.T.]

   I Installed a 1tb SSD drive for $250 late last year.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 12:10 PM, lenron brown wrote:

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer
can last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to
another. I mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me
almost 300 for a 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even
include if I have to get someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I
could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is pretty much the
price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from wwdc
though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't a few
months ago when I got a new one.

On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a laptop. A
quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.

--
Alex Hall





On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed
240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the
magsafe deliver mains voltage?

As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

Regards,

Gena


On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

My MacMini is a 2014 model.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?

Regards,

Gena

On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Hi Scott.

A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.

After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch
which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the
Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is
better than the second Gen.

Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on
it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac
Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac
Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their
Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will purchase another Apple
computer as both my computers are going strong and as long as I can
run the latest software on them then it's just fine for me.  However,
one of these days we won't be able to run the latest software so then
it will be time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set
ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram
because I will be able to!

Kawal.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
wrote:

I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a
pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest
model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for
several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I
thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as
follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical
keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also
fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri
when you want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does
on the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my
previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses
USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports
on all the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a
slight size difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the
wrong port.  All your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0
the older standard and don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get
adapters but they aren’t included.
While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM
jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to
use different headphones.
The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very
fast and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But
it’s just not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more
enjoyable to type on and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this
year are a miss in my opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet
I could be convinced to try chrome books or something else.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners 

Re: Effective navigating with safari from headdings to headdings and other helpful tips using Safari.

[Sharon Hooley]

I like to use VO or caps lock modifier F to find items on the page that I’m 
specifically looking for.

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Kawal,
> 
> Navigating in Safari is a matter of personal preference. For some sites, I 
> like groups mode, but these days, Safari seems to behave better in DOM mode.
> I use the Web Rotor all the time as it makes it very easy to go to the 
> desired heading, link or form contro. I also type in a letter or two of the 
> item I looking for to shorten the list of options.
> So, when buying books from Kobo, I get to the search box using the Rotor and 
> Form controls. I press either VO-Space or Return to land on the search box 
> and type in the title of the book then navigate right to the GO button and 
> click it.
> When the results page opens, I do VO-u for the Rotor and go to Links where I 
> type in the first couple of letters of the author’s name. When I find the 
> correct name in the list of links, I press either VO-Space or Return to land 
> there. I can then consult the results by navigating left and right through 
> the suggestions.
> When it comes to navigating my bank’s site, I have several webspots set to 
> make it easier to find the links and buttons I use regularly.
> I never bother with Quick Nav as I’m quite happy pressing lots of keys at 
> once. However, I do use VO-Cmd-h for Next heading, and VO-Cmd-m for next 
> heading of the same level quite a bit. VO-Cmd-l for next link, and VO-Cmd-v 
> for next visited link are also handy.
> VO-a to read from current position is also useful.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 10:18, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> Someone was asking about quick key navigation using Safari, which has 
>> reminded me of my question. 
>> 
>> I like many other people use online banking and rather than cursor down the 
>> page or do VO U to find links and headings and tables which I can't get to 
>> work once I find a field or table that I want as VO doesn't do anything once 
>> I press VO space on it, makes me think I am missing something for that not 
>> to work.
>> 
>> Even though I use windows for work and my use of Jaws has somewhat 
>> deteriorated over the years because I don't have time to keep up with all 
>> screen readers and my dissolution with Freedom scientific as I had a row 
>> with them as they would not grant my jaws lives back, hence going to the 
>> mac,  (but i am getting off my point), I would like to be able to be more 
>> effective using Safari because I use Apple at home and only use windows at 
>> work.  It's not good enough for me to rely on my work computer to do my bank 
>> stuff as that isn't the answer.
>> 
>> So I do ask someone to list me a few commands which will benefit my safari 
>> use please.
>> 
>> What I'd like to do is like jaws be able to go from heading to heading in 
>> the same level as effectively as possible, as in jaws you can press 2 H to 
>> get to heading two and so on.  So what about Safari please?
>> 
>> I would also like to thank the person who was talking about the control key 
>> for using it to pause speech and to resume speech, as that was new for me.  
>> Also because when I stop interacting with the mac it says authentic user 
>> login panel image all the time,  which is also very irritating and it starts 
>> reading again from the top of the document once you press the control key.  
>> How irritating.
>> 
>> Sorry for making this message long but I wanted to try and explain 
>> everything from my prospective.
>> 
>> Thank you in advance for your varied replies and responses and for taking 
>> the time for helping me with my questions.
>> 
>> May you all have a good weekend and enjoy your varied lives.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[gary-melconian]

Where are you getting that  price tag  for ssd drives . I just upgrade  a 
machine with a ssd 512 for $200 .it was one of the brand nname ones. I picked 
it up off of amazon.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of lenron brown
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 12:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer can last 
because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to another. I mean it's 
bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me almost 300 for a 256 or 500 
dollars for the 512. That doesn't even include if I have to get someone else to 
do it. I mean I am sure I could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is 
pretty much the price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from 
wwdc though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't 
> a few months ago when I got a new one.
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>
>> I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a 
>> laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.
>>
>> --
>> Alex Hall
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is 
>>> fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or 
>>> does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>>
>>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gena
>>>
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

