When Scanning a Document, How to Know If It's Right Side Up?

[Brandon A. Olivares]

Hi,

Just got my printer/scanner today, and it works great.

Here's my question though: if I want to scan a document, is there a way to tell 
if it is right-side up? Like any apps I can use or anything? Most of the OCR 
apps will automatically flip it around the right way, but I'd like to make sure 
that if I'm, let's say, sending someone a scanned document, I did it the right 
way around.

Brandon

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Re: Deleting apps (was Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET)

[Vaughn Brown]

Thank you E.T. That did the trick.
Vaughn

On 8/7/17, E.T.  wrote:
> Double tap and hold with one finger then when you hear the tone,
> while still holding, split tap once with another finger.
>
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>"God for you is where you sweep away all the
>mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 8/7/2017 5:44 PM, Vaughn Brown wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to delete apps from my iPhone. The old tapping pattern
>> doesn't seem to work any more.
>> Tahnk you for deconfusing me... LOL
>> Vaughn
>>
>> On 8/7/17, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
>>> The Screen Curtain will be a feature for sighted people while driving a
>>> car.
>>> The apple car system with siri. Can be turned off of course.
>>>
>>> Take care
>>>
>>>
 Den 7. aug. 2017 kl. 10.27 skrev Simon Fogarty :

 Or try changing the world so that everyone else has to do everything
 the
 blind way!

 I can't get my work colleagues to use jaws or voiceover on computers
 and
 in a lot of cases I can't get them to turn these products off instead
 they
 just mute the computers,

 If you think about what you are doing with the phone using voiceover,
 your
 actually not doing a lot differently to that of a sighted user.

 I have to teach or instruct sighted users how to use and or setup their
 phones or tablets be it an IOS device or android.

 Sometimes it takes a bit of work telling them what they have to find or
 should be seeing.
 But it's what makes me a very valuable member of my team.

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
 Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 4:45 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

We share the univers with the sighted population. We are using
 mainstream devices. Instead of making noise about the lack of blind
 perspectives, appreciate the advancements coming our way and take
 comfort
 in knowing we will not be left behind. If you are apprehensive about
 the
 changes, do not yup0grade for a month or three and wait until we get
 the
 blind perspective on Applevis.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

> On 8/6/2017 9:33 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things
> with
> Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the
> operating
> system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to
> date with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective,
> as
> I will learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use
> the
> I phone a sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when
> my
> father got his I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to
> him
> that I could not understand his question because I did not use Zoom
> and
> could not understand what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted
> people
> most of the day at work as well as with my family as no one is a blind
> person there, and thus if anyone wants to know anything about the
> phone,
> I can only explain it in the concept of voice over.  That is what I'm
> trying to say, I am only able to concept the I phone with voice over
> and
> I can't understand the sighted way.  I would if I had seen but I have
> not
> and that is why when I read these articles, there is something
> missing,
> my sight and the frustration begins from my side.
>
> I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading
> these articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do
> it
> in the sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read
> everything but the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do
> to
> use the phone in the way my sighted peers do use it.
>
> Kawal.
>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>
>> Hello Kawal,
>>
>> First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like
>> you,
>> I am a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and
>> Mac
>> OS via VoiceOver.
>>
>> Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep
>> everyone
>> updated on the changing policies, 

Deleting apps (was Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET)

[E.T.]

   Double tap and hold with one finger then when you hear the tone, 
while still holding, split tap once with another finger.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/7/2017 5:44 PM, Vaughn Brown wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to delete apps from my iPhone. The old tapping pattern
doesn't seem to work any more.
Tahnk you for deconfusing me... LOL
Vaughn

On 8/7/17, Terje Strømberg  wrote:

The Screen Curtain will be a feature for sighted people while driving a car.
The apple car system with siri. Can be turned off of course.

Take care



Den 7. aug. 2017 kl. 10.27 skrev Simon Fogarty :

Or try changing the world so that everyone else has to do everything the
blind way!

I can't get my work colleagues to use jaws or voiceover on computers and
in a lot of cases I can't get them to turn these products off instead they
just mute the computers,

If you think about what you are doing with the phone using voiceover, your
actually not doing a lot differently to that of a sighted user.

I have to teach or instruct sighted users how to use and or setup their
phones or tablets be it an IOS device or android.

Sometimes it takes a bit of work telling them what they have to find or
should be seeing.
But it's what makes me a very valuable member of my team.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 4:45 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

   We share the univers with the sighted population. We are using
mainstream devices. Instead of making noise about the lack of blind
perspectives, appreciate the advancements coming our way and take comfort
in knowing we will not be left behind. If you are apprehensive about the
changes, do not yup0grade for a month or three and wait until we get the
blind perspective on Applevis.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 8/6/2017 9:33 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things with
Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the operating
system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to
date with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective, as
I will learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use the
I phone a sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when my
father got his I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to him
that I could not understand his question because I did not use Zoom and
could not understand what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted people
most of the day at work as well as with my family as no one is a blind
person there, and thus if anyone wants to know anything about the phone,
I can only explain it in the concept of voice over.  That is what I'm
trying to say, I am only able to concept the I phone with voice over and
I can't understand the sighted way.  I would if I had seen but I have not
and that is why when I read these articles, there is something missing,
my sight and the frustration begins from my side.

I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading
these articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do it
in the sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read
everything but the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do to
use the phone in the way my sighted peers do use it.

Kawal.

On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:

Hello Kawal,

First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you,
I am a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac
OS via VoiceOver.

Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone
updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology
news that, sighted or not, affects us all.

Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will
continue to post the articles to the list and those who are not
interested can simply delete/ignore them.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
To: Macvisionaries
Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 -
CNET

Hello Mark.

Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is
going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what
a sighted person will be able 

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Vaughn Brown]

Hi,

I am trying to delete apps from my iPhone. The old tapping pattern
doesn't seem to work any more.
Tahnk you for deconfusing me... LOL
Vaughn

On 8/7/17, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
> The Screen Curtain will be a feature for sighted people while driving a car.
> The apple car system with siri. Can be turned off of course.
>
> Take care
>
>
>> Den 7. aug. 2017 kl. 10.27 skrev Simon Fogarty :
>>
>> Or try changing the world so that everyone else has to do everything the
>> blind way!
>>
>> I can't get my work colleagues to use jaws or voiceover on computers and
>> in a lot of cases I can't get them to turn these products off instead they
>> just mute the computers,
>>
>> If you think about what you are doing with the phone using voiceover, your
>> actually not doing a lot differently to that of a sighted user.
>>
>> I have to teach or instruct sighted users how to use and or setup their
>> phones or tablets be it an IOS device or android.
>>
>> Sometimes it takes a bit of work telling them what they have to find or
>> should be seeing.
>> But it's what makes me a very valuable member of my team.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
>> Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 4:45 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
>>
>>We share the univers with the sighted population. We are using
>> mainstream devices. Instead of making noise about the lack of blind
>> perspectives, appreciate the advancements coming our way and take comfort
>> in knowing we will not be left behind. If you are apprehensive about the
>> changes, do not yup0grade for a month or three and wait until we get the
>> blind perspective on Applevis.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>>> On 8/6/2017 9:33 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things with
>>> Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the operating
>>> system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to
>>> date with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective, as
>>> I will learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use the
>>> I phone a sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when my
>>> father got his I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to him
>>> that I could not understand his question because I did not use Zoom and
>>> could not understand what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted people
>>> most of the day at work as well as with my family as no one is a blind
>>> person there, and thus if anyone wants to know anything about the phone,
>>> I can only explain it in the concept of voice over.  That is what I'm
>>> trying to say, I am only able to concept the I phone with voice over and
>>> I can't understand the sighted way.  I would if I had seen but I have not
>>> and that is why when I read these articles, there is something missing,
>>> my sight and the frustration begins from my side.
>>>
>>> I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading
>>> these articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do it
>>> in the sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read
>>> everything but the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do to
>>> use the phone in the way my sighted peers do use it.
>>>
>>> Kawal.
 On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:

 Hello Kawal,

 First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you,
 I am a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac
 OS via VoiceOver.

 Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone
 updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology
 news that, sighted or not, affects us all.

 Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will
 continue to post the articles to the list and those who are not
 interested can simply delete/ignore them.

 Mark

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
 To: Macvisionaries
 Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 -
 CNET

 Hello Mark.

 Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is
 going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what
 a sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use
 the 

Re: sound when iPhone is starting up from power off?

[Stacey Robinson]

I wish there were as well.
Maybe I should write apple accessibility?

Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> Hi Stacy. Unfortunately, there is no way to make the iPhone make such a 
> sound. I totally wish there wasn’t, but unfortunately there is not.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone  
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I use VO on my iPhone SE. On any iPhone I’ve used there’s never been a way 
>> for me to tell when the iPhone is starting unless it’s plugged into power or 
>> my macbook.
>> Is there any way that 
>> I can make my phone make some sort of sound when its restarting if it’s not 
>> plugged into power?
>> Peace,
>> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>> 
>> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 11:01 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Found this a couple of years ago, so some of you may already have had some 
>>> fun with it.  Credit to OS X Daily for this.
>>> 
>>> Would you like your Mac to make a sound when the charge cable is connected, 
>>> like your iOS device does?  Newer MacBooks already do this, but as long as 
>>> you have 10.10.3 or higher and a Mac laptop, you can enable this feature.  
>>> I use it and like it a lot as I can know for sure that my cable has 
>>> initiated the charging cycle audibly.  Instructions below:
>>> 
>>> To enable Playing a Power Chime Sound Effect on a MacBook Pro & MacBook Air
>>> Disconnect the Mac from the MagSafe power source
>>> Open the Terminal app, found in /Applications/Utilities/
>>> Enter the following command syntax, be sure there are no breaks as you’ll 
>>> want to fit the entire sequence onto a single line (no it doesn’t matter if 
>>> it wraps):
>>> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool true; open 
>>> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app &
>>> 
>>> Hit Return
>>> Re-connect the MacBook power supply to hear the chime
>>> This will enable the feature through the defaults command string and 
>>> simultaneously launch the PowerChime application, the latter tiny app must 
>>> be running in order for the power chime sound effect to trigger.
>>> 
>>> Now you just have to disconnect your MagSafe (or USB-C) power connector 
>>> from the Mac, wait a second or two, then reconnect it. You’ll hear the 
>>> familiar power connected / charging sound effect from your iPhone and iPad 
>>> devices.
>>> 
>>> You can also trigger the sound effect manually, maybe you like the way it 
>>> sounds or you’re just curious what we’re talking about here. Use the 
>>> following command to play the power chime sound effect:
>>> 
>>> afplay 
>>> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app/Contents/Resources/connect_power.aif
>>> 
>>> To disable the Chime Sound Effect on Power Cable Connect in Mac OS X
>>> You can also turn off the power chime sound effect when you connect a power 
>>> cable to a Mac by issuing a different defaults command string within the OS 
>>> X Terminal:
>>> 
>>> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool false;killall 
>>> PowerChime
>>> 
>>> This will disable the sound effect when connecting a power cable on the 
>>> MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and yes, it will also disable the power chime 
>>> sound effect on the MacBook line as well.
>>> 
>>> Many new MacBook owners have noticed this little feature, but the source of 
>>> the audio was uncovered by @zwaldowski, who reports that some Macs will 
>>> even have a vibrating trackpad with this feature enabled (a new Retina 
>>> MacBook Pro does not offer that aspect).
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is 

Re: sound when iPhone is starting up from power off?

