subject:"Re\: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac"

Thank  you I know this but the trying to stop the thread and it not stopping 
has lost us some really great people.

 And that F's me off to the max.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 6:26 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Simon,
You are not  the reason Tim and others chose to depart.
Kare



On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote:

> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>
> That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>
>
> Simon F
>
>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io<http://Groups.io> email list, I am not aware of a way to 
> mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
>
> - Brad -
>
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
> mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone.
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>
> Later…
>
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> email to 
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F487E32A-BF59-4935-BE27-5CEF3389F8EC%40swbell.net<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F487E32A-BF59-4935-BE27-5CEF3389F8EC%40swbell.net?utm_medium=email_source=footer>.
>
> -- 
>

RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Hi john,

Have you looked at Microsoft edge?

And yes I'm serious, edge is now out for mac OS as well as windows.

Check it out as it's quite a nice browser so far.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of John Panarese
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 5:35 AM
To: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

  It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.



Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT 
>> PROFESSIONAL and Trainer AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Here it is John.
>>> 
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
>>> From: Mike Arrigo 
>>> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support 
>>> in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great 
>>> start.
>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-comi
>>> ng-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/868175b1-fc49-ce04-15ce-a60593e298e0%40icloud.com.
>>> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Vision

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Im still using firefox 47, it disabled extensions etc without warning.  I 
keep it as a back upto chrome, and also to be login work related vs 
personal logins etc

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 11:32:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan Cohn wrote:
>
> Hello Kar: 
> Firefox was unusable with any screen reader from when they introduced 
> multi-process mode until Firefox 60. Firefox 60 has a special plugin that 
> recognizes a screen reader is present and disabled a couple of options deep 
> in Firefox settings area. The Current version of Firefox is somewhere 
> around 77. On the otherhand, for the Macintosh Mozilla got Firefox to read 
> focusable items and then did nothing for quite some time.  I believe 
> initially that Mozilla was hoping that Apple would create a iAccessible2 to 
> VoiceOver bridge so that the ScreenReader API could be the same for all 
> platforms. I know I read something like this about 6 years ago, but don’t 
> count my words as Gospel. 
> — Hmm — Just have to add, I am not catholic or even Christian — (This is 
> for Ray ) 
>
>
>
> > On Jun 30, 2020, at 4:35 PM, Karen Lewellen  > wrote: 
> > 
> > granted  I am not overly objective, but issues for jaws seem, at least 
> to me,  more sensible than  with the mac. 
> > Speaking personally, and not fully from first hand experience, 
> Voiceover's built in aspect seems easier to work with than Jaws 
> often-i-hear. flakiness. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote: 
> > 
> >> Firefox was also inaccessible to jaws users for a while as well. 
> >> 
> >> I can only assume that it's accessibility is coming back as well. 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: macvisi...@googlegroups.com  <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2020 4:55 AM 
> >> To: macvisi...@googlegroups.com  
> >> Subject: RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac 
> >> 
> >> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up? 
> >> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with 
> Firefox  was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a 
> Linux tool I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with 
> the mac. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> Just Wonderin: 
> >>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows 
> >>> CounterPart & I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The 
> MAC? 
> >>> 
> >>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track 
> >>> 
> >>> Blessin'sAgain! 
> >>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote: 
> >>>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it! 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -Original Message- 
> >>>> From: macvisi...@googlegroups.com  
> >>>> > On Behalf Of alia 
> robinson 
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM 
> >>>> To: macvisi...@googlegroups.com  
> >>>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac 
> >>>> 
> >>>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be 
> >>>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off 
> >>>> alex jones. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL 
> >>>> > wrote: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Amen Ray! 
> >>>> 
> >>>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon 
> attack" 
> >>>> is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam! 
> >>>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to 
> >>>> continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black 
> lives! 
> >>>> May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're 
> >>>> being fed is controlled by "6 corporations" 
> >>>> Thats called a monopoly! 
> >>>> Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government. 
> >>>> It aint gonna happen guys! 
> >>>> Just watch! 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -- 
> >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>>> Visionaries list. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
> >>>> or if you fe

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

agree:

learn unconscious bias, many training programs 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscious_bias_training and culture of care 
https://www.slideshare.net/evgrace82/culture-care-theory


On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 4:51:02 PM UTC-4, Simon A Fogarty wrote:
>
> I don’t think we need this on this list guys!
>
>  
>
> There is enough racial inequality on the planet already and we all know of 
> the situation of things in the USA currently,
>
>  
>
> Rather than signatures such as this we would be better off putting gour 
> feelings in to writing to the powers that be or into the so called peaceful 
> protests.
>
>  
>
> I’m totally against how those aftrican americans have been treated and 
> agree that black lives do matter,
>
> But I believe even more that All Lives Matterr and that is more the point 
> that should be pushed.
>
> *From:* macvisi...@googlegroups.com  <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > *On Behalf Of *alia robinson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 1 July 2020 2:36 AM
> *To:* macvisi...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>
>  
>
> when you are held down by the neck by a racist cop, you can talk until 
> then shut up! there is absolutely no comparison *at* all, and whites have 
> no clue. how absolutely and totally disgusting. white male privelege is 
> real people. you don’t have to stand up for yourself. society does it for 
> you! 
>
>  
>
> Alia
>
>  
>
> On Jun 30, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>  
>
> Hi,
>
>  
>
> Well, I thought that the quote could be taken a few directions and hoped 
> that it wasn't as inappropriate as it could be.  But, from this response, I 
> agree that it is over the top and out of line.  Very disappointed indeed.
>
>  
>
> Later...
>
>  
>
>
> Tim Kilburn
>
> Jamf Certified Tech
>
> Apple Teacher
>
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
>  
>
> On Jun 30, 2020, at 04:57, Raymond Foret Jr  > wrote:
>
>  
>
> Just the truth.  I’m sick and tired of people on my side telling us we 
> can’t stand up for it but BLM can stand up for theirs’.  MO MORE!
>
>  
>
>  
>
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
>
>  
>
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
> blind:
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
>  
>
> On Jun 29, 2020, at 11:27 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>  
>
> Raymond,
>   Isn't that quote of yours a bit over the top and offensive?
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancien...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
>
> On 6/29/2020 8:24 PM, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:
>
> I very much doubt my current Mac will support this so I’ll need to get a 
> new one next year.  Maybe I should wait till I can get a maxed out Mac mini 
> with the new Apple chip set.
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
> blind:
> Sincerely,
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:29 PM, Mike Arrigo  
> >> wrote:
>
> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a 
> great start.
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at cara...@caraquinn.com 
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net
> .
>
> -- 
> The fol

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

don't get fooled by trumps outrage of China, it was good enought for 
Kushner to have busniness dealings for 1.2B yeah Billions for 666 5th ave, 
until the feds were investingating because it was deal with Insurance 
company that was owned by chinese gov.. so there is motive  here folks.

