Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
It worked by also pressing fn + escape.
Thanks for your instructions which I will save for later.
/A

> 8 nov. 2022 kl. 19:22 skrev Greg Wocher :
> 
> Hello,
> How you do this depends on which version of Mac OS you are running. I will 
> give the instructions for Mac OS Ventura since that is what I am running.
> 1. Open up System settings.
> 2. Once in the list of settings find keyboard by either arrowing around until 
> you find it or start typing keyboard and it should jump you right to it. 
> 3. Once you find keyboard use VO plus right arrow to move to the keyboard 
> scroll area and interact with it.
> 4. Now VO right arrow till you hear keyboard shortcuts button and activate 
> it. 
> 5. Once you activate the button it will put you on a table of different 
> sections you can find keyboard shortcuts for. Interact with this table.
> 6. Once you interact, use VO plus down arrow to move to a button that says 
> function keys and activate it.
> 7. Once you activate the button stop interacting and move to the right with 
> VO plus right arrow and you will be able to activate the option to use 
> function keys as normal F1 thru F12.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I am using a Logitech xm keys.
>> Very very nice to type at.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee :
>>> 
>>> Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
>>> aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
>>> vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of 
>>> them. Some may require an application
>>> to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
>>> under Windows.
>>> 
>>> I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not 
>>> involve the Fn key but does reduce the
>>> number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with 
>>> all Voiceover commands?
>>> Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
>>> Bless!
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
>>> "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few accomplish
>>> it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20221108172328.wushzxyl2hoqpkg5%40dlee.org.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AABF702E-9F0F-469C-9A41-8281F9EC54A6%40pipkrokodil.se.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> 

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Bradford Snyder]

No.

- Brad -



On Nov 8, 2022, at 16:49, Lorie McCloud  wrote:

does Apple make keyboards with wires any more?

> On Nov 8, 2022, at 4:41 PM, Bradford Snyder  > wrote:
> 
> I don’t know anything about the keyboard you have.
> Try pressing the VO modifier and then pressing NumberRow keys, as I 
> previously described, and see if that allows you to perform VO actions that 
> utilize F-keys.
> If that doesn’t work, I recommend abandoning your current keyboard, and 
> getting an Apple Magic keyboard.  It may cost a little more, but it is 
> guaranteed to work properly with a Mac. 
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 8, 2022, at 15:31, Lorie McCloud  > wrote:
> 
> I’ve got a keyboard by Cherry that has all the music controls across the top 
> and I can’t get the function keys to work as regular function keys. it’s not 
> a Logitech. does what you’re talking about only work with logetech keyboards?
> 
> in Keyboard shortcuts I haven’t been able to find a button to check for using 
> the F keys as normal function keys. the “play” key is where F8 should be and 
> it doesn’t do anything if I press vo along with it as I would when turning on 
> the vo utility.
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 2:25 PM, Bradford Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> On macOS versions prior to Ventura, go to System Preferences > Keyboard, 
>> select the Keyboard tab, and navigate to the checkbox labeled "use function 
>> keys as normal F1 thru F12”.
>> 
>> Note:  When using  some Logitech keyboards, the option to change the 
>> behavior of F-keys does not exist.
>> In this case, you must press the Fn key, along with the VO modifier, in 
>> order to perform VoiceOver functions that use F-keys.
>> 
>> As an alternative, on macOS versions beginning with Yosemite and later, it 
>> may be possible to use NumberRow keys in combination with the VO modifier, 
>> to perform VO functions that require F-keys.
>> This became an option, with the introduction of the TouchBar Macs, and is 
>> available on all Macs beginning with macOS Yosemite, because Yosemite was 
>> the version of macOS that came installed on the first models of TouchBar 
>> Macs.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:22, Greg Wocher > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> How you do this depends on which version of Mac OS you are running. I will 
>> give the instructions for Mac OS Ventura since that is what I am running.
>> 1. Open up System settings.
>> 2. Once in the list of settings find keyboard by either arrowing around 
>> until you find it or start typing keyboard and it should jump you right to 
>> it. 
>> 3. Once you find keyboard use VO plus right arrow to move to the keyboard 
>> scroll area and interact with it.
>> 4. Now VO right arrow till you hear keyboard shortcuts button and activate 
>> it. 
>> 5. Once you activate the button it will put you on a table of different 
>> sections you can find keyboard shortcuts for. Interact with this table.
>> 6. Once you interact, use VO plus down arrow to move to a button that says 
>> function keys and activate it.
>> 7. Once you activate the button stop interacting and move to the right with 
>> VO plus right arrow and you will be able to activate the option to use 
>> function keys as normal F1 thru F12.
>> 
>> Greg Wocher
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I am using a Logitech xm keys.
>>> Very very nice to type at.
>>> /A
>>> 
 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee >>> >:
 
 Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
 aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
 vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of 
 them. Some may require an application
 to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
 under Windows.
 