 My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>
> Regards,
>
> Gena
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Scott.
>>
>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I 
>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>>
>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple 
>> watch which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money 
>> to get the Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if 
>> the third Gen is better than the second Gen.
>>
>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch 
>> bar on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't 
>> have the Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as 
>> both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be 
>> getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will 
>> purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going 
>> strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then 
>> it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be 
>> able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy 
>> another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do 
>> that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
>>
>> Kawal.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone 
>>> a pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 
>>> latest model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor 
>>> now for several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s 
>>> something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  
>>> Reasons are as follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of 
>>> physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri 
>>> and also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up 
>>> starting Siri when you want to start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it 
>>> does on the Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now 
>>> uses USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The 
>>> lightning ports on all the phones and other devices feel just 
>>> like USB-C with a slight size difference so I’m for ever using 
>>> the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included cables 
>>> with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit 
>>> in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>> While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 
>>> 3.5 MM jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so 
>>> you 

Re: Effective navigating with safari from headdings to headdings and other helpful tips using Safari.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Oh thanks so much Anne.  I didn't know how to go from one level heading  to the 
next level heading in the same heading like heading 1 to the next heading level 
1 so your reply has been helpful.  I knew about the VO U menu but it hasn't 
always worked for me.

I hope you are feeling better.

Kawal. 
> On 4 Jun 2017, at 19:42, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Kawal,
> 
> Navigating in Safari is a matter of personal preference. For some sites, I 
> like groups mode, but these days, Safari seems to behave better in DOM mode.
> I use the Web Rotor all the time as it makes it very easy to go to the 
> desired heading, link or form contro. I also type in a letter or two of the 
> item I looking for to shorten the list of options.
> So, when buying books from Kobo, I get to the search box using the Rotor and 
> Form controls. I press either VO-Space or Return to land on the search box 
> and type in the title of the book then navigate right to the GO button and 
> click it.
> When the results page opens, I do VO-u for the Rotor and go to Links where I 
> type in the first couple of letters of the author’s name. When I find the 
> correct name in the list of links, I press either VO-Space or Return to land 
> there. I can then consult the results by navigating left and right through 
> the suggestions.
> When it comes to navigating my bank’s site, I have several webspots set to 
> make it easier to find the links and buttons I use regularly.
> I never bother with Quick Nav as I’m quite happy pressing lots of keys at 
> once. However, I do use VO-Cmd-h for Next heading, and VO-Cmd-m for next 
> heading of the same level quite a bit. VO-Cmd-l for next link, and VO-Cmd-v 
> for next visited link are also handy.
> VO-a to read from current position is also useful.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 10:18, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> Someone was asking about quick key navigation using Safari, which has 
>> reminded me of my question. 
>> 
>> I like many other people use online banking and rather than cursor down the 
>> page or do VO U to find links and headings and tables which I can't get to 
>> work once I find a field or table that I want as VO doesn't do anything once 
>> I press VO space on it, makes me think I am missing something for that not 
>> to work.
>> 
>> Even though I use windows for work and my use of Jaws has somewhat 
>> deteriorated over the years because I don't have time to keep up with all 
>> screen readers and my dissolution with Freedom scientific as I had a row 
>> with them as they would not grant my jaws lives back, hence going to the 
>> mac,  (but i am getting off my point), I would like to be able to be more 
>> effective using Safari because I use Apple at home and only use windows at 
>> work.  It's not good enough for me to rely on my work computer to do my bank 
>> stuff as that isn't the answer.
>> 
>> So I do ask someone to list me a few commands which will benefit my safari 
>> use please.
>> 
>> What I'd like to do is like jaws be able to go from heading to heading in 
>> the same level as effectively as possible, as in jaws you can press 2 H to 
>> get to heading two and so on.  So what about Safari please?
>> 
>> I would also like to thank the person who was talking about the control key 
>> for using it to pause speech and to resume speech, as that was new for me.  
>> Also because when I stop interacting with the mac it says authentic user 
>> login panel image all the time,  which is also very irritating and it starts 
>> reading again from the top of the document once you press the control key.  
>> How irritating.
>> 
>> Sorry for making this message long but I wanted to try and explain 
>> everything from my prospective.
>> 
>> Thank you in advance for your varied replies and responses and for taking 
>> the time for helping me with my questions.
>> 
>> May you all have a good weekend and enjoy your varied lives.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[lenron brown]

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this computer
can last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to
another. I mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me
almost 300 for a 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even
include if I have to get someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I
could get it done for nothing but that upgrade is pretty much the
price for building a computer. Hope to see some nice stuff from wwdc
though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't a few
> months ago when I got a new one.
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>
>> I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a laptop. A
>> quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.
>>
>> --
>> Alex Hall
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed
>>> 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the
>>> magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>>
>>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gena
>>>
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