if ref to your so called WMD:  For the USA,
China is not responsible for not having USA factories making N95 masks on 
USA lands
China is not responsible that 3M has monopoly on N95
China is not respossible for the lockdown delays
China is not responsible for nursing homes allowing visitors
China is not responsible for having people with symptoms not checked at 
health care facilities
China is not responsible for the hoarding and price gouching of PPE 
equipment
China is not responsible for elimination of the pandemic team
China is not responsible for only labs corporations, like Quest Diag and 
Lab Corp only ones to evaluate tests , thus why are there not STATE and 
COUNTY labs
China is not responsible for not having field hosptials
China is not responsible for not responsible for no antibodies testing at 
ALL states and ALL hosptials for ALL citizens

finally Trumps resume:
BY"Michael Sweenie-Lane TRUMP COVID-19 TIME±LINE
For the record:
Dec 18th - House Impeaches Trump
Jan 8th - First CDC warning
Jan 9th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 14th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 16h - House sends impeachment articles to Senate
Jan 18th - Trump golfs
Jan 19th - Trump golfs
Jan 20th - first case of corona virus in the US, Washington State.
Jan 22nd - “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in 
from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Jan- 23rd- Trump received CV19 briefing. He was informed it would spread 
globally.
Jan-28th- Trump Received another CV19 and again was informed it was indeed 
spreading globally.
Jan 28th - Trump goes to campaign rally
Jan 30th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 1st - Trump golfs
Feb 2nd - “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."
Feb 5th - Senate votes to acquit. Then takes a five-day weekend.
Feb 10th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 12th - Dow Jones closes at an all time high of 29,551.42
Feb 15h - Trump golfs
Feb 19th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 20th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 21st - Trump campaign rally
Feb 24th - “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock 
Market starting to look very good to me!”
Feb 25h - “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling 
Coronavirus.”
Feb 25h - “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have 
studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
Feb 26th - “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be 
down to close to zero.”
Feb 26th - “We're going very substantially down, not up.” Also "This is a 
flu. This is like a flu"; "Now, you treat this like a flu"; "It's a little 
like the regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have 
a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
Feb 28th - “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, 
elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like 
this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
Feb 28th - Trump campaign rally
March 2nd - “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have 
an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2nd - “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things 
are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get 
better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of 
them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5th - “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5th - “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 
deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6th - “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at 
keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6th - “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test 
gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all 
perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? 
This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6th - “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that 
I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much 
about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that 
instead of running for president.”
March 6th - “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship 
that wasn't our fault.”
March 7th - Trump golfs
March 8th - Trump golfs
March 8th - “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the 
White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9th - “This blindsided the world.”
March 13th - [Declared state of emergency]
March 17th - “This is a

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

That's my concern is if I delete / block the thread I'll miss good information 
but will still get rid of the crap.



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 2:23 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Blocking addresses is one way but does not solve it completely. 
Perhaps deleting a thread without reading it.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/1/2020 11:08 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io <http://Groups.io> email list, I am not aware of a 
> way to mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from 
> the list.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  <mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as 
> opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. 
> I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what 
> I’ve seen here, and to those who were supportive you rock. to people 
> like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of a future world where 
> these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive 
> bigotry.  I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would 
> prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I 
> am unsubscribing from this list.
> 
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
> at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn
> - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A45291C-2595-4DFD-AC
> A0-E9DC64A87AE2%40gmail.com 
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A45291C-2595-4DFD-ACA0-E9DC64A87AE2%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I will stick up for injustice. remember native americans were the first 
here everyone else is a product of immigration.   Right matters, justice 
matters.
as for BLM: Then clean up your precinct, kick out the bad apples, if you 
dont then youre enablers and just as bad, silence is agreement , make the 
changes then. Shape up or Ship out, cops are not judge and jury


On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 6:57:43 AM UTC-4, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>
> Just the truth.  I’m sick and tired of people on my side telling us we 
> can’t stand up for it but BLM can stand up for theirs’.  MO MORE!
>
>
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
>
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
> blind:
>
> Sincerely,
>
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
> On Jun 29, 2020, at 11:27 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> Raymond,
>   Isn't that quote of yours a bit over the top and offensive?
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancien...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
>
> On 6/29/2020 8:24 PM, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:
>
> I very much doubt my current Mac will support this so I’ll need to get a 
> new one next year.  Maybe I should wait till I can get a maxed out Mac mini 
> with the new Apple chip set.
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
> blind:
> Sincerely,
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:29 PM, Mike Arrigo  
> >> wrote:
>
> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a 
> great start.
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>
> -- 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Phil Halton

Dear Petrus, I didn’t chase anybody off the list or make them change their 
signature. I simply said that it was driving me crazy that I was hearing his 
name repeated twice and I couldn’t figure out how to make it stop. It was 
nothing racist about it. it had nothing to do with Remi’s ethnicity. That is in 
your mind, not in mine. if you’re looking for a racist to hate then you’re 
going to have to look elsewhere because it ain’t me. maybe I am a hypocrite. 
that wouldn’t exactly be a rare sight in this world now would it. I think we 
should do what  The moderatorsuggested and just drop it. if you are willing 
then so am I.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Jul 2, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Petrus Tuerlings  wrote:
> 
> I’m sorry Phill,
> But your Argument would hold more value if you weren’t guilty of the same 
> thing. You have the nerve to talk about freedom of speech and the right to 
> have what ever signature you want. But you were quite happy to make a 
> perfectly decent gentlemen delete his actual name that was spelt out in the  
> arabic alphabet and it offended your sensitive little ears. I know you 
> blocked him but you still had to speak your disapproval of someone using 
> their own name publicly. And it is his identity  and I know whoo I’d rather 
> be friends with if I ever got to meet any one of you. . 
> 
>> On 2/07/2020, at 13:01, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
>> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and 
>> he’s from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three 
>> things are terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature 
>> when we are exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I 
>> don’t like hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he 
>> believes, but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to 
>> shut up or wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One 
>> of the main reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so 
>> we could speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you 
>> love conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
 On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
 
 What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
 &
 I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
 
 All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
 
 MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
 ThisThread
 
 
 At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
 other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, 
 no thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
 
 On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
 
 Don'tThink:
 There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
 Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
 
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries

   I did install it yesterday but haven't gotten into it much except to 
verify it is operational.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:53 AM, John Panarese wrote:

They had started to work on it a few years back and were making a lot of 
progress. All of a sudden, it stopped and I could never find an explanation. 
Firefox would work to a certain extent, but it’s much better now. I’d really 
suggest trying it out.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT





On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:51 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   We can dream big and support the effort. I was actually surprised to learn 
that Firefox was getting VO support.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:44 AM, John Panarese wrote:

That would be nice. I’m hoping that a lot of developers will get on the 
VoiceOver train now with the increase in popularity of the Mac among the blind.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

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The archives for this list can be searched at:

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Anders Holmberg

Hi!
There are times where braille does not display what the speech tells you.
THe braille display is blank.
But that is a problem in a lot of apps and hasn’t been fixed yet.
/A

> 2 juli 2020 kl. 04:31 skrev Jonathan Cohn :
> 
> Interesting I find that Braille support in Firefox with web pages to not be 
> as useful as JAWS. I don't have a lot of issues with Braille and Safari, 
> though I don't use Safari for testing systems at work, and I don't use 
> Braille for pleasure, so I don't use Safari with Braille very often.
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 10:48 AM, Anders Holmberg > <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> VoiceOver is quite intuitive when you get used to it.
>> The only good about jaws is the braille support.
>> Here VoiceOver still has a lot to come up with.
>> The best screenReader for firefox though is on windows NVDA and on Linux i 
>> guess there’s only ORCA.
>> I don’t know if the project Clifox exist anymore.
>> Where someone wanted to put together a console based version of ff.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 30 juni 2020 kl. 22:35 skrev Karen Lewellen >> <mailto:klewel...@shellworld.net>>:
>>> 
>>> granted  I am not overly objective, but issues for jaws seem, at least to 
>>> me,  more sensible than  with the mac.
>>> Speaking personally, and not fully from first hand experience, Voiceover's 
>>> built in aspect seems easier to work with than Jaws often-i-hear. flakiness.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Firefox was also inaccessible to jaws users for a while as well.
>>>> 
>>>> I can only assume that it's accessibility is coming back as well.
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2020 4:55 AM
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Subject: RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
>>>> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with Firefox 
>>>>  was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a Linux 
>>>> tool I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with the 
>>>> mac.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Just Wonderin:
>>>>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows
>>>>> CounterPart & I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track
>>>>> 
>>>>> Blessin'sAgain!
>>>>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:
>>>>>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of alia robinson
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be
>>>>>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off
>>>>>> alex jones.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Amen Ray!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon 
>>>>>> attack"
>>>>>> is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
>>>>>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to
>>>>>> continually fomen

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Anders Holmberg

Hi!
THe only thing i dislike about chrome is that it very often makes Vo announce 
it has new windows.
/A

> 1 juli 2020 kl. 23:51 skrev Michael Marshall :
> 
> hey,
> Still using Safari, it's not so bad that you can’t use it but i just feel 
> that in some situations, it can be outstripped by Google Chrome.
> Even many websites seem to take a big dislike to Safari for some reason.
> 
>> On 2 Jul 2020, at 5:54 am, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> Now that is interesting.
>> may i ask what you are using on your mac instead?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, Michael Marshall wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey, must disagree on Safari.
>>> In my personal experience, I think Safari Accessibility has actually 
>>> dropped significantly in recent operating systems.
>>> It will be interesting to see what it is like in the upcoming system.
>>> 
>>>> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:43 am, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Well, safari has always been very good imho.
>>>> However i have since i was both a windows aand a Linux user used firefox a 
>>>> lot and have loved its interface.
>>>> /A
>>>> 
>>>>> 30 juni 2020 kl. 18:55 skrev Karen Lewellen :
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
>>>>> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with 
>>>>> Firefox  was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a 
>>>>> Linux tool I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects 
>>>>> with the mac.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just Wonderin:
>>>>>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows CounterPart 
>>>>>> & I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Blessin'sAgain!
>>>>>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of alia robinson
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>>>>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be 
>>>>>>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off 
>>>>>>> alex jones.
>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Amen Ray!
>>>>>>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon 
>>>>>>> attack" is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
>>>>>>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to 
>>>>>>> continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black 
>>>>>>> lives!
>>>>>>> May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're being 
>>>>>>> fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
>>>>>>> Thats called a monopoly!
>>>>>>> Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
>>>>>>> It aint gonna happen guys!
>>>>>>> Just watch!
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>> http://www.ma

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Petrus Tuerlings

I’m sorry Phill,
But your Argument would hold more value if you weren’t guilty of the same 
thing. You have the nerve to talk about freedom of speech and the right to have 
what ever signature you want. But you were quite happy to make a perfectly 
decent gentlemen delete his actual name that was spelt out in the  arabic 
alphabet and it offended your sensitive little ears. I know you blocked him but 
you still had to speak your disapproval of someone using their own name 
publicly. And it is his identity  and I know whoo I’d rather be friends with if 
I ever got to meet any one of you. . 

> On 2/07/2020, at 13:01, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s 
> from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are 
> terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are 
> exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like 
> hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, 
> but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or 
> wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main 
> reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so we could 
> speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you love 
> conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>> &
>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>> 
>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>> 
>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>> ThisThread
>> 
>> 
>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
>>> other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
>>> thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
>>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don'tThink:
>>> There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
>>> Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Brandon Olivares

Hey Ray,

Just want to at least say from one person that I think you should be able to 
put anything you want in your signature. It was others making an issue of your 
signature, not you. If someone put something “politically correct” in their 
signature, no one would care. I commend you for standing up for what you 
believe.

Brandon

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Phill, a huge thank you.  I’m purposefully doing this openly because it’s not 
> easy to stand alone against the ridicule of others.  Therefore, I think 
> support given publicly needs to be acknowledged publicly.  
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
> 
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Phil Halton > > wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
>> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and 
>> he’s from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three 
>> things are terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature 
>> when we are exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I 
>> don’t like hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he 
>> believes, but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to 
>> shut up or wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One 
>> of the main reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so 
>> we could speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you 
>> love conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>>> &
>>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>>> 
>>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>>> 
>>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>>> ThisThread
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
 other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, 
 no thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
 
 On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin >>> > wrote:
 
 Don'tThink:
 There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
 Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Dave Carlson

Robin,

At the bottom of every message you will find:

The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
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mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com 

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Engineer, Musician, Farfar, Woodworker, and Pioneer




On Jul 2, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Robin  wrote:

"Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
&
Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be 
The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue
EvenThough 
it's OFF Topic/Subject

I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
 
At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
> No thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m sorry Julie,
>  
> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
> I believe it is time 
>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>  
> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
> members.itâ€™s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, 
> must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>  
> Simon F
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Julie Rattray
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
> stopping this I think that is the issue 
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>  
> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>  
> That wasnâ€™t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com < macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> On 
> Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> I completely agree.  I canâ€™t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io email list, I am not aware of a way to mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
> 
> - Brad -
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  wrote:
>  
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what Iâ€™ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries < 
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> Iâ€™ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>  
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>  
> Later…
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
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> list.
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RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Karen Lewellen


Simon,
You are not  the reason Tim and others chose to depart.
Kare



On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote:


Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasn???t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I can???t believe the moderator has been silent and 
allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io<http://Groups.io> email list, I am not aware of a way to 
mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I???ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I???ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later???



