Re: N8xx ponderings

[hendrik]

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 02:41:25PM -0700, lakestevensdental wrote:
> hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 01:15:58PM -0700, lakestevensdental wrote:
> >   
> >> * W7 requires 4 partitions, leaving only 1 partition for a dual boot
> >>   to Ubuntu or other OS.  Ubuntu currently recommends an separate
> >>   partition for swap memory, but W7 isn't going to allow it.
> >> 
> >
> > Has the partitioning system changed?  I thought that we were limited to 
> > four primary partitions, leaving *no* partitions free for dual boot.  Or 
> > else one of them could be the extended partition, which can contain 
> > *lots* of secondary partitions.
> >   
> Possibly it's changed with 1T hds taking the market?   When I installed 
> Ubuntu after W7, there were 4 W7 partitions and one free for Ubuntu.  I 
> didn't really pay attention to whether the W7s were all primary 
> partitions or not.  I do know there were no additional primary 
> partitions left after installing Ubuntu, cutting a chunk out of the 
> largest W7 partition, at least according to the Ubuntu partitioner.
> 
>   I figured with 4Gs of RAM, the need for a swap partition for Ubuntu 
> was minimized, at least for now. 
> I'm going to overwrite W7 in a couple days, which should free up a 
> couple partitions.

Before you remove w7, just to be clear, could you go superuser in
ubuntu and fdisk -l the relevant drive?  That would probably tell us 
just what is going on with the mysterious extra partition.

>  If I've got a spare partition, I suppose I could 
> then go back and tweak Ubuntu to add a swap partition.  Or reinstall it 
> from scratch.  Having only installed Ubuntu a couple weeks ago,  I 
> haven't done much with Ubuntu other than browse around a bit and check 
> if it works with all of the devices I've attached to check against W7 
> beta's poor ability to recognize drivers and stuff.  Ubuntu 8.1 did just 
> fine finding everything -- no BS M$ W& driver $ignature enforcement. 

-- hendrik
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[lakestevensdental]

hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 01:15:58PM -0700, lakestevensdental wrote:
>   
>> * W7 requires 4 partitions, leaving only 1 partition for a dual boot
>>   to Ubuntu or other OS.  Ubuntu currently recommends an separate
>>   partition for swap memory, but W7 isn't going to allow it.
>> 
>
> Has the partitioning system changed?  I thought that we were limited to 
> four primary partitions, leaving *no* partitions free for dual boot.  Or 
> else one of them could be the extended partition, which can contain 
> *lots* of secondary partitions.
>   
Possibly it's changed with 1T hds taking the market?   When I installed 
Ubuntu after W7, there were 4 W7 partitions and one free for Ubuntu.  I 
didn't really pay attention to whether the W7s were all primary 
partitions or not.  I do know there were no additional primary 
partitions left after installing Ubuntu, cutting a chunk out of the 
largest W7 partition, at least according to the Ubuntu partitioner.

  I figured with 4Gs of RAM, the need for a swap partition for Ubuntu 
was minimized, at least for now. 
I'm going to overwrite W7 in a couple days, which should free up a 
couple partitions.  If I've got a spare partition, I suppose I could 
then go back and tweak Ubuntu to add a swap partition.  Or reinstall it 
from scratch.  Having only installed Ubuntu a couple weeks ago,  I 
haven't done much with Ubuntu other than browse around a bit and check 
if it works with all of the devices I've attached to check against W7 
beta's poor ability to recognize drivers and stuff.  Ubuntu 8.1 did just 
fine finding everything -- no BS M$ W& driver $ignature enforcement. 

  FYI, on another thread drift -- when I run W7s performance checker, 
the slowest part of the two new boxes I installed are the hard drives.   
One came out as a 5.5, the other as a 3.0.  Both SATAs supposedly have 
similar specs.  It's possible the problem could be related to W7 SATA 
driver BS, since I wasn't able to load the Shuttle Vista MB drivers from 
the Shuttle MB CD.  Which also prevented me from accessing the LAN port 
to look for updates.

  Fed up with W7 on my brand new Shuttle, I overwrote W7 with XPPro with 
PC_BSD installed as intermediate step to check device operations in case 
MS fooled around with me in XPPro.  BSD's partition manager also allowed 
me to wipe out the four W7 partitions.  Both XPPro and BSD installed and 
worked fine.  

 S
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Mark]

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Matt Emson  wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM, kenneth marken 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> i wish i could point you to the law text, but sadly its only in
>>> norwegian...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> To quote Dickens, "the law is an ass".
>
> Remember that Dickens was English and in British English, "Ass" is a kind of
> Donkey, where as "arse" is you "back-side", posteria, butt or whatever you
> want to call it. An Ass is a stubborn animal, which is what he was alluding
> to. (i.e. what Dickens said doesn't mean the same as the modern US English
> reading of that statement...)
>

I knew that, but it's pretty much irrelevant as to the meaning of the
statement. The point is that the law has little to do with morality or
justice.

