Re: MacBook Pro 16

[Kevin Chao]

I love this thing!
Typing, audio, and speed is amazingly wonderful on 16-inch MacBook Pro!

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:16 AM Anders Holmberg 
wrote:

> Hi!
> Oh, hope you will love it.
> I wish i could get one but i don’t have the money right now.
> Its pritty expensive in sweden.
> /A
>
> > 21 nov. 2019 kl. 21:33 skrev Jürgen Fleger :
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > just got my new MacBook Pro 16 inch today. The sound is simply great.
> The new old keyboard is way more comfortable to use than a butterfly
> keyboard. It’s cool to got a real Escape key and the arrow keys are easier
> to use as well. And to have more room for my palms right and left of the
> Trackpad makes it easier to keep hands steady while typing.
> >
> > All the best
> > Jürgen
> >
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Calendar Office 365 Web UI?

[Kevin Chao]

I’ve became quite productive with email in mail.o365 (web Office 365).


However, I find the Calendar UI to lack keyboard shortcuts, ARIA, and
accessibility.


What’s the tip or trick to using Calendar in Office 365 Web UI? With MacOS
and iOS VoiceOver?


Thanks!

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Re: Outlook 365

[Kevin Chao]

I’ve been using mail.o365 in Mac, Chrome, and VoiceOver–the keyboard
shortcuts and screen reader experience is pretty good.

On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 9:24 AM Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

> When Microsoft updater pops up, it should have a set of radio buttons to
> move you to the insider program. This is Microsoft's equivalent to the
> Apple public beta.
>
>  checkboxes to move to either the
> Best wishes,
>
> Jonathan Cohn
>
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2017, at 4:24 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> Really, I haven’t noticed this short coming and I’m using the stock
> installer from the 365 site.  Do you have a pointer for the beta code?
>
> On Jul 9, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
>
> I would suggest using the preview / beta versions of Office on the
> Macintosh if possible. I found the standard Outlook to be significantly
> more frustrating to use with VoiceOver. The newer versions don't rea the
> blank fields in the table of messages, and very specifically indicate how
> many unread messages are in each thread.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jonathan Cohn
>
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> I use the outlook client or Apple mail myself.  Outlook is quite good
> although I’m a bit more used to apple mail, outlook is very accessible on
> the Mac.
>
> On Jul 9, 2017, at 3:06 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> I use MacOS High Sierra with Voiceover and am now starting to use Outlook
> 365.let ynow o uk
>
> I wanted to connect with others here to:
> 1. learn tips and tricks and
> 2. know if the Web user interface or Mac Outlook client is more accessible?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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MacOS High Sierra Public Beta 2?

[Kevin Chao]

Hi,


Has anyone tried the public beta 2 of MacOS High Sierra that was released
this morning?

I tried it shortly after it was released and it resulted in a visit to the
Apple Store. No matter how I attempted to interact with web views in Safari
or Chrome, VoiceOver would “busy” forever.


For now, I’ve restored to stable-build of Sierra.

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Re: Outlook 365

[Kevin Chao]

So, no one recommends or uses the Office 365 Web UI?

On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 1:16 PM Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

> I would suggest using the preview / beta versions of Office on the
> Macintosh if possible. I found the standard Outlook to be significantly
> more frustrating to use with VoiceOver. The newer versions don't rea the
> blank fields in the table of messages, and very specifically indicate how
> many unread messages are in each thread.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jonathan Cohn
>
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> I use the outlook client or Apple mail myself.  Outlook is quite good
> although I’m a bit more used to apple mail, outlook is very accessible on
> the Mac.
>
> On Jul 9, 2017, at 3:06 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> I use MacOS High Sierra with Voiceover and am now starting to use Outlook
> 365.let ynow o uk
>
>
>
> I wanted to connect with others here to:
> 1. learn tips and tricks and
> 2. know if the Web user interface or Mac Outlook client is more accessible?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Outlook 365

[Kevin Chao]

I use MacOS High Sierra with Voiceover and am now starting to use Outlook 365.

I wanted to connect with others here to: 
1. learn tips and tricks and 
2. know if the Web user interface or Mac Outlook client is more accessible?

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: more Voice Over controls?

[Kevin Chao]

Yes, there is a pitch slider in verbosity settings.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:04 PM Ray Foret jr  wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> From what I hear, it is now going to be possible to adjust the pitch of
> the Voice Over voice in IOS11.  Is this true for all voices including the
> so-called “Male Siri” US voice actually known as “Aaron”?
>
> Also, what else wil we be able to control:  The voice intonation perhaps?
>
>
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind
> built-in
>
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon
> Wireless iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>
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Re: Upgrading to IOS Public beta 11

[Kevin Chao]

Deleting app(s) with VoiceOver in iOS 11 Beta unfortunately isn’t possible.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 11:48 PM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Morning macsters,
>
>  Can someone tell me how the heck to delete an app from my iPhone runnin
> the IOS 11 beta?
>
> I've tried the double  tap and the go into edit mode but I have not been
> able to find the delete option
> or even get it to work with the current delete app function.
>
> Anyone know how you are now ment to delete  things?
>
> Cheers
>
> Simon Fthen
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Friday, 30 June 2017 1:16 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Upgrading to IOS Public beta 11
>
> I haven’t tried downloading apps but updating seems to work.
>
> > On Jun 28, 2017, at 10:49 PM, Nimer Jaber  wrote:
> >
> > This is broken… just saw this thread.
> >
> >> On Jun 28, 2017, at 16:21, Portia Scott  wrote:
> >>
> >> Okay, a friend is trying to figure it out, but it looks like
> >> downloading apps is broken.
> >>
> >> On 6/28/17, Jenine Stanley  wrote:
> >>> Haven’t tried that one yet. Need to seriously clean out my apps so
> >>> might be a good reason to try it.
>  On Jun 28, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Portia Scott 
> wrote:
> 
>  When you have apps in your app store that you have purchased, but
>  not installed onto your iPhone, do you see a download button when
>  going to install them?
> 
>  Someone on Twitter was saying you have to install purchased apps
>  that you want on your iPhone from iTunes.
> 
>  On 6/28/17, Jenine Stanley  wrote:
> > I was moving the new Files app into a folder. Now if you do the
> > 1-finger flick down with actions selected in the rotor, instead of
> “Arrange Apps”
> > it
> > will say “Edit Mode”.
> >
> > If you double tap on this, you will find an action called Drag and
> > Drop where it used to say Move App.
> >
> > Double tapping on Drag and Drop will pause your screen for a second.
> > Treat
> > this just as you would the iOS10 move command. Go to the folder
> > you want or location, flick down and you will see an action to
> > drop the item into that folder.
> >
> > Sorry, I feel like I’m missing a step here but once in the folder
> > I believe you have to confirm the drop spot with another 1-finger
> > flick. give it some time as it’s not as clean yet as the iOS10 app
> > moving.
> >> On Jun 28, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Anders Holmberg
> >> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi!
> >> How do one drag and drop?
> >> And where did you find about that feature?
> >> I haven’t read the article yet that was posted here but sure will
> do.
> >> /A
> >>> 28 juni 2017 kl. 16:39 skrev Jenine Stanley
> >>> :
> >>>
> >>> I’m finding a few things that may not necessarily be bugs but
> >>> operate differently.
> >>>
> >>> 1. The 4-finger swipe to change apps no longer works. It takes
> >>> me to a sign in screen and asks for my device password then
> >>> kicks me back to the home screen. This is frustrating as I use
> >>> that gesture all the time.
> >>> Yes,
> >>> reporting this.
> >>>
> >>> 2. The app Switcher has reversed the order of apps again, moving
> >>> them from most recent on the right to most recent on the left.
> >>> The Home designation is gone and I haven’t yet figured out how
> >>> to get Hand off to work, say to switch back after an accidental
> >>> hand off occurs.
> >>>
> >>> 3. Some screen sensitivity  issues, either too sensitive or
> >>> sluggish depending on the app and task. I’m using a 6S.
> >>>
> >>> 4. Voice Dream Reader can’t get books from the cloud. I was able
> >>> to go into the files app and share then copy a book to Voice
> >>> Dream Reader though so just a different way of doing things.
> >>>
> >>> 5. getting used to the drag and drop feature took some time. I
> >>> didn’t realize you could grab multiple things, like apps, to
> >>> drag and drop but once I figured it out, I do like it.
> >>>
> >>> 6. OK, call me weird but I like the new app store. I’ve had no
> >>> issues updating or searching for apps.
> >>>
> >>> Other than a few apps I’m beta testing on their own, apart from
> >>> the iOS beta, things seem to be working OK though.
>  On Jun 28, 2017, at 10:13 AM, Scott Davert
>  
>  wrote:
> 
>  here are some bugs I have found. I'm not noticing my touch
>  screen on my 6S behaving any differently.
>  1. The messages rotor option has disappeared from mail. There
>  is an actions rotor option, but no effective way to jump between
> messages.
>  2. When editing using a braille display, the cursor jumps
>  around erradically.
>  3. I

Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[Kevin Chao]

* Indoor navigation of malls and airports seems interesting, but I’ve not seen 
a way to determine in the iOS 11 Maps app which venues have the required 
infrastructure, and how detail it is. If anyone has tips on how to get this 
working wiht VoiceOver, please do share how.
* scan document in Notes unfortunately does not do OCR, but instead creates 
inaccessible image documents. I was hoping that with this and the markup docs 
feature would be accessible wiht VoiceOver, so we could interact with more 
docs/forms.
* The Misspelled Words rotor item seems interesting, but I’ve not successfully 
got it to work. Hope it reduces the amount of spelling issues that VoiceOver 
users have.
* OverThere iOS app, which is the modern Talking Signs is great for orientation 
and “LookAround”.

> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 3:46 PM Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> Yeah it's not like they could miss the towers off in the distance.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Saturday, 1 July 2017 4:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - 
> CNET
> 
> Simon, the terrorists don’t need or care about GPS.  When you’re a terrorist 
> you’re not going for the super high tech high end solution.  You’re going for 
> the biggest bang for the smallest buck.  They didn’t need GPS for 9-11, just 
> about 20 bucks worth of box cutters.  This relates back to something my 
> father who was a Marine told me.  During the Vietnam era we had started to 
> use very high tech weapons like  advanced infrared night vision, smart bombs 
> and such.  The Vietnamese resistance would fool our night vision systems by 
> leaving metal out during the day so it got super heated in the sun.  Then, at 
> night they would scatter large chunks of super hot metal around which would 
> confuse our night vision and make the pilots think they were looking at camp 
> fires not decoys.  We’d bomb the hell out of an empty patch of jungle while 
> the enemy operated free and clear while we were distracted.  Same deal here 
> it’s all about the low tech solution to a high tech adversary.
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jun 29, 2017, at 11:42 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> >
> > Think of what the terrorists would do if they could use military grade
> > GPS, Would open a new door of problems for everyone.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> > Sent: Thursday, 29 June 2017 11:26 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the
> > iPhone - CNET
> >
> > You got that right about the military signals. Not going to happen.
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jun 28, 2017, at 4:19 PM, Scott Granados  
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I had the exact same thought.  I wonder if they use the gyro or something 
> >> to help.  Plus you have the regular deviation in the GPS signal depending 
> >> on signal conditions.
> >>   I wish we could get access to the military encrypted signals, sub meter 
> >> way finding would be nice.
> >>
> >>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:11 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I remember that portable receiver as well. I will be curious if you
> >>> try it. The problem I see with this approach is that the actual GPS
> >>> Mark, so to  speak, is often some ways away from the actual building
> >>> you're trying to go to. It might be in a parking lot for instance.
> >>> Or so I have heard from the makers of nearby explorer and Seeing Eye
> >>> GPS. The folks who decide where exactly on the map or whatever it is
> >>> that GPS is keying on our more interested in cars getting to where
> >>> they're going and pedestrians
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Jun 28, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Scott Granados  
>  wrote:
> 
>  Good ol Smith-Kettlewell, I remember building some of their projects 
>  when I was in school.  I will definitely check out this app.
>  The physical talking signs unit was very simple but effective.  You 
>  pointed a small IR receiver that converted the IR signal to speech and 
>  the clearer the sound the more closely aligned to the correct direction 
>  you were.  They put transmitters over the tracks at the train station 
>  with the track number for example or over the Subway sub shop sign 
>  directly over the door.
> 
> 
> > On Jun 27, 2017, at 5:30 PM, David Chittenden  
> > wrote:
> >
> > Smith-Kettlewell, the developers of Talking Signs, put out an app 
> > called Over There, which works on the iPhone like the Talking Signs 
> > receiver. It uses GPS and the Google Places database.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> > Mobile: +61 488 988 93

Re: Removal of 3D Touch app switching gesture in iOS 11 confirmed as intentional change

[Kevin Chao]

4-finger swipe left/right to switch apps and 3D touch on left edge for app
switcher don’t seem to work in iOS 11 beta.
The return to last app and phone call buttons, as well as double-press HOME
button for app switcher still work.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 9:24 AM Mary Otten  wrote:

> I know, your android devices will tell you when you hit the home button.
> It's just slower. I have two of them, and it's definitely slower.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 2, 2017, at 8:58 AM, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
> >
> > Hi. I can’t see it as a problem as my Android devices don’t have a home
> button and Talkback will tell you when your finger is on the home button.
> >> On 1 Jul 2017, at 02:29, Mary Otten  wrote:
> >>
> >> The impression I got from the article was that this button goes away in
> ios11. 11. Maybe I misunderstood what I read. I hope I did, because I use
> that a lot. And I'm aware of the app switcher. I'm also aware that the home
> button is apparently going away completely in terms of a physical feelable
> button on the next phone. So it will be interesting how Apple makes that
> easily findable with VO.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jun 30, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Chris Moore  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mary,
> >>> When you go into a link from an e-mail, there is a return to mail
> button in the top left corner.  As far as returning to a previous app is
> concerned, we have an app switcher for that.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
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Re: ios 11 beta

[Kevin Chao]

Installing beta configuration profile certificate on Apple Watch is
straightforward and can be done via iPhone. Similar to activating the link
for iPhone, one only need select “Watch” as destination.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 7:26 PM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> Oh that’s not bad.  I have Xcode installed and am familiar with what it
> installs.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2017, at 10:21 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>
> You Need to be Using Xcode, so People That Don’t Have Max Essentially
> Cannot do This Process. You Need Xcode to Get The UD ID of Your Watch,
> Which Can Only be Found When Impaired iPhone is Connected to The Computer.
> Once The UD ID is Registered With The Developer site, Then You Install The
> Beta Profile on Your Watch and Check For Updates as Normal.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 2, 2017, at 9:49 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> How difficult is it to install the beta on the watch?
>
> I thought this was a very involved process, did you find it simple or have
> things changed since I last looked?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2017, at 10:13 AM, Jenine Stanley 
> wrote:
>
> Simon, Just tried this using iOS11 beta on my 6S and my original Apple
> Watch running watchOS 3.2.3 Dev beta 4 and it works. Before I updated the
> Watch though and was using a public version of watchOS, it also worked. I
> do so wish they’d make it a complication, yes I use it that much.
>
> On Jul 2, 2017, at 4:12 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> Can someone with an apple watch and is using the IOS 11 beta check for me
> that the
> ping your phone
> feature of the watch
> isnt’ working currently?
>
>
> Just wanting to confirm that’ it’s not just me and is an issue with the
>  beta
> Note that the watch is running the latest production OS release not a beta.
>
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Re: Type instead of talk to Siri with iOS 11 - CNET

[Kevin Chao]

I wish that this was an “and”, not an “or” option.
If one enable sthe type to Siri, it’s not possible to speak to it when
holding down the HOME button. Yes, there is the “Hey Siri”, but that isn’t
as reliable as the HOME button. It’d be great if like Google Assistant,
it’s possible to open/close keyboard/microphone on the fly.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 7:13 PM M. Taylor  wrote:

> CNET How To - Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:03 AM
>
> Type instead of talk to Siri with iOS 11 - CNET
> Matt Elliott/CNET
>
> Here's how my conversations with Siri usually go: press the Home button,
> ask
> a question, realize I spoke before Siri was listening, press the Home
> button
> again, ask the question, repeat the question because Siri misheard me, ask
> again but louder because Siri still didn't get it right, curse Siri's name,
> open the Google search app and ask it my question or just type it in.
> Siri has some work to do, but with iOS 11 you can type or talk to Siri. Not
> only does typing your queries to Siri avoid the issue of Siri mishearing
> you, but it's also useful when you are sitting in a quiet coffee shop or
> movie theater and want to ask Siri something.
> To enable the feature, go to Settings > General > Accessibility > Siri and
> toggle on Type to Siri. Now, when you long-press the Home button, Siri will
> pop up with her familiar "What can I help you with?" question but with a
> search bar and keyboard below.
>  Screenshot by Matt Elliott/CNET
> If you want both options of typing and talking to Siri, you can enable the
> "Hey, Siri" command so that you can utter those magic words to speak to
> Siri
> and long-press the Home button to type to Siri. You'll find the Hey Siri
> setting by going to Settings > Siri & Search.
> Read more: All the tips, tricks and new features of iOS 11
>
> https://www.cnet.com/how-to/type-instead-of-talk-to-siri-with-ios-11/#ftag=C
> AD5457c2c
> 
>
>
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Re: iOS 11 will stop apps like Uber from constantly tracking your location - CNET

[Kevin Chao]

While choice and lots of settings sounds great in theory–it falls down in
practice. Only power-users, which is a small-subset of the user-base know
about these settings and even a smaller set of users that configure them.
It’s an engineer approach to stuff in lots of settings, but great UX Design
will have excellent defaults that are user focused.
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 7:42 AM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> I agree, more choice is a good thing.  Don’t let Uber or anyone else make
> this choice for me.  As long as there’s a knob I can control my self I’m
> for it.
>
>
> On Jun 19, 2017, at 10:38 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I agree regarding the validity.  The benefit to this feature though is the
> choice from the user prospective.  If the user would rather not these apps
> do this sort of thing, they can disable it.  Improves on security and a
> user's ability to configure to their own preferences.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Jun 17, 2017, at 22:29, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> There’s validity in apps like FourSquare, Yelp, etc. using location
> services in background. E.g. It’s able to provide proactive recommendations
> via notifications based on where I am/near without having to open the app.
> Same goes for being able to have Uber/Lyft know where I am and arrive
> faster–it’s a trade-off between usability and privacy.
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 3:54 PM Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>
>> Yes, this is a good thing. If you are not using an app, there is
>> absolutely no reason for it to be tracking your location, it serves no
>> purpose and probably drains the battery faster.
>> > On Jun 9, 2017, at 3:36 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> >
>> > Wonderful. Hopefully they won't introduce new nasty bugs, because this
>> feature would really be welcome.
>> > Mary
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Jun 9, 2017, at 1:30 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> iOS 11 will stop apps like Uber from constantly tracking your location
>> -
>> >> CNET
>> >> When iOS 11 is available later this year, users will have the option to
>> >> customize how each app uses his or her location - regardless of the
>> options
>> >> a developer provides.
>> >> Prior to iOS 11, users could only use one of the location access
>> options
>> >> provided by developers. That meant, for an app like Uber, you were
>> limited
>> >> to two options. If a developer didn't want to include the option for
>> use
>> >> only while you are using the app, you were stuck with Never or Always.
>> >> iOS 11 now offers both privacy options for any app requesting your
>> location.
>> >> Huge win over apps like Uber "needing" it all the time.
>> >> pic.twitter.com/mZke8InSVD
>> >> - Lance Somoza (@SyrinxStarman) June 6, 2017
>> >> As the above screenshot shows, iOS 11 users are finally given full
>> control
>> >> over when an app can access location data. Naturally, most users will
>> only
>> >> want that to be when he or she is, you know, actually using the app.
>> >> To control each individual app, users will need to go to Settings >
>> Privacy
>> >>> Location Services to adjust individual app settings or as shown in the
>> >> screenshot, iOS 11 will prompt users.
>> >> As is always the case with Apple betas, the company sometimes removes
>> or
>> >> changes features before final release. We will update this post as the
>> beta
>> >> process progresses.
>> >> Apple confirmed to CNET that this is indeed a feature of iOS 11.
>> >>
>> https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-stop-apps-from-constantly-tracking-your-l
>> >> ocation-in-ios-11/#ftag=CAD5457c2c
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> >>
>> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> >>
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>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> >>
>> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> &g

Re: iOS 11 will stop apps like Uber from constantly tracking your location - CNET

[Kevin Chao]

There’s validity in apps like FourSquare, Yelp, etc. using location
services in background. E.g. It’s able to provide proactive recommendations
via notifications based on where I am/near without having to open the app.
Same goes for being able to have Uber/Lyft know where I am and arrive
faster–it’s a trade-off between usability and privacy.
On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 3:54 PM Mike Arrigo  wrote:

> Yes, this is a good thing. If you are not using an app, there is
> absolutely no reason for it to be tracking your location, it serves no
> purpose and probably drains the battery faster.
> > On Jun 9, 2017, at 3:36 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> >
> > Wonderful. Hopefully they won't introduce new nasty bugs, because this
> feature would really be welcome.
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jun 9, 2017, at 1:30 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> >>
> >> iOS 11 will stop apps like Uber from constantly tracking your location -
> >> CNET
> >> When iOS 11 is available later this year, users will have the option to
> >> customize how each app uses his or her location - regardless of the
> options
> >> a developer provides.
> >> Prior to iOS 11, users could only use one of the location access options
> >> provided by developers. That meant, for an app like Uber, you were
> limited
> >> to two options. If a developer didn't want to include the option for use
> >> only while you are using the app, you were stuck with Never or Always.
> >> iOS 11 now offers both privacy options for any app requesting your
> location.
> >> Huge win over apps like Uber "needing" it all the time.
> >> pic.twitter.com/mZke8InSVD
> >> - Lance Somoza (@SyrinxStarman) June 6, 2017
> >> As the above screenshot shows, iOS 11 users are finally given full
> control
> >> over when an app can access location data. Naturally, most users will
> only
> >> want that to be when he or she is, you know, actually using the app.
> >> To control each individual app, users will need to go to Settings >
> Privacy
> >>> Location Services to adjust individual app settings or as shown in the
> >> screenshot, iOS 11 will prompt users.
> >> As is always the case with Apple betas, the company sometimes removes or
> >> changes features before final release. We will update this post as the
> beta
> >> process progresses.
> >> Apple confirmed to CNET that this is indeed a feature of iOS 11.
> >>
> https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-stop-apps-from-constantly-tracking-your-l
> >> ocation-in-ios-11/#ftag=CAD5457c2c
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> Visionaries list.
> >>
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Re: iOS 11 will let you record your iPhone or iPad's screen - CNET

[Kevin Chao]

The Screen REcording does *not* include audio, so VoiceOver and other
system audio will not be present. It’s only a “screen recorder” in the true
sense. For screen recording that includes VoiceOver/audio, we’ll have to
continue to use QuickTime on the Mac.
On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 12:10 PM christopher hallsworth <
challswor...@icloud.com> wrote:

> Hello, at this stage, it will be the dev beta. Public beta is scheduled
> for release at the end of this month. No pung intended, but Apple announced
> this in public at their keynote.
> > On 11 Jun 2017, at 02:22, Jessica Moss 
> wrote:
> >
> > That sounds interesting.  I wonder if that will help with captcha
> solving issues as well?
> >> On Jun 10, 2017, at 2:00 AM, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Alex is that the public beta or dev beta?
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor
> >> Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2017 8:26 AM
> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: iOS 11 will let you record your iPhone or iPad's screen - CNET
> >>
> >> iOS 11 will let you record your iPhone or iPad's screen - CNET The
> developer preview is out, and users are beginning to talk about features
> Apple didn't announce during the keynote. One such feature is built-in
> screen recording.
> >> It appears - as of right now - the feature is triggered through a
> button in Control Center. There's a bit of work you'll need to do to set it
> up, but once it's there, you can record your iOS device's display to show
> off your gaming skills, or capture a random bug that keeps occurring.
> >> Below you can check out the video Twitter user @Alexpettitt made
> detailing how to enable and use the feature:
> >> I had way too much fun recording this... but here's how to enable
> screen recorder in iOS 11 and turn on / off mic too:
> pic.twitter.com/CAU0td9tG5
> >> - Alex Pettitt (@Alexpettitt) June 7, 2017 Presumably, you can then
> edit and share the screen recording just as can any other video stored on
> your iOS device. This is surely going to come in handy for many users.
> >> Since we are seeing the feature in an early beta, Apple can change how
> the feature looks and works. We will be sure to update this post with any
> changes up until iOS 11 is released to the public later this fall.
> >> Apple confirmed to CNET this is indeed a feature of iOS 11.
> >>
> https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-use-ios-11-built-in-screen-recording-feat
> >> ure/#ftag=CAD5457c2c
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >>
> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>
> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>
> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >> ---
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> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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> >>
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> >>
> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>
> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that

Re: Any 2017 Apple-Related New Year Resolutions?

[Kevin Chao]

Jonathan,

M56 is in beta currently and will be stable very-shortly. It's a lot better
than M50.
chromevox-disc...@googlegroups.com is the group you're looking for!

Thanks!