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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Yep. I’d love to see Thunderbird get the same work. It probably won’t be as 
“native” as Mail.app but it has more functionality, and plugins. Great choice 
on Windows.

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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Karen Lewellen

Further,
This is not the general public.
At no time has there been a thread focused on ray's personal definitions,
because there is nothing about the focus of this list that translates
into anyone doing what Ray claims in his signature. No one has
heretofore required him to apologize for his misguided dictionary.

Making his signature wrong for this list.
To be sure, choosing offense is just that a choice, much like making up a
sense of feeling threatened by nonexistent list members asking you to
apologize for terms you are not defining correctly in the first place.

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, alia robinson wrote:

religious and political sigs have no place on a mac list. the only thing we
should be speaking about are our macs. if white racists want to start their
own group go ahead. funny how you bigots tout free speech until someone calls
you out on your hate, and then we need to shut up! free speech goes both ways,
and when hate is spoken people who care call it out. at least I do. I am a
bisexual liberal witch, but you don’t see me coming on here with signatures
about it b/c it’s not the appropriate place. take it off list.
On Jul 1, 2020, at 9:01 PM, Phil Halton wrote:

I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or insensitive
about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s from the
south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are terrible.
And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are exposed to
the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like hearing about
aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, but I don’t get my
nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or wipe their signatures.
That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main reasons why we threw the
British crown out of the colonies, so we could speak our damn minds. apparently
You all hate free-speech and you love conformity and that’s really too damn
bad.

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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   They had started to work on it a few years back and were making a lot of 
progress. All of a sudden, it stopped and I could never find an explanation. 
Firefox would work to a certain extent, but it’s much better now. I’d really 
suggest trying it out.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:51 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   We can dream big and support the effort. I was actually surprised to learn 
> that Firefox was getting VO support.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:44 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>That would be nice. I’m hoping that a lot of developers will get on the 
>> VoiceOver train now with the increase in popularity of the Mac among the 
>> blind.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>>> 
>>> On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:
   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing 
 this through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that 
 was not Google Chrome.
 Take Care
 John D. Panarese
 Director
 Mac for the Blind
 Tel, (631) 724-4479
 Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
 Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
 APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
 AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
 MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more 
> later.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Here it is John.
>>> 
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
>>> From: Mike Arrigo 
>>> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
>>> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to 
>>> a great start.
>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> itself.
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   We can dream big and support the effort. I was actually surprised to 
learn that Firefox was getting VO support.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:44 AM, John Panarese wrote:

That would be nice. I’m hoping that a lot of developers will get on the 
VoiceOver train now with the increase in popularity of the Mac among the blind.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT





On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   That would be nice. I’m hoping that a lot of developers will get on the 
VoiceOver train now with the increase in popularity of the Mac among the blind.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing 
>> this through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that 
>> was not Google Chrome.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more 
>>> later.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>>> 
>>> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
 Take Care
 John D. Panarese
 Director
 Mac for the Blind
 Tel, (631) 724-4479
 Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
 Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
 APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
 AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
 MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Here it is John.
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
> From: Mike Arrigo 
> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a 
> great start.
> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
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> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> you

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac


   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.



Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT





On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

  It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.



Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Here it is John.
>>> 
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
>>> From: Mike Arrigo 
>>> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support 
>>> in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great 
>>> start.
>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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>>> 
> 
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If you have any questions or concerns about

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more 
later.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT





On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

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<>

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

  Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Here it is John.
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
> From: Mike Arrigo 
> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support 
> in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
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> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

  Roger that.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:06 PM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> MayBe that Person should Create a   NEW Thread, as This1 is Serverely 
> Derailed?
> Just Sayin
> 
> I  tried  & attempted to get This Thread Back On Track  to No Avail
> 
> At 10:00 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>>Ok. To get this back on track, could someone please repost the original 
>> article on Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I have been messing 
>> with FF on the Mac for a long time and accessibility is finally improving 
>> again with VoiceOver. Itâ€™s actually to the point of being quite usable.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com <mailto:j...@macfortheblind.com>
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com <http://www.macfortheblind.com/>
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> > mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. moderator, their contact information 
>> > is in the footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.
>> >
>> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> >   ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>> > Freedom of Speech Carries With
>> > It Implicit Responsibility.
>> >
>> > On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
>> >> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
>> >> &
>> >> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which 
>> >> would be The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue
>> >> EvenThough
>> >> it's OFF Topic/Subject
>> >> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
>> >> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>> >>> No thatÃ¢€™s why IÃ¢€™m sorry Jsorry Julie,
>> >>>
>> >>> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
>> >>> I believe it is time
>> >>>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>> >>>
>> >>> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
>> >>> members.itÃ¢€™s just so interesting to hear how theseese perfect people 
>> >>> react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>> >>>
>> >>> Simon F
>> >>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
>> >>> > >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray
>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
>> >>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the 
>> >>> mac
>> >>>
>> >>> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a 
>> >>> moderator stopping this I think that is the issue
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty > >>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
>> >>><mailto:si...@blinky-net.com <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>> >>>
>> >>>That wasnÃ¢€™t my intention to make it happen.
>> .
>> >>>Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Simon F
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> >>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> >>>> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> >&g

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Robin


MayBe that Person should Create a   NEW Thread, as This1 is Serverely Derailed?
Just Sayin

I  tried  & attempted to get This Thread Back On Track  to No Avail

At 10:00 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
Ok. To get this back on track, could 
someone please repost the original article on 
Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I 
have been messing with FF on the Mac for a long 
time and accessibility is finally improving 
again with VoiceOver. Itâ€™s actually to the point of being quite usable.



Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via 
MacVisionaries  wrote:

>
>   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. 
moderator, their contact information is in the 
footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.

>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
>
> On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
>> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
>> &
>> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of 
TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be The 
Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue

>> EvenThough
>> it's OFF Topic/Subject
>> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
>> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>>> No thatÃ¢€™s why IÃ¢€™m sorry Jsorry Julie,
>>>
>>> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
>>> I believe it is time
>>>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>>>
>>> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss 
emails of interest from other members.itÃ¢€™s 
just so interesting to hear how theseese 
perfect people react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.

