Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
2006/8/30, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, But you do have! Just click the LXR link on the left of the tutorial page. The Hildon framework sources are publicly available (and have been for a long time). Unfortunately when people say sources for 770 they do tend to mean IT200x (the product) too and not only Maemo (the platform). Yes, but the section that had been quoted, was titled: Main differences between Gnome and Hildon application framework IMHO one would need to be pretty blind not see that the title was: Hildon application framework instead of: ALL the software on an Open Source based Commercial product with proprietary components :-) While your good faith in humanity is refreshing and an admirable additude ;), I'm afraid that people really ARE that blind when they have certain expectations already. The expectations were/are generated by the news all over internet, and community blog aggregation sites are not the smallest medium of generating expectations. For example, LinuxWorld review starts with: What's particularly compelling about the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet is that it's not only the first to be billed as an Internet Tablet, but also its software is built entirely from open source components. so it's only natural to be fooled. I don't mean to blame anyone for misinforming, not at all, but the only spot where this misconception and generalisation possibly could have been prevented was in the initial introductions. And knowing how accurate the media can be in its articles regardless of the facts given to them, it's not realistic to believe it would have helped that much :/ (I still think the LXR link should be renamed Platform source-code or something like that.) Yeah, if you are not already familiar with the system it could say XYZ instead and not make a difference... -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
On tis, 2006-08-29 at 12:52 -0300, ext Alessandro Ikeuchi wrote: I wish the Notes instead of Maemopad. My english is so bad? Sorry. May be in portuguese: Eu quero o código fonte do Notes, o Maemopad não me interessa... E eu quero que você também explique o motivo de gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor(mybuffer, \u00E3, -1); não funcionar para Unicode. Não afronte minha inteligência, você não tem nada a ganhar com isso... Could *PLEASE* stop cross-posting between maemo-users and maemo-devel? If you intend to continue flaming, please keep the flames on one list. Regards: David -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
Hi, On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of show me these crap links (that I searched many times) WHY YOU DON'T SEND ME THE Notes SOURCES, hein? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/mistral/free/source/m/maemopad/ You can always use apt-get source command. I am sure that five minutes of hack and I would achieve my goals... Good luck. -- Eduardo de Barros Lima INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 10:05:41AM -0300, Eduardo de Barros Lima wrote: On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of show me these crap links (that I searched many times) WHY YOU DON'T SEND ME THE Notes SOURCES, hein? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/mistral/free/source/m/maemopad/ You can always use apt-get source command. MaemoPad and Notes are two different applications. Marius Gedminas -- Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
Marius Gedminas wrote: On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 10:05:41AM -0300, Eduardo de Barros Lima wrote: On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of show me these crap links (that I searched many times) WHY YOU DON'T SEND ME THE Notes SOURCES, hein? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/mistral/free/source/m/maemopad/ You can always use apt-get source command. MaemoPad and Notes are two different applications. Marius Gedminas ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers Ola, As I see it the problem is this: On http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial.html#differences we have: There are plenty of other small differences, *some* of which are explained in this tutorial. (my emphasis). Now the only way to change that *some* into an *all* is to give us (the community) either easy access to the source code (best) or access to the person/s who wrote these differences so we can find out how they affect the code we write and then we can document it ourselves. Maybe a start to resolving this question would be if Nokia employed a few people to monitor this list waiting for issues like bluetooth, multimedia framework etc to crop up and then making it their mission to get an answer/reply to the community as soon as possible. The worst thing is some question falling into a black hole as this pisses intelligent people (like OSS hackers) off if they do not have a way to answer it for themselves. HTH -- -- Ian Lawrence Centre for Bioinformatics INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE PESQUISAS DA AMAZÔNIA – INPA RUA ANDRÉ ARAÚJO N º .2936 – BAIRRO DO ALEIXO MANAUS-AMAZONAS-BRAZIL PPBio – Research Program in Biodiversity http://ppbio.inpa.gov.br | Please do not send me documents in a closed | format.(*.doc,*.xls,*.ppt) | Use the open alternatives. (*.pdf,*.html,*.txt) http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html The state can't give you free speech, and the state can't take it away. You're born with it, like your eyes, like your ears. Freedom is something you assume, then you wait for someone to try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free... ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
