Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Friday 26 September 2008 00:01:00 Mark wrote: > Wonderful... yet another "wontfix" response to usability issues... > > One problem is that putting the device in offline mode disables > bluetooth, but taking it out of offline mode usually doesn't re-enable > bluetooth (at least 75% of the time on my N800). Another is that any > situation where the other device is the main physical interaction > (headset, keyboard, etc.), it has no ability to turn on the bluetooth. > Sure, if some app on the tablet itself asks for bluetooth it can get > it, but not external devices. There *does* need to be a quick way to > access the bluetooth settings. > i cant say i have seen that bluetooth and offline mode issue happen here with my N800... > The only workable mode right now if one uses any bluetooth devices at > all is to always leave bluetooth turned on. It's much too big a PITA > to go through the many levels of the Control Panel to turn on > bluetooth every time you need it, even if it's infrequently. > there is a reason why i have "switch on bt" in "personal menu" ;) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Log-in to scratch-box without using password.
Hi all, How to login to Scrach-box without password is there any way ? br atul -- "You Never Get a Second Chance to Make First Good Impression" Atul Raut Hyderabad - 500 033 Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Log-in to scratch-box without using password.
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 03:23:18PM +0530, atul raut wrote: > How to login to Scrach-box without > password is there any way ? When I run sb-login, I'm never asked for a password. Marius Gedminas -- Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
Hi, ext Mark wrote: > Wonderful... yet another "wontfix" response to usability issues... If I understood this correctly, the enhancement requested that for a set of users who use separate bluetooth keyboard, the pre-installed device software usability would be improved by changing the UI as proposed in the bug. This was replied with: --- However, we have a strong requirement to reduce the amount of permanent Status bar indicators. Status bar is crowded already and we should prefer temporary Status indicators (like alarm and usb indicators). The primary function of Status bar indicators is to indicate status - controlling something from there is secondary. Of course you may disagree and can continue that discussion in some other forum ;) We are going to change this design in future releases. Maybe not as a permanent indicator, but let's see. --- I think better time to do UI enhancement requests is when Nokia does software alpha / beta releases for the forthcoming product / release, not when it's already released and in bugfix phase. Especially if you want it for the same HW. However, I don't understand what's the problem with this functionality being offered by a 3rd party component if the component is easily available from the extras repository? > One problem is that putting the device in offline mode disables > bluetooth, but taking it out of offline mode usually doesn't re-enable > bluetooth (at least 75% of the time on my N800). Another is that any > situation where the other device is the main physical interaction > (headset, keyboard, etc.), it has no ability to turn on the bluetooth. > Sure, if some app on the tablet itself asks for bluetooth it can get > it, but not external devices. There *does* need to be a quick way to > access the bluetooth settings. > > The only workable mode right now if one uses any bluetooth devices at > all is to always leave bluetooth turned on. It's much too big a PITA > to go through the many levels of the Control Panel to turn on > bluetooth every time you need it, even if it's infrequently. > > Mark > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Andre Klapper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Am Donnerstag, den 25.09.2008, 14:48 -0300 schrieb Fernando Cassia: >>> What is the reason for the Bluetooth icon to disappear when bluetooth >>> is disabled? >> Basically a design decision, see the discussion in >> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=971 - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N800 RIP?
Fernando Cassia wrote: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Denis Dimick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I do wish I had the second card slot, however, I don't need the FM radio. >> I never use the GPS, did use it once when lost, so it's nice to have. >> >> Denis > > The extra $100 in the price is NOT nice to have and just kills the > ability of the device to be used in home automation scenarios, where > the N800 would have made a great fixed device. > > FC Too bad the Archos is not open. The 605 is going for $199.99 now. Now that Nokia has abandoned this market, there is an opportunity for a more perceptive company. Besides Archos, I have discovered similar platforms: Porient H12, Viliv S5 Mid, Lenovo IdeaPad U8, BenQ S6, and Peartree Z5xx. Anyone know of any that I missed? None of these are shipping in the US yet, and the Peartree is actually a development platform. The N800 was manufactured in Korea. Anyone know by what company? -- Jeffrey Barish ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N800 RIP?
Fernando, I too have considered the N800 to have excellent potential as a wireless/mobile component in a home automation/home control environment. Regarding price levels, I did a quick google product search on the N810 whose results are available at the www page whose url is: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=n810&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en&cid=10657832716709053816#ps-sellers The low price in $US from that search is $339.99 At that price level the N810 should be viable as a component in a home automation/home control system at least in the U.S. market. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC Fernando Cassia wrote: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Denis Dimick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I do wish I had the second card slot, however, I don't need the FM radio. I >> never use the GPS, did use it once when lost, so it's nice to have. >> >> Denis >> > > The extra $100 in the price is NOT nice to have and just kills the > ability of the device to be used in home automation scenarios, where > the N800 would have made a great fixed device. > > FC > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users > > > ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Sep 26, 2008, at 9:01 AM, Eero Tamminen wrote: > However, I don't understand what's the problem with this functionality > being offered by a 3rd party component if the component is easily > available from the extras repository? There is a project to combine the Bluetooth and WiFi applets into a single applet (an "Advanced Connectivity" of sorts), but it hasn't really gotten off the ground lacking anybody with real knowledge of libconic and the connectivity interfaces, and, unfortunately, because both applets are closed there are no examples to work from. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Ryan Abel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There is a project to combine the Bluetooth and WiFi applets into a > single applet (an "Advanced Connectivity" of sorts), but it hasn't > really gotten off the ground lacking anybody with real knowledge of > libconic and the connectivity interfaces, and, unfortunately, because > both applets are closed there are no examples to work from. Don't you see, this is Nokia's "differentiation" at work. By having a UI which doesn't meet the user's requirements, they can ensure that competitors can't take their code and produce something just as limited! (*cough* #303 *cough* ;-)) In all seriousness, I just leave Bluetooth on all the time now, and allow paired devices to initiate connections that way. I would imagine that Bluetooth hasn't had quite the power usage focus as WLAN, but it should have had *some*. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ maemo.org Community Council member ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
Hi, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Ryan Abel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> There is a project to combine the Bluetooth and WiFi applets into a >> single applet (an "Advanced Connectivity" of sorts), but it hasn't >> really gotten off the ground lacking anybody with real knowledge of >> libconic and the connectivity interfaces, and, unfortunately, because >> both applets are closed there are no examples to work from. I think this is then the real issue here. Is there a bug about both of these issue (the interfaces lacking documentation and applet sources) which people could vote on? > Don't you see, this is Nokia's "differentiation" at work. By having a > UI which doesn't meet the user's requirements, they can ensure that > competitors can't take their code and produce something just as > limited! (*cough* #303 *cough* ;-)) > > In all seriousness, I just leave Bluetooth on all the time now, and > allow paired devices to initiate connections that way. I would imagine > that Bluetooth hasn't had quite the power usage focus as WLAN but it > should have had *some*. Correct. I use the control panel myself, but I don't need Bluetooth that often. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 7:01 AM, Eero Tamminen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > ext Mark wrote: >> >> Wonderful... yet another "wontfix" response to usability issues... > > If I understood this correctly, the enhancement requested that > for a set of users who use separate bluetooth keyboard, the > pre-installed device software usability would be improved by > changing the UI as proposed in the bug. > > This was replied with: > --- > However, we have a strong requirement to reduce the amount of permanent > Status bar indicators. "We" who? Obviously not users Besides, one can choose to hide any of the status bar icons if it's too cluttered, and even pick the order. The problem is that certain ones can't be pinned there. > Status bar is crowded already and we should > prefer temporary Status indicators (like alarm and usb indicators). > The primary function of Status bar indicators is to indicate status - > controlling something from there is secondary. Oh, yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense... NOT! Eating up valuable screen real estate with what amounts to "idiot lights" rather than allowing the user to quickly access settings and/or detailed information through tapping on those icons is poor design. > Of course you may > disagree and can continue that discussion in some other forum ;) > > We are going to change this design in future releases. Maybe not as > a permanent indicator, but let's see. > --- > > I think better time to do UI enhancement requests is when Nokia does > software alpha / beta releases for the forthcoming product / release, > not when it's already released and in bugfix phase. Especially if you > want it for the same HW. > > However, I don't understand what's the problem with this functionality > being offered by a 3rd party component if the component is easily > available from the extras repository? > > There are several problems with your reasoning. 1) It's extremely poor design. It would have been trivial to add a single checkbox to the settings that makes the icon stay on the status bar, but the attitude is that "we don't want you to have that functionality at all because we think there are too many status bar icons." What's wrong with letting the user decide whether the status bar is too cluttered or not? 2) The attitude that "your concerns and use cases are irrelevant". This attitude is pervasive in open source. 3) If it's that easy for a 3rd party to add the functionality, then it would be trivial for Nokia, at any time whatsoever. 3rd party solutions for such basic functionality are never as accessible or integrated as OEM. 4) The issue is NOT just for bluetooth keyboard users. It also applies to bluetooth headsets, bluetooth GPSs, and every other bluetooth peripheral device. In no case can the external device turn on the tablet's bluetooth radio. It can "wake up" the radio if it is turned on and "sleeping", but it cannot turn the radio on if it is completely off. The radio can only be turned on and off from the tablet itself, and can only be turned on by going through much more than a trivial number of menu levels. Therefore, most people who use a bluetooth connection are going to leave the bluetooth radio turned on all the time, thereby reducing battery life, even if only by a little. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 09:53:07AM -0600, Mark wrote: > Besides, one can choose to hide any of the status bar icons if it's > too cluttered, and even pick the order. The problem is that certain > ones can't be pinned there. And certain ones (e.g. presence) can't be hidden at all, which irritates me. > There are several problems with your reasoning. > 1) It's extremely poor design. It would have been trivial to add a > single checkbox to the settings that makes the icon stay on the status > bar, but the attitude is that "we don't want you to have that > functionality at all because we think there are too many status bar > icons." What's wrong with letting the user decide whether the status > bar is too cluttered or not? Simplicity is good. Too many choices are overwhelming. What's wrong with letting the user decide whether he wants so read my MAKE MONEY FAST email or not? Marius Gedminas -- And yes, you'd be insane to consider C++ for a new project in 2007. -- Thomas Ptacek signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Marius Gedminas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 09:53:07AM -0600, Mark wrote: >> Besides, one can choose to hide any of the status bar icons if it's >> too cluttered, and even pick the order. The problem is that certain >> ones can't be pinned there. > > And certain ones (e.g. presence) can't be hidden at all, which irritates > me. Now *there's* a bug I could get behind. I'd love to see the UI Bibl^WSpecification which justifies *some* being user choosable but, oh no, not *that* one. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ maemo.org Community Council member ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Marius Gedminas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> What's wrong with letting the user decide whether the status >> bar is too cluttered or not? > > Simplicity is good. Too many choices are overwhelming. What's wrong > with letting the user decide whether he wants so read my MAKE MONEY FAST > email or not? > > Marius Gedminas That's called a "straw man analogy", so I'm not going to dignify it with a response... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
It can be done by editing the desktop file and removing the mandatory line or by using my quick deb to do it: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=153051 I won't deny though that it isn't really an end-user "solution". Regards, Faheem On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Marius Gedminas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 09:53:07AM -0600, Mark wrote: > > Besides, one can choose to hide any of the status bar icons if it's > > too cluttered, and even pick the order. The problem is that certain > > ones can't be pinned there. > > And certain ones (e.g. presence) can't be hidden at all, which irritates > me. > > Marius Gedminas > -- > And yes, you'd be insane to consider C++ for a new project in 2007. >-- Thomas Ptacek > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFI3Q5/kVdEXeem148RAqxcAJ9559QQLAhQqH62IiZRtRgO9siufACfeU5r > 2BgOrFm7EPC3srYwKNDt+xA= > =IAj3 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users > > ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:55:38AM -0600, Mark wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Marius Gedminas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> What's wrong with letting the user decide whether the status > >> bar is too cluttered or not? > > > > Simplicity is good. Too many choices are overwhelming. What's wrong > > with letting the user decide whether he wants so read my MAKE MONEY FAST > > email or not? > > > > Marius Gedminas > > That's called a "straw man analogy", so I'm not going to dignify it > with a response... You just did. :-) I'm not saying that I agree with Nokia's designers about this particular issue; I'm saying that I can understand their reasoning. Marius Gedminas -- 31337 is a prime number, go figure... signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Sep 26, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Eero Tamminen wrote: > ext Andrew Flegg wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Ryan Abel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> There is a project to combine the Bluetooth and WiFi applets into a >>> single applet (an "Advanced Connectivity" of sorts), but it hasn't >>> really gotten off the ground lacking anybody with real knowledge of >>> libconic and the connectivity interfaces, and, unfortunately, >>> because >>> both applets are closed there are no examples to work from. > > I think this is then the real issue here. Is there a bug about > both of these issue (the interfaces lacking documentation and > applet sources) which people could vote on? Well, there's this, but I don't know of a bug on the documentation. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3195 -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Marius Gedminas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:55:38AM -0600, Mark wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Marius Gedminas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> What's wrong with letting the user decide whether the status >> >> bar is too cluttered or not? >> > >> > Simplicity is good. Too many choices are overwhelming. What's wrong >> > with letting the user decide whether he wants so read my MAKE MONEY FAST >> > email or not? >> > >> > Marius Gedminas >> >> That's called a "straw man analogy", so I'm not going to dignify it >> with a response... > > You just did. :-) > No, I didn't. I responded to you, not the remark. > I'm not saying that I agree with Nokia's designers about this particular > issue; I'm saying that I can understand their reasoning. > > Marius Gedminas > -- > 31337 is a prime number, go figure... > I'm glad someone can. I for one can't understand why they consistently make decisions that undermine the usefulness and usability of their products. It certainly isn't good business practice. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
To add to the debate, the Palm OS in the latest Palm Centro smarphones show a Bluetooth icon all the time, greyed when not active and Blue when active. You can click on it and easily turn bluetooth on/off. So simple! isn't it?. Apparently not for the Nokia mindset... FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
UI Questions
Evening/Morning/G'day all I have been following the thread on the bluetooth icon with some interest and would like to get some clarification on some matters. As i understood it the UI in Maemo is closed so to speak ie Nokia are not giving out the spcs or did i misunderstand it? Also if that is the case why not use some other UI like the QT (Opie i think its called)? Is it possible to change the UI to something else ie not KDE or Gnome like something that has a small footprint ? //Chris ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Another annoyance: bluetooth icon disappears
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 02:54:43PM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: > To add to the debate, the Palm OS in the latest Palm Centro smarphones > show a Bluetooth icon all the time, greyed when not active and Blue > when active. You can click on it and easily turn bluetooth on/off. > > So simple! isn't it?. PalmOS had great usability for the tasks you could do with it. Features won out over usability and I left my Palm for a 770. Marius Gedminas -- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right! signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