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:23 AM Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

> Kevin,
>
> Is it much better than Chrome 50? Right now, we only support Chrome 45-50
> for our clients. If you could provide me a mailing list for ChromeVox users
> I would gladly participate. I know how to find a list of open Chrome Vox
> Next bugs, but is there a canary new features list I don't feel comfortable
> supporting ChromeVox on the above versions.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jonathan Cohn
>
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> Hi Devin,
>
> Have you tried ChromeVox Next on Chrome OS M56?
> Thanks!
>
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 7:59 AM Devin Prater  wrote:
>
> The biggest problem with me getting into Chrome OS, for me at least, is
> that there is no usable MUD client for that system, neither is there one
> for Android, either. So Windows still has me with that.
>
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>
> On January 16, 2017 9:31:58 AM Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>
> Simon,
>
> ChromeVox works best within the ChromeBook environment.  I'm not familiar
> with it's functionality within Windows, but on the Mac, the biggest
> limitation of CV is that it does not work with the MacOS menu items etc.
> That is, it is a screen reading solution for everything within the
> web-content of the Chrome browser, but does not announce the MacOS aspects
> of the browser window nor the MacOS menus.  In a ChromeBook, this is not an
> issue as everything that CV needs to access is speakable.
>
> Regarding Admin tools, you'd likely need to look in the Chrome Web Store.
> As in the MacApp Store, the Chrome Web Store has tons and tons of apps.  I
> suspect that there are such tools that you're speaking of, but cannot
> confirm right now.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Jan 16, 2017, at 00:46, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> I’d also like to have a look at the chrome book or more specifically
> chromevox
> But I’d like to know if there are admin type tools and remote access
> services to other OS platforms such as windows or mac os.
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Granados
> *Sent:* Monday, 16 January 2017 2:02 AM
> *To:* MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
> *Subject:* Re: Any 2017 Apple-Related New Year Resolutions?
>
> I will definitely give that a look.
>
> Chrome book sounds like an interesting way to go.
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> Hey Scott,
>
> If you haven't done so yet, I'd recommend taking a look at Chrome
> OS/Books. The new rewrite, ChromeVox Next has the best performance,
> support, and delight factors compared to legacy screen readers.
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:59 AM Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> I think over the next year I’ll be diversifying a bit off of apple more on
> to Google.  I like what Google is doing now and think if they make a few
> key changes their next phone could be a real power house.  I’m going to
> stick with my iPhones and Macs but I need to see Apple make some real
> improvements and changes to remain exclusive like I have been.  I’ve been
> trying windows lately and still hate it as much as ever so I don’t think
> I’ll be changing my laptop game around much but I’m going to really see a
> big upgrade in phones from Apple this year.  Siri needs serious work as
> well.  Google is doing very interesting things now, especially on the
> google home side of things and I’m having a blast with that equipment.
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Shawn.
> >
> > Yes, I agree with you there.  I also have goals rather than resolutions
> as then you will stick to goals as these are what you really want to do,
> and are most important to you.
> >
> > Thinking about it, I prefer goals rather than resolutions.
> >
> > Hope you get your new computer soon.
> >
> > Kawal.
> >> On 13 Jan 2017, at 21:57, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> >>
> >> Well Mark, first off, I don't make resolutions, I make goals. The big
> goal I have is to get a new Mac by the summer as this one probably won't be
> able to run the next operating system. I teach a student on a weekly basis
> and I want to be able to tell her what to expect in the new OS once it's
> released.
> >>
> >> Shawn
> >> Sent From My White MacBook
> >

Re: Any 2017 Apple-Related New Year Resolutions?

[Kevin Chao]

Hi Devin,

Have you tried ChromeVox Next on Chrome OS M56?
Thanks!

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 7:59 AM Devin Prater  wrote:

> The biggest problem with me getting into Chrome OS, for me at least, is
> that there is no usable MUD client for that system, neither is there one
> for Android, either. So Windows still has me with that.
>
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>
> On January 16, 2017 9:31:58 AM Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>
> Simon,
>
> ChromeVox works best within the ChromeBook environment.  I'm not familiar
> with it's functionality within Windows, but on the Mac, the biggest
> limitation of CV is that it does not work with the MacOS menu items etc.
> That is, it is a screen reading solution for everything within the
> web-content of the Chrome browser, but does not announce the MacOS aspects
> of the browser window nor the MacOS menus.  In a ChromeBook, this is not an
> issue as everything that CV needs to access is speakable.
>
> Regarding Admin tools, you'd likely need to look in the Chrome Web Store.
> As in the MacApp Store, the Chrome Web Store has tons and tons of apps.  I
> suspect that there are such tools that you're speaking of, but cannot
> confirm right now.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Jan 16, 2017, at 00:46, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> I’d also like to have a look at the chrome book or more specifically
> chromevox
> But I’d like to know if there are admin type tools and remote access
> services to other OS platforms such as windows or mac os.
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Granados
> *Sent:* Monday, 16 January 2017 2:02 AM
> *To:* MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
> *Subject:* Re: Any 2017 Apple-Related New Year Resolutions?
>
> I will definitely give that a look.
>
> Chrome book sounds like an interesting way to go.
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> Hey Scott,
>
> If you haven't done so yet, I'd recommend taking a look at Chrome
> OS/Books. The new rewrite, ChromeVox Next has the best performance,
> support, and delight factors compared to legacy screen readers.
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:59 AM Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> I think over the next year I’ll be diversifying a bit off of apple more on
> to Google.  I like what Google is doing now and think if they make a few
> key changes their next phone could be a real power house.  I’m going to
> stick with my iPhones and Macs but I need to see Apple make some real
> improvements and changes to remain exclusive like I have been.  I’ve been
> trying windows lately and still hate it as much as ever so I don’t think
> I’ll be changing my laptop game around much but I’m going to really see a
> big upgrade in phones from Apple this year.  Siri needs serious work as
> well.  Google is doing very interesting things now, especially on the
> google home side of things and I’m having a blast with that equipment.
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Shawn.
> >
> > Yes, I agree with you there.  I also have goals rather than resolutions
> as then you will stick to goals as these are what you really want to do,
> and are most important to you.
> >
> > Thinking about it, I prefer goals rather than resolutions.
> >
> > Hope you get your new computer soon.
> >
> > Kawal.
> >> On 13 Jan 2017, at 21:57, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> >>
> >> Well Mark, first off, I don't make resolutions, I make goals. The big
> goal I have is to get a new Mac by the summer as this one probably won't be
> able to run the next operating system. I teach a student on a weekly basis
> and I want to be able to tell her what to expect in the new OS once it's
> released.
> >>
> >> Shawn
> >> Sent From My White MacBook
> >> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> >> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> >> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> >> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> >>
> >>> On Jan 12, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mark,
> >>>
> >>> For once, I like your resolution.
> >>>
> >>> As for myself, although I don't believe in resolutions, like last year
> if any new apple product comes out, I am going to get an honest opinion
> first and not just rely on the company who will market their product as I
> will go for a proper considered approach.
> >>>
> >>> Last year, I waited for a friend to buy his Apple 

Re: sierra and battery status

[Kevin Chao]

Say Power Status: If your Mac is running on battery power, this script
announces the percent of the battery remaining, and the estimated run-time.
If your Mac is running on mains/wall power, the battery percentage is
reported, along with the estimated recharge time.
https://blog.bryansmart.com/2014/07/24/some-scripts-for-voiceover/

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 5:48 PM Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

> Hi Tim. I actually didn't make the Battery Status script. I downloaded it
> a few years ago, coincidentally, from this list when someone else shared it.
>
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>
> > On Jan 15, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > If your Mac is charging, then the battery status is announced by VO, if
> not, then you have a few options.  You can ask Siri, works but problematic
> in a meeting or other public venue.  You can go to System Prefs in the
> Energy Saver pane and it is available there.  Also, in the Activity
> Monitor.  Finally, there is a script that Shaun made available that will,
> in conjunction with a Keyboard Commander setting, announce the battery
> status by pressing right option-b.
> >
> > Later...
> >
> > Tim Kilburn
> > Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> >
> > On Jan 15, 2017, at 09:44, Gabe Griffith 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I know this discussion came up a while back but I wasn't running Sierra
> then. I have recently updated my Mac to Sierra and the menu extras option
> is not showing the battery level. What is the trick or where can it now be
> found?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gabe
> >
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
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> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
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> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>

-- 

Re: Mac book pro touch bar

[Kevin Chao]

"You can use the number row in place of function keys, simply by holding
down function and pressing the number you want. For example, our vo-cmd-f5
command would be the VO modifier, command key, function key, and the number
5. It is important to note that this extends to the accent key, above the
tab key; pressing this with the function key is the same as pressing
escape."

Above is from:
http://www.applevis.com/blog/opinion-reviews/review-2016-macbook-pro-touch-bar

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 5:55 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:

> The one limitation is that this does not work to enable voiceover in
> recovery, think i will stick to regular function keys.
> > On Jan 14, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi listers,
> >
> > I just thought I’d pass on a little tip that I found today while playing
> with one of the new touch bar mac book pro machines.
> >
> > Those who have the new MBP have probably found this and others may
> already have read about it.
> >
> > The ability to turn on VoiceOver or one of the other accessibility
> features isn’t as difficult as we first thought due to no function keys
> being avaible.
> >
> > I found today that if you triple press the button in the top right hand
> corner  I believe it’s the one for the finger print sensor or was formily
> the eject button on the older machines,
> > It gives a menu with spoken prompts for all the accessibility features
> > And then allows you to tab through the list and use the space bar to
> enable the feature you require
> >
> > All with a voiceover like prompt speaking each of the options tabbed to.
> >
> > Ok so you could just add in the command key and the top right key and
> get VO straight away but I just thought this feature was a very cool
> inclusion making life a bit easier
> >
> > Now If I could just find the short cut keys for turning up volume then
> it might be easier again,
> > Tapping the touch bar and then sliding to the volume up touch pad area
> isn’t as easy as it appears
> >
> > Have a good day everyone and hope this is a usefull tip.
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> > ---
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>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
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>
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> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
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can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Any 2017 Apple-Related New Year Resolutions?

[Kevin Chao]

Braille support on Chrome OS/Vox Next is based on brltty.
I use VarioUltra 40 with Google Pixel 2 all of the time :)

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 5:41 AM Anders Holmberg 
wrote:

> Hi!
> If one could get brltty to run under ChromeOs i maybe would like to try it
> but i still do love my mac.
> But since i don’t use any home automation yet i may be lucky for a while.
> /A
>
> 15 jan. 2017 kl. 14:02 skrev Scott Granados :
>
> I will definitely give that a look.
>
> Chrome book sounds like an interesting way to go.
>
> On Jan 14, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> Hey Scott,
>
> If you haven't done so yet, I'd recommend taking a look at Chrome
> OS/Books. The new rewrite, ChromeVox Next has the best performance,
> support, and delight factors compared to legacy screen readers.
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:59 AM Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> I think over the next year I’ll be diversifying a bit off of apple more on
> to Google.  I like what Google is doing now and think if they make a few
> key changes their next phone could be a real power house.  I’m going to
> stick with my iPhones and Macs but I need to see Apple make some real
> improvements and changes to remain exclusive like I have been.  I’ve been
> trying windows lately and still hate it as much as ever so I don’t think
> I’ll be changing my laptop game around much but I’m going to really see a
> big upgrade in phones from Apple this year.  Siri needs serious work as
> well.  Google is doing very interesting things now, especially on the
> google home side of things and I’m having a blast with that equipment.
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Shawn.
> >
> > Yes, I agree with you there.  I also have goals rather than resolutions
> as then you will stick to goals as these are what you really want to do,
> and are most important to you.
> >
> > Thinking about it, I prefer goals rather than resolutions.
> >
> > Hope you get your new computer soon.
> >
> > Kawal.
> >> On 13 Jan 2017, at 21:57, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> >>
> >> Well Mark, first off, I don't make resolutions, I make goals. The big
> goal I have is to get a new Mac by the summer as this one probably won't be
> able to run the next operating system. I teach a student on a weekly basis
> and I want to be able to tell her what to expect in the new OS once it's
> released.
> >>
> >> Shawn
> >> Sent From My White MacBook
> >> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> >> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> >> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> >> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> >>
> >>> On Jan 12, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mark,
> >>>
> >>> For once, I like your resolution.
> >>>
> >>> As for myself, although I don't believe in resolutions, like last year
> if any new apple product comes out, I am going to get an honest opinion
> first and not just rely on the company who will market their product as I
> will go for a proper considered approach.
> >>>
> >>> Last year, I waited for a friend to buy his Apple I watch, second
> Generation and after a week, I asked him for his view.  Based on what he
> said, I did not buy the watch.  I was very glad as I heard that he sold it
> after being disappointed.  Just a shame he lost a bit of money, but I saved
> myself from an unwise purchase.
> >>>
> >>> However, based on the companies description of stereo speakers on the
> I phone, I went for it.
> >>>
> >>> With the Brexit negotiations, you don't know if inflation is going to
> go up (as they say it will), therefore, products will become expensive in
> the short term.  However, if Apple are moving here to the UK, then I hope
> we have more Apple stores as you can only go to the Apple store here if you
> live in a  handful of cities.  I don't even know how they are chosen.  If
> anyone knows, please enlighten me.  Bad luck to Ireland who will lose their
> big store thanks to the EU's greed re taxes.
> >>>
> >>> Kawal.
> >>>> On 12 Jan 2017, at 19:55, M. Taylor  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello Everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> I was just wondering if any of you have made any Apple related 2017
> new year
> >>>> resolutions?
> >>>>
> >>>> As for me, my 2017 resolution is to (1), thank/acknowledge at least 1
> app
> >>>> developer per month for continuing to include V

Re: Any 2017 Apple-Related New Year Resolutions?

[Kevin Chao]

Hey Scott,

If you haven't done so yet, I'd recommend taking a look at Chrome OS/Books.
The new rewrite, ChromeVox Next has the best performance, support, and
delight factors compared to legacy screen readers.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:59 AM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> I think over the next year I’ll be diversifying a bit off of apple more on
> to Google.  I like what Google is doing now and think if they make a few
> key changes their next phone could be a real power house.  I’m going to
> stick with my iPhones and Macs but I need to see Apple make some real
> improvements and changes to remain exclusive like I have been.  I’ve been
> trying windows lately and still hate it as much as ever so I don’t think
> I’ll be changing my laptop game around much but I’m going to really see a
> big upgrade in phones from Apple this year.  Siri needs serious work as
> well.  Google is doing very interesting things now, especially on the
> google home side of things and I’m having a blast with that equipment.
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:46 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Shawn.
> >
> > Yes, I agree with you there.  I also have goals rather than resolutions
> as then you will stick to goals as these are what you really want to do,
> and are most important to you.
> >
> > Thinking about it, I prefer goals rather than resolutions.
> >
> > Hope you get your new computer soon.
> >
> > Kawal.
> >> On 13 Jan 2017, at 21:57, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> >>
> >> Well Mark, first off, I don't make resolutions, I make goals. The big
> goal I have is to get a new Mac by the summer as this one probably won't be
> able to run the next operating system. I teach a student on a weekly basis
> and I want to be able to tell her what to expect in the new OS once it's
> released.
> >>
> >> Shawn
> >> Sent From My White MacBook
> >> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> >> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> >> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> >> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> >>
> >>> On Jan 12, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mark,
> >>>
> >>> For once, I like your resolution.
> >>>
> >>> As for myself, although I don't believe in resolutions, like last year
> if any new apple product comes out, I am going to get an honest opinion
> first and not just rely on the company who will market their product as I
> will go for a proper considered approach.
> >>>
> >>> Last year, I waited for a friend to buy his Apple I watch, second
> Generation and after a week, I asked him for his view.  Based on what he
> said, I did not buy the watch.  I was very glad as I heard that he sold it
> after being disappointed.  Just a shame he lost a bit of money, but I saved
> myself from an unwise purchase.
> >>>
> >>> However, based on the companies description of stereo speakers on the
> I phone, I went for it.
> >>>
> >>> With the Brexit negotiations, you don't know if inflation is going to
> go up (as they say it will), therefore, products will become expensive in
> the short term.  However, if Apple are moving here to the UK, then I hope
> we have more Apple stores as you can only go to the Apple store here if you
> live in a  handful of cities.  I don't even know how they are chosen.  If
> anyone knows, please enlighten me.  Bad luck to Ireland who will lose their
> big store thanks to the EU's greed re taxes.
> >>>
> >>> Kawal.
>  On 12 Jan 2017, at 19:55, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
>  Hello Everyone,
> 
>  I was just wondering if any of you have made any Apple related 2017
> new year
>  resolutions?
> 
>  As for me, my 2017 resolution is to (1), thank/acknowledge at least 1
> app
>  developer per month for continuing to include VoiceOver accessibility
> in its
>  updates and (2), to lobby at least 1 currently non-VoiceOver
> accessible app
>  developer to either add or improve VoiceOver accessibility to its
> offerings.
> 
>  I look forward to your replies,
> 
>  Mark
> 
>  --
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Re: Are there any Mac TouchID specific accessibility gotcha's?

[Kevin Chao]

Thinking of purchasing MacBook Pro w/ TouchID and touch-bar

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:05 AM Kevin Chao  wrote:

> I know some here have the new MacBook Pro with TouchID.
> Thinking back to the setup, enrollment, and authentication of TouchID with
> VoiceOver. Were there any issues?
>
> If so, what are they? If not, fantastic!
>

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Are there any Mac TouchID specific accessibility gotcha's?

[Kevin Chao]

I know some here have the new MacBook Pro with TouchID.
Thinking back to the setup, enrollment, and authentication of TouchID with
VoiceOver. Were there any issues?

If so, what are they? If not, fantastic!

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Re: Apple watch tutorials

[Kevin Chao]

Does Braille display work w/ Apple Watch?

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 6:25 PM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Hi there Maurice,
>
> thanks for those details,
> it is interesting to hear how someone in the deaf blind world uses one of
> the apple watchs,
>  very interesting.
>
> I also find it interesting to see your statement about using dragon for
> the mac to create the email,
> It would appear that dragon on the mac is very good quality and well worth
> looking at as a voice recognition software.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> Simon
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of maurice.mines
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2017 9:49 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple watch tutorials
>
> Good afternoon everyone, I couldn’t resist. I have had the Apple Watch for
> about a month now. And I am positively impressed. So far, I’ve not had too
> many issues. It is a tiny bit different as a person who was learning how to
> be deaf blind. In case you’re wondering, let me explain. I am currently a
> student at the Helen Keller national Center for deaf and blind used in
> adults. It the main reason why I wound up buying the watch, is because my
> iPhone had to be turned into a communications device. Thanks similar to an
> iPad. So this created a bit of a challenge or friends, family, etc. to
> reach me. Basically what happens now is while staff are using my phone to
> contact me at least now I get a tactile reminder that there is an email,
> text message, or other communication from the above-mentioned groups that
> is waiting for me directly. The other benefit for me so far has been that
> when I set an alarm, say wake up each morning. I can set it on the launch
> it vibrates the same for the most part as the phone does. The added benefit
> is that the phone can stay where it normally stays in order to charge at
> night. I am such a light sleeper, that the watch vibrations generally do
> wake me up each morning. I’ve also been able to start it to tactfully
> remind me that it is the end of the class day should I have a class where I
> am essentially doing an independent study session. I’ve also successfully
> used at the time other things, such as laundry, as well as when I need to
> be at something that essence an activity that fits into class time
> precisely.
>
> I hope my comments help anyone who may be reading this conversation, and
> wonders if the watch is right for them. I must stress however, that the
> watch may not be for everybody. I must admit that when I first purchased
> it, I thought okay I’m here to learn new things, let’s see if this is a
> beneficial use of the amount of money that it cost to purchase the watch.
>
> Sincerely  maurice mines.
> Note the above text has been dictated to the computer by means of Dragon
> 6.1 for Mac OSx Sierra. If there are any errors in the text of my comments
> above, they may be the result of my other software, or the dictation
> process. If there’s something that I’ve written that you truly didn’t
> understand, please ask me, I will do my very best to clear up any
> misunderstandings.
> > On Jan 2, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Chris Moore  wrote:
> >
> > Thank your for your helpful replies.  I’ll take another look at the
> applevis info now that I know it is still mostly applicable.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > --
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Re: Macbook pro 2012 running slow

[Kevin Chao]

+1 to SSD and more RAM

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 6:30 PM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
>  If you were to change the drive then I wouldn't suggest anything other
> than going an SSD, even a 7200 RPM drive is not going to add much but an
> SSD will change things dramatically.
>
>
> A spindle drive will not add much to things.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Lamanche
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2017 11:37 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Macbook pro 2012 running slow
>
> Tim,
>
> Thanks for this.  Do you think that installing a different drive that's
> faster might make a difference rather than SSD?  It's just that I don't
> think the owner would consider.  Can one install/swap the 5400 drive for a
> faster drive?
>
> Andrew
> > On 2 Jan 2017, at 18:30, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > In my opinion, a clean install would most likely have very minimal
> impact on the speed of that unit.  We have a number of those at work and I
> have had quite a few complaints from the users with respect to slowness and
> such like you're reporting.  These users are not VO users either.
> Performance can be improved either with more RAM or with the installation
> of an SSD.  Bumping it up to 8 GB RAM improves it somewhat, at least I got
> less complaints.  Bumping it up to 16 GB RAM improved things even more.
> The installation of the SSD would make the biggest impact though.  The one
> user that I installed 16 GB of RAM with a new SSD thought that they had a
> new computer.  They were able to use Adobe Premiere with ease after the
> update which is a very memory and processor intensive application.  The 500
> GB drives in those units are only 5400 RPM units and with 4 GB RAM, they
> just don't have the horsepower to run things in Sierra comfortably.  In
> fact, even El Capitan was giving that configuration quite a work out.
> >
> > HTH.
> >
> > Later...
> >
> > Tim Kilburn
> > Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> >
> > On Jan 2, 2017, at 11:09, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > I'd like to ask your advise.  A friend of mine has a 2012 macbook pro
> with 4GB RAM, 2.4 GHZ processor and non-solid 500GB drive.  It seem to run
> rather frustratingly slowly.  It regularly freezes and generally
> applications take a long time to open.  Do you think it would be worth
> while to do a clean install of Sierra on it?  I'd appreciate any comments
> here.  I understand that rotating hard drives take a bit longer but it is
> after all 2.4 GHZ and they don't even use Voiceover.  I know it's slightly
> of topic, but I would be doing their clean install using Voiceover in the
> process.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > --
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Re: Join Me in Requesting that VoiceOver Accessibility be Added to Head Space, an iOS Voice Guided Meditation App

[Kevin Chao]

"Hey Google, talk to Head Space" is perfectly accessible with Google Home
(smart-speakered powered-by Google Assistant).

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 4:34 AM Donna Goodin  wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Done.  In the meantime, you might want to try the app Omvana.  It sounds
> similar.  I don't use it often, so can't guarantee it's 100% accessible,
> but if not, most of it is.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> > On Jan 2, 2017, at 1:00 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Everyone and Happy New Year to you all.
> >
> > A voice guided iOS meditation app, Head Space, was showcased on the NBC
> > weekend news, yesterday.  The basic features of the app are free so I
> > decided to give it a try.
> >
> > I was most impressed, however, sadly, at present, I cannot recommend it
> for
> > blind/ low vision users as some of the initial screens and subsequent
> > controls are not VoiceOver accessible.
> >
> > So, please join me in requesting that VoiceOver accessibility be added.
> >
> > While there is no direct email address available, a very simple and
> > easy-to-use request form may be submitted at:
> > https://help.headspace.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
> >
> > Of course, you may also submit a request for accessibility via the app's
> > page in the App Store at:
> > https://appsto.re/us/WUmzD.i
> >
> > Finally, I will paste in some information about the app below my
> signature.
> >
> > As always, thank you all for your support,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > Headspace: Guided Meditation and Mindfulness
> > By Headspace meditation limited
> >
> > Customer Reviews
> > My favorite app
> > by olivia24
> >
> > This is the only app I pay for, and it's certainly my favorite. I have
> used
> > it for 2 years and it keeps me on track with my meditation practice.
> There
> > are "packs" I like more than others, but overall I'm really impressed
> with
> > the simple and effective guided sessions. It keeps me accountable and it
> > provides me with lots of guided meditations to choose from, including
> > exercises on sleeping, happiness, focus, appreciation, anxiety, etc.
> What I
> > pay for the app is less than going to one in-person meditation class a
> > month, so it's well worth it for me considering how much of an
> improvement I
> > see in my mood and outlook when I'm meditating.
> >
> > In terms of cons, my biggest pet peeve about the app is that if you
> decide
> > midway through a pack of themed sessions that you don't like it, or want
> to
> > switch to a different pack, the only way to do that requires losing all
> your
> > progress -- you have to finish your current pack before starting a new
> one.
> > Some packs are 30 sessions, which makes this quite a commitment. For
> > example, I didn't like the "relationship" pack and I was actually
> avoiding
> > meditation or sticking with the "classic singles" (unthemed guided or
> > unguided meditations that you can do whenever without disrupting your
> > progress through a specific course). When I realized how silly that was,
> I
> > switched to a new pack -- losing all my progress in the relationship
> pack,
> > which I'd gotten something like 20 days into. Annoying.
> >
> > Overall though, I highly recommend it!
> >
> > An unexpected blessing
> > by Katyia
> > I never write reviews but I'm compelled to write this one. I battle with
> > anxiety and PTSD. I've been introduced to meditation in the past and
> found
> > it slow and boring. I was never able to sit still long enough to keep up
> the
> > practice. Recently my doctor suggested this app and from the first day I
> was
> > hooked. I find Andy's voice peaceful, calming, and compassionate in what
> > feels to me to be a very noisy, scary world sometimes.
> > I am only on day 5 of the first 10 days, but already I feel more in tune
> > with my body and mind. I'm having more compassion for myself and my
> chronic
> > health issues and I actually take the time to sit down and meditate
> because
> > I'm important and this is "me" time!
> > I look forward to this every day and last night when I was struggling to
> > sleep, I used some of the tools I've learned already, to help me fall
> off to
> > sleep. I believe in meditation now, and I'm excited to see the changes
> that
> > will come from learning how to meditate. In some ways this app is a
> > lifesaver and I believe can help add years to my life by helping me deal
> > with my chronic health issues. I had no hope that this app would help
> but It
> > is definitely an unexpected blessing.
> >
> > --
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Re: reading battery level in sierra, and a few other things

[Kevin Chao]

Chrome beats Safari in performance, security, accessibility, and other
metrics.