[Stacey Robinson]

Tim,
I wouldn’t know how to do that anyway.
Thanks,
Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The only methods that I've heard of to accomplish this require you to 
> JailBrake your device.  I would not recommend that.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Aug 7, 2017, at 15:34, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> Hi Stacy. Unfortunately, there is no way to make the iPhone make such a 
> sound. I totally wish there wasn’t, but unfortunately there is not.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone  
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I use VO on my iPhone SE. On any iPhone I’ve used there’s never been a way 
>> for me to tell when the iPhone is starting unless it’s plugged into power or 
>> my macbook.
>> Is there any way that 
>> I can make my phone make some sort of sound when its restarting if it’s not 
>> plugged into power?
>> Peace,
>> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>> 
>> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 11:01 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Found this a couple of years ago, so some of you may already have had some 
>>> fun with it.  Credit to OS X Daily for this.
>>> 
>>> Would you like your Mac to make a sound when the charge cable is connected, 
>>> like your iOS device does?  Newer MacBooks already do this, but as long as 
>>> you have 10.10.3 or higher and a Mac laptop, you can enable this feature.  
>>> I use it and like it a lot as I can know for sure that my cable has 
>>> initiated the charging cycle audibly.  Instructions below:
>>> 
>>> To enable Playing a Power Chime Sound Effect on a MacBook Pro & MacBook Air
>>> Disconnect the Mac from the MagSafe power source
>>> Open the Terminal app, found in /Applications/Utilities/
>>> Enter the following command syntax, be sure there are no breaks as you’ll 
>>> want to fit the entire sequence onto a single line (no it doesn’t matter if 
>>> it wraps):
>>> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool true; open 
>>> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app &
>>> 
>>> Hit Return
>>> Re-connect the MacBook power supply to hear the chime
>>> This will enable the feature through the defaults command string and 
>>> simultaneously launch the PowerChime application, the latter tiny app must 
>>> be running in order for the power chime sound effect to trigger.
>>> 
>>> Now you just have to disconnect your MagSafe (or USB-C) power connector 
>>> from the Mac, wait a second or two, then reconnect it. You’ll hear the 
>>> familiar power connected / charging sound effect from your iPhone and iPad 
>>> devices.
>>> 
>>> You can also trigger the sound effect manually, maybe you like the way it 
>>> sounds or you’re just curious what we’re talking about here. Use the 
>>> following command to play the power chime sound effect:
>>> 
>>> afplay 
>>> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app/Contents/Resources/connect_power.aif
>>> 
>>> To disable the Chime Sound Effect on Power Cable Connect in Mac OS X
>>> You can also turn off the power chime sound effect when you connect a power 
>>> cable to a Mac by issuing a different defaults command string within the OS 
>>> X Terminal:
>>> 
>>> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool false;killall 
>>> PowerChime
>>> 
>>> This will disable the sound effect when connecting a power cable on the 
>>> MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and yes, it will also disable the power chime 
>>> sound effect on the MacBook line as well.
>>> 
>>> Many new MacBook owners have noticed this little feature, but the source of 
>>> the audio was uncovered by @zwaldowski, who reports that some Macs will 
>>> even have a vibrating trackpad with this feature enabled (a new Retina 
>>> MacBook Pro does not offer that aspect).
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To 

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Terje Strømberg]

The Screen Curtain will be a feature for sighted people while driving a car. 
The apple car system with siri. Can be turned off of course.

Take care


> Den 7. aug. 2017 kl. 10.27 skrev Simon Fogarty :
> 
> Or try changing the world so that everyone else has to do everything the 
> blind way!
> 
> I can't get my work colleagues to use jaws or voiceover on computers and in a 
> lot of cases I can't get them to turn these products off instead they just 
> mute the computers,
> 
> If you think about what you are doing with the phone using voiceover, your 
> actually not doing a lot differently to that of a sighted user.
> 
> I have to teach or instruct sighted users how to use and or setup their 
> phones or tablets be it an IOS device or android.
> 
> Sometimes it takes a bit of work telling them what they have to find or 
> should be seeing.
> But it's what makes me a very valuable member of my team.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
> Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 4:45 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
> 
>We share the univers with the sighted population. We are using mainstream 
> devices. Instead of making noise about the lack of blind perspectives, 
> appreciate the advancements coming our way and take comfort in knowing we 
> will not be left behind. If you are apprehensive about the changes, do not 
> yup0grade for a month or three and wait until we get the blind perspective on 
> Applevis.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 8/6/2017 9:33 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things with 
>> Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the operating 
>> system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to date 
>> with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective, as I will 
>> learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use the I phone a 
>> sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when my father got 
>> his I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to him that I could 
>> not understand his question because I did not use Zoom and could not 
>> understand what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted people most of the 
>> day at work as well as with my family as no one is a blind person there, and 
>> thus if anyone wants to know anything about the phone, I can only explain it 
>> in the concept of voice over.  That is what I'm trying to say, I am only 
>> able to concept the I phone with voice over and I can't understand the 
>> sighted way.  I would if I had seen but I have not and that is why when I 
>> read these articles, there is something missing, my sight and the 
>> frustration begins from my side.
>> 
>> I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading these 
>> articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do it in the 
>> sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read everything but 
>> the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do to use the phone in 
>> the way my sighted peers do use it.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Kawal,
>>> 
>>> First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you, I 
>>> am a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac OS via 
>>> VoiceOver.
>>> 
>>> Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone 
>>> updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology 
>>> news that, sighted or not, affects us all.
>>> 
>>> Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will continue 
>>> to post the articles to the list and those who are not interested can 
>>> simply delete/ignore them.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
>>> To: Macvisionaries
>>> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - 
>>> CNET
>>> 
>>> Hello Mark.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is 
>>> going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a 
>>> sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the 
>>> phone in the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using 
>>> Voice Over.  So all these things would be better if we were going to learn 
>>> how to do these things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind 
>>> users.  If I 

Re: sound when iPhone is starting up from power off?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

The only methods that I've heard of to accomplish this require you to JailBrake 
your device.  I would not recommend that.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Aug 7, 2017, at 15:34, Daniel Miller  wrote:

Hi Stacy. Unfortunately, there is no way to make the iPhone make such a sound. 
I totally wish there wasn’t, but unfortunately there is not.

Sent from my iPhone  

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I use VO on my iPhone SE. On any iPhone I’ve used there’s never been a way 
> for me to tell when the iPhone is starting unless it’s plugged into power or 
> my macbook.
> Is there any way that 
> I can make my phone make some sort of sound when its restarting if it’s not 
> plugged into power?
> Peace,
> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
> 
> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 11:01 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Found this a couple of years ago, so some of you may already have had some 
>> fun with it.  Credit to OS X Daily for this.
>> 
>> Would you like your Mac to make a sound when the charge cable is connected, 
>> like your iOS device does?  Newer MacBooks already do this, but as long as 
>> you have 10.10.3 or higher and a Mac laptop, you can enable this feature.  I 
>> use it and like it a lot as I can know for sure that my cable has initiated 
>> the charging cycle audibly.  Instructions below:
>> 
>> To enable Playing a Power Chime Sound Effect on a MacBook Pro & MacBook Air
>> Disconnect the Mac from the MagSafe power source
>> Open the Terminal app, found in /Applications/Utilities/
>> Enter the following command syntax, be sure there are no breaks as you’ll 
>> want to fit the entire sequence onto a single line (no it doesn’t matter if 
>> it wraps):
>> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool true; open 
>> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app &
>> 
>> Hit Return
>> Re-connect the MacBook power supply to hear the chime
>> This will enable the feature through the defaults command string and 
>> simultaneously launch the PowerChime application, the latter tiny app must 
>> be running in order for the power chime sound effect to trigger.
>> 
>> Now you just have to disconnect your MagSafe (or USB-C) power connector from 
>> the Mac, wait a second or two, then reconnect it. You’ll hear the familiar 
>> power connected / charging sound effect from your iPhone and iPad devices.
>> 
>> You can also trigger the sound effect manually, maybe you like the way it 
>> sounds or you’re just curious what we’re talking about here. Use the 
>> following command to play the power chime sound effect:
>> 
>> afplay 
>> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app/Contents/Resources/connect_power.aif
>> 
>> To disable the Chime Sound Effect on Power Cable Connect in Mac OS X
>> You can also turn off the power chime sound effect when you connect a power 
>> cable to a Mac by issuing a different defaults command string within the OS 
>> X Terminal:
>> 
>> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool false;killall 
>> PowerChime
>> 
>> This will disable the sound effect when connecting a power cable on the 
>> MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and yes, it will also disable the power chime 
>> sound effect on the MacBook line as well.
>> 
>> Many new MacBook owners have noticed this little feature, but the source of 
>> the audio was uncovered by @zwaldowski, who reports that some Macs will even 
>> have a vibrating trackpad with this feature enabled (a new Retina MacBook 
>> Pro does not offer that aspect).
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[E.T.]

Kawal,
   That is a novel idea. Hand a sighted person the blindfold and then? 
It does not work.


   You are looking in the wrong place. I know someone who was born 
blind and he has absolutely no idea what the sighted world is like. All 
that matters to him is that he knows how to co-exist in it.


   Like you said the other day... A single tap for "them" is a double 
tap for us. What more do you want?



From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/7/2017 2:30 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

One thing I will say about this, we have been talking from all prospectives 
about using the I phone etc.

As many of you know, I work and serve the blind community in my professional 
capacity.  There is a project called Online today, and they go in to people's 
homes and teach people how to use access Technology.  The organisation that I 
work for are in the business of trying to rebuild people's lives again.  So 
it's not always about blind users needing to understand the sighted world.  
Sometimes it's about the sighted needing to know how to live in the blind world.

