Re: [maemo-developers] Java on the 770
2006/11/16, Jesper Zuschlag <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Actually, from what I have been told by several ARM representatives its the other way around. It's funny, because Sun is insisting; from: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6857451192.html Eric Chu, senior director for the mobile and embedded market at Sun, says: "We won't be able to put everything out there [under the GPL]. For example, in our commercial product, we have integration with Jazelle. Obviously, we cannot put that code into open source. So in the open source version, we will take out some of the pieces that have third party IP, that we don't have the right to open source. Whereas with the commercial product, in some cases, we already have some of those commercial relationships in place that allow us to include those pieces." Something in the Jazelle architecture is covered by one or more Sun patents, which means that ARM cannot disclose the architectural details to 3rd parties that isn't Sun- licensees. I believe that in view of the recent open-sourcing of Java, Sun and ARM should sit together and solve this issue so that we can use the full potential of our devices. I find this whole situation ridiculously. /Jesper ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Java on the 770
Actually, from what I have been told by several ARM representatives its the other way around. Something in the Jazelle architecture is covered by one or more Sun patents, which means that ARM cannot disclose the architectural details to 3rd parties that isn't Sun- licensees. I believe that in view of the recent open-sourcing of Java, Sun and ARM should sit together and solve this issue so that we can use the full potential of our devices. I find this whole situation ridiculously. /Jesper On 16. Nov 2006, at 06:29, Luis Montes wrote: Mathieu Lacage wrote: On Tue, 2006-11-14 at 09:47 +0100, Jesper Zuschlag wrote: Unfortunately it doesn't seems so as the Jazelle-related code (/ src/ vm/cpu/arm/jazelle) has been removed from the PhoneME Feature release. Maybe Sun could be convinced to resolve this issue with ARM as they always points at Sun as being the source to the non- disclosure policy due to some patent issue. I find it completely ridiculous to have an undocumented instruction set on a generally available CPU, which I have told ARM at any given occasion. However, they haven't really been ready to see it from that point of view. >From a business perspective, I suspect that Sun is more interested in keeping this private as it is a way for them to extract licenses from the embedded guys and this represents quite a bit of money. Mathieu Seems more likely to me that Sun can't give away code that they have only licensed from ARM. As stupid as it may be, Jazelle specifications are proprietary to ARM and ARM is probably the one that would object to Sun releasing jazelle-related code. You'd think a hardware manufacturer would want people to be able to actually use the hardware they purchase. If we want Jazelle to work on the 770 it's up to nokia to negotiate with ARM. Thus far we have seen very little interest from Nokia in bringing a JVM to the 770. Luis ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Java on the 770
Mathieu Lacage wrote: On Tue, 2006-11-14 at 09:47 +0100, Jesper Zuschlag wrote: Unfortunately it doesn't seems so as the Jazelle-related code (/src/ vm/cpu/arm/jazelle) has been removed from the PhoneME Feature release. Maybe Sun could be convinced to resolve this issue with ARM as they always points at Sun as being the source to the non- disclosure policy due to some patent issue. I find it completely ridiculous to have an undocumented instruction set on a generally available CPU, which I have told ARM at any given occasion. However, they haven't really been ready to see it from that point of view. >From a business perspective, I suspect that Sun is more interested in keeping this private as it is a way for them to extract licenses from the embedded guys and this represents quite a bit of money. Mathieu Seems more likely to me that Sun can't give away code that they have only licensed from ARM. As stupid as it may be, Jazelle specifications are proprietary to ARM and ARM is probably the one that would object to Sun releasing jazelle-related code. You'd think a hardware manufacturer would want people to be able to actually use the hardware they purchase. If we want Jazelle to work on the 770 it's up to nokia to negotiate with ARM. Thus far we have seen very little interest from Nokia in bringing a JVM to the 770. Luis ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Java on the 770
