Re: iTunes Library

2019-01-30 Thread 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
   We have some good people who do greet great problem solving. You are 
one of those and I thank you for being here.


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   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
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On 1/30/2019 5:02 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi,


Good work.

  Later...


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:50 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Finally got it all resolved. Apparently an iTunes update late last year that 
hid the Home Videos in the library sidebar. Once I unhid it, I was able to get 
it all sorted out in both iTunes on the Mac and on my ATV.

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Re: iTunes Library

2019-01-30 Thread 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
Hi,


Good work. 

 Later... 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:50 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Finally got it all resolved. Apparently an iTunes update late last year 
> that hid the Home Videos in the library sidebar. Once I unhid it, I was able 
> to get it all sorted out in both iTunes on the Mac and on my ATV.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
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iTunes Library

2019-01-30 Thread 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
   Finally got it all resolved. Apparently an iTunes update late last 
year that hid the Home Videos in the library sidebar. Once I unhid it, I 
was able to get it all sorted out in both iTunes on the Mac and on my ATV.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
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Re: Iphone XR.

2019-01-30 Thread Jessica Moss
I  thought the otter  box case came with a built-in screen protecter.

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:50 PM, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
> I’m pleased with the Otterbox.  You also need a screen protector.
> Chris
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Any good  protection for the Iphone XR.
>> I actually will get mine tomorrow or on friday maybe.
>> I got it on a data plan but i do want some good protection.
>> Maybe the otterbox defender case.
>> /A
>> 
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Re: OGG sound files?

2019-01-30 Thread Raymond Foret Jr
Amadeus Pro is indeed capable of saving to OGG.


Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the pointers!
> I hadn’t realized how vital a project this is. I had heard a bit about the 
> MP3 restrictions, but the encoders seem so baked into most systems that I had 
> forgotten this entire history. For the creative folks out there reading about 
> the development of this format is worth  understanding.
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Georgina Joyce > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Amadeus Pro or investigate the vorbis tools I’m sure if you run home brew or 
>> Mac ports you can install Vorbis tools.
>>   
>> HTH
>> 
>> Gena
>>> On 30 Jan 2019, at 15:19, Jonathan Cohn >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I looked at Quicktime, but not iTunes. Apparently these are  actually 
>>> animations with sound, that client wants to be able to store in an open 
>>> format.  In any case, I’ll go look at iTunes to see what is there.
>>> 
 On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:14 AM, Simon Fogarty >>> > wrote:
 
 Jonathan,
 
 Doesn't itunes allow you to do this?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  >>> > On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
 Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:47 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: OGG sound files?
 
 I have been asked to create a sound file in OGG format. Anybody have a 
 reasonable tool for doing this?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Jonathan Cohn 
 
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Re: Iphone XR.

2019-01-30 Thread Chris Moore
I’m pleased with the Otterbox.  You also need a screen protector.
Chris

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Any good  protection for the Iphone XR.
> I actually will get mine tomorrow or on friday maybe.
> I got it on a data plan but i do want some good protection.
> Maybe the otterbox defender case.
> /A
> 
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Iphone XR.

2019-01-30 Thread Anders Holmberg
Hi!
Any good  protection for the Iphone XR.
I actually will get mine tomorrow or on friday maybe.
I got it on a data plan but i do want some good protection.
Maybe the otterbox defender case.
/A

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Re: OGG sound files?

2019-01-30 Thread Anders Holmberg
Hi!
Audaciy can store in .ogg.
However i don’t know how audacity works these days.
There once was an accessible version but they stopped that for some reason.
Amadeus pro can do ogg i think.
/A

> 30 jan. 2019 kl. 16:19 skrev Jonathan Cohn :
> 
> I looked at Quicktime, but not iTunes. Apparently these are  actually 
> animations with sound, that client wants to be able to store in an open 
> format.  In any case, I’ll go look at iTunes to see what is there.
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:14 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> Doesn't itunes allow you to do this?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>> Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:47 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: OGG sound files?
>> 
>> I have been asked to create a sound file in OGG format. Anybody have a 
>> reasonable tool for doing this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jonathan Cohn 
>> 
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Re: OGG sound files?

2019-01-30 Thread Jonathan Cohn
Thanks for the pointers!
I hadn’t realized how vital a project this is. I had heard a bit about the MP3 
restrictions, but the encoders seem so baked into most systems that I had 
forgotten this entire history. For the creative folks out there reading about 
the development of this format is worth  understanding.