Mark
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Matt Emson]

Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>   
>> i wish i could point you to the law text, but sadly its only in norwegian...
>>
>> 
>
> To quote Dickens, "the law is an ass". 
Remember that Dickens was English and in British English, "Ass" is a 
kind of Donkey, where as "arse" is you "back-side", posteria, butt or 
whatever you want to call it. An Ass is a stubborn animal, which is what 
he was alluding to. (i.e. what Dickens said doesn't mean the same as the 
modern US English reading of that statement...)
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[hendrik]

On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 01:15:58PM -0700, lakestevensdental wrote:
> 
> * W7 requires 4 partitions, leaving only 1 partition for a dual boot
>   to Ubuntu or other OS.  Ubuntu currently recommends an separate
>   partition for swap memory, but W7 isn't going to allow it.

Has the partitioning system changed?  I thought that we were limited to 
four primary partitions, leaving *no* partitions free for dual boot.  Or 
else one of them could be the extended partition, which can contain 
*lots* of secondary partitions.

-- hendrik
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Mark]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>
> i wish i could point you to the law text, but sadly its only in norwegian...
>

To quote Dickens, "the law is an ass". I consider ethics to be
stronger than law. In other words, there are plenty of things that are
legal but morally reprehensible, as well as many things that are
illegal for no defensible reason.

Also, law is not static. Frequently laws change one way or the other
once the pressure reaches critical mass. When too many people take
unreasonable advantage of a situation, the situation changes.

Mark
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 3:04 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>> Mark wrote:
>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM, kenneth marken 
>>> wrote:
 more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is,
 if it was not bought with XP in the first place...
>>> Yeah, good luck with that. None of the stores I know would take back
>>> that kind of a product for such a lame excuse. You might be able to
>>> exchange for the same thing if there's a real defect, but getting a
>>> refund on a computer because you don't like like the OS - about which
>>> you knew *before* you bought it - is not going to fly. These days they
>>> have a tendency to check returned products to verify their condition,
>>> so I wouldn't advise anyone to try this.
>>>
>>> Frankly, a person would have to be a real jerk to try it.
>>>
>> or maybe depend on where in the world one lives...
>>
> 
> No, if you try to return a product because you're an idiot, you're a
> jerk regardless of where you live. It's losers like that that ruin
> things for the rest of us who only return things for solid reasons and
> often can't because the generous stores get tired of being ripped off
> and end up making their policies too strict.
> 
> If there's nothing wrong with a product but it has been opened/used,
> the store can't (and shouldn't be allowed to) sell it as new. That
> means that if they take it back they *will* lose money on it. Only if
> it's actually defective (and not deliberately vandalized by a
> shortsighted arrogant jerk) can they get full credit from the
> supplier/manufacturer. Sooner or later, the retailers who take back
> merchandise no questions asked either change their policies or go out
> of business because they can't make a profit.
> 
i wish i could point you to the law text, but sadly its only in norwegian...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Mark]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 3:04 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM, kenneth marken 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is,
>>> if it was not bought with XP in the first place...
>>
>> Yeah, good luck with that. None of the stores I know would take back
>> that kind of a product for such a lame excuse. You might be able to
>> exchange for the same thing if there's a real defect, but getting a
>> refund on a computer because you don't like like the OS - about which
>> you knew *before* you bought it - is not going to fly. These days they
>> have a tendency to check returned products to verify their condition,
>> so I wouldn't advise anyone to try this.
>>
>> Frankly, a person would have to be a real jerk to try it.
>>
> or maybe depend on where in the world one lives...
>

No, if you try to return a product because you're an idiot, you're a
jerk regardless of where you live. It's losers like that that ruin
things for the rest of us who only return things for solid reasons and
often can't because the generous stores get tired of being ripped off
and end up making their policies too strict.

If there's nothing wrong with a product but it has been opened/used,
the store can't (and shouldn't be allowed to) sell it as new. That
means that if they take it back they *will* lose money on it. Only if
it's actually defective (and not deliberately vandalized by a
shortsighted arrogant jerk) can they get full credit from the
supplier/manufacturer. Sooner or later, the retailers who take back
merchandise no questions asked either change their policies or go out
of business because they can't make a profit.

Mark
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>> more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is,
>> if it was not bought with XP in the first place...
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that. None of the stores I know would take back
> that kind of a product for such a lame excuse. You might be able to
> exchange for the same thing if there's a real defect, but getting a
> refund on a computer because you don't like like the OS - about which
> you knew *before* you bought it - is not going to fly. These days they
> have a tendency to check returned products to verify their condition,
> so I wouldn't advise anyone to try this.
> 
> Frankly, a person would have to be a real jerk to try it.
> 
or maybe depend on where in the world one lives...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[lakestevensdental]

John Holmblad wrote:
> Fred C,
>
> re your comment
>
>"...with more core memory."
>
> Where can I get some of that?
>
> The long boot time of windows XP, and, for that matter Vista, explains 
> why Microsoft is racing to get Windows 7 out the door to "fix" that 
> Achilles heel vs Linux. Microsoft are only too aware that today's 
> 10-18 year olds (the next generation, if you will, of corporate users) 
> will prefer what works first/fastest to reconnect them to their 
> connected world vs whose name is on the OS.
FYI, I've recently loaded W7 onto a couple new boxes to see how it would 
work.  After about a month, I'm not so sure W7 isn't going to be another 
Vista disaster. 