>>>
>>> Simon F
>>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray

>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
>>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on 
Firefox accessibility on the mac

>>>
>>> It was not you that made people leave it is 
rather the lack of a moderator stopping this I think that is the issue

>>>
>>>
>>>On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty >><mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>>>
>>>That wasnÃ¢€™t my intention to make it happen.
.
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>    Simon F
>>>
>>>
>>>    From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
>>>Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
>>>To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
>>>the mac
>>>
>>>I completely agree.  I canÃ¢€™t believe the modeoderator has been
>>>silent and allowed this crap to go on.
>>>Unlike a Groups.io <http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware
>>>of a way to mute a topic.
>>>It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
>>>from the list.
>>>
>>>- Brad -
>>>
>>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson >><mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
>>>opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
>>>staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
>>>ashamed of what IÃ¢€™ve seen here, and to those se who were supportive
>>>you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
>>>a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
>>>are gone.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
>>>>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
>>>bigotry.  IÃ¢€™ve got much better things to do wo with my time and
>>>would prefer to surround myself with 
tolerant,

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Robin

it's Certainly " Distrubin' " that Neither of 
Them have Chimed IN on this Thread, as Others 
have   indicated that They have ReachedOut to Them concerning  it


Makes Me Wonder

Thanks 4 Responding!
At 09:56 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. 
moderator, their contact information is in the 
footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:

"Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
&
Wonder if "They" support The ViewsÂ  of 
TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be The 
Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue

EvenThough
it's OFF Topic/Subject
I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

No thatÃ¢€™s why IÃ¢€™m sorry Juorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
Â  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss 
emails of interest from other members.itÃ¢€™s 
just so interesting to hear ho how these 
perfect people react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.


Simon F
*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray

*Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is 
rather the lack of a moderator stopping this I think that is the issue



On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasnÃ¢€™t my intention to make it happen.

.

Regards,


Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
the mac

I completely agree.Â  I canÃ¢€™t believe thethe moderator has been
silent and allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io <http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware
of a way to mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
ashamed of what IÃ¢€™ve seen here, and to those se who were supportive
you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
bigotry.Â  IÃ¢€™ve got much better things to to do with my time and
would prefer to surround myself with 
tolerant, respectful people. Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.


Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…

>>



-- The following information is 
important for all members of the Mac

Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on
the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach
mark at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit

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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A45291C-2595-4DFD-ACA0-E9DC64A87AE2%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
.

-- The following information is 
important for all members of the Mac

Visionaries list.

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Ok. To get this back on track, could someone please repost the original 
article on Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I have been messing with 
FF on the Mac for a long time and accessibility is finally improving again with 
VoiceOver. It’s actually to the point of being quite usable.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. moderator, their contact information is 
> in the footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
>> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
>> &
>> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which would 
>> be The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue
>> EvenThough
>> it's OFF Topic/Subject
>> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
>> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>>> No thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m sorry Julie,
>>> 
>>> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
>>> I believe it is time
>>>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>>> 
>>> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
>>> members.itâ€™s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, 
>>> must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>>> 
>>> Simon F
>>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
>>> *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
>>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> 
>>> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
>>> stopping this I think that is the issue
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty >><mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>>> 
>>>That wasnâ€™t my intention to make it happen.
>>>Regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Simon F
>>> 
>>> 
>>>From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
>>>Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
>>>To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
>>>the mac
>>> 
>>>I completely agree.  I canâ€™t believe the moderator has been
>>>silent and allowed this crap to go on.
>>>Unlike a Groups.io <http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware
>>>of a way to mute a topic.
>>>It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
>>>from the list.
>>> 
>>>- Brad -
>>> 
>>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson >><mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
>>>opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
>>>staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
>>>ashamed of what Iâ€™ve seen here, and to those who were supportive
>>>you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
>>>a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
>>>are gone.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
>>>>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hi,
>>> 
>>>Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
>>>bigotry.  Iâ€™ve got much better things to do with my time and
>>>would prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people. 
>>> Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.
>>> 
>>>Those who care to make contact can conne

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. moderator, their contact 
information is in the footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:

"Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
&
Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which 
would be The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue

EvenThough
it's OFF Topic/Subject

I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail

At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

No thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m sorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from 
other members.itâ€™s just so interesting to hear how these perfect 
people react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.


Simon F
*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray

*Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a 
moderator stopping this I think that is the issue



On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasnâ€™t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
the mac

I completely agree.  I canâ€™t believe the moderator has been
silent and allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io <http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware
of a way to mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
ashamed of what Iâ€™ve seen here, and to those who were supportive
you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
bigotry.  Iâ€™ve got much better things to do with my time and
would prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people. 
Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.


Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac

Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on
the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach
mark at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A45291C-2595-4DFD-ACA0-E9DC64A87AE2%40gmail.com

<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A45291C-2595-4DFD-ACA0-E9DC64A87AE2%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac

Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on
the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Robin


"Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
&
Wonder if "They" support The Views  of 
TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be The 
Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue

EvenThough
it's OFF Topic/Subject

I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail

At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

No thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m sorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss 
emails of interest from other members.itâ€™s 
just so interesting to hear how these perfect 
people react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.


Simon F
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Julie Rattray

Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is 
rather the lack of a moderator stopping this I think that is the issue



On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty 
<<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:


Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasnâ€™t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
On Behalf Of Brad Snyder

Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I canâ€™t believe the 
moderator has been silent and allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a <http://groups.io/>Groups.io email 
list, I am not aware of a way to mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this 
is to unsubscribe from the list.


- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
<<mailto:ali...@gmail.com>ali...@gmail.com> wrote:


and my point is made. we just lost a good member 
of the list as opposed to this piece of trash 
who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am 
gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am 
ashamed of what Iâ€™ve seen here, and to those 
who were supportive you rock. to people like 
ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of a 
future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.



On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via 
MacVisionaries 
<<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
wrote:


Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this 
sort of insensitive bigotry.  Iâ€™ve got much 
better things to do with my time and would 
prefer to surround myself with tolerant, 
respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.


Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



--
The following information is important for all 
members of the Mac Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the 
running of this list, or if you feel that a 
member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark 
Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>mktay@ucla.eduand your 
owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries

   Blocking addresses is one way but does not solve it completely. 
Perhaps deleting a thread without reading it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/1/2020 11:08 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware of a 
way to mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from 
the list.


- Brad -


On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson > wrote:


and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed 
to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am 
gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen 
here, and to those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, 
phil and chuck I am just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes 
and the people spouting them are gone.



On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive 
bigotry.  I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would 
prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am 
unsubscribing from this list.


Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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<>

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Guys, please don’t leave. If you leave, you just surrender a useful resource to 
some behaviourally challenged individuals and it’s a dead loss to everyone else.

The right thing to do is:

1. Contact the mods and/or owner.

2. Filter your email. Mail.app will do it on macOS; iOS has a block feature for 
recognised senders and a mute thread feature to stop the notifications; iCloud 
and other providers will let you set up rules. You don’t need to help those 
who’ve decided to surrender to their communitarian instincts.

