Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Hi, ext Mark Haury wrote: As for reflashing, Chinook is still better than Diablo as far as stability and certain apps working properly. I've had my tablet long enough that it came with Bora, and there were compelling reasons to upgrade to Chinook. The final Chinook upgrade was a nightmare because the backup/restore didn't work and I had to reinstall everything from scratch. The only compelling reason to upgrade to Diablo thus far is the flashless updates, except people have been reporting similar breakage with those... Personally I think the main advantage of Diablo are the performance improvements in Browser. It depends a bit on which pages you visit, but for some pages (having transparent overlays, especially when zoomed), the browser is significantly faster. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Hi Ryan: Could you be so extremely kind as to tell me why I cannot edit wiki pages any more? By the way, my user login is 'sebas'... (just in case you need it). Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On Nov 23, 2008, at 7:54 AM, sebastian maemo wrote: Hi Ryan: Could you be so extremely kind as to tell me why I cannot edit wiki pages any more? By the way, my user login is 'sebas'... (just in case you need it). It's probably this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3788 Editing anonymously over https shouldn't present a problem. . . . -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/23 Ryan Abel [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's probably this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3788 Editing anonymously over https shouldn't present a problem. . . . Ok, thank you... I still cannot edit by my username, but after adding 's' to 'http' I am at least allowed to edit the wiki page... Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Hallo! ...and the Psion Series 5 and up, and the Agenda VR3, and probably many other cases... As an owner of an Agenda VR I can assure you that that thing and my N810 together with the community, Nokia, documentation, web presence, build environement and every other aspect I can thing of are definitely worlds apart! Don't even think about comparing them :-) -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
[Top posting to waste as little time as possible on this useless topic.] I have sent the owner of the repository this mail: Hi, We're currently working on getting the number of external repositories down to a minimum. Our goal is to have a lot less repositories on gronmayer as soon as possible. This will hopefully improve user experience. It seems that you have a repository with some or more packages duplicated in Extras. Is this repository outdated? Is there a possibility for you to move all useful packages to Extras and shut your own one down? If you need any help with packages that need to brought over to Extras, please let me know. We will gladly help you with problematic packages. Thanks in advance! -- Niels Breet maemo.org webmaster PS. We keep a list of repositories and their status here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories And he answered: yes, my repository is outdated. There is only one usefull package - becomeroot for bora, but it work for other distributions. So, make up your own conclusions. I will keep working on improving the _community_ repository and end-user experience. I am very sad to see that people misunderstand genuine efforts to improve things and even worse: Communicate without any consideration. Sometimes it is good to count to 10 before you start a flame mail. -- Niels Breet maemo.org webmaster On Fri, November 21, 2008 19:19, sebastian maemo wrote: What the Hell is going on with Maemo repositories? Today I've been trying to install kismet package, and after trying to download it from eko.one.pl I found the following warning message:http://eko.one.pl/maemo/ ** * Eko1 repo was shut down, due to request of maemo.org's webmaster. ( https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories) Use Extras from maemo repo. ** * But what the Hell... This package is not any more in Extras maemo repository! so that it has just disappeared... Come on, Quim... what good excuse are you going to tell us now...? Is Nokia (or Maemo) trying to save our souls from the sin of using kismet? Is it just a coincidence? (How many of them... nevertheless) Salut, Sebas. PD: Sorry very much if you find this message unpolite, but I'm really fed up with this kind of situations... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On 11/21/08, Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Haury wrote: Everybody who owns one of these tablets is not a developer. according to original poster he was after Kismet. That is not a toy your average user would install. He did know what he was asking for. He did know about etiquette on ML and he should've checked the facts before accusing people. Mark, you didn't help the cause - you've inflamed issue too. Sorry, that's the sad truth. ...except this is not an isolated incident. I've had similar experiences. Sometimes a simple update of one app through App Manager is enough to cause problems. As for reflashing, Chinook is still better than Diablo as far as stability and certain apps working properly. I've had my tablet long enough that it came with Bora, and there were compelling reasons to upgrade to Chinook. The final Chinook upgrade was a nightmare because the backup/restore didn't work and I had to reinstall everything from scratch. The only compelling reason to upgrade to Diablo thus far is the flashless updates, except people have been reporting similar breakage with those... So get off your high horse: these issues affect everybody, including the novices. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/22 Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] first of all: why do you reflash your 770? Ever since I've got my 800 I have reflashed it exactly once - to get Diablo. Is there some specific requirement of 770 to reflash it so often? Is that because of the fact that pre-diablo systems can't be upgraded without reflash? Because 770 gets easily corrupted... In 770 you can originally only install up to half a hundred of MB apps more or less... This is clearly not enough for an active end-user... After doing some research and asking Fanoush's help, I edited the first wiki how to easily boot from your MMC (or MMC for dummies like me). Now this wiki is a classic, and has been deprecated (without asking me at all, it's ok, this is the way wiki works, I understand it perfectly) and substituted by something that I'm still not sure whether it also works for 770 (I'm going to check it this weekend). So that I finally managed to boot from MMC and install all apps I really needed... The problem is that this system gets easily corrupted (last time it was because I tried to format corrupted MMC vfat partition, but did it the wrong way and made unusable my ext2 partition, so that I need to start again from ground zero). To clone the system to the MMC you need to start from a fresh flashed device (I've experienced many kind of problems when not doing so). Secondly: you seem to know which packages you want/like/use. Why don't you have them handy someplace safe? every linux system I own (which is much more than one) has a cache of packages I have installed currently in one form or another so that in case my system/internet/something else goes in flames - I can rebuild safely. You reflash your device - you know you will need packages you have installed currently, why do you not keep copy of them? You seem like an advanced kind of person. It's a common sense, considering you've ran into that problem before. Because nobody told me to do so. I never imagined that Nokia and/or Maemo would be so irresponsible as to allow this to happen. I've never built my own Debian repo. So I thought that my needed deb packages would be there safe in the net... Of course, before starting this thread (some minutes before) first thing I did was to save in a folder all my deb packages. I even downloaded kismet package from a private owner who was so kind... so that the thread was just a complain against Nokia and Maemo, though my problem was already solved half an hour before... The aim of my complain was to help other users not to suffer this same problem (that I had already solved for me)... Instead of accusing Nokia I would suggest to go to the source of the problem and ask repo maintainers for reasons why repo has disappeared and what are the alternative solutions if any. In my humild (and maybe wrong) opinion Nokia is the source of the problem. That's what people see when I boot my device (that I tell them it's not a PDA but a full GNU/Linux box laptop, and I even teach my students C++ programming compiling simple programs directly in the 770): Ohh, it's a Nokia... Just going around and blaming the biggest elephant in the zoo is not going to bring back to life your goat that escaped over the fence. Yes, situation with repos is a Zoo and Nokia is the biggest animal there so it is convenient to yell at them at all times, but not always is it their fault. Well, that's your point of view... (and many others' here in this list). I'm an N800 user. I shot my foot off on more than one occasion just because I've decided to get adventurous and include or enable something Nokia has very little (if any) control over. Would I want Nokia to seize control and protect me from myself? No. I want to be able to screw up and learn from it. What you're asking is for Nokia to take full controll. No apples here thankyouverymuch. I like my eco-system exactly the way it is. Repos are responsible for their content and are should answer to their users. Nokia is (as a repo owner) reponsible for content in it's *own* repos and it should remain that way. I agree with that. I applaud their effort consolidating repos, however I don't expect that Nokia will have all repos consolidated. Before Nokia tried to consolidate any repo my problem didn't exist... My problem came with Nokia's decision... So though they're indirectly responsible for that... (from my point of view, of course). And *that* is up to repo owners. Repo owner took repo offline - ask them. I don't agree with that. Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/22 Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] according to original poster he was after Kismet. That is not a toy your average user would install. He did know what he was asking for. He did know about etiquette on ML and he should've checked the facts before accusing people. Mark, you didn't help the cause - you've inflamed issue too. Sorry, that's the sad truth. I'm not a developer. I'm just an advanced user. I use kismet for educational purposes. Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:55:28 +0100 sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it really exists a folder named extras-devel in http://repository.maemo.org/ it should be explained in the main website where you can find a detailed description of all folders in the site... Do you understand what I mean when I say that Maemo is a mess? and there is NO reason for this to happen, because solutions are so easy... The main page has a nice link to https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras It's so easy, only READ MORE and TALK LESS. - -- Daniel Martin Yerga http://yerga.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkoWFUACgkQcnvB1T3xmfMwYACePYHargCFUPnUHa710UbafSVW w5wAniqi7p6sWLI4T2Zwu83cFRvnqIv9 =lmBm -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/22 Niels Breet [EMAIL PROTECTED] We're currently working on getting the number of external repositories down to a minimum. Our goal is to have a lot less repositories on gronmayer as soon as possible. This will hopefully improve user experience. Gronmayer is a great site... after this site exists I can find anything I need very easy... So, make up your own conclusions. My conclusion is that before you took any action everything worked more or less. My desired package was more or less findable... Now it's just disappeared... Your fault or repo owner's fault? It depends on who's going to answer... I don't know whether your work is voluntary or paid... but it really doesn't matter. If paid it's a sin (even your attitude to me and this thread would be a sin if you were paid for this work)... But if it isn't paid and it's just a voluntary work, though I understand that it's easier to find some innocent mistakes in a voluntary work, even in that case you should have been more responsible before accomplishing your task... When I edit a wiki I always try to be very careful and not corrupt what is up to now well done. It's true that if repos consolidation works it'll be great, but you need to do with all guarantees before trying to erase any old repo, because so many other people depends on that old backup... So don't be so stupidly concerned about the politeness of the thread and take responsibility on your own actions... I will keep working on improving the _community_ repository and end-user experience. I hope you first think better what you do to allegedly improve it... I am very sad to see that people misunderstand genuine efforts to improve things and even worse: Communicate without any consideration. Oh... my God... how unpolite and inconsiderate... I'm not going to invite him/her to have a cup of tea any more... Shouldn't you be concerned about more important questions already mentioned in the thread? Sometimes it is good to count to 10 before you start a flame mail. Sometimes it is good to count to 10 before you close a working repository. maemo.org webmaster Big title, isn't it? Should be (maybe) big responsibility too... Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:47:47 +0100 sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Before Nokia tried to consolidate any repo my problem didn't exist... My problem came with Nokia's decision... So though they're indirectly responsible for that... (from my point of view, of course). Again, Nokia don't tried consolidate any repo, the pushing of the extras repository was because the Maemo Comunnity want it. I didn't see anyone complaint when it was proposed, you should have explained your reasons when it happened. And *that* is up to repo owners. Repo owner took repo offline - ask them. I don't agree with that. If the developer agree with upload her packages to extras and close her repository, but the developer close her own repository without upload the packages to extras... - -- Daniel Martin Yerga http://yerga.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkoWWkACgkQcnvB1T3xmfOd2wCdE6l8DIbvJWtvMpBnpK1Wy7CR j/QAoIATuphGIOPUHWJRNsdcQrRlVvEB =EpHZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/22 Daniel Martin Yerga [EMAIL PROTECTED] If it really exists a folder named extras-devel in http://repository.maemo.org/ it should be explained in the main website where you can find a detailed description of all folders in the site... Do you understand what I mean when I say that Maemo is a mess? and there is NO reason for this to happen, because solutions are so easy... The main page has a nice link to https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras It's so easy, only READ MORE and TALK LESS. Dear Daniel... the apps you've developed are so useful that I won't take into consideration your yelling at me... But do you actually think that you're right??? Maemo is a fucking mess and you've just shown it to me: http://repository.maemo.org explains there only exists extra folder and https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras explains the contrary, that there also exists extra-devel folder. What a fucking mess is this? and who's responsible for that? So please stop yelling at me and read more before talking so much... Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/22 Daniel Martin Yerga [EMAIL PROTECTED] I didn't see anyone complaint when it was proposed, you should have explained your reasons when it happened. Why should I complain?... I think it's a great idea... when it's done with care of course... you cannot disable a repository until you confirm that all packages are correctly transferred... But it's so logical thing that I really don't understand what all you are talking about... Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:19:32 +0100 sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Daniel... the apps you've developed are so useful that I won't take into consideration your yelling at me... Well, thanks. I won't take your last thread as consideration because you have been helpful many more times in the mailing list. But do you actually think that you're right??? Maemo is a fucking mess and you've just shown it to me: http://repository.maemo.org explains there only exists extra folder and https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras explains the contrary, that there also exists extra-devel folder. What a fucking mess is this? and who's responsible for that? Well, if you look at one page that isn't announced in anywhere, and that users shouldn't look to search for information, it generally happen that you get outdated information, as it's this the case. Also, a static page is more difficult to update than a wiki page. But, I encourage you to write good reports in bugs.maemo.org of things you see than are so fucking mess, and sure the people in the community will do its best to fix it. So please stop yelling at me and read more before talking so much... Oh, no, I wasn't yelling you, at least I didn't want it. I only was remarking the words, not yelling. And please, don't take this so seriously, people shouldn't get angry using its tablets, else the contrary. - -- Daniel Martin Yerga http://yerga.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkoZAQACgkQcnvB1T3xmfPzuwCffP9iQX1oByL6tI7DzfKCjHYC JZEAn2kZjGUj6kya+4uVxl7PqKF8OJzf =mGyd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
sebastian maemo wrote: Why should I complain?... I think it's a great idea... when it's done with care of course... you cannot disable a repository until you confirm that all packages are correctly transferred... But it's so logical thing that I really don't understand what all you are talking about... You've missed the point: Nokia/Maemo.org didn't ask to take down repo - they have asked to move packages over. Owner of the repo made a decision to unplug the repo and abandon packages in it (See Niels email for details). I think it it quite clear what has happened and I can't see how Nokia/Maemo.org is at fault: 1. Mail gets sent out on behalf of Nokia/Maemo.org 2. Repo owner has the impression that none of his packages are in active use 3. Repo owner unplugs the repo 4. User community gets upset with Nokia/Maemo.org Clearly first thing you should do: contact repo owner and clear #2. It is easy to blame Nokia/Maemo.org, but please do this when it's deserved. This case clearly doesn't qualify. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On Nov 22, 2008, at 3:35 PM, Dmitry S. Makovey wrote: sebastian maemo wrote: Why should I complain?... I think it's a great idea... when it's done with care of course... you cannot disable a repository until you confirm that all packages are correctly transferred... But it's so logical thing that I really don't understand what all you are talking about... Nokia/Maemo.org . . . Nokia/Maemo.org . . . Nokia/Maemo.org . . . Nokia/Maemo.org Just to clarify, the decision to centralize on Extras came from the community and maemo.org. Nokia was not involved. ;) -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Ok, thanks to all of you for so much feedback... this means people is involved anyway... I think it's time to flash back and try to be constructive... As I've admitted before, the original rant of the first mail in the thread is because of the obvious disappointment after so many months having struggled to get things working on my tablet and once realize that everything could be just broken down too easy... I think that to have your own repo of deb packages shouldn't be necessary, but the point is that now I already have mine... Besides, I think that when somenone builds a package and it becomes useful for somebody else then it transcends his/her ownership and becomes something public that needs to be protected by, for example in this case, Maemo.org... Maybe the original developer isn't interested any more in his/her own package but surely someone else is... That could be the case of kismet port... And finally, I think that Maemo maintainers and involved people shouldn't play so defensively when a problem arises... I know this is a very typical attitude in some Linux forums, but because of Nokia's hidden presence, I think Maemo's something different, more business or customer-oriented attitude, and more friendly and helpful. At least I find this ML more friendly and problem solver that the typical RTFM... And now, I'll check the new wikihttp://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_cardabout booting from MMC and modify it in case it doesn't work to me... By the way, I've recently learned how to build deb packages and have built a package (that works perfectly for me) to download videos of YouTube to the tablet, and another one to have a PGP secured Folder in my Desktop. Anybody could give me a hint on where to start to become a Maemo developer and get help to improve these packages?... Salut and peace in the world ;-) Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/23 sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED] And now, I'll check the new wikihttp://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_cardabout booting from MMC and modify it in case it doesn't work to me... I'd like to... but something doesn't work with wiki.maemo.org ... who's to blame? ;-) Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Works for me, but they did mess up with the squid running on the wiki so in Firefox, just press Ctrl-Shift-R when you get a blank page. On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 6:23 AM, sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: 2008/11/23 sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED] And now, I'll check the new wikihttp://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_cardabout booting from MMC and modify it in case it doesn't work to me... I'd like to... but something doesn't work with wiki.maemo.org ... who's to blame? ;-) Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/23 Faheem Pervez [EMAIL PROTECTED] Works for me, but they did mess up with the squid running on the wiki so in Firefox, just press Ctrl-Shift-R when you get a blank page. Nope... it doesn't work for me... I can login OK but when I follow the link to the page I want to edit I'm not logged anymore... I've sent an e-mail to General Antilles (sic) to hope for solution... Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
In their defense (shocking coming from me, I know...), it's exactly this kind of nightmare they're trying to prevent. By making people use the official repositories instead of putting things in their personal servers all over the Internet, it will make things easier to find and hopefully more reliable. That's no consolation when there's a problem with the switch at the worst possible moment for you, I know. Mark On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:19 AM, sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What the Hell is going on with Maemo repositories? Today I've been trying to install kismet package, and after trying to download it from eko.one.pl I found the following warning message: *** Eko1 repo was shut down, due to request of maemo.org's webmaster. (https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories) Use Extras from maemo repo. *** But what the Hell... This package is not any more in Extras maemo repository! so that it has just disappeared... Come on, Quim... what good excuse are you going to tell us now...? Is Nokia (or Maemo) trying to save our souls from the sin of using kismet? Is it just a coincidence? (How many of them... nevertheless) Salut, Sebas. PD: Sorry very much if you find this message unpolite, but I'm really fed up with this kind of situations... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Hi, sebastian maemo wrote: Come on, Quim... what good excuse are you going to tell us now...? First, there is no excuse for this personal attack. PD: Sorry very much if you find this message unpolite, but I'm really fed up with this kind of situations... Apologising after being impolite doesn't make it better. Eko1 repo was shut down, due to request of maemo.org's webmaster. (https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories) Use Extras from maemo repo. maemo.org's webmaster is Niels, not Quim. If you had read that wiki page, you would see that this task is owned by Niels. This looks very much like a misunderstanding to me. Perhaps you need to activate devel-extras to get kismet? Or perhaps the repository owner misunderstood a query from Niels? Perhaps kismet is available in extras and you're doing something wrong? Or perhaps it's in the process of being included, and just hasn't cleared all the steps yet? In any case, there are any number of reasonable innocent honest explanations I would investigate before jumping to the conspiracy theory of Quim (ie Nokia) trying to shut down unwelcome applications. I don't know which one is true. Perhaps if you'd asked differently, someone would have taken pleasure in clearing it up. Dave. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/21 Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] In their defense (shocking coming from me, I know...), it's exactly this kind of nightmare they're trying to prevent. By making people use the official repositories instead of putting things in their personal servers all over the Internet, it will make things easier to find and hopefully more reliable. I know Mark... I fully agree with the discipline of unifying repos in Maemo main server... but if that means that they're going to judge which software is convenient or not... then it's not so interesting... In Debian repos you can find everything: free, non-free, restricted or anything. Without any kind of censorship... I stopped using SuSE because of this censorship... Maemo is based on Debian not on SuSE... I hope... Nevertheless I'm frustrated because of the community not for my individual case... In fact, I've already downloaded kismet from a private repo, and now that I do NOT trust Maemo anymore... I'm storing my own repo site, collecting the deb packages for my 770 and anyone who cares about freedom of use and continued service (what kind of service are we receiving from Nokia as Maemo users?... we're supposed to be customers!) Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/21 Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] First, there is no excuse for this personal attack. Personal attack?... Excuse me, Dave, but personal attack is what you are doing to me! So be careful with what you say, please. I'm just an unsatisfied customer, and Quim is Marketing Manager at Nokia. Besides he participates in maemo-users list, so that I've all the necessary rights to attack him, not personally but as a Nokia Manager. Sorry for being so direct but it was your fault not mine... Apologising after being impolite doesn't make it better. So I shouldn't accept your apologies... maemo.org's webmaster is Niels, not Quim. If you had read that wiki page, you would see that this task is owned by Niels. I don't care about that. I just bought my Nokia 770 and want to use it without *unnecessary* headaches... This looks very much like a misunderstanding to me. Perhaps you need to activate devel-extras to get kismet? Or perhaps the repository owner misunderstood a query from Niels? Perhaps kismet is available in extras and you're doing something wrong? Or perhaps it's in the process of being included, and just hasn't cleared all the steps yet? It looks like you're just guessing. I think that before participating in a thread you should first inform yourself pretty well and then try to help if possible... If you don't know what's really happening then stop guessing or at least stop critizing my post for that reason... In any case, there are any number of reasonable innocent honest explanations I would investigate before jumping to the conspiracy theory of Quim (ie Nokia) trying to shut down unwelcome applications. Conspiracy is there. The fact that you don't believe in it doesn't make it less true... I don't know which one is true. So that I don't understand the purpose of your mail, but a personal attack to an unsatisfied customer... Perhaps if you'd asked differently, someone would have taken pleasure in clearing it up. Sorry Dave... I think you missed the point... I'm not asking at all... I'm just complaining (even if you don't like it)... Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/21 Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] I get what you're saying, but remember that Nokia is in this for the money, not for others' benefit or because it's the right thing to do. That means planned obsolescence is in effect, as well as control (in other words, *not* true FOSS) and other things... I'm in the business too, so that I try to understand. But when you've been struggling to get things working in your Nokia Tablet... the least thing you expect is that all your system is in danger because a fatal move of some employee at Nokia. And if that happens I'm going to complain... as they would complain if they couldn't find spare pieces for their old Opel Kadett... Sorry but I still can buy razor blades for my even older Gillette Contour Plus!!! Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, sebastian maemo wrote: Come on, Quim... what good excuse are you going to tell us now...? First, there is no excuse for this personal attack. ...so two wrongs make a right?... PD: Sorry very much if you find this message unpolite, but I'm really fed up with this kind of situations... Apologising after being impolite doesn't make it better. ...So the truth hurts. Sometimes things need to be said, even if one knows they aren't going to be well-received. It is in fact valid to express it when one has been inconvenienced or ignored, and recognizing that someone may be annoyed by that is in fact better than a pure rant that attacks the messenger rather than the message. Eko1 repo was shut down, due to request of maemo.org's webmaster. (https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories) Use Extras from maemo repo. maemo.org's webmaster is Niels, not Quim. If you had read that wiki page, you would see that this task is owned by Niels. ...if, and you should and you would... Perhaps you need to recognize that not everyone is created equal, and not everyone knows the entire contents of the wiki and has committed it to memory or has the time to search it for every bit of minutiae? This looks very much like a misunderstanding to me. Perhaps you need to activate devel-extras to get kismet? Or perhaps the repository owner misunderstood a query from Niels? Perhaps kismet is available in extras and you're doing something wrong? Or perhaps it's in the process of being included, and just hasn't cleared all the steps yet? Perhaps (and from the initial post it's quite obviously the case) he has already done more work tracking down the possibilities than you are willing to give him credit for? Perhaps apps could be included in the official repository and tested _before_ nuking the original source? Perhaps you could quit blaming the victims and start dealing with the real problems? In any case, there are any number of reasonable innocent honest explanations I would investigate before jumping to You need to take a pound or two of your own cure. You're as guilty as anyone of jumping to conclusions and making personal attacks. (See above...) the conspiracy theory of Quim (ie Nokia) trying to shut down unwelcome applications. I don't know which one is true. Perhaps if you'd asked differently, someone would have taken pleasure in clearing it up. Yeah, it's okay to shoot the messenger if you don't like the tone or content of the message. That makes it easier to ignore the facts. NOT! Dave. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The bottom line is that there are some serious problems in the way that Nokia has and continues to approach the ITs and support for them. Until they not only acknowledge that but address it realistically, they are going to have to deal with the occasional attack. Get used to it! If we customers are going to have to live with the everpresent disappointment of devices that aren't coming anywhere near to living up to their hype or potential, then you're going to have to get used to the occasional complaint or rant. That's how it works. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Aw: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Hallo! As one of the people that had shutdown his own repository as response to mentioned request to consolidate I can assure that such request was very polite, I was never forced and every help was promised (which I did not need) and no timeline was given. We never talked about the actual contents of my repository. I fact I'm of the opinion that such aproach goes into the direction. So please wait until the owner of the now closed repository speaks up to clearify. Note that Nokia regarding this aspect is not Apple. Please calm down and let the facts speak. Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Am Freitag, den 21.11.2008, 20:10 +0100 schrieb sebastian maemo: 2008/11/21 Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] First, there is no excuse for this personal attack. Personal attack?... Excuse me, Dave, but personal attack is what you are doing to me! So be careful with what you say, please. Your sentence Come on, Quim... what good excuse are you going to tell us now...? looks attacking to me too. You imply that your issue is Quim's or Nokia's responsibility, while it's clearly not. Actually reading the shut down, due to request of maemo.org's webmaster sentence you have posted and comparing the last part to the string Marketing Manager can avoid such misunderstandings. andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/21 Tim Teulings [EMAIL PROTECTED] Note that Nokia regarding this aspect is not Apple. Please calm down and let the facts speak. Ok, Tim. I *really* love your contribution to the Maemo community, and anderenen repository was one of my *must*... So I really appreciate your point of view. But, come on, someone who could tell me where's kismet package... It's supposed to be in repository.maemo.org ... Dave talked about an ideal devel-extra folder that doesn't exist, at least as detailed in their webpage http://repository.maemo.org/ ... (Very important: I've already got my own copy of kismet package... this rant is to help the community not myself) I think you should understand how frustrating is for end-users this kind of situations... and I must admit that I've learned a *big* lot of Unix admin since I got my 770. (In fact thesehttp://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card wikis http://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card are more or less my own creatures... ) Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Tim Teulings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! As one of the people that had shutdown his own repository as response to mentioned request to consolidate I can assure that such request was very polite, I was never forced and every help was promised (which I did not need) and no timeline was given. We never talked about the actual contents of my repository. ...Which is clearly a bad idea. The details obviously *should* be worked out and a timeline chosen so that the switchover can happen smoothly. It can be cooperative rather than dictatorial, but that's irrelevant to the end-user. I fact I'm of the opinion that such aproach goes into the direction. Of what? It's a bad thing to have seamless transitions? So please wait until the owner of the now closed repository speaks up to clearify. It doesn't matter how politely Nokia may have asked you to shutdown your repository any more than it matters how rudely someone may express their discontent about a problem with their device, its OS or an application. The truth is the truth, regardless of how it's couched. Note that Nokia regarding this aspect is not Apple. Please calm down and let the facts speak. Gruß... Tim On the contrary, Nokia is proving to be more unresponsive and unreasonable than Apple. At least Apple takes responsibility not only for their hardware devices but for their usability. Nokia apparently thinks they can just throw their devices out into the wild and their responsibility ends there. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/21 Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nokia apparently thinks they can just throw their devices out into the wild and their responsibility ends there. ;-) That's exactly how I feel about it... Salut, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Aw: Re: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Hello! ...Which is clearly a bad idea. The details obviously *should* be worked out and a timeline chosen so that the switchover can happen smoothly. It can be cooperative rather than dictatorial, but that's irrelevant to the end-user. But Nokia did not force me to immediately shutdown the repository. I would have been able to get my software first into extras and then shutdown my own rep. I fact I did it this way and the rep owner of that kismet rep could have this, too. Why he did it not this way I do not known - but that is not Nokias fault. Please wait on the rep owner to explain (if he likes to). And since I'm that that rep owner is not Quim you can neither blaim him or Nokia. If this was a fault of someone in this case it was the fault of parts of the community. This is getting me angry. If you want kismet do your port and put it into extras yourself. There was not includes kismet on your product package I'm sure of. Please explain in simple words what you expect of Nokia in this case. Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Re: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
2008/11/21 Tim Teulings [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want kismet do your port and put it into extras yourself. There was not includes kismet on your product package I'm sure of. Hi Tim, I think you're going the wrong way... Salut, Sebas. PD: Should Nokia place an advertising in their Tablets' casing like: Do not use unless you're an experienced programmer or... Do not expect anything but browsing the Web (without any JAVA experience, don't forget that point) unless you're an experienced programmer ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Aw: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
A couple comments on this subject. First, it doesn't do anyone any good to attack the messengers or worker bees regardless of what their involvement with the tablets is. Stuff happens, stuff gets noticed and brought to attention, stuff gets corrected. No one is intentionally screwing things up. Most of this is about how everyone in this community is comes from different perspectives that don't always see things from everyone else's perspective. Consolidation -- It's fine with endusers like me if repositories are consolidated. Perhaps it would help if Nokia offered some sort of incentive, like low priced/free units and alpha/beta testing for developers using the Maemo system for their development and repositories. End-user considerations -- There needs to be a smooth way to redirect updating of outside repositories to the consolidated/changed repositories so end users get their updating done smoothly and without hassles. This would seem to require inclusion of some sort of cleanup process in App Manager for redirected repositories. Those out of the 'loop' are likely end up with all sorts of abandoned/screwed up repositories, with negative side effects that don't help anyone. If app is moved from repo YYY to reop ZZZ, app manager needs to be able to sort this out without dragging endusers too deep into the wonderful world of maemo/debian linux hunting down moved repos and apps. As it is, App Manager seems a rather crude work in progress that displays the crudest information during the updating process -- it doesn't even say what repository catalog is being updated during the update process. Tim Teulings wrote: Hallo! As one of the people that had shutdown his own repository as response to mentioned request to consolidate I can assure that such request was very polite, I was never forced and every help was promised (which I did not need) and no timeline was given. We never talked about the actual contents of my repository. I fact I'm of the opinion that such aproach goes into the direction. So please wait until the owner of the now closed repository speaks up to clearify. Note that Nokia regarding this aspect is not Apple. Please calm down and let the facts speak. Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1803 - Release Date: 11/21/2008 9:37 AM ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Aw: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 2:51 PM, lakestevensdental [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Consolidation -- It's fine with endusers like me if repositories are consolidated. Perhaps it would help if Nokia offered some sort of incentive, like low priced/free units and alpha/beta testing for developers using the Maemo system for their development and repositories. End-user considerations -- There needs to be a smooth way to redirect updating of outside repositories to the consolidated/changed repositories so end users get their updating done smoothly and without hassles. This would seem to require inclusion of some sort of cleanup process in App Manager for redirected repositories. Those out of the 'loop' are likely end up with all sorts of abandoned/screwed up repositories, with negative side effects that don't help anyone. If app is moved from repo YYY to reop ZZZ, app manager needs to be able to sort this out without dragging endusers too deep into the wonderful world of maemo/debian linux hunting down moved repos and apps. As it is, App Manager seems a rather crude work in progress that displays the crudest information during the updating process -- it doesn't even say what repository catalog is being updated during the update process. I also have to point out that the maemo site is always incredibly slow, which can't possibly help any of these situations. It doesn't matter whether I'm on my home desktop, my N800 on WiFi, or a school machine on a very fast network, it always takes forever for pages on the maemo site to be served, and frequently it times out first. Even when pages do load, frequently there are elements missing. If the repositories are similarly affected, that could create havoc with anyone trying to update them. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Mark wrote: The bottom line is that there are some serious problems in the way that Nokia has and continues to approach the ITs and support for them. Until they not only acknowledge that but address it realistically, they are going to have to deal with the occasional attack. Get used to it! If we customers are going to have to live with the everpresent disappointment of devices that aren't coming anywhere near to living up to their hype or potential, then you're going to have to get used to the occasional complaint or rant. That's how it works. What saddens me about this is that we have seen it all before in the Sharp Zaurus field and no-one (not vendors, developers, supporters, nor users) seems to have learned from history. Nokia have behaved infinitely more responsibly than Sharp ever did, but the arguments over FOSS or non-FOSS, broken repos, and selection of software are almost identical. These things upset people, very clearly, but we live in an imperfect world, and the best thing to do is try and maintain a dialogue at all times. No-one is trying to breach Nokia's business-plan security, just as no-one is trying to force FOSS champions to forsake their principles, but dialogue means providing information -- both ways. I'm just a user. I can't fix bugs or contribute upgrades. My N800 has given (and continues to give) excellent service, and maybe one day I'll be able to afford an N810 or whatever replaces it, but in the meantime, it would be nice if we could avoid repeating history. ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Aw: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Mark wrote: I also have to point out that the maemo site is always incredibly slow, which can't possibly help any of these situations. It doesn't matter whether I'm on my home desktop, my N800 on WiFi, or a school machine on a very fast network, it always takes forever for pages on the maemo site to be served, and frequently it times out first. Even when pages do load, frequently there are elements missing. If the repositories are similarly affected, that could create havoc with anyone trying to update them. I must admit I don't have this problem, either at home or at work. ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Wow, I'm impressed at how much FUD-spewing sans-facts is going on in this thread. Bravo. So, let me set a few things straight: First, there is ABSOLUTELY no conspiracy involved. Eko1 was not singled out because it contained a pen-testing tool, in fact, it wasn't singled out at all. Niels has sent a _lot_ of emails to 3rd- party repository owners to get them to move their packages to Extras and close their repositories.[1][2] Eko1 happened to choose to do this in a slightly more user-hostile way than most by simply closing the repository and not moving many of the packages to Extras. If you'd really like me to prove there's no conspiracy, I'll have qwerty12 upload all of his fun little hacker tools to Extras-devel tomorrow. So, you know who the blame is on for not moving their packages before they close the repository? The repository owner. Not Nokia, not anybody from maemo.org that made a request, but the repository owner who, for whatever reason, decided not to move their packages to Extras. Clearly transitions like these can cause some short-term instability that makes things harder for specific individuals, but the overall effect for the community, and the long-term effect for everybody is an environment with lots of high-quality, easy-to-install packages available from right when you take your new device out of the box and open up the Application Manager (Extras will hopefully come enabled by default with Maemo 5).[3] Second, it is exactly BECAUSE of situations like this one (packages and repositories just disappearing with users being left out in the cold) that the _Maemo Community_ (note, non of this had anything AT ALL to do with Nokia) decided that _we_ wanted to make Extras the centralized repository for community packages and applications.[4] If packages are in maemo.org, they're more accessible, come with a higher level of quality assurance, and more likely to remain available in the long term. Third, Extras has nothing at all to do with Nokia, it is controlled by the Maemo Community (i.e., all of you) as a part of maemo.org. Nokia doesn't have a say in what's allowed into Extras (excepting clearly illegal or copyright-violating packages--Nokia's Maemo's Quim's Package of Pure Evil would clearly not be an acceptable title--but there haven't been any of those yet). Ultimate responsibility falls on the Maemo Community, and, perhaps, the Maemo Community Council, not Nokia. I've said my piece, but clearly this thread isn't headed anywhere useful, so you guys can take it or leave it. I'd prefer to see some sense and reasonability come back into the discussion, and I'd be happy to discuss specifics with you if it does, but for until that point. . . . Some light reading for those of you that are just guessing and spewing FUD instead of looking at the facts: [1]https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras [2]https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories [3]https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras_repository_process_definition [4]https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Consolidation_of_Extras -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Aw: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Mark wrote: I also have to point out that the maemo site is always incredibly slow, which can't possibly help any of these situations. It doesn't matter whether I'm on my home desktop, my N800 on WiFi, or a school machine on a very fast network, it always takes forever for pages on the maemo site to be served, and frequently it times out first. Even when pages do load, frequently there are elements missing. If the repositories are similarly affected, that could create havoc with anyone trying to update them. Ditto on the observation of poor Maemo server speed. There's the likely reality that the most common device accessing the Maemo site is an internet tablet, which has a modestly limited speed of browsing and downloading compared to the average box. 1000 internet tablets accessing a site are probably are the equivalent load of perhaps 3000 or more regular machines on reasonably equal internet lines. It would be nice if the tablet came with a user installable speed upgrade... The ASUS eee and netbooks in general have gone from .6 to 1.6Gs, while internet tablets poke along at .4G. Fast a couple years ago, slow now. Plus, everyone gets a nice blinking screen icon when there's an repo update to download, which drives a lot of folks to do downloads around the same time period, bogging the system down... The server stuff would seem to be relatively fixable with mirror sites and larger server pipes... If there's the will to upgrade to improve service. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: App-Manager failure (was: Re: Aw: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On Nov 21, 2008, at 5:51 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: lakestevensdental wrote: As it is, App Manager seems a rather crude work in progress that displays the crudest information during the updating process -- it doesn't even say what repository catalog is being updated during the update process. Has anyone any idea where to start? Yes, upgrade to Diablo, it has a much more useful Application Manager. :) If that's not an option, running apt-get update as root in xterm will give you more verbose errors (I'm not sure if the Bora Application Manager included logs, but you might poke around its menu a bit). -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Peter Flynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark wrote: The bottom line is that there are some serious problems in the way that Nokia has and continues to approach the ITs and support for them. Until they not only acknowledge that but address it realistically, they are going to have to deal with the occasional attack. Get used to it! If we customers are going to have to live with the everpresent disappointment of devices that aren't coming anywhere near to living up to their hype or potential, then you're going to have to get used to the occasional complaint or rant. That's how it works. What saddens me about this is that we have seen it all before in the Sharp Zaurus field and no-one (not vendors, developers, supporters, nor users) seems to have learned from history. ...and the Psion Series 5 and up, and the Agenda VR3, and probably many other cases... Sometimes I think the old saying would be more accurate if it were reworded those who know history are doomed to repeat it. In many cases, people seem to look at it like hey, they got away with it, surely I can too and gloss over the ending and/or the rest of the picture... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Aw: Re: the hell of Maemo repos
On Nov 21, 2008, at 5:59 PM, lakestevensdental wrote: Mark wrote: I also have to point out that the maemo site is always incredibly slow, which can't possibly help any of these situations. It doesn't matter whether I'm on my home desktop, my N800 on WiFi, or a school machine on a very fast network, it always takes forever for pages on the maemo site to be served, and frequently it times out first. Even when pages do load, frequently there are elements missing. If the repositories are similarly affected, that could create havoc with anyone trying to update them. Ditto on the observation of poor Maemo server speed. The server improvements are still ongoing (which Bergie and that Niels character you guys seem to hate so much have been putting an insane amount of work into).[1] In fact, the first major fruits of those efforts went live just on Monday.[2] . . . and, no, the repositories are not similarly affected. repository.maemo.org has a massive akamai cache that keeps it running quickly. [1]https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Fast_Server [2]http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/maemo-org_goes_ragnaroek/ -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
Mark Haury wrote: Everybody who owns one of these tablets is not a developer. according to original poster he was after Kismet. That is not a toy your average user would install. He did know what he was asking for. He did know about etiquette on ML and he should've checked the facts before accusing people. Mark, you didn't help the cause - you've inflamed issue too. Sorry, that's the sad truth. I'm involved to a different degree with different Linux and *BSD distributions (porting applications and such) and My first reaction was exactly like Ryan's: why didn't you ask repo owner? Seriously - having no affiliations with Nokia and being far from delusional about Nokia's goals (like any other company) I think that this flame-ball was rolling out for nothing. Eko was responsible for providing service to community. Eko was the one who delivered package in the first place. Eko decided to take it offline without much comment or advising substitute solutions. You SHOULD BE ASKING EKO. Fact that nobody else has a mirror of eko's content is a fault of ... wait for it EKO. I've got my issues with Maemo and Nokia's handling of the platform, but this one has nothing to do with Nokia. It is clearly repo owner's fault/mistake/responsibility. I wouldn't be surprised if repo owner took message from Nokia (no matter how polite it was written) for cease and desist message give the fact that his native tongue is polish. Here, I'll ask him for you to get information about why did he not move contents of his repo to Extras. I'll report later with his response. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: the hell of Maemo repos
sebastian maemo wrote: Yes, I was a bit stressed maybe because every semester I have the same problem when I happen to reflash my Nokia 770 and am unable to find the fucking packages I need for my fucking unusable tablet... Sorry about that and my stressed unpolite fucking language... first of all: why do you reflash your 770? Ever since I've got my 800 I have reflashed it exactly once - to get Diablo. Is there some specific requirement of 770 to reflash it so often? Is that because of the fact that pre-diablo systems can't be upgraded without reflash? Secondly: you seem to know which packages you want/like/use. Why don't you have them handy someplace safe? every linux system I own (which is much more than one) has a cache of packages I have installed currently in one form or another so that in case my system/internet/something else goes in flames - I can rebuild safely. You reflash your device - you know you will need packages you have installed currently, why do you not keep copy of them? You seem like an advanced kind of person. It's a common sense, considering you've ran into that problem before. Instead of accusing Nokia I would suggest to go to the source of the problem and ask repo maintainers for reasons why repo has disappeared and what are the alternative solutions if any. Just going around and blaming the biggest elephant in the zoo is not going to bring back to life your goat that escaped over the fence. Yes, situation with repos is a Zoo and Nokia is the biggest animal there so it is convenient to yell at them at all times, but not always is it their fault. I'm an N800 user. I shot my foot off on more than one occasion just because I've decided to get adventurous and include or enable something Nokia has very little (if any) control over. Would I want Nokia to seize control and protect me from myself? No. I want to be able to screw up and learn from it. What you're asking is for Nokia to take full controll. No apples here thankyouverymuch. I like my eco-system exactly the way it is. Repos are responsible for their content and are should answer to their users. Nokia is (as a repo owner) reponsible for content in it's *own* repos and it should remain that way. I applaud their effort consolidating repos, however I don't expect that Nokia will have all repos consolidated. And *that* is up to repo owners. Repo owner took repo offline - ask them. P.S. Sorry for intermixing Nokia and Maemo.org - for simplicity of the argument I think it's quite obvious what I'm trying to say. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
