Re: OSM2Go & finger friendliness (was Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing)
Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:58:15 +0200 (MEST) "Till Harbaum" wrote: > > I do understand that everybody wants finger friendly guis Not everybody. I personally think that finger friendliness is a step backwards with such a gorgeous display, but then I'm not the target audience for the next device so my, possibly wrong, opinion doesn't really matter. Bye -- Luca ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing
Hi, > Did you try with hildon_gtk_button_new() ? Hmm, seems i can only choose between auto (the current default setting giving me a pretty big button) and half or full screen width giving me huge buttons. I am asking for small buttons. Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: OSM2Go & finger friendliness (was Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing)
Hi, i am pretty aware that maemo wants to be more finger friendly. And this is also good for some tasks osm2go was made for. Thus i have started to make e.g. all dialogs fit nicely into the new finger concept (my question regarding the dialog sizes is related to this as the bigger buttons often require bigger dialog boxes and sometimes even max sized dialogs). I also have recently made the object selection more "fuzzy" to with repect to the fact that it's hard to precisely hit a map object with the finger. But the map editing itself really isn't something that can't be precisely enough done with the fingers. The buttons i am talking about are the "ok" and "cancel" button in the bottom left corner. They are only used when editing and thus i think it's fine if they are small to leave more screen space for the actual map. The tagging you mention does not use these buttons and benefits from all the dialog/main gui changes i am doing. I do understand that everybody wants finger friendly guis and i'd actually prefer not to have to fiddle around with the stylus when walking or riding the bike while mapping with osm2go. But the screen is tiny and my fingers aren't. So everything that involves many objects and requires the user to have some degree of overview over these objects contradicts finger usage. > with all the data you gathered while being on the Go... and probably you > are going to prefer to do that still in front of your laptop. I usually draw "rough" objects on the go and then bring them in shape when i am back at home. BTW: What you mention here is in fact something which i think the maemo plattform seriously lacks. PalmOS had a nice mechanism for "synching". What you mention here really needs a similar mechanism so you can do the rough work on the road and then seamlessly continue on your laptop. Since osm2go runs on the desktop as well and can take advantage of the big screen, it could really benefit from such a mechanism. Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing
Hi, - original Nachricht > Perhaps. I would hope that developers would consider very carefully, > though, diverging from the standards of the platform - regardless of > their own opinions on finger-friendly vs. finger-unfriendly.[1] There are two things: a) this finger friendlyness is a new thing in fremantle and thus most software has to deal with the more stylus bound maemo4 and before as well as with the finger friendly fremantle. This doesn't make things easy for the developer. b) There are things where you just can't use your thumb. And any kind of CAD/drawing likely is one of these. I really wonder if fremantle will include a sketch app and how this is supposed to be used. Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing
Hi, thanks for the reply. I'll take a look at that. I must admit that i tend not to look at the hildon specific stuff as those always need a workaround for non-hildon setups. But perhaps i should look there more often and build some nice convenience functions to deal with both worlds. Thanks, Till - original Nachricht Betreff: Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing Gesendet: Do, 16. Apr 2009 Von: Claudio Saavedra > El jue, 16-04-2009 a las 21:36 +0200, Till Harbaum / Lists escribió: > > Hi, > > > > fremantle increases button sizes significantly to make them more finger > friendly. > > However, some applications like osm2go are imho not suited for finger > usage > > and those big buttons thus waste screen space. > > > > In diablo a button was barely bigger than e.g. the icon inside. How do i > get this > > behaviour in fremantle back? When i just force the button size to be > smaller, then > > the icon is shifted to the right half way out of the button. There seems > to be some > > fixed border involved. I tried to force the "inner-border" of the button > to 0,0,0,0 but > > that also doesn't change anything. > > > > How do i draw a button with an icon inside that isn't significantly bigger > than the > > icon itself in fremantle? > > Did you try with hildon_gtk_button_new() ? > > http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/pre-alpha/apis/libhildon-2.1.24/hildon-hildon- > gtk.html#hildon-gtk-button-new > > Claudio > > > --- original Nachricht Ende ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
OSM2Go & finger friendliness (was Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing)
Hi, ext Till Harbaum / Lists wrote: > Hi, > > fremantle increases button sizes significantly to make them more finger > friendly. > However, some applications like osm2go are imho not suited for finger usage > and those big buttons thus waste screen space. As Claudio says, http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/pre-alpha/apis/libhildon-2.1.24/hildon-hildon-gtk.html#hildon-gtk-button-new allows you to define the size you wish overriding the very-finger-friendly defaults. The Maemo UI offers a default, developers are able to go for alternatives. No need to repeat in maemo-developers the 'stylus wars' debate we are seeing these days in ITt. But speaking opf OSM2Go, I do think it is suitable for finger usage and I would encourage the project to think it twice. I'm a fan of this application and I'm willing to help giving ideas and testing. Your app is "2Go" and genuinely mobile. You are targeting several platform being Maemo the primary one. I guess mobility and touch are implied in the rest of platforms primarily supported. Yes, a stylus might be useful when it comes to draw lines in a map but I really wonder how frequent is in reality that use case compared to adding information to current maps. You do this by hitting a coordinate (and you have zoom), selecting