* Pro -- the boot time has been reduced.  This seems to be
  accomplished to a great extent by limiting the task bar to 3 MS
  chosen items.  There's all sorts of freeware out that that will
  let XP users cut out most of the startup junk that bogs down XP
  boot up. 
* Con -- Driver verification.  After installing W7 from a new
  blue-ray DVD, W7 discovered the BR-DVD isn't on it's current pay
  thru to nose to MS list of approved drivers -- so it doesn't
  recognize it when you boot up, unless you go thru the hassle of
  F8, and selecting ignore driver verification at W7 boot time.
  Ditto for various USB devices, motherboard drivers and the like.
* W7 wouldn't let me install my Shuttle Vista drivers, hence it
  wouldn't recognize the LAN, hence you can't get any direct
  support.  W7 is likely to be the same driver mess for endusers
  attempting to migrate from XP AND Vista to W7. 
* Caveat -- it's possible with a beta release that some of these
  driver restrictions are to limit hassles of managing all the
  devices that folks might want to connect to their computers before
  W7 is ready. If true, then MS is living in DaNile -- when W7 is
  released, it's going to be dumped on for being very unprepared to
  handle all the devices folks expect to work with W7.
* W7 requires 4 partitions, leaving only 1 partition for a dual boot
  to Ubuntu or other OS.  Ubuntu currently recommends an separate
  partition for swap memory, but W7 isn't going to allow it.
* W7 has all sorts of nice OS bloatware that I'm sure is intended to
  make things easy for novices. Stuff like self-testing your systems
  performance (mem, CPU, Disk access, graphics, etc) up to a scale
  of 8.  I suppose it's nice to see where your system performance is
  weak, but in the OS?  You can move the cursor over your task bar
  apps and it shows a small window of what that process is doing. 
  Cute -- but essential?  This sort of junk is probably enough to
  fill up 4Gs of extra memory...  Meanwhile, it won't recognize my
  blue-ray DVD... 

IMHO, W7 is not a slimmed down beefed up Vista, it's Vista in a girdle. 

IMHO, if I were in charge of W7 design, somewhere along the development 
process, I'd have put in some self monitoring system that would self 
delete from the core processes and apps that people don't use or need 
much, leaving this sort of bloatware something to be accessed from an 
online repository on final release.  I suspect that nLiting MS OS to 
eliminate MS bloatware is going to become an increasingly popular trend. 

Of the things the various Linux things have done right, including the 
tablet's 2008 OS,  is they generally have a decently tight core OS that 
users can build upon from online repos to fill their need. The problem 
is not all of the repo apps are made to the same reliability or 
usability standards as one might wish.  As anyone who uses MS junk might 
say -- "So what else is new"?

Always, Fred C

>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> John Holmblad
>
> **
>
>
> lakestevensdental wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
> one, and
> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as 
> cheap or
> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
> 
>> FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a 
>> couple easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible.
>> Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's 
>> relatively simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
>> ,
>>  
>> nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 
>> 600M speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a 
>> minute faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly 
>> impressive how well XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk 
>> you never use or need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G 
>> internal memory card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck 
>> with a whopping 128M...
>> FYI, I spend mor

Re: N8xx ponderings

[Mark]

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:57 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
> more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is,
> if it was not bought with XP in the first place...

Yeah, good luck with that. None of the stores I know would take back
that kind of a product for such a lame excuse. You might be able to
exchange for the same thing if there's a real defect, but getting a
refund on a computer because you don't like like the OS - about which
you knew *before* you bought it - is not going to fly. These days they
have a tendency to check returned products to verify their condition,
so I wouldn't advise anyone to try this.

Frankly, a person would have to be a real jerk to try it.

Mark
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

lakestevensdental wrote:
> kenneth marken wrote:
>> lakestevensdental wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken 
  wrote:
>> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
>> one, and
>> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as 
>> cheap or
>> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
>>> FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a 
>>> couple easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible.
>>> Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's 
>>> relatively simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
>>> ,
>>>  
>>> nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 
>>> 600M speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a 
>>> minute faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly 
>>> impressive how well XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk 
>>> you never use or need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G 
>>> internal memory card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck 
>>> with a whopping 128M...
>> fully aware of it, but does that info help a customer that may not 
>> even have restored the os of any previous computer without grabbing a 
>> nearby geek?
> 
> Easy Peasy really is easy to install.  No wizardry at all.
> 
> An XP netbook install isn't quite as simple, but the link above gets the 
> job done with only a few more clicks that Easy Peasy, especially if you 
> torrent an nLited XP for your install instead of nLiting yourself. 
> 
> Or buy a six pack of beer, bag of chips and salsa dip, locate some beer 
> guzzling geek to do the work for you over chips and beer while you watch 
> March Madness.  This stuff ain't rocket science. 
> 
more likely that said computer would be returned for a refund. that is, 
if it was not bought with XP in the first place...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[lakestevensdental]

kenneth marken wrote:
> lakestevensdental wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken 
>>>  wrote:
> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
> one, and
> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as 
> cheap or
> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
>> FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a 
>> couple easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible.
>> Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's 
>> relatively simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
>> ,
>>  
>> nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 
>> 600M speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a 
>> minute faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly 
>> impressive how well XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk 
>> you never use or need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G 
>> internal memory card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck 
>> with a whopping 128M...
> fully aware of it, but does that info help a customer that may not 
> even have restored the os of any previous computer without grabbing a 
> nearby geek?

