Re: Updates in red-pill mode
On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 03:30:22PM +0300, Eero Tamminen wrote: > Hi, > > ext Thomas Leavitt wrote: > > I will note, however, and I'm not entirely sure why, that with no > > applications running (other than the notice bar stuff at the top), my > > system consumes 60 megs of memory... I just got a new 2 gb MMC card, so > > I've enabled 64 mb of virtual memory (I had 24 before, on the 64 meg > > card, and I regularly ran it to 90% of total memory used). It doesn't > > seem reasonable to me that the OS would consume all available memory and > > leave nothing for applications, but I don't know if I've "customized" > > the thing enough that the memory usage profile is anomalous. > > How do you measure that it consumes 60 MB of memory? > (without swap, you should count it from /proc/meminfo: > MemTotal-MemFree-Buffers-Cached) > > What top & ps say to consume most memory? What extra processes > (ssh etc) you have running and do you have any (extra) Desktop applets > running? One annoying thing about the 'free' utility included in the image is that it doesn't show Cached (which is usually about 30 megs just after boot), so it appears that you've only got 1.4 megs free IIRC 'top' also omits Cached and gives the same misrepresentation. Marius Gedminas -- SamB: PHP's basic control structure is the "database timeout error". -- from Twisted.Quotes signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
Hi, ext Thomas Leavitt wrote: > I will note, however, and I'm not entirely sure why, that with no > applications running (other than the notice bar stuff at the top), my > system consumes 60 megs of memory... I just got a new 2 gb MMC card, so > I've enabled 64 mb of virtual memory (I had 24 before, on the 64 meg > card, and I regularly ran it to 90% of total memory used). It doesn't > seem reasonable to me that the OS would consume all available memory and > leave nothing for applications, but I don't know if I've "customized" > the thing enough that the memory usage profile is anomalous. How do you measure that it consumes 60 MB of memory? (without swap, you should count it from /proc/meminfo: MemTotal-MemFree-Buffers-Cached) What top & ps say to consume most memory? What extra processes (ssh etc) you have running and do you have any (extra) Desktop applets running? - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
"ext Thomas Leavitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I put my device in "red-pill" mode a while back... a short time > later, I noticed a number of "upgrades" and went ahead and installed > them, without making the connection (until afterwards)... this did > produce a "broken" package warning, revealed not by the Application > Manager, but by the Synaptic application, this was for one of the > main system library updates. Interesting. The Application Manager only shows packages that failed to unpack or configure as broken, it more or less assumes that all dependencies of the installed packages are satisfied. In what way was that library broken? You say below that a dependency was missing. Or did a maintainer script fail? > I fixed the dependency error by installing "ssh", How did you get that dependency error in the first place? The Application Manager should not ever allow them to creep up. > which the Application Manager insists has a lot of requirements and > conflicts with "busybox", but which Synaptic says is perfectly fine > to install on it's own. This is also interesting. What would "apt-get install" do? The Application Manager and apt-get install do not use the same algorithm to compute the updates. In general, the Application Manager will not do anything about conflicts (except reporting them and refusing to proceed, of course), but "apt-get install" will remove packages to find a solution. Synaptic probably does the same, right? The conflict reports produced by the Application Manager are not very good right now, unfortunately. I don't think ssh conflicts with busybox, for example. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
"ext Thomas Leavitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The device functioned just fine while it was in this "broken" state, > and just fine afterwards, so I doubt that doing updates in > "red-pill" mode, alone, is enough to brick the device... I suspect > there must be something else involved. Red-pill mode just makes more packages visible, it doesn't give any additional capabilities to packages. Thus, saying that "Red-pill mode will likely brick your device" really means "It is highly likely that the same repositories that contain desirable applications also contain packages that will brick your device, you just don't see them unless you are in red-pill mode." ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
I put my device in "red-pill" mode a while back... a short time later, I noticed a number of "upgrades" and went ahead and installed them, without making the connection (until afterwards)... this did produce a "broken" package warning, revealed not by the Application Manager, but by the Synaptic application, this was for one of the main system library updates. I fixed the dependency error by installing "ssh", which the Application Manager insists has a lot of requirements and conflicts with "busybox", but which Synaptic says is perfectly fine to install on it's own. The device functioned just fine while it was in this "broken" state, and just fine afterwards, so I doubt that doing updates in "red-pill" mode, alone, is enough to brick the device... I suspect there must be something else involved. Note: I'm a Unix/Linux geek from way back, and am using Ubuntu and apt in my day job, so I'm comfortable messing around with this stuff and fixing things if they break slightly. I haven't noticed any substantive difference in the performance or stability of my 770 one way or another... Opera still crashes fairly consistently (which is about the only problem I've seen). I will note, however, and I'm not entirely sure why, that with no applications running (other than the notice bar stuff at the top), my system consumes 60 megs of memory... I just got a new 2 gb MMC card, so I've enabled 64 mb of virtual memory (I had 24 before, on the 64 meg card, and I regularly ran it to 90% of total memory used). It doesn't seem reasonable to me that the OS would consume all available memory and leave nothing for applications, but I don't know if I've "customized" the thing enough that the memory usage profile is anomalous. Thomas Paul Dundas wrote: > I didn't think there was a warning about "red pill" mode on the Wiki, so > I added one to the red pill page: > http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationmanagerredpillmode/ > > That might flush out an official comment (or not). > > regards, > Paul > > > Ryan Pavlik wrote: > >> Updating in red pill mode is just asking to brick your device. I've >> heard of it happening almost every time. Use red pill mode as a >> temporary workaround for a single package, not as a way of life, no >> matter how much of a power user you are. The device just doesn't >> support it. >> >> Ryan >> >> Jonathan Greene wrote: >> >>> I can't answer that as I have nothing to do with software releases... >>> thats a Nokia / Maemo team question. I think you just need to tread >>> lightly with Red Pill mode knowing it's an official unofficial (or >>> perhaps unsupported) method of doing things. >>> >>> On 9/11/07, *Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Jonathan, >>> >>> Why then should there be patches to some of the OS 2006 files? Do >>> you mean that these patches could simply be experimental even >>> though they have a version later than the ones installed in the 770? >>> >>> Does anybody at Nokia releases patches to essential OS 2006 system >>> files which can be updated under red-pill mode? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Pedro >>> - Original message - >>> From: Jonathan Greene <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> To: Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> Cc: Maemo users mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org>> >>> Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007, 22:27:15 CEST >>> Subject: Re: Updates in red-pill mode >>> "Welcome to the Matrix" >>> >>> I don't think Red Pill mode is advised for general use or system >>> updates. >>> It's really more of a backdoor. I've used it to get Python to >>> install in >>> the past as it seems to get past the missing library error though >>> I'm not >>> sure that's so much of a good thing either. >>> >>> On 9/11/07, Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hello, >>> > >>> > I have realized that in red-pill mode a series of system patches are >>> > available for installing, e.g., patches fr browser
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
I didn't think there was a warning about "red pill" mode on the Wiki, so I added one to the red pill page: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationmanagerredpillmode/ That might flush out an official comment (or not). regards, Paul Ryan Pavlik wrote: > Updating in red pill mode is just asking to brick your device. I've > heard of it happening almost every time. Use red pill mode as a > temporary workaround for a single package, not as a way of life, no > matter how much of a power user you are. The device just doesn't > support it. > > Ryan > > Jonathan Greene wrote: >> I can't answer that as I have nothing to do with software releases... >> thats a Nokia / Maemo team question. I think you just need to tread >> lightly with Red Pill mode knowing it's an official unofficial (or >> perhaps unsupported) method of doing things. >> >> On 9/11/07, *Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >> >> Hello Jonathan, >> >> Why then should there be patches to some of the OS 2006 files? Do >> you mean that these patches could simply be experimental even >> though they have a version later than the ones installed in the 770? >> >> Does anybody at Nokia releases patches to essential OS 2006 system >> files which can be updated under red-pill mode? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Pedro >> - Original message - >> From: Jonathan Greene <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> Cc: Maemo users mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org>> >> Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007, 22:27:15 CEST >> Subject: Re: Updates in red-pill mode >> "Welcome to the Matrix" >> >> I don't think Red Pill mode is advised for general use or system >> updates. >> It's really more of a backdoor. I've used it to get Python to >> install in >> the past as it seems to get past the missing library error though >> I'm not >> sure that's so much of a good thing either. >> >> On 9/11/07, Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > I have realized that in red-pill mode a series of system patches are >> > available for installing, e.g., patches fr browser controls, >> opera etc. >> > >> > I have installed some of these patches - not all - and my 770 >> became more >> > unstable ad even crashed to the point of aving to remove the >> battery to be >> > able to reboot it. >> > >> > Opera also got a new look as new, orange scroll bars replaced the old >> > ones. >> > >> > Is it recommended to install the updates in red-pill mode or is this >> > unwise? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Pedro >> > ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
Updating in red pill mode is just asking to brick your device. I've heard of it happening almost every time. Use red pill mode as a temporary workaround for a single package, not as a way of life, no matter how much of a power user you are. The device just doesn't support it. Ryan Jonathan Greene wrote: > I can't answer that as I have nothing to do with software releases... > thats a Nokia / Maemo team question. I think you just need to tread > lightly with Red Pill mode knowing it's an official unofficial (or > perhaps unsupported) method of doing things. > > On 9/11/07, *Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > Hello Jonathan, > > Why then should there be patches to some of the OS 2006 files? Do > you mean that these patches could simply be experimental even > though they have a version later than the ones installed in the 770? > > Does anybody at Nokia releases patches to essential OS 2006 system > files which can be updated under red-pill mode? > > Cheers, > > Pedro > - Original message - > From: Jonathan Greene <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > Cc: Maemo users mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org>> > Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007, 22:27:15 CEST > Subject: Re: Updates in red-pill mode > "Welcome to the Matrix" > > I don't think Red Pill mode is advised for general use or system > updates. > It's really more of a backdoor. I've used it to get Python to > install in > the past as it seems to get past the missing library error though > I'm not > sure that's so much of a good thing either. > > On 9/11/07, Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I have realized that in red-pill mode a series of system patches are > > available for installing, e.g., patches fr browser controls, > opera etc. > > > > I have installed some of these patches - not all - and my 770 > became more > > unstable ad even crashed to the point of aving to remove the > battery to be > > able to reboot it. > > > > Opera also got a new look as new, orange scroll bars replaced the old > > ones. > > > > Is it recommended to install the updates in red-pill mode or is this > > unwise? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Pedro > > > > ___ > > maemo-users mailing list > > maemo-users@maemo.org <mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org> > > > > https://lists.maemo.org<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users>; > > /mailman/listinfo/maemo-users<https://lists.maemo.org > <https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users>> > /mailman/listinfo/maemo-users> > <https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users>>; > > > > > > > -- > Jonathan Greene > +1.914.750.8740 > AIM / iChat - atmasphere > gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene > blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp > <http://www.atmasphere.net/wp > > <http://www.atmasphere.net/wp >; / http://www.maemoapps.com > > > > > > -- > Jonathan Greene > +1.914.750.8740 > AIM / iChat - atmasphere > gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene > blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com > > > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users > -- Ryan Pavlik AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com AbiWord Community Outreach Project: www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/ "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." -- Helen Keller "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