a type of information and typing the infor related to it. Drawing is more for the end of the day, at home, with all the data you gathered while being on the Go... and probably you are going to prefer to do that still in front of your laptop. -- Quim Gil open source advocate Maemo Software @ Nokia ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 22:51, David Greaves wrote: > Andrew Flegg wrote: >> >> I don't know the answer to your question, but the "right" answer >> [...] > > Disagree. I quoted "right" because I /believe/ that's the answer the platform architects at Nokia would prefer. > I think you propose a possible answer - but although the platform > should be striving to make it very easy to develop finger-friendly > applications, I am *firmly* of the belief that it should not > prevent or hinder those who see mobility of stylus-based apps as a > tremendous benefit that the tablets provide. Perhaps. I would hope that developers would consider very carefully, though, diverging from the standards of the platform - regardless of their own opinions on finger-friendly vs. finger-unfriendly.[1] Now, I'm fairly firm in the belief that many of the problems aren't solved by either/or answers: for example, the "fat" scrollbars in Maemo to date may well be "finger friendly" - but they're a UI nightmare. Drag-to-scroll is finger/stylus agnostic and so is the best of both worlds. Admittedly, in this specific case of button sizes the agnostic solution is less clear. Cheers, Andrew [1] A similar argument would be made about "Cancel" buttons which, in Maemo 5, shouldn't be present; with the user dismissing a dialogue in different ways. The thread on ITT about it, in particular, was vehement - but I'd hope a developer who prefers "Cancel" buttons would accept that their users are benefited by consistency over the developer's personal opinion. -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing
Andrew Flegg wrote: > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 20:36, Till Harbaum / Lists wrote: >> fremantle increases button sizes significantly to make them more >> finger friendly. However, some applications like osm2go are imho >> not suited for finger usage and those big buttons thus waste >> screen space. > > I don't know the answer to your question, but the "right" answer would > be to redesign the application such that it /was/ suited for finger > usage. That's the direction the platform is going in and consistency > between applications on Maemo should be pretty high up everyone's > priority lists IMNSHO. Disagree. I think you propose a possible answer - but although the platform should be striving to make it very easy to develop finger-friendly applications, I am *firmly* of the belief that it should not prevent or hinder those who see mobility of stylus-based apps as a tremendous benefit that the tablets provide. If the gtk or Qt frameworks forced things like minimum button size that (IMNSHO) would be making a huge blunder :) (And I'm betting the answer is something like a larger default setting for the equivalent of http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qapplication.html#globalStrut-prop - but I guess you use gtk) David -- "Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it work in a cartoon once..." ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing
El jue, 16-04-2009 a las 21:36 +0200, Till Harbaum / Lists escribió: > Hi, > > fremantle increases button sizes significantly to make them more finger > friendly. > However, some applications like osm2go are imho not suited for finger usage > and those big buttons thus waste screen space. > > In diablo a button was barely bigger than e.g. the icon inside. How do i get > this > behaviour in fremantle back? When i just force the button size to be smaller, > then > the icon is shifted to the right half way out of the button. There seems to > be some > fixed border involved. I tried to force the "inner-border" of the button to > 0,0,0,0 but > that also doesn't change anything. > > How do i draw a button with an icon inside that isn't significantly bigger > than the > icon itself in fremantle? Did you try with hildon_gtk_button_new() ? http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/pre-alpha/apis/libhildon-2.1.24/hildon-hildon-gtk.html#hildon-gtk-button-new Claudio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing
Hi, Am Donnerstag 16 April 2009 schrieb Andrew Flegg: > I don't know the answer to your question, but the "right" answer would > be to redesign the application such that it /was/ suited for finger > usage. That's the direction the platform is going in and consistency > between applications on Maemo should be pretty high up everyone's > priority lists IMNSHO. You are completely wrong. In fact the correct solution is to have all platform developers to design their platforms to be consistent with the needs of osm2go. That's the direction osm2go is going and consistency between the different platforms it runs on should be pretty high up on everyones priority list. Honestly: Your reply doesn't make any sense to me. Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Reduce fremantle button spacing
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 20:36, Till Harbaum / Lists wrote: > > fremantle increases button sizes significantly to make them more > finger friendly. However, some applications like osm2go are imho > not suited for finger usage and those big buttons thus waste > screen space. I don't know the answer to your question, but the "right" answer would be to redesign the application such that it /was/ suited for finger usage. That's the direction the platform is going in and consistency between applications on Maemo should be pretty high up everyone's priority lists IMNSHO. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Reduce fremantle button spacing
Hi, fremantle increases button sizes significantly to make them more finger friendly. However, some applications like osm2go are imho not suited for finger usage and those big buttons thus waste screen space. In diablo a button was barely bigger than e.g. the icon inside. How do i get this behaviour in fremantle back? When i just force the button size to be smaller, then the icon is shifted to the right half way out of the button. There seems to be some fixed border involved. I tried to force the "inner-border" of the button to 0,0,0,0 but that also doesn't change anything. How do i draw a button with an icon inside that isn't significantly bigger than the icon itself in fremantle? Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