I don't think people have any right to assume that I have been missing 
something on the use of these devices but rather that I wanted to know both 
sides of the coin.  If I had time i would install the beta but as it is, I 
don't and only have time on and off to read the e-mails on this list due to my 
work load.  I can go without weeks reading e-mails and most of the time I end 
up deleting a lot of stuff just to keep up with what's is going on.
Some times I wonder what is the point of me being on this list but I try to 
keep up as much as possible.  I have every intention of getting the next I 
phone 8.  I don't often read manuals but play with devices and learn that way 
as I am rather more of a hands on person and only read manuals as a last 
resort.  I'd much rather hear a demo of how the device was being used.  Some of 
you will remember me using the Window phones and I never read the manuals, it 
was listening to podcasts that helped me get to know the devices so well.

At least I have read your comments and thanks for those.

Kawal.

On 7 Aug 2017, at 17:50, gary-melconian  wrote:



Totally agree with these points. The more perspective we hav on how sighted do 
things the better we are in competing in their competitive world.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 9:00 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

Kawal, I think you’ve completely missed the point of what Apple is doing and I 
totally disagree with you.

These articles are critical because there isn’t that much of a difference 
between our use cases and the sited community.  Apple doesn’t view us as a 
totally different group.  We’re not shielded from the visual in their design.  
As you know the IOS or OS X usage model gives we blind users a better idea of 
what’s physically on the screen, object placement and the GUI in general.  
Unlike a JFW where the screens are totally repackaged in to a more list form 
interface Voice Over sticks more to the actual screen format and doesn’t shield 
me from items that many screen readers do.
Next, I don’t live in a vacuum of only blind people.  I’m just as 
interested in one method of doing things as another as I have to support sited 
people.

I think fragmenting us even further like that only serves to harm us as in all 
things, if you’re not interested use your delete key or build appropriate 
filters but I think a lot of us on list are very interested in this sort of 
article.  I’m very interested in new features.  Good thing with Apple is a new 
feature is a new feature, it’s not a new feature for the blind or a new sited 
feature, it’s just a feature.  Voice Over in Apple’s world is just a feature to 
be developed like all others.  I like that model.




On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Hello Mark.

Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is going 
to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a sighted 
person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the phone in the 
sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using Voice Over.  So all 
these things would be better if we were going to learn how to do these things 
with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind users.  If I wanted to 
know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted person did, then I could find 
that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these articles in my opinion do not 
belong on a blindness list like this.  Many others 

Re: sound when iPhone is starting up from power off?

[Daniel Miller]

Hi Stacy. Unfortunately, there is no way to make the iPhone make such a sound. 
I totally wish there wasn’t, but unfortunately there is not.

Sent from my iPhone  

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I use VO on my iPhone SE. On any iPhone I’ve used there’s never been a way 
> for me to tell when the iPhone is starting unless it’s plugged into power or 
> my macbook.
> Is there any way that 
> I can make my phone make some sort of sound when its restarting if it’s not 
> plugged into power?
> Peace,
> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>
> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 11:01 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Found this a couple of years ago, so some of you may already have had some 
>> fun with it.  Credit to OS X Daily for this.
>> 
>> Would you like your Mac to make a sound when the charge cable is connected, 
>> like your iOS device does?  Newer MacBooks already do this, but as long as 
>> you have 10.10.3 or higher and a Mac laptop, you can enable this feature.  I 
>> use it and like it a lot as I can know for sure that my cable has initiated 
>> the charging cycle audibly.  Instructions below:
>> 
>> To enable Playing a Power Chime Sound Effect on a MacBook Pro & MacBook Air
>> Disconnect the Mac from the MagSafe power source
>> Open the Terminal app, found in /Applications/Utilities/
>> Enter the following command syntax, be sure there are no breaks as you’ll 
>> want to fit the entire sequence onto a single line (no it doesn’t matter if 
>> it wraps):
>> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool true; open 
>> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app &
>> 
>> Hit Return
>> Re-connect the MacBook power supply to hear the chime
>> This will enable the feature through the defaults command string and 
>> simultaneously launch the PowerChime application, the latter tiny app must 
>> be running in order for the power chime sound effect to trigger.
>> 
>> Now you just have to disconnect your MagSafe (or USB-C) power connector from 
>> the Mac, wait a second or two, then reconnect it. You’ll hear the familiar 
>> power connected / charging sound effect from your iPhone and iPad devices.
>> 
>> You can also trigger the sound effect manually, maybe you like the way it 
>> sounds or you’re just curious what we’re talking about here. Use the 
>> following command to play the power chime sound effect:
>> 
>> afplay 
>> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app/Contents/Resources/connect_power.aif
>> 
>> To disable the Chime Sound Effect on Power Cable Connect in Mac OS X
>> You can also turn off the power chime sound effect when you connect a power 
>> cable to a Mac by issuing a different defaults command string within the OS 
>> X Terminal:
>> 
>> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool false;killall 
>> PowerChime
>> 
>> This will disable the sound effect when connecting a power cable on the 
>> MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and yes, it will also disable the power chime 
>> sound effect on the MacBook line as well.
>> 
>> Many new MacBook owners have noticed this little feature, but the source of 
>> the audio was uncovered by @zwaldowski, who reports that some Macs will even 
>> have a vibrating trackpad with this feature enabled (a new Retina MacBook 
>> Pro does not offer that aspect).
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

One thing I will say about this, we have been talking from all prospectives 
about using the I phone etc.

As many of you know, I work and serve the blind community in my professional 
capacity.  There is a project called Online today, and they go in to people's 
homes and teach people how to use access Technology.  The organisation that I 
work for are in the business of trying to rebuild people's lives again.  So 
it's not always about blind users needing to understand the sighted world.  
Sometimes it's about the sighted needing to know how to live in the blind world.

I don't think people have any right to assume that I have been missing 
something on the use of these devices but rather that I wanted to know both 
sides of the coin.  If I had time i would install the beta but as it is, I 
don't and only have time on and off to read the e-mails on this list due to my 
work load.  I can go without weeks reading e-mails and most of the time I end 
up deleting a lot of stuff just to keep up with what's is going on. 
Some times I wonder what is the point of me being on this list but I try to 
keep up as much as possible.  I have every intention of getting the next I 
phone 8.  I don't often read manuals but play with devices and learn that way 
as I am rather more of a hands on person and only read manuals as a last 
resort.  I'd much rather hear a demo of how the device was being used.  Some of 
you will remember me using the Window phones and I never read the manuals, it 
was listening to podcasts that helped me get to know the devices so well.

At least I have read your comments and thanks for those.

Kawal.

On 7 Aug 2017, at 17:50, gary-melconian  wrote:
> 
> 
> Totally agree with these points. The more perspective we hav on how sighted 
> do things the better we are in competing in their competitive world.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 9:00 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
> 
> Kawal, I think you’ve completely missed the point of what Apple is doing and 
> I totally disagree with you.
> 
> These articles are critical because there isn’t that much of a difference 
> between our use cases and the sited community.  Apple doesn’t view us as a 
> totally different group.  We’re not shielded from the visual in their design. 
>  As you know the IOS or OS X usage model gives we blind users a better idea 
> of what’s physically on the screen, object placement and the GUI in general.  
> Unlike a JFW where the screens are totally repackaged in to a more list form 
> interface Voice Over sticks more to the actual screen format and doesn’t 
> shield me from items that many screen readers do.
>   Next, I don’t live in a vacuum of only blind people.  I’m just as 
> interested in one method of doing things as another as I have to support 
> sited people.
> 
> I think fragmenting us even further like that only serves to harm us as in 
> all things, if you’re not interested use your delete key or build appropriate 
> filters but I think a lot of us on list are very interested in this sort of 
> article.  I’m very interested in new features.  Good thing with Apple is a 
> new feature is a new feature, it’s not a new feature for the blind or a new 
> sited feature, it’s just a feature.  Voice Over in Apple’s world is just a 
> feature to be developed like all others.  I like that model.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Mark.
>> 
>> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is 
>> going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a 
>> sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the 
>> phone in the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using 
>> Voice Over.  So all these things would be better if we were going to learn 
>> how to do these things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind 
>> users.  If I wanted to know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted 
>> person did, then I could find that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these 
>> articles in my opinion do not belong on a blindness list like this.  Many 
>> others will say other wise but I am a blind user using voice over and not a 
>> blind person using my phone in the sighted manner of a person who has sight 
>> and can use the phone in the main stream kind of way.
>> I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to understand, 
>> what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to understand all 
>> this.
>> No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as 
>> I will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use my 
>> I phone as a sighted person can.
>> Kawal.
>>> 

sound when iPhone is starting up from power off?

[Stacey Robinson]

Hello,
I use VO on my iPhone SE. On any iPhone I’ve used there’s never been a way for 
me to tell when the iPhone is starting unless it’s plugged into power or my 
macbook.
Is there any way that 
 I can make my phone make some sort of sound when its restarting if it’s not 
plugged into power?
Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 11:01 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Found this a couple of years ago, so some of you may already have had some 
> fun with it.  Credit to OS X Daily for this.
> 
> Would you like your Mac to make a sound when the charge cable is connected, 
> like your iOS device does?  Newer MacBooks already do this, but as long as 
> you have 10.10.3 or higher and a Mac laptop, you can enable this feature.  I 
> use it and like it a lot as I can know for sure that my cable has initiated 
> the charging cycle audibly.  Instructions below:
> 
> To enable Playing a Power Chime Sound Effect on a MacBook Pro & MacBook Air
> Disconnect the Mac from the MagSafe power source
> Open the Terminal app, found in /Applications/Utilities/
> Enter the following command syntax, be sure there are no breaks as you’ll 
> want to fit the entire sequence onto a single line (no it doesn’t matter if 
> it wraps):
> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool true; open 
> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app &
> 
> Hit Return
> Re-connect the MacBook power supply to hear the chime
> This will enable the feature through the defaults command string and 
> simultaneously launch the PowerChime application, the latter tiny app must be 
> running in order for the power chime sound effect to trigger.
> 
> Now you just have to disconnect your MagSafe (or USB-C) power connector from 
> the Mac, wait a second or two, then reconnect it. You’ll hear the familiar 
> power connected / charging sound effect from your iPhone and iPad devices.
> 
> You can also trigger the sound effect manually, maybe you like the way it 
> sounds or you’re just curious what we’re talking about here. Use the 
> following command to play the power chime sound effect:
> 
> afplay 
> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app/Contents/Resources/connect_power.aif
> 
> To disable the Chime Sound Effect on Power Cable Connect in Mac OS X
> You can also turn off the power chime sound effect when you connect a power 
> cable to a Mac by issuing a different defaults command string within the OS X 
> Terminal:
> 
> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool false;killall 
> PowerChime
> 
> This will disable the sound effect when connecting a power cable on the 
> MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and yes, it will also disable the power chime sound 
> effect on the MacBook line as well.
> 
> Many new MacBook owners have noticed this little feature, but the source of 
> the audio was uncovered by @zwaldowski, who reports that some Macs will even 
> have a vibrating trackpad with this feature enabled (a new Retina MacBook Pro 
> does not offer that aspect).
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from 

Re: Familiar iOS Charge Chime

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Tim,

Thanks. It works!

