Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updatingto PR1.2
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+ma...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Aldon Hynes aldon.hy...@orient-lodge.com wrote: How hot is it? I've started running Kernel Power which I really like. http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power Mostly because it gives me the ability to use IPv6. However, one of the other features it provides is information about the battery. Specifically, if you run modprobe bq27x00_battery it will give you access to data about the battery, including capacity, voltage_now, current_now and temp It seems like this might be useful in understanding what is going on with the battery, if it has been damaged, etc. For example, right now, my battery is reporting: POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=3979 POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=789 POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY=83 POWER_SUPPLY_TEMP=25 Yesterday, when I had drained it, the POWER_SUPPLY_TEMP climbed to 40. I'm curious about what other people are seeing for these numbers, as well as what the acceptable ranges should be. Anyone else running Kernel_Power and care to report on the status of their batteries? # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/capacity 92 # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/voltage_now 4026 # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/current_now 50 # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/temp 32 While charging via USB and watching video with headphones my battery temp goes up to 44 according to /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/temp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
Hi, ext khalid khan wrote: Thanks for your reply.I typed top in X Terminal there are so many processes running some are using less 10 - 30 % few are using 70 - 80% very hard to recognize the path don't know exactly what are these how to close it. top being started and running in the terminal naturally consumes some resources from the system, but you don't need to care about that. Just wait 10 secs after starting top for things to stabilize a bit and then paste the output from top here so that people can comment on what looks to be wrong. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
On Tue, 2010-06-08 at 07:57 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: Dear Kimmo, How do i close all (which ever is using more % CPU) application by command in X Terminal. I am new to this. Because when I write top in X Terminal it pulls all the processes running i cannot do anything later,If click on the scroll keys up down it keeps scrolling get backs to same. I cannot find page end to type anything there. Also the on screen key like Ctrl , Esc, Page Up , Page Down doesn't seems to help. Pressing 'q' quits it. See http://linux.die.net/man/1/top Is there any other way to close this more % CPU apps to close. Please tell us which ones are taking the CPU and we tell you if you can kill them or what you should do. You cannot just blindly kill stuff and expect the device to still work. -Kimmo Regards, Khalid 2010/6/7 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Mon, 2010-06-07 at 15:12 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: Thanks for your reply.I typed top in X Terminal there are so many processes running some are using less 10 - 30 % few are using 70 - 80% very hard to recognize the path don't know exactly what are these how to close it. Which ones are using 70-80%? Close all applications (except X Terminal) before checking. -Kimmo Is there any short key to turn off un-necessary processes. Thanks -- Khalid Khan 2010/6/7 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 14:10 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: In my N900 there is only two widget running on desktop AP News Foreca Weather with other shortcuts of contact icons games icon but do this eat up so much of battery that when it's been charged for 2 - 3 hrs in every 7 or 11 hrs a day. Could you check with top command in X Terminal if some process has a big number in the %CPU column? There has been some reports about Twitter applet before... -Kimmo I know if media (audio video) is running it eat more battery life. But i have tried not using it always analyse with Battery Eye App. I use normally emails (not mre than 10-20 emails, on weekends) use to play some simple games,listen music watch some videos ,talk on gtalk voice video.Browse Internet. I charge using normal USB Adapter Battery gets full in 2-3 hrs. Also notice that the pin converter provided in the nokia box if charged through that it charges but once unplugged the battery is drained. If charged with normal USB Adapter works fine with USB connected to laptop. What would be the real reason as i purchased N900 only 4 months back so i dont think it should be problem with battery. Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Please let me know. Thanks Khalid -- Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Messaging ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
Hi Eero, I have attached the details that how it looks when i write top in X Terminal. Thanks Khalid On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Eero Tamminen eero.tammi...@nokia.comwrote: Hi, ext khalid khan wrote: Thanks for your reply.I typed top in X Terminal there are so many processes running some are using less 10 - 30 % few are using 70 - 80% very hard to recognize the path don't know exactly what are these how to close it. top being started and running in the terminal naturally consumes some resources from the system, but you don't need to care about that. Just wait 10 secs after starting top for things to stabilize a bit and then paste the output from top here so that people can comment on what looks to be wrong. - Eero Mem: 238648K used, 6892K free, 0K shrd, 4700K buff, 72468K c CPU: 8.7% usr 3.7% sys 0.0% nice 87.4% idle 0.0% io 0.0 Mem: 239488K used, 6052K free, 0K shrd, 4704K buff, 72472K c CPU: 1.5% usr 0.7% sys 0.0% nice 97.6% idle 0.0% io 0.0 Mem: 240816K used, 4724K free, 0K shrd, 4816K buff, 72632K CPU: 32.0% usr 12.7% sys 0.0% nice 54.9% idle 0.0% io 0. Load average: 0.87 0.57 0.39 PID PPID USER STAT RSS %MEM %CPU COMMAND 2853 969 user R10296 4.1 16.2 /usr/bin/osso-xter 797 659 root S 16324 6.6 14.6 /usr/bin/Xorg -log 1091 969 user S10484 4.2 8.2 /usr/bin/hildon-de 746 1 pulseS5016 2.0 2.3 /usr/bin/pulseaudi 842 769 root S 912 0.3 0.7 hald-addon-input: 1083 969 user S12560 5.1 0.5 /usr/bin/hildon-st 2857 2855 user R 736 0.3 0.5 top 10 2 root SW 0 0.0 0.5 [omap2_mcspi] 716 659 root S2244 0.9 0.3 /sbin/mce --force- 928 1 user S 2384 0.9 0.2 /usr/bin/maemo-xin ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
Hi, ext khalid khan wrote: I have attached the details that how it looks when i write top in X Terminal. Strangely you had multiple MEM CPU lines, did you try to paste the output multiple times from a running top program? This output would also indicate that you did some extra activity (hald, maemo-xinput pulseaudio are active) while top was monitoring the device: CPU: 32.0% usr 12.7% sys 0.0% nice 54.9% idle 0.0% io 0. Load average: 0.87 0.57 0.39 PID PPID USER STAT RSS %MEM %CPU COMMAND 2853 969 user R10296 4.1 16.2 /usr/bin/osso-xter 797 659 root S 16324 6.6 14.6 /usr/bin/Xorg -log 1091 969 user S10484 4.2 8.2 /usr/bin/hildon-de 746 1 pulseS5016 2.0 2.3 /usr/bin/pulseaudi 842 769 root S 912 0.3 0.7 hald-addon-input: 1083 969 user S12560 5.1 0.5 /usr/bin/hildon-st 2857 2855 user R 736 0.3 0.5 top 10 2 root SW 0 0.0 0.5 [omap2_mcspi] 716 659 root S2244 0.9 0.3 /sbin/mce --force- 928 1 user S 2384 0.9 0.2 /usr/bin/maemo-xin - It's better if you do it like this: 1. start top 2. wait 10-15 secs for things to settle down 3. press q to quit top 4. tap the arrow icon to change into terminal's copy paste selection mode 5. copy top output step 3 above would make sure that your own copy-paste activity doesn't anymore change what top shows. Anyway, at least the above top output doesn't show any process using all the CPU constantly. Battery life can still be ruined by processes that use even a small amount of CPU, *if* they do it constantly (also when user isn't interacting with the device) though. Another reason for battery drain can be networking related issues (processes that talk to network too often, don't handle network disconnects/re-connects properly etc). Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Device should be protecting itself from over charging. Once the battery is full, it stops charging and waits until battery charge has dropped a certain amount until it start charging again. Btw. Charging always warms the device (as does using the device). Is the warming somehow exceptional after the PR1.2 update? - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updatingto PR1.2
How hot is it? I've started running Kernel Power which I really like. http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power Mostly because it gives me the ability to use IPv6. However, one of the other features it provides is information about the battery. Specifically, if you run modprobe bq27x00_battery it will give you access to data about the battery, including capacity, voltage_now, current_now and temp It seems like this might be useful in understanding what is going on with the battery, if it has been damaged, etc. For example, right now, my battery is reporting: POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=3979 POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=789 POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY=83 POWER_SUPPLY_TEMP=25 Yesterday, when I had drained it, the POWER_SUPPLY_TEMP climbed to 40. I'm curious about what other people are seeing for these numbers, as well as what the acceptable ranges should be. Anyone else running Kernel_Power and care to report on the status of their batteries? Aldon 2010/6/7 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 14:10 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: In my N900 there is only two widget running on desktop AP News Foreca Weather with other shortcuts of contact icons games icon but do this eat up so much of battery that when it's been charged for 2 - 3 hrs in every 7 or 11 hrs a day. Could you check with top command in X Terminal if some process has a big number in the %CPU column? There has been some reports about Twitter applet before... -Kimmo I know if media (audio video) is running it eat more battery life. But i have tried not using it always analyse with Battery Eye App. I use normally emails (not mre than 10-20 emails, on weekends) use to play some simple games,listen music watch some videos ,talk on gtalk voice video.Browse Internet. I charge using normal USB Adapter Battery gets full in 2-3 hrs. Also notice that the pin converter provided in the nokia box if charged through that it charges but once unplugged the battery is drained. If charged with normal USB Adapter works fine with USB connected to laptop. What would be the real reason as i purchased N900 only 4 months back so i dont think it should be problem with battery. Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Please let me know. Thanks Khalid -- Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Messaging ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updatingto PR1.2