Easy Peasy really is easy to install.  No wizardry at all.

An XP netbook install isn't quite as simple, but the link above gets the 
job done with only a few more clicks that Easy Peasy, especially if you 
torrent an nLited XP for your install instead of nLiting yourself. 

Or buy a six pack of beer, bag of chips and salsa dip, locate some beer 
guzzling geek to do the work for you over chips and beer while you watch 
March Madness.  This stuff ain't rocket science. 

Always, Fred C
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[James Knott]

John Holmblad wrote:
> Fred C,
>
> re your comment
>
> "...with more core memory."
>
> Where can I get some of that?
>
>   

I've got a 16K x 1 core memory plane from a Collins 8500B computer
here.  However, core memory tends to be very expensive, slow, power
hungry & bulky.  Not sure you want that in your Nokia.  ;-)


-- 
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[John Holmblad]

Fred C,

re your comment

"...with more core memory."

Where can I get some of that?

The long boot time of windows XP, and, for that matter Vista, explains 
why Microsoft is racing to get Windows 7 out the door to "fix" that 
Achilles heel vs Linux. Microsoft are only too aware that today's 10-18 
year olds (the next generation, if you will, of corporate users) will 
prefer what works first/fastest to reconnect them to their connected 
world vs whose name is on the OS.

This reboot lag time problem even extends to Windows Mobile. My 
experience is that when I have to boot my Windows Mobile handset it 
takes over 60 seconds whereas  my Nokia IT takes 30 seconds. Our 16 year 
old who texts beyond belief with an LG Voyager would not give a Windows 
Mobile handset the time of day.

Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 **


lakestevensdental wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken  
>> wrote:
>> 
 iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
 one, and
 the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as cheap or
 cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
 
> FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a couple 
> easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible. 
>
> Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's relatively 
> simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
> ,
>  
> nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 600M 
> speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a minute 
> faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly impressive how well 
> XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk you never use or 
> need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G internal memory 
> card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck with a whopping 128M... 
>
> FYI, I spend more time on my tablet than my netbook while poking around 
> RSS, simple mind games, email and web.  Netbooks require you to sit up 
> in bed, so I can't see retiring my tablet anytime soon. 
>
> I just wish the tablet hardware could be upgraded to higher speed 
> processing, with more core memory -- WITHOUT having to buy a new unit.  
> Who knows, perhaps an OS upgrade that allowed 256 or 512M of memory 
> would help.  Speed would seem likely to fix most of the browsing and 
> video limitations many have with the current n8xx tablets.   Faster 
> processing and larger memory might also enable actually recording decent 
> video with a tablet. 
>
> Always, Fred C
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>
>
>   
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[James Knott]

kenneth marken wrote:
> Ognen Duzlevski wrote:
>   
>>> the only company that has given linux a fair chance in all this is asus, 
>>> and they have the worst linux distro in use...
>>>   
>>>   
>> Luckily, Ubuntu runs on Eee.
>> 
>
> while true, people will give xandros a spin, find it a nightmare and 
> then return the whole eeepc for the windows version...
>
> that is, if they didnt get talked out of buying based on price in the 
> first place by the staff at the local store...
>   

I got the bottom end 2G Surf for free, from my bank.  The Xandros Linux
on it is a bit of a pain and one thing I discovered is it doesn't like
to have a space or semi-colon in a WPA key.  I investigated installing
another distro on it, but found that due to limited hardware resources,
it would be very difficult to do.  I guess it's OK for kids, which was
it's intended market.


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Re: N8xx ponderings

[hendrik]

On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 07:53:28PM -0500, hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:42:05PM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed one, 
> > > and
> > > the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as cheap or
> > > cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
> > 
> > March 1, 2009
> > 
> > Dell offers Ubuntu-loaded Mini 9 netbook for $199
> > http://www.cheaplaptops.org.uk/20090301/dell-offer-mini-9-netbook-for-just-199/
> 
> And there's trouble with the openness of the video drivers, which may 
> make it difficult to upgrade or use nonUbuntu Linuxes.

Or have I mixed this up with another netbook?

-- hendrik
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

lakestevensdental wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken  
>> wrote:
 iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
 one, and
 the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as cheap or
 cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
> FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a couple 
> easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible. 
> 
> Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's relatively 
> simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
> ,
>  
> nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 600M 
> speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a minute 
> faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly impressive how well 
> XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk you never use or 
> need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G internal memory 
> card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck with a whopping 128M... 
> 
fully aware of it, but does that info help a customer that may not even 
have restored the os of any previous computer without grabbing a nearby 
geek?
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[hendrik]

On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:42:05PM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
> >
> > iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed one, and
> > the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as cheap or
> > cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
> 
> March 1, 2009
> 
> Dell offers Ubuntu-loaded Mini 9 netbook for $199
> http://www.cheaplaptops.org.uk/20090301/dell-offer-mini-9-netbook-for-just-199/

And there's trouble with the openness of the video drivers, which may 
make it difficult to upgrade or use nonUbuntu Linuxes.

-- hendrik
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[lakestevensdental]

> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken  
> wrote:
>>> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed 
>>> one, and
>>> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as cheap or
>>> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
FYI, you can install Ubuntu Easy Peasy on a Linux netbook with a couple 
easy steps.  Dual boot to XP or Xandros is possible. 

Also, if you've got a spare XP license floating around, it's relatively 
simple to install XP on a linux netbook 
,
 
nLited or not.  FYI, my nLited XP eee netbook running at a modest 600M 
speed boots from solid state memory in about 15 seconds, about a minute 
faster than most any other XP I've used.  It's truly impressive how well 
XP runs when you nLite and remove all the MS junk you never use or 
need.  I also just upgraded from 500M to a SODIMM 2G internal memory 
card for $25.  Meanwhile, my ntablet appears stuck with a whopping 128M... 

FYI, I spend more time on my tablet than my netbook while poking around 
RSS, simple mind games, email and web.  Netbooks require you to sit up 
in bed, so I can't see retiring my tablet anytime soon. 

I just wish the tablet hardware could be upgraded to higher speed 
processing, with more core memory -- WITHOUT having to buy a new unit.  
Who knows, perhaps an OS upgrade that allowed 256 or 512M of memory 
would help.  Speed would seem likely to fix most of the browsing and 
video limitations many have with the current n8xx tablets.   Faster 
processing and larger memory might also enable actually recording decent 
video with a tablet. 

Always, Fred C
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

Fernando Cassia wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed one, and
>> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as cheap or
>> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.
> 
> March 1, 2009
> 
> Dell offers Ubuntu-loaded Mini 9 netbook for $199
> http://www.cheaplaptops.org.uk/20090301/dell-offer-mini-9-netbook-for-just-199/
> 
> An "upgrade" to XP adds $100 to the price
> FC
> 

check the source, it was a one day offer...

now its back at $249, with the windows version at $299 (after a $20 
instant rebate).

do note however that the windows one have 8GB SSD, while the linux one 
have 4GB...

but a funny little something, the linux one can have 16, 32 or 64GB via 
the customize option, the windows one stops at 16GB...

heh, funny enough the windows and linux mini12 seems equally spec-ed, 
but with the linux one some $35 cheaper...

color me confused...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Fernando Cassia]

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:28 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
>
> iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed one, and
> the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as cheap or
> cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.

March 1, 2009

Dell offers Ubuntu-loaded Mini 9 netbook for $199
http://www.cheaplaptops.org.uk/20090301/dell-offer-mini-9-netbook-for-just-199/

An "upgrade" to XP adds $100 to the price
FC
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Fernando Cassia]

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 6:19 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
> Cedric Cellier wrote:
>>> funny then how more and more of the companies are dropping linux...
>>
>> I start to wonder if all these Asus/Acer/etc don't ship a Linux
>> version first to obtain better OEM deal with microsoft later :-)
>>
> would not be the first time, it also made microsoft keep xp alive longer
> (and attempt to make win7 a more lean os, from what i understand it
> works nicely on atom based netbooks).
>
> would not be the first time microsoft bends over backwards to keep linux
> out of a market.

Heard of the Microsoft lawsuit against TomTom? Guess what operating
system TomTom uses in some of its GPS units?
Linux, you bet...

http://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gpl

The real reason for TomTom Microsoft lawsuit
http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=1953&blogid=14

FC
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

Cedric Cellier wrote:
>> funny then how more and more of the companies are dropping linux...
> 
> I start to wonder if all these Asus/Acer/etc don't ship a Linux
> version first to obtain better OEM deal with microsoft later :-)
> 
would not be the first time, it also made microsoft keep xp alive longer 
(and attempt to make win7 a more lean os, from what i understand it 
works nicely on atom based netbooks).

would not be the first time microsoft bends over backwards to keep linux 
out of a market. a local government just need to ponder out loud 
replacing their windows machines with linux to get a call from the local 
microsoft representative with a great deal...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Cedric Cellier]

> funny then how more and more of the companies are dropping linux...

I start to wonder if all these Asus/Acer/etc don't ship a Linux
version first to obtain better OEM deal with microsoft later :-)

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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

Ognen Duzlevski wrote:
>> the only company that has given linux a fair chance in all this is asus, 
>> and they have the worst linux distro in use...
>>   
> 
> Luckily, Ubuntu runs on Eee.

while true, people will give xandros a spin, find it a nightmare and 
then return the whole eeepc for the windows version...

that is, if they didnt get talked out of buying based on price in the 
first place by the staff at the local store...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Ognen Duzlevski]

>
> the only company that has given linux a fair chance in all this is asus, 
> and they have the worst linux distro in use...
>   

Luckily, Ubuntu runs on Eee.
Ognen
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[kenneth marken]