Cheers,

Anne



> On 7 Aug 2017, at 18:01, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Found this a couple of years ago, so some of you may already have had some 
> fun with it.  Credit to OS X Daily for this.
> 
> Would you like your Mac to make a sound when the charge cable is connected, 
> like your iOS device does?  Newer MacBooks already do this, but as long as 
> you have 10.10.3 or higher and a Mac laptop, you can enable this feature.  I 
> use it and like it a lot as I can know for sure that my cable has initiated 
> the charging cycle audibly.  Instructions below:
> 
> To enable Playing a Power Chime Sound Effect on a MacBook Pro & MacBook Air
> Disconnect the Mac from the MagSafe power source
> Open the Terminal app, found in /Applications/Utilities/
> Enter the following command syntax, be sure there are no breaks as you’ll 
> want to fit the entire sequence onto a single line (no it doesn’t matter if 
> it wraps):
> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool true; open 
> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app &
> 
> Hit Return
> Re-connect the MacBook power supply to hear the chime
> This will enable the feature through the defaults command string and 
> simultaneously launch the PowerChime application, the latter tiny app must be 
> running in order for the power chime sound effect to trigger.
> 
> Now you just have to disconnect your MagSafe (or USB-C) power connector from 
> the Mac, wait a second or two, then reconnect it. You’ll hear the familiar 
> power connected / charging sound effect from your iPhone and iPad devices.
> 
> You can also trigger the sound effect manually, maybe you like the way it 
> sounds or you’re just curious what we’re talking about here. Use the 
> following command to play the power chime sound effect:
> 
> afplay 
> /System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app/Contents/Resources/connect_power.aif
> 
> To disable the Chime Sound Effect on Power Cable Connect in Mac OS X
> You can also turn off the power chime sound effect when you connect a power 
> cable to a Mac by issuing a different defaults command string within the OS X 
> Terminal:
> 
> defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool false;killall 
> PowerChime
> 
> This will disable the sound effect when connecting a power cable on the 
> MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and yes, it will also disable the power chime sound 
> effect on the MacBook line as well.
> 
> Many new MacBook owners have noticed this little feature, but the source of 
> the audio was uncovered by @zwaldowski, who reports that some Macs will even 
> have a vibrating trackpad with this feature enabled (a new Retina MacBook Pro 
> does not offer that aspect).
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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RE: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[gary-melconian]

Totally agree with these points. The more perspective we hav on how sighted do 
things the better we are in competing in their competitive world.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 9:00 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

Kawal, I think you’ve completely missed the point of what Apple is doing and I 
totally disagree with you.

These articles are critical because there isn’t that much of a difference 
between our use cases and the sited community.  Apple doesn’t view us as a 
totally different group.  We’re not shielded from the visual in their design.  
As you know the IOS or OS X usage model gives we blind users a better idea of 
what’s physically on the screen, object placement and the GUI in general.  
Unlike a JFW where the screens are totally repackaged in to a more list form 
interface Voice Over sticks more to the actual screen format and doesn’t shield 
me from items that many screen readers do.
Next, I don’t live in a vacuum of only blind people.  I’m just as 
interested in one method of doing things as another as I have to support sited 
people.

I think fragmenting us even further like that only serves to harm us as in all 
things, if you’re not interested use your delete key or build appropriate 
filters but I think a lot of us on list are very interested in this sort of 
article.  I’m very interested in new features.  Good thing with Apple is a new 
feature is a new feature, it’s not a new feature for the blind or a new sited 
feature, it’s just a feature.  Voice Over in Apple’s world is just a feature to 
be developed like all others.  I like that model.
 


> On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mark.
> 
> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is going 
> to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a sighted 
> person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the phone in 
> the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using Voice Over.  
> So all these things would be better if we were going to learn how to do these 
> things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind users.  If I 
> wanted to know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted person did, then 
> I could find that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these articles in my 
> opinion do not belong on a blindness list like this.  Many others will say 
> other wise but I am a blind user using voice over and not a blind person 
> using my phone in the sighted manner of a person who has sight and can use 
> the phone in the main stream kind of way.
> I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to understand, 
> what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to understand all 
> this.
> No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as I 
> will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use my I 
> phone as a sighted person can.
> Kawal.
>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:34, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> CNET How To - Friday, August 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM
>> 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET With iOS 
>> 11 expected to officially launch this fall, it's a good idea to know 
>> just what you're in for after you install the latest and greatest 
>> Apple has to offer to the iPhone. The new OS is full of small, subtle 
>> tweaks, but there are also some bigger changes that will undoubtedly 
>> take some getting used to.
>> 
>> Notification Center is no more
>> Jason Cipriani/CNET
>> Well, that's not completely true. It's still there, it's just that 
>> now it's called Cover Sheet.
>> 
>> Cover Sheet looks a lot like the standard iOS lock screen and works 
>> in the same manner too. Swipe in either direction on alerts to take 
>> action or clear them. Swipe from either edge of the display to launch 
>> the camera or view your Today panel.
>> Oh, and your notification feed will be broken up into Most Recent and 
>> Earlier Today (Yesterday, and so on) sections.
>> 
>> No more Force Touch for quick app switching When Apple announced the 
>> iPhone 6 ($370.79 at Amazon.com), complete with a pressure sensitive 
>> screen, the company also added a shortcut to quickly switch between 
>> apps by pressing on the left edge of the display.
>> With iOS 11, that gesture is gone. Go ahead, press as hard as you 
>> want. It's simply not going to work.
>> Time to go back to double-pressing the home button.
>> 
>> Drag-and-drop isn't just for iPad
>> Jason Cipriani/CNET
>> Apple touted the iPad's new drag-and-drop feature when it unveiled 
>> iOS 11 in June, but what the company didn't tell us is the iPhone has 
>> it too; albeit in very limited situations.
>> In the Photos app, for example, you can drag a photo 

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Scott Granados]

I agree, I thank Mark for his latitude in the topics of articles he allows on 
list.


> On Aug 7, 2017, at 4:22 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Mark 
> 
> I'm going to say thanks for sending these articals out.
> 
> It's great to hear what is coming in the new releases 
> 
> Please yes keep sending them to us.
> 
> As to those that don't like it.
> 
> Build a bridge and get over it!
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor
> Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 4:17 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
> 
> Hello Kawal,
> 
> First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you, I am 
> a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac OS via 
> VoiceOver.  
> 
> Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone 
> updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology news 
> that, sighted or not, affects us all.
> 
> Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will continue to 
> post the articles to the list and those who are not interested can simply 
> delete/ignore them.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
> To: Macvisionaries
> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
> 
> Hello Mark.
> 
> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is going 
> to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a sighted 
> person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the phone in 
> the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using Voice Over.  
> So all these things would be better if we were going to learn how to do these 
> things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind users.  If I 
> wanted to know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted person did, then 
> I could find that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these articles in my 
> opinion do not belong on a blindness list like this.  Many others will say 
> other wise but I am a blind user using voice over and not a blind person 
> using my phone in the sighted manner of a person who has sight and can use 
> the phone in the main stream kind of way.
> I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to understand, 
> what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to understand all 
> this.
> No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as I 
> will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use my I 
> phone as a sighted person can.
> Kawal.
>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:34, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> CNET How To - Friday, August 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM
>> 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET With iOS 11 
>> expected to officially launch this fall, it's a good idea to know just 
>> what you're in for after you install the latest and greatest Apple has 
>> to offer to the iPhone. The new OS is full of small, subtle tweaks, 
>> but there are also some bigger changes that will undoubtedly take some 
>> getting used to.
>> 
>> Notification Center is no more
>> Jason Cipriani/CNET
>> Well, that's not completely true. It's still there, it's just that now 
>> it's called Cover Sheet.
>> 
>> Cover Sheet looks a lot like the standard iOS lock screen and works in 
>> the same manner too. Swipe in either direction on alerts to take 
>> action or clear them. Swipe from either edge of the display to launch 
>> the camera or view your Today panel.
>> Oh, and your notification feed will be broken up into Most Recent and 
>> Earlier Today (Yesterday, and so on) sections.
>> 
>> No more Force Touch for quick app switching When Apple announced the 
>> iPhone 6 ($370.79 at Amazon.com), complete with a pressure sensitive 
>> screen, the company also added a shortcut to quickly switch between 
>> apps by pressing on the left edge of the display.
>> With iOS 11, that gesture is gone. Go ahead, press as hard as you 
>> want. It's simply not going to work.
>> Time to go back to double-pressing the home button.
>> 
>> Drag-and-drop isn't just for iPad
>> Jason Cipriani/CNET
>> Apple touted the iPad's new drag-and-drop feature when it unveiled iOS
>> 11 in June, but what the company didn't tell us is the iPhone has it 
>> too; albeit in very limited situations.
>> In the Photos app, for example, you can drag a photo to an album 
>> instead of tapping around.
>> Here's how you can try it: Place a finger on a photo until it starts 
>> to hover. Tap on the Albums tab on the bottom of the screen (or drag 
>> the photo to the tab). Then drop the photo in whichever album you want. 
>> Neat, right?
>> 
>> NFC is open for all
>> An example of the NFC 

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Donna Goodin]

