Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

['Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Cara. Well I'm glad everything's back up and running with you guys over at 
VIPhone. I'm just hoping that the same outcome doesn't happen with this group. 
As for VIPhone, I'm thinking I may return. I just needed a break from the drama 
pool that was cluttering my inbox every day. So I may click on that subscribe 
link and rejoin you.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

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> On Jan 26, 2022, at 6:19 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I have some good news!
> 
> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
> 
> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
> 
> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites we 
> can send out each day.
> 
> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is the 
> link to the group page.
> 
> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
> 
> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of people 
> and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than what we 
> had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
> 
> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you all 
> a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: Apple Pay

['Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries]

Hi. Interesting that y'all in the States can't use Apple Pay At Walmart. I live 
in Winnipeg Canada and the Walmarts here finally started allowing Apple Pay as 
an option. So yeah, I use it all the time and like Kawal, I mostly use my watch 
for it unless it's charging at which point I use my iPhone SE 2020.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

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> On Jan 26, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Greg Wocher  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> No you cannot use apple pay at walmart. The only way to do contactless 
> payments is thru the walmart pay app. 
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 7:52 AM, Phil Halton > > wrote:
>> 
>> A lot changes in the span of a year. Or, maybe that cashier was 
>> ill-informed. At any rate I’ll bet you can use Apple Pay at Walmart I would 
>> be shocked if you couldn’t. As far as at the self check outs don’t know 
>> about that. But I’ve never used the self checkouts anyway I don’t see why 
>> they wouldn’t.
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 5:45 PM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> ApplePay is accepted at Target.
>>> Target also provides free Aira access, which also is not provided at 
>>> Walmart.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 14:30, joseph hudson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow that's good to know. I wish they did.
>>> Joseph Hudson
>>> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@twc.com 
>>> Technology support for the blind
>>> Telephone
>>> 254-300-7667
>>> 
>>> Emergency cell
>>> 
>>> 254-813-2461
>>> Skype
>>> joseph.hudson89 
>>> 
>>> facebook
>>> https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 
>>> 
>>> Twitter
>>> https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 
>>> 
 On Jan 25, 2022, at 2:28 PM, 'Robert Cole' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 About a year ago, a WalMart Cashier told me that they did not do Apple Pay.
 
 
> On Jan 25, 2022, at 2:38 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
> 
> Good information to have. As I haven't done this yet before. But I might 
> the next time that I have to try to pay for something. Does anybody know 
> if these work at the self checkouts? That would be awesome if it did. And 
> I'm talking at places such as Walmart. Or even Sam's.
> 
>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:04 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> And by “point “, Joseph means put the phone within a few inches of the 
>> card reader. I don’t think simply aiming the phone at the reader does 
>> any good because they are “Nearfield readers “.
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 1:04 AM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
>>> 
>>> oh ok. so that's what that double click thing was about when I was 
>>> setting up. thanks.
>>> 
 On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:47 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
 
 Lorie, if you double click the home button, with the screen locked, 
 there will be an Apple Pay interface that pops up. You'll want to 
 point your phone at the register with the Apple Pay symbol on it.
 
>> On Jan 24, 2022, at 6:19 PM, Lorie McCloud  
>> wrote:
> 
> How do I use Apple pay on my phone in a store or restaurant?
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
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Re: Apple Mail Question

[Lorie McCloud]

I only have 2 gmail folders but I'm having trouble understanding this layout. 
I'll fiddle around with it some more.

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> It will be towards the bottom after all your Gmail folders. Might help to to 
> hav them collapsed.
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 14:03, Lorie McCloud > > wrote:
>> 
>> I don't think I've ever seen that folder. guess I'll have to look around 
>> some more.
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:20 AM, Herbie Allen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> In your list of mailboxes. In mine at least, I have to go down past the 
>>> sink issues folder.
>>> 
 On Jan 27, 2022, at 01:02, Lorie McCloud >>> > wrote:
 
 I have another Apple mail question. I have 2 email accounts, gmail and 
 iCloud. once in awhile I want to go and dig an email out of the trash or 
 at least look at it. I can find the trash for gmail but not for iCloud. 
 pressing right arrow to expand the trash doesn't seem to do any good. 
 where is the iCloud trash? this is in Monterey.
 
 thanks.
 Lorie
 
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Brad Snyder  > wrote:
> 
> Yes, it sounds like your student has Column View enabled, and you do not.
> Actually, I much prefer Column View, but that is an individual choice.
> 
> Column View can be enabled/disabled by going to the Menu Bar > View, and 
> pressing the Down Arrow until you get to Column View.  Now press the 
> Enter key to either select (check) or deselect (uncheck) as you prefer.
> 
> As Herbie stated, make sure that your student has QuickNav turned off, or 
> uses the VO modifier when navigating, after interacting with the Mailbox 
> contents table.
> Note:  With QuickNav turned off, the Mailbox contents table may be 
> navigated without interacting with the table.  The same is true for the 
> Mailbox list.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 23:17, Herbie Allen  > wrote:
> 
> Make sure use column layout is unchecked in the view menu. If quicknav is 
> off, then she should be able to go through the mail list without 
> interacting.
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 20:16, Holly Jensen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I am teaching a student how to access mail with Voiceover on her Mac. 
>> When she interacts with the table that holds her mail messages, she gets 
>> this table with a lot of columns. When I do it on my Mac, it only reads 
>> the subject and then the preview. for the life of me, I cannot remember 
>> how I set it up to do that, or if I even did. She is running OSX Big 
>> Sir. Any advice would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Holly
>> 
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>> 
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> - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Microsoft edge has new window.

