Re: [Mageia-dev] Hello Mageia!!!!

[Anne Wilson]

On 26/11/2012 18:54, Joseph Wang wrote:
> I would like to attend the weekly meeting, but I'm in Asia.
> 
May I suggest that you leave an IRC window open overnight, then, read
the backscroll, and simply reply to the channel at a more convenient
time if you see things that need comment?  Time zones do make things
difficult, and people will understand your problem.

> 1) I try to avoid posting to public e-mail lists when I don't know the social
> conventions and people involved (and if they don't know me)

Don't worry about that.  Observe the normal politenesses - trying to
avoid treading on toes where possible :-) - and you will be fine.  We
have people from many backgrounds here, and we are used to making
allowances for non-native English.  People will simply ask for
clarification if we don't understand what you are saying.  Relax and the
experience will be more enjoyable :-)

Anne

Re: [Mageia-dev] [RPM Groups] RPM group change before Beta 1 (fixed title)

[Remco Rijnders]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:34:33PM +, Malo wrote in 
<50b3a829.4060...@rhul.ac.uk>:


Some progress has happened on the RPM group move. Thanks a lot.
However there is still a lot to do before the Beta 1 and the mass-rebuild.

The main categories that need still to be changed are:

Obsolete group   | number of remaining packages

Books/Computer books   21
Books/Howtos   2
Books/Other26
Graphics   296
Office 134
Sound  419
Video  440

Total = 1338


Hi Malo,

It would help if you have / could share a breakdown of the above, perhaps 
both per package and maintainer?


Thanks,

Remmy
(now waiting for people to come up with 20 alternate ways to get such a 
list in one line of chained shell commands :-)


pgpSZFw3mC5Za.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mageia-dev Digest, Vol 27, Issue 85

[Bo Lan]

On Monday, November 26, 2012 10:49:43 PM Joseph Wang wrote:

I really don't think that cinnamon is ready for Mageia 
3.  There are some pretty major bugs in it, and it's not 
ready for prime time.  It would be useful to keep it in the 
testing section, and then target it for Mageia 4. 


Hi Joseph,

I read some of your posts. And I believe that your work is good. I think 
that somebody refusing to put some softwares to cauldron is because 
cauldron will be freezed a short time in a near future, and it would be 
generated to a stable Mageia 3 distro. And after that, the cauldron will 
burn and boil again. That time is a pathway to Mageia 4, so the 
people(most of us have job) have more time to test cinnamon.

I am so lucky because I learn to package a software and it works 
perfectly. So my mentor Jose and another packager Funda Wang put it 
into cauldron. But I still do not have my account to do that directly, and 
I need more experience and try to pack and patch more. But I am still 
very happy cause it has a lot of fun.

[Mageia-dev] youri/check (was Re: Updating python-lxml)

[David Walser]

philippe makowski wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 2012/11/26 Shlomi Fish :
>>
>> can you update python-lxml to 3.0.1 or is there any reason it wasn't updated
>> yet?
> just because http://check.mageia.org did not told me to update it ;)

It's missing an awful lot these days, as it's not checking Fedora, 
Mandriva/ROSA, and some other 
things that would be helpful.  I'm concerned about this, as it would be really 
nice if we could have 
things reasonably on par with Fedora 18 for Mageia 3.  Fedora 18 is supposed to 
form the basis of 
RHEL 7, so having things reasonably in sync with them would be very helpful for 
stable support of 
Mageia 3 going forward.  I really hope youri could be fixed soon.

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mageia-dev Digest, Vol 27, Issue 85

[andre999]

Joseph Wang a écrit :

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:51 PM, mailto:mageia-dev-requ...@mageia.org>> wrote:

Hmm, have you missed that there will be no Cinnamon in Mageia repos?
Part of packagers "job" is to keep eye on the dev ml.


Maybe I'll stay on for another day or so.  I've been using
Mageia/Mandriva for years,


Like probably most of us here.  And we are all volonteers.

...


I have a dozen or so packages in the queue.  I've been working with the
Fedora
to get a python to rpm conversion script working, and I have about a dozen
python packages that are ready to be uploaded.  I'm interested in
creating a first
rate platform for astronomy.  I've got ds9 working.  I've packaged
glamor, and I've
gotten an open source ati driver working for Radeonsi.  I want to start
packaging heavy duty astrophysics code on Mageia.


These are contributions that will be appreciated now.