Fernando Cassia wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:21 PM, lakestevensdental
>  wrote:
>> After using a variety of small internet communication/computing devices,
>> (n800, n810, netbook-eee PC on Xandros, Ubuntu and now XP, plus and Ipod
>> Touch), I've come to some conclusions that might be worth sharing.
>>
>> 1. None of these devices is a truly one size fits all solution for small
>> computing/communication needs. They've all got strengths and weaknesses.
>>
>> 2. For 'serious' portable use, an XP netbook is great.  Good browsing,
>> media player, typing, etc.  It's limits are with casual use -- you can't
>> carry it in your pocket and you've got to be sitting up in bed to use it.
> 
> Nothing that a Dell Mini 9" with Ubuntu can't do with VLC,MPlayer, and
> OpenOffice.org 3.0.1 :)
> 
> It's no wonder 30% of current Netbooks are selling with Linux and
> increasingly threatening Microsoft´s dominant position...
> 
> http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_layoffs_netbooks_sales_are_killing_us
> 
> Just my $0.02
> 
funny then how more and more of the companies are dropping linux...

btw, the dell mini 9 was a joke in relation to linux.

iirc, when first launched the linux variant was the lowest spec-ed one, 
and the windows variants both came with rebates that made them as cheap 
or cheaper then the start out config of the linux one.

and if you tried to spec the linux one to match the windows one, you got 
something that was more expensive then the most expensive windows 
variant, pre rebate.

and yes, the windows variants could all be upped on order if one wanted 
to...

the only company that has given linux a fair chance in all this is asus, 
and they have the worst linux distro in use...
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Fernando Cassia]

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:21 PM, lakestevensdental
 wrote:
> After using a variety of small internet communication/computing devices,
> (n800, n810, netbook-eee PC on Xandros, Ubuntu and now XP, plus and Ipod
> Touch), I've come to some conclusions that might be worth sharing.
>
> 1. None of these devices is a truly one size fits all solution for small
> computing/communication needs. They've all got strengths and weaknesses.
>
> 2. For 'serious' portable use, an XP netbook is great.  Good browsing,
> media player, typing, etc.  It's limits are with casual use -- you can't
> carry it in your pocket and you've got to be sitting up in bed to use it.

Nothing that a Dell Mini 9" with Ubuntu can't do with VLC,MPlayer, and
OpenOffice.org 3.0.1 :)

It's no wonder 30% of current Netbooks are selling with Linux and
increasingly threatening Microsoft´s dominant position...

http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_layoffs_netbooks_sales_are_killing_us

Just my $0.02

FC
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Rick Bilonick]

On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 14:21 -0800, lakestevensdental wrote:
> After using a variety of small internet communication/computing devices, 
> (n800, n810, netbook-eee PC on Xandros, Ubuntu and now XP, plus and Ipod 
> Touch), I've come to some conclusions that might be worth sharing. 
> 
> 1. None of these devices is a truly one size fits all solution for small 
> computing/communication needs. They've all got strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> 2. For 'serious' portable use, an XP netbook is great.  Good browsing, 
> media player, typing, etc.  It's limits are with casual use -- you can't 
> carry it in your pocket and you've got to be sitting up in bed to use it. 

Yes, that's what I want to do. Support a monopoly so they can use their
money to deny me the use of open source software and so they can go on
trying to disrupt and pervert standards for their own ends. My HP2133
running any Linux distribution I want is exactly what I want.

Why not put Vista on your netbook and then use it as a boat anchor?

> 
> 3. There is a definite market niche for a n810/Ipod touch like item.  
> The open source of the n8xx series is generally very good.  However, for 
> much of the Maemo 'freeware' that one can get, there's usually an equal 
> or better inexpensive Ipod Apple App.  There's some Ipod ap's that you 
> can't get on the n8xx. 

Who really cares? Let the idiots have their walled gardens. I want a
device that let's me choose what I want to do - not some bozo at Apple.

> 
> 4. If I were designing the next generation of internet tablet devices, 
> I'd attempt to create a 'standard' plug and play interface for the 
> interior hardware.  In other words, when a faster chip/board comes out, 
> perhaps with new features (like cell phone chip, or motion sensor), 
> users could just pop the old hardware out, plug the upgrade in, boot up, 
> install some new drivers and move on with the rest of my device intact.  
> Then one would offer this open standard for anyone to make plug and play 
> tablet hardware for.
> 
> The reality to all of these devices is it's the software and user 
> interface that makes them work, or not work.  The current limitations 
> are primarily hardware oriented.  It takes a lot of investment to 
> develop new units of both hardware and software.  Hence the suggestion 
> to share the load by adopting some common standards which might speed up 
> development of the entire genre. 
> 
> Just a few thoughts... 

Now if we could just get rid of verizon and comcast.

Rick B.

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Re: N8xx ponderings

[Samer Azmy]

I do agree with what you said, and I have eee for sometime now
the only problem I have is this tiny winy screen, which has it's own reason.