[Brad Snyder]

I hear pretty much the same announcement when using Google Chrome with 
voiceover on my Mac. It's annoying, but like Dave said, you just learn to live 
with it.
I much prefer using Safari, and it is my primary browser. No such annoyances 
when using Safari.

- Brad -

On Jan 27, 2022, at 22:09, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Anders,

I was using Edge for quite a while over the past couple years, and was not able 
to figure a way to stop that announcement. I just got used to it.

Sorry. I’m now using Safari again, but for other reasons.

Do you find it impossible to navigate inside tables using Edge? I could never 
make it work.

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Engineer, Musician, Farfar, Woodworker, and Pioneer

On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:00 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
Every now and then I  VoiceOver is saying that microsoft has new window.
It annoys me both with speech and braille as it interrupts my reading.
Can I get rid of it in some way?
I have the same issue with google chrome but not with safari or firefox.
I don’t like it.
/A

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Re: Microsoft edge has new window.

[Dave Carlson]

Anders,

I was using Edge for quite a while over the past couple years, and was not able 
to figure a way to stop that announcement. I just got used to it.

Sorry. I’m now using Safari again, but for other reasons.

Do you find it impossible to navigate inside tables using Edge? I could never 
make it work.

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Engineer, Musician, Farfar, Woodworker, and Pioneer

On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:00 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
Every now and then I  VoiceOver is saying that microsoft has new window.
It annoys me both with speech and braille as it interrupts my reading.
Can I get rid of it in some way?
I have the same issue with google chrome but not with safari or firefox.
I don’t like it.
/A

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Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[joseph hodge]

Thank you for explaining. I hope I wasn't being rude by asking it just crossed 
my mind lol.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 7:27 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Joseph,
> 
> Well there are obviously no guarantees, but considering that VIPhone has been 
> around for about thirteen years now, I think we hopefully will be OK until we 
> can think of a better solution. :)
> 
> We’re still not opposed to the idea of moving the list to a new provider and 
> the money, while a bit steep for a group our size, is not really the issue. 
> There were several factors which went into deciding to stay with Google 
> Groups for the time being.
> 
> if nothing else, it was actually the fastest way we could get a list back up 
> and running. Other providers would have taken much, much  longer to 
> accommodate reinstating all of our members.
> 
> So this was definitely a consideration.
> 
> With that, I think we should probably close this topic here for now, and let 
> MacVisionaries get back to being MacVisionaries. :)
> 
> If anyone else has any additional questions, I’d be happy to answer them so 
> please feel free to email me directly if you’d like.
> 
> Thanks everyone and please have a lovely day / evening!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:56 PM, joseph hodge  wrote:
>> 
>> My only question is since Google kicked you guys off the first time what 
>> makes the second group any different? I’m just worried that people are going 
>> to sign up just to have the same issue arise who knows when! It would just 
>> be interesting to know why Google did this so the second time around it 
>> doesn’t repeat itself hopefully you guys figure that out soon. I understand 
>> that other services cost money so not ideal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jan 26, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> I have some good news!
>>> 
>>> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
>>> 
>>> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
>>> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
>>> 
>>> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
>>> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
>>> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites 
>>> we can send out each day.
>>> 
>>> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is 
>>> the link to the group page.
>>> 
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
>>> 
>>> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of 
>>> people and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than 
>>> what we had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you 
>>> all a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
>>> 
>>> Cheers!
>>> 
>>> Cara
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[joseph hudson]

I think if she did that, and since she has such a wide membership, we would 
have to pay yearly. And some of us would have to sponsor the payment. Do you 
need to keep in mind, that to bite off of that, it would be $220 for the whole 
year. So each person that wanted to join, after the first hundred joined, would 
have to pay five bucks. And who else how many people would actually wanna do 
that. If this was of something of interest, I would not mind being the sole 
pair and helping get the group up and running but if I did it and you wanted to 
join after the first hundred members hand subscribe, you would have to make an 
appoint to sponsor us at least five bucks. I do suggest looking at the 
following group, that way you can know about the pricing structure and all of 
that good stuff. Below will be a link to the archives. And actually, this is a 
link to the pricing page that you can find on the groups io homepage as well. 
But if you go to the beta group, and put in pricing, you can look at all the 
thread that was talked about in 2020.