The problem with Cinnamon, as Colin and others have stated, is that the
overhead of having something as big as that is a lot more than just 
packaging.  Even the pure packaging part takes a lot of time, as you 
have pointed out, not counting the bugs of something being newly 
developed.  For something like that we would need to be assured of 
longer term support.  Something we haven't the ressources for at the moment.
Note that this has been discussed many times on this list in the past, 
before you got involved.  So Cinnamon will have to wait, but I suspect 
that it could be doable in the future.  (I'd like to try it out myself.)


Regards :)

--
André

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] cauldron core/release x11-driver-video-ati-7.0.0-2.mga3

[Anssi Hannula]

26.11.2012 19:25, Thomas Backlund kirjoitti:
> tv skrev 26.11.2012 16:53:
>> Name: x11-driver-video-ati Relocations: (not relocatable)
>> Version : 7.0.0 Vendor: Mageia.Org
>> Release : 2.mga3Build Date: Mon Nov 26 15:52:14 
>> 2012
> 
> Note to all ati users...
> 
> Beginning with 7.0.0 series, this driver is KMS only.
> 
> so UMS mode ("nokms") is no more useful with this driver
> 
> IIRC we will also need to update display_driver_helper (and maybe drakx) 
> to cope with this fact...

I'll disable the hack in display_driver_helper...

But should we now have ldetect-lst fallback to vesa on all radeon cards
if no fw installed ("DRIVER_NO_FIRMWARE vesa")?

According to the kernel driver code (AFAICS, that is) it should fallback
to no acceleration in case of no firmware, but at least some time ago
that apparently didn't happen properly...

-- 
Anssi Hannula

Re: [Mageia-dev] "sell" me Mageia (was: Cinnamon)

[Florent Monnier]

2012/11/26, Joseph Wang :
[...]
> I suppose it would help if someone tries to "sell" me Mageia.  What is
> Mageia, and why should I volunteer to work on it?
[...]

Hello,

I won't tell you that you should be a volunteer to Mageia. You should
volunteer to the project that you like, that matches your wishes, and
if you like the community around this project.

But I can tell you why I'm volunteer for Mageia and not another Linux
distro. It's because Mageia is (or I suppose it is) targeted to lambda
users that maybe have no programming skills. When I installed my first
Mandrake in 2001 (8.0) I even didn't know how to use Windows, it was
my first computer, and I just had to clic on "next -> next -> next"
and the installation was done with no other skills than been able to
read.

I do not believe in Linux distro that need skills to install and
manage, at least these distro are good but I think that they should
only be provided to skilled people. I don't like to see in the LUGs
people installing distros for non-programmers that are far beyond
their skills.

This said I'm only a very humble contributor, I've only packaged 2
things that will insterest lambda users. But if a lot of poeple do the
same it would be enough.

There are probably other motivations why contribute to Mageia and not
another distro.

Also I've not read all the thread, but I've read that you like to do
things instead of talk to much. I'm the same, you will see very few
post of me in the lists, I'm just doing the things I like on my side
(very few things I admit), and most often I just don't know everything
about what hapens in the mga community. So if it's what you want it's
possible, but it seems that the package you did has more interactions,
so in this case there is no escape for needing coordination.

Best regards

Re: [Mageia-dev] Updating python-lxml

[philippe makowski]

Hi,

2012/11/26 Shlomi Fish :
>
> can you update python-lxml to 3.0.1 or is there any reason it wasn't updated
> yet?
just because http://check.mageia.org did not told me to update it ;)

> Otherwise, I can update it (it was a matter of changing the version, and
> running mgarepo sync -d and rebuilding).
hum, could be, but since it can be packaged for Python 3, I guess that
we need to take the opportunity to change the spec to build it also
for Python 3

will try to do it this week

[Mageia-dev] Updating python-lxml

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Phillipe,

can you update python-lxml to 3.0.1 or is there any reason it wasn't updated
yet? Otherwise, I can update it (it was a matter of changing the version, and
running mgarepo sync -d and rebuilding). 

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
My Aphorisms - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html

Why can’t we ever attempt to solve a problem in this country without having
a “War” on it? -- Rich Thomson, talk.politics.misc

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

Re: [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia

[Thomas Backlund]

Joseph Wang skrev 26.11.2012 20:25:


My assumption was that as a community driven project, there would be
some mechanism
for adding new packages to the system, and that I wouldn't have to
worry about getting
permission, I would just do it.  Fedora already has a mechanism for
doing that, but sense
I was already using Mageia, I had thought that Mageia would be at
least as open as
Fedora, and that it would be easy to add large numbers of new packages.

Now if I'm mistaken about this, and this is not the goal of the Mageia
maintainers, then
I just need to find some other platform to work on.