 I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not 
 involve the Fn key but does reduce the
 number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
 
 On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
 Hi!
 Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with 
 all Voiceover commands?
 Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
 Bless!
 /A
 
 --
 Doug Lee d...@dlee.org   
   http://www.dlee.org 
 "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few 
 accomplish
 it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Lorie McCloud]

does Apple make keyboards with wires any more?

> On Nov 8, 2022, at 4:41 PM, Bradford Snyder  wrote:
> 
> I don’t know anything about the keyboard you have.
> Try pressing the VO modifier and then pressing NumberRow keys, as I 
> previously described, and see if that allows you to perform VO actions that 
> utilize F-keys.
> If that doesn’t work, I recommend abandoning your current keyboard, and 
> getting an Apple Magic keyboard.  It may cost a little more, but it is 
> guaranteed to work properly with a Mac. 
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 8, 2022, at 15:31, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> I’ve got a keyboard by Cherry that has all the music controls across the top 
> and I can’t get the function keys to work as regular function keys. it’s not 
> a Logitech. does what you’re talking about only work with logetech keyboards?
> 
> in Keyboard shortcuts I haven’t been able to find a button to check for using 
> the F keys as normal function keys. the “play” key is where F8 should be and 
> it doesn’t do anything if I press vo along with it as I would when turning on 
> the vo utility.
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 2:25 PM, Bradford Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> On macOS versions prior to Ventura, go to System Preferences > Keyboard, 
>> select the Keyboard tab, and navigate to the checkbox labeled "use function 
>> keys as normal F1 thru F12”.
>> 
>> Note:  When using  some Logitech keyboards, the option to change the 
>> behavior of F-keys does not exist.
>> In this case, you must press the Fn key, along with the VO modifier, in 
>> order to perform VoiceOver functions that use F-keys.
>> 
>> As an alternative, on macOS versions beginning with Yosemite and later, it 
>> may be possible to use NumberRow keys in combination with the VO modifier, 
>> to perform VO functions that require F-keys.
>> This became an option, with the introduction of the TouchBar Macs, and is 
>> available on all Macs beginning with macOS Yosemite, because Yosemite was 
>> the version of macOS that came installed on the first models of TouchBar 
>> Macs.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:22, Greg Wocher > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> How you do this depends on which version of Mac OS you are running. I will 
>> give the instructions for Mac OS Ventura since that is what I am running.
>> 1. Open up System settings.
>> 2. Once in the list of settings find keyboard by either arrowing around 
>> until you find it or start typing keyboard and it should jump you right to 
>> it. 
>> 3. Once you find keyboard use VO plus right arrow to move to the keyboard 
>> scroll area and interact with it.
>> 4. Now VO right arrow till you hear keyboard shortcuts button and activate 
>> it. 
>> 5. Once you activate the button it will put you on a table of different 
>> sections you can find keyboard shortcuts for. Interact with this table.
>> 6. Once you interact, use VO plus down arrow to move to a button that says 
>> function keys and activate it.
>> 7. Once you activate the button stop interacting and move to the right with 
>> VO plus right arrow and you will be able to activate the option to use 
>> function keys as normal F1 thru F12.
>> 
>> Greg Wocher
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I am using a Logitech xm keys.
>>> Very very nice to type at.
>>> /A
>>> 
 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee >>> >:
 
 Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
 aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
 vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of 
 them. Some may require an application
 to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
 under Windows.
 
 I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not 
 involve the Fn key but does reduce the
 number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
 
 On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
 Hi!
 Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with 
 all Voiceover commands?
 Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
 Bless!
 /A
 
 --
 Doug Lee d...@dlee.org   
   http://www.dlee.org 
 "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few 
 accomplish
 it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list i

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Bradford Snyder]

I don’t know anything about the keyboard you have.
Try pressing the VO modifier and then pressing NumberRow keys, as I previously 
described, and see if that allows you to perform VO actions that utilize F-keys.
If that doesn’t work, I recommend abandoning your current keyboard, and getting 
an Apple Magic keyboard.  It may cost a little more, but it is guaranteed to 
work properly with a Mac. 