https://groups.io/static/pricing

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 9:13 PM, Ryan Mann  wrote:
> 
> have you considered moving over to groups. Io instead of using Google?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 11:44 AM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> Neither do we!
>> 
>> As I said, neither Mark nor I had gotten any notice whatsoever from Google. 
>> Even before I’d had a chance to look at the group that day, listers sent 
>> Mark and I notes letting us know that the group had been banned from Google 
>> and that they could not access it.
>> 
>> Even I could not access the group from the My Groups page on Google. I 
>> actually needed to search the web for VIPhone and then saw the banned 
>> Content notice that everyone else did.
>> 
>> Fortunately, as group owners, Mark and I were given a button which allowed 
>> us to proceed to the standard VIPhone page so we could at least try to 
>> figure out what messages Google did not like and request a manual review of 
>> the list.
>> 
>> 
>> Google has still not reached out in any way, to either Mark or myself to 
>> offer us any kind of information at all or to let us know if they’ve begun 
>> any kind of review.
>> 
>> So we are as much in the dark on this as you all are.
>> 
>> I wish I could say more but I have no more to say! lol! it’s just crazy!
>> 
>> I’ll definitely keep you all up to date as soon as I know any more.
>> 
>> For now though, let’s all make the new group as much a home as the original. 
>> I’m certainly going to! :)
>> 
>> thanks so much, Michael for your note and please, everyone have a terrific 
>> day / evening!
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> 
>> Cara
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 6:33 PM, Michael Marshall  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What exactly is googles problem? have they actually earmarked anything that 
>>> could be potentially harmful? I just don't get this.
>>> 
> On 27 Jan 2022, at 11:19 am, Cara Quinn  wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 
 I have some good news!
 
 Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
 
 For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
 until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
 
 Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
 members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your 
 invitation. This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount 
 of invites we can send out each day.
 
 For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is 
 the link to the group page.
 
 https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
 
 I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of 
 people and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than 
 what we had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
 
 Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you 
 all a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
 
 Cheers!
 
 Cara
 
 -- 
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 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
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 at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
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Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[Ryan Mann]

have you considered moving over to groups. Io instead of using Google?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 11:44 AM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> Neither do we!
> 
> As I said, neither Mark nor I had gotten any notice whatsoever from Google. 
> Even before I’d had a chance to look at the group that day, listers sent Mark 
> and I notes letting us know that the group had been banned from Google and 
> that they could not access it.
> 
> Even I could not access the group from the My Groups page on Google. I 
> actually needed to search the web for VIPhone and then saw the banned Content 
> notice that everyone else did.
> 
> Fortunately, as group owners, Mark and I were given a button which allowed us 
> to proceed to the standard VIPhone page so we could at least try to figure 
> out what messages Google did not like and request a manual review of the list.
> 
> 
> Google has still not reached out in any way, to either Mark or myself to 
> offer us any kind of information at all or to let us know if they’ve begun 
> any kind of review.
> 
> So we are as much in the dark on this as you all are.
> 
> I wish I could say more but I have no more to say! lol! it’s just crazy!
> 
> I’ll definitely keep you all up to date as soon as I know any more.
> 
> For now though, let’s all make the new group as much a home as the original. 
> I’m certainly going to! :)
> 
> thanks so much, Michael for your note and please, everyone have a terrific 
> day / evening!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 6:33 PM, Michael Marshall  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> What exactly is googles problem? have they actually earmarked anything that 
>> could be potentially harmful? I just don't get this.
>> 
 On 27 Jan 2022, at 11:19 am, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> I have some good news!
>>> 
>>> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
>>> 
>>> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
>>> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
>>> 
>>> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
>>> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
>>> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites 
>>> we can send out each day.
>>> 
>>> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is 
>>> the link to the group page.
>>> 
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
>>> 
>>> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of 
>>> people and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than 
>>> what we had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you 
>>> all a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
>>> 
>>> Cheers!
>>> 
>>> Cara
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
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>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/4AEF2094-62E6-4264-B705-3E14A88CFEF9%40caraquinn.com.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 
> -- 
> The 

Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Cara,
I am wondering if you contacted google's accessibility team directly 
regarding the review request?
Perhaps I am wrong, but making that decision without notification  seems 
more like wanting you to upgrade your group to something else instead.

Best,
Karen

Re: Voiceover On, Speech Off -- Yet Again

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

I'm thinking of frankly asking some of the senior Apple accessibility
people I know through our joint work in W3C. I'm inclined to wait for
the right moment though.

Thanks for the plist pointers.