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Aldon Hynes aldon.hy...@orient-lodge.com wrote: How hot is it? I've started running Kernel Power which I really like. http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power Mostly because it gives me the ability to use IPv6. However, one of the other features it provides is information about the battery. Specifically, if you run modprobe bq27x00_battery it will give you access to data about the battery, including capacity, voltage_now, current_now and temp It seems like this might be useful in understanding what is going on with the battery, if it has been damaged, etc. For example, right now, my battery is reporting: POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=3979 POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=789 POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY=83 POWER_SUPPLY_TEMP=25 Yesterday, when I had drained it, the POWER_SUPPLY_TEMP climbed to 40. I'm curious about what other people are seeing for these numbers, as well as what the acceptable ranges should be. Anyone else running Kernel_Power and care to report on the status of their batteries? # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/capacity 92 # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/voltage_now 4026 # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/current_now 50 # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/temp 32 ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 14:10 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: In my N900 there is only two widget running on desktop AP News Foreca Weather with other shortcuts of contact icons games icon but do this eat up so much of battery that when it's been charged for 2 - 3 hrs in every 7 or 11 hrs a day. Could you check with top command in X Terminal if some process has a big number in the %CPU column? There has been some reports about Twitter applet before... -Kimmo I know if media (audio video) is running it eat more battery life. But i have tried not using it always analyse with Battery Eye App. I use normally emails (not mre than 10-20 emails, on weekends) use to play some simple games,listen music watch some videos ,talk on gtalk voice video.Browse Internet. I charge using normal USB Adapter Battery gets full in 2-3 hrs. Also notice that the pin converter provided in the nokia box if charged through that it charges but once unplugged the battery is drained. If charged with normal USB Adapter works fine with USB connected to laptop. What would be the real reason as i purchased N900 only 4 months back so i dont think it should be problem with battery. Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Please let me know. Thanks Khalid -- Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Messaging ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
Thanks for your reply.I typed top in X Terminal there are so many processes running some are using less 10 - 30 % few are using 70 - 80% very hard to recognize the path don't know exactly what are these how to close it. Is there any short key to turn off un-necessary processes. Thanks -- Khalid Khan 2010/6/7 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 14:10 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: In my N900 there is only two widget running on desktop AP News Foreca Weather with other shortcuts of contact icons games icon but do this eat up so much of battery that when it's been charged for 2 - 3 hrs in every 7 or 11 hrs a day. Could you check with top command in X Terminal if some process has a big number in the %CPU column? There has been some reports about Twitter applet before... -Kimmo I know if media (audio video) is running it eat more battery life. But i have tried not using it always analyse with Battery Eye App. I use normally emails (not mre than 10-20 emails, on weekends) use to play some simple games,listen music watch some videos ,talk on gtalk voice video.Browse Internet. I charge using normal USB Adapter Battery gets full in 2-3 hrs. Also notice that the pin converter provided in the nokia box if charged through that it charges but once unplugged the battery is drained. If charged with normal USB Adapter works fine with USB connected to laptop. What would be the real reason as i purchased N900 only 4 months back so i dont think it should be problem with battery. Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Please let me know. Thanks Khalid -- Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Messaging ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
On Mon, 2010-06-07 at 15:12 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: Thanks for your reply.I typed top in X Terminal there are so many processes running some are using less 10 - 30 % few are using 70 - 80% very hard to recognize the path don't know exactly what are these how to close it. Which ones are using 70-80%? Close all applications (except X Terminal) before checking. -Kimmo Is there any short key to turn off un-necessary processes. Thanks -- Khalid Khan 2010/6/7 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 14:10 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: In my N900 there is only two widget running on desktop AP News Foreca Weather with other shortcuts of contact icons games icon but do this eat up so much of battery that when it's been charged for 2 - 3 hrs in every 7 or 11 hrs a day. Could you check with top command in X Terminal if some process has a big number in the %CPU column? There has been some reports about Twitter applet before... -Kimmo I know if media (audio video) is running it eat more battery life. But i have tried not using it always analyse with Battery Eye App. I use normally emails (not mre than 10-20 emails, on weekends) use to play some simple games,listen music watch some videos ,talk on gtalk voice video.Browse Internet. I charge using normal USB Adapter Battery gets full in 2-3 hrs. Also notice that the pin converter provided in the nokia box if charged through that it charges but once unplugged the battery is drained. If charged with normal USB Adapter works fine with USB connected to laptop. What would be the real reason as i purchased N900 only 4 months back so i dont think it should be problem with battery. Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Please let me know. Thanks Khalid -- Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Messaging ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
Dear Kimmo, How do i close all (which ever is using more % CPU) application by command in X Terminal. I am new to this. Because when I write top in X Terminal it pulls all the processes running i cannot do anything later,If click on the scroll keys up down it keeps scrolling get backs to same. I cannot find page end to type anything there. Also the on screen key like Ctrl , Esc, Page Up , Page Down doesn't seems to help. Is there any other way to close this more % CPU apps to close. Regards, Khalid 2010/6/7 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Mon, 2010-06-07 at 15:12 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: Thanks for your reply.I typed top in X Terminal there are so many processes running some are using less 10 - 30 % few are using 70 - 80% very hard to recognize the path don't know exactly what are these how to close it. Which ones are using 70-80%? Close all applications (except X Terminal) before checking. -Kimmo Is there any short key to turn off un-necessary processes. Thanks -- Khalid Khan 2010/6/7 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 14:10 +0200, ext khalid khan wrote: In my N900 there is only two widget running on desktop AP News Foreca Weather with other shortcuts of contact icons games icon but do this eat up so much of battery that when it's been charged for 2 - 3 hrs in every 7 or 11 hrs a day. Could you check with top command in X Terminal if some process has a big number in the %CPU column? There has been some reports about Twitter applet before... -Kimmo I know if media (audio video) is running it eat more battery life. But i have tried not using it always analyse with Battery Eye App. I use normally emails (not mre than 10-20 emails, on weekends) use to play some simple games,listen music watch some videos ,talk on gtalk voice video.Browse Internet. I charge using normal USB Adapter Battery gets full in 2-3 hrs. Also notice that the pin converter provided in the nokia box if charged through that it charges but once unplugged the battery is drained. If charged with normal USB Adapter works fine with USB connected to laptop. What would be the real reason as i purchased N900 only 4 months back so i dont think it should be problem with battery. Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Please let me know. Thanks Khalid -- Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Messaging ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Fwd: N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
In my N900 there is only two widget running on desktop AP News Foreca Weather with other shortcuts of contact icons games icon but do this eat up so much of battery that when it's been charged for 2 - 3 hrs in every 7 or 11 hrs a day. I know if media (audio video) is running it eat more battery life. But i have tried not using it always analyse with Battery Eye App. I use normally emails (not mre than 10-20 emails, on weekends) use to play some simple games,listen music watch some videos ,talk on gtalk voice video.Browse Internet. I charge using normal USB Adapter Battery gets full in 2-3 hrs. Also notice that the pin converter provided in the nokia box if charged through that it charges but once unplugged the battery is drained. If charged with normal USB Adapter works fine with USB connected to laptop. What would be the real reason as i purchased N900 only 4 months back so i dont think it should be problem with battery. Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Please let me know. Thanks Khalid -- Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Messaging ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
N900 is hot when charged sucks battery life after updating to PR1.2
In my N900 there is only two widget running on desktop AP News Foreca Weather with other shortcuts of contact icons games icon but do this eat up so much of battery that when it's been charged for 2 - 3 hrs in every 7 or 11 hrs a day. I know if media (audio video) is running it eat more battery life. But i have tried not using it always analyse with Battery Eye App. I use normally emails (not mre than 10-20 emails, on weekends) use to play some simple games,listen music watch some videos ,talk on gtalk voice video.Browse Internet. I charge using normal USB Adapter Battery gets full in 2-3 hrs. Also notice that the pin converter provided in the nokia box if charged through that it charges but once unplugged the battery is drained. If charged with normal USB Adapter works fine with USB connected to laptop. What would be the real reason as i purchased N900 only 4 months back so i dont think it should be problem with battery. Can over charging cause battery drain in 7-11 hrs? Please let me know. Thanks Khalid -- Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Messaging ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Solved. Was: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, ext Ryan Pavlik wrote: Glad to hear you worked it out - good to know those items in any case. I suppose the next step would be to file a bug with those projects, possibly with an strace (I think?) result to find out what they're doing when not being used. When adding these bugs to bugs.maemo.org Bugzilla, please add the use-time keyword to them so that they're easier to find. I have not yet had the same good luck as you and get about 1-2 days even if I turn the thing to offline mode when I don't want to use the internet. You can strace multiple processes at the same time. Attached is a script that helps a bit in that. I'm suspecting the continually breaking email (it must not like my imap server or something) might be affecting it, since I already removed the fm radio and load meter bits. There's already bug 3022 on FM-radio. - Eero RE: battery estimates, I remember reading not too long ago on some really clever analysis of battery discharges in some GNOME software, possibly Gnome Power Manager? It might be useful/interesting to see if that logic can be ported, because from at least a theoretical math point of view it seemed pretty sensible. Ryan Giacomo Tufano wrote: Battery problem has been solved. I had 1 critical issue and 2 minimal ones on battery