There is a simple mechanism mostly... :)

We usually dont object to people adding new stuff to the repos,
as long as they follow our packaging policy and media rules.

But in the cinnamon case we decided we dont want it in official
repos for now because of the extra problems it would introduce
at this point...

And the reason you need to do the "review process" part currently,
is because you are currently an packager in training, something
every new Mageia maintainer has has to go through in order to
learn about Mageia packaging rules and best practices...

When your packaging mentor consider you to be ready, he will
request that we promote your account to full packager status
wich means you will be able to submit packages yourself and
maintain them according the the policys we have in place.

--
Thomas

Re: [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia

[Kamil Rytarowski]

On 26.11.2012 19:52, Guillaume Rousse wrote:

Le 26/11/2012 15:07, Joseph Wang a écrit :

If Mageia won't accept the work that I just did packaging cinnamon, then
bye,
bye Mageia.

See you.

Emotional blackmail is a form of psychological manipulation - it is "the 
use of a system of threats and punishment on a person by someone close 
to them in an attempt to control their behavior".[1] "Emotional 
blackmail... typically involves two people who have established a close 
personal or intimate relationship (mother and daughter, husband and 
wife, sister and sister, two close friends)."[2] When subjected to 
emotional blackmail, "we become the other's emotional hostage". As Jean 
Baudrillard puts it: "If you don't give me that, you will be responsible 
for my breakdown".[3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_blackmail

[Mageia-dev] Hello Mageia!!!!

[Joseph Wang]

OK.  Everything is better.

One reason I hate posting on public e-mail lists is that you get into
silly flame wars
over miscommunication.  Putting everything into updates_testing and keeping it
out of the core Mageia 3 is exactly the right thing to do.  I can go
ahead with trying
to package cinnamon-themes and cinnamon-extras.

I would like to attend the weekly meeting, but I'm in Asia.

> You've clearly spent time on Cinnamon but at no point did I see you post
> any emails regarding these plans here.

That's because

1) I try to avoid posting to public e-mail lists when I don't know the social
conventions and people involved (and if they don't know me), and

2) it happened by accident.  I'm waiting for Fedora to release pyp2rpm with
my changes, and I had some extra cycles to burn.  There are a few tricky
bits in getting cinnamon to work with Mageia, but it "drops in" pretty well

3) it was something of an experiment.  I could have found that it was totally
impossible in which case there wouldn't be much of a point in announcing
ahead of time that I was going to do it.

> if you're just interested in packaging stuff in a small bubble, separate
> from everything else, then I'm not sure it would work out that well anyway.

Re: [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia

[Guillaume Rousse]

Le 26/11/2012 15:07, Joseph Wang a écrit :

If Mageia won't accept the work that I just did packaging cinnamon, then
bye,
bye Mageia.

See you.

--
BOFH excuse #108:

The air conditioning water supply pipe ruptured over the machine room

Re: [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia

[Donald Stewart]