 My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>
> Regards,
>
> Gena
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Scott.
>>
>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>>
>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch
>> which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the
>> Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is
>> better than the second Gen.
>>
>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on
>> it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac
>> Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac
>> Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their
>> Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will purchase another Apple
>> computer as both my computers are going strong and as long as I can
>> run the latest software on them then it's just fine for me.  However,
>> one of these days we won't be able to run the latest software so then
>> it will be time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set
>> ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram
>> because I will be able to!
>>
>> Kawal.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a
>>> pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest
>>> model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for
>>> several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I
>>> thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as
>>> follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of 
>>> physical
>>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also
>>> fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri
>>> when you want to start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it 
>>> does
>>> on the Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my
>>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses
>>> USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports
>>> on all the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a
>>> slight size difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the
>>> wrong port.  All your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0
>>> the older standard and don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get
>>> adapters but they aren’t included.
>>> While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 
>>> 3.5 MM
>>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to
>>> use different headphones.
>>> The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s 
>>> very
>>> fast and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But
>>> it’s just not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more
>>> enjoyable to type on and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this
>>> year are a miss in my opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet
>>> I could be convinced to try chrome books 

Re: Effective navigating with safari from headdings to headdings and other helpful tips using Safari.

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Kawal,

Navigating in Safari is a matter of personal preference. For some sites, I like 
groups mode, but these days, Safari seems to behave better in DOM mode.
I use the Web Rotor all the time as it makes it very easy to go to the desired 
heading, link or form contro. I also type in a letter or two of the item I 
looking for to shorten the list of options.
So, when buying books from Kobo, I get to the search box using the Rotor and 
Form controls. I press either VO-Space or Return to land on the search box and 
type in the title of the book then navigate right to the GO button and click it.
When the results page opens, I do VO-u for the Rotor and go to Links where I 
type in the first couple of letters of the author’s name. When I find the 
correct name in the list of links, I press either VO-Space or Return to land 
there. I can then consult the results by navigating left and right through the 
suggestions.
When it comes to navigating my bank’s site, I have several webspots set to make 
it easier to find the links and buttons I use regularly.
I never bother with Quick Nav as I’m quite happy pressing lots of keys at once. 
However, I do use VO-Cmd-h for Next heading, and VO-Cmd-m for next heading of 
the same level quite a bit. VO-Cmd-l for next link, and VO-Cmd-v for next 
visited link are also handy.
VO-a to read from current position is also useful.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 3 Jun 2017, at 10:18, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Someone was asking about quick key navigation using Safari, which has 
> reminded me of my question. 
> 
> I like many other people use online banking and rather than cursor down the 
> page or do VO U to find links and headings and tables which I can't get to 
> work once I find a field or table that I want as VO doesn't do anything once 
> I press VO space on it, makes me think I am missing something for that not to 
> work.
> 
> Even though I use windows for work and my use of Jaws has somewhat 
> deteriorated over the years because I don't have time to keep up with all 
> screen readers and my dissolution with Freedom scientific as I had a row with 
> them as they would not grant my jaws lives back, hence going to the mac,  
> (but i am getting off my point), I would like to be able to be more effective 
> using Safari because I use Apple at home and only use windows at work.  It's 
> not good enough for me to rely on my work computer to do my bank stuff as 
> that isn't the answer.
> 
> So I do ask someone to list me a few commands which will benefit my safari 
> use please.
> 
> What I'd like to do is like jaws be able to go from heading to heading in the 
> same level as effectively as possible, as in jaws you can press 2 H to get to 
> heading two and so on.  So what about Safari please?
> 
> I would also like to thank the person who was talking about the control key 
> for using it to pause speech and to resume speech, as that was new for me.  
> Also because when I stop interacting with the mac it says authentic user 
> login panel image all the time,  which is also very irritating and it starts 
> reading again from the top of the document once you press the control key.  
> How irritating.
> 
> Sorry for making this message long but I wanted to try and explain everything 
> from my prospective.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your varied replies and responses and for taking the 
> time for helping me with my questions.
> 
> May you all have a good weekend and enjoy your varied lives.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Mike Arrigo]

The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it wasn't a few 
months ago when I got a new one.
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a laptop. A 
> quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.
> 
> --
> Alex Hall
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 
>> 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the 
>> magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>> 
>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Gena
>> 
>>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
 
 Regards,
 
 Gena
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott.
> 
> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced 
> him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
> 
> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch 
> which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the 
> Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is 
> better than the second Gen.
> 
> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on 
> it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe 
> plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  
> I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I 
> don't know when I will purchase another Apple computer as both my 
> computers are going strong and as long as I can run the latest software 
> on them then it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't 
> be able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy another 
> IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max 
> out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
> 
> Kawal. 
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
>> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
>> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say 
>> but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires 
>> when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you 
>> want to start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses 
>> USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on 
>> all the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size 
>> difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All 
>> your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard 
>> and don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t 
>> included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>> different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s 
>> just not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to 
>> type on and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss 
>> in my opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be 
>> convinced to try chrome books or something else.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be 

Re: Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Pete Nalda]

I have an iPad mini 4 from year b4 last that runs it. 