3. Join other lists in case the signal/noise ratio on this list doesn’t return.

4. If you have the time, educate the poor darlings. Most of them are simply 
insulated, not actively malicious or bad people. Their regressive ideologies 
are the product of an easy and culturally homogeneous lifestyle, and their 
conspiratorial hatred is only being encouraged and exploited by some very nasty 
individuals for their own material ends. The key point is that tolerance and 
forgiveness of others is not incompatible with a sense of place and happiness; 
their hearts are, in all likelihood, big enough for everybody, even those who 
are in some insubstantial way different from themselves. Needless to say, do 
that off-list.

5. Try very hard not to reply reflexively or emotionally. It’ll just add to the 
noise and the heat, and more people will feel the need to leave.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Julie Rattray

Thanks Simon 

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:15, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Julie,
>  
> My email address is
> si...@blinky-net.com <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
>  
> happy to assist if I can
>  
> good luck and don’t stay away to long.
>  
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Julie Rattray
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:10 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> Aha agreed I have been really disappointed with the thread and just don’t 
> want this kind of stuff in my inbox so am one of the people who has decided 
> to leave the list - would be happy to keep in touch with some list members as 
> help and advise has been so welcome but at at time when we should all be 
> remembering our humanity some people appear to have lost theirs   
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:05, Simon A Fogarty  <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>  
> No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,
>  
> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
> I believe it is time
>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>  
> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
> members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, must 
> be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>  
> Simon F
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Julie Rattray
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
> stopping this I think that is the issue 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>  
> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>  
> That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io <http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware of a way to 
> mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  <mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>  
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>  
> Later…
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> <http://www.mail-archive

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Julie,

My email address is
si...@blinky-net.com<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>

happy to assist if I can

good luck and don’t stay away to long.



From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Julie Rattray
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:10 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Aha agreed I have been really disappointed with the thread and just don’t want 
this kind of stuff in my inbox so am one of the people who has decided to leave 
the list - would be happy to keep in touch with some list members as help and 
advise has been so welcome but at at time when we should all be remembering our 
humanity some people appear to have lost theirs


On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:05, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, must 
be difficult living in their close minded worlds.

Simon F
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Julie Rattray
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
stopping this I think that is the issue



On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and allowed 
this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io<http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware of a way to 
mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Your Mac Visionaries

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Fuck sake,

I have only now seen this and I have to admit that this is pushing this shit to 
far.

 Tim is one of the best people both as a member of this list and his knowledge 
of the world of apple.

 Sorry tim that this has caused you to go.

 As they ssay, only the good die young,
 And this list has just lost one of the best.and to you racist pricks causing 
this shit,
Why don't youdo the world a favour and go put your head in a sand hill and 
breath deeply.

Even the animal world has more respect for other chreatures than you self 
centred ignorant shitheads have for your fellow man.

To the majority fof this list who respect and appreciate the usefulness of the 
list content,

I apologise to you for my language,

 But this thread has gone on to long.

I will try again to contact the mods of the list and get them to do something 
for us.

Otherwise I'd suggest setting up a rule in your mail clients or online mail 
services to block the original senders thread for now that is the best we can 
do.with any luck the smarter forms of life on this planet will slap some sense 
in to these people.

Like the cockroach  I just saw run under the door.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Dave Carlson
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 5:15 PM
To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Cc: David Carlson 
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Tim,
You did not give out your personal email. Not sure how to reach you. Mine is 
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jul 1, 2020, at 9:47 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…

Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jul 1, 2020, at 7:10 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:

Phill, a huge thank you.  I’m purposefully doing this openly because it’s not 
easy to stand alone against the ridicule of others.  Therefore, I think support 
given publicly needs to be acknowledged publicly.  
I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness

Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s 
> from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are 
> terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are 
> exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like 
> hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, 
> but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or 
> wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main 
> reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so we could 
> speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you love 
> conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>> &
>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>> 
>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>> 
>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>> ThisThread
>> 
>> 
>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
>>> other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
>>> thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
>>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don'tThink:
>>> There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
>>> Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Julie Rattray

Aha agreed I have been really disappointed with the thread and just don’t want 
this kind of stuff in my inbox so am one of the people who has decided to leave 
the list - would be happy to keep in touch with some list members as help and 
advise has been so welcome but at at time when we should all be remembering our 
humanity some people appear to have lost theirs   

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:05, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,
>  
> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
> I believe it is time
>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>  
> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
> members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, must 
> be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>  
> Simon F
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Julie Rattray
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
> stopping this I think that is the issue 
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>  
> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>  
> That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io <http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware of a way to 
> mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  <mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>  
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>  
> Later…
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A45291C-2595-4DFD-ACA0-E9DC64A87AE2%40gmail.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A45291C-2595-4DFD-ACA0-E9DC64A87AE2%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>.
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RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, must 
be difficult living in their close minded worlds.

Simon F
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Julie Rattray
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
stopping this I think that is the issue


On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and allowed 
this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io<http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware of a way to 
mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Julie Rattray

It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
stopping this I think that is the issue 

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>  
> That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io <http://groups.io/> email list, I am not aware of a way to 
> mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  <mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>  
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>  
> Later…
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
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RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and allowed 
this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io<http://Groups.io> email list, I am not aware of a way to 
mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Brad Snyder

I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and allowed 
this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware of a way to 
mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the list.

- Brad -


On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone. 


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Julie Rattray

I am sorry that Simon’s well crafted message did not put an end to this and sad 
to see that we have now lost two members publicly and possibly more behind the 
scenes. 

I will not re-itterate the arguments that have already been made about the 
inappropriateness of this thread but would like to just say that despite 
several requests to end it which may have allowed us to move on it has 
continued. I now feel that I have no choice but also to remove myself from the 
list - I had hoped that the list moderators would have stepped in and put an 
end to this but as they have not I feel like others I can no longer be part of 
this group which if, even in small part, by lack of action is supporting hugely 
inappropriate and offensive behaviour.

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 06:53, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
> 
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone. 


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…


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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries

religious and political sigs have no place on a mac list. the only thing we 
should be speaking about are our macs. if white racists   want to start their 
own group go ahead. funny how you bigots tout free speech until someone calls 
you out on your hate, and then we need to shut up! free speech goes both ways, 
and when hate is spoken people who care call it out. at least I do. I am a 
bisexual liberal witch, but you don’t see me coming on here with signatures 
about it b/c it’s not the appropriate place. take it off list.
On Jul 1, 2020, at 9:01 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:

I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or insensitive 
about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s from the 
south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are terrible. 
And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are exposed to 
the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like hearing about 
aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, but I don’t get my 
nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or wipe their signatures. 
That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main reasons  why we threw the 
British crown out of the colonies, so we could speak our damn minds. apparently 
 You all hate free-speech and you love conformity and that’s really too damn 
bad.

