Re: Fennec vs MicroB
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gary a écrit : Has anyone installed Fennec yet? 8 days later ... i test it in many cases and globally performance are very poor: - - load too long at launch - - too many memory with only 1 tab - - no information about work in progress : no progress bar or hourglass (after url entry, between scroll on touch screen and menu visibility, etc.) I thinks they are very good ideas : - - no vertical scroll bar - - menus on right and left with horizontal scroll - - automatic zoom fit on page load - - zoom in with double click - -- Thomas Clavierhttp://www.tcweb.org +33 (0)6 20 81 81 30 JabberID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkHLIsACgkQStsfiGuIVEOy3gCfY6IcMn7/hxogSubG8z0iexwY o8AAoJJDcuxAGL2RuDT1dIxFJ9Soq1Sh =do4k -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
Ryan Abel a écrit : On Oct 27, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Urivan Saaib wrote: I've been playing with Diablo on my n770 for several months. It has been fairly stable. No, you've been playing with Chinook. Diablo is not available for the 770. Well, this is a question I've meant to ask Quim for a while now, so here is my opportunity. I've asked it here before without an answer, but some threads on ITT have brought it back to light recently. Despite the disparaging remarks by the Maemo team when OS2008HE came out (end-of-the-line, too much for the poor beast etc.), quite a few people (including me) are satisfied with it breathing a new life into their old 770. Maemo Mapper in particular, a rare example of commitment to maintaining a native maemo app on all NIT platforms, works just fine on it. The problem we are having now is that some recent apps, or their Diablo upgrades, fail to install or run, although they could be really useful on a home-bound 770 : to name a few, Canola, Maemo remote (which also uses EFL), or liqbase... So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and maybe the N8x0 too), it would be really good to see a final update bringing the main Diablo improvements to OS2008HE, so that it can still run the latest relevant apps. Is there any chance this will happen ? TIA, fp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
Fred, From my perspective I'm not sure what would be blocking liqbase from running on the 770. I believe the only none standard things it uses are the XV library and the XSP raw mouse information. If you would like to run liqbase from the console and send me the output I will be happy to give it a run through and see whats going on. I will be happy to attempt to get it running on all Nokia maemo devices, and hopefully it would be a minor tweak :) Gary On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Fred Pacquier [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Ryan Abel a écrit : On Oct 27, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Urivan Saaib wrote: I've been playing with Diablo on my n770 for several months. It has been fairly stable. No, you've been playing with Chinook. Diablo is not available for the 770. Well, this is a question I've meant to ask Quim for a while now, so here is my opportunity. I've asked it here before without an answer, but some threads on ITT have brought it back to light recently. Despite the disparaging remarks by the Maemo team when OS2008HE came out (end-of-the-line, too much for the poor beast etc.), quite a few people (including me) are satisfied with it breathing a new life into their old 770. Maemo Mapper in particular, a rare example of commitment to maintaining a native maemo app on all NIT platforms, works just fine on it. The problem we are having now is that some recent apps, or their Diablo upgrades, fail to install or run, although they could be really useful on a home-bound 770 : to name a few, Canola, Maemo remote (which also uses EFL), or liqbase... So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and maybe the N8x0 too), it would be really good to see a final update bringing the main Diablo improvements to OS2008HE, so that it can still run the latest relevant apps. Is there any chance this will happen ? TIA, fp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
While I don't own a 700 or an 800, I have an n810, I'm watching what Nokia does with these older models, are they going to require users upgrade the hardware to get new apps, or are they going to support the older hardware? If Nokia does not continue to support older hardware, I'm not sure Nokia going to get any more of my money. $400 for a n810 is a lot to shell out when you can buy a small laptop, Acer, Asus, etc. and have a system with just a tad larger footprint. Just my .02, Denis On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:58 PM, gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, From my perspective I'm not sure what would be blocking liqbase from running on the 770. I believe the only none standard things it uses are the XV library and the XSP raw mouse information. If you would like to run liqbase from the console and send me the output I will be happy to give it a run through and see whats going on. I will be happy to attempt to get it running on all Nokia maemo devices, and hopefully it would be a minor tweak :) Gary On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Fred Pacquier [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Ryan Abel a écrit : On Oct 27, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Urivan Saaib wrote: I've been playing with Diablo on my n770 for several months. It has been fairly stable. No, you've been playing with