Re: Nokia device usage

[Jean-Christian de Rivaz]

John Holmblad a écrit :
> Jean-Christian,
> 
> the term "3g radio" is a fairly broad term. The key is what software is 
> going to be in the new G4 IT above the radio/physical layer.  It would 
> make sense, especially if Nokia decides that the G4 IT is going to go 
> after the market served by the iphone, to  give the G4 IT, full 2G/3G 
> voice functionality in addition to  HSDPA. The rub here with such a 
> decision may be the impact on the product cost of having to use a 
> presumably more expensive radio of the kind that are contained in 2G/3G 
> dual mode handsets. I would think that for a product released in 2009 2G 
> support would still be essential.
[...]

John,

It seem that you think that there exists 3G chip that make only HSPA, 
without voice, and/or without 2G compatibility. You can be right, but I 
have a big doubt on that.

Best Regards,
-- 
Jean-Christian de Rivaz
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About updates of GPodder (solved!)

[Francisco Javier Teruelo de Luis]

NOT TO UPDATE. First, uninstall; and then reinstall 0.15.0-3 version 
-the episodes downloaded last on the device, no problem-.

Thanks.
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About updates of Gpodder

[Francisco Javier Teruelo de Luis]

Anyone has any problem with the updates 0.15.0-1, -2 and -3 of gpodder? 
It doesn't works. (no start)
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Re: Nokia device usage

[John Holmblad]

Jean-Christian,

the term "3g radio" is a fairly broad term. The key is what software is 
going to be in the new G4 IT above the radio/physical layer.  It would 
make sense, especially if Nokia decides that the G4 IT is going to go 
after the market served by the iphone, to  give the G4 IT, full 2G/3G 
voice functionality in addition to  HSDPA. The rub here with such a 
decision may be the impact on the product cost of having to use a 
presumably more expensive radio of the kind that are contained in 2G/3G 
dual mode handsets. I would think that for a product released in 2009 2G 
support would still be essential.

On the other hand, if Nokia is not planning to make the G4 IT into a 
full mobile smartphone (as we know such devices today) then my surmise 
that, in the case of the G4 IT, there will NOT be a 2G/3G radio nor will 
there be the software to support  all the voice call handoff/roaming 
that is contained in a regular 2g/3g mobile phone. Rather the software 
will rely on SIP endpoint services such as are contained in the current 
G3 IT and will utilize the underlying (unreliable best effort) IP 
service capability layered on a HSUPA radio layer to agnostically 
(voice, data,who cares as long as it is in a packet)  move the voice UDP 
packets end to end over the mobile service provider's network. One 
consequence of this approach, is that, for such voice traffic 
originating/terminating on a G4 IT, the 3G radio base stations inside of 
the mobile service provider's network would NOT have to be concerned 
about voice call handoff from base station to base station in the case 
of a user that is in motion. The base stations would only need to 
concern themselves with handing off an (unreliable by definition) IP 
interface from one BS to the next. Only the SIP endpoints would be aware 
of the voice connection.


Related to this, today I learned that a consortium of mobile industry 
participants (mostly infrastructure equipment providers) just today 
announced yet another "forum" called the  VOLGA forum (no relation to 
the Volga River) to

".enable mobile operators to deliver mobile voice and messaging 
services over LTE access networks based on the existing 3GPP Generic 
Access Network (GAN) standard."

VOLGA in this case stands for "Voice Over Lte via Generic Access" and a  
"Generic Access Network"^1 is a network that uses IP at its core (e.g. 
one based on IEEE 802.11 a/b/g wireless)for transport).

Here is the url to the www page for the VOLGA www site:

http://www.volga-forum.com/index.php
 

Now I thought that the LTE standards framework as defined by the 3GPP 
had already solved the very basic question of how to convey mobile voice 
and messaging over LTE but clearly I was wrong.

Obviously  this VOLGA group has some new and/or different ideas of how 
to utilize LTE infrastructure using GAN principles to convey voice and 
SMS over a 4g network. different, that is,  from  the method that is 
already contained in the 3GPP LTE standards framework.

Since there are no spec's yet published on this www site from this forum 
it is impossible to say for sure but, based on my reading of what GAN is 
all about,  my gut tells me that VOLGA is a "voice over packet" solution 
similar to what I surmised above and that this solution  is somehow 
different from whatever "voice over packet" solution is already 
contained in the 3gpp standards.

I suspect that what is going on here is that,  as the commercial reality 
and success of VOIP and SIP trunking service providers (aided and 
abetted by the fantastic success of the proprietary protocol based SKYPE 
service) seeps in to the minds of the world's mobile network planners, 
these planners from within the mobile service providers, handset 
providers, and infrastructure providers are all rethinking how to most 
cost effectively evolve the world's mobile networks to 4g.

I do find it interesting that, with respect to the VOLGA forum, although 
the infrastructure providers Alcatel-Lucent, Nortel, Ericsson and ZTE 
are involved, there is no mention of Nokia-Siemens Networks as a member.