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Amadeus Pro or investigate the vorbis tools I’m sure if you run home brew or 
> Mac ports you can install Vorbis tools.
>   
> HTH
> 
> Gena
>> On 30 Jan 2019, at 15:19, Jonathan Cohn > > wrote:
>> 
>> I looked at Quicktime, but not iTunes. Apparently these are  actually 
>> animations with sound, that client wants to be able to store in an open 
>> format.  In any case, I’ll go look at iTunes to see what is there.
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:14 AM, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathan,
>>> 
>>> Doesn't itunes allow you to do this?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  >> > On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:47 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: OGG sound files?
>>> 
>>> I have been asked to create a sound file in OGG format. Anybody have a 
>>> reasonable tool for doing this?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Jonathan Cohn 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
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>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Two Factor Authentication

2019-01-30 Thread 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
   The problem I had was I had to simply stop trying and wait. I 
managed to get it done this morning.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/30/2019 1:13 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

I'd go for the one received latest.

-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:23 AM
To: MacVisionaries 
Subject: Two Factor Authentication

 Running Mojave. I had occasion to deal with this today on the Mac. I 
received a verification code on both the Mac and on the iPhone. Does it matter 
which one I enter?

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Re: iTunes Library Issues

2019-01-30 Thread 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
   Yes of course. Everything is fine except in the Home Videos 
category. And the odd thing is that within iTunes on the Mac its in 
better shape but still not quite right. Very strange.


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   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
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in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/30/2019 1:01 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Interesting,

As Tim said can you find them under computers?

-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2019 7:24 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: iTunes Library Issues

 M4V. The 'missing' titles seem to be ones I added back in September, about 
the time I upgraded to Mojave. And perhaps iTunes 12.9 at that time.

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 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
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On 1/28/2019 9:45 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Hi ET,

Ust wondering on this,

What format are these home videos in?

Mp4,MKV etc?

I'm wondering if it might be more of a file format issue than ATV / itunes 
having the issue.
-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2019 12:04 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: iTunes Library Issues

Hi Tim,
  I am spinning my wheels on ice regarding iTunes. I booted High Sierra 
from its USB drive. It has iTunes version 12.8 (current is 12.9).
I wanted to see if my home videos were there but the 12.8 will not read a 
database file created in the newer version.

  Any idea what or how Apple TV accesses iTunes content? Content from the 
iTunes store is fine, its just Home Videos. This is so weird because the list 
of Home Videos is different in both ATV and in the iTunes list inside the 
Movies section. An example is in one genre in iTunes there are 37 titles where 
in ATV its 41 which is correct. In ATV one genre is missing and the titles that 
should be in there are in a different genre but its correct in iTunes.

  Any thoughts on how to get all this in sync? I had tried moving the .itl 
file to see if it would be recreated but iTunes will not open without it. 
Thanks Tim!

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Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were
true?

On 1/27/2019 4:39 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi,

So, these are videos that you've ripped yourself that are not in the
iTunes Library on your Mac?  I assume that this is when you're
navigating from within the Computers section on the ATV?  Otherwise,
there's no real reason for them to be exactly the same as Home videos
are not stored in the Cloud.  This is also rather odd, as it is
usually the other way around, where The Apple TV does not display all
the titles that the Mac does.  Do you know which titles are missing?
Have you searched for them from within the Finder?

Later...
Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jan 26, 2019, at 17:33, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

     Latest Mojave and iTunes. I found that what I see on my Apple TV
does not match what I see in iTunes on the Mac. I see all of the
content in the Home Videos folder, all of it on the Apple TV, but not
all of it in iTunes on the Mac.

     I tried launching iTunes while holding down the option key and
choosing the library. No change. Then I moved the database file and
repeating launching iTunes while holding down the option key and
choosing the library. No go.

     What else can I try? Thanks.

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Re: OGG sound files?

2019-01-30 Thread Georgina Joyce
Hello,

Amadeus Pro or investigate the vorbis tools I’m sure if you run home brew or 
Mac ports you can install Vorbis tools.
  
HTH

Gena
> On 30 Jan 2019, at 15:19, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I looked at Quicktime, but not iTunes. Apparently these are  actually 
> animations with sound, that client wants to be able to store in an open 
> format.  In any case, I’ll go look at iTunes to see what is there.
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:14 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> Doesn't itunes allow you to do this?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>> Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:47 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: OGG sound files?
>> 
>> I have been asked to create a sound file in OGG format. Anybody have a 
>> reasonable tool for doing this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jonathan Cohn 
>> 
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Gena

Call: M0EBP
Loc: IO83PS



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Re: OGG sound files?