Very well said, Scott.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:59 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Kawal, I think you’ve completely missed the point of what Apple is doing and 
> I totally disagree with you.
> 
> These articles are critical because there isn’t that much of a difference 
> between our use cases and the sited community.  Apple doesn’t view us as a 
> totally different group.  We’re not shielded from the visual in their design. 
>  As you know the IOS or OS X usage model gives we blind users a better idea 
> of what’s physically on the screen, object placement and the GUI in general.  
> Unlike a JFW where the screens are totally repackaged in to a more list form 
> interface Voice Over sticks more to the actual screen format and doesn’t 
> shield me from items that many screen readers do.
>   Next, I don’t live in a vacuum of only blind people.  I’m just as 
> interested in one method of doing things as another as I have to support 
> sited people.
> 
> I think fragmenting us even further like that only serves to harm us as in 
> all things, if you’re not interested use your delete key or build appropriate 
> filters but I think a lot of us on list are very interested in this sort of 
> article.  I’m very interested in new features.  Good thing with Apple is a 
> new feature is a new feature, it’s not a new feature for the blind or a new 
> sited feature, it’s just a feature.  Voice Over in Apple’s world is just a 
> feature to be developed like all others.  I like that model.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Mark.
>> 
>> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is 
>> going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a 
>> sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the 
>> phone in the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using 
>> Voice Over.  So all these things would be better if we were going to learn 
>> how to do these things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind 
>> users.  If I wanted to know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted 
>> person did, then I could find that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these 
>> articles in my opinion do not belong on a blindness list like this.  Many 
>> others will say other wise but I am a blind user using voice over and not a 
>> blind person using my phone in the sighted manner of a person who has sight 
>> and can use the phone in the main stream kind of way.
>> I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to understand, 
>> what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to understand all 
>> this.
>> No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as 
>> I will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use my 
>> I phone as a sighted person can.
>> Kawal.
>>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:34, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> CNET How To - Friday, August 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM
>>> 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
>>> With iOS 11 expected to officially launch this fall, it's a good idea to
>>> know just what you're in for after you install the latest and greatest Apple
>>> has to offer to the iPhone. The new OS is full of small, subtle tweaks, but
>>> there are also some bigger changes that will undoubtedly take some getting
>>> used to. 
>>> 
>>> Notification Center is no more
>>> Jason Cipriani/CNET 
>>> Well, that's not completely true. It's still there, it's just that now it's
>>> called Cover Sheet.
>>> 
>>> Cover Sheet looks a lot like the standard iOS lock screen and works in the
>>> same manner too. Swipe in either direction on alerts to take action or clear
>>> them. Swipe from either edge of the display to launch the camera or view
>>> your Today panel.
>>> Oh, and your notification feed will be broken up into Most Recent and
>>> Earlier Today (Yesterday, and so on) sections.
>>> 
>>> No more Force Touch for quick app switching
>>> When Apple announced the iPhone 6 ($370.79 at Amazon.com), complete with a
>>> pressure sensitive screen, the company also added a shortcut to quickly
>>> switch between apps by pressing on the left edge of the display.
>>> With iOS 11, that gesture is gone. Go ahead, press as hard as you want. It's
>>> simply not going to work.
>>> Time to go back to double-pressing the home button.
>>> 
>>> Drag-and-drop isn't just for iPad
>>> Jason Cipriani/CNET 
>>> Apple touted the iPad's new drag-and-drop feature when it unveiled iOS 11 in
>>> June, but what the company didn't tell us is the iPhone has it too; albeit
>>> in very limited situations.
>>> In the Photos app, for example, you can drag a photo to an album instead of
>>> tapping around. 
>>> Here's how you can try it: Place a finger on a photo until it starts to
>>> hover. Tap on the Albums tab on the bottom of the screen (or drag the photo
>>> to the tab). 

Familiar iOS Charge Chime

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Found this a couple of years ago, so some of you may already have had some fun 
with it.  Credit to OS X Daily for this.

Would you like your Mac to make a sound when the charge cable is connected, 
like your iOS device does?  Newer MacBooks already do this, but as long as you 
have 10.10.3 or higher and a Mac laptop, you can enable this feature.  I use it 
and like it a lot as I can know for sure that my cable has initiated the 
charging cycle audibly.  Instructions below:

To enable Playing a Power Chime Sound Effect on a MacBook Pro & MacBook Air
Disconnect the Mac from the MagSafe power source
Open the Terminal app, found in /Applications/Utilities/
Enter the following command syntax, be sure there are no breaks as you’ll want 
to fit the entire sequence onto a single line (no it doesn’t matter if it 
wraps):
defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool true; open 
/System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app &

Hit Return
Re-connect the MacBook power supply to hear the chime
This will enable the feature through the defaults command string and 
simultaneously launch the PowerChime application, the latter tiny app must be 
running in order for the power chime sound effect to trigger.

Now you just have to disconnect your MagSafe (or USB-C) power connector from 
the Mac, wait a second or two, then reconnect it. You’ll hear the familiar 
power connected / charging sound effect from your iPhone and iPad devices.

You can also trigger the sound effect manually, maybe you like the way it 
sounds or you’re just curious what we’re talking about here. Use the following 
command to play the power chime sound effect:

afplay 
/System/Library/CoreServices/PowerChime.app/Contents/Resources/connect_power.aif

To disable the Chime Sound Effect on Power Cable Connect in Mac OS X
You can also turn off the power chime sound effect when you connect a power 
cable to a Mac by issuing a different defaults command string within the OS X 
Terminal:

defaults write com.apple.PowerChime ChimeOnAllHardware -bool false;killall 
PowerChime

This will disable the sound effect when connecting a power cable on the MacBook 
Air, MacBook Pro, and yes, it will also disable the power chime sound effect on 
the MacBook line as well.

Many new MacBook owners have noticed this little feature, but the source of the 
audio was uncovered by @zwaldowski, who reports that some Macs will even have a 
vibrating trackpad with this feature enabled (a new Retina MacBook Pro does not 
offer that aspect).

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Scott Granados]

Last time I checked, we live in a sited world.  That’s pretty much the answer 
to your sited perspective question.  I for one prefer this perspective because 
I do.not live in a blind bubble.

That’s me though, I know there’s a lot of different viewpoints out there.

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things with 
> Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the operating 
> system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to date 
> with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective, as I will 
> learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use the I phone a 
> sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when my father got his 
> I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to him that I could not 
> understand his question because I did not use Zoom and could not understand 
> what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted people most of the day at work 
> as well as with my family as no one is a blind person there, and thus if 
> anyone wants to know anything about the phone, I can only explain it in the 
> concept of voice over.  That is what I'm trying to say, I am only able to 
> concept the I phone with voice over and I can't understand the sighted way.  
> I would if I had seen but I have not and that is why when I read these 
> articles, there is something missing, my sight and the frustration begins 
> from my side.
> 
> I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading these 
> articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do it in the 
> sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read everything but 
> the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do to use the phone in the 
> way my sighted peers do use it.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Kawal,
>> 
>> First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you, I am 
>> a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac OS via 
>> VoiceOver.  
>> 
>> Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone 
>> updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology 
>> news that, sighted or not, affects us all.
>> 
>> Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will continue to 
>> post the articles to the list and those who are not interested can simply 
>> delete/ignore them.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
>> To: Macvisionaries
>> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
>> 
>> Hello Mark.
>> 
>> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is 
>> going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a 
>> sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the 
>> phone in the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using 
>> Voice Over.  So all these things would be better if we were going to learn 
>> how to do these things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind 
>> users.  If I wanted to know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted 
>> person did, then I could find that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these 
>> articles in my opinion do not belong on a blindness list like this.  Many 
>> others will say other wise but I am a blind user using voice over and not a 
>> blind person using my phone in the sighted manner of a person who has sight 
>> and can use the phone in the main stream kind of way.
>> I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to understand, 
>> what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to understand all 
>> this.
>> No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as 
>> I will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use my 
>> I phone as a sighted person can.
>> Kawal.
>>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:34, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> CNET How To - Friday, August 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM
>>> 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET With iOS 11 
>>> expected to officially launch this fall, it's a good idea to know just 
>>> what you're in for after you install the latest and greatest Apple has 
>>> to offer to the iPhone. The new OS is full of small, subtle tweaks, 
>>> but there are also some bigger changes that will undoubtedly take some 
>>> getting used to.
>>> 
>>> Notification Center is no more
>>> Jason Cipriani/CNET
>>> Well, that's not completely true. It's still there, it's just that now 
>>> it's called Cover Sheet.
>>> 
>>> Cover Sheet looks a lot like the standard iOS lock screen and works in 
>>> the same manner too. Swipe in either direction on alerts to 

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Scott Granados]

Kawal, I think you’ve completely missed the point of what Apple is doing and I 
totally disagree with you.

These articles are critical because there isn’t that much of a difference 
between our use cases and the sited community.  Apple doesn’t view us as a 
totally different group.  We’re not shielded from the visual in their design.  
As you know the IOS or OS X usage model gives we blind users a better idea of 
what’s physically on the screen, object placement and the GUI in general.  
Unlike a JFW where the screens are totally repackaged in to a more list form 
interface Voice Over sticks more to the actual screen format and doesn’t shield 
me from items that many screen readers do.
Next, I don’t live in a vacuum of only blind people.  I’m just as 
interested in one method of doing things as another as I have to support sited 
people.

I think fragmenting us even further like that only serves to harm us as in all 
things, if you’re not interested use your delete key or build appropriate 
filters but I think a lot of us on list are very interested in this sort of 
article.  I’m very interested in new features.  Good thing with Apple is a new 
feature is a new feature, it’s not a new feature for the blind or a new sited 
feature, it’s just a feature.  Voice Over in Apple’s world is just a feature to 
be developed like all others.  I like that model.
 