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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Dave Carlson

Tim,
You did not give out your personal email. Not sure how to reach you. Mine is 
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker




On Jul 1, 2020, at 9:47 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jul 1, 2020, at 7:10 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:

Phill, a huge thank you.  I’m purposefully doing this openly because it’s not 
easy to stand alone against the ridicule of others.  Therefore, I think support 
given publicly needs to be acknowledged publicly.  
I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness

Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s 
> from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are 
> terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are 
> exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like 
> hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, 
> but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or 
> wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main 
> reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so we could 
> speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you love 
> conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>> &
>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>> 
>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>> 
>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>> ThisThread
>> 
>> 
>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
>>> other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
>>> thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
>>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don'tThink:
>>> There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
>>> Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>> 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jul 1, 2020, at 7:10 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:

Phill, a huge thank you.  I’m purposefully doing this openly because it’s not 
easy to stand alone against the ridicule of others.  Therefore, I think support 
given publicly needs to be acknowledged publicly.  
I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness

Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Phil Halton  > wrote:
> 
> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s 
> from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are 
> terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are 
> exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like 
> hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, 
> but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or 
> wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main 
> reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so we could 
> speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you love 
> conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin > > wrote:
>> 
>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>> &
>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>> 
>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>> 
>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>> ThisThread
>> 
>> 
>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
>>> other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
>>> thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
>>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don'tThink:
>>> There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
>>> Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/890F2CC2-34F3-4F5F-ADC6-E66018E84C21%40gmail.com.
>> 
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>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

macOS Braille support is already generally poor, but it is very noticeable in 
Safari where scrolling/panning behaviour is completely broken.

Alternatives are Chromium-based browsers, but those aren't immune from ceisures 
either; use a Windows screen reader for the smoothest experience across the 
board, sorry to say. You can avoid it for a long time by employing content 
blockers to strip out much of the crud before it even loads in Safari, but it 
means work for you when you need full access to a site so I don't recommend it 
to "novice" users. But it hardly changes the reality that you'll have a Windows 
VM on standby, or access to a Windows system, for some unavoidable web and 
other tasks. This has always struck me as disappointing given iOS doesn't seem 
to have quite the same nonsense going on and it seems to have got worse in 
recent versions of macOS.

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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Jonathan Cohn

Interesting I find that Braille support in Firefox with web pages to not be as 
useful as JAWS. I don't have a lot of issues with Braille and Safari, though I 
don't use Safari for testing systems at work, and I don't use Braille for 
pleasure, so I don't use Safari with Braille very often.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jul 1, 2020, at 10:48 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> VoiceOver is quite intuitive when you get used to it.
> The only good about jaws is the braille support.
> Here VoiceOver still has a lot to come up with.
> The best screenReader for firefox though is on windows NVDA and on Linux i 
> guess there’s only ORCA.
> I don’t know if the project Clifox exist anymore.
> Where someone wanted to put together a console based version of ff.
> /A
> 
>> 30 juni 2020 kl. 22:35 skrev Karen Lewellen :
>> 
>> granted  I am not overly objective, but issues for jaws seem, at least to 
>> me,  more sensible than  with the mac.
>> Speaking personally, and not fully from first hand experience, Voiceover's 
>> built in aspect seems easier to work with than Jaws often-i-hear. flakiness.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote:
>> 
>>> Firefox was also inaccessible to jaws users for a while as well.
>>> 
>>> I can only assume that it's accessibility is coming back as well.
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>> Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2020 4:55 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> 
>>> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
>>> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with Firefox  
>>> was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a Linux tool 
>>> I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with the mac.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Just Wonderin:
>>>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows
>>>> CounterPart & I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?
>>>> 
>>>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track
>>>> 
>>>> Blessin'sAgain!
>>>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:
>>>>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>>  On Behalf Of alia robinson
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>>> 
>>>>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be
>>>>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off
>>>>> alex jones.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Amen Ray!
>>>>> 
>>>>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon attack"
>>>>> is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
>>>>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to
>>>>> continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black lives!
>>>>> May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're
>>>>> being fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
>>>>> Thats called a monopoly!
>>>>> Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
>>>>> It aint gonna happen guys!
>>>>> Just watch!
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>> at:
>>>>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>&

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Raymond Foret Jr

Phill, a huge thank you.  I’m purposefully doing this openly because it’s not 
easy to stand alone against the ridicule of others.  Therefore, I think support 
given publicly needs to be acknowledged publicly.  
I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness

Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s 
> from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are 
> terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are 
> exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like 
> hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, 
> but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or 
> wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main 
> reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so we could 
> speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you love 
> conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>> &
>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>> 
>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>> 
>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>> ThisThread
>> 
>> 
>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
>>> other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
>>> thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
>>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don'tThink:
>>> There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
>>> Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/890F2CC2-34F3-4F5F-ADC6-E66018E84C21%40gmail.com.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Phil Halton

I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or insensitive 
about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s from the 
south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are terrible. 
And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are exposed to 
the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like hearing about 
aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, but I don’t get my 
nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or wipe their signatures. 
That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main reasons  why we threw the 
British crown out of the colonies, so we could speak our damn minds. apparently 
 You all hate free-speech and you love conformity and that’s really too damn 
bad.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
> &
> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
> 
> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
> 
> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
> ThisThread
> 
> 
> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
>> other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
>> thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
>> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> Don'tThink:
>> There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
>> Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Robin


What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
&
 I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands

All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith

MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with 
MyOPreviousPosting to ThisThread



At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and 
disrespectful and insensitive, no thereâ€™s not 
a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*


On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:

Don'tThink:
There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's 
Signature, so He shouldn't Be Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.


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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Michael Marshall

hey,
Still using Safari, it's not so bad that you can’t use it but i just feel that 
in some situations, it can be outstripped by Google Chrome.
Even many websites seem to take a big dislike to Safari for some reason.

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 5:54 am, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Now that is interesting.
> may i ask what you are using on your mac instead?
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, Michael Marshall wrote:
> 
>> Hey, must disagree on Safari.
>> In my personal experience, I think Safari Accessibility has actually dropped 
>> significantly in recent operating systems.
>> It will be interesting to see what it is like in the upcoming system.
>> 
>>> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:43 am, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Well, safari has always been very good imho.
>>> However i have since i was both a windows aand a Linux user used firefox a 
>>> lot and have loved its interface.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>>> 30 juni 2020 kl. 18:55 skrev Karen Lewellen :
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
>>>> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with Firefox 
>>>>  was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a Linux 
>>>> tool I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with the 
>>>> mac.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Just Wonderin:
>>>>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows CounterPart 
>>>>> & I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track
>>>>> 
>>>>> Blessin'sAgain!
>>>>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:
>>>>>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
>>>>>> On Behalf Of alia robinson
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>>>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be 
>>>>>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off 
>>>>>> alex jones.
>>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> Amen Ray!
>>>>>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon 
>>>>>> attack" is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
>>>>>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to 
>>>>>> continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black lives!
>>>>>> May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're being 
>>>>>> fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
>>>>>> Thats called a monopoly!
>>>>>> Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
>>>>>> It aint gonna happen guys!
>>>>>> Just watch!
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisi

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

other than it’s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
there’s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*

On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:

Don'tThink:
There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.