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 3:09 PM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> From what I’ve read as well, google chrome is much more efficient in power
> use than safari.  Safari is supposedly a big power draw.  Some people are
> using chrome in it’s place for better battery results.
>
> > On Dec 31, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> >
> > From all I've read, it's not as simple as that. The new processors have
> two modes, one high-power and one low-power, between which they switch
> constantly. Thus, any battery time indicator on the new Pro will almost
> certainly be inaccurate, because a few minutes at high power could be the
> same as a longer time at low power. This would cause the time estimate to
> be all over the place. Apple therefore decided to just show you the
> remaining percentage, just like it's done on iOS since the beginning.
> >
> > Personally, I much prefer this, or I would if I could read it. :) I'm so
> used to percentage only on iOS, and gauging time left by where my
> percentage is at a given point in the day, that it makes more sense to me.
> We all know no laptop battery time estimate is going to be very good, so I
> like having the raw percentage and doing my own estimate. Yes, there's more
> Apple could do here with better and more complex algarithms and models, but
> for now, this feels like a good solution and not the scandal some on
> Twitter and in the media want it to become. But that's just me.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 31, 2016, at 10:18, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> >>
> >> Command+space is actually the default spotlight command, you could
> change that in keyboard preferences, but that's the default.
> >>> On Dec 31, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I don't knowhow, but my new Pro is set to open Spotlight when you hit
> cmd-space. If you hold that down for  a second, though, Siri appears.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Dec 31, 2016, at 09:23, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>  One small correction, I think you mean Option+Space. :)
>  Cheers,
>  Donna
> > On Dec 31, 2016, at 6:32 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> >
> > As of Sierra, you can. Hold down cmd-space until you hear the tone,
> then speak. As far as I can tell, this is like iOS in that you can keep
> holding the keys down, or release them immediately and let Siri figure out,
> by a pause in your speaking, when you've finished your command.
> >
> > --
> > Alex Hall
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 31, 2016, at 07:27, 'Eleanor Roberts' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi. This is all very helpful. Just out of interest, how do you use
> Siri on the Mac?? I use it on my IPhone etc all the time, but didn't know
> you could do it on Mac too.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Eleanor
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On 31 Dec 2016, at 05:00, 'Peggy' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have a Macbook Air. I didn't have a problem checking battery
> status until I updated my mac a couple of weeks ago. I use siri to check
> the battery, very easy to do.
> >>> Peggy and Dixie Marie
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 30, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Mike Arrigo 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hey everyone, going to cover a few different things in one
> message. First, as the subject says, has anyone else had issues reading the
> time remaining or percentage of a macbook battery in sierra? This happens
> on my 2010 macbook, and my girl friend's 2015 macbook pro. While in the
> status menus, moving left and right with the voiceover cursor allows you to
> get to the battery item, but it just says battery or something similar, no
> time remaining or percentage, this happens whether the option to show the
> percentage is checked or not in the menu. The only way I know of to get
> around this is to check it in the energy saver settings in system
> preferences. Interestingly, you can no longer use the regular arrow keys to
> navigate the status menus, you must use VO navigation. I don't mind this,
> actually it's more consistent this way since before, the arrow keys only
> navigated built in items like wifi or the battery, third party items such
> as dropbox always have required VO navigation to access them.
> >>> I can confirm that on the 2010 macbook, the same issue I had with
> my 2010 mac mini does happen, when using Alex, speech disappears, sometimes
> for a few seconds, sometimes completely, again, switching to a Nuance voice
> resolved it.
> >>> I actually got a Christmas present for myself, a new mac mini, the
> issue does not happen on the newer hardware. I am using a fit headless
> adapter connected to the HDMI port, out of curiosity, I decided to
> disconnect it and see if voiceover was as sluggish as it used to be,
> 

Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover

[Kevin Chao]

ChromeVox Next will be default in M56 of Chrome OS (ChromeBooks), which is
targetted for January 2017.
Chrome browser will *NOT* support ChromeVox Next, as there should be
sufficient support by native platform screen readers (e.g. Mac VoiceOver,
Windows NVDA).

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 9:11 AM Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

> Will Chrome VOX Next be available for the Chrome browser too? I haven't
> payed much attention to the progress of Next recently, but it had appeared
> they would be switching this on as a default in the next few months last
> time I looked.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jonathan Cohn
>
>
>
> On Dec 28, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> I use and recommend ChromeVox on mac:
>
> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromevox/kgejglhpjiefppelpmljglcjbhoiplfn
> It provides a lot better experience with G Suite.
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 5:59 AM Kat DeNicola 
> wrote:
>
> Hi. Haven't had time to do a topic search for this, so maybe it's already
> been addressed, but I'm having no luck using the help information from
> google on using docs with voiceover on the mac. I can't even find the edit
> field for the body of the document, just the field for giving it a title.
> Navigating to and activating a menu, or using the VO passthrough key and
> then the shortcut to activate a specific menu, yields inconsistent results.
> I made sure quicknav was off and that screen reader mode was enabled. What
> am I missing? Or is it actually just a mess anyway?
>
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Re: speed test on Mac

[Kevin Chao]

Fast.com by Netflix
It shows the download speed and is very accuracy and accessible.
e.g.

230

Compare on
SPEEDTEST.NET


Mbps
?


On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 9:28 AM Christina C. 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> What’s the best and easiest accessible way to test my internet speed on my
> mac. I’ve tried speedtest.net and I can’t seem to access the part of the
> page to test my internet speed.
>
> Thanks,
> Christina
>
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Re: reading battery level in sierra, and a few other things

[Kevin Chao]

I've been using AppleScript mapped to RIGHT_OPTION-B (it worked pre-Sierra
and wasn't phased by .2):
Say The Time: Similar to Apple’s time script, but speaks using VoiceOver’s
default synth.
https://blog.bryansmart.com/2014/07/24/some-scripts-for-voiceover/

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 8:33 AM Chris Meredith  wrote:

> Probably not the best idea in a meeting though, I expect.
> > On Dec 31, 2016, at 12:00 AM, 'Peggy' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have a Macbook Air. I didn't have a problem checking battery status
> until I updated my mac a couple of weeks ago. I use siri to check the
> battery, very easy to do.
> > Peggy and Dixie Marie
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Dec 30, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> >
> > Hey everyone, going to cover a few different things in one message.
> First, as the subject says, has anyone else had issues reading the time
> remaining or percentage of a macbook battery in sierra? This happens on my
> 2010 macbook, and my girl friend's 2015 macbook pro. While in the status
> menus, moving left and right with the voiceover cursor allows you to get to
> the battery item, but it just says battery or something similar, no time
> remaining or percentage, this happens whether the option to show the
> percentage is checked or not in the menu. The only way I know of to get
> around this is to check it in the energy saver settings in system
> preferences. Interestingly, you can no longer use the regular arrow keys to
> navigate the status menus, you must use VO navigation. I don't mind this,
> actually it's more consistent this way since before, the arrow keys only
> navigated built in items like wifi or the battery, third party items such
> as dropbox always have required VO navigation to access them.
> > I can confirm that on the 2010 macbook, the same issue I had with my
> 2010 mac mini does happen, when using Alex, speech disappears, sometimes
> for a few seconds, sometimes completely, again, switching to a Nuance voice
> resolved it.
> > I actually got a Christmas present for myself, a new mac mini, the issue
> does not happen on the newer hardware. I am using a fit headless adapter
> connected to the HDMI port, out of curiosity, I decided to disconnect it
> and see if voiceover was as sluggish as it used to be, surprisingly, I
> didn't notice much difference. I didn't run it this way for a long time,
> but I wonder if Apple has finally fixed this issue for voiceover users. If
> not, the fit headless adapter is definitely a good solution.
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >
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Re: Importing cd's into itunes.

[Kevin Chao]

What's "CD"?

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 3:31 PM Anders Holmberg 
wrote:

> Hi!
> In the older versions of Itunes there was an import cd button.
> Now it seems gone.
> But i guess there must be a way of importing any cd into Itunes.
> But how?
> Thanks.
> /A
>
> --
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Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover

[Kevin Chao]

r really been a fan of Sony but the new Sony Android tvs  I’m
> realy changing my mind,
>
>
>
> Playing around with the Sony 8500 TV today
>
> Talkback allowed us to work through menus and channels / input sources as
> well as the multiple menu levels with speech enabled Sony and Google have
> in these tv’s given us the sightless more of an ability to control the tv
> without sighted assistance.
>
>
>
> As for google docks and chrome vox,
>
>
>
>   This is surely just a start for Google and with time they will make the
> g suite usable with voiceover or even jaws / widnow eyes.
>
>
>
> Google are doing some good thigns,
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mary Otten
> *Sent:* Thursday, 29 December 2016 7:11 PM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover
>
>
>
> There is no cost. And I can't talk about how good it is or isn't. Frankly,
> I resented chrome box from the beginning. Because I thought the Google
> should play along with the screen readers and not expect people to learn a
> specific Screenwitter just so they can access their stuff. I mean after
> all, we have lots of standards. Why did google have to do something weird
> and different? HTML is HTML. But not if your Google. So I have a bias
> against chrome box. But I can't speak to how good it is or is not. I think
> Google should've played with the standards that existed already in HTML and
> not expected blind people to learn a whole different system just because
> they can..
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Dec 28, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> So how good is chrome vox?
>
>
>
> And is there a cost to get access to it?
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Kevin Chao
> *Sent:* Thursday, 29 December 2016 7:22 AM
> *To:* MacVisionaries 
> *Subject:* Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover
>
>
>
> I use and recommend ChromeVox on mac:
>
>
> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromevox/kgejglhpjiefppelpmljglcjbhoiplfn
>
> It provides a lot better experience with G Suite.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 5:59 AM Kat DeNicola 
> wrote:
>
> Hi. Haven't had time to do a topic search for this, so maybe it's already
> been addressed, but I'm having no luck using the help information from
> google on using docs with voiceover on the mac. I can't even find the edit
> field for the body of the document, just the field for giving it a title.
> Navigating to and activating a menu, or using the VO passthrough key and
> then the shortcut to activate a specific menu, yields inconsistent results.
> I made sure quicknav was off and that screen reader mode was enabled. What
> am I missing? Or is it actually just a mess anyway?
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
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> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
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>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@google

Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover

[Kevin Chao]

Yes.  First, make sure you go into settings and check the box to enable
keyboard shortcuts, this will save you much grief later.  There's a few
ways to get a list of keyboard shortcuts as well, these may prove very
useful.  Pressing the question mark, '?' should pull up the list.  Also, to
save you some time, the complete list can be found here:
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 10:01 AM Kevin Chao  wrote:

> If you haven't done so yet, please have a look at the keyboard shortcuts
> for the application in question, for example, Gmail. It is possible to use
> J&K to navigate to Next and previous thread and use an NP within a
> conversation to navigate to Next and previous message
>
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 9:47 AM Matthew Dyer 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> I had a play with chrome vox on my mac here and it works well here.  I
> tested it with gmail and it works ok.  I wish there was a way to arrow
> the the list of message rather than pressing chromevox n then f for next
> form field to jump to each message checkbox.  other than that it works
> and I have chrome set as my default web browser.
>
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
>
> On 12/29/2016 10:49 AM, Chris G wrote:
> > Hi,
> > For what it is worth, Docs works fine with JAWS 17/18, Window-eyes 9.5
> > and NVDA (latest version).
> >
> > When I was playing with docs on the mac, I couldn't get VoiceOver to
> > work at all.  Arrowing through the document said "beginning of text"
> > or "end of text."  Sometimes it spoke each character twice. It was
> > unusable.
> >
> > I tried VoiceOver in Chrome with the same results.  Finally had to use
> > ChromeVox in Chrome to work with Docs on the mac.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris Grabowski
> > Mystic Access
> > Where the magic is in learning.
> > http://www.MysticAccess.com
> >
> > Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts
> > at:
> > http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
> >
> > Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news,
> > podcast updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
> >
> > manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
> >
> >  Contact:
> >
> > Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
> >
> > Twitter: MysticAccess
> > Facebook: mysticaccessempower
> >
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: Simon Fogarty
> > Sent: Thursday, Dec 29, 2016 1:17 AM EST
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover
> >
> > Hi Mary,
> >
> >
> >
> > I can’t say I’mm really a fan boy of Google for most of their products,
> >
> >
> >
> > However as I’m some what looking for a new tv currently I’m starting to
> > change my mind.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’ve never really been a fan of Sony but the new Sony Android tvs I’m
> > realy changing my mind,
> >
> >
> >
> > Playing around with the Sony 8500 TV today
> >
> > Talkback allowed us to work through menus and channels / input sources
> > as well as the multiple menu levels with speech enabled Sony and Google
> > have in these tv’s given us the sightless more of an ability to control
> > the tv without sighted assistance.
> >
> >
> >
> > As for google docks and chrome vox,
> >
> >
> >
> >   This is surely just a start for Google and with time they will make
> > the g suite usable with voiceover or even jaws / widnow eyes.
> >
> >
> >
> > Google are doing some good thigns,
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mary Otten
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 29 December 2016 7:11 PM
> > *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover
> >
> >
> >
> > There is no cost. And I can't talk about how good it is or isn't.
> > Frankly, I resented chrome box from the beginning. Because I thought the
> > Google should play along with the screen readers and not expect people
> > to learn a specific Screenwitter just so they can access their stuff. I
> > mean after all, we have lots of standards. Why did google have to do
> > something weird and different? HTML is HTML. But not if your Google. So
> > I have a bias against chrome box. But I can't speak to how good it is or
> > is not. I think Google shou

Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover

[Kevin Chao]

If you haven't done so yet, please have a look at the keyboard shortcuts
for the application in question, for example, Gmail. It is possible to use
J&K to navigate to Next and previous thread and use an NP within a
conversation to navigate to Next and previous message

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 9:47 AM Matthew Dyer 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> I had a play with chrome vox on my mac here and it works well here.  I
> tested it with gmail and it works ok.  I wish there was a way to arrow
> the the list of message rather than pressing chromevox n then f for next
> form field to jump to each message checkbox.  other than that it works
> and I have chrome set as my default web browser.
>
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
>
> On 12/29/2016 10:49 AM, Chris G wrote:
> > Hi,
> > For what it is worth, Docs works fine with JAWS 17/18, Window-eyes 9.5
> > and NVDA (latest version).
> >
> > When I was playing with docs on the mac, I couldn't get VoiceOver to
> > work at all.  Arrowing through the document said "beginning of text"
> > or "end of text."  Sometimes it spoke each character twice. It was
> > unusable.
> >
> > I tried VoiceOver in Chrome with the same results.  Finally had to use
> > ChromeVox in Chrome to work with Docs on the mac.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris Grabowski
> > Mystic Access
> > Where the magic is in learning.
> > http://www.MysticAccess.com
> >
> > Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts
> > at:
> > http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
> >
> > Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news,
> > podcast updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
> >
> > manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
> >
> >  Contact:
> >
> > Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
> >
> > Twitter: MysticAccess
> > Facebook: mysticaccessempower
> >
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: Simon Fogarty
> > Sent: Thursday, Dec 29, 2016 1:17 AM EST
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover
> >
> > Hi Mary,
> >
> >
> >
> > I can’t say I’mm really a fan boy of Google for most of their products,
> >
> >
> >
> > However as I’m some what looking for a new tv currently I’m starting to
> > change my mind.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’ve never really been a fan of Sony but the new Sony Android tvs I’m
> > realy changing my mind,
> >
> >
> >
> > Playing around with the Sony 8500 TV today
> >
> > Talkback allowed us to work through menus and channels / input sources
> > as well as the multiple menu levels with speech enabled Sony and Google
> > have in these tv’s given us the sightless more of an ability to control
> > the tv without sighted assistance.
> >
> >
> >
> > As for google docks and chrome vox,
> >
> >
> >
> >   This is surely just a start for Google and with time they will make
> > the g suite usable with voiceover or even jaws / widnow eyes.
> >
> >
> >
> > Google are doing some good thigns,
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mary Otten
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 29 December 2016 7:11 PM
> > *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover
> >
> >
> >
> > There is no cost. And I can't talk about how good it is or isn't.
> > Frankly, I resented chrome box from the beginning. Because I thought the
> > Google should play along with the screen readers and not expect people
> > to learn a specific Screenwitter just so they can access their stuff. I
> > mean after all, we have lots of standards. Why did google have to do
> > something weird and different? HTML is HTML. But not if your Google. So
> > I have a bias against chrome box. But I can't speak to how good it is or
> > is not. I think Google should've played with the standards that existed
> > already in HTML and not expected blind people to learn a whole different
> > system just because they can..
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Dec 28, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Simon Fogarty  > <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
> >
> > So how good is chrome vox?
> >
> >
> >
> > And is there a cost to get access to it?
> >
> >
> >
> > 

Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover

[Kevin Chao]

https://support.google.com/docs/answer/1632201?hl=en

On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 1:29 PM Matthew Dyer 
wrote:

> Is there a set of command keys someware to work with chromevox.  I would
> like to take a good luck at this.
>
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
>
> On 12/28/2016 01:22 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
>
> I use and recommend ChromeVox on mac:
>
> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromevox/kgejglhpjiefppelpmljglcjbhoiplfn
> It provides a lot better experience with G Suite.
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 5:59 AM Kat DeNicola 
> wrote:
>
> Hi. Haven't had time to do a topic search for this, so maybe it's already
> been addressed, but I'm having no luck using the help information from
> google on using docs with voiceover on the mac. I can't even find the edit
> field for the body of the document, just the field for giving it a title.
> Navigating to and activating a menu, or using the VO passthrough key and
> then the shortcut to activate a specific menu, yields inconsistent results.
> I made sure quicknav was off and that screen reader mode was enabled. What
> am I missing? Or is it actually just a mess anyway?
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Re: bluetooth headphone strangeness

[Kevin Chao]

Hi Scott,

Do you know how I can update firmware on LG HBS-1100?

I tried Googling, but cannot find a utility, release notes, or if this is
even possible.

Hoping you're able to help :)

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 4:12 PM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> HI Ray, so most modern headsets have a firmware component and a settings
> component.  You install one form of updater or another, plantronics uses
> the headset updater, the jawbone uses the jawbone update tool and so
> forth.  It’s very likely your manufacturer has a set of tools or both
> updating your headset and configuring it.  Firmware updates are important,
> just like operating system updates you get bug fixes and added features.
> You will want to google your headset name and model and something like
> firmware or settings.  That should help you activate and disable the
> features you want. Let me know if you have any further questions.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Dec 26, 2016, at 5:11 PM, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
>
> Configuration for headset?  Where would I find that?  I assume that to get
> to it, I’d have to have it connected?
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind
> built-in
>
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon
> Wireless iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>
> On Dec 26, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> Hey Ray, about the call quality issue, I have some ideas that may help you.
>
> I’m not sure the carrier you use, if you use T-Mobile you’re set for this
> out of the box, if you use Verizon you need to activate advanced calling
> features on your phone, you can do that through the web portal or by
> calling customer service.  It’s a free feature.  If you use AT&T same deal,
> Sprint is hit or miss.
> On your iPhone select settings, cellular, insure cellular data is enabled
> and under the cellular options make sure that both voice and data are
> enabled for LTE.  If all these things are set you should get a call that
> sounds much more like FaceTime or Skype if you call someone who supports
> the high bandwidth calling.  Also, if you have a configuration too for your
> new headset insure that wide band calling is enabled.  Even with out wide
> band calling enabling this tends to make the audio a little less crunchy.
>
> Good luck
> Scott
>
> On Dec 26, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
>
> Yo Dave, thanks but I already knew that.  I think perhaps you
> missunderstood me due to the fact that I failed to mention that I did in
> fact bring up the mini player window.  Inside the mini player window, I
> double tapped and held down the next track button.  Under ordinary
> circumstances, as you properly indicated, skimming forward and backwards
> through a track does in fact work:  however, with the bluetooth headphones
> I have connected, this does not work.
>
>
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind
> built-in
>
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon
> Wireless iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>
> On Dec 26, 2016, at 2:04 PM, David Chittenden 
> wrote:
>
> When in iOS, Apple Music now brings up the mini player. Double-tap on the
> expand mini player button. When in the full player screen, previous and
> skip will scan forward and back through the track with double-tap and hold.
> When the button is then released, the scan stops. Note: the scan starts
> after the hold has lasted for about a second.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936 <+61%20488%20988%20936>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 26/12/2016, at 12:37, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
>
> Okay,
>
> Yesterday, I was gifted a pair of bluetooth headphones, (Philips
> SHB5500).  Very nice sound except when on the phone, the sound tends to
> suffer quite a bit.  I guess Philips did that on purpose to help spare the
> battery.  Anyhow, that’s not my question.  My questions are these.
>
> 1.  When listening to a track on the Apple Music app, I noticed that it is
> not possible to skimm through a track like you do on CD player.  Double
> tapping and holding the next button does not perform its usual function.
> Any way around this?
>
> 2.  Also, while there is no audio skipping on those headphones when
> connected to my iPhone7+, there is audio skipping when connected to my
> Mac.  Any reason for this and anything I can do about it?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind
> built-in
>
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon
> Wireless iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>
>
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Re: Using Google docs, etc., on mac with voiceover

[Kevin Chao]

I use and recommend ChromeVox on mac:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromevox/kgejglhpjiefppelpmljglcjbhoiplfn
It provides a lot better experience with G Suite.

On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 5:59 AM Kat DeNicola  wrote:

> Hi. Haven't had time to do a topic search for this, so maybe it's already
> been addressed, but I'm having no luck using the help information from
> google on using docs with voiceover on the mac. I can't even find the edit
> field for the body of the document, just the field for giving it a title.
> Navigating to and activating a menu, or using the VO passthrough key and
> then the shortcut to activate a specific menu, yields inconsistent results.
> I made sure quicknav was off and that screen reader mode was enabled. What
> am I missing? Or is it actually just a mess anyway?
>
> --
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Re: Does anybody use Screenflow here?

[Kevin Chao]

Not with QuickTime
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 1:43 PM Joshua Tubbs  wrote:

> Can you record both your Microphone, VOiceOver and the iOS audio?
>
> On Dec 26, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> I use ScreenFlow to record Mac system. I've tried it with iOS, but it
> doesn't pass-through system audio, so I cannot hear VoiceOver. Instead, I
> use QuickTime for iOS.
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 7:45 AM Joshua Tubbs  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I was just wondering, does anyone use Screenflow here? The reason I ask
> is, I downloaded it to give it a test run, and I’ve got one end of the
> lightning cable plugged into one of my USB ports and the other end into the
> phone, and my iOS device is not being detected. How do I “plug the iOS
> device into the computer”? I figured I was doing it the correct way…
>
>
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-

Re: Does anybody use Screenflow here?

[Kevin Chao]

I use ScreenFlow to record Mac system. I've tried it with iOS, but it
doesn't pass-through system audio, so I cannot hear VoiceOver. Instead, I
use QuickTime for iOS.

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 7:45 AM Joshua Tubbs  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I was just wondering, does anyone use Screenflow here? The reason I ask
> is, I downloaded it to give it a test run, and I’ve got one end of the
> lightning cable plugged into one of my USB ports and the other end into the
> phone, and my iOS device is not being detected. How do I “plug the iOS
> device into the computer”? I figured I was doing it the correct way…
>
>
> --
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>
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> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
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Re: Apples new Airpods,artical

[Kevin Chao]

Given this is a Mac list, the magical-features of AirPods w1-chip
unfortunately don't work...
1. W1 with iOS 10 will remember last device  and auto connect, but
macOS Sierra requires manually re-connecting via Bluetooth menu/prefs;
2. The extended range of 300' is iOS 10-only, as it drops at 30' with
macOS Sierra;
3. Unfortunately, it doesn't support multi-point, so it's not possible to
seemlessly switch between Mac and iOS when using W1-powered AirPods or
Beats.

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 1:57 AM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Hi List,
>
>
>
> Thought this might be of interest to some.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/87848904/apples-airpods-are-alternately-awesome-and-annoying
> Apple's AirPods are alternately awesome and annoying
>
> Apple is pitching its new AirPod wireless headphones as "effortless" and
> "magical".
>
> For my part, I've found them equal parts impressive and irritating. I
> loved how easy they were to connect to my phone and being wire-free is
> liberating. But I missed having buttons to pause my music or adjust the
> volume. And at times, I found them just plain glitchy.
>
> AirPods, which cost NZ$269, represent Apple's attempt to move the tech
> industry from the old wired headphone jack to a wireless connection. The
> company announced the devices in September at the same time it unveiled the
> iPhone 7, which not so coincidentally lacks a headphone jack.
>
>
>
> One of the best things about the AirPods is the simple fact that they are
> wireless.
>
> It was liberating to use the AirPods - no wires, no fuss. And while I was
> somewhat concerned about losing one of them, they fit snugly in my ears.
>
> *READ MORE:*
>
> * * AirPods go on sale after two-month delay
> 
> * Here's how much it will cost to replace each of your wireless Apple
> headphones
> *
>
> Another great thing about the AirPods is how easy they are to connect to
> your phone and other devices - at least if they are all made by Apple. The
> AirPods, which look like a wire-free version of the EarPod headphones Apple
> has for years shipped with its iPhones, come with a matchbook-sized,
> flip-top charging case.
>
> When you open the top of the case, an image of the AirPods appears in an
> alert on a nearby iPhone. You can connect the headphones to your phone by
> simply tapping on the alert. You don't have to go into your settings. You
> don't go through the typically painful Bluetooth pairing process. Instead,
> it's quick and easy.
>
> Apple earns huge bonus points in my book for creating a new and better way
> to connect than the standard Bluetooth process.
>
> Apple AirPods cost $269 in New Zealand.
>
> But AirPods are clever devices in other ways too. Apple has designed them
> to recognise when they are in your ears, using both optical and
> motion-detecting sensors. Put them in, and they will automatically connect
> to your phone. Take them out, and they'll disconnect. If you are listening
> to music through them, you can pause it by taking an AirPod out of your
> ear. When you put it back in, the music will resume.
>
> The AirPods don't have any physical buttons. But if you do two quick taps
> on them, you can activate Siri, Apple's intelligent assistant, on your
> phone. You can ask Siri to turn up the volume or to place a call. You can
> also answer a call or hang up by double tapping.
>
> In general, these features worked pretty well for me.
>
> One of the best things about the AirPods is the simple fact that they are
> wireless.
>
> One of the big concerns with wireless headphones is how long their
> batteries will last, something you don't have to worry about with wired
> ones, which are typically powered by the headphone port. Apple says the
> AirPods should provide five hours of "listening" time on a single charge. I
> haven't systematically tested that claim, but they seemed to offer fairly
> decent life. I listened to podcasts and music for close to an hour and a
> half and made and received numerous calls over the course of a day all on a
> single charge.
>
> I found the sound on the AirPods to be OK, not noticeably different from
> what I get through my wired EarPods, but not as good as what you might hear
> through high-end headphones.
>
> And the AirPods are definitely better suited for Apple devices than they
> are for non-Apple ones but you can connect them to a Windows computer or
> Android phones via Bluetooth.
>
> So, I'm of a mixed mind about the AirPods. In many ways, they're very cool
> and smart. But they could use a bit more polish.
>
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please con

Re: Nest Products

[Kevin Chao]

Installation and setup of Nest isn't ccessible, so ask sighted-installer to
provide 7-digit entry key. Honeywell has a similar issue, where getting the
thermostat onto the network and setup requires sighted help. From that
point forward, it'll be possible to control and use Nest via mobile apps
with screen readers or smart-speakers (Google Home or Amazon Echo). Nest
doesn't support Homekit, so it won't work with the iOS Home app or Siri.
Most of the mobile apps is screen reader accessible, including: adding
devices, adding members, changing mode, changing temperature.
Unfortunately, the scheduling/routine isn't accessible, which is a common
issue across the home control/automation spaces in regards to
accessibility. The smart-speakers are both able to increase/decrease
temperature of Nest/HoneyWell, but this is where control for AMazon Echo
stops, and Google Home continues. Google Home with Nest (using only your
voice) is able to change modes (heat, cool, heat+cool, and off), ask what
the thermostat is set to, what the temperature reading is at the
thermostat, and the humidity percentage. It's accessible and affordable!

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 11:52 AM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> The Echo is compatible with the nest.  All of these devices are starting
> to standardize and interoperate with each other.  My understanding is that
> the echo from Amazon doesn’t do some things like grouping or auto
> configuration of large installations well but using it with individual
> devices is quite straight forward.I’m pretty excited to jump in to this
> area.  Home automation is something I’ve always been interested in but was
> never really accessible or affordable.
>
> > On Dec 21, 2016, at 2:39 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> >
> > I just have the thermostat.  And we don't have an echo, so I can't speak
> to that.
> >> On Dec 21, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli <
> sarai.bucciare...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> What products do you have Donna? Can I set the temp with the Echo?
> >>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 6:03 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We have the Nest products in our house. Whoever installs them should
> do the initial set up. Their website is a nightmare, the one thing that I
> have found very difficult to do is to configure the temperature schedule.
> However, there iPhone app is great, so day today usage is very easy.
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Donna
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Dec 20, 2016, at 10:45 PM, Scott Granados <
> scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  I have heard the nest can be difficult to configure as a blind user
> but works well once set up.  My understanding is the Honeywell products are
> more accessible out of the box.  Kevin on list here has done a lot of good
> research I think in this area and posted a bit on the eyes-free list, maybe
> he can detail more here.
> 
> > On Dec 20, 2016, at 9:35 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli <
> sarai.bucciare...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi guys:
> > Has anyone used the Nest 3rd gen thermostat, the security camera, or
> the smoke alarm? I’m looking for something to work my Echo, andmy iphone.
> > Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
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> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
>  The archives for this list can be searche

Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Kevin Chao]

1. W1-chip with iOS 10 sounds like a beta preview of what Bluetooth 5 will
offer too all BT-compat devices
2. Narrator On later versions of Windows 10 has improved greatly, is
robust, and customizable. It's excellent that the big 4 Tech leads have
native screen reader on mainstream oS: Google ChromeVox Next on Chrome OS,
Apple Mac VoiceOver, Microsoft Narrator on Win10+, Amazon Voice View on
Fire OS.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 5:58 AM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> Remember that the NFB forced Microsoft to stop development for it’s own
> screen reader for years.  That being said, yes, serious development has
> gone back in to narrator and accessibility by Microsoft in general.  They
> have been hiring a lot of blind engineers specifically to work on improving
> the product from our perspective.  I’ve even heard of fully talking
> installs being possible now using narrator.
>
> > On Dec 19, 2016, at 8:11 AM, Jessica Moss 
> wrote:
> >
> > Has narrator actually improved sense it first came out?  When I first
> started doing it, it was crap, and as one of our computer teachers at the
> rehab center for the blind, as they called it back in the day in Daytona
> Beach said “it’s something microsoft developed to cover their hiny.”
> >> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:49 PM, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> And then of course there is Narrator!
> >>
> >> A built in screan reader, or is that voice from my windows computer.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
> >> Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 6:28 AM
> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
> >>
> >> The nfb has been on the new paradigm bandwagon ever since their
> ill-fated review of VoiceOver in iOS many years ago. In fact, the last two
> conventions have featured almost nothing about old Paradigm screen readers.
> >> They are still clinging to some old products like humanware Hardware.
> >> Basically though, built-in screen readers are not only here to stay,
> but in more ways they are undeniably more effective than old bolt on
> Technologies.
> >> Any attempt to suppress such a Viewpoint at this juncture would be so
> counterproductive that it could gut an organization like the NFB.  You may
> believe this or you may not, but in fact, reputation is everything to the
> NFB.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Erik
> >>
> >> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> >> http://www.aqua-mail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On December 16, 2016 11:47:16 AM Scott Granados <
> scott.grana...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Wow, the NFB wrote something positive about built in screen readers?
> >>> Did someone see 4 horsemen around here somewhere?
> >>>
>  On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:58 AM, David Chittenden 
> wrote:
> 
>  Yes, Android development is interesting.
> 
>  Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and
> VoiceOver.
>  The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The
>  author also comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
> 
>  The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate
>  the angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the
>  author usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not
>  using these menus is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It
>  would make things more difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS
> functionality.
> 
>  Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to
>  do so with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the
> advanced functionality.
> 
>  David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>  Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>  Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >
> > I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of
> > phones, the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical
> change.
> >
> > Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance
> > improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty
> > good.  I hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing
> better?
> > Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing
> > interesting things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting
> > but pretty specialized for we engineering and systems folks.  Who
> > has a better option right now?  For all the griping we have on list
> > try using an Android device and get back to me.:). People are
> > catching up to Apple so I hope there is a jump ahead but they still
> aren’t there.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS
> >>
> >> The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were work

Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Kevin Chao]

Tank is a good analogy for OR20



On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 6:50 PM Scott Granados 
wrote:

+1, from what I under stand it’s built like a tank in comparison to most
braille displays.  Especially for the low cost.

On Dec 18, 2016, at 4:32 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:

The Orbit Reader 20 is durable, ruggid, and a fraction the cost of other
20cell Braille displays. Hope others will follow in APH's lead. I'd argue
this is the only Braille display that will be able to survive third-world
developing nations.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 11:33 AM Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Regarding the Orbit Braille display, what happens if it needs cleaning?
You all know that those who use these displays, if a cell goes bad it will
cost £100 to replace a cell.  I don't know what that is in dollars.  Will
the display cost a lot more to fix if so, then it's not worth getting a
braille displayif it will cost just as much to maintain.

Kawal.
> On 17 Dec 2016, at 03:05, David Chittenden  wrote:
>
> Yes, the Orbit Braille Display. It uses mechanical actuaters which are
moved into place with a spinning wheel that moves across the line. APH is
one of the organisations involved with the project.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 17/12/2016, at 13:51, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>
>> There’s actually a lot of work going on with lower cost braille.
There’s a sub $500 braille display in the works from what I hear as well.
>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 5:24 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe, but if you don't happen to have a few thousand dollars lying
around or a rehab agency who can provide those dollars, it might provide an
option to have access to hard copy braille.  I hear what you're saying and
I've seen braille produced that way.  It can be strange to read.  But at
least it's another option.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:07 PM, David Chittenden 
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A few thoughts:
>>>> 90 of the blind people were able to read the braille. This means, the
braille was not as normally perceived.
>>>> It requires a second heat source to activate the expansion. So, it
includes a heat-reactive component which swells. The swelling occurs in all
directions, not just vertical. So, the braille will most likely feel like
half-dome rounded dots. The printer probably sprays more ink in the center
of each dot to get increased hight, but as the ink powder dries from the
application of the lazer, there will be some spillage. I evaluated some 3d
printed tactile maps, and the 3d printed braille which was on the vertical
surfaces did not work very well because of the slight spillage.
>>>> I suspect the dots will not be as tall, or as sharp, as blind people
are used to. Therefore, as currently explained, my guess is the device will
work better as a tactile graphics printer rather than as a braille printer.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On 17/12/2016, at 06:17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, all.  Glad people found it useful.  If it actually works, it
sure beats spending a few grand on a braille embosser.  And as for Duxbury,
they already have the capacity to print simulated braille, so I see no
reason why this would impact them much.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is
aware of this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not
OT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>>>>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>>>>>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>>>>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
>>>>>>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>>>
>>

Re: AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome

[Kevin Chao]

PowerBetas3 with W1-chip have low-latency, low-quality (sound/comfort), and
high battery-life. It also doesn't have multi-point, so it cannot easily
switch between Apple devices (i.e. it can only connect to one device at a
time).
Note: AirPods and Solo are the same.

On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 12:37 AM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> So hang on,
>
> Beets have released a set of headphones with the W1 chip in them?
>
>
>
> Crazy that apple would allow beets to release their headphones before
> apple release their ear ods first,
>
>
>
> I know they are the same company but still I would have thought apple
> would be releasing theirs first.
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Kevin Chao
> *Sent:* Monday, 3 October 2016 7:51 AM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded
> awesome
>
>
>
> W1 Chip still has lag :(
>
> Based on below excerpt, latency in w1 chip is less than most Bluetooth,
> but latency /= 0 ms | /= Wired connection.
>
> "... a RemoteTalk headphone cable with 3.5mm headphone jacks ...  This,
> effectively, allows you to turn your Beats Solo3 Wireless Headphones into a
> pair of Beats Solo3 Wired Headphones. This is great for those times ... for
> other occasions, such as low latency podcast monitoring (latency is
> significantly less than most Bluetooth headphones, yet it’s still
> discernible.)"
>
>
> https://9to5mac.com/2016/09/15/hands-on-beats-solo3-wireless-the-first-available-headphones-featuring-apples-new-w1-chip-video/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 7:19 AM Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> I think it all depends on when things get sourced, parts are finished and
> assembly takes place.  Apple likes to build up a big supply before they let
> something go.  You have a very good point I just figure something in the
> supply chain held something up and they didn’t want to stall on the phone.
>
>
>
> Pure speculation of course.
>
>
>
> On Sep 11, 2016, at 11:14 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
>
>
> I wonder why they're not released until end of October. It would have been
> great to pre-order AirPods along the iPhone 7 and Watch Series 2.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 8:10 PM David Chittenden 
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> The new Apple Air Pods, using Apple's new chip, are Bluetooth with an
> additional technology which, according to Apple, removes all delay from the
> audio. So, there should not be any delay in VoiceOver.
>
>
>
> The Air Pods will automatically switch between mono and stereo depending
> on whether they are in one ear or both ears. They can be paired with
> non-Apple bluetooth devices. They are paired to devices whilst in the
> charging case. Apparently, opening the case activates the paring system if
> they are not in range of a device that they are already paired with.
>
>
>
> In the Apple ecosystem, pairing with one device will automatically pair
> with all devices using the sane iCloud account.
>
>
>
> If they stay in my ears, and are comfortable, I am definitely getting a
> pair.
>
>
>
> Oh, and if one is lost, apparently Apple will sell single replacement
> units, though there is no mention of price yet.
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 12 Sep 2016, at 13:11, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> Do the AirPods address the inherit lag that is on *all* bluetooth audio
> devices, which is pronounced when using *any* screen reader?
>
> i.e. Hope the latency will be equivalent between lightning EarPods and
> wireless AirPods when using VoiceOver.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 2:32 PM Robin  wrote:
>
> ThisChip W1Chip could Solely BelongTo Apple & Would ONLY Operate
> AppleDevices ... Apple's BlueTooth Channel
> At 06:00 AM 9/9/2016, you wrote:
>
> I don’t see how this works though.
>
> The iPhone has a specific W1 chip included.  I don’t know if bluetooth
> is the underlying wireless protocol but none of the other devices have this
> W1 chip.  So how will my EarPods talk to my iPad air2 for example with no
> W1 processor?  Must be some sort of bluetooth support under the hood for
> compatibility across the product line like that.  It wasn’t mentioned
> though so wondering how it works.  I was under the impression that the
> wireless connection itself was over a proprietary protocol and not
> bluetooth.  Would love to be wrong on that.
>
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2016, at 3:58 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> hang On,
> so if I p

Re: VoiceOver losing speech on Macbook

[Kevin Chao]

Alex works fine for me on Sierra (Mac 10.12.2) with: MacBook Pro (Retina,
13-inch, Late 2013)

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 5:39 AM Chris G  wrote:

> Hi Shawn,
> Thanks for that.  You are correct, it is a mid 2010 laptop.
> It runs circles around my mac mini mid 2009 model, so I'm extremely
> happy with it.
>
>
>
> Chris Grabowski
> Mystic Access
> Where the magic is in learning.
> http://www.MysticAccess.com
>
> Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts at:
> http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
>
> Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news,
> podcast updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
>
> manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
>
>   Contact:
>
> Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
>
> Twitter: MysticAccess
> Facebook: mysticaccessempower
>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Saturday, Dec 17, 2016 10:40 PM EST
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
> Subject: VoiceOver losing speech on Macbook
>
> Hey Chris, if you went to the Apple Menu and About This Mac, you could
> find out what year it's from. I kinda find that odd that a 2012 machine
> would have the Alex issue because it's only 4 years old but who knows. I
> know that 2010 models have this which is why I'm avoiding Alex like the
> plague until Apple fixes him. And I assume that you're running Sierra.2
> so my question about Alex crashing older Macs like mine has been
> answered, and sadly it still is.
>
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>
> On Dec 17, 2016, at 6:33 AM, Chris G  wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I have a Macbook pro 13 inch with 16gb ram and a TB SSHD.  This is the
> one that has the DVD drive on the right side.
>
> I have the latest mac os installed on it.
>
>  From time to time using Alex the speech will just die.  I can still
> move around the screen and hear the VO sound effects.  If I toggle VO
> with command F5 it doesn't come back.  I must press and hold power to
> get the computer up and running again.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions, maybe if I were to use another voice
> other than Alex?
>
> ChrisI could be in the middle of navigating around and poof, no speech.
> It is random.
>
>
> --
> Chris Grabowski
> Mystic Access
> Where the magic is in learning.
> http://www.MysticAccess.com
>
> Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts at:
> http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
>
> Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news,
> podcast updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
>
> manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
>
> Contact:
>
> Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
>
> Twitter: MysticAccess
> Facebook: mysticaccessempower
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
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>
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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Kevin Chao]

The Orbit Reader 20 is durable, ruggid, and a fraction the cost of other
20cell Braille displays. Hope others will follow in APH's lead. I'd argue
this is the only Braille display that will be able to survive third-world
developing nations.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 11:33 AM Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

> Regarding the Orbit Braille display, what happens if it needs cleaning?
> You all know that those who use these displays, if a cell goes bad it will
> cost £100 to replace a cell.  I don't know what that is in dollars.  Will
> the display cost a lot more to fix if so, then it's not worth getting a
> braille displayif it will cost just as much to maintain.
>
> Kawal.
> > On 17 Dec 2016, at 03:05, David Chittenden 
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, the Orbit Braille Display. It uses mechanical actuaters which are
> moved into place with a spinning wheel that moves across the line. APH is
> one of the organisations involved with the project.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On 17/12/2016, at 13:51, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> There’s actually a lot of work going on with lower cost braille.
> There’s a sub $500 braille display in the works from what I hear as well.
> >>
> >>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 5:24 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Maybe, but if you don't happen to have a few thousand dollars lying
> around or a rehab agency who can provide those dollars, it might provide an
> option to have access to hard copy braille.  I hear what you're saying and
> I've seen braille produced that way.  It can be strange to read.  But at
> least it's another option.
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Donna
>  On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:07 PM, David Chittenden 
> wrote:
> 
>  A few thoughts:
>  90 of the blind people were able to read the braille. This means, the
> braille was not as normally perceived.
>  It requires a second heat source to activate the expansion. So, it
> includes a heat-reactive component which swells. The swelling occurs in all
> directions, not just vertical. So, the braille will most likely feel like
> half-dome rounded dots. The printer probably sprays more ink in the center
> of each dot to get increased hight, but as the ink powder dries from the
> application of the lazer, there will be some spillage. I evaluated some 3d
> printed tactile maps, and the 3d printed braille which was on the vertical
> surfaces did not work very well because of the slight spillage.
>  I suspect the dots will not be as tall, or as sharp, as blind people
> are used to. Therefore, as currently explained, my guess is the device will
> work better as a tactile graphics printer rather than as a braille printer.
> 
>  Kind regards,
> 
>  David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>  Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>  Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 17/12/2016, at 06:17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, all.  Glad people found it useful.  If it actually works, it
> sure beats spending a few grand on a braille embosser.  And as for Duxbury,
> they already have the capacity to print simulated braille, so I see no
> reason why this would impact them much.
> > Cheers,
> > Donna
> >> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:39 AM, E.T. 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is
> aware of this.
> >>
> >> Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not
> OT.
> >>
> >> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> >> "Lord, Help me become the person
> >> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> >> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> >>
> >>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related,
> I
> >>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Donna
> >>>
> >>> --
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Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Kevin Chao]

What does Bluetooth 5 open up?

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 12:20 PM Ricardo Walker 
wrote:

> Wow! I really think iPhones have changed a lot. I just think its hard to
> notice because most of us on here get a new iPhone every year or 2. It’s
> kinda like a child growing up. You know they’re growing, but since you see
> them everyday you wouldn’t really notice. But, leave for 6 months, come
> back and you see the changes. Lets compare the 207 iPhone to the iPhone 7.
> Thinner, lighter, larger screen, no  mechanical home button, retina
> display, LTE, better wifi, better bluetooth, better camera, different
> placement of the power button, different shape volume buttons, etc.
>
> Like has been said, wireless charging would be nice. I’d also like to see
> it using the new Bluetooth 5.0 radio. I think that would really open a lot
> of things up in the not too distant future. An embedded touch ID would also
> be cool. They could then enlarge the display by getting rid of the lower
> bezel, and not have to increase the overall size of the device.
> > On Dec 18, 2016, at 2:27 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> >
> > I am now waiting for the wireless charging and I won't get another phone
> until the 8 comes out so that hopefully the charging is rock solid.
> >
> > Anyway, looking at this question another way as I posed the question,
> what can Apple do to make people buy the phone once the wireless charge has
> been added.  The phones have not changed much even though the hardware
> inside have been improved.  If once the charge has been added, I wonder
> what will happen next.
> >
> > Kawal.
> >> On 17 Dec 2016, at 00:41, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> So there’s all this talk about lack of innovation and looking
> backwards?  What would you want that’s not in place?  You’ve got a computer
> that fits in the palm of your hand, gets 450 megabits down and 100 up all
> over the planet with no wires, and is powerful as a MacBook Pro 13 inch in
> terms of processing power.  That ain’t a bad start.
> >>
> >> I would like to see very good wireless charging.  That’s one thing I
> can think of that I’d like to see.
> >>
> >> On the Mac side I’m not sure I’m pretty happy there.  Oh I know, I’d
> like a built in LTE modem so it can be connected anywhere with out a third
> party hotspot or USB stick.
> >>
> >> What do you think, what is Apple missing since people think they are
> stagnating.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi David,
> >>>
> >>> Yes I have to agree,
> >>>
> >>> Apple do have far superior accessibility features in their devices and
> across their different platforms.
> >>>
> >>> As well as keeping the accessibility features / gestures the same on
> the different devices and os's
> >>>
> >>> Android are doing well but there are so many different versions of the
> android OS that each one has changes to the last
> >>>
> >>> Apple have in my opinion lacked the out of the box innovation  that
> Steve Jobbs had for the company.
> >>>
> >>> The iPhone hasn't really changed since it's release,
> >>> There have been changes but really it's the same device,
> >>>
> >>> Same with the mac book lines, apart from slight changes in hardware
> things haven't really changed a lot
> >>> And the mac OS x changes to me have been more backward than forward
> looking in the passed couple of versions.
> >>>
> >>> But hey I'm only a single user
> >>>
> >>> We will have to wait and see what happens.
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> >>> Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 1:59 AM
> >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
> >>>
> >>> Yes, Android development is interesting.
> >>>
> >>> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and
> VoiceOver. The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The
> author also comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
> >>>
> >>> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate
> the angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the
> author usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using
> these menus is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make
> things more difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.
> >>>
> >>> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to
> do so with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced
> functionality.
> >>>
> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> >>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> 
>  I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of
> phones, the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
> 
>  Then again though, why change something th

Watch Unlock Mac FAILS in 10.12.2

[Kevin Chao]

Auto Unlock via Watch has stopped working for me since this update.
I've unchecked/re-checked "auto unlock" in Security prefs (also restarted
after each toggle).

Wach Unlock Mac worked flawlessly in 10.12.1...

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Re: Redmond pie article on airport replacements

[Kevin Chao]

On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 10:52 AM Mary Otten  wrote:

> I don't own one.
>
I replaced Apple Airport Extreme with Google Wi-Fi


> I only know what I read on forms and in some of the technical press, and
> no, I don't mean Apple fan mags.
> People have complained about lousy connectivity with home automation
> devices
>
I've a variety of home automation devices connected and it's been solid. It
also has on.here page that allows controlling of home automation devices.



> and lack of updates.
>
Updates are very frequent


> Like I said, I don't own one. Also lack of ports
>
With 3-pack, there are 2 ethernets per node, so that is 6 ethernet ports
total

was another complaint for a $200 device.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 27, 2016, at 8:45 AM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> OnHub has been updated constantly since release last year and works with
> Google Wi-Fi. In addition to the super Wi-Fi, mesh network, family time,
> on.here: it has excellent mobile apps with great accessibility. It's
> ability to prioritize traffic, see usage stats over *any* time, and details
> for *any* device. It has great third-party integration as well! e.g. IFTTT,
> Philips Hue, etc.
>
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 7:19 PM Mary Otten  wrote:
>
> OK, there are some choices in there, although I personally would not do
> the Google thing, given that they came out with something last year, and
> never came through with the updates that were supposed to happen. At least
> I would wait on it. Anyway, my main interest has to do with your play. I
> wouldn't mind getting a newer router then my old extreme, because there are
> routers and we all have devices that support better protocols. But I still
> use airplay heavily. And I'm not ready to give up several thousand dollars
> worth of stereo equipment that I put to good use every day.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 26, 2016, at 6:40 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >
> > Redmond pie just posted an article discussing router replacements for
> the Airport.  They suggest a slightly less expensive Netgear from the same
> model range I mentioned and a few other interesting mesh options including
> one from Amplifi and one from Google.  Read more here.
> >
> >
> http://www.redmondpie.com/the-best-apple-airport-alternative-wifi-routers/
> >
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Re: Redmond pie article on airport replacements

[Kevin Chao]

OnHub has been updated constantly since release last year and works with
Google Wi-Fi. In addition to the super Wi-Fi, mesh network, family time,
on.here: it has excellent mobile apps with great accessibility. It's
ability to prioritize traffic, see usage stats over *any* time, and details
for *any* device. It has great third-party integration as well! e.g. IFTTT,
Philips Hue, etc.

On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 7:19 PM Mary Otten  wrote:

> OK, there are some choices in there, although I personally would not do
> the Google thing, given that they came out with something last year, and
> never came through with the updates that were supposed to happen. At least
> I would wait on it. Anyway, my main interest has to do with your play. I
> wouldn't mind getting a newer router then my old extreme, because there are
> routers and we all have devices that support better protocols. But I still
> use airplay heavily. And I'm not ready to give up several thousand dollars
> worth of stereo equipment that I put to good use every day.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 26, 2016, at 6:40 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >
> > Redmond pie just posted an article discussing router replacements for
> the Airport.  They suggest a slightly less expensive Netgear from the same
> model range I mentioned and a few other interesting mesh options including
> one from Amplifi and one from Google.  Read more here.
> >
> >
> http://www.redmondpie.com/the-best-apple-airport-alternative-wifi-routers/
> >
> > --
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Re: Easy iPhone wireless charging hack

[Kevin Chao]

Has anyone tried this?
On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 7:13 PM michael babcock 
wrote:

> as it’s not ethical to just send a link to a list without information, let
> me copy and paste the article below for your reference.
> Tired of waiting for Apple to add wireless charging to the iPhone? Here's
> how you can do it yourself, no screwdrivers or soldering irons required.
> Here's how you can add wireless charging to your iPhone, quickly, cheaply,
> and easily, and without risking your warranty.
> Here's what you need:
> • A wireless charging receiver card for your iPhone. A quick search of
> somewhere like Amazon will turn up a number of solutions, such as
> BEZALEL I6 Qi wireless charger receiver patch module
> http://amzn.to/2fS5XPY
> (price at publication is $16.25).
> • A Qi-compatible charger. Any of the Ones listed here will work fine:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/wireless-chargers-for-the-samsung-galaxy-s6-galaxy-s6-edge/
> , but there are many more you can choose from out there.
> • A non-metallic flexible case or cover no thicker than 5mm (only required
> if the receiver coil you've chosen doesn't come with a case). Apple's own
> silicone cases work well (although they are expensive), as do the cheapo
> versions you can pick up from eBay or Amazon.
> Fitting the charging coil is easy. Just pop the wireless charging card
> into your iPhone's connector, fold it over the back, and pop it into a case
> and you're done.
> You do lose the port on your phone (unless you're willing to disconnect
> the card) but if all you use it for is charging, then this won't matter
> much.
> With a compatible in-car charger (such as this one:
> http://amzn.to/2eDFUKC
> ) you can continue to charge your iPhone when on the move.
> In my experience, these wireless charging systems work very well, and are
> far more convenient than having to plug a cable into the handset every
> time. The only time it isn't is when you want to use your iPhone while it's
> charging, then a cable is easier.
>
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2016, at 3:47 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <
> clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd be careful with this. We really don't know who the source of this msg
> was from. All it says is, Easy iPhone, so yeah.
>
> I'd be very very careful.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message - From: "-" 
> To: ; ; <
> blindt...@groups.io>; "blind exchange" 
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:30 PM
> Subject: Easy iPhone wireless charging hack
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/easy-iphone-wireless-charging-hack/#ftag=RSSbaffb68
>
> XB
>
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Re: Trouble Using Braille Display with Sierra

[Kevin Chao]

I've had exactly same experience with Sierra and Braille display. It's
regressed from El Capitan. I'm glad someone else highlighted this, as I was
quite confused and disorientated by what's happeend.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:31 AM Andrew Lamanche  wrote:

> Yes, I have been experiencing problems with Braille displays under sierra
> and have reported them.  So please report yours as well.  Things are not
> good for Braille users under Sierra, so we must continue to apply pressure
> so that it doesn’t slip under the radar.  Reading web pages with my Braille
> display has become impossible.  Even in itunes, in the web area, it’s not
> possible to use my Braille display correctly to read the content.  Often,
> there will be no content of the voiceover cursor showing at all.  So
> Voiceover will read the content but it won’t show at all on the Braille
> display.
>
> Andrew
>
> On 5 Nov 2016, at 06:28, Kat DeNicola  wrote:
>
> Hi, All. I'm trying to use my Braille Sense u2 running firmware 8.5 as a
> braille display through USB with my mac air running Sierra. I had no
> problems when I did this on El Capitan. But now, what shows up on the
> braille display often is not what is in the voiceover focus. For instance,
> voiceover will say I'm on the desktop, and the braille display looks like
> it's showing me what would be displayed in the app chooser. Panning on the
> display also does not move me from line to line, but jumps me all over the
> place, it seems, and the routing keys do not put the voiceover cursor where
> it should. There is also a problem where there is sometimes a mix of
> contracted and uncontracted braille, even on the same line, but I have it
> set for contracted braille. I haven't changed any of my braille settings
> since before I installed Sierra, and I doublechecked them. I think there's
> an 8.6 firmware upgrade for the Braille Sense, but I'm not sure the update
> would help or if it's a Sierra thing. Anyone else had similar experiences?
> I'm not sure if I should call Apple Accessibility or not. I doubt they
> would have any ideas, but I guess at least I could report it as a bug.
>
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Re: Intel's chip design, not Apple's choices, reason behind Thunderbolt 3 & RAM issues in new MacBook Pro

[Kevin Chao]

So, we'll have to wait ~2 years for >= 32GB RAM. Thanks Intel!

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 11:20 AM Mary Otten  wrote:

> In light of some discussion about the new MacBook Pro and the ram a
> limitation, I thought people might find this article interesting. It looks
> like Intel, not Apple, is to blame, if you want to call it that, for some
> of the limitations.
> Mary
> Intel's chip design, not Apple's choices, reason behind Thunderbolt 3 &
> RAM issues in new MacBook Pro
> AppleInsider
>
>  The processors in the new 2016 MacBook Pro line have been identified,
> clarifying why some of the limitations surrounding the machine —like
> limited Thunderbolt 3 bandwidth on some models —exist.
>
>
> After the furor of the initial "Hello Again" event died down, speculation
> began about the new MacBook Pro line, and seeming design choices that Apple
> made, which some believe compromise the machine. While Apple did make some
> choices, many of them were dictated by the limitations that Intel has
> placed on the company while the Kaby Lake processor family develops.
> Skylake in the 13-inch 2016 MacBook Pro
>
> The base-model dual-Thunderbolt 3 2.0 i5 GHz processor has been identified
> as the 6360U processor. The 6360U launched
> 
> in the third quarter of 2015, using Intel's 14nm process as with the rest
> of the processors in the new MacBook pro, and has a maximum turbo frequency
> of 3.1 GHz.
>
> Thermal design power on the chip is 15W, and it, like all the dual-core
> processors across the MacBook Pro line has a maximum of 12 PCI-E channels.
>
> An upgrade option for the 13-inch dual-Thunderbolt machine is the dual
> 2.4 GHz i7 6567U
> 
> processor. It has a peak of 3.6 GHz, and has a thermal design power of 28W.
> 13-inch quad-Thunderbolt models
>
> The 13-inch quad-Thunderbolt 3 has three processor choices —the base model
> has a 2.9 GHz dual i5 6267U processor, with upgrade options for a 3.1 GHz
> dual i5 6287U, or the same 3.3 GHz dual i7 6567U as found in the
> dual-Thunderbolt version.
>
> The i5 6267U has a max speed of 3.3 GHz
> ,
> and has a thermal design power of 28W. An upgrade to the 6287U dual i5
> 
> will give the user a peak speed of 3.5 GHz, with the same 28-watt thermal
> design power as the other upgrade processors.
> 15-inch quad-Thunderbolt
>
> The 15-inch quad-Thunderbolt MacBook Pro also has a choice of three
> processors —the 6700HQ
> 
> 2.6 GHz, 2.7 GHz 6820HQ
> ,
> and 2.9 GHz 6920HQ
> .
> Peak turbo speeds are 3.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, and 3.8 GHz, respectively.
>
> All three of the quad-core processors have a 45-watt thermal design power,
> and 16 PCI-e lanes.
> Implications of Skylake in the MacBook Pro
>
> All three of the quad-core processors available in the new 15-inch MacBook
> Pro have 16 PCI-e lanes, which is what allows for for max Thunderbolt
> bandwidth on the 15-inch model. Related, the 12 lanes on the 13-inch models
> are responsible for the "reduced bandwidth
> "
> on the right-hand side ports on the 13-inch MacBook Pro.
>
> Additionally, the quad-core Kaby Lake processor still having not seen the
> light of day has caused other problems that are being attributed to Apple,
> and not as having been foisted upon the company by Intel. For low power
> consumption, Skylake only supports LPDDR3, which is limited to 16 gigabytes.
>
> LPDDR4 will not be supported in MacBook Pro-bound Kaby Lake quad-core
> processors until possibly the end of 2017, and perhaps later.
>
> macOS isn't the limiting factor, and hasn't been for some time. While
> Apple chose to not implement other technologies to boost the RAM
> capabilities of the MacBook Pro, it chose to not do so, in the interest of
> a thinner machine than previous generations, and longer battery life than
> it would have had had it implemented non-LP RAM workarounds.
>
> Apple's statement that other RAM choices allowing for 32 gigabytes of RAM
> or more would cause decreased battery life is accurate, if not quite
> specific.
>
>
> Original Article:
> http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/31/intels-chip-design-not-apples-choices-reason-behind-thunderbolt-3-ram-issues-in-new-macbook-pro
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the 

Re: MacBook doesn't go to sleep when lid closed in OS Sierra

[Kevin Chao]

Internet sharing is off, but issue persist

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:37 AM Anders Holmberg 
wrote:

> Hi!
> Also go to sharing in system prefs and uncheck the internet sharing
> checkbox.
> That helped me with my mac mini.
> /A
>
> On 31 Oct 2016, at 05:22, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I haven't experienced this exact issue, but have noticed that my MBP takes
> an extra 30 seconds or so to go to sleep.  I close the lid, then can tell
> that stuff is still happening, but it does wind down after about 30
> seconds.  For those of you with Apple Watches and other devices that
> continue speaking with your Mac, or with machines that are Power Nap
> capable, you may wish to go under the Power Adaptor tab of Energy Saver in
> System Prefs, and uncheck the box that reads "Wake for Network Access".
> This may help the issue.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Oct 30, 2016, at 21:22, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> I've observed this (Apple Watch will unlock Mac, BLuetooth headset will
> connect, and Alex will continue talking)and haven't figure out a solution
> other than unplugging charger (end up with dead Mac)
>
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 1:21 PM Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> There’s also a checkbox under energy savings and power that controls sleep
> behavior as in what can or can’t wake up the device.  I haven’t noticed
> this problem but I usually click on the sleep option under the apple before
> closing the lid.
>
> > On Oct 30, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Brandon A. Olivares <
> thepianist2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > My wife is having the same issue. We’ve found it helps if she unplugs
> the laptop before shutting it. She can then plug it back in if she wants
> to, and it still stays sleeping.
> >> On Oct 30, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Yet another difficulty I experience after upgrade to Sierra is that
> neither my old MacBook Air nor my 2014 MacBook pro go to sleep when I close
> the lid.  Once the lid is closed, Voiceover keeps repeating rotor menu
> items.  The only way I can put it to sleep if I want to close the lid is to
> switch of trackpad commander.  This makes me think that there’s something
> wrong here.  If the trackpad is on for Voiceover use, when I close the lid,
> it prevents the mac from sleeping.  Any experiences like this from anyone
> else?
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> --
> >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >>
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Re: MacBook doesn't go to sleep when lid closed in OS Sierra

[Kevin Chao]

I've unchecked/disabled PowerNap and Wake_Wi-Fi. Apple support has never
heard of this issue when I called last week

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:23 PM Tim Kilburn  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I haven't experienced this exact issue, but have noticed that my MBP takes
> an extra 30 seconds or so to go to sleep.  I close the lid, then can tell
> that stuff is still happening, but it does wind down after about 30
> seconds.  For those of you with Apple Watches and other devices that
> continue speaking with your Mac, or with machines that are Power Nap
> capable, you may wish to go under the Power Adaptor tab of Energy Saver in
> System Prefs, and uncheck the box that reads "Wake for Network Access".
> This may help the issue.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Oct 30, 2016, at 21:22, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> I've observed this (Apple Watch will unlock Mac, BLuetooth headset will
> connect, and Alex will continue talking)and haven't figure out a solution
> other than unplugging charger (end up with dead Mac)
>
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 1:21 PM Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> There’s also a checkbox under energy savings and power that controls sleep
> behavior as in what can or can’t wake up the device.  I haven’t noticed
> this problem but I usually click on the sleep option under the apple before
> closing the lid.
>
> > On Oct 30, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Brandon A. Olivares <
> thepianist2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > My wife is having the same issue. We’ve found it helps if she unplugs
> the laptop before shutting it. She can then plug it back in if she wants
> to, and it still stays sleeping.
> >> On Oct 30, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Yet another difficulty I experience after upgrade to Sierra is that
> neither my old MacBook Air nor my 2014 MacBook pro go to sleep when I close
> the lid.  Once the lid is closed, Voiceover keeps repeating rotor menu
> items.  The only way I can put it to sleep if I want to close the lid is to
> switch of trackpad commander.  This makes me think that there’s something
> wrong here.  If the trackpad is on for Voiceover use, when I close the lid,
> it prevents the mac from sleeping.  Any experiences like this from anyone
> else?
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> --
> >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >>
> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>
> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>
> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >> ---
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> >
> > --
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> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
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> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
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> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >
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> > ---
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> > For more opti

Re: MacBook doesn't go to sleep when lid closed in OS Sierra

[Kevin Chao]

I've observed this (Apple Watch will unlock Mac, BLuetooth headset will
connect, and Alex will continue talking)and haven't figure out a solution
other than unplugging charger (end up with dead Mac)

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 1:21 PM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> There’s also a checkbox under energy savings and power that controls sleep
> behavior as in what can or can’t wake up the device.  I haven’t noticed
> this problem but I usually click on the sleep option under the apple before
> closing the lid.
>
> > On Oct 30, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Brandon A. Olivares <
> thepianist2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > My wife is having the same issue. We’ve found it helps if she unplugs
> the laptop before shutting it. She can then plug it back in if she wants
> to, and it still stays sleeping.
> >> On Oct 30, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Yet another difficulty I experience after upgrade to Sierra is that
> neither my old MacBook Air nor my 2014 MacBook pro go to sleep when I close
> the lid.  Once the lid is closed, Voiceover keeps repeating rotor menu
> items.  The only way I can put it to sleep if I want to close the lid is to
> switch of trackpad commander.  This makes me think that there’s something
> wrong here.  If the trackpad is on for Voiceover use, when I close the lid,
> it prevents the mac from sleeping.  Any experiences like this from anyone
> else?
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> --
> >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >>
> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>
> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>
> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
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> >
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> > ---
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>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> ---
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Re: Article: Apple on target for October MacBook Release

[Kevin Chao]

Devices I've connected via USB-C fly across the room or to the ground when
I pull them or kick the cable...Too bad MagSafe2 is gone

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 8:58 PM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Yeah the USB C power connection isn’t going to work for me well.
>
>
>
> I at least know if I connect my foot to the mag safe adaptor it’ just pops
> off the side of the machine,
>
>
>
> USB C kind of concerning  I can see a notebook or more getting pulled off
> a desk.
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Kevin Chao
> *Sent:* Sunday, 30 October 2016 11:07 AM
>
>
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Article: Apple on target for October MacBook Release
>
>
>
> One thing I'll miss from MagSafe 2 is the magnetic connect/disconnect.
> However, I'm ecited about USB-C, as I've 64-watt and other USB-c power
> adapters/cables everywhere.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 11:00 PM Maria Chapman 
> wrote:
>
> Hmmm I run a usb hub and wireless headphones that run on usb.  Will there
> be adaptors available to still be able to run devices?
>
> Maria
>
> > On 19 Oct 2016, at 4:03 AM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >
> > Found this article on redmond pie and it seemed totally on topic to
> discuss.  Includes expectations about the up coming release of the laptops
> including the end of the MacBook air 11, the 12 Inch MacBook taking the
> place of the 11 inch air, the continuation and upgrade of the MacBook air
> 13, and changes to the MacBook Pro..  The article notes the source has a
> hit and miss record with rumors, it does indicate that it matches other
> reports from more reliable sources so it seems worth reading.  I’d be
> interested in comments, I’m not sure I like all the proposed changes.
> >   The changes include an OLED light bar (I assume in place of
> function keys), no more mag safe adapter, no more USB, and what’s being
> included is USB-C (I do like this) (Thunderbolt 3 (Apple always has to
> provide a little bit different but proprietary port that’s a little faster,
> just because) and the power button has the fingerprint Censor (I like it).
> > What do you all think?
> >
> > Read more here.
> >
> http://www.redmondpie.com/2016-macbook-pro-still-on-track-for-october-launch-will-feature-usb-c-and-thunderbolt-3/
> >
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> > ---
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> The following info

Re: Article: Apple on target for October MacBook Release

[Kevin Chao]

One thing I'll miss from MagSafe 2 is the magnetic connect/disconnect.
However, I'm ecited about USB-C, as I've 64-watt and other USB-c power
adapters/cables everywhere.

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 11:00 PM Maria Chapman 
wrote:

> Hmmm I run a usb hub and wireless headphones that run on usb.  Will there
> be adaptors available to still be able to run devices?
>
> Maria
>
> > On 19 Oct 2016, at 4:03 AM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >
> > Found this article on redmond pie and it seemed totally on topic to
> discuss.  Includes expectations about the up coming release of the laptops
> including the end of the MacBook air 11, the 12 Inch MacBook taking the
> place of the 11 inch air, the continuation and upgrade of the MacBook air
> 13, and changes to the MacBook Pro..  The article notes the source has a
> hit and miss record with rumors, it does indicate that it matches other
> reports from more reliable sources so it seems worth reading.  I’d be
> interested in comments, I’m not sure I like all the proposed changes.
> >   The changes include an OLED light bar (I assume in place of
> function keys), no more mag safe adapter, no more USB, and what’s being
> included is USB-C (I do like this) (Thunderbolt 3 (Apple always has to
> provide a little bit different but proprietary port that’s a little faster,
> just because) and the power button has the fingerprint Censor (I like it).
> > What do you all think?
> >
> > Read more here.
> >
> http://www.redmondpie.com/2016-macbook-pro-still-on-track-for-october-launch-will-feature-usb-c-and-thunderbolt-3/
> >
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
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Re: This is Apple’s new OLED MacBook Pro

[Kevin Chao]

My Google Pixel 2 has quad-core I7.
I do see that the Touch Bar 13" Pro has 16GB, but it doesn't show-up until
customizing--it should be the default. The upgrade should be 32GB RAM, but
I don't even see a way of customizing RAM for 15" Pro.

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 12:52 PM jeff `greene  wrote:

> Hi Kevin, Very few 13-inch windows laptops have a quad-core processor.
> The only ones I know of are made by Aerus and they are gaming machines
> and cost like $2499. You can get 16gb in the new 13-inch macbook pro,
> I just looked on Apple's website.
> Jeff
>
>
> On 10/29/16, Devin Prater  wrote:
> > I hate how expensive it all is. I have a $500 Windows 10 laptop,
> > quadcore CPU, 8 gigs ram, 1 TB spinning hard drive, and it works great.
> >
> >
> > On 10/29/2016 2:47 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
> >> It's disappointing that one has to go to the 15" to get 16GB RAM and
> >> quad-core CPU, where the 13" Pro I've now has 16GB RAM, and current
> >> 13" ChromeBooks and Windows laptops have quad-core CPU. The new OLED
> >> Touch Panel Pro seems to have a 50% mark-up over previous Pros or
> >> other comparable laptops.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 1:25 AM Simon Fogarty  >> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Now for the air replacement and 2 to 3 weeks for the touchbar
> models.
> >>
> >> *From:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> >> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Donna
> Goodin
> >> *Sent:* Friday, 28 October 2016 7:54 AM
> >> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> >> *Subject:* Re: This is Apple’s new OLED MacBook Pro
> >>
> >> I had to miss the end of the event.  When do the new MacBooks
> >> start shipping? Thinking I might grab one of the current MBA
> >> models while I still can.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Donna
> >>
> >> On Oct 27, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Kliphton Miller
> >> mailto:kliph...@icloud.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> They basically put a track pad with multi functions above the
> >> keys.  Think I will pass on the touch bar model, just go with
> >> the 12 inch macbook.
> >>
> >> Kliph
> >>
> >> Sent from my mobile office
> >>
> >>
> >> On Oct 27, 2016, at 2:38 PM, Scott Granados
> >> mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> This doesn’t really excite me as much as I thought.
> >>
> >> Things I like are definitely the touch ID, I’ll have to try
> >> the touch bar to see if I like it, smaller and thinner is good
> >> but does this mean hotter as well, it’s already hot, and I
> >> wish we had more processing boost.  I also don’t like that for
> >> premium graphics now on the pro I have to pay extra.  If I
> >> pick a 15 inch model the extra powerful graphics should be
> >> included, not $100 extra.  Having 2 TB of storage is nice but
> >> not worth $800 more considering how much less expensive high
> >> end flash storage is on the 3rd party market.  And why why
> >> why, only 16 GB?  Give me a 32 option, I will pay more for
> >> that more willingly than for extra graphics power.  For the
> >> price of the storage I’ll just build my own flash based NAS
> >> and store my files on the network.  I don’t feel I need to run
> >> right out and replace my MacBook mid 2015 that’s 2.8 turbo
> >> boost to 4.0 ghz quad core powered anyway.  Why not give me an
> >> 8 core option?
> >>
> >> Apple, you need to start doing better, push the boundaries
> >> more and innovate more.  This incremental stuff is the game of
> >> lesser players.
> >>
> >> On Oct 27, 2016, at 1:44 PM, christopher hallsworth
> >> mailto:challswor...@icloud.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/10/27/this-is-apples-new-oled-macbook-pro/
> >>
> >>
> >>   This is Ap

Re: This is Apple’s new OLED MacBook Pro

[Kevin Chao]

It's disappointing that one has to go to the 15" to get 16GB RAM and
quad-core CPU, where the 13" Pro I've now has 16GB RAM, and current 13"
ChromeBooks and Windows laptops have quad-core CPU. The new OLED Touch
Panel Pro seems to have a 50% mark-up over previous Pros or other
comparable laptops.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 1:25 AM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Now for the air replacement and 2 to 3 weeks for the touchbar models.
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Donna Goodin
> *Sent:* Friday, 28 October 2016 7:54 AM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: This is Apple’s new OLED MacBook Pro
>
>
>
> I had to miss the end of the event.  When do the new MacBooks start
> shipping?  Thinking I might grab one of the current MBA models while I
> still can.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Donna
>
> On Oct 27, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
>
>
>
> They basically put a track pad with multi functions above the keys.  Think
> I will pass on the touch bar model, just go with the 12 inch macbook.
>
> Kliph
>
> Sent from my mobile office
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2016, at 2:38 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> This doesn’t really excite me as much as I thought.
>
>
>
> Things I like are definitely the touch ID, I’ll have to try the touch bar
> to see if I like it, smaller and thinner is good but does this mean hotter
> as well, it’s already hot, and I wish we had more processing boost.  I also
> don’t like that for premium graphics now on the pro I have to pay extra.
> If I pick a 15 inch model the extra powerful graphics should be included,
> not $100 extra.  Having 2 TB of storage is nice but not worth $800 more
> considering how much less expensive high end flash storage is on the 3rd
> party market.  And why why why, only 16 GB?  Give me a 32 option, I will
> pay more for that more willingly than for extra graphics power.  For the
> price of the storage I’ll just build my own flash based NAS and store my
> files on the network.  I don’t feel I need to run right out and replace my
> MacBook mid 2015 that’s 2.8 turbo boost to 4.0 ghz quad core powered
> anyway.  Why not give me an 8 core option?
>
>
>
> Apple, you need to start doing better, push the boundaries more and
> innovate more.  This incremental stuff is the game of lesser players.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2016, at 1:44 PM, christopher hallsworth <
> challswor...@icloud.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/10/27/this-is-apples-new-oled-macbook-pro/
> This is Apple’s new OLED MacBook Pro
>
> [image: hello again event macbook pro compare]
>
> “The Mac is more than a product to us. It’s a testament to everything we
> do and create at Apple,” said Apple CEO Tim Cook at today’s “Hello again”
> Mac keynote presentation
>  as
> he unveiled long-expected updates to Mac notebooks. The new MacBook Pro
> has, as rumored, has an OLED touch bar replacing the row of function keys
> whose function changes from one app to another, called Touch Bar.
>
> It comes in 13 and 15-inch flavors and Silver and Space Gray finishes, has
> 2x larger trackpad with ForceTouch haptic feedback, faster Intel chips and
> more.
>
> The 13-inch MacBook Pro weighs in at three pounds, almost half a pound
> lighter than the previous generation. It’s also seventeen percent thinner
> and has 25 percent less volume than its predecessor.
>
> [image: hello again event macbook pro 15 inch]
>
> The 15-incher weighs in at 4 pounds, is fourteen percent thinner and has
> twenty percent less volume. Both machines have a second-generation Touch ID
> with sapphire crystal protection integrated into the Power button. With a
> fingerprint scan, customers can authenticate Apple Pay purchases and
> authorize apps, like on the iPhone.
>
> s
>
> [image: hello again event 25 years notebook]
>
> By the way, this week mark’s 25th anniversary of Apple’s first notebook,
> the PowerBook, which defined the modern notebook with a matrix-dot display,
> keyboard-forward design creating a room for a trackpad and other features.
>
>
>
>
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Re: Anything new, good or bad, related to voiceover in the new update for Sierra

[Kevin Chao]

Unlock with Watch is more reliable. Aside from other small stability
improvements, I've not noticed anything for VoiceOver in 10.12.1.

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 3:48 PM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> I haven’t noticed anything sideways with the new release.  I am noticing
> for example the unlock with watch feature is far more reliable and some
> small things like that.  Also very stable but nothing pro or conn
> accessibility wise.  I don’t recall the post off hand to comment on the
> specific issue.
>
> Thanks
>
> > On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:40 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> >
> > On one of these two lists, and I don't remember which one, there was a
> cryptic comment not too long ago from someone saying that they were unhappy
> with something about the Sierra beta, which is now the official Sierra
> update. Because they were running a beta, they didn't want to comment on
> what the thing was that they didn't like that had to do with excess
> ability. I haven't installed the update yet, and I'm curious what people
> have noticed, good or bad who have installed the latest update.
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > --
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Re: Mirai-based DDoS attack highlights benefits of Apple's secure HomeKit platform

[Kevin Chao]

Google Home, including home control is extremely secure and accessible.
It's far more robust and delightful than anything I've experienced.