2019-01-30 Thread Jonathan Cohn
I looked at Quicktime, but not iTunes. Apparently these are  actually 
animations with sound, that client wants to be able to store in an open format. 
 In any case, I’ll go look at iTunes to see what is there.

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 4:14 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> Doesn't itunes allow you to do this?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:47 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: OGG sound files?
> 
> I have been asked to create a sound file in OGG format. Anybody have a 
> reasonable tool for doing this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
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Some iTunes questions?

2019-01-30 Thread Matt Turner
Hi folks.
First of all,.
I have some dvd movies, that I’ve ripped in Flac.
I’ve ripped them in Flac, so I could keep the 5.1 channel surround sound format 
audio.
I’ve tryed converting them to m4a, and aiff, but iTunes doesn’t seem to like to 
play audio files with 5.1 channels.
Anyone have any ideas, how to get iTunes to play those 5.1 channel files?
1 more thing.
So I’m triing to create a smart playlist, of podcast.
If the podcast has been unplayed, I want to have it show up in the list.
I can’t seem to get that to work either.
Anyway, thanks.

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RE: Finger print ID

2019-01-30 Thread Simon Fogarty
Morning list,

Mark, 
I'm not sure we should trust this guy,
He sounds prettydodgie,
And he's a kiwi, not as bad as Canadians or austrailians but still pretty bad!
But seriously,

Hi Petrus,
Welcome to the list,
Glad you joined,

Some very smart people on here and some odd alien types as well,

Sorry in this case I'm out of info.

Flick me an email if you need anything off list as well.
  
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 8:11 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Finger print ID

Hello all,
My name is Petrus and I’m a new kid on the block. I got a MacBook Pro for Xmas 
and I’m still learning how to use it. 
Not sure if anyone else has noticed this? But I have the finger print ID set up 
and it mostly works fine. But the Mac wants me to confirm my fingerprint ID 
once a week by entering my password. This usually happens on a Monday, and I 
first thought it was because I didn’t use the Mac on the weekends. But it 
happened again this week after I used the Mac on Saturday and Sunday. 
I don’t mind as it is easy enough to type in my password, but I was wondering 
if others have noticed this?
Thank you,
Petrus 

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RE: Two Factor Authentication

2019-01-30 Thread Simon Fogarty
I'd go for the one received latest.

-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:23 AM
To: MacVisionaries 
Subject: Two Factor Authentication

Running Mojave. I had occasion to deal with this today on the Mac. I 
received a verification code on both the Mac and on the iPhone. Does it matter 
which one I enter?

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ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

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RE: Finger print ID

2019-01-30 Thread Simon Fogarty
It wasn’t a holiday for me buddy,
Only you guys with the heat wave!

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:50 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Finger print ID

Hi Tim,
Thanks for that, it explains a lot. I used the Mac on Sunday and Monday was a 
holiday here in NZ so I didn’t use it again until Tuesday. So that is the 
48hours condition.
Petrus


On 30/01/2019, at 9:14 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Petrus,

Welcome to the list.  According to Apple documentation, in some situations, you 
need to enter your password instead of using Touch ID.  These situations 
include:

• If you've just restarted your Mac
• If you've logged out of your user account
• If your fingerprint isn't recognized five times in a row
• If you haven't unlocked your Mac in more than 48 hours
• If you've just enrolled or deleted fingerprints

In addition to this, if your Mac is set to automatically log out after a 
certain time of being idle, even though you didn't log out yourself, the system 
has logged you out, so the second bulleted item is satisfied.  That setting is 
found under the General pane of Security & Privacy in System Prefs within the 
Advanced section.  For security purposes, either this setting should be left 
enabled, or having your machine require sign in after sleep or screen saver, 
which is also found in the General tab of the Security & Privacy pane of System 
Prefs.

HTH.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jan 29, 2019, at 12:11, Petrus Tuerlings 
mailto:petrus.t...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hello all,
My name is Petrus and I’m a new kid on the block. I got a MacBook Pro for Xmas 
and I’m still learning how to use it.
Not sure if anyone else has noticed this? But I have the finger print ID set up 
and it mostly works fine. But the Mac wants me to confirm my fingerprint ID 
once a week by entering my password. This usually happens on a Monday, and I 
first thought it was because I didn’t use the Mac on the weekends. But it 
happened again this week after I used the Mac on Saturday and Sunday.
I don’t mind as it is easy enough to type in my password, but I was wondering 
if others have noticed this?
Thank you,
Petrus

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RE: OGG sound files?

2019-01-30 Thread Simon Fogarty
Jonathan,

Doesn't itunes allow you to do this?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 10:47 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: OGG sound files?

