Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
According to James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Saturday 27 October 2007 11:09:39 Steve Greenland wrote: > > According to Peter Flynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. > > > > File system mount thing. > > > > > > Ah. But presumably you can > > > $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/ > > > (it certainly worked on the Zaurus). > > > > You can link, but if the card is mounted with the noexec option, it > > doesn't matter. The good news is that a simple > > > > mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc1 > > > > (as root) should fix it. Automating that I leave as an excercise for the > > reader (translateion: I don't know). > > > > Steve > > edit fstab and remove the word noexec. Ummm, maybe not. My fstab has this entry: /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 vfat rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,utf8,uid=2 0 0 But no entry for mmc2. OTOH, my /proc/mounts (which should show the actual mounted "disks") has: /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc2 vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,uid=2,fmask=0022,dmask=,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8 0 0 /dev/mmcblk1p1 /media/mmc1 vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,uid=2,fmask=0022,dmask=,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8 0 0 Note that the device names are switched compared to fstab. For devices that are automounted via udev (which is what I assume is happening with the memory cards), I'm not sure that fstab has any influence. I'd guess that the way to control this involves one of the udev config files, but poking around in /etc/udev didn't lead to any obvious candidates. Steve, not a udev expert. -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
On Sunday 28 October 2007 05:52:24 Peter Flynn wrote: > James Sparenberg wrote: > [me] > > >> filetree: texmf > >> default-install-location: /usr/share > >> alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share > >> alternate-install-location: /mnt/* > >> alternate-install-location: /media/* > >> > >> (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating > >> a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large > >> data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable. > > > > But allowing files all over the place violates the FHS. > > Sure...so do it with a soft link /media/whatever/texmf /usr/share/texmf > It's not important *how* it's done, merely to provide for its doing. > Otherwise it makes the package more hardware-dependent than it need be. > What makes the package HW dependent is the arch it's compiled for. (unless it's a driver) Not the location of the install. That's why the FHS. all *nix's have nearly the same file structure. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
I hope we get past the deb installations soon and would encourage every developer to use the repositories and one-click methods so the users can more easily manage applications and more importantly updates. The New OS 2008 will backup your repositories and make it easier to restore applications on a flash. If they are not listed users will once again have to remember and hunt down what they were using. On 10/28/07, Peter Flynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > James Sparenberg wrote: > [me] > >> filetree: texmf > >> default-install-location: /usr/share > >> alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share > >> alternate-install-location: /mnt/* > >> alternate-install-location: /media/* > >> > >> (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating > >> a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large > >> data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable. > > > > But allowing files all over the place violates the FHS. > > Sure...so do it with a soft link /media/whatever/texmf /usr/share/texmf > It's not important *how* it's done, merely to provide for its doing. > Otherwise it makes the package more hardware-dependent than it need be. > > ///Peter > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users > -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
James Sparenberg wrote: [me] >> filetree: texmf >> default-install-location: /usr/share >> alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share >> alternate-install-location: /mnt/* >> alternate-install-location: /media/* >> >> (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating >> a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large >> data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable. > > But allowing files all over the place violates the FHS. Sure...so do it with a soft link /media/whatever/texmf /usr/share/texmf It's not important *how* it's done, merely to provide for its doing. Otherwise it makes the package more hardware-dependent than it need be. ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
On Sunday 28 October 2007 02:12:19 James Sparenberg wrote: > On Saturday 27 October 2007 06:58:19 Peter Flynn wrote: > > James Sparenberg wrote: > > [alternate install location] > > > > > No easy method no. On the other hand one of the first things a deb > > > installer does is check to see if it can install. (meaning it has > > > enough space) and then bomb out if it doesn't. > > > > That'll do nicely. > > > > > I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation > > > (also involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.) but no > > > easy way I know of. > > > > That's not a problem. I'm accustomed to passing dead chickens over the > > keyboard, and I know the "right" directory structure (TDS) and where to > > put it. > > Then look into google and methods for cracking open a deb. It's pretty > straight forward BUT you loss all install scripts. > > > > Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved intentionally > > > pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for the > > > greatest number of users. Those of us who dare try the chicken bone > > > ritual are on our own. > > > > Absolutely. It's the one area where the otherwise intolerable Windows > > installation nov^H^H^Hwizards score: they *ask* where you want it put, > > which is precisely what most Unix users *don't* want to have to bother > > with. The problem only really arises on systems with very restricted > > internal (/usr/share, /usr/local) space (PDAs) but with potentially > > large volumes off to one side like /media. Perhaps it's time to suggest > > that .debs could provide installation parameters like > > > > filetree: texmf > > default-install-location: /usr/share > > alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share > > alternate-install-location: /mnt/* > > alternate-install-location: /media/* > > > > (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating > > a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large > > data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable. > > But allowing files all over the place violates the FHS. and there is the > nasty little problem of removal. Even in windows land if you put it in > the "wrong" place you pay a removal tax. Linux doesn't (unless you a a > gnomey) have a registry ... (thank god) and so when we remove things they > are really gone not just removing a letter in a file name. > > The other option is to not use debs. Build it from source and tarball it > over. then you get it where you want. (I do ti all the time. on my > laptop.) > > > > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. > > > File system mount thing. > > > > Ah. But presumably you can > > $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/ > > (it certainly worked on the Zaurus). > > Hence the word default It was meant as a heads up. By defautl the > dosFS is mounted ro not rw. > > And I'm tired that should have been noexec not exec. They are mounted rw *sigh* Sorry for the error there. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
On Saturday 27 October 2007 11:09:39 Steve Greenland wrote: > According to Peter Flynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. > > > File system mount thing. > > > > Ah. But presumably you can > > $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/ > > (it certainly worked on the Zaurus). > > You can link, but if the card is mounted with the noexec option, it > doesn't matter. The good news is that a simple > > mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc1 > > (as root) should fix it. Automating that I leave as an excercise for the > reader (translateion: I don't know). > > Steve edit fstab and remove the word noexec. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
On Saturday 27 October 2007 06:58:19 Peter Flynn wrote: > James Sparenberg wrote: > [alternate install location] > > > No easy method no. On the other hand one of the first things a deb > > installer does is check to see if it can install. (meaning it has > > enough space) and then bomb out if it doesn't. > > That'll do nicely. > > > I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation > > (also involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.) but no > > easy way I know of. > > That's not a problem. I'm accustomed to passing dead chickens over the > keyboard, and I know the "right" directory structure (TDS) and where to > put it. Then look into google and methods for cracking open a deb. It's pretty straight forward BUT you loss all install scripts. > > > Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved intentionally > > pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for the > > greatest number of users. Those of us who dare try the chicken bone > > ritual are on our own. > > Absolutely. It's the one area where the otherwise intolerable Windows > installation nov^H^H^Hwizards score: they *ask* where you want it put, > which is precisely what most Unix users *don't* want to have to bother > with. The problem only really arises on systems with very restricted > internal (/usr/share, /usr/local) space (PDAs) but with potentially > large volumes off to one side like /media. Perhaps it's time to suggest > that .debs could provide installation parameters like > > filetree: texmf > default-install-location: /usr/share > alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share > alternate-install-location: /mnt/* > alternate-install-location: /media/* > > (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating > a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large > data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable. But allowing files all over the place violates the FHS. and there is the nasty little problem of removal. Even in windows land if you put it in the "wrong" place you pay a removal tax. Linux doesn't (unless you a a gnomey) have a registry ... (thank god) and so when we remove things they are really gone not just removing a letter in a file name. The other option is to not use debs. Build it from source and tarball it over. then you get it where you want. (I do ti all the time. on my laptop.) > > > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. > > File system mount thing. > > Ah. But presumably you can > $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/ > (it certainly worked on the Zaurus). > Hence the word default It was meant as a heads up. By defautl the dosFS is mounted ro not rw. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
According to Peter Flynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. > > File > > system mount thing. > > Ah. But presumably you can > $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/ > (it certainly worked on the Zaurus). You can link, but if the card is mounted with the noexec option, it doesn't matter. The good news is that a simple mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc1 (as root) should fix it. Automating that I leave as an excercise for the reader (translateion: I don't know). Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
>> oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default >> either. File system mount thing. > Ah. But presumably you can > $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/ > (it certainly worked on the Zaurus). I think it won't work. But this works for sure: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Boot_From_MMC_card -- Antonio ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
As a coincidence, this subject (limited storage space on tablets and apps installation methods) is one we're touching in a thread on the maemo-developers list, especially in this message posted this morning (by me) with regards to the limited storage space issue: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-October/012292.html -- Antonio > The problem only really arises on systems with very restricted > internal (/usr/share, /usr/local) space (PDAs) but with potentially > large volumes off to one side like /media. Perhaps it's time to suggest > that .debs could provide installation parameters like ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