On Tue, 2006-11-14 at 09:47 +0100, Jesper Zuschlag wrote: > Unfortunately it doesn't seems so as the Jazelle-related code (/src/ > vm/cpu/arm/jazelle) has been removed from the PhoneME Feature > release. Maybe Sun could be convinced to resolve this issue with ARM > as they always points at Sun as being the source to the non- > disclosure policy due to some patent issue. > > I find it completely ridiculous to have an undocumented instruction > set on a generally available CPU, which I have told ARM at any given > occasion. However, they haven't really been ready to see it from that > point of view. >From a business perspective, I suspect that Sun is more interested in keeping this private as it is a way for them to extract licenses from the embedded guys and this represents quite a bit of money. Mathieu -- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Java on the 770
Unfortunately it doesn't seems so as the Jazelle-related code (/src/ vm/cpu/arm/jazelle) has been removed from the PhoneME Feature release. Maybe Sun could be convinced to resolve this issue with ARM as they always points at Sun as being the source to the non- disclosure policy due to some patent issue. I find it completely ridiculous to have an undocumented instruction set on a generally available CPU, which I have told ARM at any given occasion. However, they haven't really been ready to see it from that point of view. /Jesper On 14. Nov 2006, at 02:50, Andrew Barr wrote: On Monday 13 November 2006 20:45, Victor Toni wrote: Now that Java will be put under the GPL is there any plan (from Nokia) to integrate it into the firmware? People would be glad even without the proprietary Jazelle extensions. Speaking of which, is this recent announcement any reason that we might finally get details on those? Or is ARM Ltd. going to continue to be asinine (IMHO) on that? And it would open the 770 to many more applications. Kindest regards, Victor ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Andrew Barr Now playing: Sting - Jeremiah Blues (Part 1) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Java on the 770
On Monday 13 November 2006 20:45, Victor Toni wrote: > Now that Java will be put under the GPL is there any plan (from Nokia) > to integrate it into the firmware? > People would be glad even without the proprietary Jazelle extensions. Speaking of which, is this recent announcement any reason that we might finally get details on those? Or is ARM Ltd. going to continue to be asinine (IMHO) on that? > And it would open the 770 to many more applications. > > Kindest regards, > Victor > ___ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Andrew Barr Now playing: Sting - Jeremiah Blues (Part 1) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Java on the 770
Now that Java will be put under the GPL is there any plan (from Nokia) to integrate it into the firmware? People would be glad even without the proprietary Jazelle extensions. And it would open the 770 to many more applications. Kindest regards, Victor ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Java on the 770 (who cares about licensing)
Hi, I will be putting SableVM, Classpath, and Knopflerfish OSGI altogether on the 770. I invite all the willing to help. I have not quite started yet. I am still gathering intelligence on how to best perform this task. I do not have unlimited resources. I was the lead Designer of Browser Development and wrote a fair portion of the Browser UI for the 770 at Nokia. I designed the GTK+ Opera widget. I was formerly also at Transvirtual Technologies, the pioneers of Embedded Lunux and Java. I implemented a little-known analog (NIH syndrome) to Rhino called XS (XoeScript). We at Gatespace Telematics are determined to offer the best possible open-source CDC-OSGI Java platform. We are beginning in the open-source Java world but are determined to bring in our resources to see this package grow and eventually be chosen by Nokia as THE Java platform for Maemo. I foresee the need for MIDP so all efforts in that direction are great! We foresee a scheme where a midlet's byte-code would be downloaded to a device and precompiled to native at installation. GCJ is definitely a player here. Despite its seeming excessive long-term memory consumption, this scheme is already in deployment in the mobile industry. I think that SOOT will help in reducing the byte-code size (and thus save money for the user). Of course also to rename all identifiers to shorter strings with some other tool. And what else, then? I haven't looked into this very deeply at all. OMA standards are used to get the midlet onto the device. We are behind the BSD-licensed Knopflerfish implementation and will be proud to demonstrate our leading product for Telematics using the 770. Gatespace Telematics has at this point no contract with Nokia. I would also like to invite all to take a look at Knopflerfish. The web site is bad, but it awaits a major revamp. Gatespace *used* to have 60 employees. There is a fair chance that we will also be completing the GCJ-Classpath webplugin, and thus have Applet support in Mozilla/Minimo. A prerequisite for that would be signed jars support in Classpath. We would do the rest. Another thing we might do is add profile options to the Classpath build system if they don't exist yet. I hope that many will find this interesting and want to join in some way. Best Regards, -- Philippe Laporte Director of OMA and Embedded Development Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