Chinook. Diablo is not available for the 770. Well, this is a question I've meant to ask Quim for a while now, so here is my opportunity. I've asked it here before without an answer, but some threads on ITT have brought it back to light recently. Despite the disparaging remarks by the Maemo team when OS2008HE came out (end-of-the-line, too much for the poor beast etc.), quite a few people (including me) are satisfied with it breathing a new life into their old 770. Maemo Mapper in particular, a rare example of commitment to maintaining a native maemo app on all NIT platforms, works just fine on it. The problem we are having now is that some recent apps, or their Diablo upgrades, fail to install or run, although they could be really useful on a home-bound 770 : to name a few, Canola, Maemo remote (which also uses EFL), or liqbase... So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and maybe the N8x0 too), it would be really good to see a final update bringing the main Diablo improvements to OS2008HE, so that it can still run the latest relevant apps. Is there any chance this will happen ? TIA, fp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- -- sik vis paw kem, para bellum -- oderint dum metuant -- Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race! -LT. GEN. LEWIS CHESTY PULLER, USMC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
I am agree with you. + 1 David While I don't own a 700 or an 800, I have an n810, I'm watching what Nokia does with these older models, are they going to require users upgrade the hardware to get new apps, or are they going to support the older hardware? If Nokia does not continue to support older hardware, I'm not sure Nokia going to get any more of my money. $400 for a n810 is a lot to shell out when you can buy a small laptop, Acer, Asus, etc. and have a system with just a tad larger footprint. Just my .02, Denis On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:58 PM, gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, From my perspective I'm not sure what would be blocking liqbase from running on the 770. I believe the only none standard things it uses are the XV library and the XSP raw mouse information. If you would like to run liqbase from the console and send me the output I will be happy to give it a run through and see whats going on. I will be happy to attempt to get it running on all Nokia maemo devices, and hopefully it would be a minor tweak :) Gary On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Fred Pacquier [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ryan Abel a écrit : On Oct 27, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Urivan Saaib wrote: I've been playing with Diablo on my n770 for several months. It has been fairly stable. No, you've been playing with Chinook. Diablo is not available for the 770. Well, this is a question I've meant to ask Quim for a while now, so here is my opportunity. I've asked it here before without an answer, but some threads on ITT have brought it back to light recently. Despite the disparaging remarks by the Maemo team when OS2008HE came out (end-of-the-line, too much for the poor beast etc.), quite a few people (including me) are satisfied with it breathing a new life into their old 770. Maemo Mapper in particular, a rare example of commitment to maintaining a native maemo app on all NIT platforms, works just fine on it. The problem we are having now is that some recent apps, or their Diablo upgrades, fail to install or run, although they could be really useful on a home-bound 770 : to name a few, Canola, Maemo remote (which also uses EFL), or liqbase... So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and maybe the N8x0 too), it would be really good to see a final update bringing the main Diablo improvements to OS2008HE, so that it can still run the latest relevant apps. Is there any chance this will happen ? TIA, fp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- -- sik vis paw kem, para bellum -- oderint dum metuant -- Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race! -LT. GEN. LEWIS CHESTY PULLER, USMC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
Denis, From the very first day I bought my tablet I knew I was on borrowed time. Just the same as when I purchase a new desktop or laptop or car or phone. Evolutions occur and hardware becomes old. I have had my tablet now for 10 months, it remains valid and up to date and I can do more with it now than the day I bought it. People who purchased n800s have had a much longer lifespan, Nokia maintained compatibility with the hardware when the n810 was released and even gave a clockspeed boost to the 800. In the same way that 770 owners still exist, the n8x0 series will continue and people will still run applications on it, but I and most people queried on this would not expect it to run every single brand new piece of code out there at the same performance level as currently (if at all for some things). If you go and have a look at the difference with the omap2 and the omap3, you will understand there is a lot more that can be done with the new chips and this opens up new avenues for development in all aspects. Those new areas however do not mean what we have now simply ceases to exist, and if done carefully even some new software can expand into the newer hardware and simply perform better there whilst still maintaining compatibility with the previous generation. Shall we expect Nokia to simply cease development work and stop everything because they have users of a current generation who can't use the newer faster better way of doing something? Should Sony have remained at the playstation1 level because they had a lot of owners? I personally can't wait for the upgrades, I think the omap3 and everything that enables will make for a terrific experience and for me it cannot be released soon enough. Gary On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Denis Dimick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I don't own a 700 or an 800, I have an n810, I'm watching what Nokia does with these older models, are they going to require users upgrade the hardware to get new apps, or are they going to support the older hardware? If Nokia does not continue to support older hardware, I'm not sure Nokia going to get any more of my money. $400 for a n810 is a lot to shell out when you can buy a small laptop, Acer, Asus, etc. and have a system with just a tad larger footprint. Just my .02, Denis On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:58 PM, gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, From my perspective I'm not sure what would be blocking liqbase from running on the 770. I believe the only none standard things it uses are the XV library and the XSP raw mouse information. If you would like to run liqbase from the console and send me the output I will be happy to give it a run through and see whats going on. I will be happy to attempt to get it running on all Nokia maemo devices, and hopefully it would be a minor tweak :) Gary On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Fred Pacquier [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Ryan Abel a écrit : On Oct 27, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Urivan Saaib wrote: I've been playing with Diablo on my n770 for several months. It has been fairly stable. No, you've been playing with Chinook. Diablo is not available for the 770. Well, this is a question I've meant to ask Quim for a while now, so here is my opportunity. I've asked it here before without an answer, but some threads on ITT have brought it back to light recently. Despite the disparaging remarks by the Maemo team when OS2008HE came out (end-of-the-line, too much for the poor beast etc.), quite a few people (including me) are satisfied with it breathing a new life into their old 770. Maemo Mapper in particular, a rare example of commitment to maintaining a native maemo app on all NIT platforms, works just fine on it. The problem we are having now is that some recent apps, or their Diablo upgrades, fail to install or run, although they could be really useful on a home-bound 770 : to name a few, Canola, Maemo remote (which also uses EFL), or liqbase... So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and maybe the N8x0 too), it would be really good to see a final update bringing the main Diablo improvements to OS2008HE, so that it can still run the latest relevant apps. Is there any chance this will happen ? TIA, fp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- -- sik vis paw kem, para bellum -- oderint dum metuant -- Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race! -LT. GEN. LEWIS CHESTY PULLER,
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
El Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:35:17 + gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Shall we expect Nokia to simply cease development work and stop everything because they have users of a current generation who can't use the newer faster better way of doing something? Should Sony have remained at the playstation1 level because they had a lot of owners? I can run the latest linux distribution on an almost 10 years old computer, and I assure you that the distro maker didn't stand still to cater for me. It's obviously slower than a new computer but it's quite useable, I just turn off the most demanding desktop effects and don't use it for 3d animation. Heck, I could even use lxde instead of kde4 if I really cared about its slowness. If I buy, say, a netbook, I'll lose the pocketability of the tablet (and that's quite an important factor), but I know that 10 years from now I'll probably be able to use it (if it lasts, which I doubt, since most electronics nowadays are made to use and throw away in a matter of months, yes, including the tablets) with the latest and greatest. Bye -- Luca ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 07:52:09PM +0100, Fred Pacquier wrote: So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and This sounds like something I should know about. Googling Fremantle tells me it's a city in Australia, which seems not relevant. -- hendrik ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
Gary, Luca's reply is more in line with my thinking. I do think one thing that Nokia needs to understand is when it's time to purchase a new device user irritation with a vendor plays a part in the decision. Will I climb further into bed with Nokia, buying a phone also, or look somewhere else for love? I do like my n810, it's replaced my iPhone, but when it dies I may not look at Nokia to replace it; maybe this is the old Linux way of thinking, run it until it dies. I will admit that I know very little of the advantages of upgrading currently, however, I'm not looking to upgrade. I sure hope this is not one of the subjects that spins of into one that's only worthy of /dev/null Denis On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:35 PM, gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Denis, From the very first day I bought my tablet I knew I was on borrowed time. Just the same as when I purchase a new desktop or laptop or car or phone. Evolutions occur and hardware becomes old. I have had my tablet now for 10 months, it remains valid and up to date and I can do more with it now than the day I bought it. People who purchased n800s have had a much longer lifespan, Nokia maintained compatibility with the hardware when the n810 was released and even gave a clockspeed boost to the 800. In the same way that 770 owners still exist, the n8x0 series will continue and people will still run applications on it, but I and most people queried on this would not expect it to run every single brand new piece of code out there at the same performance level as currently (if at all for some things). If you go and have a look at the difference with the omap2 and the omap3, you will understand there is a lot more that can be done with the new chips and this opens up new avenues for development in all aspects. Those new areas however do not mean what we have now simply ceases to exist, and if done carefully even some new software can expand into the newer hardware and simply perform better there whilst still maintaining compatibility with the previous generation. Shall we expect Nokia to simply cease development work and stop everything because they have users of a current generation who can't use the newer faster better way of doing something? Should Sony have remained at the playstation1 level because they had a lot of owners? I personally can't wait for the upgrades, I think the omap3 and everything that enables will make for a terrific experience and for me it cannot be released soon enough. Gary On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Denis Dimick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I don't own a 700 or an 800, I have an n810, I'm watching what Nokia does with these older models, are they going to require users upgrade the hardware to get new apps, or are they going to support the older hardware? If Nokia does not continue to support older hardware, I'm not sure Nokia going to get any more of my money. $400 for a n810 is a lot to shell out when you can buy a small laptop, Acer, Asus, etc. and have a system with just a tad larger footprint. Just my .02, Denis On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:58 PM, gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, From my perspective I'm not sure what would be blocking liqbase from running on the 770. I believe the only none standard things it uses are the XV library and the XSP raw mouse information. If you would like to run liqbase from the console and send me the output I will be happy to give it a run through and see whats going on. I will be happy to attempt to get it running on all Nokia maemo devices, and hopefully it would be a minor tweak :) Gary On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Fred Pacquier [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Ryan Abel a écrit : On Oct 27, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Urivan Saaib wrote: I've been playing with Diablo on my n770 for several months. It has been fairly stable. No, you've been playing with Chinook. Diablo is not available for the 770. Well, this is a question I've meant to ask Quim for a while now, so here is my opportunity. I've asked it here before without an answer, but some threads on ITT have brought it back to light recently. Despite the disparaging remarks by the Maemo team when OS2008HE came out (end-of-the-line, too much for the poor beast etc.), quite a few people (including me) are satisfied with it breathing a new life into their old 770. Maemo Mapper in particular, a rare example of commitment to maintaining a native maemo app on all NIT platforms, works just fine on it. The problem we are having now is that some recent apps, or their Diablo upgrades, fail to install or run, although they could be really useful on a home-bound 770 : to name a few, Canola, Maemo remote (which also uses EFL), or liqbase... So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and maybe the N8x0 too), it would be really good to see a final update bringing the main Diablo improvements to OS2008HE, so
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
Luca wrote: Shall we expect Nokia to simply cease development work and stop everything because they have users of a current generation who can't use the newer faster better way of doing something? I can run the latest linux distribution on an almost 10 years old computer, and I assure you that the distro maker didn't stand still to cater for me. I've heard this argujment before and *can* relate to it. However: * The difference between a PIII and a modern processor is, in many ways, smaller than the difference between OMAP2420 (and the surrounding architecture) and the OMAP3430. * Having a good usable UI on a Maemo 5 device /and/ a decent user experience on an N810 will cost more to develop. Nokia *can't* ship a sub- standard UI (if Maemo 5'll be as good as planned) and officially support it. Heck, I could even use lxde instead of kde4 if I really cared about its slowness. And things like Debian will allow you to replace Maemo with something else; or keep Maemo 4. Nokia's plans to differentiate at the UI layer, and open the lower layers will help with other replacements at the higher levels - just as you describe. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ maemo.org Community Council member ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:35 PM, gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Denis, From the very first day I bought my tablet I knew I was on borrowed time. Just the same as when I purchase a new desktop or laptop or car or phone. Evolutions occur and hardware becomes old. Talk about disposable society... Have you no shame? Hardware only becomes obsolete if you are a slave to fashion or are a compulsive gamer. My laptop is over 8 years old, and I'd still be happy and using it if the backlight hadn't gone out last fall. My car is a 2000 model with 100,000 miles, and I maintain it very well and wouldn't trade it for a new one if you paid me. My phone doesn't even have a camera, and I'll probably never get another one unless it dies or I change providers to a different network type. My desktop PC is a Via Epia M1, and if it weren't for the electronics manufacturers' lobby successfully pressuring the legislation that forced HDTV (planned/forced obsolescence on the grandest scale!!! :o ) I wouldn't be looking to upgrade that, either. I wouldn't have tried to set aside my Handspring Visor if it weren't for my N800, although it turns out I _can't_ set it aside because the ITs don't have a PIM that plays nicely with my data Newer and faster is all too often NOT better!!! I have had my tablet now for 10 months, it remains valid and up to date and I can do more with it now than the day I bought it. People who purchased n800s have had a much longer lifespan, Nokia maintained compatibility with the hardware when the n810 was released and even gave a clockspeed boost to the 800. The N810 is *not* a replacement for the N800. I don't like the N810, and it's extremely doubtful that I will ever get one. They have different features, and for me the N800 not only has a lot more bang for the buck, it has more bang period. In the same way that 770 owners still exist, the n8x0 series will continue and people will still run applications on it, but I and most people queried on this would not expect it to run every single brand new piece of code out there at the same performance level as currently (if at all for some things). Well, my 8-year-old laptop runs every new WinXP application that I need, and ditto for my basically equivalent-horsepower desktop running Kubuntu. Sure, apps may load a little slower, but once they're loaded there's no reason at all for me to want anything newer or faster. If you go and have a look at the difference with the omap2 and the omap3, you will understand there is a lot more that can be done with the new chips and this opens up new avenues for development in all aspects. Those new areas however do not mean what we have now simply ceases to exist, and if done carefully even some new software can expand into the newer hardware and simply perform better there whilst still maintaining compatibility with the previous generation. Shall we expect Nokia to simply cease development work and stop everything because they have users of a current generation who can't use the newer faster better way of doing something? I repeat: newer faster maybe, better definitely not! Even Diablo is several steps back with all the problems it's got. I won't be upgrading from Chinook to Diablo until I know for certain that the troubles that everyone else has been having with the apps that I use have been ironed out. Should Sony have remained at the playstation1 level because they had a lot of owners? On the other hand, you can still get peripherals and software for the Playstation 1... I personally can't wait for the upgrades, I think the omap3 and everything that enables will make for a terrific experience and for me it cannot be released soon enough. Gary I can and will wait for the alleged upgrades. For the most part, the upgrades are solely for the purpose of creating flashy, showing fluff and don't actually speed anything up, they just allow you to get the same amount of work done at the same speed (and sometimes a lot _slower_) with lots of bells and whistles and flashing lights. If you can't get something as basic and important as a built-in workable PIM out of the box, who cares if you've got a 3D, inertial-scrolling, multitouch interface? I certainly don't. You can try to keep up with the Joneses if you want, but personally I'm only going to pay for what I really need and want, not what somebody else tells me I need and want. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 9:50 PM, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:35 PM, gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Denis, From the very first day I bought my tablet I knew I was on borrowed time. Just the same as when I purchase a new desktop or laptop or car or phone. Evolutions occur and hardware becomes old. Talk about disposable society... Have you no shame? Hardware only becomes obsolete if you are a slave to fashion or are a compulsive gamer. My laptop is over 8 years old, and I'd still be happy and using it if the backlight hadn't gone out last fall. My car is a 2000 model with 100,000 miles, and I maintain it very well and wouldn't trade it for a new one if you paid me. My phone doesn't even have a camera, and I'll probably never get another one unless it dies or I change providers to a different network type. My desktop PC is a Via Epia M1, and if it weren't for the electronics manufacturers' lobby successfully pressuring the legislation that forced HDTV (planned/forced obsolescence on the grandest scale!!! :o ) I wouldn't be looking to upgrade that, either. I wouldn't have tried to set aside my Handspring Visor if it weren't for my N800, although it turns out I _can't_ set it aside because the ITs don't have a PIM that plays nicely with my data Newer and faster is all too often NOT better!!! Mark, you are 100% right of course and the current