Best,

Janina

Jonathan Cohn writes:
> Well, I tried and here were my results.
> I expect it is in one of the plist files under VoiceOVer4, but I was not able 
> to find it.
> 
> ls ~/Library/preferences/com.apple.VoiceOver4 
> will provide a bunch of  plists for VoiceOver 
> 
> I had found that:
> defaults read com.apple.VoiceOver4/default SCRCUserDefaultsMuteVoiceOver
> gives the result 1
> 
> and was the only default in that file with the characters "mute" in it.
> So I tried:
> defaults write  com.apple.VoiceOver4/default SCRCUserDefaultsMuteVoiceOver 
> -bool no
> 
> while voiceover was off, but this did not mute VOiceOver for me, so I did not 
> provide any CLI options for you, but perhaps you can mute/unmute and check 
> the dates of the files in 
> ~/Library/preferences and find a real source of what mutes.
> Of course, messing with the preferences directory is not generally 
> recommended.
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jan 27, 2022, at 17:15, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > It took awhile for me to get this done because it turned out I needed to
> > replace the rechargable battery in my Orbit Reader.
> > 
> > That replacement battery arrived today, got inserted into the Orbit,
> > connected to the Macbook, and this Voice Over user is back in business
> > thanks to Cord-M over USB.
> > 
> > Many thanks.
> > 
> > PS: I did call Apple Accessibility Support. They weren't all that
> > helpful, though they tried. They had me reinstall the entire OS which
> > did not fix the issue. That tells me we should be able to fix this
> > problem over ssh, because the setting is obviously hiding in some
> > configuration file, probably some plist file somewhere in user space. If
> > reinstalling the OS doesn't clear the issue, I can't imagine what other
> > explanation there could be.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Devin Prater writes:
> >> Plug it in, and VO will connect to it automatically.
> >> Devin Prater
> >> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 12:46 PM 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
> >> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Thanks, Jonathan. I do have an Orbit Reader available, though I don't
> >>> recall whether I ever associated it with my Mac Air. Nevertheless, this
> >>> gives me a path forward, even if I need to arrange for sighted
> >>> assistance. Right now the Orbit is charging, indicating how little I use
> >>> it I'm sorry to say.
> >>> 
> >>> Best,
> >>> 
> >>> Janina
> >>> 
> >>> Jonathan Cohn writes:
>  Hello,
>  if you use a braille display this can be toggled with the M chord. If
> >>> not, the only way I know to toggle without changing default voiceover
> >>> settings is with the trackpad commander and three finger double tap.
>  
>   Best wishes,
>  
>  Jonathan Cohn
>  
>  
>  
> > On Jan 16, 2022, at 12:26, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
> >>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks, Ali. It's definitely not a sound muting problem, as VO+F5 gives
> > me speech for Voiceover Off, then a second time Voiceover On, speech
> > off.
> > 
> > 
> > Herbie Allen writes:
> >> I would check sound settings and make sure you haven’t muted your
> >>> soundcard.
> >> 
> >>> On Jan 15, 2022, at 20:55, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
> >>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> I'm getting no response from a three-finger double tap on the
> >>> trackpad.
> >>> So, I'm unsure how I turned speech off in the first instance.
> >>> 
> >>> Is there any way to control this in the terminal?
> >>> 
> >>> Best,
> >>> 
> >>> Janina
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> 
> >>> Janina Sajka
> >>> (she/her/hers)
> >>> https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> >>> 
> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow
> >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> >>> 
> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> >>> (WAI)
> >>> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> >>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> >>> Visionaries list.
> >>> 
> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
> >>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
> >>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>> 
> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
> >>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach
> >>> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>> 
> >>> 

Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[Cara Quinn]

Hi Joseph,

Well there are obviously no guarantees, but considering that VIPhone has been 
around for about thirteen years now, I think we hopefully will be OK until we 
can think of a better solution. :)

We’re still not opposed to the idea of moving the list to a new provider and 
the money, while a bit steep for a group our size, is not really the issue. 
There were several factors which went into deciding to stay with Google Groups 
for the time being.

if nothing else, it was actually the fastest way we could get a list back up 
and running. Other providers would have taken much, much  longer to accommodate 
reinstating all of our members.

So this was definitely a consideration.

With that, I think we should probably close this topic here for now, and let 
MacVisionaries get back to being MacVisionaries. :)

If anyone else has any additional questions, I’d be happy to answer them so 
please feel free to email me directly if you’d like.

Thanks everyone and please have a lovely day / evening!

Cheers!

Cara



> On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:56 PM, joseph hodge  wrote:
> 
> My only question is since Google kicked you guys off the first time what 
> makes the second group any different? I’m just worried that people are going 
> to sign up just to have the same issue arise who knows when! It would just be 
> interesting to know why Google did this so the second time around it doesn’t 
> repeat itself hopefully you guys figure that out soon. I understand that 
> other services cost money so not ideal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have some good news!
>> 
>> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
>> 
>> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
>> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
>> 
>> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
>> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
>> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites we 
>> can send out each day.
>> 
>> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is 
>> the link to the group page.
>> 
>> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
>> 
>> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of people 
>> and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than what we 
>> had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
>> 
>> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you all 
>> a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> 
>> Cara
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[Cara Quinn]

hey Max, no worries and you’re not thick! :)

yes, go ahead and click on the link in the email to accept the invitation.

I haven’t actually seen what the invites look like from the receiving end so 
perhaps someone else here may be of more help regarding the actual wording of 
the links in the invitation.

-But yes, you will need to accept the invitation to be a part of the group.

If you need any more help, please feel free to write me directly and we can go 
from there.

Best of luck!

Cheers!

Cara



> On Jan 27, 2022, at 2:43 PM, Agent086b  wrote:
> 
> hi,
> I am a bit thick I know! If we receive an invitation does that mean we then 
> click on the link to join?
> Or is this not necessary?
> Max.
> 
>> On 27 Jan 2022, at 11:19 am, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have some good news!
>> 
>> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
>> 
>> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
>> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
>> 
>> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
>> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
>> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites we 
>> can send out each day.
>> 
>> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is 
>> the link to the group page.
>> 
>> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
>> 
>> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of people 
>> and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than what we 
>> had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
>> 
>> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you all 
>> a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> 
>> Cara
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Microsoft edge has new window.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Every now and then I  VoiceOver is saying that microsoft has new window.
It annoys me both with speech and braille as it interrupts my reading.
Can I get rid of it in some way?
I have the same issue with google chrome but not with safari or firefox.
I don’t like it.
/A

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Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[joseph hodge]