life. First and worst was pidgin. The software is very aggressive when the net goes down. RTComm beta is more 'quiet'. I use it ever 'on' autoconnecting when network is up. Pidgin, apparently, don't like this approach. Gnotifier also seems to be a battery eater, much less than pidgin. Last problem in my home network. I have 2 apple ap in a wds network (concrete building). If the tablet is left in the middle between the two ap, this seems to hamper battery life. No special ideas on the why. Just noticed it. I'm now happy again, with ca. 4 days standby with moderate use. I was just willing to share my findings in case someone else is hit, many thanks for your support in debug this. Tx, gt ps: the last strange thing is that the battery applet says: '8 days', goes down one day per day up to 4 and, then, the day after is empty. Not a big problem, in reality. Battery indicators are, in my experience, not more reliable in other cases (phones or notebook). On 4/21/08, Giacomo Tufano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One possibility is a WLAN AP with broken power management, but then things shouldn't get that much worse with newer OS release. Another possibility is some process using network often. Could you try using Offline mode option from the power key menu? If it helps significantly, then the issue is related to network. I'll try this evening/night and I'll get back tomorrow with the results... Have you enabled RSS updates? Do you leave e.g. Browser window open when you don't use the device? No (I hate programs polling automatically) :-). The only program polling is the gmail notifier... What applets you have enabled in Home? Internet search, web link (no change on standard URI), Tableteer info, clock and Internet Radio (never used, sitting idle). If you do following from SSH after screen has blanked: strace -p $(pidof hildon-desktop|cut -d' ' -f1) Is there any activity? I got (very fast) after the command: gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 ioctl(3, FIONREAD, [0]) = 0 gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 poll( and then nothing else... To answer your question in a later email (so to try to save bandwidth): the device is not in RD mode... It was before the upgrade, but I disabled the RD mode after an email from you a week ago, or something like that explaining the problems with power management in this mode. Thinking about this, I did two things: upgraded the OS AND disabling RD mode. But I think the latter can't be the problem, no? btw: I disinstalled Canola (the program is very complex, it is a candidate for problems/bugs). I'll try (in this order): leave the tablet as is (to test canola); if nothing leave the tablet with net disabled; if nothing I'll try to kill the metalayer-crawler (but I had no problem before, on N810 or on the 770 I used before this one and this tablet used to have power for 4 to 7 days)... If nothing the only other thing I can do is to reinstall OS2008 and, then, add an application every 2-3 days to isolate the battery offender... If there is something else I can try, feel free to suggest other option (I'm open). :-) If there are no other suggestion I'll post a success when I found the root cause... Thank you all for your help and support, gt strace-all.sh Description: application/shellscript ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Solved. Was: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Battery problem has been solved. I had 1 critical issue and 2 minimal ones on battery life. First and worst was pidgin. The software is very aggressive when the net goes down. RTComm beta is more 'quiet'. I use it ever 'on' autoconnecting when network is up. Pidgin, apparently, don't like this approach. Gnotifier also seems to be a battery eater, much less than pidgin. Last problem in my home network. I have 2 apple ap in a wds network (concrete building). If the tablet is left in the middle between the two ap, this seems to hamper battery life. No special ideas on the why. Just noticed it. I'm now happy again, with ca. 4 days standby with moderate use. I was just willing to share my findings in case someone else is hit, many thanks for your support in debug this. Tx, gt ps: the last strange thing is that the battery applet says: '8 days', goes down one day per day up to 4 and, then, the day after is empty. Not a big problem, in reality. Battery indicators are, in my experience, not more reliable in other cases (phones or notebook). On 4/21/08, Giacomo Tufano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One possibility is a WLAN AP with broken power management, but then things shouldn't get that much worse with newer OS release. Another possibility is some process using network often. Could you try using Offline mode option from the power key menu? If it helps significantly, then the issue is related to network. I'll try this evening/night and I'll get back tomorrow with the results... Have you enabled RSS updates? Do you leave e.g. Browser window open when you don't use the device? No (I hate programs polling automatically) :-). The only program polling is the gmail notifier... What applets you have enabled in Home? Internet search, web link (no change on standard URI), Tableteer info, clock and Internet Radio (never used, sitting idle). If you do following from SSH after screen has blanked: strace -p $(pidof hildon-desktop|cut -d' ' -f1) Is there any activity? I got (very fast) after the command: gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 ioctl(3, FIONREAD, [0]) = 0 gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 poll( and then nothing else... To answer your question in a later email (so to try to save bandwidth): the device is not in RD mode... It was before the upgrade, but I disabled the RD mode after an email from you a week ago, or something like that explaining the problems with power management in this mode. Thinking about this, I did two things: upgraded the OS AND disabling RD mode. But I think the latter can't be the problem, no? btw: I disinstalled Canola (the program is very complex, it is a candidate for problems/bugs). I'll try (in this order): leave the tablet as is (to test canola); if nothing leave the tablet with net disabled; if nothing I'll try to kill the metalayer-crawler (but I had no problem before, on N810 or on the 770 I used before this one and this tablet used to have power for 4 to 7 days)... If nothing the only other thing I can do is to reinstall OS2008 and, then, add an application every 2-3 days to isolate the battery offender... If there is something else I can try, feel free to suggest other option (I'm open). :-) If there are no other suggestion I'll post a success when I found the root cause... Thank you all for your help and support, gt ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Solved. Was: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Glad to hear you worked it out - good to know those items in any case. I suppose the next step would be to file a bug with those projects, possibly with an strace (I think?) result to find out what they're doing when not being used. I have not yet had the same good luck as you and get about 1-2 days even if I turn the thing to offline mode when I don't want to use the internet. I'm suspecting the continually breaking email (it must not like my imap server or something) might be affecting it, since I already removed the fm radio and load meter bits. RE: battery estimates, I remember reading not too long ago on some really clever analysis of battery discharges in some GNOME software, possibly Gnome Power Manager? It might be useful/interesting to see if that logic can be ported, because from at least a theoretical math point of view it seemed pretty sensible. Ryan Giacomo Tufano wrote: Battery problem has been solved. I had 1 critical issue and 2 minimal ones on battery life. First and worst was pidgin. The software is very aggressive when the net goes down. RTComm beta is more 'quiet'. I use it ever 'on' autoconnecting when network is up. Pidgin, apparently, don't like this approach. Gnotifier also seems to be a battery eater, much less than pidgin. Last problem in my home network. I have 2 apple ap in a wds network (concrete building). If the tablet is left in the middle between the two ap, this seems to hamper battery life. No special ideas on the why. Just noticed it. I'm now happy again, with ca. 4 days standby with moderate use. I was just willing to share my findings in case someone else is hit, many thanks for your support in debug this. Tx, gt ps: the last strange thing is that the battery applet says: '8 days', goes down one day per day up to 4 and, then, the day after is empty. Not a big problem, in reality. Battery indicators are, in my experience, not more reliable in other cases (phones or notebook). On 4/21/08, Giacomo Tufano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One possibility is a WLAN AP with broken power management, but then things shouldn't get that much worse with newer OS release. Another possibility is some process using network often. Could you try using Offline mode option from the power key menu? If it helps significantly, then the issue is related to network. I'll try this evening/night and I'll get back tomorrow with the results... Have you enabled RSS updates? Do you leave e.g. Browser window open when you don't use the device? No (I hate programs polling automatically) :-). The only program polling is the gmail notifier... What applets you have enabled in Home? Internet search, web link (no change on standard URI), Tableteer info, clock and Internet Radio (never used, sitting idle). If you do following from SSH after screen has blanked: strace -p $(pidof hildon-desktop|cut -d' ' -f1) Is there any activity? I got (very fast) after the command: gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 ioctl(3, FIONREAD, [0]) = 0 gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 poll( and then nothing else... To answer your question in a later email (so to try to save bandwidth): the device is not in RD mode... It was before the upgrade, but I disabled the RD mode after an email from you a week ago, or something like that explaining the problems with power management in this mode. Thinking about this, I did two things: upgraded the OS AND disabling RD mode. But I think the latter can't be the problem, no? btw: I disinstalled Canola (the program is very complex, it is a candidate for problems/bugs). I'll try (in this order): leave the tablet as is (to test canola); if nothing leave the tablet with net disabled; if nothing I'll try to kill the metalayer-crawler (but I had no problem before, on N810 or on the 770 I used before this one and this tablet used to have power for 4 to 7 days)... If nothing the only other thing I can do is to reinstall OS2008 and, then, add an application every 2-3 days to isolate the battery offender... If there is something else I can try, feel free to suggest other option (I'm open). :-) If there are no other suggestion I'll post a success when I found the root cause... Thank you all for your help and support, gt ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Ryan Pavlik www.cleardefinition.com #282 + (442) - [X] A programmer started to cuss Because getting to sleep was a fuss As he lay there in bed Looping 'round in his head was: while(!asleep()) sheep++; ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