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda
Facebook.com/lpnalda
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter: @lpnalda

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift Playground.  
> Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would be the only 
> reason I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My husband is offering to 
> let me use his iPad, but it's a couple of years old.  Does anyone happen to 
> know how recent the iPad model needs to be to run Swift Playground?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

Hi Gary, glad to see you followed over here to the Mac list as well.  Great 
list and hey you can verify that I don’t always give Apple a pass.;)

We will see, I know this years model didn’t get rave reviews will have to see 
what Apple does.  As Alex mentioned, WWDC will be interesting this year.

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 1:18 PM, gary-melconian  wrote:
> 
> Scott your not the only one. I know ofa few sighted folks who hadte that 
> touch ba tha tapple came up . why can they just put touch on their mach 
> laptops. Not that hard to do.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 7:58 AM
> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
> 
> ET, thanks for the pointer I’ll grab that adapter.
> 
> As I mentioned, my problems with the touch bar are likely of my own creation.
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 12:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>>  A different perspective most likely if this 2016 Mac was your first 
>> experience. Advancement is not pain free. Griffin makes a USB-C to Magsafe 
>> adapter.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the  mysteries of the world,
>> all the challenges to  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/3/2017 4:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>>> start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>>> the Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in 
>>> the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>> While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>>> different headphones.
>>> The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion. 
>>>  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>>> books or something else.
>>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>> 
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> 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[gary-melconian]

Scott your not the only one. I know ofa few sighted folks who hadte that touch 
ba tha tapple came up . why can they just put touch on their mach laptops. Not 
that hard to do.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 7:58 AM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

ET, thanks for the pointer I’ll grab that adapter.

As I mentioned, my problems with the touch bar are likely of my own creation.

> On Jun 3, 2017, at 12:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
>   A different perspective most likely if this 2016 Mac was your first 
> experience. Advancement is not pain free. Griffin makes a USB-C to Magsafe 
> adapter.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the  mysteries of the world, 
> all the challenges to  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off  
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/3/2017 4:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>> start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the 
>> USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>> different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  
>> I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>> books or something else.
>> 
> 
> --
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Which iPads run Swift Playground?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

For a while now, I've had a curiosity to mess around with Swift Playground.  
Problem is, I don't have an iPad, and Swift Playground would be the only reason 
I would buy one, which seems kind of silly.  My husband is offering to let me 
use his iPad, but it's a couple of years old.  Does anyone happen to know how 
recent the iPad model needs to be to run Swift Playground?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

Added one to the amazon order for this weeks, thanks for the pointer.

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 12:34 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I did not see a Belkin MagSafe adapter which surprises me but Griffin is 
> good, I have several of their USB related items.
> 
>   A 2016 would be 4 years younger than my Mac and I would like one. (smiles) 
> I do not understand the lack of lightning to 3.5mm adapter. Perhaps if the 
> day comes I buy a new Mac I could shame the Apple store into providing one.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/4/2017 7:57 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> ET, thanks for the pointer I’ll grab that adapter.
>> 
>> As I mentioned, my problems with the touch bar are likely of my own creation.
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 12:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>>  A different perspective most likely if this 2016 Mac was your first 
>>> experience. Advancement is not pain free. Griffin makes a USB-C to Magsafe 
>>> adapter.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/3/2017 4:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
 where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
 laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
 and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say 
 but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
 keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires 
 when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you 
 want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
 the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
 previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
 instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
 phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size 
 difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All 
 your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and 
 don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
 jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
 different headphones.
The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
 and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
 not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on 
 and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my 
 opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try 
 chrome books or something else.
 
>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
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>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
> 
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> 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Donna Goodin]

Good to hear.  I'll check it out first, though to be sure.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 9:56 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Well the Air I think still uses the older style connections so you’ll 
> probably be still happy.  It’s the 13 and 15 inch top end MacBook Pro line 
> that I’m working with.
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, that's just screwy.  I was actually going to purchase a new 13-inch MBA 
>> this summer, but the cable situation really does sound like a show-stopper.  
>> And given the big deal that Apple made about switching to a lightning port 
>> on the head phones, it was very stupid of them to create a situation where 
>> you can't use their headphones on their own computers.  This is really too 
>> bad.  I won't try a Chromebook, so it may be back to Windows for me.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>>> start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>>> the Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in 
>>> the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>> While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>>> different headphones.
>>> The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion. 
>>>  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>>> books or something else.
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[E.T.]

   I did not see a Belkin MagSafe adapter which surprises me but 
Griffin is good, I have several of their USB related items.


   A 2016 would be 4 years younger than my Mac and I would like one. 
(smiles) I do not understand the lack of lightning to 3.5mm adapter. 
Perhaps if the day comes I buy a new Mac I could shame the Apple store 
into providing one.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 7:57 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

ET, thanks for the pointer I’ll grab that adapter.