My only question is since Google kicked you guys off the first time what makes 
the second group any different? I’m just worried that people are going to sign 
up just to have the same issue arise who knows when! It would just be 
interesting to know why Google did this so the second time around it doesn’t 
repeat itself hopefully you guys figure that out soon. I understand that other 
services cost money so not ideal.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I have some good news!
> 
> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
> 
> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
> 
> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites we 
> can send out each day.
> 
> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is the 
> link to the group page.
> 
> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
> 
> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of people 
> and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than what we 
> had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
> 
> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you all 
> a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Voiceover On, Speech Off -- Yet Again

[Jonathan Cohn]

Well, I tried and here were my results.
I expect it is in one of the plist files under VoiceOVer4, but I was not able 
to find it.

ls ~/Library/preferences/com.apple.VoiceOver4 
will provide a bunch of  plists for VoiceOver 

I had found that:
defaults read com.apple.VoiceOver4/default SCRCUserDefaultsMuteVoiceOver
gives the result 1

and was the only default in that file with the characters "mute" in it.
So I tried:
defaults write  com.apple.VoiceOver4/default SCRCUserDefaultsMuteVoiceOver 
-bool no

while voiceover was off, but this did not mute VOiceOver for me, so I did not 
provide any CLI options for you, but perhaps you can mute/unmute and check the 
dates of the files in 
~/Library/preferences and find a real source of what mutes.
Of course, messing with the preferences directory is not generally recommended.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jan 27, 2022, at 17:15, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> It took awhile for me to get this done because it turned out I needed to
> replace the rechargable battery in my Orbit Reader.
> 
> That replacement battery arrived today, got inserted into the Orbit,
> connected to the Macbook, and this Voice Over user is back in business
> thanks to Cord-M over USB.
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> PS: I did call Apple Accessibility Support. They weren't all that
> helpful, though they tried. They had me reinstall the entire OS which
> did not fix the issue. That tells me we should be able to fix this
> problem over ssh, because the setting is obviously hiding in some
> configuration file, probably some plist file somewhere in user space. If
> reinstalling the OS doesn't clear the issue, I can't imagine what other
> explanation there could be.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> Devin Prater writes:
>> Plug it in, and VO will connect to it automatically.
>> Devin Prater
>> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 12:46 PM 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks, Jonathan. I do have an Orbit Reader available, though I don't
>>> recall whether I ever associated it with my Mac Air. Nevertheless, this
>>> gives me a path forward, even if I need to arrange for sighted
>>> assistance. Right now the Orbit is charging, indicating how little I use
>>> it I'm sorry to say.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> Jonathan Cohn writes:
 Hello,
 if you use a braille display this can be toggled with the M chord. If
>>> not, the only way I know to toggle without changing default voiceover
>>> settings is with the trackpad commander and three finger double tap.
 
  Best wishes,
 
 Jonathan Cohn
 
 
 
> On Jan 16, 2022, at 12:26, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Ali. It's definitely not a sound muting problem, as VO+F5 gives
> me speech for Voiceover Off, then a second time Voiceover On, speech
> off.
> 
> 
> Herbie Allen writes:
>> I would check sound settings and make sure you haven’t muted your
>>> soundcard.
>> 
>>> On Jan 15, 2022, at 20:55, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm getting no response from a three-finger double tap on the
>>> trackpad.
>>> So, I'm unsure how I turned speech off in the first instance.
>>> 
>>> Is there any way to control this in the terminal?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Janina Sajka
>>> (she/her/hers)
>>> https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
>>> 
>>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
>>> 
>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
>>> (WAI)
>>> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
>>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach
>>> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: Voiceover On, Speech Off -- Yet Again

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

It took awhile for me to get this done because it turned out I needed to
replace the rechargable battery in my Orbit Reader.

That replacement battery arrived today, got inserted into the Orbit,
connected to the Macbook, and this Voice Over user is back in business
thanks to Cord-M over USB.

Many thanks.

PS: I did call Apple Accessibility Support. They weren't all that
helpful, though they tried. They had me reinstall the entire OS which
did not fix the issue. That tells me we should be able to fix this
problem over ssh, because the setting is obviously hiding in some
configuration file, probably some plist file somewhere in user space. If
reinstalling the OS doesn't clear the issue, I can't imagine what other
explanation there could be.

Best,

Janina

Devin Prater writes:
> Plug it in, and VO will connect to it automatically.
> Devin Prater
> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 12:46 PM 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Jonathan. I do have an Orbit Reader available, though I don't
> > recall whether I ever associated it with my Mac Air. Nevertheless, this
> > gives me a path forward, even if I need to arrange for sighted
> > assistance. Right now the Orbit is charging, indicating how little I use
> > it I'm sorry to say.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Janina
> >
> > Jonathan Cohn writes:
> > > Hello,
> > > if you use a braille display this can be toggled with the M chord. If
> > not, the only way I know to toggle without changing default voiceover
> > settings is with the trackpad commander and three finger double tap.
> > >
> > >   Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Jonathan Cohn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Jan 16, 2022, at 12:26, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
> > macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Ali. It's definitely not a sound muting problem, as VO+F5 gives
> > > > me speech for Voiceover Off, then a second time Voiceover On, speech
> > > > off.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Herbie Allen writes:
> > > >> I would check sound settings and make sure you haven’t muted your
> > soundcard.
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Jan 15, 2022, at 20:55, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
> > macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'm getting no response from a three-finger double tap on the
> > trackpad.
> > > >>> So, I'm unsure how I turned speech off in the first instance.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Is there any way to control this in the terminal?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Best,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Janina
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Janina Sajka
> > > >>> (she/her/hers)
> > > >>> https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> > (WAI)
> > > >>> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> > http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> > Visionaries list.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
> > list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
> > the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
> > mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach
> > Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> > > >>> ---
> > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
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> > .
> > > >>
> > > >> --
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> > Visionaries list.
> > > >>
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> > or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
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> > > >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
> > mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach
> > Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > > >>
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Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[Michael Marshall]

The whole thing is ridiculous.