I have been asked to create a sound file in OGG format. Anybody have a 
reasonable tool for doing this?

Thanks,

Jonathan Cohn 

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RE: Finger print ID

2019-01-30 Thread Simon Fogarty
Hi Tim,

Sounds somewhat similar to what happens with the iPhone and iPads with touch ID.



From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2019 9:14 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Finger print ID

Hi Petrus,

Welcome to the list.  According to Apple documentation, in some situations, you 
need to enter your password instead of using Touch ID.  These situations 
include:

• If you've just restarted your Mac
• If you've logged out of your user account
• If your fingerprint isn't recognized five times in a row
• If you haven't unlocked your Mac in more than 48 hours
• If you've just enrolled or deleted fingerprints

In addition to this, if your Mac is set to automatically log out after a 
certain time of being idle, even though you didn't log out yourself, the system 
has logged you out, so the second bulleted item is satisfied.  That setting is 
found under the General pane of Security & Privacy in System Prefs within the 
Advanced section.  For security purposes, either this setting should be left 
enabled, or having your machine require sign in after sleep or screen saver, 
which is also found in the General tab of the Security & Privacy pane of System 
Prefs.

HTH.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jan 29, 2019, at 12:11, Petrus Tuerlings 
mailto:petrus.t...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hello all,
My name is Petrus and I’m a new kid on the block. I got a MacBook Pro for Xmas 
and I’m still learning how to use it.
Not sure if anyone else has noticed this? But I have the finger print ID set up 
and it mostly works fine. But the Mac wants me to confirm my fingerprint ID 
once a week by entering my password. This usually happens on a Monday, and I 
first thought it was because I didn’t use the Mac on the weekends. But it 
happened again this week after I used the Mac on Saturday and Sunday.
I don’t mind as it is easy enough to type in my password, but I was wondering 
if others have noticed this?
Thank you,
Petrus

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RE: iTunes Library Issues

2019-01-30 Thread Simon Fogarty
Interesting,

As Tim said can you find them under computers?

-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2019 7:24 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: iTunes Library Issues

M4V. The 'missing' titles seem to be ones I added back in September, about 
the time I upgraded to Mojave. And perhaps iTunes 12.9 at that time.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/28/2019 9:45 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
> Hi ET,
> 
> Ust wondering on this,
> 
> What format are these home videos in?
> 
> Mp4,MKV etc?
> 
> I'm wondering if it might be more of a file format issue than ATV / itunes 
> having the issue.
> -Original Message-
> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2019 12:04 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: iTunes Library Issues
> 
> Hi Tim,
>  I am spinning my wheels on ice regarding iTunes. I booted High Sierra 
> from its USB drive. It has iTunes version 12.8 (current is 12.9).
> I wanted to see if my home videos were there but the 12.8 will not read a 
> database file created in the newer version.
> 
>  Any idea what or how Apple TV accesses iTunes content? Content from the 
> iTunes store is fine, its just Home Videos. This is so weird because the list 
> of Home Videos is different in both ATV and in the iTunes list inside the 
> Movies section. An example is in one genre in iTunes there are 37 titles 
> where in ATV its 41 which is correct. In ATV one genre is missing and the 
> titles that should be in there are in a different genre but its correct in 
> iTunes.
> 
>  Any thoughts on how to get all this in sync? I had tried moving the .itl 
> file to see if it would be recreated but iTunes will not open without it. 
> Thanks Tim!
> 
>   From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
> true?
> 
> On 1/27/2019 4:39 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> So, these are videos that you've ripped yourself that are not in the 
>> iTunes Library on your Mac?  I assume that this is when you're 
>> navigating from within the Computers section on the ATV?  Otherwise, 
>> there's no real reason for them to be exactly the same as Home videos 
>> are not stored in the Cloud.  This is also rather odd, as it is 
>> usually the other way around, where The Apple TV does not display all 
>> the titles that the Mac does.  Do you know which titles are missing?
>> Have you searched for them from within the Finder?
>>
>> Later...
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2019, at 17:33, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>>     Latest Mojave and iTunes. I found that what I see on my Apple TV 
>> does not match what I see in iTunes on the Mac. I see all of the 
>> content in the Home Videos folder, all of it on the Apple TV, but not 
>> all of it in iTunes on the Mac.
>>
>>     I tried launching iTunes while holding down the option key and 
>> choosing the library. No change. Then I moved the database file and 
>> repeating launching iTunes while holding down the option key and 
>> choosing the library. No go.
>>
>>     What else can I try? Thanks.
>>
>>   From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>> true?
>>
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn
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