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 10:52 AM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> Absolutely they should.  Do you want some bad guy spying on your baby
> monitor or tapping your television?  I have a friend who installed a nest
> in his apartment.  He got screwed and was forced to move out but the
> building owner who took his unit never reconfigured the thermostat so my
> friend would randomly turn it up to 100 or down to 30 to mess with the guy.
>
> haha
>
> That’s minor.  I’m not sure if you watch Mr. Robot, I found it hard to
> follow, but there’s one part where hackers make one of the people’s home’s
> appliances and systems go crazy turning on the music full blast etc.  When
> she was so frustrated from the house going crazy she walks outside and is
> killed.  They used the irritation to get her out of the house.  You never
> know what could happen if your devices are compromised.
>
> On Oct 23, 2016, at 1:46 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>
> I was really surprised when I saw that bit about the requirement for the
> encryption code. I wonder how this new Google home is going to compare
> security wise. Most people may not care, but they should.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 22, 2016, at 10:36 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> Now that’s interesting.  That’s a pretty heavy duty technical article but
> it makes me wonder about some of these home devices.  I never looked in to
> the home kit stuff that much.  I’m a lot more likely to now knowing that
> level of security is involved.  With advanced features like that I can see
> why the Government hates Apple.:)  A 3072 bit key is 3 times the required
> bits for military cyphers.  You could probably get DOD certification on a
> system like that.  Wow!
>
> On Oct 22, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>
> Really worth considering before you get less secure iot devices.
>
> Mirai-based DDoS attack highlights benefits of Apple's secure HomeKit
> platform
> AppleInsider
>
>  A distributed denial of service (DDoS) attack that on Friday severely
> impacted internet access for many U.S. web denizens was found to be in part
> enabled by a botnet targeting unprotected "Internet of Things" devices. For
> Apple, the revelation vindicates a controversial walled garden approach to
> IoT, borne out through the encryption HomeKit protocol.
>
>
> As detailed yesterday, unknown hackers set their sights
> 
> on Dyn, an internet management company that provides DNS services to many
> major web entities.
>
> A series of repeated attacks caused websites including *The Verge*, Imgur
> and Reddit, as well as services like HBO Now, and PayPal, to see slowdowns
> and extended downtimes. Follow-up waves played havoc with *The New York
> Times*, CNN, Netflix, Twitter and the PlayStation Network, among many
> others.
>
> Though Dyn was initially unable to nail down a source, subsequent
> information published by security research firm Flashpoint revealed the
> targeted attacks involved a strain
> 
> of the Mirai malware, reports Brian Krebs. Krebs has firsthand experience
> with Mirai, as the malware was deployed in a DDoS attack that brought down
> his website, *KrebsOnSecurity*, in September.
>
> Mirai searches the web for IoT devices set up with default admin username
> and password combinations, Krebs says. Once discovered, the malware
> infiltrates and uses poorly protected hardware to facilitate a DDoS attack
> on an online entity, in this case Dyn.
>
> Poor security practices are nothing new. Uninitiated or lazy end users
> have for decades left factory default settings untouched on routers,
> networked printers and other potential intrusion vectors. But this is
> different.
>
> DVRs and IP cameras made by Chinese company XiongMai Technologies, as well
> as other connected gadgets currently flooding the market, contain a
> grievous security vulnerability and are in large part responsible for
> hosting the botnet.According to Krebs, DVRs and IP cameras made by
> Chinese company XiongMai Technologies, as well as other connected gadgets
> currently flooding the market, contain a grievous security vulnerability
> and are in large part responsible for hosting the botnet. As he explains, a
> portion of these devices can be reached via Telnet and SSH even after a
> user changes the default username and password.
>
> "The issue with these particular devices is that a user cannot feasibly
> change this password," said Zach Wikholm, research developer at Flashpoint.
> "The password is hardcoded into the firmware, and the tools necessary to
> disable it are not present. Even worse, the web interface is not aware that
> these credentials even exist."
>
> To pr

Re: Article: Apple on target for October MacBook Release

[Kevin Chao]

I use 65-watt USB-C adapter with Google Pixel 2 ChromeBook.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:39 PM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> Anders, I would assume they charge using the USBC port.  THere’s a sub
> section of that spec that includes power.
>
>
> > On Oct 22, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Anders Holmberg 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> > If they remove the magsafe adaptor what will then be around instead?
> > Thats one thing i don’t get.
> > The removal of the function keys may not be so good but that depends on
> how the accessibility team resolves this.
> > /A
> >> On 18 Oct 2016, at 19:03, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Found this article on redmond pie and it seemed totally on topic to
> discuss.  Includes expectations about the up coming release of the laptops
> including the end of the MacBook air 11, the 12 Inch MacBook taking the
> place of the 11 inch air, the continuation and upgrade of the MacBook air
> 13, and changes to the MacBook Pro..  The article notes the source has a
> hit and miss record with rumors, it does indicate that it matches other
> reports from more reliable sources so it seems worth reading.  I’d be
> interested in comments, I’m not sure I like all the proposed changes.
> >>  The changes include an OLED light bar (I assume in place of
> function keys), no more mag safe adapter, no more USB, and what’s being
> included is USB-C (I do like this) (Thunderbolt 3 (Apple always has to
> provide a little bit different but proprietary port that’s a little faster,
> just because) and the power button has the fingerprint Censor (I like it).
> >> What do you all think?
> >>
> >> Read more here.
> >>
> http://www.redmondpie.com/2016-macbook-pro-still-on-track-for-october-launch-will-feature-usb-c-and-thunderbolt-3/
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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Re: Google Hangouts on macOS

[Kevin Chao]

The 3 URLs I cited work in Safari. VoiceOver works well in Chrome.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 7:24 PM Maria Chapman 
wrote:

> HI.
>
> some pages work well on safari, and some work well on google crome.  For
> the most part I’ve found crome to be fine with vo.
>
> HTH.
>
> Maria
>
> On 23 Oct 2016, at 1:15 PM, Brandt Steenkamp 
> wrote:
>
> That really sucks big time.
>
> I usually use Chromevox when using Google Chrome, since when I started
> using my Mac, voice over did not like Chrome very much. By the way, is that
> still the case?
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Brandt Steenkamp
>
> Sent from my Macbook Pro
>
> Contact:
>
> Phone:
> Private: +27 (0)60 525 9181 
> For technical support with iOS: +27 (0)78 120 5013
>
> Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com
>
> Twitter: @brandtsteenkamp <http://www.twitter.com/brandtsteenkamp>
>
> On 22 Oct 2016, at 5:16 AM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> Hangouts can be accessed via Chrome extension, hangouts.google.com,
> gmail.com, or inbox.google.com
> There is no native Mac client :(
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 1:52 PM Brandt Steenkamp <
> brandt.steenk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi again folks,
>
> I am looking for a way to use Google Hangouts from my Mac, I know you can
> do so from the Web, but I personally prefer to do so from an App. I know
> text chatting is available from the messaging app, but Audio and Video is
> not.
>
> If anyone can help, I would be grateful.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Brandt Steenkamp
>
> Sent from my Macbook Pro
>
> Contact:
>
> Phone:
> Private: +27 (0)60 525 9181 <+27%2060%20525%209181>  <+27%2060%20525%209181>>
> For technical support with iOS: +27 (0)78 120 5013 <+27%2078%20120%205013>
>
> Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com
>
> Twitter: @brandtsteenkamp <http://www.twitter.com/brandtsteenkamp>
>
> --
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Re: Braille Navigation annoyances

[Kevin Chao]

I'm glad to know I'm not alone in feeling that Braille on Mac, even Sierra
is non-delightful/productive. It's too bad,, as it's quite good on iOS.
It's great that Chrome OS (ChromeBook) Braille support has improved greatly
and has leaped other platforms with ChromeVox Next.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 1:26 PM Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

> I have given up using braille on the Mac as it's hopeless.  I don't think
> Apple will do anything to improve it.  At least Apple have got it right on
> the I phone as I love it.
>
> Kawal.
> > On 19 Oct 2016, at 19:09, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> > To be honest i seldom use braille on my mac as its decades from how good
> it works on windows and Linux.
> > I have mailed the accessibility team about how poor braille is imho but
> with no luck.
> > So i gave it up a couple of years ago.
> > Maybe i should begin from scratch again.
> > /A
> >> On 14 Oct 2016, at 23:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland <
> clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> That's exactly what I did. I set up a commander to mute Speech. I
> really wonder why they didn't natively give us a command to do this aside
> from the trackpad commander. What if you're like me, and don't have a
> track/touch pad? I really don't think Apple thought that one through the
> greatest. LOL!
> >> ---
> >> Christopher Gilland
> >> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> >> Training Instructor.
> >>
> >> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> >> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> >> - Original Message - From: "Aleeha Dudley" <
> blindcowgirl1...@gmail.com>
> >> To: 
> >> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:20 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Braille Navigation annoyances
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> For the speech when moving between items, could you mute VoiceOver
> while reading to solve this issue by ensuring that keyboard commander is on
> with VO shift K and pressing right option d?
> >> Second, I can duplicate the issue of routing keys not working, both on
> a BrailleNote Apex BT 32 and a Brailliant BI 32. I don’t know what’s going
> on, but it’s really annoying. Anyone who can help with this would be
> awesome.
> >> HTH,
> >> Aleeha
> >>> On Oct 14, 2016, at 12:06 PM, Chris Gilland 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Guys,
> >>>
> >>> I am currently using a braille display with my Mac Mini Late 2012 on
> El Capitan.
> >>>
> >>> I have a few questions, please.
> >>>
> >>> First off, I am using contracted braille, and have disabled dot 7 8
> braille.  I’m noticing that when typing in a text field, be it in Text
> Edit, Pages, Mail, wherever, it doesn’t matter at all, even though
> contracted braille is enabled, I’m finding that the current word under the
> cursor is getting expanded to computer braille. I’ve looked in the
> Voiceover utility under the Braille category and automatic translation is
> unchecked. That’s the only thing I can thing that would control this
> behavior. Regardless, that isn’t working. Is there a way to turn that off,
> so it contracts regardless?
> >>>
> >>> Second of all is a much more aggravating problem by far and away!
> >>>
> >>> When I am reading a document in Safari, or say somewhere with an html
> element, like a web area in ITunes, or whatever, point is, it’s a web html
> content area, Each paragraph if a seperet item as far as Voiceover is
> concerned. I’m using DOM order, and I don’t have any desire to change
> that.  This is absolutely fine, but the problem lies in panning with the
> display.  Regardless if I’m using my big Alva Satelite 584 Pro, which is my
> primary display, or I’m using my Pacmate BX Omni 20 cell while on the go, I
> find that as soon as I pan the display to the right and it leaves one item
> and moves to the next, Voiceover starts audibly, with Alex, reading that
> next item. I know it’s simply doing that because of the fact I transitioned
> from the previous item to another item. The issue is, it really is very
> distracting when I’m in the heat of reading a really good article. Then, I
> have to take my hands off the display, hit the control key on the keyboard
> to shut up Alex, then go back to the display, and continue. It really
> really breaks the flow of things. I don’t mind Voiceover doing this
> normally, but there are times I’d rather be able to pan, and even if I
> leave one item and move to another, I’d rather it reflect that on the
> display, yes, but Voiceover not speak at all, if all I’m doing is panning.
> It’s fine if one item takes more than one pan to complete, so say on my 20
> cell display, an item is over 20 characters. If I pan past the 20th cell to
> the 21st cell of the item, that is fine. It’s when I reach the end of the
> item, then try moving to the next item there after that this problem is
> occuring.
> >>>
> >>> The final question I have is regarding my routing keys on my display.
> I don’t understand why, but even in Sierra, this is an issue.  For some b
> izarre reason, my routing keys are not working at all on my Alva Satelite
> Pro 584.  It’s the most weirdest thing!  My PM20 display works fi

Re: Downloading voices in Sierra

[Kevin Chao]

I've ALex everywhere, except for Watch, and switched to it when it was
available on TV. I was just puzzled on this thread of downloading other
voices.

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 11:23 PM christopher hallsworth <
challswor...@icloud.com> wrote:

> Alex on iOS is the most responsive on all my devices, iPhone 5s, iPad Mini
> 2 and iPod Touch 6.
>
>
> > On 22 Oct 2016, at 07:21, Blee Blat  wrote:
> >
> > On a related note, is there a voice on iOS or Mac OS that is more
> battery efficient or more responsive? I haven't found a way to measure
> this. VoiceOver doesn't show up in the battery status.
> >
> > --
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Re: Speed test comparison between Google Pixel and iPhone 7+

[Kevin Chao]

If it were Google Assistant against Siri - we know who would win

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Re: Downloading voices in Sierra

[Kevin Chao]

Which Mac voices do VoiceOver users prefer to download?

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 9:14 AM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> Phil, it depends on how many voices you’re pulling down.  I’ve seen this
> take from 30 seconds on the fast side to over an hour on the slow.  I would
> wait a while longer and see if you get anywhere.
>
> I’m also assuming your downloading these over a normal provider and not
> cellular service.  Some services limit the size of downloads.
>
> On Oct 14, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
>
> I've set several voices to download in the voice over utilities, but they
> seem to be stuck in the "waiting to download"status. Is it normal for them
> to be in the hold status for an hour or more? I have my MacBook air on
> power with Wi-Fi connected.
>
>
> Sent from my IPhone
>
>
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Re: Google Hangouts on macOS

[Kevin Chao]

Hangouts can be accessed via Chrome extension, hangouts.google.com,
gmail.com, or inbox.google.com
There is no native Mac client :(

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 1:52 PM Brandt Steenkamp 
wrote:

> Hi again folks,
>
> I am looking for a way to use Google Hangouts from my Mac, I know you can
> do so from the Web, but I personally prefer to do so from an App. I know
> text chatting is available from the messaging app, but Audio and Video is
> not.
>
> If anyone can help, I would be grateful.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Brandt Steenkamp
>
> Sent from my Macbook Pro
>
> Contact:
>
> Phone:
> Private: +27 (0)60 525 9181 
> For technical support with iOS: +27 (0)78 120 5013
>
> Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com
>
> Twitter: @brandtsteenkamp 
>
> --
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Re: Article: Apple on target for October MacBook Release

[Kevin Chao]

1. How will OLD light function strip work with VoiceOver?
2. I look forward to USB-C, as I've got many of these cables, including
65-watt adapter for various surfaces already.
3. Hope they'll have 32GB or 64GB ram options for MacBook. this MBP with
16B RAM is a huge boost over MBA 8GB RAM--I wish I made the jump years ago.
4. lightning to 3.5mm adapter is ~1" in between either end, but I've only
used it a couple of times the first day to see how it worked, but I've
never used it since then.
5. I've mostly used the lightning EarPods or Bluetooth headset, but look
forward to the AirPods.
6. I love the iPhone 7 with stereo speakers and VoiceOver!

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:02 PM Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
wrote:

> Scot, i will have to ask the guys what they did. The way it works for
> me right now is that i can turn it on and off, at certain situations,
> FX if I'm landing the plane ad the airport where there is like 30
> other planes lined up on the runway.
> Unless if you have a huge stach of money i don't think you will wanna
> do this, in case the mac burns off.
> But will ask, of course .
>
> On 10/21/16, Scott Granados  wrote:
> > I’m excited to see what they are like as well.  I bet they will be
> released
> > although I don’t think they would have an event about just the pods Since
> > the pods were already covered in the September iPhone event.  Sounds
> > reasonable for release day though.
> >
> >> On Oct 21, 2016, at 3:53 AM, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Scott,
> >>
> >> They do still have the apple ear pods to release this month, late
> October
> >> as it says on the website, possibly the event next week is the release
> of
> >> the pods?
> >>
> >> Personally I can't wait to see what they're like,
> >> They do soud chunky but that's not the same as seeing what they really
> are
> >> like.
> >>
> >> I just hope they aren't sounding like beets headphones
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> >> Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2016 4:53 AM
> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: Article: Apple on target for October MacBook Release
> >>
> >> FYI Apple is announcing an event next Thursday.
> >>
> >> Probably to release these MacBooks.
> >>
> >>> On Oct 19, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Interesting.  I didn't know about the extra gig of program memory.  I
> can
> >>> see where that would be handy, but still don't think I'd want such a
> >>> ginormous phone.
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Donna
>  On Oct 19, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Scott Granados <
> scott.grana...@gmail.com>
>  wrote:
> 
>  The + also has a second camera, an extra gig of program memory and a
> bit
>  larger battery as I understand it.
> 
> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Donna Goodin 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi ET,
> >
> > The 7--both the plus and the regular have:
> > a newer, faster processor
> > the new chip that supports the airpots Improved camera (I realize
> > that may or may not matter to you) stereo speakers  (I personally
> > find the sound noticeably improved) The new virtual home button Is
> > slightly thinner
> >
> >
> > Others can probably add to this list.  Remember the Plus refers to
> the
> > larger sized phone.  Personally I prefer the smaller size, but that
> > seems to be a gender dependent thing, i.e. most guys seem to like the
> > Plus, most women don't.
> > HTH,
> > Donna
> >> On Oct 19, 2016, at 9:01 AM, E.T. 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I was thinking 6s. What does the 7 plus have that the non plus model
> >> does not? By the way, how long is the lightning to 3.5 adapter?
> >>
> >> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> >> Without H2O there is no life!
> >> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> >>
> >> On 10/18/2016 10:24 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> >>> A new iPhone is a most worth while cause.  I love my 7+.  Go with
> the
> >>> plus if you do upgrade.
> >>>
>  On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:49 PM, E.T. 
>  wrote:
> 
>  Interesting developments to be. I know nothing about USB C but I
>  usually go with the flow and so expect it probably will be an easy
>  enough change to adapt to.
> 
>  The touch bar I find interesting too. We need someone to beta test
>  hardware! Oh right. NDA. So much for that.
> 
>  My mid 2012 MBP still seems healthy whereas my bank account is not
>  so a new Mac is not on my radar. A new iPhone has a better chance.
> 
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Without H2O there is no life!
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>  On 10/18/2016 10:03 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> > Found this article on redmond pie and it seemed totally on topic
> to
> > discuss.  Includes expectations about the up coming release of

Re: Google Docs question

[Kevin Chao]

In DOcs, there's also option+/ that will let you search through hotkeys

On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 8:12 AM michael babcock 
wrote:

> and your right sorry:
> To open a list of keyboard shortcuts in Google Docs, press Ctrl + /
> (Windows, Chrome OS) or ⌘ + / (Mac).
>
> On Oct 2, 2016, at 8:11 AM, michael babcock 
> wrote:
>
> i’m sorry, you need to move focus out of the editing of the document with
> “VO+Left or VO+Right” then use the question mark to open the keystrokes.
> or, reference this article for the keystrokes:
>
> https://support.google.com/docs/answer/179738?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en
> 
>
> On Oct 2, 2016, at 7:58 AM, Chris G  wrote:
>
> Hi,
> So if I am editing in a doc for example, wouldn't a question mark put in a
> question mark?
> On my Chrome book and Windows machines it is control-slash, but it says it
> is different on the mac.
> My 2009 mac mini is too slow to do anything with.
> Chris
>
>
>
> Chris Grabowski
> Mystic Access
> Where the magic is in learning.
> http://www.MysticAccess.com 
>
> Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts at:
> http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
>
> Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news, podcast
> updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
>
> manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
>
> Contact:
>
> Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
>
> Twitter: MysticAccess
> Facebook: mysticaccessempower
>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: michael babcock
> Sent: Sunday, Oct 2, 2016 10:53 AM EST
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Google Docs question
>
> type a question mark on any google product.
> On Oct 2, 2016, at 7:46 AM, Chris G  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Using the mac I'm looking for the hot key in google docs to bring up a
> list of all hot keys.
> The online stuff I have found shows a picture.
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Grabowski
> Mystic Access
> Where the magic is in learning.
> http://www.MysticAccess.com
>
> Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts at:
> http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
>
> Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news, podcast
> updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
>
> manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
>
> Contact:
>
> Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
>
> Twitter: MysticAccess
> Facebook: mysticaccessempower
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
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> --
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> Your Mac Visionarie

Re: New Macbook Air for Christmas

[Kevin Chao]

I wish the MBA's, whether it be 11" or 13" could accept 16GB RAM. I'm
replacing this 13" Air with 8GB RAM for Pro with 16GB RAM. Janky
performance with loud fan/excessive heat got old :(

On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 10:49 AM christopher hallsworth <
challswor...@icloud.com> wrote:

> Screen size doesn’t bother me since I am a full time VoiceOver user. My
> Macbook Pro is 13 inches anyway so don’t need another 13 inch mac at this
> time.
> > On 3 Oct 2016, at 09:41, Portia Scott  wrote:
> >
> > Aww that is so awesome. I have the base 13 inch model from 2014, and
> yeah, they are awesome. I have a feeling you will love it.
> >
> > Portia.
> >> On Oct 3, 2016, at 1:25 AM, christopher hallsworth <
> challswor...@icloud.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello everyone.
> >>
> >> Well just thought to let you know that for Christmas I will be treating
> myself to the new 11 inch Macbook Air with base configuration: 4 GB RAM,
> 1.6 GHZ processor with turbo boost up to over 2 GHZ, Intel Core i5, 128 GB
> pcie-based flash storage. Since I have an old, but very much usable, 13
> inch Macbook Pro this should suit me fine.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >>
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> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
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can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mai

Re: Anyone else having issues with Netflix?

[Kevin Chao]

Given Play Music is 100% audio and 0% video, not sure why there is need for
audio description?

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 2:45 PM Christopher-Mark Gilland <
clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nor is there on Google Play music, which you know, really honestly kind of
> surprised me.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message -
> From: "David Chittenden" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Anyone else having issues with Netflix?
>
>
> There is no audio description on Amazon Video.
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 15/10/2016, at 23:15, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> >
> > Hey Scott,
> >
> > Didn't know the financial info, interesting.  I hate to do it, we've been
> > happy with Netflix, but may be time to switch to Amazon.
> > Cheers,
> > Donna
> >> On Oct 15, 2016, at 8:07 AM, Scott Granados 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Donna, I think Netflix is more interested in making payroll at this
> >> point.:)  They are in a very tight position right now.  They have to pay
> >> for creating their own content and are competing with Amazon who has
> >> enough spare money in their couch cushions to burry netflix.  For
> >> example, they (Netflix) just paid Chris Rock 40 million for 3 hours of
> >> programming.  I have also heard they have cut their catalog in half in
> >> recent days.  I’m not saying they will go under tomorrow but they aren’t
> >> the high fliers they were a short time ago.  Unfortunately,
> accessibility
> >> usually takes a back seat when they are more concerned with things like
> >> keeping the lights on.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> So I thought Netflix recently lost a lawsuit and is supposed to be
> >>> becoming more accessible?
> >>>
> >>> I keep having problems accessing it from my Apple TV.  When I click on
> >>> either my husband's or my profile, I'm taken to the Popular on Netflix
> >>> screen, and there doesn't seem to be any way to access the recently
> >>> viewed shows in that profile.  Is anyone else experiencing this?
> Anyone
> >>> know of a solution?
> >>> TIA,
> >>> Donna
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> >>> Visionaries list.
> >>>
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> >>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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> >>
> >> --
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> >> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
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> >>
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> > Your Mac Visionaries li

Re: Article from Digital trends continues. Only Apple could do this.

[Kevin Chao]

W1 Chip still has lag :(
Based on below excerpt, latency in w1 chip is less than most Bluetooth, but
latency /= 0 ms | /= Wired connection.
"... a RemoteTalk headphone cable with 3.5mm headphone jacks ...  This,
effectively, allows you to turn your Beats Solo3 Wireless Headphones into a
pair of Beats Solo3 Wired Headphones. This is great for those times ... for
other occasions, such as low latency podcast monitoring (latency is
significantly less than most Bluetooth headphones, yet it’s still
discernible.)"
https://9to5mac.com/2016/09/15/hands-on-beats-solo3-wireless-the-first-available-headphones-featuring-apples-new-w1-chip-video/

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 2:09 PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:

> Hi,
> Thanks for the clarification.  I do not use an iphone, but admit that
> seemed to be dreadfully faulty  designing if it were true.
> Kare
>
>
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
>
> > Kare, I’ve owned a lightning based device since the day it was release
> on the iPhone.  It has never popped out.  That is a red herring if I ever
> heard of one.  Try forgetting sometime to unplug your power cable or
> lightning port and let me know how that works out for you.:)  I’ve torn the
> end off a cable before with out it popping out.  This is one reason the
> apple Magsafe adapter is the way it is.  It’s just lightly attached to the
> side so if someone kicks your cable or you forget to detach it just pops
> clean, no damage to the board.
> >
> > The claim the jack pops out is more clickbait.
> >
> >> On Sep 10, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Karen Lewellen 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Scot,
> >> You do not think that having a part of a phone, i. e. the port, popping
> out when used is well a reason for concern?
> >> certainly only serious audiophiles can tell the difference in sound
> quality, but the idea of  phone parts  being easily lost  seems important
> perhaps?
> >> Kare
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
> >>
> >>> The whole thing basically turned out to be a non event with some
> looking for click bate out of the deal.
> >>>
> >>> I bet similar arguments happened when the jack was reduced from
> quarter inch to 8th inch or when we started using 3 prong plugs instead of
> 2.  (try plugging something in modern in my mother’s house, you need an
> adapter lol)  I’ll date my self but anyone remember when phones switched
> from the 4 pin open connectors to the RJ-11?  How about round tube records
> to flat records, wire to tape.  Oh man could you imagine if this was 30
> years ago and the argument would have been VHS verses Beta and the wrong
> one ended up being the standard.  Or the whole bluerey verses the other one
> that we don’t even remember any more.
> >>>
> >>> Ah well, people need to generate traffic for their blogs and look
> important.
> >>>
>  On Sep 9, 2016, at 5:36 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Change always elicits reactions like this. I am sure we all can
> think of many things that provoked similar reaction. Perhaps if a survey
> was taken where people were asked at what date would they like to see
> change stopped, the responses would be as numerous as the sand on the beach.
> 
>   There are changes happening that are much more important and
> critical than the loss of a headphone jack. But I will leave it at that.
> 
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>  On 9/9/2016 2:20 PM, Anders Holmberg wrote:
> > Hi!
> > Hmm, he seems to be having a problematic atitude imho.
> > But its his problem.
> > /AS
> >> On 9 Sep 2016, at 01:23, Karen Lewellen 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >> Like Tim I have remained silent, waiting for what others in the
> industry expressed about  the headphone jack.
> >> The article below  indicates that yes only Apple could do
> this...but frankly there is little reason for it to be done.  I found
> particularly interesting the weak nature of the lightning  port in terms of
> popping out of the phone if stressed, the less than stellar quality of both
> bluetooth and wireless headphones, at least if you care about sound
> quality, how quality could be achieved while keeping the jack,  and most
> interesting for those using audio, you cannot charge the phone and listen
> at the same time.  If it impacts music, will it also impact voiceover?
> >> Article is below.  I leave it to others here for comments if any.
> >> As the iPhone's headphone jack dies, Apple wins and you lose
> >> By Caleb Denison -- September 7, 2016 4:09 PM
> >>
> >> As predicted, Apple just killed off the headphone jack in the new
> >> iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. The familiar and universal 3.5mm
> >> headphone jack -- also known as the 1/8-inch headphone jack and
> >> TS jack -- is nowhere to be found on its new phones. Apple
> >> wheeled out plenty of rationalizations for the decision, but at
> >> the end of the day, it was a bad call, a

Re: AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome

[Kevin Chao]

W1 Chip still has lag :(
Based on below excerpt, latency in w1 chip is less than most Bluetooth, but
latency /= 0 ms | /= Wired connection.
"... a RemoteTalk headphone cable with 3.5mm headphone jacks ...  This,
effectively, allows you to turn your Beats Solo3 Wireless Headphones into a
pair of Beats Solo3 Wired Headphones. This is great for those times ... for
other occasions, such as low latency podcast monitoring (latency is
significantly less than most Bluetooth headphones, yet it’s still
discernible.)"
https://9to5mac.com/2016/09/15/hands-on-beats-solo3-wireless-the-first-available-headphones-featuring-apples-new-w1-chip-video/

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 7:19 AM Scott Granados  wrote:

> I think it all depends on when things get sourced, parts are finished and
> assembly takes place.  Apple likes to build up a big supply before they let
> something go.  You have a very good point I just figure something in the
> supply chain held something up and they didn’t want to stall on the phone.
>
> Pure speculation of course.
>
> On Sep 11, 2016, at 11:14 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> I wonder why they're not released until end of October. It would have been
> great to pre-order AirPods along the iPhone 7 and Watch Series 2.
>
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 8:10 PM David Chittenden 
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> The new Apple Air Pods, using Apple's new chip, are Bluetooth with an
> additional technology which, according to Apple, removes all delay from the
> audio. So, there should not be any delay in VoiceOver.
>
> The Air Pods will automatically switch between mono and stereo depending
> on whether they are in one ear or both ears. They can be paired with
> non-Apple bluetooth devices. They are paired to devices whilst in the
> charging case. Apparently, opening the case activates the paring system if
> they are not in range of a device that they are already paired with.
>
> In the Apple ecosystem, pairing with one device will automatically pair
> with all devices using the sane iCloud account.
>
> If they stay in my ears, and are comfortable, I am definitely getting a
> pair.
>
> Oh, and if one is lost, apparently Apple will sell single replacement
> units, though there is no mention of price yet.
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 12 Sep 2016, at 13:11, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> Do the AirPods address the inherit lag that is on *all* bluetooth audio
> devices, which is pronounced when using *any* screen reader?
> i.e. Hope the latency will be equivalent between lightning EarPods and
> wireless AirPods when using VoiceOver.
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 2:32 PM Robin  wrote:
>
> ThisChip W1Chip could Solely BelongTo Apple & Would ONLY Operate
> AppleDevices ... Apple's BlueTooth Channel
> At 06:00 AM 9/9/2016, you wrote:
>
> I don’t see how this works though.
>
> The iPhone has a specific W1 chip included.  I don’t know if bluetooth
> is the underlying wireless protocol but none of the other devices have this
> W1 chip.  So how will my EarPods talk to my iPad air2 for example with no
> W1 processor?  Must be some sort of bluetooth support under the hood for
> compatibility across the product line like that.  It wasn’t mentioned
> though so wondering how it works.  I was under the impression that the
> wireless connection itself was over a proprietary protocol and not
> bluetooth.  Would love to be wrong on that.
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2016, at 3:58 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> hang On,
> so if I pair these pods to my iPhone 6s+ which is running IOS 10,
> and if my watch is running OS3 and my iPad and iPods are all running IOS
> 10 as well, these pods will automatically be picked up by those other
> devices?
>
>
> Simply because I’m using my itunes account on all the devices.
>
>
>
> Awesome,shame about the NZ price of the pods though, apple.co.nz shows
> them as being around 250 dollars when they are released.
>
> Bloody cool though.
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ]*On
> Behalf Of *Mary Otten
> *Sent:* Friday, 9 September 2016 5:30 AM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; VIPhone 'RobH. ' via <
> viph...@googlegroups.com >
> *Subject:* AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome
>
>
> *Here is some more on the air pods. They will work with your Mac or your
> iPad or other iPhones that are logged in to the same iCloud as your new
> iPhone  AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome *Macworld
> /  Susie Ochs
>
>
> I didn’t want to like the AirPods <http://www.apple.com/airpods/>, I
> really didn’t

Re: Typing Echo and ChromeVox

[Kevin Chao]

Could you please check if Braille mode is on/off? This is in DOcs
accessibility settings menu.