On Monday 21 Apr 2008, Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... I tried reinstalling the OS, then I tried reinstalling the OS and not restore backup (but Favorites, but I suppose this will make no difference). No luck. In system log I have *many* couple of lines saying: EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled followed by EAC mode: play enabled, rec disabled Repeating every 5-10 seconds and never stopping... The lines are starting after the MMU and omapdsp init (after ca. 20 seconds from log startup) and never ends. It certainly sounds like it's doing a lot of work. I've found that some applications hammer the battery just because they're loaded, even if they aren't apparently doing anything; the Ogg Vorbis player being a case in point. If I didn't close it after use in the evening, I'd wake up to a flat battery in the morning. A good way to see what's actually causing the problem is to open a terminal and run top - that will show you the CPU usage of the various processes. -- Tony Green Ipswich, Suffolk, England http://www.beermad.org.uk http://no2id-ip.web-brewer.co.uk ** This message is digitally signed. If your email client is unable to read digital signatures, you may see an attachment that you cannot open. See http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/faqs.html for more information. You can validate my PGP key from my website: http://www.beermad.org.uk/ * No Micro$oft products were used in the generation of this communication signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, ext Tony Green wrote: On Monday 21 Apr 2008, Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... I tried reinstalling the OS, then I tried reinstalling the OS and not restore backup (but Favorites, but I suppose this will make no difference). No luck. In system log I have *many* couple of lines saying: EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled followed by EAC mode: play enabled, rec disabled Repeating every 5-10 seconds and never stopping... The lines are starting after the MMU and omapdsp init (after ca. 20 seconds from log startup) and never ends. It certainly sounds like it's doing a lot of work. I've found that some applications hammer the battery just because they're loaded, even if they aren't apparently doing anything; the Ogg Vorbis player being a case in point. If I didn't close it after use in the evening, I'd wake up to a flat battery in the morning. A good way to see what's actually causing the problem is to open a terminal and run top - that will show you the CPU usage of the various processes. One should note that any constant CPU usage, even 0.1%, is enough to ruin use-time. I would recommend running the top (or htop) from SSH so that one isn't confused about the XTerm updates. Also, applications using maemo-launcher show up as maemo-launcher in top. The real application name can be seen with: cat /proc/PID/cmdline If the application is hildon-desktop then it's one of the applets draining the battery. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... One thing comes to mind : metalayer-crawler... This is going to be your issue. Nokia seem to deny this is a problem, indeed I've read as much on this list. However, the fact that with the metalayer-crawler running, I get about the same amount of run time as you, but disabling it, I get a week in stand by... I'd say Nokia are just plain WRONG! What will disabling the crawler do? It will stop the media player cataloging your media files. This means you would need to manually open them.. yes it is a pita, but I'd far rather have realistic battery life than my media catalogued. This is also an issue with MPlayer too... the recent MPlayer build also seems to do something similar. If I start it with my internal memory card in, it freezes whilst it calalogues the data, but removing the card, it is fine. Very annoying. At least MPlayer can be closed down easily though. M ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 11:59 +0100, ext Matt Emson wrote: Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... One thing comes to mind : metalayer-crawler... This is going to be your issue. Nokia seem to deny this is a problem, indeed I've read as much on this list. However, the fact that with the metalayer-crawler running, I get about the same amount of run time as you, but disabling it, I get a week in stand by... I'd say Nokia are just plain WRONG! Er... no, I think i've already in public discussions pointed to the crawler as culprit for draining the battery. Probably this points to a deficit in our current testing setup: we usually run verifications with the stock image that can be flashed by users, but probably we should start doing tests also with some loaded MMC. I experienced a probelm when having a loop of symlinks on the internal movinand. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... I tried reinstalling the OS, then I tried reinstalling the OS and not restore backup (but Favorites, but I suppose this will make no difference). No luck. In system log I have *many* couple of lines saying: EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled followed by EAC mode: play enabled, rec disabled Repeating every 5-10 seconds and never stopping... The lines are starting after the MMU and omapdsp init (after ca. 20 seconds from log startup) and never ends. Installed on the N810 are: pidgin, canola, load-applet, maemo-recorder, mauku, mnotify, modest (not autocheking emails), openssh, skype, wizard mounter and xournal. IIRC, the problem began to appear after the OS upgrade. But could be also after maemo-recorder and/or pidgin installation. Or, simply, could be the battery... Any hint for me? TIA, gt ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, ext Tony Green wrote: On Monday 21 Apr 2008, Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... It certainly sounds like it's doing a lot of work. I've found that some applications hammer the battery just because they're loaded, even if they One should note that any constant CPU usage, even 0.1%, is enough to ruin use-time. I would recommend running the top (or htop) from SSH so that one isn't confused about the XTerm updates. Also, applications using maemo-launcher show up as maemo-launcher in top. The real application name can be seen with: cat /proc/PID/cmdline If the application is hildon-desktop then it's one of the applets draining the battery. I tried your suggestion (ssh remotely on the idle tablet). Tried to follow CPU usage for a while, then stopped and retried... The 'metalayer-crawler' is, apparently, idle (bad, I'd like a simple solution). :-( The only two processes that are using CPU (both at every check of top) are: 'cx3110x' and 'OMAP McSPI/0' I don't really know what those processes do, nor if they are related to the SSH connection. But they're using CPU... A look at /proc/PID/status says 'SleepAVG' 91% ijust in case this is useful... Again, any hint to further proceeding is appreciated. TIA, gt ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Giacomo Tufano wrote: The 'metalayer-crawler' is, apparently, idle (bad, I'd like a simple solution). :-( Even though it often doesn't look like it is the metalayer-crawler, killing it always makes a big difference for me. Honestly, I had my first week of N800 ownership with the battery lasting not much past one day. If it still had a charge in the morning, it was at critical levels. I removed the crawler after seeking advice, and the battery life is not up to a week. I use my tablet about 1 - 2 hours a day, 5+ nights a week. I can charge it up at the weekend and easily still have battery enough to surf on Friday. If I leave it in stand by (select switch off WLAN, lock keys and turn off screen) it will last over 7 days with no use and still have at least 1 hour of use online. The key, kill the crawler process and stop it from re starting and turn off bluetooth and WLAN when you are not using the device. The worrying thing is that the metalayer-crawler might actually be harming the battery by putting it at critical levels repeatedly. Lithium ion batteries like to be about 80% charged, any more than 80% and they can be unhappy if left charged for periods, but also - any less than say 40% and they also get unhappy. Most batteries die because they go below the minimum safe charge level, which harms their chemical makeup and their capacity (from what I have read.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 14:09 +0100, ext Matt Emson wrote: Giacomo Tufano wrote: The 'metalayer-crawler' is, apparently, idle (bad, I'd like a simple solution). :-( Even though it often doesn't look like it is the metalayer-crawler, killing it always makes a big difference for me. Honestly, I had my ... You could check it with strace -p PID of metalayer-crawler (Debian armel package probably works). It should be sitting in the poll() system call when it's idle. BR; Kimmo ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Kimmo Hämäläinen wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 14:09 +0100, ext Matt Emson wrote: Even though it often doesn't look like it is the metalayer-crawler, killing it always makes a big difference for me. Honestly, I had my ... You could check it with strace -p PID of metalayer-crawler (Debian armel package probably works). It should be sitting in the poll() system call when it's idle. Killing the crawler is good enough to get the desired results in my case. I can't see that re-enabling it will be helpful for my own personal tablet. The power drain is bad news, and should be fixable. Idon't claim to know exactly what causes the issue, but I still hold up the opinion that the crawler is bad news on many* N8x0 systems. I've seen a load of users have this issue on the IT forums and this list. Something somewhere is going wrong. For me it was this, so I stick to my guns and say - Metalater-crawler == poor battery life. Obviously, YMMV. Whatever the issue.. it's real. It's a big issue for many users. It's not an obvious error, cause I'm guessing it would be fixed by now if that were the case. All I can report is what I have already stated in a hope it can be useful. * I can't quantify many, so I will not claim all. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, ext Giacomo Tufano wrote: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Tony Green wrote: On Monday 21 Apr 2008, Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... It certainly sounds like it's doing a lot of work. I've found that some applications hammer the battery just because they're loaded, even if they One should note that any constant CPU usage, even 0.1%, is enough to ruin use-time. I would recommend running the top (or htop) from SSH so that one isn't confused about the XTerm updates. Also, applications using maemo-launcher show up as maemo-launcher in top. The real application name can be seen with: cat /proc/PID/cmdline If the application is hildon-desktop then it's one of the applets draining the battery. I tried your suggestion (ssh remotely on the idle tablet). Tried to follow CPU usage for a while, then stopped and retried... The 'metalayer-crawler' is, apparently, idle (bad, I'd like a simple solution). :-( The only two processes that are using CPU (both at every check of top) are: 'cx3110x' and 'OMAP McSPI/0' I don't really know what those processes do, nor if they are related to the SSH connection. They are. They are kernel tasks, first one is related to WLAN and second one is interrupt handler. We need to look for the culprit from elsewhere. But they're using CPU... A look at /proc/PID/status says 'SleepAVG' 91% ijust in case this is useful... Again, any hint to further proceeding is appreciated. One possibility is a WLAN AP with broken power management, but then things shouldn't get that much worse with newer OS release. Another possibility is some process using network often. Could you try using Offline mode option from the power key menu? If it helps significantly, then the issue is related to network. Have you enabled RSS updates? Do you leave e.g. Browser window open when you don't use the device? What applets you have enabled in Home? If you do following from SSH after screen has blanked: strace -p $(pidof hildon-desktop|cut -d' ' -f1) Is there any activity? - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, ext Giacomo Tufano wrote: On Monday 21 Apr 2008, Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... Btw. have you set your device into RD mode? It's not cleared when the device is flashed and affects the battery life too (there are also other reasons why it shouldn't be used for longer than necessary). - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Kimmo Hämäläinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 14:09 +0100, ext Matt Emson wrote: Giacomo Tufano wrote: The 'metalayer-crawler' is, apparently, idle (bad, I'd like a simple solution). :-( Even though it often doesn't look like it is the metalayer-crawler, killing it always makes a big difference for me. Honestly, I had my You could check it with strace -p PID of metalayer-crawler (Debian armel package probably works). It should be sitting in the poll() system call when it's idle. It is. Sitting on poll(). btw: strace was only an 'apt-get install strace' away (no special repository added). Meanwhile I found a localization bug, btw... when apt-get complains about unauthenticated package (strace) the correct answer is not 'y' (as suggested by the text) but 's', the first letter of 'sì', 'yes' in Italian. Funny. :-) Where should I file a bug, which category? Tx. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, ext Matt Emson wrote: Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... One thing comes to mind : metalayer-crawler... This is going to be your issue. Nokia seem to deny this is a problem, indeed I've read as much on this list. However, the fact that with the metalayer-crawler running, I get about the same amount of run time as you, but disabling it, I get a week in stand by... I'd say Nokia are just plain WRONG! To fix bugs they need to be reproduced. In maemo bugzilla there are two bugs on crawler. The one about it going berzerk on symlinks in MyDocs folder is a known regression: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1842 Workaround until the fix is delivered is easy. Don't create symlinks (you cannot create them from the device UI[1], so it's not really a normal device use-case). Another bug is this where people state that they don't have a symlink: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1842 The cause is unknown because people haven't provided the requested information. If you're seeing the crawler issue, please provide the requested information about the situation in which the bug manifests: strace -p $(pidof metalayer-crawler) ls -l /proc/$(pidof metalayer-crawler)/fd/ - Eero [1] If you need to see files from elsewhere on the rootfs than MyDocs, you could either browse there with Browser or Gtk fileselector (in a program that uses Gtk file selector instead of the Hildon one). ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, ext Giacomo Tufano wrote: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Kimmo Hämäläinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 14:09 +0100, ext Matt Emson wrote: Giacomo Tufano wrote: The 'metalayer-crawler' is, apparently, idle (bad, I'd like a simple solution). :-( Even though it often doesn't look like it is the metalayer-crawler, killing it always makes a big difference for me. Honestly, I had my You could check it with strace -p PID of metalayer-crawler (Debian armel package probably works). It should be sitting in the poll() system call when it's idle. It is. Sitting on poll(). In that case crawler is not the issue. btw: strace was only an 'apt-get install strace' away (no special repository added). Meanwhile I found a localization bug, btw... when apt-get complains about unauthenticated package (strace) the correct answer is not 'y' (as suggested by the text) but 's', the first letter of 'sì', 'yes' in Italian. Funny. :-) Where should I file a bug, which category? Tx. I don't think we've modified apt-get, so it's probably an upstream bug. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One possibility is a WLAN AP with broken power management, but then things shouldn't get that much worse with newer OS release. Another possibility is some process using network often. Could you try using Offline mode option from the power key menu? If it helps significantly, then the issue is related to network. I'll try this evening/night and I'll get back tomorrow with the results... Have you enabled RSS updates? Do you leave e.g. Browser window open when you don't use the device? No (I hate programs polling automatically) :-). The only program polling is the gmail notifier... What applets you have enabled in Home? Internet search, web link (no change on standard URI), Tableteer info, clock and Internet Radio (never used, sitting idle). If you do following from SSH after screen has blanked: strace -p $(pidof hildon-desktop|cut -d' ' -f1) Is there any activity? I got (very fast) after the command: gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 ioctl(3, FIONREAD, [0]) = 0 gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 poll( and then nothing else... To answer your question in a later email (so to try to save bandwidth): the device is not in RD mode... It was before the upgrade, but I disabled the RD mode after an email from you a week ago, or something like that explaining the problems with power management in this mode. Thinking about this, I did two things: upgraded the OS AND disabling RD mode. But I think the latter can't be the problem, no? btw: I disinstalled Canola (the program is very complex, it is a candidate for problems/bugs). I'll try (in this order): leave the tablet as is (to test canola); if nothing leave the tablet with net disabled; if nothing I'll try to kill the metalayer-crawler (but I had no problem before, on N810 or on the 770 I used before this one and this tablet used to have power for 4 to 7 days)... If nothing the only other thing I can do is to reinstall OS2008 and, then, add an application every 2-3 days to isolate the battery offender... If there is something else I can try, feel free to suggest other option (I'm open). :-) If there are no other suggestion I'll post a success when I found the root cause... Thank you all for your help and support, gt ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Eero Tamminen wrote: It is. Sitting on poll(). In that case crawler is not the issue. Humour me. Kill the crawler, stop it form respawning (rename the file), fully charge your tablet, leave it over night. If it is dead as per usual, yes it is another issue. What is there to lose, really? Eero, I realise you know more than I do, but just because the crawler is currently idle, does not mean it stays idle all the time. If you can explain how else killing the crawler might solve my battery issues, I would love to know. It's a PITA to not have it working, but it just solves all battery issues by removing it. Going from no power in the morning from a full charge, to lasting for a week.. come on, it's not just co-incidence. M ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, ext Giacomo Tufano wrote: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One possibility is a WLAN AP with broken power management, but then things shouldn't get that much worse with newer OS release. Another possibility is some process using network often. Could you try using Offline mode option from the power key menu? If it helps significantly, then the issue is related to network. I'll try this evening/night and I'll get back tomorrow with the results... Have you enabled RSS updates? Do you leave e.g. Browser window open when you don't use the device? No (I hate programs polling automatically) :-). The only program polling is the gmail notifier... What applets you have enabled in Home? Internet search, web link (no change on standard URI), Tableteer info, clock and Internet Radio (never used, sitting idle). What about the Statusbar applets? Do you have an account set up and are you online? If you do following from SSH after screen has blanked: strace -p $(pidof hildon-desktop|cut -d' ' -f1) Is there any activity? I got (very fast) after the command: gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 ioctl(3, FIONREAD, [0]) = 0 gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 poll( and then nothing else... So I guess you don't have any cpuload applet either. Many of them could be implemented badly i.e. polling even when the screen turns off. I would disable any applets that you don't use. If you reboot after that, you've saved a bit of memory too. :-) To answer your question in a later email (so to try to save bandwidth): the device is not in RD mode... It was before the upgrade, but I disabled the RD mode after an email from you a week ago, or something like that explaining the problems with power management in this mode. Thinking about this, I did two things: upgraded the OS AND disabling RD mode. But I think the latter can't be the problem, no? No. btw: I disinstalled Canola (the program is very complex, it is a candidate for problems/bugs). I'll try (in this order): leave the tablet as is (to test canola); if nothing leave the tablet with net disabled; if nothing I'll try to kill the metalayer-crawler (but I had no problem before, on N810 or on the 770 I used before this one and this tablet used to have power for 4 to 7 days)... If nothing the only other thing I can do is to reinstall OS2008 and, then, add an application every 2-3 days to isolate the battery offender... If there is something else I can try, feel free to suggest other option (I'm open). :-) If there are no other suggestion I'll post a success when I found the root cause... Thanks, your effort is really appreciated! Thank you all for your help and support, - Eero PS. This is more of a note for others. The Nokia FM-radio applet for N800 can currently drain the battery a bit too. AFAIK it should be fixed when the next release comes out. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, ext Matt Emson wrote: Eero Tamminen wrote: It is. Sitting on poll(). In that case crawler is not the issue. Humour me. Kill the crawler, stop it form respawning (rename the file), fully charge your tablet, leave it over night. If it is dead as per usual, yes it is another issue. What is there to lose, really? Eero, I realise you know more than I do, but just because the crawler is currently idle, does not mean it stays idle all the time. If it doesn't, the cause for that would need to be found out. As we haven't run to the problem you have, unfortunately you need to help us to find the cause for it (i.e. way to reproduce it) if you want it fixed. If you have some time to test this, maybe you could strace crawler overnight to see whether anything triggers it to go non-idle? Before after that you should check from top that it's not using CPU. If you can explain how else killing the crawler might solve my battery issues, I would love to know. It's a PITA to not have it working, but it just solves all battery issues by removing it. Going from no power in the morning from a full charge, to lasting for a week.. come on, it's not just co-incidence. There could be other changes / reasons for it, maybe you did some other change during the same day? Or maybe you inserted a memory card which triggered something in crawler (like the one MMC mentioned in Bugzilla which had millions of folders on it that had been created by accident)? - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Hi, On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Giacomo Tufano wrote: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What applets you have enabled in Home? Internet search, web link (no change on standard URI), Tableteer info, clock and Internet Radio (never used, sitting idle). What about the Statusbar applets? Do you have an account set up and are you online? If you do following from SSH after screen has blanked: strace -p $(pidof hildon-desktop|cut -d' ' -f1) Is there any activity? I got (very fast) after the command: gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 ioctl(3, FIONREAD, [0]) = 0 gettimeofday(whatever) = 0 poll( and then nothing else... So I guess you don't have any cpuload applet either. Many of them could be implemented badly i.e. polling even when the screen turns off. I have load-applet (0.8.2-2). But I use it from many months (and many tablets and OS versions) and I never had any problem... I would disable any applets that you don't use. If you reboot after that, you've saved a bit of memory too. :-) I know... my use case for the load-applet is that I use it to understand when a click on Google Reader was understood by the tablet... I see the CPU gauge going up for some seconds... ;-) The same holds true for many Web 2.0 apps... :-) I have also gnotifier, configured and working. Update time 15 minutes... If there is something else I can try, feel free to suggest other option (I'm open). :-) If there are no other suggestion I'll post a success when I found the root cause... A last note... the EAC mode: play enable, rec (dis)(e)nabled couple of messages I see in system log are normal? It doesn't seem so... Bye, gt ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
Giacomo Tufano wrote: A last note... the EAC mode: play enable, rec (dis)(e)nabled couple of messages I see in system log are normal? It doesn't seem so... This is related to sound playback. If you have touchscreen or system sounds enabled you may have a lot of those messages (each screen touch plays sound). Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
I understand they are sound related, but I'm sure that I have those messages, in couples, every 10 seconds or so whatever I do. Also when the tablet is idle, with keyboard and screen locked. No sound is heard, of course. This is the reason I was thinking this was strange... But I really don't know. Btw (as a comment to a previous message): everyone have a system log, do 'dmesg' on a terminal to see it. Have a nice evening, gt On 4/21/08, Frantisek Dufka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giacomo Tufano wrote: A last note... the EAC mode: play enable, rec (dis)(e)nabled couple of messages I see in system log are normal? It doesn't seem so... This is related to sound playback. If you have touchscreen or system sounds enabled you may have a lot of those messages (each screen touch plays sound). Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
On Monday 21 Apr 2008, Giacomo Tufano wrote: Btw (as a comment to a previous message): everyone have a system log, do 'dmesg' on a terminal to see it. Have a nice evening, gt So I do! Much quieter than yours though - just a few messages about voltage regulation. -- Tony Green Ipswich, Suffolk, England http://www.beermad.org.uk http://no2id-ip.web-brewer.co.uk ** This message is digitally signed. If your email client is unable to read digital signatures, you may see an attachment that you cannot open. See http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/faqs.html for more information. You can validate my PGP key from my website: http://www.beermad.org.uk/ * No Micro$oft products were used in the generation of this communication signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life N800 + OS2008
Thanks for all feedback. After Christmas break I started with fresh 2008 installation and trying to install more and more applications and find suspect with combination of strace/htop. thanks Pit On Dec 27, 2007 9:10 AM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, ext Brad Midgley wrote: A quick thing to check is running 'top' and looking for cpu bandits. I had a 3rd part app gobbling up cpu due to a bug once; another time an internal launcher app was going nuts and it turned out to be caused by an sdcard corruption problem. A process waking up very often can also be a problem as it doesn't allow hardware to sleep[1], but if it consumes very little CPU each time, you don't see it in top. Strace can find those out, see: http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/strace - Eero [1] For CPU, even a badly coded program shouldn't be active more often than at several seconds intervals when it's not doing anything for the user. Network access should happen *much* more infrequently (say at max 1/2 min interval even in badly coded program) Want to be a bloat detective? Pick a binary, any binary. There, you found it! -- Piotr - ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life N800 + OS2008
On 22/12/2007, Paul Dundas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Midgley wrote: Piotr A quick thing to check is running 'top' and looking for cpu bandits. Yeah - when my idle N800 2007.whatever lost all charge in an afternoon, it turned out to be some task running a constant 3% CPU. Top (or htop, if you have it) is worth a look to check for such things. . hildon-desktop eats 25% cpu when animating new mail. The new mail animation started happening after i installed and configured modest ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Battery Life N800 + OS2008
Hi, I know battery life topic was brought to this forum, but now I'd like to ask about new OS2008 and battery life. I have noticed significant decrease since I moved to OS2k8. I didn't ask before as I was waiting for official release. Now I can confirm this is issue (in my case). Running on OS2007 I could use my nokia for about 5 days. Now it last for about 1 day and I have to re-charge. I know CPU works faster and this means more power as well as there are more improvements etc etc. Is this only one explanation? I usually try to close all applications I don't need when not using my tablet. Does anyone experience the same problem? Maybe this is coincidence and my battery/charger is broken? However it charges and everything looks fine. thanks Pit P.S. I really appreciate new OS. Most applications I use is already ported. Everything is much faster and apart from my battery life concerns it looks fantastic. Very well-done Nokia! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life N800 + OS2008
Hi, I have experienced exactly the same with os2008beta. I also began wondering if my battery began to wear off signiricantly. I have just installed the current os2008 and will see how it affects battery life. Cheers, Martin 2007/12/21, Piotr Zagorowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I know battery life topic was brought to this forum, but now I'd like to ask about new OS2008 and battery life. I have noticed significant decrease since I moved to OS2k8. I didn't ask before as I was waiting for official release. Now I can confirm this is issue (in my case). Running on OS2007 I could use my nokia for about 5 days. Now it last for about 1 day and I have to re-charge. I know CPU works faster and this means more power as well as there are more improvements etc etc. Is this only one explanation? I usually try to close all applications I don't need when not using my tablet. Does anyone experience the same problem? Maybe this is coincidence and my battery/charger is broken? However it charges and everything looks fine. thanks Pit P.S. I really appreciate new OS. Most applications I use is already ported. Everything is much faster and apart from my battery life concerns it looks fantastic. Very well-done Nokia! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life N800 + OS2008
Hi, On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 17:28 +, ext Martin Grimme wrote: Hi, I have experienced exactly the same with os2008beta. I also began wondering if my battery began to wear off signiricantly. I have just installed the current os2008 and will see how it affects battery life. Cheers, Martin 2007/12/21, Piotr Zagorowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I know battery life topic was brought to this forum, but now I'd like to ask about new OS2008 and battery life. I have noticed significant decrease since I moved to OS2k8. I didn't ask before as I was waiting for official release. Now I can confirm this is issue (in my case). Running on OS2007 I could use my nokia for about 5 days. Now it last for about 1 day and I have to re-charge. I know CPU works faster and this means more power as well as there are more improvements etc etc. Is this only one explanation? I usually try to close all applications I don't need when not using my tablet. Does anyone experience the same problem? Maybe this is coincidence and my battery/charger is broken? However it charges and everything looks fine. thanks Pit P.S. I really appreciate new OS. Most applications I use is already ported. Everything is much faster and apart from my battery life concerns it looks fantastic. Very well-done Nokia! This is the state of things: - during development we test all the common expected usecases with the stock fw - we make sure that the claims we make on the advertisement material and in the box are backed by corresponding reality - the last number i saw were pointing to above 20 days of standby idle (meaning that you charge the battery and let the device untouched for 20 days) even if we officially support about 10, iirc - the higher frequency does _not_ affect negatively the use time unless you are doing something cpu-intensive I would suggest you to do like others have done before: try without any extra application, then proceed by bisection, by installing half of those you have now and see if there is any significant decay of battery life. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 19:30 +0300, Igor Stoppa wrote: Battery life eating is a particularly tricky bug to nail down to a single application (or home applet). Yes, for PCs and even laptops most issues are almost unnoticeable by average users, but in our case any non-optimization (leave alone a bug) has clear repercusions. We need to provide to developers and power users tools appropriate for them to detect those problems. Now we are stil not there, at least not at a user level. That's why users shouldn't try a bunch of new apps in one go. But most of them/us will anyway, regardless of how clever and well presented is your advice. Humans are able to install malware in their own bodies knowing that is not healthy, leave alone their devices. :) Maybe some way to easily share information about battery life would be useful on maemo.org ... Yes! Quim: what do you think about extending the rating of applications so that they could cover several aspects, including but not only battery usage? I think that we (and I mean literally we, the people in this list) should rank more and be more aware of the elements to consider when ranking i.e. Quality Awareness - http://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?id=253type=g To go ahead with this we need to offer better tools and documentation for the own developers and also to the conscious end users (aka maemo lovers). For instance, I'm about to rank and comment one application that is getting a lot of good comments. In general I like it, even if it's still beta quality. I would give it 4 stars today. But there are a couple of things I dislike: - the guy is not answering to bug reports in his garage project (I filed some, I have more) - I have the suspicion that since I use this app the battery life has shortened considerably, even if most of the time I have the app minimized. I would like to try but I'm more a busy guy than a good hacker. With the current tools I don't see an easy way for me to check (without asking Eero or Igor, but this is like cheating) :) Eventually imo we have to come up with an evaluation suite that developers in first place and users later can easily refer to. Yes, we are moving in this direction. We released some tools officially supported and there is the Quality Awareness project. We are still missing something like a tutorial with easy to follow steps and a checklist to help developers realize themselves how good or bad their software is regardless of how good it looks in the screenshots. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
Eero Tamminen wrote: You use extra hardware for that, not software. :-) Extra hardware may not be needed. But anyway, that is not really relevant information when talking about applications. The question is not how much doing a thing consumes power, but is doing that thing really something that needs to be done. True. But still seeing power consumption could help and having actual current drawn from battery somewhere in /proc would be very useful in many situations. Even if I agree with things you said I still think your response is influenced by the fact that Nokia hides such values from us (either because it is not possible due to current hw design or because it thinks such information is sensitive). I had iPAQ 3870 and there was such value available. It helped me a lot (both as user and programmer) to understand what is the cost of having some features enabled (playing audio, brightness on higher level, bluetooth communication, cpu busy, reading from card, ...). Things are not black and white. Maybe sometimes something doesn't need to be done. If you know the costs you may avoid some features or try to optimize its usage in your application. If you don't know the consumption then you can't optimize (both as user and developer). Examples of such optimizations: It is worthwhile to implement caching network data to mmc card while playing media (i.e. read playlist ahead as fast as possible from network) or is streaming on demand good enough? Does the brightness consumes as much as I expect? How much do I save when turning volume down? Does black theme save power? These were just examples and some of them may not be good but you should still see the point. Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
Hi, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: True. But still seeing power consumption could help and having actual current drawn from battery somewhere in /proc would be very useful in many situations. Even if I agree with things you said I still think your response is influenced by the fact that Nokia hides such values from us (either because it is not possible due to current hw design or because it thinks such information is sensitive). I had iPAQ 3870 and there was such value available. It helped me a lot (both as user and programmer) to understand what is the cost of having some features enabled (playing audio, brightness on higher level, bluetooth communication, cpu busy, reading from card, ...). Things are not black and white. Maybe sometimes something doesn't need to be done. If you know the costs you may avoid some features or try to optimize its usage in your application. If you don't know the consumption then you can't optimize (both as user and developer). Examples of such optimizations: It is worthwhile to implement caching network data to mmc card while playing media (i.e. read playlist ahead as fast as possible from network) or is streaming on demand good enough? Does the brightness consumes as much as I expect? How much do I save when turning volume down? Does black theme save power? AFAIK no (unless you mean switching the display off :)). Igor? These were just examples and some of them may not be good but you should still see the point. Yes, they are good points. Better tools are always needed. I'm just frustrated that people don't use the tools that are already available, both on desktop[1] and for the device. Even with the currency consumption meter you would still need top strace to find out which process actually consumes the power. It's not necessary that the application developers themselves use the tools (they are busy developing their applications), but the (power :)) users can use these tools also. - Eero [1] E.g. gnome power manager was something horrible when I last straced it on Ubuntu, it was constantly polling... I later noticed that it was mentioned also on the powertop page. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On 17/08/07, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: True. But still seeing power consumption could help and having actual current drawn from battery somewhere in /proc would be very useful in many situations. snip These were just examples and some of them may not be good but you should still see the point. Yes, they are good points. Better tools are always needed. I'm just frustrated that people don't use the tools that are already available, both on desktop[1] and for the device. Even with the currency consumption meter you would still need top strace to find out which process actually consumes the power. So it turns out claws is doing a gettimeofday poll every 10 seconds, so you're right the strace was useful, but it's hard to quantify the affect of this polling and whether it's significant enough to warrant the developers fixing. The power consumption of applications in the foreground should also be good as users can set the keyboard lock with an application in the foreground. Michael ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
Hi, ext Michael Thompson wrote: On 17/08/07, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: True. But still seeing power consumption could help and having actual current drawn from battery somewhere in /proc would be very useful in many situations. snip These were just examples and some of them may not be good but you should still see the point. Yes, they are good points. Better tools are always needed. I'm just frustrated that people don't use the tools that are already available, both on desktop[1] and for the device. Even with the currency consumption meter you would still need top strace to find out which process actually consumes the power. So it turns out claws is doing a gettimeofday poll every 10 seconds, so you're right the strace was useful, but it's hard to quantify the affect of this polling and whether it's significant enough to warrant the developers fixing. 10 sec interval is not that bad. (LinuxThreads thread manager polls at 8 sec interval in the devices i.e. all apps using threads poll in the device, NPTL will fix that, but requires a new toolchain) If Claws would be using network at that interval or e.g. writing to Flash, then it would definitely be bad. Also if it does that polling when it's not visible (and updates screen?) when it's not visible, that would also be bad. Because you can have multiple processes running at the same time, and the device doesn't have anything that would sync these wakeups, it would be better that applications don't do extra wakeups. As a rule of thumb, if something wakes up more often than once every 1-2 secs, that's definitely something that has to be fixed. But basically I consider anything doing wakeups on its own broken, the wakeups should be event based, not timer based[1]. E.g. for monitoring files there's inotify (or earlier dnotify) and wrapper for that offered by gnome-vfs. [1] Something like clock is exception, but it wakes at ~1 min interval. Things like CPU meters could have dynamic wakeups, if nothing happens wake up (to check CPU state) less often (once every 5 secs?), and increase the frequency when CPU is busy (to once a sec?). Unfortunately there's no event to tell that CPU usage changed :-) The power consumption of applications in the foreground should also be good as users can set the keyboard lock with an application in the foreground. If application doesn't get user input, it shouldn't have anything to do. Applications should only react to events they receive. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On 17/08/07, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, ext Michael Thompson wrote: On 17/08/07, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: True. But still seeing power consumption could help and having actual current drawn from battery somewhere in /proc would be very useful in many situations. snip These were just examples and some of them may not be good but you should still see the point. Yes, they are good points. Better tools are always needed. I'm just frustrated that people don't use the tools that are already available, both on desktop[1] and for the device. Even with the currency consumption meter you would still need top strace to find out which process actually consumes the power. So it turns out claws is doing a gettimeofday poll every 10 seconds, so you're right the strace was useful, but it's hard to quantify the affect of this polling and whether it's significant enough to warrant the developers fixing. 10 sec interval is not that bad. (LinuxThreads thread manager polls at 8 sec interval in the devices i.e. all apps using threads poll in the device, NPTL will fix that, but requires a new toolchain) If Claws would be using network at that interval or e.g. writing to Flash, then it would definitely be bad. Also if it does that polling when it's not visible (and updates screen?) when it's not visible, that would also be bad. It happens when claws is minimised and set to off-line mode. I imagine it could be related to code to poll servers at some interval, but I haven't had time to look into it any further. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On Fri, 2007-08-17 at 10:46 +0300, Eero Tamminen wrote: How do we know what the actual current consumption is? You use extra hardware for that, not software. :-) I always wondered if the N800 platform made this information available. I'm still wondering what the proprietary power management software really gets as raw info about battery state :). Laurent ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Battery Life
Hi, The battery life of the N800 seems to depend a lot on the applications that are running, I guess in particular when it is idling. The result of this is that the battery indicator can be very inaccurate, telling me it should last for days and it will then die in hours. Ideally I'd like this not to be the case but in the interim I'd like to know which application is causing the problem. When will Nokia expose the current consumption information, in for instance /proc? Without this information we cannot determine which application is the culprit much less set about improving the performance. Is there another indirect method that could be used, perhaps the rate of interrupts for each application? Regards, Michael ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
You could probably watch CPU usage as a pretty good indicator. I've noticed just having some applications in the foreground (like the browser on a complicated webpage) will shoot the CPU usage way up. IIRC, one of the Nokia engineers stated that apps are basically stopped (like hitting Ctrl+Z in bash) when they are minimized, and resumed when they're foregrounded. I might have made this up, but based on the CPU monitor it certainly would appear that something like that is going on. --Paul On 8/16/07, Michael Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The battery life of the N800 seems to depend a lot on the applications that are running, I guess in particular when it is idling. The result of this is that the battery indicator can be very inaccurate, telling me it should last for days and it will then die in hours. Ideally I'd like this not to be the case but in the interim I'd like to know which application is causing the problem. When will Nokia expose the current consumption information, in for instance /proc? Without this information we cannot determine which application is the culprit much less set about improving the performance. Is there another indirect method that could be used, perhaps the rate of interrupts for each application? Regards, Michael ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