generation devices will continue to work till the end of days. A lot of people buy devices as tools and they will work as expected, but a great number of people buy things because they appeal, and will upgrade at some arbitary point in the future when the next thing appeals to them. I spent a lot of money on my device and had very high expectations of it - when I bought it I found I could not scroll text like I used to on my old pda book reader, and other things jumped at me - like in your case. I have had ideas in my head and in code for the last few years about how I want to interact with a touch device. I am getting close to my goal and the n8x0 has shown me its possible, but you would not believe just how much hacking and sidestepping and pieces of lateral thinking I have had to go through to get it running as *I* want. Please go and see what I have achieved (the first video will show you what I do on my current n810 machine): http://liqbase.net/ This is a piece of custom crafted extremely optimized software which is simply not possible using the current standard tools on these devices. The next generation *should* enable decent UI features which most normal users appreciate without making the developers tear their hair out to give them. Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Andrew Flegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luca wrote: Shall we expect Nokia to simply cease development work and stop everything because they have users of a current generation who can't use the newer faster better way of doing something? I can run the latest linux distribution on an almost 10 years old computer, and I assure you that the distro maker didn't stand still to cater for me. I've heard this argujment before and *can* relate to it. However: * The difference between a PIII and a modern processor is, in many ways, smaller than the difference between OMAP2420 (and the surrounding architecture) and the OMAP3430. * Having a good usable UI on a Maemo 5 device /and/ a decent user experience on an N810 will cost more to develop. Only if Nokia *deliberately* tries to make the current tablets obsolete. Actually, it will cost more for Nokia to develop a new OS from the ground-up in order to support completely different hardware than it would for them to evolve the current OS and hardware. Nokia *can't* ship a sub- standard UI (if Maemo 5'll be as good as planned) and officially support it. Heck, I could even use lxde instead of kde4 if I really cared about its slowness. And things like Debian will allow you to replace Maemo with something else; or keep Maemo 4. Nokia's plans to differentiate at the UI layer, and open the lower layers will help with other replacements at the higher levels - just as you describe. Yeah, they instigated the maemo community in order to have an excuse to abandon support for hardware that is actually quite new. The N810 hasn't even been out a year yet, and everybody's talking like it's a dinosaur. They had lots of choices for hardware at every stage of the tablet game, and if they didn't start out with something more cutting edge, that's their problem, and shouldn't be ours. Cheers, Andrew You're trying to tell us that we *want* newer, different hardware. I'm telling you that no, the N800 is *exactly* what I want in form factor and every other hardware feature. The only thing that is lacking is some fundamental software - that does *not* require any more horsepower. The way they're headed, Nokia is ensuring that this is the one and only Nokia product I will ever buy. They are also killing any chance they would have had to make an impact with other consumers. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
USB based video adapters
Has anyone tried something like this: http://www.startech.com/item/USB2VGA-USB-20-to-VGA-Dual-Display-Adapter.aspx Drivers for it are in the kernel. And then use a wireless keyboard. It would be cool if airline seats had USB displays in them and you could plug your cell phone into them. http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB122477763884262815-lMyQjAxMDI4MjI0NjcyNzY3Wj.html -- Jon Smirl [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
Denis Dimick wrote: . $400 for a n810 is a lot to shell out when you can buy a small laptop, Acer, Asus, etc. and have a system with just a tad larger footprint. Just my .02, My two cents -- I've got both an EEE pc AND n800. They fill different niches. I find the n800 great for RSS, email (Claws), simple web surfing, and poking around a couple simple games in bed. Stuff a touch screen does well. Who wants to sit up and beat on a keyboard when one is snuggling under the warm blankets...? When I do feel inspired enough to sit up and keyboard, I use the eee for YouTubing and other video oriented surfing plus minor editing for email and blog reply's. I've just installed Ubuntu eee on the eee's external card, which makes it so you can boot into ubuntu or xandros, which is nice. Getting XP installed is next. Of the two, the n800 sees a lot more use. I could probably do without the eee, you'll have a battle to take away my n800. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:06 PM, Mark wrote: Yeah, they instigated the maemo community in order to have an excuse to abandon support for hardware that is actually quite new. The N810 hasn't even been out a year yet, and everybody's talking like it's a dinosaur. They had lots of choices for hardware at every stage of the tablet game, and if they didn't start out with something more cutting edge, that's their problem, and shouldn't be ours. So, using one of the fastest ARM SoCs at the time of release doesn't count as using cutting edge hardware? Bogus. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 07:52:09PM +0100, Fred Pacquier wrote: So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and This sounds like something I should know about. Googling Fremantle tells me it's a city in Australia, which seems not relevant. Your google-fu is very weak. The first four results are all relevant: http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8oe=utf8q=fremantle+maemo -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