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:31 PM Joshua Tubbs  wrote:

> I’m using Mac OS. Could use Windows but why should I if it’s available on
> Mac?
> Also yes, I did get the “No Typing Echo” confirmation.
>
> > On Sep 12, 2016, at 2:29 AM, Chris G 
> wrote:
> >
> > Did you  get the confirmation that the setting was changed, IE
> characters, characters and words, words etc.
> > Also did you have VoiceOver running at the same time?
> >
> > I just tried this under Windows Chrome and Chromevox and the keyboard
> echo was respected.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris Grabowski
> > Mystic Access
> > Where the magic is in learning.
> > http://www.MysticAccess.com
> >
> > Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts
> at:
> > http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
> >
> > Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news,
> podcast updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
> >
> > manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
> >
> > Contact:
> >
> > Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
> >
> > Twitter: MysticAccess
> > Facebook: mysticaccessempower
> >
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: Joshua Tubbs
> > Sent: Monday, Sep 12, 2016 2:16 AM EST
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Typing Echo and ChromeVox
> >
> > I just tested it on a Google Docs document and no way to disable it
> there, or a workaround?
> > I just set it to no typing echo, but Google Docs still speaks typing
> echo.
> >
> > On Sep 12, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Chris G 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > Try Chromevox+e then T you need to rotor through the settings. Depending
> on the setting you want, you may need to press chromevox+e, then T multiple
> times.
> > Chromevox+e, then T.
> > Chromevox+E, then T.
> > Chromevox+E then T.
> > etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris Grabowski
> > Mystic Access
> > Where the magic is in learning.
> > http://www.MysticAccess.com
> >
> > Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts
> at:
> > http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
> >
> > Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news,
> podcast updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
> >
> > manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
> >
> > Contact:
> >
> > Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
> >
> > Twitter: MysticAccess
> > Facebook: mysticaccessempower
> >
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: Joshua Tubbs
> > Sent: Monday, Sep 12, 2016 1:03 AM EST
> > To: 'Maxwell Ivey' via MacVisionaries
> > Subject: Typing Echo and ChromeVox
> >
> > Hi all,
> > So, I believe I am pressing it correctly, but I cannot get Typing Echo
> to turn off. The default classic keymap command is ChromeVox+E>T. That does
> nothing for me.
> > If that doesn’t work, what’s a good command I can change it to without
> conflicting with any other ChromeVox commands?
> > Thanks. I’ve found that Google Docs works best with ChromeVox, and if I
> wanna start writing, turning Typing Echo off is in order and I should be
> good.
> >
> >
> > --
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> Visionaries list.
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Re: SlingTV on AppleTV

[Kevin Chao]

Sling TV app on APple TV 4th gen and iPhone is one that I've found to be
difficult and confusing. Due to lack of accessibility and content, I've
given up on it.

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:10 PM Kliphton Miller 
wrote:

> Wow, it really doesn’t take much time.  Especially when you use the app
> for your every day programing, it’s just like remembering things in school,
> or how many steps it takes to get to your mail box.  2nd nature, at least
> for me anyway.
> > On Sep 18, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <
> clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > See, to me that's not accessible, and I don't have time to waist on
> counting unreadable items.  If that's your thing, then, more power to ya.
> LOL! Better you than me.
> > ---
> > Christopher Gilland
> > JAWS Certified, 2016.
> > Training Instructor.
> >
> > i...@gillandmarketing.com
> > Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> > - Original Message - From: "Kliphton Miller" <
> kliph...@icloud.com>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 2:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: SlingTV on AppleTV
> >
> >
> > It works for me, I mean if you want to do a little exploring.  I go in
> to the guide app, where all the channels are listed, remember what channels
> i like, for example, USA is 19 of 67, I go there, and can watch the live
> feed. There are other channels, but I wrote them in a note so if I need to
> find them I can.
> >> On Sep 18, 2016, at 2:12 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <
> clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Good freaking luck.  I tried using the app about 3 or 4 months ago.
> Totally inaccessible both on iOS, and on TVOS.  I called their support, and
> they basically told me, if it didn't work, get someone sighted to do it for
> me. The impression I got was that they really didn't seem to care at all
> about the accessibility side of it.
> >> ---
> >> Christopher Gilland
> >> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> >> Training Instructor.
> >>
> >> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> >> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> >> - Original Message - From: "Brandon A. Olivares" <
> thepianist2...@gmail.com>
> >> To: "“Mac Visionaries“" 
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 10:14 AM
> >> Subject: SlingTV on AppleTV
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> I saw a podcast on Applevis a while back that demonstrated SlingTV on
> the AppleTV.
> >>
> >> However, I just downloaded the SlingTV app, and the app keeps crashing
> for me. Every time I try to go to either “On Now” or “guide”, it just takes
> me back to the home screen of AppleTV.
> >>
> >> Is anyone else able to successfully use this app?
> >>
> >> Brandonthe
> >>
> >> --
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Re: 100+ iOS 10 Hidden / Secret Features For iPhone And iPad [

[Kevin Chao]

My favorite feature is the ability to remove stock Apple apps.

On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:36 PM Anders Holmberg 
wrote:

> Hi!
> I have a bit of a problem to hear him on my iphone.
> I think he must be stuck in my phone because he sounds a bit muffled.
> /A
> > On 15 Sep 2016, at 02:58, Blee Blat  wrote:
> >
> > I like Fred. It's very fast and responsive. It's just quieter than all
> the other phone sounds. But this is true in the Mac as well. Not sure why
> they have all these really human sounding voices. I'll use it for a bit and
> see how it goes. All the voices other than Fred and Alex are distorted if
> voiceover's rotor volume is at 100%. That seems rather odd. I guess that's
> a bug they still haven't fixed.  That doesn't occur on the Mac just the
> phone so it's weird.
> >
> > --
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Re: AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome

[Kevin Chao]

I wonder why they're not released until end of October. It would have been
great to pre-order AirPods along the iPhone 7 and Watch Series 2.

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 8:10 PM David Chittenden 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The new Apple Air Pods, using Apple's new chip, are Bluetooth with an
> additional technology which, according to Apple, removes all delay from the
> audio. So, there should not be any delay in VoiceOver.
>
> The Air Pods will automatically switch between mono and stereo depending
> on whether they are in one ear or both ears. They can be paired with
> non-Apple bluetooth devices. They are paired to devices whilst in the
> charging case. Apparently, opening the case activates the paring system if
> they are not in range of a device that they are already paired with.
>
> In the Apple ecosystem, pairing with one device will automatically pair
> with all devices using the sane iCloud account.
>
> If they stay in my ears, and are comfortable, I am definitely getting a
> pair.
>
> Oh, and if one is lost, apparently Apple will sell single replacement
> units, though there is no mention of price yet.
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 12 Sep 2016, at 13:11, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> Do the AirPods address the inherit lag that is on *all* bluetooth audio
> devices, which is pronounced when using *any* screen reader?
> i.e. Hope the latency will be equivalent between lightning EarPods and
> wireless AirPods when using VoiceOver.
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 2:32 PM Robin  wrote:
>
>> ThisChip W1Chip could Solely BelongTo Apple & Would ONLY Operate
>> AppleDevices ... Apple's BlueTooth Channel
>> At 06:00 AM 9/9/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> I don’t see how this works though.
>>
>> The iPhone has a specific W1 chip included.  I don’t know if bluetooth
>> is the underlying wireless protocol but none of the other devices have this
>> W1 chip.  So how will my EarPods talk to my iPad air2 for example with no
>> W1 processor?  Must be some sort of bluetooth support under the hood for
>> compatibility across the product line like that.  It wasn’t mentioned
>> though so wondering how it works.  I was under the impression that the
>> wireless connection itself was over a proprietary protocol and not
>> bluetooth.  Would love to be wrong on that.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2016, at 3:58 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>
>> hang On,
>> so if I pair these pods to my iPhone 6s+ which is running IOS 10,
>> and if my watch is running OS3 and my iPad and iPods are all running IOS
>> 10 as well, these pods will automatically be picked up by those other
>> devices?
>>
>>
>> Simply because I’m using my itunes account on all the devices.
>>
>>
>>
>> Awesome,shame about the NZ price of the pods though, apple.co.nz shows
>> them as being around 250 dollars when they are released.
>>
>> Bloody cool though.
>>
>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ]*On
>> Behalf Of *Mary Otten
>> *Sent:* Friday, 9 September 2016 5:30 AM
>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; VIPhone 'RobH. ' via <
>> viph...@googlegroups.com >
>> *Subject:* AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome
>>
>>
>> *Here is some more on the air pods. They will work with your Mac or your
>> iPad or other iPhones that are logged in to the same iCloud as your new
>> iPhone  AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome 
>> *Macworld
>> /  Susie Ochs
>>
>>
>> I didn’t want to like the AirPods <http://www.apple.com/airpods/>, I
>> really didn’t. But in the hands-on area after Apple’s iPhone 7 event on
>> Wednesday, I found myself dancing along in spite of myself—and the AirPods
>> stayed put, feeling surprisingly secure. With convvenient features on both
>> the hardware and software sides, I have to admit that Apple’s
>> totally-wireless AirPods kind of rocked my world.
>>
>> When they’re in your ears, the AirPods kind of look like the old wired
>> EarPods that someone snipped the wires off of. The earbud part fills your
>> ear just as before, and a plastic stem hangs down a bit below your earlobe.
>> They’re the same general shape as the EarPods and made from the same hard
>> white plastic.
>>
>> Now, that plastic has been a deal-breaker for me for years—I hate how
>> normal EarPods feel iin my ears. They don’t seem like they’re going to
>> stay put, and they simply fall ou

Re: AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome

[Kevin Chao]

Do the AirPods address the inherit lag that is on *all* bluetooth audio
devices, which is pronounced when using *any* screen reader?
i.e. Hope the latency will be equivalent between lightning EarPods and
wireless AirPods when using VoiceOver.

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 2:32 PM Robin  wrote:

> ThisChip W1Chip could Solely BelongTo Apple & Would ONLY Operate
> AppleDevices ... Apple's BlueTooth Channel
> At 06:00 AM 9/9/2016, you wrote:
>
> I don’t see how this works though.
>
> The iPhone has a specific W1 chip included.  I don’t know if bluetooth
> is the underlying wireless protocol but none of the other devices have this
> W1 chip.  So how will my EarPods talk to my iPad air2 for example with no
> W1 processor?  Must be some sort of bluetooth support under the hood for
> compatibility across the product line like that.  It wasn’t mentioned
> though so wondering how it works.  I was under the impression that the
> wireless connection itself was over a proprietary protocol and not
> bluetooth.  Would love to be wrong on that.
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2016, at 3:58 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> hang On,
> so if I pair these pods to my iPhone 6s+ which is running IOS 10,
> and if my watch is running OS3 and my iPad and iPods are all running IOS
> 10 as well, these pods will automatically be picked up by those other
> devices?
>
>
> Simply because I’m using my itunes account on all the devices.
>
>
>
> Awesome,shame about the NZ price of the pods though, apple.co.nz shows
> them as being around 250 dollars when they are released.
>
> Bloody cool though.
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ]*On
> Behalf Of *Mary Otten
> *Sent:* Friday, 9 September 2016 5:30 AM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; VIPhone 'RobH. ' via <
> viph...@googlegroups.com >
> *Subject:* AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome
>
>
> *Here is some more on the air pods. They will work with your Mac or your
> iPad or other iPhones that are logged in to the same iCloud as your new
> iPhone  AirPods hands-on: They stayed in my ears and sounded awesome *Macworld
> /  Susie Ochs
>
>
> I didn’t want to like the AirPods , I
> really didn’t. But in the hands-on area after Apple’s iPhone 7 event on
> Wednesday, I found myself dancing along in spite of myself—and the AirPods
> stayed put, feeling surprisingly secure. With convvenient features on both
> the hardware and software sides, I have to admit that Apple’s
> totally-wireless AirPods kind of rocked my world.
>
> When they’re in your ears, the AirPods kind of look like the old wired
> EarPods that someone snipped the wires off of. The earbud part fills your
> ear just as before, and a plastic stem hangs down a bit below your earlobe.
> They’re the same general shape as the EarPods and made from the same hard
> white plastic.
>
> Now, that plastic has been a deal-breaker for me for years—I hate how
> normal EarPods feel iin my ears. They don’t seem like they’re going to
> stay put, and they simply fall out if I move my head too much. Even if they
> do stay in, after about a half hour, my ears just start to ache, although I
> don’t experience the same pain when using earbuds with silicone or foam
> tips. Since the AirPods look so similar, I expected them to feel the same
> too—and I’m surprised and happy to report that I was dead wroong.
>
> Not only did I dance, I headbanged. I shook my head side to side, I tossed
> my hair, I jogged in place, and I looked silly doing all of it. The AirPods
> stayed put, and they stayed loud. The music (more Sia, naturally) sounded
> full and lush and I couldn’t hear a single word anyone around me was
> saying, as if I was completely sealed off in a bubble of rock and roll.
> Pretty impressive.
>
> *For Apple devices only*
>
> The AirPods’ special features are pretty impressive too, even though
> that specialness means they only work with Apple devices. You don’t need
> a brand-new iPhone or Apple Watch to use them, but they only support Apple
> devices running the latest operating systems: iOS 10, macOS Sierra, and
> watchOS 3. The AirPods use Bluetooth, so you would think maybe there’d be
> a way to pair them to an Android phone or an iOS 8 device since those have
> Bluetooth too, but there’s no button on the AirPods to put them into
> pairing mode. We’ll test to confirm when we get review units, but it
> seems like the AirPods will only be “seen†by Apple devices.
>
>
> Susie Ochs
>
> When the AirPods are in your ears, your paired iPhone will play to them
> automatically. See the little AirPods icon?
>
> When you first flip open the glossy white carrying box—which looks like
> the most hhigh-tech pack of TicTacs ever—you’ll see a screen on your
> nnearby iPhone offering to pair. (That’s just the first time; you won’t
> have to do this every time you want to use the AirPods.) Once you’ve
> paired them to your iPhon

Re: VoiceOver Accessibility Issues for Blind Users in iOS App

[Kevin Chao]

I've 4 tiles and it's a pain to setup and difficult to use with VoiceOver.
TrackR is much more accessible with VO.

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 8:47 AM Andrew McKay  wrote:

> I have previously contacted Tile support numerous times about the poor
> accessibility in their app. After buying three tiles, it is rather
> disappointing the lack of care around this issue and I too will probably be
> forced to look elsewhere.
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Kevin Chao
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 3, 2016 11:33 AM
> *To:* Tile Customer Support ; macvisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: VoiceOver Accessibility Issues for Blind Users in iOS App
>
>
>
> I've observed same with Tiles and it's due to custom controls and not
> overwriting the UIAccessibilityLabel to a sensible string.
>
> I'm considering switching to TrackR, especially since there is ALexa skill
> integration.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:40 AM Jonathan Cohn 
> wrote:
>
> That sounds like they switched from a standard button to a custom widget.
> In which case, they need to adjust the Accessible Name. though it probably
> indicates that they have done additional actions with the widget that would
> need to be considered, probably with action a lot like the new Nearby
> Explorer app.
>
>  Exploer
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:24 AM Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have noticed over time that the Tile iOS app has become less and
> less VoiceOver accessible.
>
> The key issue I am having is each tile name (i.e. backpack, keys,
> etc.) is read by VoiceOver as:
> txt_tile_name
> txt_tile_name
> txt_tile_name
>
> Apple has specific programming guidelines for making iOS apps
> VoiceOver accessible:
> https://developer.apple.com/accessibility/ios
>
> Can you get in contact with your developers and engineering team on this?
>
> Thanks,
> Mika Pyyhkala
> @pyyhkala
>
> --
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> Visionaries list.
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Re: VoiceOver Accessibility Issues for Blind Users in iOS App

[Kevin Chao]

I've observed same with Tiles and it's due to custom controls and not
overwriting the UIAccessibilityLabel to a sensible string.
I'm considering switching to TrackR, especially since there is ALexa skill
integration.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:40 AM Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

> That sounds like they switched from a standard button to a custom widget.
> In which case, they need to adjust the Accessible Name. though it probably
> indicates that they have done additional actions with the widget that would
> need to be considered, probably with action a lot like the new Nearby
> Explorer app.
>  Exploer
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:24 AM Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have noticed over time that the Tile iOS app has become less and
>> less VoiceOver accessible.
>>
>> The key issue I am having is each tile name (i.e. backpack, keys,
>> etc.) is read by VoiceOver as:
>> txt_tile_name
>> txt_tile_name
>> txt_tile_name
>>
>> Apple has specific programming guidelines for making iOS apps
>> VoiceOver accessible:
>> https://developer.apple.com/accessibility/ios
>>
>> Can you get in contact with your developers and engineering team on this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mika Pyyhkala
>> @pyyhkala
>>
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Re: Using Apple TV the fourth generation without a TV

[Kevin Chao]

Yep, I can play Netflix, HBO GO, etc. using BLuetooth speakers

On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 8:23 PM Mary Otten  wrote:

> Kevin, just to be clear. You were saying that you can just send the audio
> output from your AppleTV fourth-generation to a pair of Bluetooth speakers,
> and all video plays fine. Including things like Netflix HBO, all the things
> that would have some  protection on them. They all play fine. That's really
> surprising but good.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 28, 2016, at 6:28 PM, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>
> I've it connected to Bluetooth speakers and it doesn't require TV to be ON.
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:40 AM Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:
>
>> HI Mary,
>>
>>  I know some sound systems now have an HDMI input which you can plug in
>> the likes of a blueray or I guess apple tv and then have another HDMI
>> output cable to your tv so that everything goes through the stereo first
>> before the tv,
>>
>>  Whether you can do this with the tv I can't say
>>
>> My apple tv 4 is only connected to my Samsung tv, where as with the apple
>> tv 2 I had an optical connector which allowed me to connect to my Logitech
>> stereo speakers without the tv and I could play videos / tv and music
>> through the sound system with out the tv screan active.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Thursday, 25 August 2016 12:30 PM
>> To: VIPhone 'RobH. ' via ;
>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; mac4thebl...@freelists.org
>> Subject: Using Apple TV the fourth generation without a TV
>>
>> Apple viz. recently published a podcast done by Lisa Sullenger on this
>> topic. She mentions a specific HDMI to audio converter that she used with
>> her stereo. The one thing she did not touch upon in her podcast has to do
>> with an issue that has been raised on these lists before regarding the
>> usability of this system with video content that is protected. I can't
>> remember the name of the specification or coding or whenever it is involved
>> that must be seen in order for the AppleTV to pick up the content.
>> Generally, if the AppleTV is not connected to an actual video output which
>> is actually turned on, you can't get a lot of this protected video content.
>> So I am wondering about this system with this particular converter. Has
>> anyone used it or any other converter connecting AppleTV fourth-generation
>> to a stereo with no TV present and still able to receive the full
>> complement of all the video channels, such as Netflix, HBO etc.
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
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Re: Using Apple TV the fourth generation without a TV

[Kevin Chao]

I've it connected to Bluetooth speakers and it doesn't require TV to be ON.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:40 AM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> HI Mary,
>
>  I know some sound systems now have an HDMI input which you can plug in
> the likes of a blueray or I guess apple tv and then have another HDMI
> output cable to your tv so that everything goes through the stereo first
> before the tv,
>
>  Whether you can do this with the tv I can't say
>
> My apple tv 4 is only connected to my Samsung tv, where as with the apple
> tv 2 I had an optical connector which allowed me to connect to my Logitech
> stereo speakers without the tv and I could play videos / tv and music
> through the sound system with out the tv screan active.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Thursday, 25 August 2016 12:30 PM
> To: VIPhone 'RobH. ' via ;
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; mac4thebl...@freelists.org
> Subject: Using Apple TV the fourth generation without a TV
>
> Apple viz. recently published a podcast done by Lisa Sullenger on this
> topic. She mentions a specific HDMI to audio converter that she used with
> her stereo. The one thing she did not touch upon in her podcast has to do
> with an issue that has been raised on these lists before regarding the
> usability of this system with video content that is protected. I can't
> remember the name of the specification or coding or whenever it is involved
> that must be seen in order for the AppleTV to pick up the content.
> Generally, if the AppleTV is not connected to an actual video output which
> is actually turned on, you can't get a lot of this protected video content.
> So I am wondering about this system with this particular converter. Has
> anyone used it or any other converter connecting AppleTV fourth-generation
> to a stereo with no TV present and still able to receive the full
> complement of all the video channels, such as Netflix, HBO etc.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: Trouble Logging into my Gmail Internet Account on Mac Air Keyboard

[Kevin Chao]

On Gmail.com, select sign-in, type username, select next, and type
password.

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 9:54 AM Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

> I believe you put your email address on the only, and then a second page
> appears with a password prompt. A few sites are doing this these days.
> Best wishes,
>
> Jonathan Cohn
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 11:35 AM Sharon Hooley 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to log into my gmail internet account on my Mac Air keyboard
>> with OS 10, but I don't see where to input my password.  How can I get to
>> it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sharon H.
>>
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Re: Java Applications Accessibility Issue

[Kevin Chao]

Yes, we reported both of these issues to Oracle last year, but no
resolution yet...
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 3:18 PM Chris Meredith  wrote:

> Hey all.
>
> Not sure if anyone can confirm this, but I seem to be hitting an issue
> with Java applications that use either the tree view (browser) or table
> controls.  Since my company is standardizing on JMeter, which uses a
> browser control to display test plans and a table to show test results,
> this is a problem, as VoiceOver seems to render these controls with no
> content.  So far, the only solution I’ve found is to run pretty much any
> Java app that uses these controls under a Windows VM.  Anyone else ever hit
> this issue?
>
> --
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A11y of HomeKit Accessories | AppleVis

[Kevin Chao]

http://www.applevis.com/forum/hardware-accessories/a11y-homekit-accessories

GIven in i/watch/tvOS 10, we no longer have to be concerned with
third-party HomeKit apps with varying-level of VoiceoVer accessibility.

I was wondering if there has been consideration for a repro/dir, where we
can submit, view, and comment on our accessibility experience of HomeKit
hardware accessories?

I could also see this forum being able to provide eyes-free tips and tricks
of setup and usage of HomeKit hardware accessories.

What do you think?