> On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mark.
> 
> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is going 
> to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a sighted 
> person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the phone in 
> the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using Voice Over.  
> So all these things would be better if we were going to learn how to do these 
> things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind users.  If I 
> wanted to know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted person did, then 
> I could find that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these articles in my 
> opinion do not belong on a blindness list like this.  Many others will say 
> other wise but I am a blind user using voice over and not a blind person 
> using my phone in the sighted manner of a person who has sight and can use 
> the phone in the main stream kind of way.
> I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to understand, 
> what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to understand all 
> this.
> No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as I 
> will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use my I 
> phone as a sighted person can.
> Kawal.
>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:34, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> CNET How To - Friday, August 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM
>> 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
>> With iOS 11 expected to officially launch this fall, it's a good idea to
>> know just what you're in for after you install the latest and greatest Apple
>> has to offer to the iPhone. The new OS is full of small, subtle tweaks, but
>> there are also some bigger changes that will undoubtedly take some getting
>> used to. 
>> 
>> Notification Center is no more
>> Jason Cipriani/CNET 
>> Well, that's not completely true. It's still there, it's just that now it's
>> called Cover Sheet.
>> 
>> Cover Sheet looks a lot like the standard iOS lock screen and works in the
>> same manner too. Swipe in either direction on alerts to take action or clear
>> them. Swipe from either edge of the display to launch the camera or view
>> your Today panel.
>> Oh, and your notification feed will be broken up into Most Recent and
>> Earlier Today (Yesterday, and so on) sections.
>> 
>> No more Force Touch for quick app switching
>> When Apple announced the iPhone 6 ($370.79 at Amazon.com), complete with a
>> pressure sensitive screen, the company also added a shortcut to quickly
>> switch between apps by pressing on the left edge of the display.
>> With iOS 11, that gesture is gone. Go ahead, press as hard as you want. It's
>> simply not going to work.
>> Time to go back to double-pressing the home button.
>> 
>> Drag-and-drop isn't just for iPad
>> Jason Cipriani/CNET 
>> Apple touted the iPad's new drag-and-drop feature when it unveiled iOS 11 in
>> June, but what the company didn't tell us is the iPhone has it too; albeit
>> in very limited situations.
>> In the Photos app, for example, you can drag a photo to an album instead of
>> tapping around. 
>> Here's how you can try it: Place a finger on a photo until it starts to
>> hover. Tap on the Albums tab on the bottom of the screen (or drag the photo
>> to the tab). Then drop the photo in whichever album you want. Neat, right?
>> 
>> NFC is open for all
>> An example of the NFC prompt coming to the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus with the
>> release of iOS 11. 
>> Screenshot by Jason Cipriani/CNET 
>> 

Re: Bluetooth Keyboards

[Kliphton Miller]

Bluetooth not wifi.
Are you testing an apple beta?  want to discuss bugs with other testers?  Then 
come join a friendly, helpful, laid back community where we can squash these 
bugs together, and report them to apple. Subscribe here
public-beta-users+subscr...@groups.io
Because of the non disclosure agreement, I have to say if your not a beta 
tester, please don’t join the group.


> On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:33 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   The Apple keyboard supports wifi?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 8/7/2017 1:34 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>> The apple wifi bt keyboard.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
>> Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 10:13 AM
>> To: MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Bluetooth Keyboards
>> 
>>What is a good Bluetooth keyboard with numeric keypad for iDevices?
>> Logitech perhaps? It does not need to be foldable, tiny, less then full 
>> size. I was looking at the Apple Magic keyboard with numeric keypad but may 
>> as well consider another brand like Logitech. Thanks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
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Re: High Sierra VO Commands

[lenron brown]

yeah I hate the fact that they did that. It's really annoying, it's
already bad enough you need so many keys to do certain things

On 8/7/17, E.T.  wrote:
> Yes adding shift to the well known command is not smart. Apple
> certainly could find one that is not already in use.
>
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>"God for you is where you sweep away all the
>mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 8/7/2017 5:43 AM, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>> Hi!
>> THe speech rootor is no more.
>> Or at least not as it used to be.
>> You have to hold down vo command shift and the arrow keys to get it to
>> work.
>> I have weritten to apple about this.
>> I hate it.
>> /A
>>
>>> 7 aug. 2017 kl. 06:11 skrev E.T. :
>>>
>>>   Amending my query. Is there a list of commands that were changed or
>>> added? Such as the speech rotor. Thanks.
>>>
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>
>>> On 8/6/2017 7:33 PM, E.T. wrote:
   Is there a liar of the VO commands in the current beta?

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

>>>
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
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-- 
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762

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Re: Bluetooth Keyboards

[Erik Burggraaf]

Hi Anders and all,

Inclusive android has lots of accessible keyboard reviews.

Heere is the latest IClever:
https://www.inclusiveandroid.com/content/iclever-bluetooth-keyboard

Here is another folding full sized keyboard with less features:
https://www.inclusiveandroid.com/content/esynic-trifold-aluminum-bluetooth-keyboard

Here is a poccket sized 40 key board:
https://www.inclusiveandroid.com/content/hde-mini-wireless-bluetooth-keyboard

I've used the esynic trifold and the hte pocket size on IOS and they work 
well.  The Iclev er I haven't tried myself, but it will work as well.


If you like them, pleasee cllick through our links so we can generate money 
to develop the site.


Thanks,

Erik


On August 7, 2017 8:31:08 AM Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
Talking of bluetooth keyboards.
I would like to find a very very small keyboard that can fit in a pocket.
I have one from Deltaco but since version 9 of Ios it does not work properly.
Its extreemly small so it fits in my hand.
But the buttons are big enough for my fingers.
It can be a bit trycky to use but infact that it is so small an fits into 
my jeans pocket makes me want to find a similar device.

/A


7 aug. 2017 kl. 03:42 skrev Kliphton Miller :

It actually costs about 114 from amazon at least, and it says on there it 
only pairs to 4 devices.  I hate keypads though.  My Logitech pairs to 3 
devices, and is only 80 bucks, so I will stick to it.  JMO

On Aug 6, 2017, at 8:00 PM, Aleeha Dudley  wrote:

Hi,
Look at the Mattias bluetooth keyboard sold by A T Guys. It’s about $100, 
but can pair to up to five devices at once.

HTH,
Aleeha On Aug 6, 2017, at 5:12 PM, E.T.  wrote:


What is a good Bluetooth keyboard with numeric keypad for iDevices? 
Logitech perhaps? It does not need to be foldable, tiny, less then full 
size. I was looking at the Apple Magic keyboard with numeric keypad but may 
as well consider another brand like Logitech. Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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You received 

Re: Setting VO to factory defaults

[E.T.]

   Open VO Utility, go to the File menu and arrow down to the reset 
command.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/7/2017 5:49 AM, Michelle's Home Emails wrote:

Hi list

What is the best way to reset voiceover on my MacBook Air 13 inch 2015 model.

I want to use my braille display focus to input info but all i am getting is a 
bong sound. Interestingly enough when I log on to guest user the braille 
display does everything as  it should.
How do I reset VO and my mac to get rid of any accidental  setting I have done 
over time.

Am using sierra version and focus 14.

Kind wishes
Michelle Stevens

Sent from Michelle's  iPhone



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Re: High Sierra VO Commands

[E.T.]

   Yes adding shift to the well known command is not smart. Apple 
certainly could find one that is not already in use.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/7/2017 5:43 AM, Anders Holmberg wrote:

Hi!
THe speech rootor is no more.
Or at least not as it used to be.
You have to hold down vo command shift and the arrow keys to get it to work.
I have weritten to apple about this.
I hate it.
/A


7 aug. 2017 kl. 06:11 skrev E.T. :

  Amending my query. Is there a list of commands that were changed or added? 
Such as the speech rotor. Thanks.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/6/2017 7:33 PM, E.T. wrote:

  Is there a liar of the VO commands in the current beta?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com



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Re: Bluetooth Keyboards

[E.T.]

   The Apple keyboard supports wifi?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/7/2017 1:34 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

The apple wifi bt keyboard.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 10:13 AM
To: MacVisionaries 
Subject: Bluetooth Keyboards

What is a good Bluetooth keyboard with numeric keypad for iDevices?
Logitech perhaps? It does not need to be foldable, tiny, less then full size. I 
was looking at the Apple Magic keyboard with numeric keypad but may as well 
consider another brand like Logitech. Thanks.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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Re: Reading ePub files on the mac

[Andrew Lamanche]

Your friend could try AniceSoft EPUB Converter.app  that converts epub format 
to a number of other formats, one of them being rtf.  The application, which I 
got in 2014, still works on the latest operating system.  It's fairly 
accessible apart from the radio buttons which correspond to the various formats 
you can convert epub to but they can be labelled in voiceover with vo+/ 
command.  I can't remember now whether it was free or paid.

Good luck

Andrew


> On 6 Aug 2017, at 20:15, Kat DeNicola  wrote:
> 
> I have a friend who needs to read his ePub textbooks on the mac.  Two 
> Questions about this:
> 
> 1. I know ePub books read in iBooks, but I’m finding navigating the text 
> clunky. The up and down arrows go from page to page, it seems, and not line 
> by line, so I’m having to use the trackpad rotor on the navigation setting to 
> do that. I don’t have much experience with iBooks, and my friend even less 
> so. Is there an easier way to navigate the text?
> 
> 2. What are the options for accessible ePub readers for the mac other than 
> iBooks?
> 
>  
> Thanks!
> 
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Setting VO to factory defaults

[Michelle's Home Emails]

Hi list 

What is the best way to reset voiceover on my MacBook Air 13 inch 2015 model. 

I want to use my braille display focus to input info but all i am getting is a 
bong sound. Interestingly enough when I log on to guest user the braille 
display does everything as  it should. 
How do I reset VO and my mac to get rid of any accidental  setting I have done 
over time. 

Am using sierra version and focus 14. 

Kind wishes 
Michelle Stevens   

Sent from Michelle's  iPhone

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Re: High Sierra VO Commands

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
THe speech rootor is no more.
Or at least not as it used to be.
You have to hold down vo command shift and the arrow keys to get it to work.
I have weritten to apple about this.
I hate it.
/A

> 7 aug. 2017 kl. 06:11 skrev E.T. :
> 
>   Amending my query. Is there a list of commands that were changed or added? 
> Such as the speech rotor. Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 8/6/2017 7:33 PM, E.T. wrote:
>>   Is there a liar of the VO commands in the current beta?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
> 
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Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Sharon Hooley]

I would say that we can look at both ends, both visual and non-visual aspects 
of this technology.


> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:08 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> One perspective is to read the article and then you could be able to help 
> your sighted friends and family.
> 
> Just my thought.
> Most of the articles are saved here in my saved messages and i will read them 
> as soon i feel for it.
> /A
> 
>> 6 aug. 2017 kl. 18:33 skrev Kawal Gucukoglu :
>> 
>> What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things with 
>> Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the operating 
>> system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to date 
>> with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective, as I will 
>> learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use the I phone a 
>> sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when my father got 
>> his I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to him that I could 
>> not understand his question because I did not use Zoom and could not 
>> understand what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted people most of the 
>> day at work as well as with my family as no one is a blind person there, and 
>> thus if anyone wants to know anything about the phone, I can only explain it 
>> in the concept of voice over.  That is what I'm trying to say, I am only 
>> able to concept the I phone with voice over and I can't understand the 
>> sighted way.  I would if I had seen but I have not and that is why when I 
>> read these articles, there is something missing, my sight and the 
>> frustration begins from my side.
>> 
>> I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading these 
>> articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do it in the 
>> sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read everything but 
>> the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do to use the phone in 
>> the way my sighted peers do use it.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Kawal,
>>> 
>>> First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you, I 
>>> am a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac OS via 
>>> VoiceOver.  
>>> 
>>> Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone 
>>> updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology 
>>> news that, sighted or not, affects us all.
>>> 
>>> Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will continue 
>>> to post the articles to the list and those who are not interested can 
>>> simply delete/ignore them.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
>>> To: Macvisionaries
>>> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
>>> 
>>> Hello Mark.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is 
>>> going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a 
>>> sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the 
>>> phone in the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using 
>>> Voice Over.  So all these things would be better if we were going to learn 
>>> how to do these things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind 
>>> users.  If I wanted to know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted 
>>> person did, then I could find that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these 
>>> articles in my opinion do not belong on a blindness list like this.  Many 
>>> others will say other wise but I am a blind user using voice over and not a 
>>> blind person using my phone in the sighted manner of a person who has sight 
>>> and can use the phone in the main stream kind of way.
>>> I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to 
>>> understand, what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to 
>>> understand all this.
>>> No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as 
>>> I will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use 
>>> my I phone as a sighted person can.
>>> Kawal.
 On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:34, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 CNET How To - Friday, August 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM
 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET With iOS 11 
 expected to officially launch this fall, it's a good idea to know just 
 what you're in for after you install the latest and greatest Apple has 
 to offer to the iPhone. The new OS is full of small, subtle tweaks, 
 but there are also some bigger changes that will undoubtedly take some 
 getting used to.
 