I wish the Notes instead of Maemopad. My english is so bad? Sorry. May be in portuguese: Eu quero o código fonte do Notes, o Maemopad não me interessa... E eu quero que você também explique o motivo de gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor(mybuffer, \u00E3, -1); não funcionar para Unicode. Não afronte minha inteligência, você não tem nada a ganhar com isso... -Original Message- From: Eduardo de Barros Lima [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: terça-feira, 29 de agosto de 2006 10:06 To: Alessandro Ikeuchi Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org; maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop Hi, On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of show me these crap links (that I searched many times) WHY YOU DON'T SEND ME THE Notes SOURCES, hein? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/mistral/free/source/m/maemopad/ You can always use apt-get source command. I am sure that five minutes of hack and I would achieve my goals... Good luck. -- Eduardo de Barros Lima INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Essa mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao seu destinatário e pode conter informações confidenciais, protegidas por sigilo profissional ou cuja divulgação seja proibida por lei. O uso não autorizado de tais informações é proibido e está sujeito às penalidades cabíveis. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by a professional privilege or whose disclosure is prohibited by law. Unauthorized use of such information is prohibited and subject to applicable penalties. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
2006/8/29, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, There are plenty of other small differences, *some* of which are explained in this tutorial. (my emphasis). Now the only way to change that *some* into an *all* is to give us (the community) either easy access to the source code (best) But you do have! Just click the LXR link on the left of the tutorial page. The Hildon framework sources are publicly available (and have been for a long time). Unfortunately when people say sources for 770 they do tend to mean IT200x (the product) too and not only Maemo (the platform). I think there was not enough separation made between the two (not that the difference would be that obvious though) in the initial launch, which lead to different expectations than what came to reality. This coupled to the fact that the original release for the sources was sluggish made for disappointments in the open source community that, quite frankly, isn't that sensitive to the issues that the so-called corporate people have. So while the initial marriage of open source and corporate[1] wasn't too smooth all around, to my eye it is definitely developing in the right direction and has come a long way from where it began. Having met some of the nice people doing this work and thinking on how to improve it (hi tigert :) I'm sure it will get better all the time. Now, it would be crucial to get some community work integrated to the product too so that people will see how their input is valuable and welcome. One way of doing this would be to organise a hackfest during which there would be some features developed and bugs fixed by the community with the support of Maemo-staff. I'm not sure how well patches from the maemo.org bugzilla have been received, I remember hearing of maybe one patch that has been applied (but there must be others, right?). Getting the component maintainers to hang out in IRC reviewing community patches as a dedicated effort would definitely help on bridging the gap between the two worlds in my opinion. Who knows if such a thing would make the maemo developers receive not only complaints but fixes too ;) [1] I'm only using this word as I'm not sure what would be a better one. commercial is not what I mean here, but rather the goals and work flow differences. -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Powered by http://movial.fi Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bah... My future features are more realistic: -source codes; -more reliable API docs; -more reliable SDK docs; Instead of complaining about everything and blaming everyone, you could use your time to do something more productive (e.g., googling). Have you discovered one of the following pages? http://maemo.org/community/getting-involved.html https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/ http://maemo.org/platform/docs/api-index.html http://maemo.org/platform/docs/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial.html There are a lot more. I'm sure you'll find them. Best Regards, -- Eduardo de Barros Lima [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