James Sparenberg wrote: [alternate install location] > No easy method no. On the other hand one of the first things a deb > installer does is check to see if it can install. (meaning it has > enough space) and then bomb out if it doesn't. That'll do nicely. > I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation > (also involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.) but no > easy way I know of. That's not a problem. I'm accustomed to passing dead chickens over the keyboard, and I know the "right" directory structure (TDS) and where to put it. > Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved intentionally > pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for the > greatest number of users. Those of us who dare try the chicken bone > ritual are on our own. Absolutely. It's the one area where the otherwise intolerable Windows installation nov^H^H^Hwizards score: they *ask* where you want it put, which is precisely what most Unix users *don't* want to have to bother with. The problem only really arises on systems with very restricted internal (/usr/share, /usr/local) space (PDAs) but with potentially large volumes off to one side like /media. Perhaps it's time to suggest that .debs could provide installation parameters like filetree: texmf default-install-location: /usr/share alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share alternate-install-location: /mnt/* alternate-install-location: /media/* (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable. > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. File > system mount thing. Ah. But presumably you can $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/ (it certainly worked on the Zaurus). ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
On Friday 26 October 2007 17:37:24 James Sparenberg wrote: > On Friday 26 October 2007 17:12:26 Peter Flynn wrote: > > Thanks Jonathan and James for pointing out Application manager to do > > this (far too easy for my tortured mind :-) > > > > It's always surprising and pleased to find that someone has taken the > > trouble to include this kind of functionality in an application. > > > > Any thoughts on how to force a large .deb to use a different directory > > for installing its files? I don't want to start installing it only to > > find it doesn't allow the install directory to be changed, and then just > > goes ahead and hangs the system because it's used up all available disk > > space in / > > > > ///Peter > > No easy method no. On the other hand one of the first things a deb > installer does is check to see if it can install. (meaning it has enough > space) and then bomb out if it doesn't. > > I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation (also > involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.) but no easy way I > know of. Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved > intentionally pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for > the greatest number of users. Those of us who dare try the chicken bone > ritual are on our own. > > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. > File system mount thing. > > James > That should have been "No easy method I know of, no" sorry forget to typ ALL the words. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
On Friday 26 October 2007 17:12:26 Peter Flynn wrote: > Thanks Jonathan and James for pointing out Application manager to do > this (far too easy for my tortured mind :-) > > It's always surprising and pleased to find that someone has taken the > trouble to include this kind of functionality in an application. > > Any thoughts on how to force a large .deb to use a different directory > for installing its files? I don't want to start installing it only to > find it doesn't allow the install directory to be changed, and then just > goes ahead and hangs the system because it's used up all available disk > space in / > > ///Peter No easy method no. On the other hand one of the first things a deb installer does is check to see if it can install. (meaning it has enough space) and then bomb out if it doesn't. I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation (also involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.) but no easy way I know of. Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved intentionally pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for the greatest number of users. Those of us who dare try the chicken bone ritual are on our own. oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. File system mount thing. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
Thanks Jonathan and James for pointing out Application manager to do this (far too easy for my tortured mind :-) It's always surprising and pleased to find that someone has taken the trouble to include this kind of functionality in an application. Any thoughts on how to force a large .deb to use a different directory for installing its files? I don't want to start installing it only to find it doesn't allow the install directory to be changed, and then just goes ahead and hangs the system because it's used up all available disk space in / ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Installing apps when there's no installer
On Friday 26 October 2007 15:39:40 Peter Flynn wrote: > A large number of the apps listed at http://maemo.org/downloads have a > greyed out button labelled "missing install". The link to these apps' > homepages eventually takes you to the downloads, including a .deb, but > I'm not an apt-get expert: how do I make it install from a .deb that > I've already downloaded, without using a repository? The apt-get man > page is silent on this. > > For very large apps, eg MaemoTeX, I will want to ensure that it goes > onto my external SD card (rather than wherever it thinks it ought to > go), and then soft-link the binaries to /usr/local/bin. Is there a way > to override the default install paths, or will I need to unzip the .deb > and do it manually? > > ///Peter > Peter, open your Application manager then click on the words "Application Manager" at the top of the screen, or press the "menu" key on the IT. This willl open a menu where you click "Application" and "Install from file" This will allow you to navigate to where you saved the .deb and install it. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Installing apps when there's no installer
A large number of the apps listed at http://maemo.org/downloads have a greyed out button labelled "missing install". The link to these apps' homepages eventually takes you to the downloads, including a .deb, but I'm not an apt-get expert: how do I make it install from a .deb that I've already downloaded, without using a repository? The apt-get man page is silent on this. For very large apps, eg MaemoTeX, I will want to ensure that it goes onto my external SD card (rather than wherever it thinks it ought to go), and then soft-link the binaries to /usr/local/bin. Is there a way to override the default install paths, or will I need to unzip the .deb and do it manually? ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