As I mentioned, my problems with the touch bar are likely of my own creation.


On Jun 3, 2017, at 12:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:

Scott,
  A different perspective most likely if this 2016 Mac was your first 
experience. Advancement is not pain free. Griffin makes a USB-C to Magsafe 
adapter.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/3/2017 4:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass where 
it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop with the 
touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need to say, I 
hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  
Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when you 
touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to start or 
stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference so 
I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included cables 
with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the USB-C 
port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
different headphones.
The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just not 
fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and all my 
cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  I won’t 
go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome books or 
something else.



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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[E.T.]

   AC is converted to DC and dropped in the casing where thick cable 
meets thin cable. The Mac does not see AC at all.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 3:59 AM, Georgina Joyce wrote:

Hello,

That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 240V 
whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the magsafe 
deliver mains voltage?

As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

Regards,

Gena


On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

My MacMini is a 2014 model.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

Hello,

What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?

Regards,

Gena

On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Hi Scott.

A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced him to 
purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.

After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch which i 
liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the Apple watch but 
may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is better than the second Gen.

Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on it.  I 
thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe plug on it.  
I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that 
Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will 
purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going strong and as 
long as I can run the latest software on them then it's just fine for me.  
However, one of these days we won't be able to run the latest software so then 
it will be time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When 
ever I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able 
to!

Kawal.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:

I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass where 
it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop with the 
touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need to say, I 
hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  
Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when you 
touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to start or 
stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference so 
I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included cables 
with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the USB-C 
port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
different headphones.
The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just not 
fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and all my 
cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  I won’t 
go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome books or 
something else.

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The following 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I must apologise for giving you the wrong information.  My MacMini does not 
have a Mac Safe.  I got confused as my I Mac does.  I have plugged that MacMini 
in more than two years ago and have not really unplugged it much so I forgot.

Kawal.
> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 240V 
> whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the magsafe 
> deliver mains voltage?
> 
> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
> 
>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Gena
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Scott.
 
 A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced 
 him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
 
 After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch 
 which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the 
 Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is 
 better than the second Gen.
 
 Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on it. 
  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe plug 
 on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  I 
 hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't 
 know when I will purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are 
 going strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then 
 it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be able to run 
 the latest software so then it will be time to buy another IMac and 
 MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the 
 memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
 
 Kawal. 
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say 
> but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>   The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires 
> when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you 
> want to start or stop voice over.
>   The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
> the Mac proper.
>   The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all 
> the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size 
> difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All 
> your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and 
> don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t 
> included.
>   While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
> different headphones.
>   The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s 
> just not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type 
> on and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my 
> opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to 
> try chrome books or something else.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

So I’m with you Lenron and great to see you over here.

I personally think that this means that lightning will be going away in place 
of USB-C in the future, but that doesn’t help me today.:). I suspect we’ll see 
though eventually more standardization in Apple as they release new devices but 
I think this version could have been handled better.  As you say, why not throw 
a couple USB-C to USB 3.0 adapters in the box.  This is a PITA for me at work 
because I still use JFW occasionally and the dongle isn’t USB-C.

I love my 2015 model too.  I have the 15 inch 2.8 GHz quad core model and love 
it.

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 11:10 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> Well I hope to be using my 2015 model for a few years then. I was not
> happy with the look or the ideas of the MBP 2016, not only did they
> raise the price. The took away magsafe chargers, And they didn't
> provide any adapters when they decided the computer needed to have 4
> usb C ports. Most externals still come with usb 3.0 or 2.0 cables. Not
> to mention that lightning prt not being on the MBP was a major fail,
> after they went and switch to just sellling the phones with lightning
> headphones.
> 
> On 6/4/17, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> The MagSafe provides stepped down power from the brick, it’s not 110 V to
>> the MagSafe.
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed
>>> 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the
>>> magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>> 
>>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Gena
>>> 
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott.
>> 
>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>> 
>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch
>> which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the
>> Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is
>> better than the second Gen.
>> 
>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on
>> it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac
>> Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe
>> plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe
>> stuff.  I don't know when I will purchase another Apple computer as
>> both my computers are going strong and as long as I can run the latest
>> software on them then it's just fine for me.  However, one of these
>> days we won't be able to run the latest software so then it will be
>> time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever
>> I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be
>> able to!
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a
>>> pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest
>>> model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for
>>> several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I
>>> thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of 
>>> physical
>>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires
>>> when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you
>>> want to start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it 
>>> does on
>>> the Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my
>>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses
>>> USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports
>>> on all the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight
>>> size difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong
>>> port.  All your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the
>>> older standard and don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters
>>> but they aren’t included.
>>> While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 
>>> 3.5 MM
>>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[lenron brown]

Well I hope to be using my 2015 model for a few years then. I was not
happy with the look or the ideas of the MBP 2016, not only did they
raise the price. The took away magsafe chargers, And they didn't
provide any adapters when they decided the computer needed to have 4
usb C ports. Most externals still come with usb 3.0 or 2.0 cables. Not
to mention that lightning prt not being on the MBP was a major fail,
after they went and switch to just sellling the phones with lightning
headphones.