> On 28 Jan 2022, at 3:43 am, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> Neither do we!
> 
> As I said, neither Mark nor I had gotten any notice whatsoever from Google. 
> Even before I’d had a chance to look at the group that day, listers sent Mark 
> and I notes letting us know that the group had been banned from Google and 
> that they could not access it.
> 
> Even I could not access the group from the My Groups page on Google. I 
> actually needed to search the web for VIPhone and then saw the banned Content 
> notice that everyone else did.
> 
> Fortunately, as group owners, Mark and I were given a button which allowed us 
> to proceed to the standard VIPhone page so we could at least try to figure 
> out what messages Google did not like and request a manual review of the list.
> 
> 
> Google has still not reached out in any way, to either Mark or myself to 
> offer us any kind of information at all or to let us know if they’ve begun 
> any kind of review.
> 
> So we are as much in the dark on this as you all are.
> 
> I wish I could say more but I have no more to say! lol! it’s just crazy!
> 
> I’ll definitely keep you all up to date as soon as I know any more.
> 
> For now though, let’s all make the new group as much a home as the original. 
> I’m certainly going to! :)
> 
> thanks so much, Michael for your note and please, everyone have a terrific 
> day / evening!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 6:33 PM, Michael Marshall  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> What exactly is googles problem? have they actually earmarked anything that 
>> could be potentially harmful? I just don't get this.
>> 
>>> On 27 Jan 2022, at 11:19 am, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> I have some good news!
>>> 
>>> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
>>> 
>>> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
>>> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
>>> 
>>> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
>>> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
>>> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites 
>>> we can send out each day.
>>> 
>>> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is 
>>> the link to the group page.
>>> 
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
>>> 
>>> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of 
>>> people and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than 
>>> what we had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you 
>>> all a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
>>> 
>>> Cheers!
>>> 
>>> Cara
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 

Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[Agent086b]

hi,
I am a bit thick I know! If we receive an invitation does that mean we then 
click on the link to join?
Or is this not necessary?
Max.

> On 27 Jan 2022, at 11:19 am, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I have some good news!
> 
> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
> 
> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
> 
> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites we 
> can send out each day.
> 
> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is the 
> link to the group page.
> 
> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
> 
> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of people 
> and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than what we 
> had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
> 
> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you all 
> a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
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Re: New Window?

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

Try cmd-`, that’s cmd-accent, the key just to the left of the #1 in the number 
row.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 13:53, Fazil M.  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Group.
> If a link opens in a new window, how can I come back to the previous window, 
> please?
> Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
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>  
> .

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New Window?

[Fazil M.]

Hi, Group.

If a link opens in a new window, how can I come back to the previous window,
please?

Thanks!

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Help With a Website?

[Fazil M.]

Hi, Group.

I am trying to book a hotel at:

Booking.com.

I am able to enter the name of the city, check-in-&-check-out dates, number
of guests etc, but I am unable to read the room-rent of a chosen hotel.

Thanks!

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks!

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Re: Apple Mail Question

[Herbie Allen]

It will be towards the bottom after all your Gmail folders. Might help to to 
hav them collapsed.

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 14:03, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen that folder. guess I'll have to look around some 
> more.
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:20 AM, Herbie Allen > > wrote:
>> 
>> In your list of mailboxes. In mine at least, I have to go down past the sink 
>> issues folder.
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 01:02, Lorie McCloud >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have another Apple mail question. I have 2 email accounts, gmail and 
>>> iCloud. once in awhile I want to go and dig an email out of the trash or at 
>>> least look at it. I can find the trash for gmail but not for iCloud. 
>>> pressing right arrow to expand the trash doesn't seem to do any good. where 
>>> is the iCloud trash? this is in Monterey.
>>> 
>>> thanks.
>>> Lorie
>>> 
 On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Yes, it sounds like your student has Column View enabled, and you do not.
 Actually, I much prefer Column View, but that is an individual choice.
 
 Column View can be enabled/disabled by going to the Menu Bar > View, and 
 pressing the Down Arrow until you get to Column View.  Now press the Enter 
 key to either select (check) or deselect (uncheck) as you prefer.
 
 As Herbie stated, make sure that your student has QuickNav turned off, or 
 uses the VO modifier when navigating, after interacting with the Mailbox 
 contents table.
 Note:  With QuickNav turned off, the Mailbox contents table may be 
 navigated without interacting with the table.  The same is true for the 
 Mailbox list.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 
 
 On Jan 26, 2022, at 23:17, Herbie Allen >>> > wrote:
 
 Make sure use column layout is unchecked in the view menu. If quicknav is 
 off, then she should be able to go through the mail list without 
 interacting.
 
