Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Gary]

Putting in an 802.16e compatible chipset makes the
most sense for the tablet's target market. What the original poster is
arguing for is that Nokia should be using the maemo platform as a smart
phone platform a la Android, the stripped down ARM port of OS X used in
the iPhone, Symbian, etc. It would also be equivalent to suggesting net
book manufacturers ought to start adding phone capabilities to their OS
and hardware. I'm happy with tethering since it doesn't require
upgrading my tablet hardware every time I want to upgrade my phone or
switch providers.

-Gary
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Jonathan Greene]

I'm definitely in the minority in looking to have multiple things rather
than a single device which would do it all.  there are routers you can buy
(MiFi - http://jkontherun.com/2008/12/09/novatel-mifi-c/) though I want the
radio in the unit.  Depending on the second device for connectivity just
drains two batteries

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:53 AM, John Holmblad <
jholmb...@acadiasecurenets.com> wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> in fact, given the ease with which the N800N810 can be tethered to an EVDO
> or HSDPA capable mobile handset, my own biggest complaint has been with my
> electron "guzzling" mobile phone which lasts all of ~20 minutes when running
> with the EVDO turned on and tethered to the N810.
>
> Clearly it would be better to carry only one piece of electronics vs two
> but, if I can solve this power consumption problem by upgrading to a new
> mobile handset I will be satisfied with a 2 device solution.
>
> Maybe there is a market for a fairly simple  layer 1 pocket device
> (evdo/hsdpa/LTE/WIMAX modem + a big battery) that also supports bluetooth
> for tethering to whatever smart device the user has on hand.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> John Holmblad
>
>
>
> Acadia Secure Networks, LLC
>
> * *
>
>
>
> Jonathan Greene wrote:
>
>> There's certainly been debate on the topic as some people prefer the
>> option rather than being forced to have it but I would love it.  An
>> always-on pocket computer is exactly what I want ... and have wanted for a
>> long time.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:13 PM, fcassia > fcas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 /
>>N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested.
>>
>>So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All
>>that is needed is a phone dialer applet.
>>
>>Of course, a "premium" version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail
>>on the go, EDGE is just fine.
>>
>>Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?
>>FC
>>___
>>maemo-users mailing list
>>maemo-users@maemo.org 
>>https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Greene
>> +1.914.750.8740
>> AIM / iChat - atmasphere
>> gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com > jonathangre...@gmail.com>
>> Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene
>> blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp  / http://www.maemoapps.com
>> 
>>
>> ___
>> maemo-users mailing list
>> maemo-users@maemo.org
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>>
>>
>


-- 
Jonathan Greene
+1.914.750.8740
AIM / iChat - atmasphere
gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com
Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene
blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp  / http://www.maemoapps.com
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Matt Emson]

Marius Gedminas wrote:
> 3G is UMTS (or WCDMA); HSDPA is sometimes called 3.5G.
>   
In the UK,  O2 only use HSDPA for their "3G" service, apparently. When 
you buy an iPhone with them, they mumble about their 3G actually being 
rated faster than normal 3G and make excuses about the naming convention 
being tied to the iPhone not having a different icon for HSDPA.. It's 
fast though. Very fast.
> When I heard that 3G uses different frequencies in different countries,
> and that not all 3G phones support all frequencies, I was rather
> disappointed.
>   
This has nothing to do with the phones or manufacturers. Countries 
assign different parts of the spectrum to different uses. You can't 
dictate to the world that a specific frequency is "universal", because 
*someone* will be using it *somewhere*.
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Jonathan Greene]

response below ...

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Marius Gedminas  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 07:38:47AM -0200, fcassia wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Matt Emson 
> wrote:
> > > John Holmblad wrote:
> > >> Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX
> > >> version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason
> why
> > >> there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or
> > >> CDMA/EVDO) as well.
> > >>
> > > I suspect it would be GSM/HSDPA based, as this is what we use in
> Europe.
> > > I'm not even sure if any carriers in the UK support EVDO? Probably, but
> > > no one talks about it.
> >
> > I can only speak about LatAm. Down here in Argentina, all carriers
> > switched to GSM long ago. There's no one still selling CDMA based
> > networks.
> >
> > 3G afaik is HSDPA in the 1900 Mhz band.
>
> 3G is UMTS (or WCDMA); HSDPA is sometimes called 3.5G.
>
> When I heard that 3G uses different frequencies in different countries,
> and that not all 3G phones support all frequencies, I was rather
> disappointed.
>
> Marius Gedminas
>
>
Unfortunately the bands supported is a country thing more than a
manufacturer and it's how the FCC equivalent decides to offer spectrum.  I
believe the reason the US does not have 2100 band open to public
communications is due to some government / military issue.


-- 
Jonathan Greene
+1.914.750.8740
AIM / iChat - atmasphere
gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com
Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene
blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp  / http://www.maemoapps.com
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Marius Gedminas]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 07:38:47AM -0200, fcassia wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Matt Emson  wrote:
> > John Holmblad wrote:
> >> Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX
> >> version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why
> >> there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or
> >> CDMA/EVDO) as well.
> >>
> > I suspect it would be GSM/HSDPA based, as this is what we use in Europe.
> > I'm not even sure if any carriers in the UK support EVDO? Probably, but
> > no one talks about it.
> 
> I can only speak about LatAm. Down here in Argentina, all carriers
> switched to GSM long ago. There's no one still selling CDMA based
> networks.
> 
> 3G afaik is HSDPA in the 1900 Mhz band.

3G is UMTS (or WCDMA); HSDPA is sometimes called 3.5G.

When I heard that 3G uses different frequencies in different countries,
and that not all 3G phones support all frequencies, I was rather
disappointed.

Marius Gedminas
-- 
If something has not yet gone wrong then it would ultimately have been
beneficial for it to go wrong.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[John Holmblad]

Jonathan,

in fact, given the ease with which the N800N810 can be tethered to an 
EVDO or HSDPA capable mobile handset, my own biggest complaint has been 
with my electron "guzzling" mobile phone which lasts all of ~20 minutes 
when running with the EVDO turned on and tethered to the N810.

Clearly it would be better to carry only one piece of electronics vs two 
but, if I can solve this power consumption problem by upgrading to a new 
mobile handset I will be satisfied with a 2 device solution.

Maybe there is a market for a fairly simple  layer 1 pocket device 
(evdo/hsdpa/LTE/WIMAX modem + a big battery) that also supports 
bluetooth for tethering to whatever smart device the user has on hand.


Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Acadia Secure Networks, LLC

* *



Jonathan Greene wrote:
> There's certainly been debate on the topic as some people prefer the 
> option rather than being forced to have it but I would love it.  An 
> always-on pocket computer is exactly what I want ... and have wanted 
> for a long time.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:13 PM, fcassia  > wrote:
>
> I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 /
> N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested.
>
> So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All
> that is needed is a phone dialer applet.
>
> Of course, a "premium" version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail
> on the go, EDGE is just fine.
>
> Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?
> FC
> ___
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users@maemo.org 
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Jonathan Greene
> +1.914.750.8740
> AIM / iChat - atmasphere
> gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com 
> 
> Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene
> blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp  / http://www.maemoapps.com
> 
>
> ___
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>   
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[fcassia]

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Brad Midgley  wrote:

> Nokia has several operating systems, product lines, feature sets, etc.
> One unfortunate explanation might simply be that the the maemo project
> was told they could not tread on the turf of another unit at Nokia.

In my experience watching multinationals for over a decade, I can
assume this is likely the case.

I have watched internal politics and turf wars kill too many products
at IBM, Sun, and others

FC
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[fcassia]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Matt Emson  wrote:
> John Holmblad wrote:
>> Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX
>> version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why
>> there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or
>> CDMA/EVDO) as well.
>>
> I suspect it would be GSM/HSDPA based, as this is what we use in Europe.
> I'm not even sure if any carriers in the UK support EVDO? Probably, but
> no one talks about it.

I can only speak about LatAm. Down here in Argentina, all carriers
switched to GSM long ago. There's no one still selling CDMA based
networks.

3G afaik is HSDPA in the 1900 Mhz band.
FC
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Matt Emson]

John Holmblad wrote:
> Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX 
> version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why 
> there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or 
> CDMA/EVDO) as well.
>   
I suspect it would be GSM/HSDPA based, as this is what we use in Europe. 
I'm not even sure if any carriers in the UK support EVDO? Probably, but 
no one talks about it.

M
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Brad Midgley]

One more aside... as far as I could tell, Nokia was only showing off
symbian devices at their CES booth.
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Brad Midgley]

FC

> So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All
> that is needed is a phone dialer applet.
>
> Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?

It's often suggested it would be too costly or logistically difficult,
but there are smaller companies that are at least trying something
similar. There were a few atom-based machines being shown off at CES
that will ship with 3g. One looked just like a fat n810 only with some
terrible in-house OS. Nokia should be equipped to deal with logistics
better than little fly-by-night operations like that.

Nokia has several operating systems, product lines, feature sets, etc.
One unfortunate explanation might simply be that the the maemo project
was told they could not tread on the turf of another unit at Nokia.

One real complication is some of the 3g networks in the US ostensibly
don't allow VOIP on their network. For Nokia to remain on good terms
with providers it probably isn't in their interest to make it easy to
break the terms of service of your network provider.

There was a booth for the Clear venture at CES. They had an impressive
map showing near-complete coverage of the US. Closer inspection shows
they were demonstrating coverage areas of the partners in Clear,
including any network type. An actual WiMAX coverage map would have
looked pretty dismal.

-- 
Brad Midgley
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[John Holmblad]

Wayne,

thanks for reminding me of a word, "homologation", that I have not used 
for a long time.  Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX 
version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why 
there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or 
CDMA/EVDO) as well.

I am disappointed that Clear (the Sprint/Clearwire/Others WIMAX venture) 
appears to be slowing down its US rollout strategy for its WIMAX based 
service offering. I was hoping that the Nokia N810 WIMAX edition could 
find a place in this market as a multiuse (voice + data device) before 
the arrival of LTE based 4g solutions from Verizon Wireless and others.

Intel's  write-down of its 1b+ investment in Clear. announced this week, 
driven by macroeconomic market conditions (everything is down), as 
opposed to diminished expectations of the Intel management team for 
future returns from Clear, does not help market perceptions of WIMAX and 
associated products and services.


1. 
http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=170164&f_src=unstrung_section_86



Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Acadia Secure Networks, LLC

* *




Wayne Fiori wrote:
> It would make the device far too expensive for its market. The cogs on
> the radio device would add to the base cost. There would be different
> European and American model -- each market uses different frequencies
> for GSM/EDGE. That homologation for manufacturing would add additional
> costs. The repair depot logistics would change as well. There would be
> real FCC (and the equivalents) regulatory requirements to be met.
> Worse, you would need to purchase service from a mobile phone
> provider.
>
> At that point the cost increases would push customers to an iPhone or
> similar smart phone.
>
> IMO, the best advantage that the tablets have is being free of the
> entanglement mobile phone service providers.
> --
> =W
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:13 PM, fcassia  wrote:
>   
>> I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 /
>> N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested.
>>
>> So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All
>> that is needed is a phone dialer applet.
>>
>> Of course, a "premium" version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail
>> on the go, EDGE is just fine.
>>
>> Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?
>> FC
>> ___
>> maemo-users mailing list
>> maemo-users@maemo.org
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>>
>> 
> ___
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
>
>   
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Brad Ackerman]

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:23:04PM -0800, Wayne Fiori wrote:
> It would make the device far too expensive for its market. The cogs on
> the radio device would add to the base cost. There would be different
> European and American model -- each market uses different frequencies
> for GSM/EDGE. 

I suppose you could probably find a chipset that doesn't do all four GSM
frequency bands, but that would be silly.  For some reason, five-band
WCDMA doesn't seem to be as common as it should be, but 850/1900/2100
is common enough.  Leaves T-Mobile US out in the cold, but their fault
for picking a weird place to put their UMTS.

-- 
Brad Ackerman
b...@facefault.org
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Erik Hovland]

> Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?

W/ bluetooth tethering and the WiMax addition, it is obvious to me that
Nokia is attempting to get there. And by there - an always connected
web tablet. The next device will likely have the space for 3G.

The thing to recognize is that at least in the US, it is a lot harder then just
being 3G enabled. The strangle hold that the carriers have on the
network adds to the problem. Look at the WiMax rollout, only two cities
really have service. So the N810 WiMax edition is pretty much exactly
the same as the N810.

E

-- 
Erik Hovland
e...@hovland.org
http://hovland.org/
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Jonathan Greene]

well - Nokia is definitely starting to roll out tri-band hsdpa devices which
makes this much easier to deal with.  I'm still excited by the idea of a 3G
capable tablet.

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Wayne Fiori  wrote:

> It would make the device far too expensive for its market. The cogs on
> the radio device would add to the base cost. There would be different
> European and American model -- each market uses different frequencies
> for GSM/EDGE. That homologation for manufacturing would add additional
> costs. The repair depot logistics would change as well. There would be
> real FCC (and the equivalents) regulatory requirements to be met.
> Worse, you would need to purchase service from a mobile phone
> provider.
>
> At that point the cost increases would push customers to an iPhone or
> similar smart phone.
>
> IMO, the best advantage that the tablets have is being free of the
> entanglement mobile phone service providers.
> --
> =W
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:13 PM, fcassia  wrote:
> > I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 /
> > N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested.
> >
> > So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All
> > that is needed is a phone dialer applet.
> >
> > Of course, a "premium" version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail
> > on the go, EDGE is just fine.
> >
> > Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?
> > FC
> > ___
> > maemo-users mailing list
> > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
> >
> ___
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>



-- 
Jonathan Greene
+1.914.750.8740
AIM / iChat - atmasphere
gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com
Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene
blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp  / http://www.maemoapps.com
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Wayne Fiori]

It would make the device far too expensive for its market. The cogs on
the radio device would add to the base cost. There would be different
European and American model -- each market uses different frequencies
for GSM/EDGE. That homologation for manufacturing would add additional
costs. The repair depot logistics would change as well. There would be
real FCC (and the equivalents) regulatory requirements to be met.
Worse, you would need to purchase service from a mobile phone
provider.

At that point the cost increases would push customers to an iPhone or
similar smart phone.

IMO, the best advantage that the tablets have is being free of the
entanglement mobile phone service providers.
--
=W


On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:13 PM, fcassia  wrote:
> I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 /
> N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested.
>
> So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All
> that is needed is a phone dialer applet.
>
> Of course, a "premium" version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail
> on the go, EDGE is just fine.
>
> Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?
> FC
> ___
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

Re: N810 with GSM radio

[Jonathan Greene]

There's certainly been debate on the topic as some people prefer the option
rather than being forced to have it but I would love it.  An always-on
pocket computer is exactly what I want ... and have wanted for a long time.



On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:13 PM, fcassia  wrote:

> I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 /
> N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested.
>
> So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All
> that is needed is a phone dialer applet.
>
> Of course, a "premium" version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail
> on the go, EDGE is just fine.
>
> Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?
> FC
> ___
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>



-- 
Jonathan Greene
+1.914.750.8740
AIM / iChat - atmasphere
gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com
Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene
blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp  / http://www.maemoapps.com
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

N810 with GSM radio

[fcassia]

I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 /
N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested.

So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All
that is needed is a phone dialer applet.

Of course, a "premium" version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail
on the go, EDGE is just fine.

Thoughts? Comments? Expletives?
FC
___
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users