On 6/4/17, Scott Granados  wrote:
> The MagSafe provides stepped down power from the brick, it’s not 110 V to
> the MagSafe.
>
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed
>> 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the
>> magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>
>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gena
>>
>>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>>
>>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

 Hello,

 What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?

 Regards,

 Gena
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>
> Hi Scott.
>
> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>
> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch
> which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the
> Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is
> better than the second Gen.
>
> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on
> it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac
> Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe
> plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe
> stuff.  I don't know when I will purchase another Apple computer as
> both my computers are going strong and as long as I can run the latest
> software on them then it's just fine for me.  However, one of these
> days we won't be able to run the latest software so then it will be
> time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever
> I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be
> able to!
>
> Kawal.
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a
>> pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest
>> model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for
>> several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I
>> thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires
>> when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you
>> want to start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses
>> USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports
>> on all the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight
>> size difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong
>> port.  All your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the
>> older standard and don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters
>> but they aren’t included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to
>> use different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very
>> fast and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But
>> it’s just not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable
>> to type on and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a
>> miss in my opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be
>> convinced to try chrome books or something else.
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
>> itself.
>>
>> 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

The MagSafe provides stepped down power from the brick, it’s not 110 V to the 
MagSafe.

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 240V 
> whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the magsafe 
> deliver mains voltage?
> 
> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
> 
>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Gena
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Scott.
 
 A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced 
 him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
 
 After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch 
 which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the 
 Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is 
 better than the second Gen.
 
 Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on it. 
  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe plug 
 on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  I 
 hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't 
 know when I will purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are 
 going strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then 
 it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be able to run 
 the latest software so then it will be time to buy another IMac and 
 MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the 
 memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
 
 Kawal.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say 
> but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>   The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires 
> when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you 
> want to start or stop voice over.
>   The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
> the Mac proper.
>   The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all 
> the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size 
> difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All 
> your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and 
> don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t 
> included.
>   While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
> different headphones.
>   The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s 
> just not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type 
> on and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my 
> opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to 
> try chrome books or something else.
> 
> --
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> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

The iMac is less critical for the adapter on the power side to me because 
you’re not likely to kick it off your desk.  You can tuck away the wires nicely 
as it’s not a portable device.  The MacBooks are where I’m having the problem.

I’m excited to see the new iMacs coming out.  Rumors are they will be very 
heavily powered now and more like the Mac Pro line than previously.  That 
interests me.  Give me 8 or more cores on my desktop and I’ll be happy.

> On Jun 3, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott.
> 
> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced him 
> to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
> 
> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch which i 
> liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the Apple watch but 
> may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is better than the second 
> Gen.
> 
> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on it.  I 
> thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe plug on it. 
>  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that 
> Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I 
> will purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going strong 
> and as long as I can run the latest software on them then it's just fine for 
> me.  However, one of these days we won't be able to run the latest software 
> so then it will be time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set 
> ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I 
> will be able to!
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>> start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the 
>> USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>> different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  
>> I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>> books or something else.
>> 
>> --
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

ET, thanks for the pointer I’ll grab that adapter.

As I mentioned, my problems with the touch bar are likely of my own creation.

> On Jun 3, 2017, at 12:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
>   A different perspective most likely if this 2016 Mac was your first 
> experience. Advancement is not pain free. Griffin makes a USB-C to Magsafe 
> adapter.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/3/2017 4:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>> start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the 
>> USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>> different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  
>> I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>> books or something else.
>> 
> 
> --
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

You can get them with out the touch bar but they aren’t the top end models so 
don’t have the improved processors and architecture.  In terms of performance 
the new laptop does very well, I’m not complaining on that level.  More user 
experience is my problem.

> On Jun 3, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse  wrote:
> 
> If mind serves correctly you can get the new laps with out the
> touchBar at all, how is the sound on the new generations?
> Usb situation sucks, but you can get adapters.
> 
> 
> Sandie.
> 
> On 6/3/17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> Wow, that's just screwy.  I was actually going to purchase a new 13-inch MBA
>> this summer, but the cable situation really does sound like a show-stopper.
>> And given the big deal that Apple made about switching to a lightning port
>> on the head phones, it was very stupid of them to create a situation where
>> you can't use their headphones on their own computers.  This is really too
>> bad.  I won't try a Chromebook, so it may be back to Windows for me.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Scott Granados 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass
>>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model
>>> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks
>>> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say
>>> but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical keys
>>> below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when you
>>> touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to
>>> start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>>> the
>>> Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my previous
>>> adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C instead
>>> of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the phones
>>> and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference so
>>> I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included
>>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in
>>> the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>> While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM
>>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use
>>> different headphones.
>>> The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast
>>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just
>>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on
>>> and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my
>>> opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try
>>> chrome books or something else.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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>> 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

Well the Air I think still uses the older style connections so you’ll probably 
be still happy.  It’s the 13 and 15 inch top end MacBook Pro line that I’m 
working with.