 Notification Center is no more
 Jason Cipriani/CNET
 

Re: Reading ePub files on the mac

[Kat DeNicola]

Thanks! Downloaded it. It worked on the ePub book I have, so I’ll see if my 
friend can open his textbook in it if there’s no file protection issues.
> On Aug 6, 2017, at 12:18 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>   You’ll need to use the VoiceOver navigation commands to successfully 
> navigate books in iBooks. The regular arrows don’t work effectively.
> 
>The application, iText Express will read EPUB books as well., 
>> On Aug 6, 2017, at 3:15 PM, Kat DeNicola  wrote:
>> 
>> I have a friend who needs to read his ePub textbooks on the mac.  Two 
>> Questions about this:
>> 
>> 1. I know ePub books read in iBooks, but I’m finding navigating the text 
>> clunky. The up and down arrows go from page to page, it seems, and not line 
>> by line, so I’m having to use the trackpad rotor on the navigation setting 
>> to do that. I don’t have much experience with iBooks, and my friend even 
>> less so. Is there an easier way to navigate the text?
>> 
>> 2. What are the options for accessible ePub readers for the mac other than 
>> iBooks?
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Bluetooth Keyboards

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Talking of bluetooth keyboards.
I would like to find a very very small keyboard that can fit in a pocket.
I have one from Deltaco but since version 9 of Ios it does not work properly.
Its extreemly small so it fits in my hand.
But the buttons are big enough for my fingers.
It can be a bit trycky to use but infact that it is so small an fits into my 
jeans pocket makes me want to find a similar device.
/A

> 7 aug. 2017 kl. 03:42 skrev Kliphton Miller :
> 
> It actually costs about 114 from amazon at least, and it says on there it 
> only pairs to 4 devices.  I hate keypads though.  My Logitech pairs to 3 
> devices, and is only 80 bucks, so I will stick to it.  JMO
>> On Aug 6, 2017, at 8:00 PM, Aleeha Dudley  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, 
>> Look at the Mattias bluetooth keyboard sold by A T Guys. It’s about $100, 
>> but can pair to up to five devices at once.
>> HTH, 
>> Aleeha On Aug 6, 2017, at 5:12 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What is a good Bluetooth keyboard with numeric keypad for iDevices? 
>>> Logitech perhaps? It does not need to be foldable, tiny, less then full 
>>> size. I was looking at the Apple Magic keyboard with numeric keypad but may 
>>> as well consider another brand like Logitech. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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If you 

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Simon,

Agree 100%.
Dive in to the beta and start learning the new stuff! :)
GOD for you is the Creator of the engineers that produced Apple!
C.R.


On Aug 7, 2017, at 4:27 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

> Or try changing the world so that everyone else has to do everything the 
> blind way!
> 
> I can't get my work colleagues to use jaws or voiceover on computers and in a 
> lot of cases I can't get them to turn these products off instead they just 
> mute the computers,
> 
> If you think about what you are doing with the phone using voiceover, your 
> actually not doing a lot differently to that of a sighted user.
> 
> I have to teach or instruct sighted users how to use and or setup their 
> phones or tablets be it an IOS device or android.
> 
> Sometimes it takes a bit of work telling them what they have to find or 
> should be seeing.
> But it's what makes me a very valuable member of my team.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
> Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 4:45 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET
> 
>We share the univers with the sighted population. We are using mainstream 
> devices. Instead of making noise about the lack of blind perspectives, 
> appreciate the advancements coming our way and take comfort in knowing we 
> will not be left behind. If you are apprehensive about the changes, do not 
> yup0grade for a month or three and wait until we get the blind perspective on 
> Applevis.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 8/6/2017 9:33 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things with 
>> Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the operating 
>> system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to date 
>> with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective, as I will 
>> learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use the I phone a 
>> sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when my father got 
>> his I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to him that I could 
>> not understand his question because I did not use Zoom and could not 
>> understand what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted people most of the 
>> day at work as well as with my family as no one is a blind person there, and 
>> thus if anyone wants to know anything about the phone, I can only explain it 
>> in the concept of voice over.  That is what I'm trying to say, I am only 
>> able to concept the I phone with voice over and I can't understand the 
>> sighted way.  I would if I had seen but I have not and that is why when I 
>> read these articles, there is something missing, my sight and the 
>> frustration begins from my side.
>> 
>> I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading these 
>> articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do it in the 
>> sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read everything but 
>> the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do to use the phone in 
>> the way my sighted peers do use it.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Kawal,
>>> 
>>> First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you, I 
>>> am a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac OS via 
>>> VoiceOver.
>>> 
>>> Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone 
>>> updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology 
>>> news that, sighted or not, affects us all.
>>> 
>>> Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will continue 
>>> to post the articles to the list and those who are not interested can 
>>> simply delete/ignore them.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
>>> To: Macvisionaries
>>> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - 
>>> CNET
>>> 
>>> Hello Mark.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is 
>>> going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a 
>>> sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the 
>>> phone in the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using 
>>> Voice Over.  So all these things would be better if we were going to learn 
>>> how to do these things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind 
>>> users.  If I wanted to know how to use 

Re: Reading ePub files on the mac

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Kat,

Another free option is Adobe Digital Editions.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 6 Aug 2017, at 21:15, Kat DeNicola  wrote:
> 
> I have a friend who needs to read his ePub textbooks on the mac.  Two 
> Questions about this:
> 
> 1. I know ePub books read in iBooks, but I’m finding navigating the text 
> clunky. The up and down arrows go from page to page, it seems, and not line 
> by line, so I’m having to use the trackpad rotor on the navigation setting to 
> do that. I don’t have much experience with iBooks, and my friend even less 
> so. Is there an easier way to navigate the text?
> 
> 2. What are the options for accessible ePub readers for the mac other than 
> iBooks?
> 
>  
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
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Re: Bluetooth Keyboards

[Harry Bell]

Is the Apple Wi-fi BT keyboard still available? I couldn’t find it in the U.K. 
Apple store, only the expensive magic keyboards. 
Regards
Harry

> On 7 Aug 2017, at 09:34, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> The apple wifi bt keyboard.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
> Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 10:13 AM
> To: MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Bluetooth Keyboards
> 
>What is a good Bluetooth keyboard with numeric keypad for iDevices? 
> Logitech perhaps? It does not need to be foldable, tiny, less then full size. 
> I was looking at the Apple Magic keyboard with numeric keypad but may as well 
> consider another brand like Logitech. Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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RE: Bluetooth Keyboards

[Simon Fogarty]

The apple wifi bt keyboard.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 10:13 AM
To: MacVisionaries 
Subject: Bluetooth Keyboards

What is a good Bluetooth keyboard with numeric keypad for iDevices? 
Logitech perhaps? It does not need to be foldable, tiny, less then full size. I 
was looking at the Apple Magic keyboard with numeric keypad but may as well 
consider another brand like Logitech. Thanks.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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RE: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Simon Fogarty]

Or try changing the world so that everyone else has to do everything the blind 
way!

I can't get my work colleagues to use jaws or voiceover on computers and in a 
lot of cases I can't get them to turn these products off instead they just mute 
the computers,

If you think about what you are doing with the phone using voiceover, your 
actually not doing a lot differently to that of a sighted user.

 I have to teach or instruct sighted users how to use and or setup their phones 
or tablets be it an IOS device or android.

Sometimes it takes a bit of work telling them what they have to find or should 
be seeing.
But it's what makes me a very valuable member of my team.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 4:45 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

We share the univers with the sighted population. We are using mainstream 
devices. Instead of making noise about the lack of blind perspectives, 
appreciate the advancements coming our way and take comfort in knowing we will 
not be left behind. If you are apprehensive about the changes, do not yup0grade 
for a month or three and wait until we get the blind perspective on Applevis.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/6/2017 9:33 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things with 
> Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the operating 
> system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to date 
> with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective, as I will 
> learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use the I phone a 
> sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when my father got his 
> I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to him that I could not 
> understand his question because I did not use Zoom and could not understand 
> what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted people most of the day at work 
> as well as with my family as no one is a blind person there, and thus if 
> anyone wants to know anything about the phone, I can only explain it in the 
> concept of voice over.  That is what I'm trying to say, I am only able to 
> concept the I phone with voice over and I can't understand the sighted way.  
> I would if I had seen but I have not and that is why when I read these 
> articles, there is something missing, my sight and the frustration begins 
> from my side.
>
> I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading these 
> articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do it in the 
> sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read everything but 
> the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do to use the phone in the 
> way my sighted peers do use it.
>
> Kawal.
>> On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>
>> Hello Kawal,
>>
>> First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you, I am 
>> a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac OS via 
>> VoiceOver.
>>
>> Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone 
>> updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology 
>> news that, sighted or not, affects us all.
>>
>> Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will continue to 
>> post the articles to the list and those who are not interested can simply 
>> delete/ignore them.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
>> To: Macvisionaries
>> Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - 
>> CNET
>>
>> Hello Mark.
>>
>> Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is 
>> going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a 
>> sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the 
>> phone in the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using 
>> Voice Over.  So all these things would be better if we were going to learn 
>> how to do these things with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind 
>> users.  If I wanted to know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted 
>> person did, then I could find that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these 
>> articles in my opinion do not belong on a blindness list like this.  Many 
>> others will say other wise but I am a blind user using voice over and not a 
>> blind person using my phone in the sighted manner of a person who 

RE: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Simon Fogarty]

Mark 

I'm going to say thanks for sending these articals out.

