Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to point out that the buttons are located where they are based on the results of testing with real people, right and left handed. There are so many different ways the people hold and use the device, this is something you have to see to believe. I'm all for moving the buttons to the other side (and no, I'm *not* left-handed). So either there should be buttons on both sides or the device should allow rotation upside down so you can choose which side you prefer. Looks like the solution chosen instead was to give up and ignore the problem completely :-) Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
I'd like to point out that the buttons are located where they are based on the results of testing with real people, right and left handed. There are so many different ways the people hold and use the device, this is something you have to see to believe. I'm all for moving the buttons to the other side (and no, I'm *not* left-handed). So either there should be buttons on both sides or the device should allow rotation upside down so you can choose which side you prefer. Looks like the solution chosen instead was to give up and ignore the problem completely :-) Or prehaps that we do not have a problem but a variety of personal preferences that lead us to the usual can't suit them all situation ;) --jakub ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 16:51 +, Neil MacLeod wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or prehaps that we do not have a problem but a variety of personal preferences that lead us to the usual can't suit them all situation ;) --jakub I'd like to meet the real people who gave feedback on the N800 - not only have they given away the vital hard-case, but they're either all right-handed or only weakly left-handed! :) Placing the buttons on one side cannot be satisfactory for both left and right handed users - such a decision clearly expresses a bias to one group or the other. The argument it works for both isn't logical, and in practice such decisions rarely work well in the real world - this is a prime example. snip Do you see any console joypads from Sony or Microsoft with the arrows on the left, and main buttons on the right? -- Bastien Nocera [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
On 2/13/07, Bastien Nocera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you see any console joypads from Sony or Microsoft with the arrows on the left, and main buttons on the right? You're a righty, aren't you? :-D That's an entirely different thing. I'm not expected to hold a stylus and write/point with it in my right hand, or hold a stylus AND activate buttons all with my left hand on a console. The issue is not that my left hand is so stupid as to be unable to operate buttons or a joystick on my XBox. The issue is that my right hand is to stupid to operate the stylus and my left had doesn't have enough fingers to do everything all at once. FYI, I do operate a right handed mouse because it's just easier. I use the standard WASD/right hand mouse for computer gaming. I just can't do pen type operations with my right hand. Why don't you try doing that with your left hand? Bet you can't! --Paul ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
Bastien Nocera napsal(a): On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 11:43 -0600, Paul Klapperich wrote: On 2/13/07, Bastien Nocera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you see any console joypads from Sony or Microsoft with the arrows on the left, and main buttons on the right? You're a righty, aren't you? :-D Ya ;) And it shows. Joypad on game console is quite different. Personally I have no problems with this on my Xbox or Zodiac. The two types of controls on sides are not that much different and can be used with both hands. Stylus and buttons are very different. Stylus is like pen, you are even supposed to write with it (hwr recognition) but even pointing precisely is harder with the wrong hand. Can you write with your left hand? Or use stylus with your nokia constantly with your left hand? Try it and you will feel the pain twice (both for keys and stylus). That's an entirely different thing. I'm not expected to hold a stylus and write/point with it in my right hand, or hold a stylus AND activate buttons all with my left hand on a console. Stylus, yeah. The previous points were about moving the buttons to a different side, which wouldn't really help anyway. No, in fact you missed the point completely. Re-read what Paul said. Usable buttons on the other side would help a lot. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
On Tuesday 13 February 2007 01:46:29 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to point out that the buttons are located where they are based on the results of testing with real people, right and left handed. There are so many different ways the people hold and use the device, this is something you have to see to believe. I'm all for moving the buttons to the other side (and no, I'm *not* left-handed). So either there should be buttons on both sides or the device should allow rotation upside down so you can choose which side you prefer. Looks like the solution chosen instead was to give up and ignore the problem completely :-) Or prehaps that we do not have a problem but a variety of personal preferences that lead us to the usual can't suit them all situation ;) --jakub Jakub, I vote for the can't make them all happy column. Fits an old army saying a happy private is a griping private. *grin* James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:08:51 + Neil MacLeod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NM Positioning the wheel on the top left or top right shoulders of NM the device would work for me (as I'm right handed) but this would NM not work at all for a left-handed person who has to rotate the NM screen 180 degrees for comfortable use (secondary wheel in the NM bottom right corner?) I think Nokia need to give more NM consideration to left-handed users I agree that lefties get worse usability in general. The 770 and N800 are not usable with the left hand holding the stylus; I wrote about this to the list before. The solution, IMHO, is to provide a flip-out keyboard that would make the stylus less necessary, and text input easier. If the 9000, 9500, 9300, and E90 can do it, why not the N800++? The keyboard would also, when closed, protect that nice screen. (someone on the #maemo channel mentioned the E90 has the same processor and memory as the N800... hmmm...) Ted ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
Ted, I too like the idea of a keyboard. I have a UTStarcom 6700 and the keyboard is of the slide out variety which works very well. Here is the url to a www page at the UTStarcom www site that shows an image of the unit with the keyboard slid out: http://www.utstar.com/PCD/view_phone_details.aspx?mcode=PPC6700bID=30sAct=0 This keyboard design gets generally good reviews from users however one problem with it is that keying in numerics is a pain because it requires a special key + the selected number. Also, given the handset's form factor, the keyboard is a bit small for those with large hands/fingers. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM serving the digital home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging carrier markets (M) 703 407 2278 (F) 703 620 5388 primary email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] backup email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:08:51 + Neil MacLeod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NM Positioning the wheel on the top left or top right shoulders of NM the device would work for me (as I'm right handed) but this would NM not work at all for a left-handed person who has to rotate the NM screen 180 degrees for comfortable use (secondary wheel in the NM bottom right corner?) I think Nokia need to give more NM consideration to left-handed users I agree that lefties get worse usability in general. The 770 and N800 are not usable with the left hand holding the stylus; I wrote about this to the list before. The solution, IMHO, is to provide a flip-out keyboard that would make the stylus less necessary, and text input easier. If the 9000, 9500, 9300, and E90 can do it, why not the N800++? The keyboard would also, when closed, protect that nice screen. (someone on the #maemo channel mentioned the E90 has the same processor and memory as the N800... hmmm...) Ted ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
On 2/12/07, Ted Zlatanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (someone on the #maemo channel mentioned the E90 has the same processor and memory as the N800... hmmm...) The E90 will also run about $1000 without carrier subsidy when it's released in Q3... yikes. Those hinges and double-screen (not too mention the keyboard) looks awesome though. -- Jonathan Greene m 917.560.3000 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gizmo - JonathanGreene blog - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
As a lefty I must say this initially was a bit of a peeve But in reality you don't need precision to point a stylus and/or tap keystrokesso I've switched rather than FIGHT. Works well enough...although switching hands takes some getting used to. mike (flashing back to green scissors in k'garten and getting spanked for being lefty) klein Frantisek Dufka wrote: Neil MacLeod wrote: I think Nokia need to give more consideration to left-handed users - lefties should consider class action suits against big corps citing discrimination and access issues! :) Yes, someone in US please do sue them :-) I am left handed myself so my opinion is of course very strong on this. I was really quite shocked that after N770 they actually dared to design second device with all butons on left side again. Simply unbelievable to me. Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
I'm also a lefty...but enjoy every opportunity to use my right hand as well. It makes us smarter! All suing will do is make Nokia delay the launch of the N990 in the US, and that will make both righties and lefties unhappy! Jae ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
Jae Stutzman wrote: I'm also a lefty...but enjoy every opportunity to use my right hand as well. It makes us smarter! Yes, that's the positive attitude. But it is hard to keep that attitude when trying to type on virtual keyboard with stylus in right hand :-) All suing will do is make Nokia delay the launch of the N990 in the US, and that will make both righties and lefties unhappy! Or let them figure out that buttons on both sides (with key customization in control panel) are useful for all. And that will make both righties and lefties very happy! Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 01:12:50PM -0800, Mike Klein wrote: As a lefty I must say this initially was a bit of a peeve But in reality you don't need precision to point a stylus and/or tap keystrokesso I've switched rather than FIGHT. Works well enough...although switching hands takes some getting used to. When you are part of the minority, you learn quickly to adapt. Being a left on many a device that is slightly right-handed biased, I feel everyone's pain. I have not gone as far as switch the preferred stylus hand. I prefer to grab the page w/ my stylus and drag it up or down about a page. This works pretty well in opera. Fortunately, because using the stylus in the left hand and hitting the scrollbar is very uncomfortable. I wouldn't mind the N800 have a personal preference for scrollbars on the left instead of the right. There is a bug about lefties: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=100 I know that 1/5th of the global population is lefty. I wonder what the current population breakdown is for this list is? E -- Erik Hovland mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://hovland.org/ PGP/GPG public key available on request ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
Or let them figure out that buttons on both sides (with key customization in control panel) are useful for all. And that will make both righties and lefties very happy! Continued expansion of the form factor makes me very unhappy. I wish they'd have left the stereo speakers off the N800 and tightened up the form factor, and redundant buttons would make me very sad. I'm a lefty and I haven't quite figured out why this bothers everyone else and not me. Maybe it's that there are few functions that the buttons provide that don't have strong alternatives within the touchscreen interface, maybe I just have a higher tolerance for inconvenience than your average southpaw. As far as proposed solutions, I think elegant symmetrical hardware design that allows full access in right-handed or left-handed modes would be fantastic for the next hardware iteration. I frown on any proposed solution that expands the form-factor, though. Thanks, Mike ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
James Sparenberg wrote: The one thing I find interesting is that lefties have so much trouble. I find the buttons on the left unusable as I have to put the 'pointer' in my mouth grab with right hand, partially release the left hand grip to move thumb to buttons. But then again I may just be weird. From my view it was friendlier to a lefty as you never have to switch holding hands. Well I guess you could operate buttons with your left hand as it doesn't need too much precision. I just tried to put my n770 upside down and try buttons with my right hand and it doesn't feel bad to me. However using the pen in righ hand is very hard for me as it often needs precise aiming. A a result I hold it in my left hand and that prevents me from using the buttons at all at the same time. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: suggestion for next Nokia tablet
On 2/12/07, Mike Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Continued expansion of the form factor makes me very unhappy. I wish they'd have left the stereo speakers off the N800 and tightened up the form factor, and redundant buttons would make me very sad. I might be the only one, but I'm actually quite happy about the stereo speakers. N800 is already starting to replace the iPod for me, and the speakers mean I don't need to carry travel speakers if I want to listen to music in a hotel room for example. Considering for example the portable devices I took for the Death Monkey (www.deathmonkey.org) trip where space was very difficult to have, N800 replaces three devices out of four: * Nokia 770 for web browsing and navigation with Maemo Mapper * N90 for calling, taking pictures and blogging with LifeBlog (I don't think we had Maemo Blog then) * iPod for portable music * Travel speakers Without the need to carry iPod and speakers around I would probably now take the N800 and a proper camera, and replace the N90 with a smaller phone that would mostly act only as a Bluetooth modem. Blogging would now happen with the on-screen keyboard of the N800 instead of the phone's numeric pad. But then again, I guess this is not the kind of scenario everybody feels connected with ;-) Mike /Henri -- Henri Bergius Motorcycle adventures and Open Source Software http://bergie.iki.fi/ Skype: henribergius Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