I wonder if any of you tried any portable that has e-ink display

Samer

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 1:05 AM,  wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 03:56:58PM -0800, lakestevensdental wrote:
> >   Having used an ASUS eee PC for several months, I'm growing to like the
> > netbook format more and more, especially after installing XP so it
> > interfaces with all my business and other stuff.
>
> Interesting.  I'm planning to get one of the new eee pc's with a larger
> keyboard soon (I think the number is 1000HE ir something like that.).  I
> expect I'll like it more and more, especially after installing Debian so
> it interfaces with all my business and other stuff.
>
> Oh -- it'll probably be a dual-boot with the xp that's already there.
> It'll be my only Windows machine, and there are a few things Windows is
> useful for -- mostly testing whether software I write that's supposed to
> be portable really is.
>
> -- hendrik
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- There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  The true
nobility is in being superior to your previous self.-- Hindu proverb
- "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power."-Abraham Lincoln
- Live Free or Die-Kernel The Canine-
- Without music, life would be a mistake.- Nietzsche
- He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and fears is
more than a king.-- John Milton
- The best portion of a good man's life is the little, nameless,unremembered
acts of kindness and love.-- William Wordsworth (1770-1850) English poet --
- The higher type of man clings to virtue, the lower type of man clings to
material comfort.  The higher type of man cherishes justice, the lower type
of man cherishes the hope of favors to  be received.-- Confucius (551-479
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[hendrik]

On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 03:56:58PM -0800, lakestevensdental wrote:
>   Having used an ASUS eee PC for several months, I'm growing to like the 
> netbook format more and more, especially after installing XP so it 
> interfaces with all my business and other stuff.

Interesting.  I'm planning to get one of the new eee pc's with a larger 
keyboard soon (I think the number is 1000HE ir something like that.).  I 
expect I'll like it more and more, especially after installing Debian so 
it interfaces with all my business and other stuff.

Oh -- it'll probably be a dual-boot with the xp that's already there.  
It'll be my only Windows machine, and there are a few things Windows is 
useful for -- mostly testing whether software I write that's supposed to 
be portable really is.

-- hendrik
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Re: N8xx ponderings

[lakestevensdental]

Samer Azmy wrote:
> Interesting point of view but I wanted to add something regarding the 
> Nokia N770,N8xx
>
> that they enjoy the Openness which means even if there is an Itouch  
> application tht you cant find on the Nokia , you simply can program it
>
> I see Nokia tablet is more open ended devices.
I agree with the tablet being more software open ended.  IMHO, what 
might really help it take off is if there were some sort of open ended 
hardware standards so more companies would get involved in the system.  
I'm concerned that if it continues on it's current development pattern, 
it will become a dead branch on an evolving tree. 

>
> for the Netbooks, I see them more like a trend that is booking for 
> some reason (may be price, may be users see that they have a cheap 
> laptop,)
  Having used an ASUS eee PC for several months, I'm growing to like the 
netbook format more and more, especially after installing XP so it 
interfaces with all my business and other stuff.  It's way easier to 
carry around the house as well as to and from work.  It takes a small 
footprint on the breakfast table for reading RSS news stuff in the 
morning, it doesn't bake your lap while watching tv, is easily passed 
around to share articles with others.  I'm still adapting to typing on 
it's smallish keyboard, but I'm getting better every week. 

  I'm almost to the point where instead of updating my full sized 
laptop, I'll knock together a full sized top end gamer/video 
production/media unit and use the netbook for my portable computing 
where I need to type something or look at something on the net (outside 
of bed where the tablet works best).

Always, Fred C
>
> please remember that netbook manufactures are still Marketing oriented 
> more than anything else
>
> Regards
> Samer
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 12:21 AM, lakestevensdental 
> mailto:lakestevensden...@verizon.net>> 
> wrote:
>
> After using a variety of small internet communication/computing
> devices,
> (n800, n810, netbook-eee PC on Xandros, Ubuntu and now XP, plus
> and Ipod
> Touch), I've come to some conclusions that might be worth sharing.
>
> 1. None of these devices is a truly one size fits all solution for
> small
> computing/communication needs. They've all got strengths and
> weaknesses.
>
> 2. For 'serious' portable use, an XP netbook is great.  Good browsing,
> media player, typing, etc.  It's limits are with casual use -- you
> can't
> carry it in your pocket and you've got to be sitting up in bed to
> use it.
>
> 3. There is a definite market niche for a n810/Ipod touch like item.
> The open source of the n8xx series is generally very good.
>  However, for
> much of the Maemo 'freeware' that one can get, there's usually an
> equal
> or better inexpensive Ipod Apple App.  There's some Ipod ap's that you
> can't get on the n8xx.
>
> 4. If I were designing the next generation of internet tablet devices,
> I'd attempt to create a 'standard' plug and play interface for the
> interior hardware.  In other words, when a faster chip/board comes
> out,
> perhaps with new features (like cell phone chip, or motion sensor),
> users could just pop the old hardware out, plug the upgrade in,
> boot up,
> install some new drivers and move on with the rest of my device
> intact.
> Then one would offer this open standard for anyone to make plug
> and play
> tablet hardware for.
>
> The reality to all of these devices is it's the software and user
> interface that makes them work, or not work.  The current limitations
> are primarily hardware oriented.  It takes a lot of investment to
> develop new units of both hardware and software.  Hence the suggestion
> to share the load by adopting some common standards which might
> speed up
> development of the entire genre.
>
> Just a few thoughts...
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> -- 
> __
> http://geek2live.blogspot.com/
> http://www.siteheed.com
> - You pick the level of your suffering yourself - Budha-
> - There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  The 
> true nobility is in being superior to your previous self.-- Hindu proverb
> - "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's 
> character, give him power."-Abraham Lincoln
> - Live Free or Die-Kernel The Canine-
> - Without music, life would be a mistake.- Nietzsche
> - He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and 
> fears is more than a king.-- John Milton
> - The best portion of a good man's life is the little, 
> nameless,unremembered acts of kindness and love.-- William Wordsworth 
> (1770-1850) English poet --
> - The higher t