Hi, ext Michael Thompson wrote: Hi, The battery life of the N800 seems to depend a lot on the applications that are running, I guess in particular when it is idling. The result of this is that the battery indicator can be very inaccurate, telling me it should last for days and it will then die in hours. Ideally I'd like this not to be the case but in the interim I'd like to know which application is causing the problem. When will Nokia expose the current consumption information, in for instance /proc? Without this information we cannot determine which application is the culprit much less set about improving the performance. Is there another indirect method that could be used, perhaps the rate of interrupts for each application? Just use top and strace. top is part of busybox and strace is in Maemo repositories. If you're not interacting with the application (and it's not e.g. playing music), it should not do anything. You can monitor all applications with something like: strace $(cd /proc; for pid in [0-9]*; do if [ $pid -gt 500 ] [ $pid != $$ ]; then echo -p $pid; fi; done) Instead of 500 you can select suitable value from ps output above which PID you want to monitor all processes. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On 16/08/07, Paul Klapperich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip IIRC, one of the Nokia engineers stated that apps are basically stopped (like hitting Ctrl+Z in bash) when they are minimized, and resumed when they're foregrounded. I might have made this up, but based on the CPU monitor it certainly would appear that something like that is going on. snip This might be true in some cases, but for instance Cannola will continue to play music when minimised, so I'm sure there are plenty of cases where this isn't true ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
Hi, ext Michael Thompson wrote: IIRC, one of the Nokia engineers stated that apps are basically stopped (like hitting Ctrl+Z in bash) when they are minimized, and resumed when they're foregrounded. I might have made this up, but based on the CPU monitor it certainly would appear that something like that is going on. snip This might be true in some cases, but for instance Cannola will continue to play music when minimised, so I'm sure there are plenty of cases where this isn't true Applications should stop all visual activity and updates when they are not visible. This is voluntarily, as it naturally depends on the actual use-case e.g. all Nokia apps do this except for media player and iradio applet which play music also backgrounded. If you notice that some 3rd party app has activity although you're not using it and/or it's not visible nor there's no other good reason for it to be active, file a bug against it. Note that all SDL games are busy always, it's an issue in the SDL library and there's a bug about it in the SDL bugzilla (Nokia games quit when they are backgrounded, you can then continue them from their startup screen). Gtk applications usually behave better in this respect, they only react to events, not busyloop themselves. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On 8/16/07, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Applications should stop all visual activity and updates when they are not visible. This is voluntarily, as it naturally depends on the actual use-case e.g. all Nokia apps do this except for media player and iradio applet which play music also backgrounded. If you notice that some 3rd party app has activity although you're not using it and/or it's not visible nor there's no other good reason for it to be active, file a bug against it. Given the importance of this to battery life, it would be cool if apps were sent SIGSUSP when they were minimized or some the user stopped interacting with them. If an application (e.g. media player) wanted to override this behaviour, they could do so in their .desktop file, .service file or osso_initialize() call. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 16:51 +0100, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On 8/16/07, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Applications should stop all visual activity and updates when they are not visible. This is voluntarily, as it naturally depends on the actual use-case e.g. all Nokia apps do this except for media player and iradio applet which play music also backgrounded. If you notice that some 3rd party app has activity although you're not using it and/or it's not visible nor there's no other good reason for it to be active, file a bug against it. Given the importance of this to battery life, it would be cool if apps were sent SIGSUSP when they were minimized or some the user stopped interacting with them. If an application (e.g. media player) wanted to override this behaviour, they could do so in their .desktop file, .service file or osso_initialize() call. No. Apps that do useless stuff are buggy and the bugs must be fixed. You are proposing a shortcut that is encouraging crappy code to be written, since the system will always take care of saying: psst, pretend to be a properly written piece of code. If an application has nothing to do, it _must_ be blocked waiting for something, such as an event, a timer, whatever it cares about, nothing else. Actually we want apps to do that also and especially when they are in foreground as well. Background is no special case. Would you be happy if your foregrounded app would run and drain the battery while it's doing nothing and waiting for you to press a button? That wouldn't really be caught by sending SIGSUSP when backgrounding. Have you ever wondered how come your typical GHz PC can have performance sometimes comparable with an internet tablet? -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On 8/16/07, Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 16:51 +0100, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: Given the importance of this to battery life, it would be cool if apps were sent SIGSUSP when they were minimized or some the user stopped interacting with them. If an application (e.g. media player) wanted to override this behaviour, they could do so in their .desktop file, .service file or osso_initialize() call. No. Apps that do useless stuff are buggy and the bugs must be fixed. Battery life eating is a particularly tricky bug to nail down to a single application (or home applet). You are proposing a shortcut that is encouraging crappy code to be written, since the system will always take care of saying: psst, pretend to be a properly written piece of code. Yes, I am. On the basis that this is a) easier and b) more likely than getting end-user tools to properly diagnose which applications aren't well behaved. Would you be happy if your foregrounded app would run and drain the battery while it's doing nothing and waiting for you to press a button? No, which is why I uninstalled Maemochron PDQ. Have you ever wondered how come your typical GHz PC can have performance sometimes comparable with an internet tablet? No, I haven't wondered. I'm a software engineer: I understand the issues, I just live in the real world of half-arsed Maemo ports and believe it should be as easy as possible to do these properly. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On 16/08/07, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, ext Michael Thompson wrote: IIRC, one of the Nokia engineers stated that apps are basically stopped (like hitting Ctrl+Z in bash) when they are minimized, and resumed when they're foregrounded. I might have made this up, but based on the CPU monitor it certainly would appear that something like that is going on. snip This might be true in some cases, but for instance Cannola will continue to play music when minimised, so I'm sure there are plenty of cases where this isn't true Applications should stop all visual activity and updates when they are not visible. This is voluntarily, as it naturally depends on the actual use-case e.g. all Nokia apps do this except for media player and iradio applet which play music also backgrounded. If you notice that some 3rd party app has activity although you're not using it and/or it's not visible nor there's no other good reason for it to be active, file a bug against it. Fair enough. What I've noticed so far is that claws, for instance, sits in a poll loop and reacts to any key press, whether it's the active window or not, i.e. minimizing the keyboard in xterm. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
How do we know what the actual current consumption is? Does the hardware know what current is being consumed from the battery (and can that info be exposed in/proc or the battery applett) or is the battery app guessing based on the battery voltage? I do think it would be interesting to see some more of the internals of the battery meter, etc. I've certainly noticed that when rebooting my N800 while it's showing 2 or 3 bars on the battery applet, it will come back up and settle at one bar. Is this because it's lost its previous state data. I.e. is past usage used to predict the amount of available time left (or is it only the current current draw and booting has skewed it)? How does this affect the bars shown on the battery meter? I'd also be interested to know how the Nokia battery performance erodes, and whether this is taken into account when predicting battery life and bars on the applet. I know the Sharp Zaurus used to leave the reported battery output (from the kernel) at 100% for an awfully long time, presumably so that users didn't wonder why their old and tired battery had dropped off 20% as soon as they unplugged it from the charger. Presumably Nokia do something similar. It would be interesting to know (and I doubt it is really such confidential information that it couldn't be obtained by someone with a decent measurement rig and an N800/770 plugged into it). Cheers, Simon ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 17:41 +0100, ext Michael Thompson wrote: On 16/08/07, Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 17:17 +0100, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On 8/16/07, Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 16:51 +0100, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: snip Battery life eating is a particularly tricky bug to nail down to a single application (or home applet). That's why users shouldn't try a bunch of new apps in one go. Maybe some way to easily share information about battery life would be useful on maemo.org ... Quim: what do you think about extending the rating of applications so that they could cover several aspects, including but not only battery usage? How do we know if an application has good power usage. How do we know what the actual current consumption is? Does the hardware know what current is being consumed from the battery (and can that info be exposed in/proc or the battery applett) or is the battery app guessing based on the battery voltage? There is ongoing work to provide users with graphical information about current consumption. The idea is that when you want to measure an application, you can first do a sort of calibration with a clean system in the state you are interested (i.e. wlan on or off), then install the application to be tested and run gain the measurement. You are proposing a shortcut that is encouraging crappy code to be written, since the system will always take care of saying: psst, pretend to be a properly written piece of code. Yes, I am. On the basis that this is a) easier and b) more likely than getting end-user tools to properly diagnose which applications aren't well behaved. That's not true. Proper tools don't need that. As Eero has already described, it's possible to use existing stats from the system. I'm not sure that strace'ing is very ideal No, but some users and most developers could use it. Powertop is not using such hacks and it works. Users have started complaining with dfevelopers and developers themselves have taken powerto in use. Can we run powertop or equivalent on the N800/Maemo? I'll let Eero answer this. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
[maemo-users] IT2006 and Battery life...
Hi all, Since I upgraded to OS2006, something strange happens: I fully charge the battery, use it for a little while (maybe 30 minutes) in normal mode (mostly installing new apps and updating installed ones), then turn the device of.After not using it for a day or two - the device won't turn on and the battery needs to be fully re-charged Any one knows why? Thanks!-- ::.Amichai RotmanUIN#: 6401746Registered Linux User#: 201192 [http://counter.li.org/] PLEASE READ: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html --- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