I can't answer that as I have nothing to do with software releases... thats a Nokia / Maemo team question. I think you just need to tread lightly with Red Pill mode knowing it's an official unofficial (or perhaps unsupported) method of doing things. On 9/11/07, Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Jonathan, > > Why then should there be patches to some of the OS 2006 files? Do you mean > that these patches could simply be experimental even though they have a > version later than the ones installed in the 770? > > Does anybody at Nokia releases patches to essential OS 2006 system files > which can be updated under red-pill mode? > > Cheers, > > Pedro > - Original message - > From: Jonathan Greene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Maemo users > Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007, 22:27:15 CEST > Subject: Re: Updates in red-pill mode > "Welcome to the Matrix" > > I don't think Red Pill mode is advised for general use or system updates. > It's really more of a backdoor. I've used it to get Python to install in > the past as it seems to get past the missing library error though I'm not > sure that's so much of a good thing either. > > On 9/11/07, Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I have realized that in red-pill mode a series of system patches are > > available for installing, e.g., patches fr browser controls, opera etc. > > > > I have installed some of these patches - not all - and my 770 became > more > > unstable ad even crashed to the point of aving to remove the battery to > be > > able to reboot it. > > > > Opera also got a new look as new, orange scroll bars replaced the old > > ones. > > > > Is it recommended to install the updates in red-pill mode or is this > > unwise? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Pedro > > > > ___ > > maemo-users mailing list > > maemo-users@maemo.org > > https://lists.maemo.org<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman > /listinfo/maemo-users> > > /mailman/listinfo/maemo-users<https://lists.maemo.org<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users>> > /mailman/listinfo/maemo-users><https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users>> > ; > > > > > > > -- > Jonathan Greene > +1.914.750.8740 > AIM / iChat - atmasphere > gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene > blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp <http://www.atmasphere.net/wp > > <http://www.atmasphere.net/wp >; / http://www.maemoapps.com > > > -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
Hello Jonathan, Why then should there be patches to some of the OS 2006 files? Do you mean that these patches could simply be experimental even though they have a version later than the ones installed in the 770? Does anybody at Nokia releases patches to essential OS 2006 system files which can be updated under red-pill mode? Cheers, Pedro - Original message - From: Jonathan Greene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Maemo users Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007, 22:27:15 CEST Subject: Re: Updates in red-pill mode "Welcome to the Matrix" I don't think Red Pill mode is advised for general use or system updates. It's really more of a backdoor. I've used it to get Python to install in the past as it seems to get past the missing library error though I'm not sure that's so much of a good thing either. On 9/11/07, Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, > > I have realized that in red-pill mode a series of system patches are > available for installing, e.g., patches fr browser controls, opera etc. > > I have installed some of these patches - not all - and my 770 became more > unstable ad even crashed to the point of aving to remove the battery to be > able to reboot it. > > Opera also got a new look as new, orange scroll bars replaced the old > ones. > > Is it recommended to install the updates in red-pill mode or is this > unwise? > > Thanks, > > Pedro > > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users>; > /mailman/listinfo/maemo-users<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users>; > > -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp ; / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
"Welcome to the Matrix" I don't think Red Pill mode is advised for general use or system updates. It's really more of a backdoor. I've used it to get Python to install in the past as it seems to get past the missing library error though I'm not sure that's so much of a good thing either. On 9/11/07, Pedro Rodrigues de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, > > I have realized that in red-pill mode a series of system patches are > available for installing, e.g., patches fr browser controls, opera etc. > > I have installed some of these patches - not all - and my 770 became more > unstable ad even crashed to the point of aving to remove the battery to be > able to reboot it. > > Opera also got a new look as new, orange scroll bars replaced the old > ones. > > Is it recommended to install the updates in red-pill mode or is this > unwise? > > Thanks, > > Pedro > > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users> > /mailman/listinfo/maemo-users<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users> > > -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Updates in red-pill mode
Hello, I have realized that in red-pill mode a series of system patches are available for installing, e.g., patches fr browser controls, opera etc. I have installed some of these patches - not all - and my 770 became more unstable ad even crashed to the point of aving to remove the battery to be able to reboot it. Opera also got a new look as new, orange scroll bars replaced the old ones. Is it recommended to install the updates in red-pill mode or is this unwise? Thanks, Pedro ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