1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network


Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Acadia Secure Networks, LLC

* *



Jean-Christian de Rivaz wrote:
> Andrew Flegg a écrit :
>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Jean-Christian de Rivaz  
>> wrote:
>>> I don't understand why the next tablet will not be able to make regular
>>> phone call, since it will have 3G link. It's a non sense.
>>
>> You seem awfully sure about the features of a device which has yet to
>> be announced, let alone released.
>>
>> Perhaps such certainty should be held in check until an announcement
>> is actually made about what the RX-51 and RX-71 *are*?
>
> Of course I can be wrong. I just read news from Maemo site:
>
> http://maemo.org/news/internet_tablet_talk/dr-ari_jaaksi_on_maemo_5/
>
> 
> Dr. Ari Jaaksi has just finished his keynote speech over at OSiM, 
> revealin

Re: Nokia device usage

[James Knott]

Mark wrote:
> And the only reason that Linux and Macs are so relatively safe from
> viruses and worms is because they aren't targeted, not because they
> are fundamentally more secure.
>
>   
Well, considering that most web sites run Apache on Linux or Unix, I'm
not so sure about that.  And if you investigate the way Windows and
Linux/Unix are designed, I'm certain you're wrong.  You might want to
read up on how IE became so tightly coupled with the OS.  You can start
with the Netscape vs Microsoft trial, where MS claimed IE could not be
removed, because it was part of the OS.  At that time it wasn't, but
next version of Windows (W98 IIRC) it was and as a result, Windows has
been wide open to attack via IE.  Then you can look at how difficult it
is for a virus to propagate in Linux/Unix because a user cannot write to
files outside his authorized areas etc.  And, of course, Unix was
designed from the ground up to be multiuser and had appropriate
protection mechansims built in.  Windows was built on top of single user
DOS and then tried to have all the holes fixed.

Bottom line, there are a lot of technical and usage reasons that make it
much harder for malware to attack Linux/Unix.


-- 
Use OpenOffice.org 
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Re: Nokia device usage

[John Holmblad]

Mark,

re your comment

> Managing repositories is far beyond the
> understanding of the average consumer. Installing apps from source
> code is even less user-friendly. Far too many important apps must be
> installed with apt-get from the command line and don't show up at all
> in Adept. That's barely scratching the surface.

this repository management problem will eventually be resolved as 
services such as  the Novell sponsored OpenSuse Build Service  
eventually make it possible for end users  to customize their own OS + 
related software installs without concern for the packaging details.  
This kind of  service will eventually make mass customization of LInux 
environments possible.  With services like this it will be possible to 
have builds that are unique to each user or community of users.

You may already be aware of this service since it has been around for 
awhile now. Here is the url to a www page with some commentary on this 
service:


http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3655986/Novell-Auto-Builds-Linux-For-All.htm

Here is the url to the www page for the Opensuse build service portal:
   
http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service#Build_Service_Source_Code

Although I learned about the RPath service a few years ago I did not pay 
much attention to the problem of Linux OS+App build since I have not 
been involved in that kind of activity except as an end user using 
either Redhat's or Novells install tools.  However, recently the 
Opensuse build service showed up as a discussion to topic on the 
maemo-developers list which led me to take a closer look at it.


Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Acadia Secure Networks, LLC

* *





Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:43 PM, lakestevensdental
>  wrote:
>   
>> Mark wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, lakestevensdental
>>>  wrote:
>>> \> Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck...  It's
>>>
>>>   
 not like there's nothing to learn from the successful.

 Always, Fred C

 
>>> ...or non-Micro$oft, or non-Linux, or...  it all depends on whose
>>> fan-boy you're talking to. The sad fact is that they're *all*
>>> albatrosses in one way or another.
>>>
>>>   
>> M$ is no albatross.  It's the world's largest computer virus.
>>
>> 
>
> and Apple isn't? You're being very hypocritical.
>
>   
>> Apple, hmmm  IMHO, they've found a growing niche for folks who want
>> to get over the M$ virus, who feel the need to buy something that works.
>> 
>
> Give me a break. Whether you want to admit it or not, Windows *does*
> work well enough for it to be overwhelmingly dominant, and the only
> reason it breaks so often is because it's so much more open than MacOS
> or OS X - which is nothing but a crippled rip-off of Linux...
>
> For everything you can do on an Apple, you can do fifty things on a
> Windows box, and you have a multitude of choices of software to do
> each thing, most of which are far cheaper, just as stable and more
> featureful than the Apple alternative.
>
> Having used many flavors of DOS, all versions of Windows since 3.11,
> many Macs, and many different distros of Linux (not to mention UNIX
> and other mainframe OSes from the '70s and '80s) over the years, I can
> tell you that they're *all* full of crap. Linux crashes, Macs crash,
> and Windows doesn't crash as much as the Mac and Linux fanboys want to
> believe.
>
> And the only reason that Linux and Macs are so relatively safe from
> viruses and worms is because they aren't targeted, not because they
> are fundamentally more secure.
>
> (Don't get me wrong, I'm in the last stages of escaping the "Micro$oft
> virus" myself - my daily use is with kubuntu and my N800. However, I'm
> still forced to boot into WinXP occasionally to do things that just
> aren't yet possible in Linux.)
>
>   
>>>  If it weren't for the iPod, Apple would have died an ugly
>>> death a long time ago. They were in a very serious crisis when the
>>> iPod came out. They're still far from dominant in the computer market,
>>> and probably never will be.
>>>   
>>  The Ipod phenon has been an interesting ride to watch.  Say what you
>> want about Apple's marketing style -- it's worked to dominate a rapidly
>> growing market niche and will likely continue that way into the near
>> future because of sheer marketing momentum of it and it's vertical
>> markets.
>> 
>
> That momentum can't last forever. Sooner or later, Apple is going to
> be right back where they were just before the iPod came out. Maybe
> they'll come out with another "Hail Mary" device then, maybe they
> won't...
>
> Actually, what seems to be coming out of the Apple camp these days is
> the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" philosophy. Hence the Intel
> Macs, giving up on DRM, etc. That's pretty smart, because in the long
> run they won't be able to survive with the same tactics they've been
> u

Re: N8xx ponderings

[Mark]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>
> i wish i could point you to the law text, but sadly its only in norwegian...
>

To quote Dickens, "the law is an ass". I consider ethics to be
stronger than law. In other words, there are plenty of things that are
legal but morally reprehensible, as well as many things that are
illegal for no defensible reason.

Also, law is not static. Frequently laws change one way or the other
once the pressure reaches critical mass. When too many people take
unreasonable advantage of a situation, the situation changes.

Mark
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 3:04 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>> Mark wrote:
>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM, kenneth marken 
>>> wrote:
 more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is,
 if it was not bought with XP in the first place...
>>> Yeah, good luck with that. None of the stores I know would take back
>>> that kind of a product for such a lame excuse. You might be able to
>>> exchange for the same thing if there's a real defect, but getting a
>>> refund on a computer because you don't like like the OS - about which
>>> you knew *before* you bought it - is not going to fly. These days they
>>> have a tendency to check returned products to verify their condition,
>>> so I wouldn't advise anyone to try this.
>>>
>>> Frankly, a person would have to be a real jerk to try it.
>>>
>> or maybe depend on where in the world one lives...
>>
> 
> No, if you try to return a product because you're an idiot, you're a
> jerk regardless of where you live. It's losers like that that ruin
> things for the rest of us who only return things for solid reasons and
> often can't because the generous stores get tired of being ripped off
> and end up making their policies too strict.
> 
> If there's nothing wrong with a product but it has been opened/used,
> the store can't (and shouldn't be allowed to) sell it as new. That
> means that if they take it back they *will* lose money on it. Only if
> it's actually defective (and not deliberately vandalized by a
> shortsighted arrogant jerk) can they get full credit from the
> supplier/manufacturer. Sooner or later, the retailers who take back
> merchandise no questions asked either change their policies or go out
> of business because they can't make a profit.
> 
i wish i could point you to the law text, but sadly its only in norwegian...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Mark]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 3:04 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM, kenneth marken 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is,
>>> if it was not bought with XP in the first place...
>>
>> Yeah, good luck with that. None of the stores I know would take back
>> that kind of a product for such a lame excuse. You might be able to
>> exchange for the same thing if there's a real defect, but getting a
>> refund on a computer because you don't like like the OS - about which
>> you knew *before* you bought it - is not going to fly. These days they
>> have a tendency to check returned products to verify their condition,
>> so I wouldn't advise anyone to try this.
>>
>> Frankly, a person would have to be a real jerk to try it.
>>
> or maybe depend on where in the world one lives...
>

No, if you try to return a product because you're an idiot, you're a
jerk regardless of where you live. It's losers like that that ruin
things for the rest of us who only return things for solid reasons and
often can't because the generous stores get tired of being ripped off
and end up making their policies too strict.

If there's nothing wrong with a product but it has been opened/used,
the store can't (and shouldn't be allowed to) sell it as new. That
means that if they take it back they *will* lose money on it. Only if
it's actually defective (and not deliberately vandalized by a
shortsighted arrogant jerk) can they get full credit from the
supplier/manufacturer. Sooner or later, the retailers who take back
merchandise no questions asked either change their policies or go out
of business because they can't make a profit.

Mark
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Re: Nokia device usage

[Mark]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:43 PM, lakestevensdental
 wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, lakestevensdental
>>  wrote:
>> \> Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck...  It's
>>
>>> not like there's nothing to learn from the successful.
>>>
>>> Always, Fred C
>>>
>>
>> ...or non-Micro$oft, or non-Linux, or...  it all depends on whose
>> fan-boy you're talking to. The sad fact is that they're *all*
>> albatrosses in one way or another.
>>
> M$ is no albatross.  It's the world's largest computer virus.
>

...and Apple isn't? You're being very hypocritical.

> Apple, hmmm  IMHO, they've found a growing niche for folks who want
> to get over the M$ virus, who feel the need to buy something that works.

Give me a break. Whether you want to admit it or not, Windows *does*
work well enough for it to be overwhelmingly dominant, and the only
reason it breaks so often is because it's so much more open than MacOS
or OS X - which is nothing but a crippled rip-off of Linux...

For everything you can do on an Apple, you can do fifty things on a
Windows box, and you have a multitude of choices of software to do
each thing, most of which are far cheaper, just as stable and more
featureful than the Apple alternative.

Having used many flavors of DOS, all versions of Windows since 3.11,
many Macs, and many different distros of Linux (not to mention UNIX
and other mainframe OSes from the '70s and '80s) over the years, I can
tell you that they're *all* full of crap. Linux crashes, Macs crash,
and Windows doesn't crash as much as the Mac and Linux fanboys want to
believe.

And the only reason that Linux and Macs are so relatively safe from
viruses and worms is because they aren't targeted, not because they
are fundamentally more secure.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm in the last stages of escaping the "Micro$oft
virus" myself - my daily use is with kubuntu and my N800. However, I'm
still forced to boot into WinXP occasionally to do things that just
aren't yet possible in Linux.)

>>  If it weren't for the iPod, Apple would have died an ugly
>> death a long time ago. They were in a very serious crisis when the
>> iPod came out. They're still far from dominant in the computer market,
>> and probably never will be.
>  The Ipod phenon has been an interesting ride to watch.  Say what you
> want about Apple's marketing style -- it's worked to dominate a rapidly
> growing market niche and will likely continue that way into the near
> future because of sheer marketing momentum of it and it's vertical
> markets.

That momentum can't last forever. Sooner or later, Apple is going to
be right back where they were just before the iPod came out. Maybe
they'll come out with another "Hail Mary" device then, maybe they
won't...

Actually, what seems to be coming out of the Apple camp these days is
the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" philosophy. Hence the Intel
Macs, giving up on DRM, etc. That's pretty smart, because in the long
run they won't be able to survive with the same tactics they've been
using for the last 20 years. The world has changed.

>
>  As for the PC world, Apple could probably dominate, or at least
> quickly become very big player, in the PC market if they decided to make
> and sell their OS for installation in Intel boxes for a modest price.
>

Not likely. They would still need to be able to support the sheer
numbers and variety of apps and hardware that Windows does. In other
words, they would have to join 'em rather than beat 'em...

>  Linux could probably make everyone pay serious attention if a common
> Direct X like app were available to grab the gamers out of the PC (and
> Game box) world.  Without gamers, there's little need for all the
> additional speed and power in the PC market.  Who knows, Linux may pick
> up a lot of attention if more governments would adopt the policy of open
> source OS and software were possible as someone has talked about in
> Europe recently (make Great Britian?).
>

No, the one thing that keeps Linux from dominating is the
mind-boggling fragmentation of effort. If Linux developers would work
together instead of splintering off and starting a new app or distro
every time they have the most miniscule difference of opinion, Linux
would have take over the world long ago. As it is, new distros crop up
every day, along with competing and equally unfinished apps. That
isn't "competition", it's stupidity.

Ubuntu is by far the biggest threat to Apple and Microsoft, but even
Canonical is making some mistakes. They've come light-years in even
the last five years with making Linux installable and usable by the
average consumer, but a set of updates a couple of weeks ago broke my
box to the point where the average consumer would have thought it was
completely dead and given up on it. (Fortunately I was able to
resuscitate it, but some plasmoids still aren't working.) I can't get
Wine to do anything but crash the whole system. (And no,
virtualization is not and n

Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>> more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is,
>> if it was not bought with XP in the first place...
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that. None of the stores I know would take back
> that kind of a product for such a lame excuse. You might be able to
> exchange for the same thing if there's a real defect, but getting a
> refund on a computer because you don't like like the OS - about which
> you knew *before* you bought it - is not going to fly. These days they
> have a tendency to check returned products to verify their condition,
> so I wouldn't advise anyone to try this.
> 
> Frankly, a person would have to be a real jerk to try it.
> 
or maybe depend on where in the world one lives...
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Re: Nokia device usage

[lakestevensdental]

Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, lakestevensdental
>  wrote:
> \> Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck...  It's
>   
>> not like there's nothing to learn from the successful.
>>
>> Always, Fred C
>> 
>
> ...or non-Micro$oft, or non-Linux, or...  it all depends on whose
> fan-boy you're talking to. The sad fact is that they're *all*
> albatrosses in one way or another.
>   
M$ is no albatross.  It's the world's largest computer virus.

Apple, hmmm  IMHO, they've found a growing niche for folks who want 
to get over the M$ virus, who feel the need to buy something that works.  
>  If it weren't for the iPod, Apple would have died an ugly
> death a long time ago. They were in a very serious crisis when the
> iPod came out. They're still far from dominant in the computer market,
> and probably never will be. 
  The Ipod phenon has been an interesting ride to watch.  Say what you 
want about Apple's marketing style -- it's worked to dominate a rapidly 
growing market niche and will likely continue that way into the near 
future because of sheer marketing momentum of it and it's vertical 
markets.  

  As for the PC world, Apple could probably dominate, or at least 
quickly become very big player, in the PC market if they decided to make 
and sell their OS for installation in Intel boxes for a modest price. 

  Linux could probably make everyone pay serious attention if a common 
Direct X like app were available to grab the gamers out of the PC (and 
Game box) world.  Without gamers, there's little need for all the 
additional speed and power in the PC market.  Who knows, Linux may pick 
up a lot of attention if more governments would adopt the policy of open 
source OS and software were possible as someone has talked about in 
Europe recently (make Great Britian?).  

I suppose if someone could get Intuit to provide a Linux Quickbooks and 
TurboTax, movement to Linux could be a done deal for a fair number of 
small businesses that just need some accounting, inventory and Open 
Office Suite to do most of their business computing needs.  Who needs to 
spend $150 on a bloated M$ O$, plus new devices and install hassles.  
Intuit could offer QB, TT, OO, and Ubuntu or PCBSD on a disk for the 
same price as M$ W7 alone, plus it would install and run. 
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[lakestevensdental]

John Holmblad wrote:
> Fred C,
>
> re your comment
>
>"...with more core memory."
>
> Where can I get some of that?
>
> The long boot time of windows XP, and, for that matter Vista, explains 
> why Microsoft is racing to get Windows 7 out the door to "fix" that 
> Achilles heel vs Linux. Microsoft are only too aware that today's 
> 10-18 year olds (the next generation, if you will, of corporate users) 
> will prefer what works first/fastest to reconnect them to their 
> connected world vs whose name is on the OS.
FYI, I've recently loaded W7 onto a couple new boxes to see how it would 
work.  After about a month, I'm not so sure W7 isn't going to be another 
Vista disaster. 

* Pro -- the boot time has been reduced.  This seems to be
  accomplished to a great extent by limiting the task bar to 3 MS
  chosen items.  There's all sorts of freeware out that that will
  let XP users cut out most of the startup junk that bogs down XP
  boot up. 
* Con -- Driver verification.  After installing W7 from a new
  blue-ray DVD, W7 discovered the BR-DVD isn't on it's current pay
  thru to nose to MS list of approved drivers -- so it doesn't
  recognize it when you boot up, unless you go thru the hassle of
  F8, and selecting ignore driver verification at W7 boot time.
  Ditto for various USB devices, motherboard drivers and the like.
* W7 wouldn't let me install my Shuttle Vista drivers, hence it
  wouldn't recognize the LAN, hence you can't get any direct
  support.  W7 is likely to be the same driver mess for endusers
  attempting to migrate from XP AND Vista to W7. 
* Caveat -- it's possible with a beta release that some of these
  driver restrictions are to limit hassles of managing all the
  devices that folks might want to connect to their computers before
  W7 is ready. If true, then MS is living in DaNile -- when W7 is
  released, it's going to be dumped on for being very unprepared to
  handle all the devices folks expect to work with W7.
* W7 requires 4 partitions, leaving only 1 partition for a dual boot
  to Ubuntu or other OS.  Ubuntu currently recommends an separate
  partition for swap memory, but W7 isn't going to allow it.
* W7 has all sorts of nice OS bloatware that I'm sure is intended to
  make things easy for novices. Stuff like self-testing your systems
  performance (mem, CPU, Disk access, graphics, etc) up to a scale
  of 8.  I suppose it's nice to see where your system performance is
  weak, but in the OS?  You can move the cursor over your task bar
  apps and it shows a small window of what that process is doing. 
  Cute -- but essential?  This sort of junk is probably enough to
  fill up 4Gs of extra memory...  Meanwhile, it won't recognize my
  blue-ray DVD... 

IMHO, W7 is not a slimmed down beefed up Vista, it's Vista in a girdle. 

IMHO, if I were in charge of W7 design, somewhere along the development 
process, I'd have put in some self monitoring system that would self 
delete from the core processes and apps that people don't use or need 
much, leaving this sort of bloatware something to be accessed from an 
online repository on final release.  I suspect that nLiting MS OS to 
eliminate MS bloatware is going to become an increasingly popular trend. 

Of the things the various Linux things have done right, including the 
tablet's 2008 OS,  is they generally have a decently tight core OS that 
users can build upon from online repos to fill their need. The problem 
is not all of the repo apps are made to the same reliability or 
usability standards as one might wish.  As anyone who uses MS junk might 
say -- "So what else is new"?

Always, Fred C

>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> John Holmblad
>
> **
>
>
> lakestevensdental wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
> one, and
> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as 
> cheap or
> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
> 
>> FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a 
>> couple easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible.
>> Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's 
>> relatively simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
>> ,
>>  
>> nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 
>> 600M speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a 
>> minute faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly 
>> impressive how well XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk 
>> you never use or need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G 
>> internal memory card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck 
>> with a whopping 128M...
>> FYI, I spend mor

Re: Nokia device usage

[Mark]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, lakestevensdental
 wrote:
\> Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck...  It's
> not like there's nothing to learn from the successful.
>
> Always, Fred C

...or non-Micro$oft, or non-Linux, or...  it all depends on whose
fan-boy you're talking to. The sad fact is that they're *all*
albatrosses in one way or another.

And it all depends on how you measure success as to how you view Apple
in general. If it weren't for the iPod, Apple would have died an ugly
death a long time ago. They were in a very serious crisis when the
iPod came out. They're still far from dominant in the computer market,
and probably never will be. They don't even dominate the PC
graphics/video  editing market any more.

I for one will never buy an Apple product. Where do you think
Micro$oft learned their worst business tactics and product strategies?
The Apple IIe was the last Apple product worth buying - it's been
downhill ever since. Once they killed the Franklin Ace, there's been
no looking back. At least PC architecture has always been and still is
freely interchangeable and modifiable and open enough to allow
competition. And I will never understand those who insist that Apple
products are so easy to use. They aren't. They're counter-intuitive
and illogical, and rely much more on style than on substance. I guess
they make sense to people who don't...

Mark
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Mark]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
> more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is,
> if it was not bought with XP in the first place...

Yeah, good luck with that. None of the stores I know would take back
that kind of a product for such a lame excuse. You might be able to
exchange for the same thing if there's a real defect, but getting a
refund on a computer because you don't like like the OS - about which
you knew *before* you bought it - is not going to fly. These days they
have a tendency to check returned products to verify their condition,
so I wouldn't advise anyone to try this.

Frankly, a person would have to be a real jerk to try it.

Mark
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Re: Nokia device usage

[kenneth marken]

lakestevensdental wrote:
> Fernando Cassia wrote:
>> A couple points:
>>
>> 1. Apple makes proprietary, closed solutions. Try to reverse engineer
>> Apple´s firmware for compatibility reasons and you´ll see Apple
>> lawyers coming to get you.
>>   
> They've found there's a broad end-user market for stuff that meets a 
> certain ease of use and reliability standards.  Go figure. 
>> 2. Apple makes expensive, not cheap, hardware.
>>   
> See above.
>> 3. Apple does not support Free Software in general
>> (if you know any Apple software released under the GNU GPL Free
>> Software license, let me know)
>> that puts it at odds with the N8xx tablets Linux OS foundation.
>>   
> See above.  Also, at least for the Ipod and Iphones, lots of 
> applications are inexpensive, many less than $10 -- a couple Starbucks.  
> The market appears to find low cost functional software beneficial.  
> Lots of folks are willing to pay a little for software developers to 
> fill their market with a wide variety of software.  Go figure.
>> 4. Apple continues pretending Linux doesn´t exist (Quicktime for Linux, 
>> anyone).
>>   
> And MS doesn't provide DirectX 10 for Linux either so more games and 
> graphics apps would be Linux compatible.  Big surprise there.  It's as 
> if the proprietary world has figured out the Linux world isn't organized 
> enough to cooperate together to develop an open source version for these 
> important niches. 
>> 5. Apple charges an arm and a leg for software upgrades
>>   
> See above.
>> 6. Apple doesn´t like people tinkering with its OS.
>>   
> See above
>> 7. Apple is just a Microsoft with a sense of style.
>> There´s plenty of "not invented here syndrome", like Microsoft does
>> with WMV, Apple does with Quicktime. Why not embrace OpenOffice.org?
>> Not invented at Apple, so it must suck, right?.
>>   
> See above.
>> I wouldn´t buy any device from Apple corp. FC
>>   
> 
> Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck...  It's 
> not like there's nothing to learn from the successful.
> 
heh, one thing one can learn for sure, is that playing on peoples vanity 
provides a whole lot of free publicity...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

lakestevensdental wrote:
> kenneth marken wrote:
>> lakestevensdental wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken 
  wrote:
>> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
>> one, and
>> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as 
>> cheap or
>> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
>>> FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a 
>>> couple easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible.
>>> Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's 
>>> relatively simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
>>> ,
>>>  
>>> nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 
>>> 600M speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a 
>>> minute faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly 
>>> impressive how well XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk 
>>> you never use or need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G 
>>> internal memory card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck 
>>> with a whopping 128M...
>> fully aware of it, but does that info help a customer that may not 
>> even have restored the os of any previous computer without grabbing a 
>> nearby geek?
> 
> Easy Peasy really is easy to install.  No wizardry at all.
> 
> An XP netbook install isn't quite as simple, but the link above gets the 
> job done with only a few more clicks that Easy Peasy, especially if you 
> torrent an nLited XP for your install instead of nLiting yourself. 
> 
> Or buy a six pack of beer, bag of chips and salsa dip, locate some beer 
> guzzling geek to do the work for you over chips and beer while you watch 
> March Madness.  This stuff ain't rocket science. 
> 
more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is, 
if it was not bought with XP in the first place...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[lakestevensdental]

kenneth marken wrote:
> lakestevensdental wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken 
>>>  wrote:
> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
> one, and
> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as 
> cheap or
> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
>> FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a 
>> couple easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible.
>> Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's 
>> relatively simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
>> ,
>>  
>> nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 
>> 600M speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a 
>> minute faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly 
>> impressive how well XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk 
>> you never use or need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G 
>> internal memory card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck 
>> with a whopping 128M...
> fully aware of it, but does that info help a customer that may not 
> even have restored the os of any previous computer without grabbing a 
> nearby geek?

Easy Peasy really is easy to install.  No wizardry at all.

An XP netbook install isn't quite as simple, but the link above gets the 
job done with only a few more clicks that Easy Peasy, especially if you 
torrent an nLited XP for your install instead of nLiting yourself. 

Or buy a six pack of beer, bag of chips and salsa dip, locate some beer 
guzzling geek to do the work for you over chips and beer while you watch 
March Madness.  This stuff ain't rocket science. 

Always, Fred C
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Re: Nokia device usage

[lakestevensdental]

Fernando Cassia wrote:
> A couple points:
>
> 1. Apple makes proprietary, closed solutions. Try to reverse engineer
> Apple´s firmware for compatibility reasons and you´ll see Apple
> lawyers coming to get you.
>   
They've found there's a broad end-user market for stuff that meets a 
certain ease of use and reliability standards.  Go figure. 
> 2. Apple makes expensive, not cheap, hardware.
>   
See above.
> 3. Apple does not support Free Software in general
> (if you know any Apple software released under the GNU GPL Free
> Software license, let me know)
> that puts it at odds with the N8xx tablets Linux OS foundation.
>   
See above.  Also, at least for the Ipod and Iphones, lots of 
applications are inexpensive, many less than $10 -- a couple Starbucks.  
The market appears to find low cost functional software beneficial.  
Lots of folks are willing to pay a little for software developers to 
fill their market with a wide variety of software.  Go figure.
> 4. Apple continues pretending Linux doesn´t exist (Quicktime for Linux, 
> anyone).
>   
And MS doesn't provide DirectX 10 for Linux either so more games and 
graphics apps would be Linux compatible.  Big surprise there.  It's as 
if the proprietary world has figured out the Linux world isn't organized 
enough to cooperate together to develop an open source version for these 
important niches. 
> 5. Apple charges an arm and a leg for software upgrades
>   
See above.
> 6. Apple doesn´t like people tinkering with its OS.
>   
See above
> 7. Apple is just a Microsoft with a sense of style.
> There´s plenty of "not invented here syndrome", like Microsoft does
> with WMV, Apple does with Quicktime. Why not embrace OpenOffice.org?
> Not invented at Apple, so it must suck, right?.
>   
See above.
> I wouldn´t buy any device from Apple corp. FC
>   

Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck...  It's 
not like there's nothing to learn from the successful.

Always, Fred C
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Re: Nokia device usage

[Alejandro López]

kenneth marken wrote:
> Alejandro López wrote:
>>
>> Eero Tamminen wrote:
>>> As this thread is "Nokia device usage", what you would use
>>> the Skype video for? :-)
>>
>> Mainly to communicate with my family when on business travel, but also 
>> to put in touch my kids (2 and 4 year old) and their grand mother 
>> (11000 km away) without requiring them to stay in front of a desktop 
>> computer (which is quite difficult). I once tried with the laptop 
>> computer but you can imaging that moving around the house carrying a 
>> laptop is not the same as carrying the N810... :)
>>
> i guess there is allways the option of skype-out, turning the call into 
> some kind of local call to wireless or mobile phone...

I think in that case you don't get video, do you?

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Re: Nokia device usage

[kenneth marken]

Alejandro López wrote:
> 
> Eero Tamminen wrote:
>> As this thread is "Nokia device usage", what you would use
>> the Skype video for? :-)
> 
> Mainly to communicate with my family when on business travel, but also to put 
> in touch my kids (2 and 4 year old) and their grand mother (11000 km away) 
> without requiring them to stay in front of a desktop computer (which is quite 
> difficult). I once tried with the laptop computer but you can imaging that 
> moving around the house carrying a laptop is not the same as carrying the 
> N810... :)
> 
i guess there is allways the option of skype-out, turning the call into 
some kind of local call to wireless or mobile phone...
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Re: Nokia device usage

[Alejandro López]

Eero Tamminen wrote:
> As this thread is "Nokia device usage", what you would use
> the Skype video for? :-)

Mainly to communicate with my family when on business travel, but also to put 
in touch my kids (2 and 4 year old) and their grand mother (11000 km away) 
without requiring them to stay in front of a desktop computer (which is quite 
difficult). I once tried with the laptop computer but you can imaging that 
moving around the house carrying a laptop is not the same as carrying the 
N810... :)



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Re: Nokia device usage

[Eero Tamminen]

Hi,

ext Alejandro López wrote:
> Eero Tamminen escribió:
>> Skype video requires significantly more power than for example Gtalk
>> video (which the device supports) and has quite strict latency
>> requirements (the call drops if Skype doesn't get enough CPU).
> 
> Great! Now I know the technical reasons, but I still don't know
> why this is not mentioned when it is said that Skype runs on
> the tablet.

I don't know about the others (or the device marketing), but
at least to me the Skype video use is very marginal even on Desktop
at home.  In the beginning the video call was a nice novelty, but
nowadays we enable it only sometimes when discussing with our young
nieces, for 99%[1] of the calls voice is enough.

As this thread is "Nokia device usage", what you would use
the Skype video for? :-)


- Eero

[1] of the _time_ used for all the calls video part might be more,
 the calls with our nieces are usually quite long as they show
 what they've done in pre-school etc...
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Re: Browser Reload Tabs app?

[Eero Tamminen]

Hi,

ext Randall wrote:
> As my N800 locks up sometimes, 2-3 times a day (I've got nothing running 
> on it but the latest OS) is there a proggy that will re-open all my open 
> Browser windows when I reboot the browser - ala Firefox?

If you press the power button, do you get the power menu?

(I.e. is something just grabbing the input instead the device freezing.)


Do you have swap enabled?  If yes, have you checked that the memory
card FAT file system hasn't corrupted?


- Eero
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Re: Installing packages onto /media/...

[Eero Tamminen]

Hi,

ext Peter Flynn wrote:
> I have a nicely-running N800, but the apps I use are taking up most of 
> the internal space. I want to add a couple of big ones (TeX is one) and 
> I have plenty of space on SD cards. Is there a command for package 
> installation that says, in effect, "install this all in /media/foo/bar 
> and symlink it back to where you would normally have installed it"? Or 
> some other way? I guess if I knew how to view the inside of a package I 
> could work out where all the big stuff is expecting to go, and create 
> symlinks in those places to the SD cards...or would that make the 
> installer spit blood when it finds that symlinks exist where it expected 
> to create new directories?

"Easiest" way is probably something like following as root
(NOT TESTED!):
   # cp -a /usr/share/ /media/mmc1/
   # cd /usr
   # mv share share.old
   # ln -s /media/mmc1/share share
   (# rm -r share.old)

(Depending on which memory card you want to use, you might change
mmc1 to mmc2.)

Memory cards have VFAT file system which doesn't support all
the required file attributes, so they're mounted so that you cannot
execute programs from them, but /usr/share shouldn't have any
executables.  The data files should take most of the space in
the packages, so moving /usr/share on to memory card probably
helps most.


***NOTE***: if/when your memory VFAT file system card corrupts,
your device will not anymore boot!

That's why it's instead recommended booting the whole system from
a memory card that has been formatted with a file system that doesn't
corrupt as easily as VFAT (needed for Windows/OSX compatibility)
and supports all the necessary file attributes.


- Eero
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Re: Installing packages onto /media/...

[Samer Azmy]

the strange tinyg is that my old nokia N770 was asking me where to install
any application, it is odd - for me - that it is not there out of the
box!

Samer

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Martin Grimme wrote:

> Hi,
>
> another and maybe easier way is to boot from SD card. As a bonus,
> you'll get faster booting with a fast SD card.
>
> Search www.internettablettalk.com or the wiki on maemo.org for
> instructions on how to boot from SD card.
>
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
> 2009/3/9, Dmitry S. Makovey :
> > Peter Flynn wrote:
> >> I have a nicely-running N800, but the apps I use are taking up most of
> >> the internal space. I want to add a couple of big ones (TeX is one) and
> >> I have plenty of space on SD cards. Is there a command for package
> >> installation that says, in effect, "install this all in /media/foo/bar
> >> and symlink it back to where you would normally have installed it"? Or
> >> some other way? I guess if I knew how to view the inside of a package I
> >> could work out where all the big stuff is expecting to go, and create
> >> symlinks in those places to the SD cards...or would that make the
> >> installer spit blood when it finds that symlinks exist where it expected
> >> to create new directories?
> >>
> > didn't look into it myself but I think if you find a way to bolt-on
> > unionFS (http://www.filesystems.org/project-unionfs.html) you can
> > achieve that - have a "base" system on built-in flash and the rest on SD
> > or whatever else you feel like. EeePC does that out-of-the box, and I
> > think it's a darn good idea - having stable OS underneath and having
> > easy roll-back plan (just wipe FS stacked on top of "base"). Good luck
> > with your search :)
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-- 
__
http://geek2live.blogspot.com/
http://www.siteheed.com
- You pick the level of your suffering yourself - Budha-
- There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  The true
nobility is in being superior to your previous self.-- Hindu proverb
- "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power."-Abraham Lincoln
- Live Free or Die-Kernel The Canine-
- Without music, life would be a mistake.- Nietzsche
- He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and fears is
more than a king.-- John Milton
- The best portion of a good man's life is the little, nameless,unremembered
acts of kindness and love.-- William Wordsworth (1770-1850) English poet --
- The higher type of man clings to virtue, the lower type of man clings to
material comfort.  The higher type of man cherishes justice, the lower type
of man cherishes the hope of favors to  be received.-- Confucius (551-479
BC) Chinese Philosopher
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Re: Twitter shell for N810 ?

[Matt Emson]

Whet or curl will work for sending updates. It would be trivial to  
write a tool in Mono too, I already have a library that works, it  
would just need the extra wrapper to expose the functions.

Afaik, anything in Python should work.

HTH

M

Sent from my iPhone

On 9 Mar 2009, at 07:29, Andrew Daviel  wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Matt Emson wrote:
>
>> Andrew Daviel wrote:
>>> Is there a Twitter client for the tablet ?
>> Mauku. I wrote a simple one in Mono that works up to a point on the  
>> NIT, but Mauku is the way to go.
>
> I just installed that, and signed up to try Jaiku.
> But it's a GUI. What I'm looking for is something one can script,  
> like Perl Net::Twitter with perhaps less overhead.
>
> Andrew
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Re: Twitter shell for N810 ?

[Andrew Daviel]

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Matt Emson wrote:

> Andrew Daviel wrote:
>> Is there a Twitter client for the tablet ?
>> 
> Mauku. I wrote a simple one in Mono that works 
> up to a point on the NIT, but Mauku is the way 
> to go.

I just installed that, and signed up to try Jaiku.
But it's a GUI. What I'm looking for is something one can script, like 
Perl Net::Twitter with perhaps less overhead.

Andrew
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