It's great to hear what is coming in the new releases 

 Please yes keep sending them to us.

As to those that don't like it.

 Build a bridge and get over it!
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 4:17 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

Hello Kawal,

First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you, I am a 
visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac OS via 
VoiceOver.  

Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone updated 
on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology news that, 
sighted or not, affects us all.

Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will continue to 
post the articles to the list and those who are not interested can simply 
delete/ignore them.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
To: Macvisionaries
Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

Hello Mark.

Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is going 
to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a sighted 
person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the phone in the 
sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using Voice Over.  So all 
these things would be better if we were going to learn how to do these things 
with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind users.  If I wanted to 
know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted person did, then I could find 
that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these articles in my opinion do not 
belong on a blindness list like this.  Many others will say other wise but I am 
a blind user using voice over and not a blind person using my phone in the 
sighted manner of a person who has sight and can use the phone in the main 
stream kind of way.
I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to understand, 
what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to understand all this.
No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as I 
will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use my I 
phone as a sighted person can.
Kawal.
> On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:34, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> CNET How To - Friday, August 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM
> 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET With iOS 11 
> expected to officially launch this fall, it's a good idea to know just 
> what you're in for after you install the latest and greatest Apple has 
> to offer to the iPhone. The new OS is full of small, subtle tweaks, 
> but there are also some bigger changes that will undoubtedly take some 
> getting used to.
> 
> Notification Center is no more
> Jason Cipriani/CNET
> Well, that's not completely true. It's still there, it's just that now 
> it's called Cover Sheet.
> 
> Cover Sheet looks a lot like the standard iOS lock screen and works in 
> the same manner too. Swipe in either direction on alerts to take 
> action or clear them. Swipe from either edge of the display to launch 
> the camera or view your Today panel.
> Oh, and your notification feed will be broken up into Most Recent and 
> Earlier Today (Yesterday, and so on) sections.
> 
> No more Force Touch for quick app switching When Apple announced the 
> iPhone 6 ($370.79 at Amazon.com), complete with a pressure sensitive 
> screen, the company also added a shortcut to quickly switch between 
> apps by pressing on the left edge of the display.
> With iOS 11, that gesture is gone. Go ahead, press as hard as you 
> want. It's simply not going to work.
> Time to go back to double-pressing the home button.
> 
> Drag-and-drop isn't just for iPad
> Jason Cipriani/CNET
> Apple touted the iPad's new drag-and-drop feature when it unveiled iOS
> 11 in June, but what the company didn't tell us is the iPhone has it 
> too; albeit in very limited situations.
> In the Photos app, for example, you can drag a photo to an album 
> instead of tapping around.
> Here's how you can try it: Place a finger on a photo until it starts 
> to hover. Tap on the Albums tab on the bottom of the screen (or drag 
> the photo to the tab). Then drop the photo in whichever album you want. Neat, 
> right?
> 
> NFC is open for all
> An example of the NFC prompt coming to the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus with 
> the release of iOS 11.
> Screenshot by Jason Cipriani/CNET
> Apple is finally giving developers access to the iPhone's NFC 
> capabilities instead of keeping it locked to just Apple Pay.
> As developers begin to release updates for apps, you will undoubtedly 
> see the option to scan 

RE: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[Simon Fogarty]

I'm also a blind person and I also use only voiceover to access / utilise my 
iPhone and iPads feature set.

 I will thank mark for sending these emails out as they are inlightening to me 
about the features that are coming in the next device and or operating system,

 
Just because you use voiceover to access the device doesn't mean  you can't 
think about how the majority of the worlds iPhone users will benefit from it's 
new features,

 Try thinking outside your own comfort zone and maybe try thinking about how 
these new features will benefit you with vo rather than you don't know how to 
use them because it's not being described with vo functionality.

 Remember that we the blind and visually impaired users of these devices are a 
very small minority world wide, 
why would someone write an article for a publication which is aimed at all 
readers but only write the article for a very small minority group?

Remember most iPhone or IOS users on this planet probably haven't heard of 
voiceover let alone tried to see what it does or how their device works with it.

I'd suggest if you wish to know how these new features will work with voiceover 
then install the IOS 11 public beta and use it, as that is a great way to find 
out how it's working with adaptive technology.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Monday, 7 August 2017 2:44 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

Hello Mark.

Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is going 
to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what a sighted 
person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use the phone in the 
sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone using Voice Over.  So all 
these things would be better if we were going to learn how to do these things 
with voice over.  After all this is a list for blind users.  If I wanted to 
know how to use a phone in the way that a sighted person did, then I could find 
that out in other ways.  I'm sorry but these articles in my opinion do not 
belong on a blindness list like this.  Many others will say other wise but I am 
a blind user using voice over and not a blind person using my phone in the 
sighted manner of a person who has sight and can use the phone in the main 
stream kind of way.
I am not criticising you Mark but just pointing out or trying to understand, 
what are these articles to do with me as I have no sight to understand all this.
No doubt I'll have started a fresh debate on this list, so let's have it as I 
will stand my ground on the fact that I am a blind person unable to use my I 
phone as a sighted person can.
Kawal.
> On 6 Aug 2017, at 05:34, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> CNET How To - Friday, August 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM
> 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET With iOS 11 
> expected to officially launch this fall, it's a good idea to know just 
> what you're in for after you install the latest and greatest Apple has 
> to offer to the iPhone. The new OS is full of small, subtle tweaks, 
> but there are also some bigger changes that will undoubtedly take some 
> getting used to.
> 
> Notification Center is no more
> Jason Cipriani/CNET
> Well, that's not completely true. It's still there, it's just that now 
> it's called Cover Sheet.
> 
> Cover Sheet looks a lot like the standard iOS lock screen and works in 
> the same manner too. Swipe in either direction on alerts to take 
> action or clear them. Swipe from either edge of the display to launch 
> the camera or view your Today panel.
> Oh, and your notification feed will be broken up into Most Recent and 
> Earlier Today (Yesterday, and so on) sections.
> 
> No more Force Touch for quick app switching When Apple announced the 
> iPhone 6 ($370.79 at Amazon.com), complete with a pressure sensitive 
> screen, the company also added a shortcut to quickly switch between 
> apps by pressing on the left edge of the display.
> With iOS 11, that gesture is gone. Go ahead, press as hard as you 
> want. It's simply not going to work.
> Time to go back to double-pressing the home button.
> 
> Drag-and-drop isn't just for iPad
> Jason Cipriani/CNET
> Apple touted the iPad's new drag-and-drop feature when it unveiled iOS 
> 11 in June, but what the company didn't tell us is the iPhone has it 
> too; albeit in very limited situations.
> In the Photos app, for example, you can drag a photo to an album 
> instead of tapping around.
> Here's how you can try it: Place a finger on a photo until it starts 
> to hover. Tap on the Albums tab on the bottom of the screen (or drag 
> the photo to the tab). Then drop the photo in whichever album you want. Neat, 
> right?
> 
> NFC is open for all
> An example of the NFC prompt coming to the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus with 
> the release 

Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

[lenron brown]

These articles are great and show us what's coming down the pipe line.
We have access to a main stream device, why would there just be things
shown from a blindness point of view? Matter a fact that will never
happen before the device is released, because that's not what the main
stream focuses on.

On 8/6/17, David Chittenden  wrote:
> Considering that blindness, including low vision to as good as 20/200
> (6/60), which uses screen enlargement and not usually VoiceOver, is
> approximately 0.5% of the population, I would say that the sighted
> population shares the world with us, often grudgingly. If one wants things
> to be announced and explained from the blindness perspective, there are a
> few products which do most, if not all, of what the iPhone does, that are
> made for the blind. These products are bulky and expensive, but they are
> focused on our tiny market.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 7/08/2017, at 02:44, E.T.  wrote:
>>
>>   We share the univers with the sighted population. We are using
>> mainstream devices. Instead of making noise about the lack of blind
>> perspectives, appreciate the advancements coming our way and take comfort
>> in knowing we will not be left behind. If you are apprehensive about the
>> changes, do not yup0grade for a month or three and wait until we get the
>> blind perspective on Applevis.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>>> On 8/6/2017 9:33 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> What I'm trying to say in a nut shell, I want to do all these things with
>>> Voice Over and if I knew how to do these new things before the operating
>>> system came out, I'd be very happy.  I also know we need to keep up to
>>> date with what's going on but why is it always a sighted prospective, as
>>> I will learn to do these things with voice over as I simply can't use the
>>> I phone a sighted way.  I'll give you an example.  Most recently when my
>>> father got his I phone, he asked me something about zoom.  I said to him
>>> that I could not understand his question because I did not use Zoom and
>>> could not understand what he wanted to know.  I am around sighted people
>>> most of the day at work as well as with my family as no one is a blind
>>> person there, and thus if anyone wants to know anything about the phone,
>>> I can only explain it in the concept of voice over.  That is what I'm
>>> trying to say, I am only able to concept the I phone with voice over and
>>> I can't understand the sighted way.  I would if I had seen but I have not
>>> and that is why when I read these articles, there is something missing,
>>> my sight and the frustration begins from my side.
>>>
>>> I hope all of you can understand what I'm trying to say, I am reading
>>> these articles not because I'm not interested, but because I can't do it
>>> in the sighted way and that is where my problems begin.  I will read
>>> everything but the lack of sight is making me miss what I need to do to
>>> use the phone in the way my sighted peers do use it.
>>>
>>> Kawal.
 On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:16, M. Taylor  wrote:

 Hello Kawal,

 First, I fully appreciate the sentiment of your comments for, like you,
 I am a visually impaired iPhone user interacting with both iOS and Mac
 OS via VoiceOver.

 Second, the primary purpose of posting the articles is to keep everyone
 updated on the changing policies, concepts, and general Apple technology
 news that, sighted or not, affects us all.

 Finally, there really is no need for an on-list debate as I will
 continue to post the articles to the list and those who are not
 interested can simply delete/ignore them.

 Mark

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:44 AM
 To: Macvisionaries
 Subject: Re: 7 drastic changes coming to your iPhone with iOS 11 - CNET

 Hello Mark.

 Thanks for posting these articles.  However, I'd prefer to know what is
 going to happen to the I phone with Voice Over rather than knowing what
 a sighted person will be able to do with an I phone because I don't use
 the phone in the sighted way.  I double tap and interact with my phone
 using Voice Over.  So all these things would be better if we were going
 to learn how to do these things with voice over.  After all this is a
 list for blind users.  If I wanted to know how to use a phone in the way
 that a sighted person did, then I could find that