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Re: swift playgroupnd

[Kevin Chao]

Playground  is iPad iOS 10-only and is 100% VoiceoVer accessible.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 2:48 AM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Avid,
>
>
>
> Thanks for that, Might hve to install the beta to my iPad.
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *David Chittenden
> *Sent:* Thursday, 21 July 2016 10:03 PM
>
>
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: swift playgroupnd
>
>
>
> According to a blind programmer who is on the Swift Playground team, Swift
> Playground is fully accessible.
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 21 Jul 2016, at 20:59, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> Hi Donna,
>
>
>
> I didn’t know it was available yet.
>
>
>
> I’m keen to know how accessible it is before I go getting it.
>
>
>
> But very interested.
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Donna Goodin
> *Sent:* Thursday, 21 July 2016 1:46 AM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: swift playgroupnd
>
>
>
> I was actually hoping to buy it.  So I hope it does work on the iPhone,
> because I don't have an iPad.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Donna
>
> On Jul 20, 2016, at 2:21 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
>
>
> Donna I was just wondering that myself.
>
>
>
> My iPhone 6s+ is not much smaller than my iPad mini 4.
>
>
>
> Go figure.
>
>
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Donna Goodin
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 19 July 2016 11:36 PM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: swift playgroupnd
>
>
>
> Hi Alex,
>
>
>
> Does that mean that it cannot be run on an iPhone?
>
> thanks,
>
> Donna
>
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2016, at 5:50 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>
>
>
> The app will be available for everyone, for free, but it can only run on
> an iPad running iOS10. Right now, it's available for those running iOS10
> betas as part of their testing.
>
> On Jul 19, 2016, at 06:46, Ben J. Bloomgren 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Simon,
>
>
>
> As far as I can tell, it'll be available for everybody, being that it's
> supposed to be a helper for people who want to learn to program for Apple's
> apps.
>
>
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> On 7/19/2016 2:28, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>
> Hi List,
>
>
>
> I was just wondering about the swift Playground  dev app that is to be
> released some time this year.
>
>
>
> Is that to be available for everyone or only available for Developers?
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if its available yet or is it only currently in a dev or
> beta state
>
>
>
> Thanks for any information re this.
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Alex Hall
>
> mehg...@icloud.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Slack on iOS and Watch OS

[Kevin Chao]

Slack has made VO/a11y improvements in latest iOS app and are responding to
feedback in this channel.
https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/slack-a11y-feedback/p146876676102
On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 4:25 PM Kevin Chao  wrote:

> The mobile apps are more accessible and Web is mostly inaccessible.
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 6:42 PM Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
>
>> I head heard it was entirely inaccessible and that the vendor did not
>> have plans to make SLAC usable by the blind. Are there any on-line guides
>> for the blind on using slap with any environment?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 May 2016, at 20:14, Kevin Chao  wrote:
>>
>> I've used Slack on Watch and iOS?
>> Watch is allows reading mentions and messages with VoiceOver
>> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 4:48 AM Jenine Stanley 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is anyone successfully using Slack on iOS or Watch OS? I’m particularly
>>> interested in Watch OS as I’ve seen the VO focus issues on iOS. Would love
>>> to understand the app more and propose it for some work projects.
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: Looking for Slack feedback from voiceover users on OSX and IOS

[Kevin Chao]

Slack has made VO/a11y improvements in latest iOS app and are responding to
feedback in this channel.
https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/slack-a11y-feedback/p146876676102
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 4:48 AM michael babcock 
wrote:

> Just sent a message to:
> /feedback your feedback message here
> In any of the chat edit boxes and this will open a new support ticket.
> I just do find for “esc” and VO left from there, reads the messages
> backwards but works for me for now.
> Thanks for the tip about setting the modifier key to padlock, can I set an
> activity to switch to this when I’m in slack or should I maybe just make it
> a normal practice of using caps lock?
> If you press “option” first and hold it, then press “control” without
> letting option up, the VO keys work, but not the best solution.
>
> On Jul 16, 2016, at 10:06 PM, Chris Meredith  wrote:
>
> One thing that I’ve found helps with Slack is to set the VO modifiers to
> allow caps lock as an option.  My guess is that some sort of keyDown event
> gets fired whenever any key that would register does so (I.e. Option,
> particularly since it can be used to type extended characters), and pops
> focus into the input field.  Caps lock is handled entirely by the OS
> (illustrated nicely by how many hoops we have to jump through to pass that
> key to VMware Fusion), and is thus not intercepted by Slack.
> Find is your friend.  Search for “new messages since” to find the date of
> the last message, then search backward for that date to read what went on
> in your absence.  One thing I can’t seem to do is close the pop-up windows
> such as, for instance, the search box, short of closing and reopening the
> app.  If Slack are engaging in public discourse with their blind users, I’d
> love to chime in, since Slack seems to be part of my complete
> breakfast set of tools I need at my employer.
>
> On Jul 13, 2016, at 9:19 AM, michael babcock 
> wrote:
>
> So hears how I’m using the desktop app:
> #1, try not to tap “Option” (that jumps focus back to edit box). I know
> kinda hard when using voiceover…
> #2, use find for the text “esc” and that will take you to the end of the
> conversation (channel) your in.
> #3, use command+option+left or right to jump between conversations you’ve
> opened since that instance of the app has been running.
> Let me know if I can help any more :( and I hope they make it more
> accessible. Love the concept of it, and am actively using it with a VA out
> of India, so would love to have it working.
> VOIP quality IMO is fairly good.
>
> On Jul 13, 2016, at 2:29 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> Thanks Michael,
>
> I’ll go check this out , it might be worthwhile.
>
> If only the desktop apps were more accessible, I’ll probanly have to use
> my iPhone.
>
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *michael babcock
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 12 July 2016 5:05 PM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Looking for Slack feedback from voiceover users on OSX and
> IOS
>
> Simon:
> Thanks for your message.
> Slack has created a #a11y organization, and they seem to be making things
> better. I’ll post one of the messages I got from the team a few hours ago:
> "Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for coming back to me. Yes, there is an existing team that the
> accessibility community has created. This is a broad, public team on Slack
> with the goal of collaborating on accessibility solutions, technologies,
> etc. The current membership is already substantial and includes some of our
> engineers and folks from our accessibility team. Please feel free to share
> this with anyone who is interested.
>
> Here's the link to request an invite: http://web-a11y.herokuapp.com.
> “
> And this was a follow-up to this message:
> "*Bel* (Slack)
>
> Jul 9, 9:32 PM PDT
>
> Hey there Michael,
>
> Thanks for getting in touch! We would love to hear all your suggestions on
> how we might improve the user experience for blind users.
>
> Accessibility is something we are working very hard to improve and our
> dedicated accessibility team are currently working on more features for our
> vision-impaired users. Please do let us know what your initial thoughts are
> on your experience and I will get our team involved from this side too.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to offer your help and feedback on this
> Michael, your insights are really valuable to our development.
>
> Warmly,
>
> -Bel"
> Hit up @slackhq
> And type
> /feedback your feedback here
> In any of the edit boxes on slack
> Note: in desktop app on Mac, hitting the option key seems to jump focus
> back to the edit box, kinda makes things hard when using voiceover :)
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2016, at 12:02 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for this, I will definitely be looking into this.
>
> We’ve just started using slack at work for our messaging system as it’s
> not hosted locally therefore if systems go down we can still communicate
>

Re: IOS 10 beta

[Kevin Chao]

www.applevis.com has great forums discussing the public betas and VoiceOver.

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 10:09 AM Scott Granados  wrote:

> I disagree, being that our needs are so under represented sometimes do the
> small size of our community I think it’s important to discuss openly,
> especially as concerned directly to Voice Over.  The call routing issue
> being at the top of the list for example since it directly impacts us all
> as iPhone users, unique to our needs and actively being addressed in the
> Beta.  Public 4 for example of the current train breaking call routing
> after it was fixed in 3 and seeming better in the recent release of 5.
> ETc.  Others have safari rendering concerns, performance, and so forth.
> Many on this list also participate.  I think we have a unique group here
> with a lot of built in skills that benefit from open discussion again of
> public things.  I’m on the same page with you on the developer releases and
> they should remain under wraps for many of the reasons you state as well as
> for Apple’s protection of their intellectual property.  Once it’s n the
> wild and publicly available though I think we have more to gain than lose
> by it’s discussion.  No matter my thoughts though, It’s Mark and Kara’s
> list so I will of course honor their wishes even though I strongly disagree
> with them.
>
> You also have raised good points, I don’t think they apply in this case
> but they were as always well stated.  Just my $.02
>
>
>
> On Jul 10, 2016, at 12:30 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>
> Scott,
>   Not to play devil's advocate (why the devil..) but one very good reason
> for this ruling is to reduce anxiety and endless questions about new
> releases Discussing bugs in beta software on a mailing list like this one
> is counter productive especially for those of us who are not participating
> in a beta program. The ruling would also preclude some from stating
> disclaimers that he/she will not openly discuss issues in beta software.
>
>   If there is a mailing list for beta testers, that is where to take it.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 7/10/2016 8:34 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
> Sorry, I’ll believe the lawyers from Morrison and Foerster before Mark
> and Kara.:)  Public means public meaning no presumption of privacy.  And
> I’ve read and had evaluated both agreements, the Developer version is
> far more restrictive and I was specifically advised against signing it
> so never participated in that program.  I’m advised both on my own dime
> and through the legal department at my employer that the public beta is
> a different animal.  But if the moderators wish to be their restrictive
> selves and stifle legal discussions that will benefit our community it’s
> their list.
> However, I have no such prohibition on my lists so anyone interested in
> an open discussion about beta software may migrate there with out fear
> of retribution for their comments.  (public betas of software only
> please, the developer closed stuff needs to stay in approved forums and
> channels.
>
> On Jul 10, 2016, at 12:59 AM, Shawn Krasniuk  > wrote:
>
> Scott, even though it's a public beta, the NDA is still in effect.
> Cara and Mark both say this. Mark or Cara, if you want to take it from
> here, go ahead.
>
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com  >
>
> On Jul 9, 2016, at 8:09 PM, Scott Granados  > wrote:
>
> Ray, public beta buddy, has nothing to do with non disclosure.
>
> Public being the key word here.
>
> Discuss away, it’s assumed you will.
>
> On Jul 9, 2016, at 8:05 AM, Ray Foret jr  > wrote:
>
> Simon, my good sir, please allow me to gently remind you that we are
> strictly forbidden from discussing what we are finding out in the
> beta testing of IOS10.  This pertains both to developer beta as well
> as the public beta.  Bear in mind that the public beta is public
> strictly in the sence that the public has access to it without
> paying a developer fee:  but, open discussion of findings is
> strictly forbidden.
>
>
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the
> blind built-in
>
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV
> user!
>
> On Jul 9, 2016, at 5:06 AM, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
>
> Hi List folks,
>
> Ok so today I thought I’d be crazier than usual and I updated to
> the IOS 10 beta release.
>
> Does anyone know of any yet written documentation on the new
> features in IOS 10, I’ve found a few but others are hiding from me.
>
> The first one that really got me was iMessage being turned off
> after updating.
>
> But it definitely seems faster especially when se

Re: Thank you Tim

[Kevin Chao]

NArrator in WIn10 Anniversary update will work better with Edge/Cortana and
provide scanning mode with orgonomic keybindings, but nothing for system
recovery/restore.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:10 AM Scott Granados  wrote:

> Just to add a little to this, far be it for me to speak in Microsoft’s
> behalf but I think the comments about Microsoft dropping the ball on
> accessibility are a little untrue as I understand them.
>
> First, Microsoft has always been an employer of blind engineers and staff
> so let’s give them some credit there.  I believe there are some Microsoft
> folks on list, I know Apple is represented but I think MS is as well.  If
> not here then certainly on the blind sysadmins list and the android list to
> name a few.
> Next, Microsoft was pressured to not include a viable screen
> reader.  Let’s remember that around the time of the Henter Joyce to Freedom
> Scientific transition Ted Henter paid the NFB a sizable amount of money
> (north of 7 figures) to buy their loyalty.  Almost immediately the NFB
> started protesting on Microsoft’s door against the inclusion of a screen
> reader.  Many hit pieces were written as well as direct on site pressure to
> stop all development.  Microsoft caved (that’s their responsibility) to
> this pressure and stopped development.  Essentially, the NFB’s public
> policy and position was bought off for the purposes of enriching Ted Henter
> and the freedom scientific mob.
> Let’s remember that the NFB wrote similar hit pieces and attempted
> the same action against Apple.  Luckily, Steve was a focused hard you know
> what who did the right thing and dismissed them completely.  We really
> don’t know what if any thing Steve knew about it but we do know that Apple
> did not cave and continued with Voice Over even today.  These hit pieces
> went on and on clearly demonstrating over time the authors hadn’t even used
> a Mac or if they had it was a different screen reader from years earlier.
> All hell broke loose when the iPhone was released and Apple started
> scooping up the blind community.  The flood of hit pieces increased until
> some time later when it was obvious that the NFB’s position was largely
> being ignored outside their circles.  Unfortunately, their circles in
> combination with HJ payoffs have had exclusivity deals in place with many
> state governments and adaptive technology so called experts.  Yet Apple
> persisted and more and more people migrated away from the expensive
> software management agreements and additional cost of screen readers.
> Thankfully also free options on the windows and linux side started to
> evolve and even there Freedom scientific applied legal and strong arm
> tactics to force their product in the market not based on quality but based
> on heavy handed self interest at our community’s expense.  This thankfully
> is starting to fade.  I sincerely hope Martin is right about a decent built
> in screen reader being included as of 08/02/2016.  Not having a built in
> screen reader that has access to the whole product life cycle is a major
> job impediment for our community.  As Simon mentioned it requires sited
> help or other gymnastics to install a version of windows where no such
> limitations exist in the Apple world or Linux world.  If true, this could
> be a real help to folks in the IT space so I hope this is true as I know a
> lot of admins who are held back professionally by this limitation
> So Martin, I share your skepticism about Microsoft and they have
> and continue to do things I have issues with but in this case I don’t think
> they were entirely responsible.  We can argue they shouldn’t have caved but
> it’s understandable why they did.  I just thought it’s worth presenting a
> little of the background for a fair representation of the complex and many
> times ethically challenged history of screen reading technology.  Let the
> bashing continue and here’s hoping the next iteration of narrator is a step
> forward.
>
> I like your line of questioning and balanced responses btw.
>
>
> > On Jul 5, 2016, at 7:47 AM, Martin Brown 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Tim.
> > Thank you for that very constructive email. As I said in my previous
> post, I
> > find the folks on this list very knowledgeable and helpful about all
> things
> > Mac. On  your suggestion about the tab setting in the advanced window of
> > Safari, that is, however, already checked.
> > I am a little surprised to hear that a lot of Mac users prefer the
> grouping
> > method over that of DOM. I mostly use the latter of these methods.
> Indeed, I
> > find the grouping method of navigating a web site such as Amazon.co.uk a
> > little more problematic than using the DOM method. However, since my
> little
> > rant, I have tried the Grouping method on the Soap Kitchen and have found
> > that at least to make the site a lot more usable. At least Voiceover
> didn't
> > go into a tail spin. On the point about deleting bookmarks...well

Re: Ad displayed. on youtube

[Kevin Chao]

URL and repro steps?
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 2:15 PM Jeffrey Shockley 
wrote:

> Hello,
> It’s saying this well, because small adds are displayed on the page while
> the video plays, even after the first video ad has played. So, this isn’t
> really a bug.
> Hope this helps,
> Jeffrey
> > On Jul 5, 2016, at 5:01 PM, Dionipher Herrera 
> wrote:
> >
> > it’s always saying Ad displayed. when opening videos on youtube on
> safari on mac now.. can somebody report this. i am now contacting
> applesupport on twitter. Thanks
> >
> > --
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Re: Disappointed with Voiceover

[Kevin Chao]

Breakages in El Capitan exist in Sierra
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 1:32 PM matthew dyer 
wrote:

> Hi all.
>
>
> I have been using moos since lepord and rite now in elcapiton the only
> problem I have is with how mail works with gmail.  I find that mail just
> doesn't sync with gmail as well.  Any one know they best way to handle
> gmail with the mail app?  Should the all mail be hidon or not in gmail
> settings.  I find that for sone reason that gmail syncing just doesn't
> keep up with the way I delete mail in the mail app,.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
>
> On 07/05/2016 11:15 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> > hi Saqib,
> >
> > What exactly is happening when your Mail is freezing up.  Keyboard not
> responsive?  Mail saying "busy, busy" all the time?  Focus lost?  I'm not
> experiencing any Mail issues, so am attempting to assist.  Really, there's
> no issues bug-wise with Mail as far as I'm aware, so this may be some other
> issue related to VO, Mail settings, Account settings etc.
> >
> > Later...
> >
> > Tim Kilburn
> > Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> >
> > On Jul 5, 2016, at 06:47, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Martain. I’m beginning to agree with you! My keyboard always freezes
> up in the mail client and I’m surprised that I’m replying to this message
> without another major freeze. After talking to Apple support and resetting
> the machine 3 times! My only option is to go out and buy an ethernet cable
> and do a full re-install of the OS. Oh do I regret getting a Mac.
> >> On 4 Jul 2016, at 13:13, Martin Brown  wrote:
> >>
> >> My first encounter with Voiceover was back in the Snow Leopard days,
> and boy
> >> was I impressed with the level of commitment by Apple to its screen
> reader.
> >> It was back then I was enthusiastic about learning as much as I could
> about
> >> this very different way of accessing a computer. It was quite a struggle
> >> having come from the Windows environment, but I persevered and most of
> what
> >> I know about interacting with my Mac goes back to those days. Sadly, I
> feel
> >> it has been down hill as far as building upon what made Voiceover a
> great
> >> solution to help a blind person do what needs to be done to get the
> most and
> >> the best out of their Mac.
> >>
> >> In the past few years I only drop in occasionally to see if things are
> >> getting better with what used to be a great product only to find that
> things
> >> are no better, and sometimes even worse. We are now some nine months
> into
> >> the release of El Capitan, and still there are bugs that should have
> been
> >> sorted before the software was even out the door. I am not one of those
> >> people who expect everything to always work perfectly from day one. Nor
> do I
> >> expect that sometimes one has to think outside the box when working with
> >> energised silicone chips, but when doing basic tasks such as deleting a
> web
> >> site from favourites, the task should be simple and take seconds to
> perform.
> >> Oh boy, not on this Mac.
> >>
> >> And then there's Safari. When it works it's good, but when it doesn't it
> >> would drive a Zen master towards the Prozac shelf. On some sites its
> fine,
> >> on others it's rickety, while on others it quite simply refuses to
> work. An
> >> example of the latter is the Soap Kitchen, a company based in the United
> >> Kingdom. It was so bad I was on the verge of pressing the off switch to
> get
> >> out of the mess. The big problem with the Mac is, if Voiceover is
> playing up
> >> then you're basically stuffed. On a Windows machine, what one screen
> reader
> >> doesn't do another might. I know there are very dedicated and able
> users of
> >> Voiceover on this list who may take offence to an interloper such as
> myself
> >> for daring to criticise Apple for its efforts. However, I feel if El
> Capitan
> >> is the best a multibillion company can do for its disabled customers,
> then
> >> give me Windows any day where I have to pay for a more reliable screen
> >> reader. Free is not always best, and Voiceover is testimony to that.
> >>
> >> In the near future, it is rumoured, that Microsoft will provide a screen
> >> reader worthy of that label. I am not holding my breath for that to
> become a
> >> reality. However, let's assume that Microsoft finally gets a moral
> >> conscience and does what it should have done years ago and enables
> people
> >> who are blind to access their product out of the box. If it is as
> bug-ridden
> >> as Voiceover is, then I will still be happy to pay for a better
> experience.
> >> Despite my best efforts with the Mac, my productivity suffers badly
> using
> >> Voiceover.
> >>
> >> However, all is not lost. After all we will soon be getting a new and
> >> supposedly better operating system from the Gods at Apple. Perhaps I
> will
> >> give it a go after a nine month period in the hope that Apple has once
> more
> >> taken its commitment to accessibility back on to a more serious
> footing. As
> >> with Microsoft, howev

Re: El Capitan

[Kevin Chao]

These are VoiceOver regressions introduced in El Capitan and have not been
resolved in Sierra. I.E. macOS-errors and not user...
On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 2:45 PM Tim Kilburn  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Alternatively, you can use the Window Chooser, VO-f2-f2 to bring focus to
> the App Store window.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Jul 3, 2016, at 15:29, E.T.  wrote:
>
>   For the app store issue, let it load and if it seems not to load,
> command tab to another app then command tab back to the app store again for
> now.
>
>   Text entry not being spoken in the search box, that I see. Arrow back
> and forth to hear what was entered. Don't know if there is a work around
> for this one.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 7/3/2016 4:35 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > I have just upgraded from Yosemite to El Capitan, and although it is a
> bit
> > early to make a judgement on the wisdom of my decision, I have noticed
> that
> > a loss of focus does give me some concerns. For example, when I go to the
> > App Store, I have to do all sorts of gymnastics in order to navigate the
> > page and get feedback from Voiceover. Plus, when typing in the search
> field
> > on said page, Voiceover does not echo back what I am entering even though
> > the characters are being entered faithfully. Is this an issue that other
> > list members are having, and if so, is there a good work around.
> >
> > As mentioned above, I upgraded my system rather than doing a clean
> install.
> > I am a very light user of my Mac and therefore felt that such a step was
> > unnecessary, at least until the next release of the operating system
> later
> > this year. I would certainly be interested in what the more experienced
> > users on this list think before doing a clean install.
> > Martin
> >
>
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Re: Adobe Flash player and Mac

[Kevin Chao]

Chrome has flash built-inn, so you may have better luck.

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 6:37 AM Jeffrey Shockley 
wrote:

> Hello,
> You can get Flash Player for Mac by typing in get.adobe.com/flashplayer
> in Safari.
> While it can be installed, VoiceOver can’t interact with Flash content
> sadly.
> Hope this helps,
> Jeffrey
> > On Jun 26, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Jenine Stanley 
> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I
> > m trying to complete an on-line course that says I must have Adobe Flash
> player installed and working. I’m using an iMac 2014 running El Cap. I
> can’t get past this point in the course without being able to use Flash.
> >
> > Other parts of the course are totally inaccessible but this flash thing
> is the last straw. So, can I indeed install flash on the Mac, and if I can,
> will it work with VO?
> >
> > I’m beyond frustrated.
> > Jenine Stanley
> > dragonwalke...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
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Re: 9to5Mac: macOS Sierra beta lets Mac users rearrange third-party menu bar extras

[Kevin Chao]

WOnder how this is to be done with VoiceOver/keyboard?

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 7:22 PM Nancy Badger  wrote:

>
> *macOS Sierra beta lets Mac users rearrange third-party menu bar extras*
> 9to5Mac
>
> It's been a pain-point for some Mac users for a while now: the inability
> to rearrange third-party menu bar extras. Sure, it's been possible to move
> around stock menu bar extras by simply holding the Command key while
> dragging the icon, but third-party icons are no longer off limits. Indeed,
> the macOS Sierra beta makes it possible... Read the full story
> 
>
> Shared from Apple News 
>
>
> Nancy Badger, Ph.D
> Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
> UT Chattanooga
> Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.
>
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Re: A Comment on the Mac OS Sierra Native Messaging App

[Kevin Chao]

FaceTime and iMessage are not being used in education or work...

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 3:12 PM Scott Granados  wrote:

> I have to say I like the way facetime is being wrapped in to the phone
> networks so you have PSTN access as well as the video calling and direct
> audio calling.  Facetime and imessage are a set of aplications that I think
> Apple is doing interesting things with.  Much cleaner and easier to use
> than a skype say or shudder Microsoft link which was the worst piece of
> crapware I’ve evern been forced to use.  Maybe the Mac implementation is
> lacking but still.
>
>
> On 6/15/16, 7:13 PM, "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf of listse...@me.com> wrote:
>
> To be sure, iMessage and FaceTime’s exclusivity to iPhone has been very
> helpful for me, as a simple way of filtering out the nonsense, but given
> that Jobs promised this stuff would be open, I can’t help but agree.
> Interoperability is always for the better.
>
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Re: Xcode and the new upcomming free app.

[Kevin Chao]

I answered if Swift Playgrounds is accessible in:
http://applevis.com/forum/ios-ios-app-discussion/will-apples-new-swift-playgrounds-app-be-accessible-voiceover-users

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 2:01 AM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Yeah that sounds right,
>
>  And the chick demonstrating it was using an iPad I believe to write her
> code.
>
>   I hope it will be accessible on all OS platforms.
>
>  I'd like to start playing around with x code.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 June 2016 11:02 AM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Xcode and the new upcomming free app.
>
> Hi!
> I heard something about a new free app that could help people learn Xcode.
> Was it swift playground they call it?
> I didn’t watch the wdc because there was a Football game at the same time.
> But i read about it on the applevis homepage.
> So what i wonder if what you all think about that?
> Is it a good way of taking care of such things or is there a better place
> to learn swift?
> Thanks in advance./A
>
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Re: any thoughts on Mac OS Sierra?

[Kevin Chao]

I absolutely agree to recommendation of Chromebook. The rewrite to
ChromeVOx (Next) is absolutely wonderful.
I've been using ChromeVox Next on chromeOS M53 on a Pixel 2 as my primary
machine. FOr web app interaction, it's far better than what I've
experienced on Windows and Mac screen readers.

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 2:30 AM Simon Fogarty  wrote:

> Hey Chris,
>
>  For a simple computer option what about the Chrome Book?
>
>  It's a cheap option here in NZ
> Tell them to have a look at them.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2016 4:13 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: any thoughts on Mac OS Sierra?
>
> I suspect the Mac v. Win population numbers are driven by bulk
> institutional purchases. While there are a few all-Mac shops there are many
> more all-Windows shops. I was just at a PTA meeting at my kids elementary
> school last night where they were going to help fund buying
> 60 computers for the school. Of course I would love for them to be Macs
> but I also understand how painful it would be to integrate/support them in
> an otherwise all Windows place. Plus they were $400 a pop with all the apps
> installed. For generic web surfing and wordprocessing boxes that little
> kids are going to beat up, do you really want to put pearls before swine?
> You won't find wood fired chestnut pancakes or pasta ncasciata in the
> school cafeteria either. For those who have thought about it and get to
> choose, the Mac is a compelling solution.
>
> CB
>
> On 6/15/16 10:09 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> > No need for a sick bag here, I’m pretty much in agreement with you.
> >
> > Interesting you mentioned Woz.  Oh how I wish his influence has
> persisted.  Not to date myself to heavily here but I was a huge fan of the
> Apple 2 architecture.  I cut my teeth on that architecture.  I remember
> being a wee sprout saving and saving and saving for almost a year working
> random odd family jobs and such to raise the 3500 US I needed to buy the
> setup I wanted.  That’s when computing was still fun.  Ah the things I did
> with my Apple Cat modem.  (I would like to personally thank who ever
> thought it was a good idea to include a full function tone generator, voice
> synthesizer, DTMF decoder, sampler and expansion capabilities on a modem
> and the FBI would not like to thank you but that’s for another list)  The
> point is, that was solid thinking I coul get behind.  The battle between
> the Steves for the number of expansion slots, the great built in language
> (Apple Soft), and on and on and on.  Woz was definitely more on the
> openness side and so am I so I can see your hope that he would rise again
> although I’m not betting on it.
> >   I had the privilege of meeting him a few times once at a very
> small Scotch and Cigar function with maybe 25 people.  Very grounded,
> friendly, unassuming guy, totally a geeky engineer which I totally dig.
> Funny how opposite the two Steves were.
> >
> > I hope what you say comes to pass in that at least something will
> persist on the notebook side.
> >
> > I’m a little surprised of the downfall of the mac only because of how
> many are out there now.  Up here anyway, every Starbucks is full of people
> on Macs, huge employers are all Mac now including Fidelity and Thomson
> International, and since about 2013 or so all the gigs I’ve worked on were
> Mac shops not by choice but by luck.  With such a hold on laptops
> especially I’d think they would like to keep that but I fear your right.
> The cool enhanced Unix environment is slowly being squeezed.  I wonder if
> there will be a day where terminal isn’t included with the Mac.  I believe
> that would be the day I go elsewhere.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/15/16, 6:00 AM, "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf of listse...@me.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Rant ahead; get your sick bags handy. :)
> >>
> >> Honestly, I’d be fine with trying out a giant iPad for my daily work,
> if Apple were honest in acknowledging their estrangement from the Mac as a
> proper workstation OS with proper character and robustness, and were
> instead committed  to fully transitioning to iOS for everything, because a
> workstation OS is something I believe a certain class of computer users
> (including me and probably you, Scott, as well) really need.  A commenter
> on OSXDaily ( obsolete name as of now :) ) by the name of Steve Steele (
> awesome name :) ) sums it up very well:
> >>
> >>> I hate that Apple has taken OS X from being a super cool and modern
> UNIX workstation that started life powering Job’s NeXT Cubes, and turned it
> into a candy colored silly sidekick to iOS.
> >>>
> >>> For a few glorious years we had Steve Jobs wanting revenge on the tech
> world, and OS X was his centerpiece.
> >>>
> >>> Now we have Tim Cook’s macOS.
> >>>
> >>> I say off with his head and the rest of the focus group