Yes, I did, and none work for me... This list included. Funny, I learned a lot of GTK and it was surprisingly easy to develop on it, for Maemo even the most basic is a nightmare. Instead of show me these crap links (that I searched many times) WHY YOU DON'T SEND ME THE Notes SOURCES, hein? I am sure that five minutes of hack and I would achieve my goals... And I am not blaming EVERYONE, only the people from Nokia, may be you, at Recife... And I blame as customer, because I bought and I paid, and this cash is supposed to pay wages for competent and skillful work, not for a crap where simple dead keys became a bad trip. And what's this? There are a lot more. I'm sure you'll find them. Are you kidding me? There's solid GTK docs, no doubt, but for Maemo? Even the samples are broken... Linux has thousands of apps, Maemos is around since when? Almost one year? And all we have is that pathetic list were the most useful are console based apps... It´s yours lot more? I never needed to get involved, linux docs is online, linux from scratch is available for everyone. Just read it, and read again, let´s open the damn header file if necessary... Because the sources are there as is... Alessandro Linux User since 1999 and unhappy nokia 770 owner since june/2006 -Original Message- From: Eduardo de Barros Lima [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: segunda-feira, 28 de agosto de 2006 18:56 To: Alessandro Ikeuchi Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org; maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bah... My future features are more realistic: -source codes; -more reliable API docs; -more reliable SDK docs; Instead of complaining about everything and blaming everyone, you could use your time to do something more productive (e.g., googling). Have you discovered one of the following pages? http://maemo.org/community/getting-involved.html https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/ http://maemo.org/platform/docs/api-index.html http://maemo.org/platform/docs/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial.html There are a lot more. I'm sure you'll find them. Best Regards, -- Eduardo de Barros Lima [EMAIL PROTECTED] Essa mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao seu destinatário e pode conter informações confidenciais, protegidas por sigilo profissional ou cuja divulgação seja proibida por lei. O uso não autorizado de tais informações é proibido e está sujeito às penalidades cabíveis. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by a professional privilege or whose disclosure is prohibited by law. Unauthorized use of such information is prohibited and subject to applicable penalties. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
Alessandro, I think got you already and I'll help (although you do not deserve this): I buy your device. How much do you want for it ? On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I did, and none work for me... This list included. Funny, I learned a lot of GTK and it was surprisingly easy to develop on it, for Maemo even the most basic is a nightmare. Instead of show me these crap links (that I searched many times) WHY YOU DON'T SEND ME THE Notes SOURCES, hein? I am sure that five minutes of hack and I would achieve my goals... And I am not blaming EVERYONE, only the people from Nokia, may be you, at Recife... And I blame as customer, because I bought and I paid, and this cash is supposed to pay wages for competent and skillful work, not for a crap where simple dead keys became a bad trip. And what's this? There are a lot more. I'm sure you'll find them. Are you kidding me? There's solid GTK docs, no doubt, but for Maemo? Even the samples are broken... Linux has thousands of apps, Maemos is around since when? Almost one year? And all we have is that pathetic list were the most useful are console based apps... It´s yours lot more? I never needed to get involved, linux docs is online, linux from scratch is available for everyone. Just read it, and read again, let´s open the damn header file if necessary... Because the sources are there as is... Alessandro Linux User since 1999 and unhappy nokia 770 owner since june/2006 -Original Message- From: Eduardo de Barros Lima [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: segunda-feira, 28 de agosto de 2006 18:56 To: Alessandro Ikeuchi Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org; maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bah... My future features are more realistic: -source codes; -more reliable API docs; -more reliable SDK docs; Instead of complaining about everything and blaming everyone, you could use your time to do something more productive (e.g., googling). Have you discovered one of the following pages? http://maemo.org/community/getting-involved.html https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/ http://maemo.org/platform/docs/api-index.html http://maemo.org/platform/docs/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial.html There are a lot more. I'm sure you'll find them. Best Regards, -- Eduardo de Barros Lima [EMAIL PROTECTED] Essa mensagem é destinada exclusivamente ao seu destinatário e pode conter informações confidenciais, protegidas por sigilo profissional ou cuja divulgação seja proibida por lei. O uso não autorizado de tais informações é proibido e está sujeito às penalidades cabíveis. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by a professional privilege or whose disclosure is prohibited by law. Unauthorized use of such information is prohibited and subject to applicable penalties. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- --Antonio Gomes ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] RE: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop
Hi, I think we are wasting our time trying to help someone who doesn't deserve this time. Let's go back to the work and make something more productive and redirect his comments to /dev/null. There are a lot of developers developing software for 770 today. I agree with the idea of open the OS2006 and the SDK development even more, but blaming the Nokia developer isn't the right way to do this. Alessandro, if you don't like your 770, why don't you sell it to another developer in Brazil? There are a lot of people interested in 770 here and Nokia does not sell this device here yet. Thanks, Osvaldo On 8/28/06, Eduardo de Barros Lima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/28/06, Alessandro Ikeuchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bah... My future features are more realistic: -source codes; -more reliable API docs; -more reliable SDK docs; Instead of complaining about everything and blaming everyone, you could use your time to do something more productive (e.g., googling). Have you discovered one of the following pages? [cut-a-lot-of-useful-links-to-reliable-documentation] -- Osvaldo Santana Neto (aCiDBaSe) icq, url = (11287184, http://www.pythonbrasil.com.br;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] Re: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop (Task Navigator, Home, Status bar)?
Hi, And lastly, the Task Navigator bar width should be configurable. There is no reason for its fattness as it is - it is just a waste of desktop realstate, IMHO. Actually, there is a reason -- so that you could hit the icons with your thumb. It would be difficult if the bar was slimmer, or the icons smaller. I think making Task Navigator thinner would also require new theme. Besides the TN graphics, the Desktop and titlebar gfx elements would seem to depend from the current size. The installed plugins also expect at least a certain width into which their icons fit. So, maybe the new feature would be to make TN width into themable property... Then somebody could make a thumbless theme. ;-) - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] Re: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop (Task Navigator, Home, Status bar)?
2006/8/18, Alfonso F R [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[skipped] -Having the posibility to navigate the whole linux file system from the graphical file manager (maybe inactive by default and activable through an option within the control panel or something like that) Also with full gnome-vfs support, with the possibility to create persistent mountpoint for external sources (ftp://, sftp://, ...), maybe implemented as optional package installable via application manager. This feature is (except for the mountpoints part) already implemented in gpe-filemanager, but having it in the official filemanager would be nice. Luca Donaggio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] Re: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop (Task Navigator, Home, Status bar)?
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 18:09 +0100, ext Peter Robinson wrote: snip - Expanded power management. This is more kernel than actual UI but some of the things that I've seen around for projects like OLPC where if the sound driver isn't used for a couple of seconds its shut down etc. Things like the USB port, in the general scheme of things, aren't used very often so could (not sure if they are all ready) be shut down most of the time to save battery (saw a blog entry somewhere where someone played with the shutdown of usb when not in use and saved a couple of watts). Done already, check the power management and drivers code. Next? Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] Re: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop (Task Navigator, Home, Status bar)?
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 20:15 +0300, Igor Stoppa wrote: Done already, check the power management and drivers code. Next? If anything, power management on the 770 is too aggressive. You'll know what I mean if you've ever tried to SSH into it over a WiFi link. So maybe more control over the various PM features would be nice. -- Andrew Barr | http://www.oakcourt.dyndns.org/~andrew/ All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual (1925) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-users] Re: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop (Task Navigator, Home, Status bar)?
2006/8/18, Andrew Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 20:15 +0300, Igor Stoppa wrote: Done already, check the power management and drivers code. Next? If anything, power management on the 770 is too aggressive. You'll know what I mean if you've ever tried to SSH into it over a WiFi link. Strange, this seems to work for me just fine in v2006. The other day I noticed I was still logged in after weeks to the device. And also logging in has no noticeble delay compared with other sites on the net, only on local ethernet it goes faster. I use the dropbear pkg btw. Regards, Koos ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