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 20:16, Holly Jensen  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am teaching a student how to access mail with Voiceover on her Mac. 
> When she interacts with the table that holds her mail messages, she gets 
> this table with a lot of columns. When I do it on my Mac, it only reads 
> the subject and then the preview. for the life of me, I cannot remember 
> how I set it up to do that, or if I even did. She is running OSX Big Sir. 
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Holly
> 
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Re: Apple Mail Question

[Lorie McCloud]

I don't think I've ever seen that folder. guess I'll have to look around some 
more.

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:20 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> In your list of mailboxes. In mine at least, I have to go down past the sink 
> issues folder.
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 01:02, Lorie McCloud > > wrote:
>> 
>> I have another Apple mail question. I have 2 email accounts, gmail and 
>> iCloud. once in awhile I want to go and dig an email out of the trash or at 
>> least look at it. I can find the trash for gmail but not for iCloud. 
>> pressing right arrow to expand the trash doesn't seem to do any good. where 
>> is the iCloud trash? this is in Monterey.
>> 
>> thanks.
>> Lorie
>> 
>>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, it sounds like your student has Column View enabled, and you do not.
>>> Actually, I much prefer Column View, but that is an individual choice.
>>> 
>>> Column View can be enabled/disabled by going to the Menu Bar > View, and 
>>> pressing the Down Arrow until you get to Column View.  Now press the Enter 
>>> key to either select (check) or deselect (uncheck) as you prefer.
>>> 
>>> As Herbie stated, make sure that your student has QuickNav turned off, or 
>>> uses the VO modifier when navigating, after interacting with the Mailbox 
>>> contents table.
>>> Note:  With QuickNav turned off, the Mailbox contents table may be 
>>> navigated without interacting with the table.  The same is true for the 
>>> Mailbox list.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 23:17, Herbie Allen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Make sure use column layout is unchecked in the view menu. If quicknav is 
>>> off, then she should be able to go through the mail list without 
>>> interacting.
>>> 
 On Jan 26, 2022, at 20:16, Holly Jensen >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 I am teaching a student how to access mail with Voiceover on her Mac. When 
 she interacts with the table that holds her mail messages, she gets this 
 table with a lot of columns. When I do it on my Mac, it only reads the 
 subject and then the preview. for the life of me, I cannot remember how I 
 set it up to do that, or if I even did. She is running OSX Big Sir. Any 
 advice would be appreciated.
 
 Holly
 
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Re: Is there any way to have the view in the music app on my iPad be the same as on my phone?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I sort of figured that, but thought I would ask here just in case someone knew 
something I didn’t. :)
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jan 27, 2022, at 12:21 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I’m guessing not since I have seen some similar inconsistencies with how 
> Music on the phone is sorted differently then music on the Mac.
> 
>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 08:42, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> When I open the music app on my phone, I see a list of recently added 
>> albums.  When I open the app on my iPad, I just see an alphabetized list of 
>> my albums.  If I tap the Recently Added button, I get a list of recently 
>> added songs, rather than Albums.  Does anyone know if there’s a way to get 
>> that listing of recently added albums on an iPad?
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Is there any way to have the view in the music app on my iPad be the same as on my phone?

[Herbie Allen]

I’m guessing not since I have seen some similar inconsistencies with how Music 
on the phone is sorted differently then music on the Mac.

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 08:42, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> When I open the music app on my phone, I see a list of recently added albums. 
>  When I open the app on my iPad, I just see an alphabetized list of my 
> albums.  If I tap the Recently Added button, I get a list of recently added 
> songs, rather than Albums.  Does anyone know if there’s a way to get that 
> listing of recently added albums on an iPad?
> Thanks,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Moderator Note - The Next Generation of VIPhone

[Cara Quinn]

Hi Michael,

Neither do we!

As I said, neither Mark nor I had gotten any notice whatsoever from Google. 
Even before I’d had a chance to look at the group that day, listers sent Mark 
and I notes letting us know that the group had been banned from Google and that 
they could not access it.

Even I could not access the group from the My Groups page on Google. I actually 
needed to search the web for VIPhone and then saw the banned Content notice 
that everyone else did.

Fortunately, as group owners, Mark and I were given a button which allowed us 
to proceed to the standard VIPhone page so we could at least try to figure out 
what messages Google did not like and request a manual review of the list.


Google has still not reached out in any way, to either Mark or myself to offer 
us any kind of information at all or to let us know if they’ve begun any kind 
of review.

So we are as much in the dark on this as you all are.

I wish I could say more but I have no more to say! lol! it’s just crazy!

I’ll definitely keep you all up to date as soon as I know any more.

For now though, let’s all make the new group as much a home as the original. 
I’m certainly going to! :)

thanks so much, Michael for your note and please, everyone have a terrific day 
/ evening!

Cheers!