- Brad -



On Nov 8, 2022, at 15:31, Lorie McCloud  wrote:

I’ve got a keyboard by Cherry that has all the music controls across the top 
and I can’t get the function keys to work as regular function keys. it’s not a 
Logitech. does what you’re talking about only work with logetech keyboards?

in Keyboard shortcuts I haven’t been able to find a button to check for using 
the F keys as normal function keys. the “play” key is where F8 should be and it 
doesn’t do anything if I press vo along with it as I would when turning on the 
vo utility.

thanks.
Lorie

> On Nov 8, 2022, at 2:25 PM, Bradford Snyder  > wrote:
> 
> On macOS versions prior to Ventura, go to System Preferences > Keyboard, 
> select the Keyboard tab, and navigate to the checkbox labeled "use function 
> keys as normal F1 thru F12”.
> 
> Note:  When using  some Logitech keyboards, the option to change the behavior 
> of F-keys does not exist.
> In this case, you must press the Fn key, along with the VO modifier, in order 
> to perform VoiceOver functions that use F-keys.
> 
> As an alternative, on macOS versions beginning with Yosemite and later, it 
> may be possible to use NumberRow keys in combination with the VO modifier, to 
> perform VO functions that require F-keys.
> This became an option, with the introduction of the TouchBar Macs, and is 
> available on all Macs beginning with macOS Yosemite, because Yosemite was the 
> version of macOS that came installed on the first models of TouchBar Macs.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:22, Greg Wocher  > wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> How you do this depends on which version of Mac OS you are running. I will 
> give the instructions for Mac OS Ventura since that is what I am running.
> 1. Open up System settings.
> 2. Once in the list of settings find keyboard by either arrowing around until 
> you find it or start typing keyboard and it should jump you right to it. 
> 3. Once you find keyboard use VO plus right arrow to move to the keyboard 
> scroll area and interact with it.
> 4. Now VO right arrow till you hear keyboard shortcuts button and activate 
> it. 
> 5. Once you activate the button it will put you on a table of different 
> sections you can find keyboard shortcuts for. Interact with this table.
> 6. Once you interact, use VO plus down arrow to move to a button that says 
> function keys and activate it.
> 7. Once you activate the button stop interacting and move to the right with 
> VO plus right arrow and you will be able to activate the option to use 
> function keys as normal F1 thru F12.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Anders Holmberg > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I am using a Logitech xm keys.
>> Very very nice to type at.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee mailto:d...@dlee.org>>:
>>> 
>>> Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
>>> aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
>>> vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of 
>>> them. Some may require an application
>>> to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
>>> under Windows.
>>> 
>>> I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not 
>>> involve the Fn key but does reduce the
>>> number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with 
>>> all Voiceover commands?
>>> Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
>>> Bless!
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Doug Lee d...@dlee.org    
>>>  http://www.dlee.org 
>>> "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few accomplish
>>> it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The arc

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Lorie McCloud]

I’ve got a keyboard by Cherry that has all the music controls across the top 
and I can’t get the function keys to work as regular function keys. it’s not a 
Logitech. does what you’re talking about only work with logetech keyboards?

in Keyboard shortcuts I haven’t been able to find a button to check for using 
the F keys as normal function keys. the “play” key is where F8 should be and it 
doesn’t do anything if I press vo along with it as I would when turning on the 
vo utility.