On Oct 28, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Luca Olivetti wrote: El Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:35:17 + gary liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Shall we expect Nokia to simply cease development work and stop everything because they have users of a current generation who can't use the newer faster better way of doing something? Should Sony have remained at the playstation1 level because they had a lot of owners? I can run the latest linux distribution on an almost 10 years old computer, and I assure you that the distro maker didn't stand still to cater for me. It's obviously slower than a new computer but it's quite useable, I just turn off the most demanding desktop effects and don't use it for 3d animation. Heck, I could even use lxde instead of kde4 if I really cared about its slowness. If I buy, say, a netbook, I'll lose the pocketability of the tablet (and that's quite an important factor), but I know that 10 years from now I'll probably be able to use it (if it lasts, which I doubt, since most electronics nowadays are made to use and throw away in a matter of months, yes, including the tablets) with the latest and greatest. This is a totally bogus analogy. No matter what you think, the mobile ARM hardware just cannot be equated to off-the-shelf x86 hardware, it's a whole different beast, for which you have to understand the issues involved. The embedded market simply moves too quickly, with each generation existing at the barely enough performance end of the spectrum. The performance margins are simply too thin and the hardware capabilities too modest. That said, I'm fairly certain Nokia doesn't even know for certain whether Fremantle will be supported on the OMAP2 generation yet. Let's wait until it's decided one way or the other before we start throwing stones. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repeat quetion : Diablo update to OS2008HE ? (Was: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?)
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 08:01:54PM -0400, Ryan Abel wrote: On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 07:52:09PM +0100, Fred Pacquier wrote: So, before the Fremantle wave definitely buries the 770 platform (and This sounds like something I should know about. Googling Fremantle tells me it's a city in Australia, which seems not relevant. Your google-fu is very weak. Admittedly. The first four results are all relevant: http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8oe=utf8q=fremantle+maemo Ah! If I had known fremantle had something to do with maemo ... -- hendrik ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: USB based video adapters
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 07:32:16PM -0400, Jon Smirl wrote: Has anyone tried something like this: http://www.startech.com/item/USB2VGA-USB-20-to-VGA-Dual-Display-Adapter.aspx Drivers for it are in the kernel. Two people were doing presentations with some kind of USB2VGA dongles at the Maemo Summit. Marius Gedminas -- Life was simple before World War II. After that, we had systems. -- Grace Murray Hopper, 1987 signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Software Choices for New Nokia 770?
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 05:06:53PM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote: I am the happy new owner of an older Nokia 770 with a 1G flash MMC card. I am an experienced Debian user. 'apt-get update' fails. It appears that depots listed in the sources.list file are no longer available. Is there an updated sources.list for updates? I would like to install security updates as I am sure there are some in the last couple of years. Nope. OS2006 never had apt-gettable updates. All you could do was reflash a newer OS image (AFAIK the latest one for OS2006 was version 3.2006.49-2). The main problem that I am having are system crashes when trying to download from the web browser onto the add-on MMC flash card. It starts to transfer and a partial file results but inevitably crashes the system during the download requiring a reboot. I would like to hope that if I could update that the updated image would resolve this so that I could put files on the added 1G flash card. I seem to remember a bug in the wifi driver that randomly corrupts memory. I don't think it was ever fixed, at least in the official supported OS image. You might have better luck with the semi-official OS2007 or OS2008 ports (know as Hacker's Edition, no support, no guarantees, apps may or may not work, your own risk etc.). What is the wisdom of the 'net for what an experienced Debian user should install? OpenSSH. Should I install the OS2007 hacker edition? Or is there a better best-known version now? I've no experience with the hacker editions. I bought a N800 (and later a N810) the CPU and RAM upgrade was worth it. Marius Gedminas -- System going down at 5 this afternoon to install scheduler bug. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