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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Robin


Don'tThink:
There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's 
Signature, so He shouldn't Be Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.


But HisSignature should Be Ignored By Those,Who 
Don'tBelieve as Well as Those, Who Do Believe as he Does


Let's Not Allow  a  Subscriber'sSignature   to Derail  Threads.
Just Stay ON the Topic of the Thread


At 01:38 AM 7/1/2020, you wrote:

Hi Folks,

I know for a fact this has already been brought 
to the attention of the list moderators


So before Mark has to put his foot down,
Could we be adults about this and bring the list 
back to those issues the list is here for,

That being Mac / apple computer related issues?!

Ray,
We all have our own views on different things, 
but we cann all keep them to ourselves and or out of our email signatures.


Could you please be mature about this and 
respect the lists views and remove your current 
signature / comment and we can go back to a 
friendly computing related email list where 
everyone respects everyone else for their computing abilities and helpfulness


Thanks to all for enddning this Non IT related posting here.


Regards,


Simon F

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Raymond Foret Jr

Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2020 8:14 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Oh and I suppose youâ€™re not going to be told 
you canâ€™t say what you just 
said?  Really?  Well, at least I have one honest 
friend out here backing me up.

I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness

Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

On Jun 30, 2020, at 10:33 AM, Robin 
<<mailto:robin-mel...@comcast.net>robin-mel...@comcast.net> wrote:


MayBe
That's Because
You,Mr.Ray i.e., Mr.BarFootRay haven't  Gone 
Through the Experiences  that They Have 
and/or  Are  a  Product of SuchExperiences

i.e., YourPrivileged Life

Say IT Loud & Proud, so EveryOne knows "where" You Stand!
as
I  MuchPrefer to KnowThis

BlackLives Matter & ALL Lives can't Matter Until BlackLives Matter!!!

Just Sayin

Blessin's 2  You AnyWayz
At 03:57 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:

Just the truth.  IÃ¢€™m sicsick and tired of 
people on my side telling us we canÃ¢€™t„¢t 
stand up for it but BLM can stand up for theirsÃ¢€™. MO MORE!



I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness

Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray


On Jun 29, 2020, at 11:27 PM, 'E.T.' via 
MacVisionaries 
<<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:


Raymond,
  Isn't that quote of yours a bit over the top and offensive?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/29/2020 8:24 PM, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:

I very much doubt my current Mac will support 
this so IÃ¢€™ll need to get a new one next 
year.  Maybe be I should wait till I can get a 
maxed out Mac mini with the new Apple chip set.

I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
Sincerely,
The constantly barefooted Ray

On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:29 PM, Mike Arrigo 
<<mailto:n0...@charter.net>n0...@charter.net < 
mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:


This is really exciting, hopefully we will have 
very good voiceover support in Firefox very 
soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
<https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/>https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/ 



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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Anders Holmberg

Hi!
Braille together with safari is a mess.
I really don’t know how many times i have told accessibility to do something 
about that but nothing.
/A

> 1 juli 2020 kl. 21:40 skrev Michael Marshall :
> 
> Hey, must disagree on Safari.
> In my personal experience, I think Safari Accessibility has actually dropped 
> significantly in recent operating systems.
> It will be interesting to see what it is like in the upcoming system.
> 
>> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:43 am, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Well, safari has always been very good imho.
>> However i have since i was both a windows aand a Linux user used firefox a 
>> lot and have loved its interface.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 30 juni 2020 kl. 18:55 skrev Karen Lewellen :
>>> 
>>> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
>>> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with Firefox  
>>> was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a Linux tool 
>>> I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with the mac.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Just Wonderin:
>>>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows CounterPart & 
>>>> I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?
>>>> 
>>>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track
>>>> 
>>>> Blessin'sAgain!
>>>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:
>>>>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
>>>>> On Behalf Of alia robinson
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be 
>>>>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off alex 
>>>>> jones.
>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Amen Ray!
>>>>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon 
>>>>> attack" is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
>>>>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to 
>>>>> continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black lives!
>>>>> May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're being 
>>>>> fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
>>>>> Thats called a monopoly!
>>>>> Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
>>>>> It aint gonna happen guys!
>>>>> Just watch!
>>>>> --
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FE376125-C5CC-4115-8A27-41CA13423204%40gmail.com.
>>>>> --
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Karen Lewellen


Now that is interesting.
may i ask what you are using on your mac instead?



On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, Michael Marshall wrote:


Hey, must disagree on Safari.
In my personal experience, I think Safari Accessibility has actually dropped 
significantly in recent operating systems.
It will be interesting to see what it is like in the upcoming system.


On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:43 am, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
Well, safari has always been very good imho.
However i have since i was both a windows aand a Linux user used firefox a lot 
and have loved its interface.
/A


30 juni 2020 kl. 18:55 skrev Karen Lewellen :

Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with Firefox  was 
not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a Linux tool I 
believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with the mac.



On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:


Just Wonderin:
How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows CounterPart & I'm 
Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?

Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track

Blessin'sAgain!
At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:

Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of alia robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be allowed. it 
brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off alex jones.
On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL  
wrote:
Amen Ray!
The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon attack" is just 
the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to continually 
foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black lives!
May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're being fed is controlled 
by "6 corporations"
Thats called a monopoly!
Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
It aint gonna happen guys!
Just watch!
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-01 Thread Michael Marshall

Hey, must disagree on Safari.
In my personal experience, I think Safari Accessibility has actually dropped 
significantly in recent operating systems.
It will be interesting to see what it is like in the upcoming system.

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:43 am, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Well, safari has always been very good imho.
> However i have since i was both a windows aand a Linux user used firefox a 
> lot and have loved its interface.
> /A
> 
>> 30 juni 2020 kl. 18:55 skrev Karen Lewellen :
>> 
>> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
>> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with Firefox  
>> was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a Linux tool I 
>> believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with the mac.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:
>> 
>>> Just Wonderin:
>>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows CounterPart & 
>>> I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?
>>> 
>>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track
>>> 
>>> Blessin'sAgain!
>>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:
>>>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
>>>> -Original Message-----
>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>>> Behalf Of alia robinson
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be 
>>>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off alex 
>>>> jones.
>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> Amen Ray!
>>>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon attack" 
>>>> is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
>>>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to 
>>>> continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black lives!
>>>> May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're being 
>>>> fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
>>>> Thats called a monopoly!
>>>> Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
>>>> It aint gonna happen guys!
>>>> Just watch!
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac