Re: Recording calls

[Craig Woodward]

I had no issues, but I know I had a similar issue with the first devel item I 
installed.  (I needed a python-conic, which was only in devel, but was 
off-version. :P  I didn't have it with recaller, though I did have to reboot 
before it widget showed up on the screen?

I do like the functionality, but have to say having it on the phone app screen 
would rock. :)  I'll play with a it a little more over the next day or two 
though and let you know what I think.  Awesome from what I've seen so far!



 Hartti Suomela  wrote: 

=
I still had problems with installing this though App Manager (it was
complaining about the same thing even though I refreshed the app catalogs)
However I succeeded in installing the required packages manually (recaller +
one missing python module)

Works great, thanks!

I would make the button a little bigger to be easier to tap on, though.
And if that button would be available directly in the Phone UI, that would
be just perfect :-)

Hartti

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Thomas Wälti  wrote:

> OK, build 2 up and installable through the App Manager
>
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 07:57, Thomas Waelti  wrote:
> > Yeah, saw that too right now after waking up. I've now uploaded a 2nd
> build with a minuscule P...
> > That's what -devel is for :-)
> > -Tom
> >
> >
> >> I am having problems installing "recaller". App manager says
> "Application packages missing: Python-dbus(>=0.83.0-1maemo3)"I have python
> installed on the device including that same version of python-dbus package.
> To be sure of it, I installed it again from extras-devel repository.
> >>
> >>
> >> Is the capitalization the problem here? Has someone successfully
> installed the app?
> >>
> >>
> >> Hartti
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Thomas Waelti 
> wrote:
> >>> I have now uploaded my "recaller" widget to the autobuilder, it built
> OK and should show up in extras-devel during the next hours (IF the servers
> work again - I have 0.2.0 of sleeper still not showing up in the package
> interface after 2 hours in the queue).
> >>
> >>> The widget is encoding in AAC stereo right now at 128 kBit - this takes
> about 1 MB per minute in very good quality. Probably overkill, but the 27 GB
> in MyDcos give you 460h of recording time, so everything has become a bit
> relative on a monster like the N900 :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>> And yes, the widget can also be used as a simple recorder/dictaphone.
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> -Tom
>

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Re: Recording calls

[Hartti Suomela]

I still had problems with installing this though App Manager (it was
complaining about the same thing even though I refreshed the app catalogs)
However I succeeded in installing the required packages manually (recaller +
one missing python module)

Works great, thanks!

I would make the button a little bigger to be easier to tap on, though.
And if that button would be available directly in the Phone UI, that would
be just perfect :-)

Hartti

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Thomas Wälti  wrote:

> OK, build 2 up and installable through the App Manager
>
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 07:57, Thomas Waelti  wrote:
> > Yeah, saw that too right now after waking up. I've now uploaded a 2nd
> build with a minuscule P...
> > That's what -devel is for :-)
> > -Tom
> >
> >
> >> I am having problems installing "recaller". App manager says
> "Application packages missing: Python-dbus(>=0.83.0-1maemo3)"I have python
> installed on the device including that same version of python-dbus package.
> To be sure of it, I installed it again from extras-devel repository.
> >>
> >>
> >> Is the capitalization the problem here? Has someone successfully
> installed the app?
> >>
> >>
> >> Hartti
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Thomas Waelti 
> wrote:
> >>> I have now uploaded my "recaller" widget to the autobuilder, it built
> OK and should show up in extras-devel during the next hours (IF the servers
> work again - I have 0.2.0 of sleeper still not showing up in the package
> interface after 2 hours in the queue).
> >>
> >>> The widget is encoding in AAC stereo right now at 128 kBit - this takes
> about 1 MB per minute in very good quality. Probably overkill, but the 27 GB
> in MyDcos give you 460h of recording time, so everything has become a bit
> relative on a monster like the N900 :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>> And yes, the widget can also be used as a simple recorder/dictaphone.
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> -Tom
>
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Re: Recording calls

[Nelson Ferreira]

It does work, and runs the stock Palm apps fine.
Still have not found the time to install the other Palm apps I still cling to

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 12:00, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Thomas Wälti  wrote:
>> It literally took the Palm YEARS to get a call recorder.
>> It took the N900 weeks (days :-) to get a call recorder - dictaphone -
>> FM radio recorder - Internet radio recorder - Flash TV recorder, in
>> AAC 128 kbps Stereo :-)
>>
>> Happy hacking - the N900 rocks!
>> -Tom
>
> Has anyone managed to install the Garnet VM beta 5 on the N900?.
> I'm just curious if it works, as the Access Software page only
> mentions N800 and N810 tablets...
>
> FC
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Re: Recording calls

[Fernando Cassia]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Thomas Wälti  wrote:
> It literally took the Palm YEARS to get a call recorder.
> It took the N900 weeks (days :-) to get a call recorder - dictaphone -
> FM radio recorder - Internet radio recorder - Flash TV recorder, in
> AAC 128 kbps Stereo :-)
>
> Happy hacking - the N900 rocks!
> -Tom

Has anyone managed to install the Garnet VM beta 5 on the N900?.
I'm just curious if it works, as the Access Software page only
mentions N800 and N810 tablets...

FC
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Re: Recording calls

[Thomas Wälti]

It literally took the Palm YEARS to get a call recorder.
It took the N900 weeks (days :-) to get a call recorder - dictaphone -
FM radio recorder - Internet radio recorder - Flash TV recorder, in
AAC 128 kbps Stereo :-)

Happy hacking - the N900 rocks!
-Tom

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 15:50, Fernando Cassia  wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Hartti Suomela  wrote:
>> There is a brainstrom on this
>> http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/call_recording/
>> and a related talk.maemo.org discussion thread
>> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33296
>> on page 5 there are some instructions on how to do this from command line.
>> I am not aware of an app for this yet
>> Hartti
>
> And while Nokia "brainstorms", the venerable old Palm OS has had one
> for years...
>
> http://www.mrgadget.com.au/gadget/2009/how-to-record-telephone-conversations-on-your-palm/
> http://mobilesoftware.mrgadget.com.au/product.asp?id=1962&n=CallRec
>
> Sorry, coudn´t resist...
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Re: Recording calls

[Fernando Cassia]

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Hartti Suomela  wrote:
> There is a brainstrom on this
> http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/call_recording/
> and a related talk.maemo.org discussion thread
> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33296
> on page 5 there are some instructions on how to do this from command line.
> I am not aware of an app for this yet
> Hartti

And while Nokia "brainstorms", the venerable old Palm OS has had one
for years...

http://www.mrgadget.com.au/gadget/2009/how-to-record-telephone-conversations-on-your-palm/
http://mobilesoftware.mrgadget.com.au/product.asp?id=1962&n=CallRec

Sorry, coudn´t resist...

I still think a Linux based OS with backwards PalmOS compatibility
would have been superb. Too bad Nokia doesn´t have the vision to snap
Access Software as its Japanese management seems doomed

FC
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Re: Recording calls

[Xabier Rodriguez Calvar]

O Lun, 18-01-2010 ás 23:14 +0100, Thomas Waelti escribiu:
> I have now uploaded my "recaller" widget to the autobuilder, it built
>  OK and should show up in extras-devel during the next hours (IF the
>  servers work again - I have 0.2.0 of sleeper still not showing up in
>  the package interface after 2 hours in the queue).

I'd prefer it to be a program instead of a widget (or both), as I don't
like having such a widget for the the low (but some) use I'd make. Would
it be possible?

Br.

-- 
Xabier Rodríguez Calvar
Computer Engineer
IGALIA http://www.igalia.com


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Re: Recording calls

[Timo Pelkonen]

2010/1/19 Matan Ziv-Av 

> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Timo Pelkonen  wrote:
> > IMO *developer could* *wash his/hers hands* just by adding disclaimer to
> licence
> > conditions. Something like "make sure recording calls is legal before
> using
> > this software".
> >
> > but I'm not lawyer so this is uneducated guess. reasoned from the fact
> that
> > kitchen knives can be sold even after people are stabbed to death with
> few
> > of those sold...
>
> You mean like every image viewer has a warning that viewing some
> images might be illegal in some places?
>
> Or like every text editor has a warning that you should make sure that
> what you write is legal where you are?
>
>
>
> --
> Matan.
>

No, read what I wrote. Point bolded.

Ossipena / Timo
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Re: Recording calls

[Dave Neary]

Hi,

Matan Ziv-Av wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Timo Pelkonen  wrote:
>> IMO developer could was his/hers hands just by adding disclaimer to licence
>> conditions. Something like "make sure recording calls is legal before using
>> this software".
> 
> You mean like every image viewer has a warning that viewing some
> images might be illegal in some places?
> 
> Or like every text editor has a warning that you should make sure that
> what you write is legal where you are?

Be careful, in some countries it might be illegal to say things like that...

Dave.

-- 
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dne...@maemo.org
Jabber: bo...@jabber.org

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Re: Recording calls

[Thomas Wälti]

OK, build 2 up and installable through the App Manager

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 07:57, Thomas Waelti  wrote:
> Yeah, saw that too right now after waking up. I've now uploaded a 2nd build 
> with a minuscule P...
> That's what -devel is for :-)
> -Tom
>
>
>> I am having problems installing "recaller". App manager says "Application 
>> packages missing: Python-dbus(>=0.83.0-1maemo3)"I have python installed on 
>> the device including that same version of python-dbus package. To be sure of 
>> it, I installed it again from extras-devel repository.
>>
>>
>> Is the capitalization the problem here? Has someone successfully installed 
>> the app?
>>
>>
>> Hartti
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Thomas Waelti  wrote:
>>> I have now uploaded my "recaller" widget to the autobuilder, it built OK 
>>> and should show up in extras-devel during the next hours (IF the servers 
>>> work again - I have 0.2.0 of sleeper still not showing up in the package 
>>> interface after 2 hours in the queue).
>>
>>> The widget is encoding in AAC stereo right now at 128 kBit - this takes 
>>> about 1 MB per minute in very good quality. Probably overkill, but the 27 
>>> GB in MyDcos give you 460h of recording time, so everything has become a 
>>> bit relative on a monster like the N900 :-)
>>
>>
>>> And yes, the widget can also be used as a simple recorder/dictaphone.
>>
>> Best regards
>> -Tom
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Re: Recording calls

[Thomas Waelti]

Yeah, saw that too right now after waking up. I've now uploaded a 2nd build 
with a minuscule P...
That's what -devel is for :-)
-Tom


> I am having problems installing "recaller". App manager says "Application 
> packages missing: Python-dbus(>=0.83.0-1maemo3)"I have python installed on 
> the device including that same version of python-dbus package. To be sure of 
> it, I installed it again from extras-devel repository.
>
>
> Is the capitalization the problem here? Has someone successfully installed 
> the app?
>
>
> Hartti
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Thomas Waelti  wrote:
>> I have now uploaded my "recaller" widget to the autobuilder, it built OK and 
>> should show up in extras-devel during the next hours (IF the servers work 
>> again - I have 0.2.0 of sleeper still not showing up in the package 
>> interface after 2 hours in the queue).
>
>> The widget is encoding in AAC stereo right now at 128 kBit - this takes 
>> about 1 MB per minute in very good quality. Probably overkill, but the 27 GB 
>> in MyDcos give you 460h of recording time, so everything has become a bit 
>> relative on a monster like the N900 :-)
>
>
>> And yes, the widget can also be used as a simple recorder/dictaphone.
>
> Best regards
> -Tom
>>
>
>> Just one thought on this:
>>
>> Most people are going to do playback on the device.  I would focus on the 
>> best codec available for recording and playback on the N900.  If people want 
>> to use it some other place, maybe making an export function (for Wav or MP3 
>> or whatever) would suffice.  Worst case, make a selectable setting for which 
>> codec to use and let the user decide?
>
>> >
>> One idea:  Most phone conversations are mono.  Maybe a good strategy would 
>> be to record in stereo, with inbound on one channel and out-bound on the 
>> other?  It would make listening to it later interesting, since you could 
>> balance out one side or the other to catch pieces obscured by overlap?  
>> Would also help clarify who said what on a 2-party call at least.
>
>> >
>> What's the app/widget garage name?  Would love to load it up and take it for 
>> a test drive.  I miss this from my 6230, though I honestly don't use it 
>> often.  (Had a hot key for it to turn it on while driving in case there was 
>> something I needed to take note of for later.  Hard to take notes while 
>> driving. :)
>
>> >
>>  "Thomas Wälti"  wrote:
>>
>> =
>> The problem is to find a compromise between:
>> a) CPU/power usage
>> b) Encoding efficiency
>> c) Playback capability
>> d) API availability
>>
>> Due to a) and d), I'm only looking at the gstreamer encoders available
>> on the N900. Du to c) I have dropped the ANB and AWB codecs from
>> evaluation - I was unable to quickly find a standard software for
>> playback on Windows (e.g. WMP or VLC bot failed)
>>
>> Tonight, I'll try low bitrate AAC as it is probably a good compromise
>> between these factors. I will also try speex, as it's on the N900 by
>> default and technically ideally for encoding this kind of audio.
>> However, I'm not so sure about playback capability on Windows :-) Is
>> Speex on the N900 using the DSP? Because I guess that all NokiXXXenc
>> are, e.g. the AAC one.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Tom
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 09:37, Harri Haataja  wrote:
>>> 2010/1/14 Kahlil Johnson :
 On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
> Thomas Wälti wrote:
>> The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
>> method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
>> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be the
>> way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC
 What about a real free format like OGG vorbis?
>>>
>>> Um.. speex?
>
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Re: Recording calls

[Hartti Suomela]

I am having problems installing "recaller". App manager says "Application
packages missing: Python-dbus(>=0.83.0-1maemo3)"
I have python installed on the device including that same version of
python-dbus package. To be sure of it, I installed it again from
extras-devel repository.

Is the capitalization the problem here? Has someone successfully installed
the app?

Hartti

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Thomas Waelti  wrote:

> I have now uploaded my "recaller" widget to the autobuilder, it built OK
> and should show up in extras-devel during the next hours (IF the servers
> work again - I have 0.2.0 of sleeper still not showing up in the package
> interface after 2 hours in the queue).
> The widget is encoding in AAC stereo right now at 128 kBit - this takes
> about 1 MB per minute in very good quality. Probably overkill, but the 27 GB
> in MyDcos give you 460h of recording time, so everything has become a bit
> relative on a monster like the N900 :-)
>
> And yes, the widget can also be used as a simple recorder/dictaphone.
>
> Best regards
> -Tom
>
>
> > Just one thought on this:
> >
> > Most people are going to do playback on the device.  I would focus on the
> best codec available for recording and playback on the N900.  If people want
> to use it some other place, maybe making an export function (for Wav or MP3
> or whatever) would suffice.  Worst case, make a selectable setting for which
> codec to use and let the user decide?
> >
> > One idea:  Most phone conversations are mono.  Maybe a good strategy
> would be to record in stereo, with inbound on one channel and out-bound on
> the other?  It would make listening to it later interesting, since you could
> balance out one side or the other to catch pieces obscured by overlap?
>  Would also help clarify who said what on a 2-party call at least.
> >
> > What's the app/widget garage name?  Would love to load it up and take it
> for a test drive.  I miss this from my 6230, though I honestly don't use it
> often.  (Had a hot key for it to turn it on while driving in case there was
> something I needed to take note of for later.  Hard to take notes while
> driving. :)
> >
> >  "Thomas Wälti"  wrote:
> >
> > =
> > The problem is to find a compromise between:
> > a) CPU/power usage
> > b) Encoding efficiency
> > c) Playback capability
> > d) API availability
> >
> > Due to a) and d), I'm only looking at the gstreamer encoders available
> > on the N900. Du to c) I have dropped the ANB and AWB codecs from
> > evaluation - I was unable to quickly find a standard software for
> > playback on Windows (e.g. WMP or VLC bot failed)
> >
> > Tonight, I'll try low bitrate AAC as it is probably a good compromise
> > between these factors. I will also try speex, as it's on the N900 by
> > default and technically ideally for encoding this kind of audio.
> > However, I'm not so sure about playback capability on Windows :-) Is
> > Speex on the N900 using the DSP? Because I guess that all NokiXXXenc
> > are, e.g. the AAC one.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Tom
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 09:37, Harri Haataja 
> wrote:
> >> 2010/1/14 Kahlil Johnson :
> >>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
>  Thomas Wälti wrote:
> > The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
> > method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
> > http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be
> the
> > way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC
> >>> What about a real free format like OGG vorbis?
> >>
> >> Um.. speex?
>
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Re: Recording calls

[Matan Ziv-Av]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Timo Pelkonen  wrote:
> IMO developer could was his/hers hands just by adding disclaimer to licence
> conditions. Something like "make sure recording calls is legal before using
> this software".
>
> but I'm not lawyer so this is uneducated guess. reasoned from the fact that
> kitchen knives can be sold even after people are stabbed to death with few
> of those sold...

You mean like every image viewer has a warning that viewing some
images might be illegal in some places?

Or like every text editor has a warning that you should make sure that
what you write is legal where you are?



-- 
Matan.
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Re: Recording calls

[Thomas Waelti]

I have now uploaded my "recaller" widget to the autobuilder, it built OK and 
should show up in extras-devel during the next hours (IF the servers work again 
- I have 0.2.0 of sleeper still not showing up in the package interface after 2 
hours in the queue).
The widget is encoding in AAC stereo right now at 128 kBit - this takes about 1 
MB per minute in very good quality. Probably overkill, but the 27 GB in MyDcos 
give you 460h of recording time, so everything has become a bit relative on a 
monster like the N900 :-)

And yes, the widget can also be used as a simple recorder/dictaphone.

Best regards
-Tom


> Just one thought on this:
>
> Most people are going to do playback on the device.  I would focus on the 
> best codec available for recording and playback on the N900.  If people want 
> to use it some other place, maybe making an export function (for Wav or MP3 
> or whatever) would suffice.  Worst case, make a selectable setting for which 
> codec to use and let the user decide?
>
> One idea:  Most phone conversations are mono.  Maybe a good strategy would be 
> to record in stereo, with inbound on one channel and out-bound on the other?  
> It would make listening to it later interesting, since you could balance out 
> one side or the other to catch pieces obscured by overlap?  Would also help 
> clarify who said what on a 2-party call at least.
>
> What's the app/widget garage name?  Would love to load it up and take it for 
> a test drive.  I miss this from my 6230, though I honestly don't use it 
> often.  (Had a hot key for it to turn it on while driving in case there was 
> something I needed to take note of for later.  Hard to take notes while 
> driving. :)
>
>  "Thomas Wälti"  wrote:
>
> =
> The problem is to find a compromise between:
> a) CPU/power usage
> b) Encoding efficiency
> c) Playback capability
> d) API availability
>
> Due to a) and d), I'm only looking at the gstreamer encoders available
> on the N900. Du to c) I have dropped the ANB and AWB codecs from
> evaluation - I was unable to quickly find a standard software for
> playback on Windows (e.g. WMP or VLC bot failed)
>
> Tonight, I'll try low bitrate AAC as it is probably a good compromise
> between these factors. I will also try speex, as it's on the N900 by
> default and technically ideally for encoding this kind of audio.
> However, I'm not so sure about playback capability on Windows :-) Is
> Speex on the N900 using the DSP? Because I guess that all NokiXXXenc
> are, e.g. the AAC one.
>
>
> Thanks
> -Tom
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 09:37, Harri Haataja  wrote:
>> 2010/1/14 Kahlil Johnson :
>>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
 Thomas Wälti wrote:
> The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
> method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be the
> way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC
>>> What about a real free format like OGG vorbis?
>>
>> Um.. speex?

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Re: Recording calls

[Craig Woodward]

Just one thought on this:

Most people are going to do playback on the device.  I would focus on the best 
codec available for recording and playback on the N900.  If people want to use 
it some other place, maybe making an export function (for Wav or MP3 or 
whatever) would suffice.  Worst case, make a selectable setting for which codec 
to use and let the user decide?

One idea:  Most phone conversations are mono.  Maybe a good strategy would be 
to record in stereo, with inbound on one channel and out-bound on the other?  
It would make listening to it later interesting, since you could balance out 
one side or the other to catch pieces obscured by overlap?  Would also help 
clarify who said what on a 2-party call at least.

What's the app/widget garage name?  Would love to load it up and take it for a 
test drive.  I miss this from my 6230, though I honestly don't use it often.  
(Had a hot key for it to turn it on while driving in case there was something I 
needed to take note of for later.  Hard to take notes while driving. :)

 "Thomas Wälti"  wrote: 

=
The problem is to find a compromise between:
a) CPU/power usage
b) Encoding efficiency
c) Playback capability
d) API availability

Due to a) and d), I'm only looking at the gstreamer encoders available
on the N900. Du to c) I have dropped the ANB and AWB codecs from
evaluation - I was unable to quickly find a standard software for
playback on Windows (e.g. WMP or VLC bot failed)

Tonight, I'll try low bitrate AAC as it is probably a good compromise
between these factors. I will also try speex, as it's on the N900 by
default and technically ideally for encoding this kind of audio.
However, I'm not so sure about playback capability on Windows :-) Is
Speex on the N900 using the DSP? Because I guess that all NokiXXXenc
are, e.g. the AAC one.


Thanks
-Tom

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 09:37, Harri Haataja  wrote:
> 2010/1/14 Kahlil Johnson :
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
>>> Thomas Wälti wrote:
 The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
 method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be the
 way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC
>> What about a real free format like OGG vorbis?
>
> Um.. speex?
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Re: Recording calls

[Hartti Suomela]

Some guidance (very limited though) from Wikipedia on the legal aspects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws

Hartti

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:14 PM, sebastian maemo
wrote:

> 2010/1/14 Kevin T. Neely 
>
> Recording conversations is a useful tool, but also illegal or highly
>> regulated in many jurisdictions, so that might deter developers somewhat.
>>
>
> I'm not a lawyer... but I think you're wrong (in general).
>
> Of course, laws depend very much on the country you live... but IMHO
> recording a conversation in YOUR own phone is perfectly legal and you don't
> need to warn anybody about it, because you are recording YOUR
> conversation...
>
> What is completely illegal is to record conversations of other people, or
> even making illegal use of your own conversations when other people is
> involved...
>
> That's MHO and I'm not a lawyer :-P
>
>
> --
> Salut,
> Sebas
>
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Re: Recording calls

[Paul Hartman]

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Craig Woodward  wrote:
> In any case, this is not new territory for phones in general or for Nokia.  
> Several Nokia
> phones have had the ability to record conversations.  My Nokia 6230i has the 
> ability to
> record calls, but for "legal notification reasons" emits a muted beep/tone 
> every 5
> seconds while it's recording.  The tone is at about 10% of the volume of the 
> call and
>lasts 1/2 second, every 5 seconds.

In Symbian phones there are many call recorder apps, including the
ability to disable the warning beep (since it's not required in all
places, as you described). Recording into various formats (AMR seems
preferred for voice since it has a very small size). And features like
auto-uploading your conversations to a FTP/web server for later
reference, rather than storing all only on the phone.
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Re: Recording calls

[Thomas Wälti]

The problem is to find a compromise between:
a) CPU/power usage
b) Encoding efficiency
c) Playback capability
d) API availability

Due to a) and d), I'm only looking at the gstreamer encoders available
on the N900. Du to c) I have dropped the ANB and AWB codecs from
evaluation - I was unable to quickly find a standard software for
playback on Windows (e.g. WMP or VLC bot failed)

Tonight, I'll try low bitrate AAC as it is probably a good compromise
between these factors. I will also try speex, as it's on the N900 by
default and technically ideally for encoding this kind of audio.
However, I'm not so sure about playback capability on Windows :-) Is
Speex on the N900 using the DSP? Because I guess that all NokiXXXenc
are, e.g. the AAC one.


Thanks
-Tom

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 09:37, Harri Haataja  wrote:
> 2010/1/14 Kahlil Johnson :
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
>>> Thomas Wälti wrote:
 The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
 method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be the
 way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC
>> What about a real free format like OGG vorbis?
>
> Um.. speex?
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Re: Recording calls

[Xabier Rodriguez Calvar]

O Sáb, 16-01-2010 ás 04:14 +0100, sebastian maemo escribiu:
> Of course, laws depend very much on the country you live... but IMHO
> recording a conversation in YOUR own phone is perfectly legal and you
> don't need to warn anybody about it, because you are recording YOUR
> conversation... 

In Spain you have to warn the other person about it and that's why
everytime you call a call center they warn you about they might be
recording it.

Br.

-- 
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Computer Engineer
IGALIA http://www.igalia.com


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Re: Recording calls

[Harri Haataja]

2010/1/14 Kahlil Johnson :
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
>> Thomas Wälti wrote:
>>> The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
>>> method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
>>> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be the
>>> way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC
> What about a real free format like OGG vorbis?

Um.. speex?


-- 
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apologise for any failure in my part in trying to make it do the right
thing with post formatting.
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Re: Recording calls

[Thomas Waelti]

I will do that this way in my upcoming "recaller" call recording widget. You 
have a number of ways in maemo to do postinstall notifications, and one way 
makes the user actively "accept" a message (normally used for licencing 
agreements).

The widget features a single button on the homescreen to start/stop recording. 
It works really well, but I still need an evening or two to finetune (encoding, 
channels, appearance) before I can release an alpha.

Happy hacking - the N900 rocks!
-Tom




> 2010/1/16 Craig Woodward 
>>
>> I know the legality of recording calls varies greatly in many countries.  In 
>> the US where I live it varies from state to state not only if you may record 
>> calls, but if those recordings may be published or used for legal purposes 
>> in a court of law.  In general in the US you need to be a known participant 
>> in the call, and in some states that's enough, in others you need to inform 
>> some or all parties that the call is being recorded.
>
>
>> In any case, this is not new territory for phones in general or for Nokia.  
>> Several Nokia phones have had the ability to record conversations.  My Nokia 
>> 6230i has the ability to record calls, but for "legal notification reasons" 
>> emits a muted beep/tone every 5 seconds while it's recording.  The tone is 
>> at about 10% of the volume of the call and lasts 1/2 second, every 5 seconds.
>
>
>> In any case, I doubt any country would have laws that would punish a 
>> developer for making an application for the phone.  Rather most laws would 
>> target the person who installed and/or used the application in a way that 
>> did not conform with local laws.
>
>
>>  sebastian maemo  wrote:
>
> =
>
>> 2010/1/14 Kevin T. Neely 
>
>> Recording conversations is a useful tool, but also illegal or highly
>> regulated in many jurisdictions, so that might deter developers somewhat.
>>
>
> I'm not a lawyer... but I think you're wrong (in general).
>
> Of course, laws depend very much on the country you live... but IMHO
> recording a conversation in YOUR own phone is perfectly legal and you don't
> need to warn anybody about it, because you are recording YOUR
> conversation...
>
> What is completely illegal is to record conversations of other people, or
> even making illegal use of your own conversations when other people is
> involved...
>
> That's MHO and I'm not a lawyer :-P
>
>
> --
> Salut,
> Sebas
>>
>
> IMO developer could was his/hers hands just by adding disclaimer to licence 
> conditions. Something like "make sure recording calls is legal before using 
> this software".
>
> but I'm not lawyer so this is uneducated guess. reasoned from the fact that 
> kitchen knives can be sold even after people are stabbed to death with few of 
> those sold...
>
> Ossipena / Timo
>  
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Re: Recording calls

[Timo Pelkonen]

2010/1/16 Craig Woodward 

> I know the legality of recording calls varies greatly in many countries.
>  In the US where I live it varies from state to state not only if you may
> record calls, but if those recordings may be published or used for legal
> purposes in a court of law.  In general in the US you need to be a known
> participant in the call, and in some states that's enough, in others you
> need to inform some or all parties that the call is being recorded.
>
> In any case, this is not new territory for phones in general or for Nokia.
>  Several Nokia phones have had the ability to record conversations.  My
> Nokia 6230i has the ability to record calls, but for "legal notification
> reasons" emits a muted beep/tone every 5 seconds while it's recording.  The
> tone is at about 10% of the volume of the call and lasts 1/2 second, every 5
> seconds.
>
> In any case, I doubt any country would have laws that would punish a
> developer for making an application for the phone.  Rather most laws would
> target the person who installed and/or used the application in a way that
> did not conform with local laws.
>
>
>  sebastian maemo  wrote:
>
> =
> 2010/1/14 Kevin T. Neely 
>
> > Recording conversations is a useful tool, but also illegal or highly
> > regulated in many jurisdictions, so that might deter developers somewhat.
> >
>
> I'm not a lawyer... but I think you're wrong (in general).
>
> Of course, laws depend very much on the country you live... but IMHO
> recording a conversation in YOUR own phone is perfectly legal and you don't
> need to warn anybody about it, because you are recording YOUR
> conversation...
>
> What is completely illegal is to record conversations of other people, or
> even making illegal use of your own conversations when other people is
> involved...
>
> That's MHO and I'm not a lawyer :-P
>
>
> --
> Salut,
> Sebas
>
>
IMO developer could was his/hers hands just by adding disclaimer to licence
conditions. Something like "make sure recording calls is legal before using
this software".

but I'm not lawyer so this is uneducated guess. reasoned from the fact that
kitchen knives can be sold even after people are stabbed to death with few
of those sold...

Ossipena / Timo
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Re: Recording calls

[Craig Woodward]

I know the legality of recording calls varies greatly in many countries.  In 
the US where I live it varies from state to state not only if you may record 
calls, but if those recordings may be published or used for legal purposes in a 
court of law.  In general in the US you need to be a known participant in the 
call, and in some states that's enough, in others you need to inform some or 
all parties that the call is being recorded.

In any case, this is not new territory for phones in general or for Nokia.  
Several Nokia phones have had the ability to record conversations.  My Nokia 
6230i has the ability to record calls, but for "legal notification reasons" 
emits a muted beep/tone every 5 seconds while it's recording.  The tone is at 
about 10% of the volume of the call and lasts 1/2 second, every 5 seconds.

In any case, I doubt any country would have laws that would punish a developer 
for making an application for the phone.  Rather most laws would target the 
person who installed and/or used the application in a way that did not conform 
with local laws.


 sebastian maemo  wrote: 

=
2010/1/14 Kevin T. Neely 

> Recording conversations is a useful tool, but also illegal or highly
> regulated in many jurisdictions, so that might deter developers somewhat.
>

I'm not a lawyer... but I think you're wrong (in general).

Of course, laws depend very much on the country you live... but IMHO
recording a conversation in YOUR own phone is perfectly legal and you don't
need to warn anybody about it, because you are recording YOUR
conversation...

What is completely illegal is to record conversations of other people, or
even making illegal use of your own conversations when other people is
involved...

That's MHO and I'm not a lawyer :-P


-- 
Salut,
Sebas

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Re: Recording calls

[sebastian maemo]

2010/1/14 Kevin T. Neely 

> Recording conversations is a useful tool, but also illegal or highly
> regulated in many jurisdictions, so that might deter developers somewhat.
>

I'm not a lawyer... but I think you're wrong (in general).

Of course, laws depend very much on the country you live... but IMHO
recording a conversation in YOUR own phone is perfectly legal and you don't
need to warn anybody about it, because you are recording YOUR
conversation...

What is completely illegal is to record conversations of other people, or
even making illegal use of your own conversations when other people is
involved...

That's MHO and I'm not a lawyer :-P


-- 
Salut,
Sebas
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Re: Recording calls

[Kahlil Johnson]

File a couple of bugs under the record application for ogg support:
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7989

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7990

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:
>
>
> Thomas Wälti wrote:
>> The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
>> method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
>> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be the
>> way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC

What about a real free format like OGG vorbis?

>> (or any other of Nokia Encoder better sutied for voice quality audio,
>> such as G.729 or AMR-NB).
>> Combine that with gst-python and we should have something up and
>> running in a few hours :-)

The explanation might not be clear enough so please submit comments to
polish the request. Also about GST, do we know if recorder use gst at
all?

>
> (pt... it's a wiki. Don't tell anyone)
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> maemo.org docsmaster
> Email: dne...@maemo.org
> Jabber: bo...@jabber.org
-- 
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"Ya tengo GMAIL!!"
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Re: Recording calls

[Dave Neary]

Thomas Wälti wrote:
> The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
> method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be the
> way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC
> (or any other of Nokia Encoder better sutied for voice quality audio,
> such as G.729 or AMR-NB).
> Combine that with gst-python and we should have something up and
> running in a few hours :-)

(pt... it's a wiki. Don't tell anyone)

Dave.

-- 
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dne...@maemo.org
Jabber: bo...@jabber.org

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Re: Recording calls

[Thomas Wälti]

The documented method looks really hacky, IMHO the gstreamer based
method of Zaheer Abbas Merali (gst guru par excellence :-) posted in
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=464494&postcount=50 should be the
way to go. Using nokiaaacenc, you could probably directly save as AAC
(or any other of Nokia Encoder better sutied for voice quality audio,
such as G.729 or AMR-NB).
Combine that with gst-python and we should have something up and
running in a few hours :-)

Happy hacking - Maemo rocks
-Tom


On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 14:33, Dave Neary  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Hartti Suomela wrote:
>> There is a brainstrom on this
>> http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/call_recording/
>> and a related talk.maemo.org  discussion thread
>> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33296
>>
>> on page 5 there are some instructions on how to do this from command line.
>
> I just extracted this to a wiki page:
> http://wiki.maemo.org/Recording_phonecalls
>
> It would be relatively straightforward to put a call recording front-end
> on what he's done here - ideally you'd have a .wav or .mp3 sink to
> concatenate input & output streams together and generate one file for
> the phone call.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave.
>
> --
> maemo.org docsmaster
> Email: dne...@maemo.org
> Jabber: bo...@jabber.org
>
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Re: Recording calls

[Dave Neary]

Hi,

Hartti Suomela wrote:
> There is a brainstrom on this
> http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/call_recording/
> and a related talk.maemo.org  discussion thread
> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33296
> 
> on page 5 there are some instructions on how to do this from command line.