Re: N8xx ponderings

[Samer Azmy]

Interesting point of view but I wanted to add something regarding the Nokia
N770,N8xx

that they enjoy the Openness which means even if there is an Itouch
application tht you cant find on the Nokia , you simply can program it

I see Nokia tablet is more open ended devices.

for the Netbooks, I see them more like a trend that is booking for some
reason (may be price, may be users see that they have a cheap laptop,)

please remember that netbook manufactures are still Marketing oriented more
than anything else

Regards
Samer

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 12:21 AM, lakestevensdental <
lakestevensden...@verizon.net> wrote:

> After using a variety of small internet communication/computing devices,
> (n800, n810, netbook-eee PC on Xandros, Ubuntu and now XP, plus and Ipod
> Touch), I've come to some conclusions that might be worth sharing.
>
> 1. None of these devices is a truly one size fits all solution for small
> computing/communication needs. They've all got strengths and weaknesses.
>
> 2. For 'serious' portable use, an XP netbook is great.  Good browsing,
> media player, typing, etc.  It's limits are with casual use -- you can't
> carry it in your pocket and you've got to be sitting up in bed to use it.
>
> 3. There is a definite market niche for a n810/Ipod touch like item.
> The open source of the n8xx series is generally very good.  However, for
> much of the Maemo 'freeware' that one can get, there's usually an equal
> or better inexpensive Ipod Apple App.  There's some Ipod ap's that you
> can't get on the n8xx.
>
> 4. If I were designing the next generation of internet tablet devices,
> I'd attempt to create a 'standard' plug and play interface for the
> interior hardware.  In other words, when a faster chip/board comes out,
> perhaps with new features (like cell phone chip, or motion sensor),
> users could just pop the old hardware out, plug the upgrade in, boot up,
> install some new drivers and move on with the rest of my device intact.
> Then one would offer this open standard for anyone to make plug and play
> tablet hardware for.
>
> The reality to all of these devices is it's the software and user
> interface that makes them work, or not work.  The current limitations
> are primarily hardware oriented.  It takes a lot of investment to
> develop new units of both hardware and software.  Hence the suggestion
> to share the load by adopting some common standards which might speed up
> development of the entire genre.
>
> Just a few thoughts...
>
>
> ___
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>



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__
http://geek2live.blogspot.com/
http://www.siteheed.com
- You pick the level of your suffering yourself - Budha-
- There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man.  The true
nobility is in being superior to your previous self.-- Hindu proverb
- "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power."-Abraham Lincoln
- Live Free or Die-Kernel The Canine-
- Without music, life would be a mistake.- Nietzsche
- He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and fears is
more than a king.-- John Milton
- The best portion of a good man's life is the little, nameless,unremembered
acts of kindness and love.-- William Wordsworth (1770-1850) English poet --
- The higher type of man clings to virtue, the lower type of man clings to
material comfort.  The higher type of man cherishes justice, the lower type
of man cherishes the hope of favors to  be received.-- Confucius (551-479
BC) Chinese Philosopher
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N8xx ponderings

[lakestevensdental]

After using a variety of small internet communication/computing devices, 
(n800, n810, netbook-eee PC on Xandros, Ubuntu and now XP, plus and Ipod 
Touch), I've come to some conclusions that might be worth sharing. 

1. None of these devices is a truly one size fits all solution for small 
computing/communication needs. They've all got strengths and weaknesses.

2. For 'serious' portable use, an XP netbook is great.  Good browsing, 
media player, typing, etc.  It's limits are with casual use -- you can't 
carry it in your pocket and you've got to be sitting up in bed to use it. 

3. There is a definite market niche for a n810/Ipod touch like item.  
The open source of the n8xx series is generally very good.  However, for 
much of the Maemo 'freeware' that one can get, there's usually an equal 
or better inexpensive Ipod Apple App.  There's some Ipod ap's that you 
can't get on the n8xx. 

4. If I were designing the next generation of internet tablet devices, 
I'd attempt to create a 'standard' plug and play interface for the 
interior hardware.  In other words, when a faster chip/board comes out, 
perhaps with new features (like cell phone chip, or motion sensor), 
users could just pop the old hardware out, plug the upgrade in, boot up, 
install some new drivers and move on with the rest of my device intact.  
Then one would offer this open standard for anyone to make plug and play 
tablet hardware for.

The reality to all of these devices is it's the software and user 
interface that makes them work, or not work.  The current limitations 
are primarily hardware oriented.  It takes a lot of investment to 
develop new units of both hardware and software.  Hence the suggestion 
to share the load by adopting some common standards which might speed up 
development of the entire genre. 

Just a few thoughts... 


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