Cara


> On Jan 26, 2022, at 6:33 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> What exactly is googles problem? have they actually earmarked anything that 
> could be potentially harmful? I just don't get this.
> 
>> On 27 Jan 2022, at 11:19 am, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have some good news!
>> 
>> Mark and I have started VIPhone, The Next Generation. :)
>> 
>> For now at least, this list will pick up where VIPhone left off. At least 
>> until Google decides to review us. -Then we’ll see what happens from there.
>> 
>> Over the next few days, Mark and I will be inviting all of the original 
>> members of VIPhone. So if you wish, you need only wait for your invitation. 
>> This will take a few days because we are limited in the amount of invites we 
>> can send out each day.
>> 
>> For those who would rather request a group subscription directly, here is 
>> the link to the group page.
>> 
>> https://groups.google.com/g/viphone2
>> 
>> I know this is not the smoothest solution, but we’re a great group of people 
>> and we will adapt! :) -And maybe even make this a better list than what we 
>> had. You never know! :) -Either way, let’s all enjoy the new list!
>> 
>> Thanks very much to you all for your patience and please let me wish you all 
>> a lovely day / evening, wherever you may be!
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> 
>> Cara
>> 
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Is there any way to have the view in the music app on my iPad be the same as on my phone?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi all,

When I open the music app on my phone, I see a list of recently added albums.  
When I open the app on my iPad, I just see an alphabetized list of my albums.  
If I tap the Recently Added button, I get a list of recently added songs, 
rather than Albums.  Does anyone know if there’s a way to get that listing of 
recently added albums on an iPad?
Thanks,
Donna

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Re: Apple Mail Question

[Herbie Allen]

In your list of mailboxes. In mine at least, I have to go down past the sink 
issues folder.

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 01:02, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> I have another Apple mail question. I have 2 email accounts, gmail and 
> iCloud. once in awhile I want to go and dig an email out of the trash or at 
> least look at it. I can find the trash for gmail but not for iCloud. pressing 
> right arrow to expand the trash doesn't seem to do any good. where is the 
> iCloud trash? this is in Monterey.
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, it sounds like your student has Column View enabled, and you do not.
>> Actually, I much prefer Column View, but that is an individual choice.
>> 
>> Column View can be enabled/disabled by going to the Menu Bar > View, and 
>> pressing the Down Arrow until you get to Column View.  Now press the Enter 
>> key to either select (check) or deselect (uncheck) as you prefer.
>> 
>> As Herbie stated, make sure that your student has QuickNav turned off, or 
>> uses the VO modifier when navigating, after interacting with the Mailbox 
>> contents table.
>> Note:  With QuickNav turned off, the Mailbox contents table may be navigated 
>> without interacting with the table.  The same is true for the Mailbox list.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 23:17, Herbie Allen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Make sure use column layout is unchecked in the view menu. If quicknav is 
>> off, then she should be able to go through the mail list without interacting.
>> 
>>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 20:16, Holly Jensen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I am teaching a student how to access mail with Voiceover on her Mac. When 
>>> she interacts with the table that holds her mail messages, she gets this 
>>> table with a lot of columns. When I do it on my Mac, it only reads the 
>>> subject and then the preview. for the life of me, I cannot remember how I 
>>> set it up to do that, or if I even did. She is running OSX Big Sir. Any 
>>> advice would be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Holly
>>> 
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>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
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Re: Apple Mail Question

[Brad Snyder]

I don’t use iCloud mail, but I have several other mail accounts enabled, so the 
following should work the same when iCloud mail is one of the enabled accounts, 
assuming you are using the stock Apple Mail app on your Mac:

When you are in the Mailbox List table, make sure you interact with the table, 
so you can navigate to the group headings.
You should be able to find the heading for Favorites, and you can press VO + 
Spacebar to either expand or collapse the group.
Once expanded, you should be able to locate the All Trash item.
Once the All Trash item has been located, you can once again use VO + Spacebar, 
to expand the item, and this should reveal the individual Trash boxes for each 
account you have enabled.

Alternatively, you should be able to navigate to the heading for each of your 
enabled mail accounts, and then use VO + Spacebar, to make sure that account is 
expanded.
Now, you should be able to navigate and locate the Trash box for each of your 
enabled mail accounts in your Apple Mail app.

HTH.

- Brad -




On Jan 27, 2022, at 01:02, Lorie McCloud  wrote:

I have another Apple mail question. I have 2 email accounts, gmail and iCloud. 
once in awhile I want to go and dig an email out of the trash or at least look 
at it. I can find the trash for gmail but not for iCloud. pressing right arrow 
to expand the trash doesn't seem to do any good. where is the iCloud trash? 
this is in Monterey.

thanks.
Lorie

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Brad Snyder  > wrote:
> 
> Yes, it sounds like your student has Column View enabled, and you do not.
> Actually, I much prefer Column View, but that is an individual choice.
> 
> Column View can be enabled/disabled by going to the Menu Bar > View, and 
> pressing the Down Arrow until you get to Column View.  Now press the Enter 
> key to either select (check) or deselect (uncheck) as you prefer.
> 
> As Herbie stated, make sure that your student has QuickNav turned off, or 
> uses the VO modifier when navigating, after interacting with the Mailbox 
> contents table.
> Note:  With QuickNav turned off, the Mailbox contents table may be navigated 
> without interacting with the table.  The same is true for the Mailbox list.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 23:17, Herbie Allen  > wrote:
> 
> Make sure use column layout is unchecked in the view menu. If quicknav is 
> off, then she should be able to go through the mail list without interacting.
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 20:16, Holly Jensen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I am teaching a student how to access mail with Voiceover on her Mac. When 
>> she interacts with the table that holds her mail messages, she gets this 
>> table with a lot of columns. When I do it on my Mac, it only reads the 
>> subject and then the preview. for the life of me, I cannot remember how I 
>> set it up to do that, or if I even did. She is running OSX Big Sir. Any 
>> advice would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Holly
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
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>>  
>> .
> 
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> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>