I just extracted this to a wiki page:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Recording_phonecalls

It would be relatively straightforward to put a call recording front-end
on what he's done here - ideally you'd have a .wav or .mp3 sink to
concatenate input & output streams together and generate one file for
the phone call.

Cheers,
Dave.

-- 
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dne...@maemo.org
Jabber: bo...@jabber.org

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RE: Recording calls

[Aldon Hynes]

I've managed to record calls by starting the Recorder application and then
placing a call and putting it on Speaker phone.  It isn't a nicely
integrated app, and requires using the speaker, but it works well as a
temporary work around.

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: maemo-users-boun...@maemo.org
[mailto:maemo-users-boun...@maemo.org]on Behalf Of Kahlil Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:12 PM
To: Tablet Blog
Subject: Recording calls


anyone know about an app that can record my calls, I would love to
have something like that. I have it on my desktop for skype and is
perfect.

In my linux box I use this app http://atdot.ch/scr/
Having it somehow integrated on the Maemo phone app would be
groundbreaking. So far nobody in the mobile market have released these
apps and is so useful, nothing like forwarding a conversation to a
third party specially for businesses.

Any input would be cool, where can I push the idea to the developers?

--
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"Ya tengo GMAIL!!"
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Re: Recording calls

[Kahlil Johnson]

Well there are no universal laws, so you have to specify to which
country laws are you talking about. But there are already many tools
to record calls including server side SIP call recordings and call
centers also record their conversation (they do disclaim).

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Kevin T. Neely
 wrote:
> Recording conversations is a useful tool, but also illegal or highly
> regulated in many jurisdictions, so that might deter developers somewhat.
>
> K
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Hartti Suomela  wrote:
>>
>> There is a brainstrom on this
>> http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/call_recording/
>> and a related talk.maemo.org discussion thread
>> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33296
>> on page 5 there are some instructions on how to do this from command line.
>> I am not aware of an app for this yet
>> Hartti
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Kahlil Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> anyone know about an app that can record my calls, I would love to
>>> have something like that. I have it on my desktop for skype and is
>>> perfect.
>>>
>>> In my linux box I use this app http://atdot.ch/scr/
>>> Having it somehow integrated on the Maemo phone app would be
>>> groundbreaking. So far nobody in the mobile market have released these
>>> apps and is so useful, nothing like forwarding a conversation to a
>>> third party specially for businesses.
>>>
>>> Any input would be cool, where can I push the idea to the developers?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kahlil Johnson
>>> "Ya tengo GMAIL!!"
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> In Vino Veritas
> http://rubbernecking.info
>



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Re: Recording calls

[Kevin T. Neely]

Recording conversations is a useful tool, but also illegal or highly
regulated in many jurisdictions, so that might deter developers somewhat.

K

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Hartti Suomela  wrote:

> There is a brainstrom on this
> http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/call_recording/
> and a related talk.maemo.org discussion thread
> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33296
>
> on page 5 there are some instructions on how to do this from command line.
>
> I am not aware of an app for this yet
>
> Hartti
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Kahlil Johnson wrote:
>
>> anyone know about an app that can record my calls, I would love to
>> have something like that. I have it on my desktop for skype and is
>> perfect.
>>
>> In my linux box I use this app http://atdot.ch/scr/
>> Having it somehow integrated on the Maemo phone app would be
>> groundbreaking. So far nobody in the mobile market have released these
>> apps and is so useful, nothing like forwarding a conversation to a
>> third party specially for businesses.
>>
>> Any input would be cool, where can I push the idea to the developers?
>>
>> --
>> Kahlil Johnson
>> "Ya tengo GMAIL!!"
>> ___
>> maemo-users mailing list
>> maemo-users@maemo.org
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>>
>
>
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Re: Recording calls

[Hartti Suomela]

There is a brainstrom on this
http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/call_recording/
and a related talk.maemo.org discussion thread
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33296

on page 5 there are some instructions on how to do this from command line.

I am not aware of an app for this yet

Hartti

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Kahlil Johnson  wrote:

> anyone know about an app that can record my calls, I would love to
> have something like that. I have it on my desktop for skype and is
> perfect.
>
> In my linux box I use this app http://atdot.ch/scr/
> Having it somehow integrated on the Maemo phone app would be
> groundbreaking. So far nobody in the mobile market have released these
> apps and is so useful, nothing like forwarding a conversation to a
> third party specially for businesses.
>
> Any input would be cool, where can I push the idea to the developers?
>
> --
> Kahlil Johnson
> "Ya tengo GMAIL!!"
> ___
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>
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Recording calls

[Kahlil Johnson]

anyone know about an app that can record my calls, I would love to
have something like that. I have it on my desktop for skype and is
perfect.

In my linux box I use this app http://atdot.ch/scr/
Having it somehow integrated on the Maemo phone app would be
groundbreaking. So far nobody in the mobile market have released these
apps and is so useful, nothing like forwarding a conversation to a
third party specially for businesses.

Any input would be cool, where can I push the idea to the developers?

-- 
Kahlil Johnson
"Ya tengo GMAIL!!"
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