thanks.
Lorie

> On Nov 8, 2022, at 2:25 PM, Bradford Snyder  wrote:
> 
> On macOS versions prior to Ventura, go to System Preferences > Keyboard, 
> select the Keyboard tab, and navigate to the checkbox labeled "use function 
> keys as normal F1 thru F12”.
> 
> Note:  When using  some Logitech keyboards, the option to change the behavior 
> of F-keys does not exist.
> In this case, you must press the Fn key, along with the VO modifier, in order 
> to perform VoiceOver functions that use F-keys.
> 
> As an alternative, on macOS versions beginning with Yosemite and later, it 
> may be possible to use NumberRow keys in combination with the VO modifier, to 
> perform VO functions that require F-keys.
> This became an option, with the introduction of the TouchBar Macs, and is 
> available on all Macs beginning with macOS Yosemite, because Yosemite was the 
> version of macOS that came installed on the first models of TouchBar Macs.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:22, Greg Wocher  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> How you do this depends on which version of Mac OS you are running. I will 
> give the instructions for Mac OS Ventura since that is what I am running.
> 1. Open up System settings.
> 2. Once in the list of settings find keyboard by either arrowing around until 
> you find it or start typing keyboard and it should jump you right to it. 
> 3. Once you find keyboard use VO plus right arrow to move to the keyboard 
> scroll area and interact with it.
> 4. Now VO right arrow till you hear keyboard shortcuts button and activate 
> it. 
> 5. Once you activate the button it will put you on a table of different 
> sections you can find keyboard shortcuts for. Interact with this table.
> 6. Once you interact, use VO plus down arrow to move to a button that says 
> function keys and activate it.
> 7. Once you activate the button stop interacting and move to the right with 
> VO plus right arrow and you will be able to activate the option to use 
> function keys as normal F1 thru F12.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I am using a Logitech xm keys.
>> Very very nice to type at.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee :
>>> 
>>> Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
>>> aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
>>> vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of 
>>> them. Some may require an application
>>> to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
>>> under Windows.
>>> 
>>> I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not 
>>> involve the Fn key but does reduce the
>>> number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with 
>>> all Voiceover commands?
>>> Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
>>> Bless!
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
>>> "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few accomplish
>>> it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20221108172328.wushzxyl2hoqpkg5%40dlee.org.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Bradford Snyder]

On macOS versions prior to Ventura, go to System Preferences > Keyboard, select 
the Keyboard tab, and navigate to the checkbox labeled "use function keys as 
normal F1 thru F12”.

Note:  When using  some Logitech keyboards, the option to change the behavior 
of F-keys does not exist.
In this case, you must press the Fn key, along with the VO modifier, in order 
to perform VoiceOver functions that use F-keys.

As an alternative, on macOS versions beginning with Yosemite and later, it may 
be possible to use NumberRow keys in combination with the VO modifier, to 
perform VO functions that require F-keys.
This became an option, with the introduction of the TouchBar Macs, and is 
available on all Macs beginning with macOS Yosemite, because Yosemite was the 
version of macOS that came installed on the first models of TouchBar Macs.

HTH.

- Brad -



On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:22, Greg Wocher  wrote:

Hello,
How you do this depends on which version of Mac OS you are running. I will give 
the instructions for Mac OS Ventura since that is what I am running.
1. Open up System settings.
2. Once in the list of settings find keyboard by either arrowing around until 
you find it or start typing keyboard and it should jump you right to it. 
3. Once you find keyboard use VO plus right arrow to move to the keyboard 
scroll area and interact with it.
4. Now VO right arrow till you hear keyboard shortcuts button and activate it. 
5. Once you activate the button it will put you on a table of different 
sections you can find keyboard shortcuts for. Interact with this table.
6. Once you interact, use VO plus down arrow to move to a button that says 
function keys and activate it.
7. Once you activate the button stop interacting and move to the right with VO 
plus right arrow and you will be able to activate the option to use function 
keys as normal F1 thru F12.

Greg Wocher


> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am using a Logitech xm keys.
> Very very nice to type at.
> /A
> 
>> 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee :
>> 
>> Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
>> aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
>> vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of 
>> them. Some may require an application
>> to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
>> under Windows.
>> 
>> I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not involve 
>> the Fn key but does reduce the
>> number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>> Hi!
>> Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with 
>> all Voiceover commands?
>> Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
>> Bless!
>> /A
>> 
>> --
>> Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
>> "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few accomplish
>> it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20221108172328.wushzxyl2hoqpkg5%40dlee.org.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussi

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Lorie McCloud]

this is great! I’m having trouble with a keyboard I bought that has this same 
issue. do you know anything about how I would do this in Catalina?

> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:22 PM, Greg Wocher  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> How you do this depends on which version of Mac OS you are running. I will 
> give the instructions for Mac OS Ventura since that is what I am running.
> 1. Open up System settings.
> 2. Once in the list of settings find keyboard by either arrowing around until 
> you find it or start typing keyboard and it should jump you right to it. 
> 3. Once you find keyboard use VO plus right arrow to move to the keyboard 
> scroll area and interact with it.
> 4. Now VO right arrow till you hear keyboard shortcuts button and activate 
> it. 
> 5. Once you activate the button it will put you on a table of different 
> sections you can find keyboard shortcuts for. Interact with this table.
> 6. Once you interact, use VO plus down arrow to move to a button that says 
> function keys and activate it.
> 7. Once you activate the button stop interacting and move to the right with 
> VO plus right arrow and you will be able to activate the option to use 
> function keys as normal F1 thru F12.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I am using a Logitech xm keys.
>> Very very nice to type at.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee :
>>> 
>>> Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
>>> aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
>>> vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of 
>>> them. Some may require an application
>>> to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
>>> under Windows.
>>> 
>>> I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not 
>>> involve the Fn key but does reduce the
>>> number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with 
>>> all Voiceover commands?
>>> Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
>>> Bless!
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
>>> "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few accomplish
>>> it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20221108172328.wushzxyl2hoqpkg5%40dlee.org.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AABF702E-9F0F-469C-9A41-8281F9EC54A6%40pipkrokodil.se.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you ca

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Greg Wocher]

Hello,
How you do this depends on which version of Mac OS you are running. I will give 
the instructions for Mac OS Ventura since that is what I am running.
1. Open up System settings.
2. Once in the list of settings find keyboard by either arrowing around until 
you find it or start typing keyboard and it should jump you right to it. 
3. Once you find keyboard use VO plus right arrow to move to the keyboard 
scroll area and interact with it.
4. Now VO right arrow till you hear keyboard shortcuts button and activate it. 
5. Once you activate the button it will put you on a table of different 
sections you can find keyboard shortcuts for. Interact with this table.
6. Once you interact, use VO plus down arrow to move to a button that says 
function keys and activate it.
7. Once you activate the button stop interacting and move to the right with VO 
plus right arrow and you will be able to activate the option to use function 
keys as normal F1 thru F12.

Greg Wocher


> On Nov 8, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am using a Logitech xm keys.
> Very very nice to type at.
> /A
> 
>> 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee :
>> 
>> Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
>> aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
>> vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of 
>> them. Some may require an application
>> to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
>> under Windows.
>> 
>> I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not involve 
>> the Fn key but does reduce the
>> number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>> Hi!
>> Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with 
>> all Voiceover commands?
>> Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
>> Bless!
>> /A
>> 
>> --
>> Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
>> "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few accomplish
>> it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20221108172328.wushzxyl2hoqpkg5%40dlee.org.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AABF702E-9F0F-469C-9A41-8281F9EC54A6%40pipkrokodil.se.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macv

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I am using a Logitech xm keys.
Very very nice to type at.
/A

> 8 nov. 2022 kl. 18:23 skrev Doug Lee :
> 
> Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
> aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
> vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of them. 
> Some may require an application
> to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that 
> under Windows.
> 
> I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not involve 
> the Fn key but does reduce the
> number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.
> 
> On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
> Hi!
> Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with all 
> Voiceover commands?
> Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
> Bless!
> /A
> 
> --
> Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
> "It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few accomplish
> it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20221108172328.wushzxyl2hoqpkg5%40dlee.org.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AABF702E-9F0F-469C-9A41-8281F9EC54A6%40pipkrokodil.se.

Re: Voiceover and f keys.

[Doug Lee]

Which keyboard are you using? I don't have to use Fn from a wired Apple 
aluminum keyboard. Bluetooth keyboards
vary in how to do this I think. I've seen Fn+Esc toggle this on some of them. 
Some may require an application
to change this behavior, though I've only worked with keyboards like that under 
Windows.

I'm assuming you are not asking about Quick Nav mode, which does not involve 
the Fn key but does reduce the
number of simultaneous keys you have to press for a number of commands.

On Tue, Nov 08, 2022 at 06:14:32PM +0100, Anders Holmberg wrote:
Hi!
Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with all 
Voiceover commands?
Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
Bless!
/A

--
Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
"It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few accomplish
it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20221108172328.wushzxyl2hoqpkg5%40dlee.org.

Voiceover and f keys.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Can someone remind me on how to do to not having to press the fn key with all 
Voiceover commands?
Some commands with function keys are very hard to perform.
Bless!
/A

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E9C221D0-F878-4A17-BBCB-8E4E0DA7A247%40pipkrokodil.se.