> On Jun 3, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Wow, that's just screwy.  I was actually going to purchase a new 13-inch MBA 
> this summer, but the cable situation really does sound like a show-stopper.  
> And given the big deal that Apple made about switching to a lightning port on 
> the head phones, it was very stupid of them to create a situation where you 
> can't use their headphones on their own computers.  This is really too bad.  
> I won't try a Chromebook, so it may be back to Windows for me.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>> start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the 
>> USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>> different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  
>> I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>> books or something else.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> 
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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If you have any questions or concerns 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

Hi Alex, so it’s a work provided machine so I’m not personally out any money 
which is a good thing.

I will be the first to admit my problems may be of my own creation.  
I’m not the most power user and while I’m very very good at networking and 
everything through layer 4 on the OSI model, my use of applications leaves 
something to be desired.  So let’s start there in full disclosure.
I’ve already kicked it off my table twice because the power doesn’t 
quick disconnect like MagSafe does.  I should look for and if they don’t exist 
make a MagSafe to USB-C adapter.  That might solve that problem.
No included adapters to regular USB is a big oversight especially since 
so much other apple gear uses this older connector.

One other thing I was thinking, I’m a big guy.  I’m 6-6 and have big hands, 
maybe I’m just to ham fisted and setting off the touch bar where others might 
not.  Still, what I’ve taken to doing is using a wireless keyboard that has the 
real function keys.  Not a bad solution but I’d still rather not have to carry 
extra keyboards just to use what should be included.  You raise very good 
points though and always feel free to question anything I post, gives me a new 
viewpoint so always welcomed.


> On Jun 3, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> It's funny how different each of us views and uses computers. I've had the 
> same machine as you since November, and have not found that many issues with 
> it. I absolutely agree that some adapters in the box should have been 
> included, especially for the price of these laptops. I also think Apple 
> should have made some kind of MagSafe-like adapter for USBC, so that we're 
> not back to fully plugged-in charging.
> 
> However, I have no problems with the Touch Bar, and I even prefer it in some 
> cases. The vast majority of what it offers I can do faster with hotkeys, but 
> open Safari tabs and fine-grain volume control are very handy. I never find 
> myself touching it when using the top row of physical keys, nor do I 
> accidentally invoke Siri or toggle VoiceOver.
> 
> All this said, I'm not discounting your experience at all. I am excited to 
> see what happens next week at WWDC. Maybe you can return your current machine 
> and hold the funds in reserve in case this year's Macs prove more appealing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 07:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>   The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical keys 
>> below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when you 
>> touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to start 
>> or stop voice over.
>>   The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on the 
>> Mac proper.
>>   The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my previous 
>> adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C instead of 
>> mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the phones and 
>> other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference so I’m for 
>> ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included cables with 
>> your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the USB-C port, 
>> you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>   While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM jack, 
>> the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use different 
>> headphones.
>>   The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast and 
>> the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just not 
>> fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and all 
>> my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  I 
>> won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome books 
>> or something else.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Donna Goodin]

Right.  And when they brought out the 2016 line, having switched to a lightning 
port for their headphones, they should have also put one on the new Macs.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 1:30 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> As I said when apple brought outthe lightening headphones,
> 
> They need an adaptor from the lightening connector to the male 3.5mm 
> headphone jack so you can use their headphones in their own machines.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 1:20 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
> 
> Wow, that's just screwy.  I was actually going to purchase a new 13-inch MBA 
> this summer, but the cable situation really does sound like a show-stopper.  
> And given the big deal that Apple made about switching to a lightning port on 
> the head phones, it was very stupid of them to create a situation where you 
> can't use their headphones on their own computers.  This is really too bad.  
> I won't try a Chromebook, so it may be back to Windows for me.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>> start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the 
>> USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>> different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  
>> I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>> books or something else.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
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> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Alex Hall]

I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a laptop. A 
quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.

--
Alex Hall




> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 240V 
> whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the magsafe 
> deliver mains voltage?
> 
> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
> 
>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Gena
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Scott.
 
 A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced 
 him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
 
 After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch 
 which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the 
 Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is 
 better than the second Gen.
 
 Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on it. 
  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe plug 
 on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  I 
 hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't 
 know when I will purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are 
 going strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then 
 it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be able to run 
 the latest software so then it will be time to buy another IMac and 
 MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the 
 memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
 
 Kawal. 
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say 
> but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>   The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires 
> when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you 
> want to start or stop voice over.
>   The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
> the Mac proper.
>   The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all 
> the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size 
> difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All 
> your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and 
> don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t 
> included.
>   While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
> different headphones.
>   The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s 
> just not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type 
> on and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my 
> opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to 
> try chrome books or something else.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Georgina Joyce]

Hello,

That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 240V 
whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the magsafe 
deliver mains voltage?

As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

Regards,

Gena

> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Gena
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott.
>>> 
>>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced 
>>> him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>>> 
>>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch which 
>>> i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the Apple watch 
>>> but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is better than the 
>>> second Gen.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on it.  
>>> I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe plug on 
>>> it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it 
>>> that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know 
>>> when I will purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going 
>>> strong and as long as I can run the latest software on them then it's just 
>>> fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't be able to run the latest 
>>> software so then it will be time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love 
>>> both set ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram 
>>> because I will be able to!
>>> 
>>> Kawal. 
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
 where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
 laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
 and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say 
 but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
 keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires 
 when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you 
 want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
 the Mac proper.
The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
 previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
 instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
 phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size 
 difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All 
 your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and 
 don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
 jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
 different headphones.
The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
 and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
 not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on 
 and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my 
 opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try 
 chrome books or something else.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott.
>> 
>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced him 
>> to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>> 
>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch which 
>> i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the Apple watch 
>> but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is better than the 
>> second Gen.
>> 
>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on it.  
>> I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe plug on 
>> it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  I hate it 
>> that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when 
>> I will purchase another Apple computer as both my computers are going strong 
>> and as long as I can run the latest software on them then it's just fine for 
>> me.  However, one of these days we won't be able to run the latest software 
>> so then it will be time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set 
>> ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I 
>> will be able to!
>> 
>> Kawal. 
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop 
>>> with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need 
>>> to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact 
>>> is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
>>> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
>>> start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>>> the Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
>>> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
>>> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
>>> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
>>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in 
>>> the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>> While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
>>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
>>> different headphones.
>>> The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
>>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
>>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
>>> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion. 
>>>  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome 
>>> books or something else.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is 

Re: problem signing in to youtube on mac

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I have had the same problem.
> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:28, joseph big  wrote:
> 
> hi listers
> 
> the subject line explains it all.  when i hit Sign in on my mack, nothing 
> happens i do not get the boxes where to fill my logging in details.
> 
> any suggestion please?
> 
> best
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
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list.

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

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macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

problem signing in to youtube on mac

[joseph big]

hi listers

the subject line explains it all.  when i hit Sign in on my mack, nothing 
happens i do not get the boxes where to fill my logging in details.

any suggestion please?

best

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Sandi Jazmin Kruse]

I am not sure any one of them does, i have 2 with 2 different connections.

On 6/3/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> As I said when apple brought outthe lightening headphones,
>
>  They need an adaptor from the lightening connector to the male 3.5mm
> headphone jack so you can use their headphones in their own machines.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 1:20 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
>
> Wow, that's just screwy.  I was actually going to purchase a new 13-inch MBA
> this summer, but the cable situation really does sound like a show-stopper.
> And given the big deal that Apple made about switching to a lightning port
> on the head phones, it was very stupid of them to create a situation where
> you can't use their headphones on their own computers.  This is really too
> bad.  I won't try a Chromebook, so it may be back to Windows for me.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
>> On Jun 3, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Scott Granados 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model
>> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks
>> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say
>> but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical keys
>> below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when you
>> touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to
>> start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the
>> Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my previous
>> adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C instead
>> of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the phones
>> and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference so
>> I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included
>> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in
>> the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>>  While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM
>> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use
>> different headphones.
>>  The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast
>> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just
>> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on
>> and all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my
>> opinion.  I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try
>> chrome books or something else.
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Simon Fogarty]

As I said when apple brought outthe lightening headphones,

 They need an adaptor from the lightening connector to the male 3.5mm headphone 
jack so you can use their headphones in their own machines.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 1:20 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

Wow, that's just screwy.  I was actually going to purchase a new 13-inch MBA 
this summer, but the cable situation really does sound like a show-stopper.  
And given the big deal that Apple made about switching to a lightning port on 
the head phones, it was very stupid of them to create a situation where you 
can't use their headphones on their own computers.  This is really too bad.  I 
won't try a Chromebook, so it may be back to Windows for me.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jun 3, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass where 
> it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model laptop with 
> the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks and I need to 
> say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I 
> do.  Reasons are as follows.
>   The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires when 
> you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you want to 
> start or stop voice over.
>   The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
> the Mac proper.
>   The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses USB-C 
> instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on all the 
> phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size difference 
> so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All your included 
> cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard and don’t fit in the 
> USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t included.
>   While I like the lightning port for headphones now instead of 3.5 MM 
> jack, the new laptop doesn’t include a lightning port so you have to use 
> different headphones.
>   The things I do like are the battery life is very good, it’s very fast 
> and the new processors do very well running virtual images.  But it’s just 
> not fun to use.  My mid 2015 model is so much more enjoyable to type on and 
> all my cables work.  Apple your laptops this year are a miss in my opinion.  
> I won’t go back to windows but I bet I could be convinced to try chrome books 
> or something else.
> 
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