Re: Nokia and MS
On 13 February 2011 22:59, Jeremiah C. Foster jerem...@jeremiahfoster.comwrote: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 09:01:23PM +0100, Klaus Umbach wrote: On 11.02.11 13:25, Demetris wrote: How does this affect the future of Maemo on Nokia's devices? Maemo is dead and Meego will die, too. Don't be so sure. MeeGo is a set of vertical Linux distros. There are other phone manufacturers interested in the Handset vertical, car companies in the IVI vertical, and there is some serious traction in the TV vertical. MeeGo is hosted at the Linux Foundation, so it has nothing to do with Nokia in the end. That's for sure, however I definitely won't expect MeeGo evolving too much (at all?) within Nokia from now on. There are loads of speculations floating around since Friday and in fact we all don't know what future is going to bring us but in my eyes by coupling with Microsoft, Nokia has effectively killed off MeeGo internally - whether we like it or not. Even if the community supports Maemo/Meego, there will be no new hardware and one day my n900 will be broken... Nokia claims to be releasing a MeeGo device this year. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if that was *the last* MeeGo device from Nokia, too. I am very sceptical about all that and don't really buy that redefintion of MeeGo within Nokia as a learning platform for future disruptions. Even if it somehow survives within Nokia as a side project for geeks, it won't receive serious support, just as Maemo never did. On top of that, Techcrunch speculates [1] that MeeGo device this year is going to be *keyboard-less* N9-01 model, which makes me personally about 98.83% less interested in taking it. Having said that, I'd rather back the community effort to bring the best MeeGo experience to N900 rather than focusing on developing Maemo 5 further (however I appreciate that) which is officially dead anyway and its community is only going to shrink from now on. [1] http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/02/12/intel-kept-in-the-dark-over-nokia%E2%80%99s-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/ -- Dawid 'evad' Lorenz * http://dawid.lorenz.co null:// I haven't lost my mind - it's backed up on disk somewhere ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Nokia and MS
Am 14.02.2011 11:54, schrieb Dawid Lorenz: On 13 February 2011 22:59, Jeremiah C. Foster jerem...@jeremiahfoster.com mailto:jerem...@jeremiahfoster.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 09:01:23PM +0100, Klaus Umbach wrote: Even if the community supports Maemo/Meego, there will be no new hardware and one day my n900 will be broken... Nokia claims to be releasing a MeeGo device this year. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if that was *the last* MeeGo device from Nokia, too. +1 I am very sceptical about all that and don't really buy that redefintion of MeeGo within Nokia as a learning platform for future disruptions. Even if it somehow survives within Nokia as a side project for geeks, it won't receive serious support, just as Maemo never did. Well, having been involved in the Maemo development a little I have to disagree here. Nokia put very significant effort in Maemo and supporting it. But you are right to some extend, the effort they put into it did not lead to as much outside visibility as it would have deserved. On top of that, Techcrunch speculates [1] that MeeGo device this year is going to be *keyboard-less* N9-01 model, which makes me personally about 98.83% less interested in taking it. Having said that, I'd rather back the community effort to bring the best MeeGo experience to N900 rather than focusing on developing Maemo 5 further (however I appreciate that) which is officially dead anyway and its community is only going to shrink from now on. Isn't what you say here effectively the choice between two dead horses? even if Intel wants to make Atom/Moorestown based mobiles a reality I have my strong doubts in them. And if I am right they will never produce a real world Intel based handset which would then, without Nokia, make MeeGo's mobile UX dispensable - and under cost pressure it will be canceled, just the same way as they just canceled the netbook UX (with braindead reasoning but that's another story). I would then rather choose the horse/platform with most and best experience (Maemo5) instead of waiting for the other dead horse to grow beyond infantility. I think we now have the incredible chance of having a pretty mature platform (Maemo5) at hand in the open which we, the community, can further develop and extend without the need for any manufacturer support. We have devices and we have the platform. What else does it take? Concerning MeeGo I am extremely sceptical about its further development and almost as sceptical for Qt's future too. What will happen to Qt if Nokia reduces its effort into it? Nobody knows. But with GTK+ it is quite the contrary. GTK+ is a community effort from the early beginning and has an active community further developing it. Slower than Qt, admittedly, but it is working out. What happens when large companies dump gigabytes of sourcecode into the open has been proven a lot of times already - in 90% of cases the source starts to bit-rot. So I think we should free as much of Maemo5 as possible(*), put it into the open and ask Nokia for a guarantee of keeping the internet platforms (namely *.maemo.org) up and running or at least give enough time to mirror them to some other hosting service. And then make Maemo5 *the* true open source mobile platform. There are other devices evolving which could need it - google for GTA04 for example. And once it has been ported to another device (for the timebeing I am not aware of any Maemo port to non-Nokia hardware) other manufacturers will surely jump - not everyone wants Android but it is currently the most portable and featureful platform. We could change that. (*) I am unsure how much of Maemo5 Fremantle is still closed. As far as I know it still contains quite some closed source components. A list of closed components would be good to have BTW... Dawid 'evad' Lorenz * http://dawid.lorenz.co http://dawid.lorenz.co/ Cheers nils -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 http://www.kernelconcepts.de ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Nokia and MS
Am 14.02.2011 14:27, schrieb Hämäläinen Kimmo: On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 13:07 +0100, ext Nils Faerber wrote: ... I am very sceptical about all that and don't really buy that redefintion of MeeGo within Nokia as a learning platform for future disruptions. Even if it somehow survives within Nokia as a side project for geeks, it won't receive serious support, just as Maemo never did. I heard Intel is still working on future MeeGo devices. Sure, I guess they really are but I doubt that any of them will be picked up by a manufacturer so that John Doe open source developer can actually buy one in their home country. The first Nokia 770 tablets were even problematic to get in some areas of the globe. (*) I am unsure how much of Maemo5 Fremantle is still closed. As far as I know it still contains quite some closed source components. A list of closed components would be good to have BTW... Here is a list, dunno how up-to-date, though: http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages Ah, thanks for the pointer! At least a good start! -Kimmo Cheers nils -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 http://www.kernelconcepts.de ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Nokia and MS
Hi, Hämäläinen Kimmo wrote: On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 13:07 +0100, ext Nils Faerber wrote: ... I am very sceptical about all that and don't really buy that redefintion of MeeGo within Nokia as a learning platform for future disruptions. Even if it somehow survives within Nokia as a side project for geeks, it won't receive serious support, just as Maemo never did. I heard Intel is still working on future MeeGo devices. Yes! I imagine that Intel will also be happy to see Atom chips in smartphones in the near future, and will be happy to see a good clean reference smartphone UX available. The question is whether we'll get one, and whether Nokia will open up all of the UX app work they're doing on top of the MeeGo stack once the device is on the market. If that happens, and anyone can take MeeGo put it on a phone in the same way they can with Android, the handset UX has a small but fighting chance. My understanding of Nokia's position, put simply, is We don't think there's a future in MeeGo on smartphones, but we're not sure, so we're going to hedge our bets and keep our hand in. Also, we signed a big partnership agreement to do MeeGo, and backing out of it now would cost us a ton of money. We'll do the minimum that the partnership requires. On the other hand, I still don't find it interesting to talk about Nokia's MeeGo strategy, but I *do* think it's useful to discuss the post-Elopocalyse MeeGo strategy. Cheers, Dave. -- Email: dne...@maemo.org Jabber: bo...@jabber.org ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