On 26 November 2012 18:25, Joseph Wang  wrote:
> One reason that I kept rather quiet is that e-mail conversations on
> mailing lists
> have a tendency to become flame wars, and I really want to avoid that.  It's
> very easy in public conversations to come across as a jerk, and as a newbie
> I really wanted to avoid that.  I've tried whenever finding myself in 
> unfamiliar
> social situations to just keep my mouth shut, and listen to what's going on
> for a while before saying anything.
>
> The thing about communications is that it really doesn't scale.  One
> thing that's
> nice about the open source model is that you can go into your garage, work on
> something, and you don't need anyone's permission or to communicate or
> coordinate
> with anyone.  Coordination is a real pain, and you really want to
> structure things so
> that you can minimize coordination. Communication is also a problem.  You say
> one thing, someone replies, pretty soon you have a flame war, and you
> aren't doing
> and "real work."
>
> The thing that I'm working on in my garage is a linux workstation that
> is set up for
> hard-core astrophysics theory.  Packaging is a missing piece of
> scientific software
> since there are hundreds of scientific software packages that are not 
> packaged.
>
> Rather than engage in vaporware, I just need some stable distribution
> that is very
> open to adding new items into some "bleeding edge" repository.
>
> I ended up with Mageia partly for historical reasons, but partly out
> of a sense that
> because it was a community distribution, it would have some easy mechanism
> for accepting "bleeding edge" packages.  Once I got through initial
> packaging learning,
> I was planning to add things like a stellar evolution code and hard
> core CFD code.  I'd
> like to add some professional astronomical telescope tracking software
> (like IRAF or
> DS9), and to hard core astrophysics research.
>
> My assumption was that as a community driven project, there would be
> some mechanism
> for adding new packages to the system, and that I wouldn't have to
> worry about getting
> permission, I would just do it.  Fedora already has a mechanism for
> doing that, but sense
> I was already using Mageia, I had thought that Mageia would be at
> least as open as
> Fedora, and that it would be easy to add large numbers of new packages.
>
> Now if I'm mistaken about this, and this is not the goal of the Mageia
> maintainers, then
> I just need to find some other platform to work on.
>
> Again, it makes perfect sense to me not to put cinnamon into Mageia 3
> core.  It's
> unstable and buggy and it's going to be a pain in the rear end to get
> it to work smoothly.  The
> problem is that if it's not possible to put Cinnamon *somewhere* in
> the Mageia tree
> so that "bleeding edgers" can work on it, then it's going to be
> impossible to use Mageia
> as a distribution mechanism for even more bleeding edge experimental
> software, and if
> that's the intent, then I've just got to find another distribution to work on.
>
> I'm not trying to be a jerk or to blackmail anyone.  It's just that if
> there is no mechanism
> for Mageia users to share bleeding edge software with each other, then
> it's not going to
> work for what I want to do with it.  urpmi and cauldron is a great
> mechanism for two nuclear
> physicists to share say the latest nuclear equation of states
> libraries, and as something
> that advertises itself as a community distribution, I was hoping that
> Mageia could be the
> center of that.  One problem that we have here is that everyone wants
> to copy Apple OSX
> and Android.  The Ipad and MacOS is a slick piece of software.   The
> trouble is that it
> only lets you do what Apple wants you to do, because if you do
> something really different
> you might break the box.  This is really, really bad for real hard
> core, scientific research
> since what you are trying to do is to push the machine to the point
> where you are breaking
> the box, and it's hard to communicate in advance what you are trying
> to do, since you don't
> know.
>
> If that's not what people want to do with Mageia, then I just have to
> accept that and move
> elsewhere...

The thing about communication and coordination is that unless it is
there, and people are aware of what others are doing, then huge
amounts of work will get repeated. Now I am not saying that you need
to keep in communication over every single thing that is going on, but
it is good to have a background knowledge and just to check in. The
better informed we are about what you are doing, then the more that
others can help you.
As you say, sometimes it is hard to know what you are going to do, but
it is still important to be aware of the projects goals, now it is
unfortunate that you have done work on cinnamon, however, as in the
other thread, it seems that there is a possibility that it can be put
into updates/testing. And as you said, it is not ready from the prime
ti

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mailing-list archives and robots

[Anne Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 26/11/2012 16:54, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
> Hi Sander, *,
> 
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Sander Lepik
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Good point! So we are probably missing links to our archives (as
>> i can't find anything that links to mageia-dev archives).
> 
> Not only that, it is also just misconfigured. Mail-headers
> contain:
> 
> List-Archive: 
> 
> Thankfully there also is
> 
> List-Subscribe:
> , 
> 
> 
> And that in turn has a archive-link.
> 
Some lists add a link to archive in a footer.  Personally I've found
that to be very useful.  Perhaps that could also be considered.

> But also moderators of the list need to be setup, or the list needs
> to be configured to immediately reject mails from non-subscribers.
> 
> None of my mails where I forgot to set correct from-address was 
> approved by a moderator, and for none of those there was a 
> notification that it would have been rejected.
> 
> So if you don't want mails from non-subscribers or have no
> moderators to process mails → configure the list accordingly.
> 
I moderate a couple of lists for KDE.  I could take on another list,
as long as the requirements are clear.  E.g. - is it enough to remove
spam and approve messages relevant to Cauldron, or do we need to set
up bounce messages to make people register before they can post?
(Which is terribly off-putting.)

Anne
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Re: [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia

[Joseph Wang]

One reason that I kept rather quiet is that e-mail conversations on
mailing lists
have a tendency to become flame wars, and I really want to avoid that.  It's
very easy in public conversations to come across as a jerk, and as a newbie
I really wanted to avoid that.  I've tried whenever finding myself in unfamiliar
social situations to just keep my mouth shut, and listen to what's going on
for a while before saying anything.

The thing about communications is that it really doesn't scale.  One
thing that's
nice about the open source model is that you can go into your garage, work on
something, and you don't need anyone's permission or to communicate or
coordinate
with anyone.  Coordination is a real pain, and you really want to
structure things so
that you can minimize coordination. Communication is also a problem.  You say
one thing, someone replies, pretty soon you have a flame war, and you
aren't doing
and "real work."

The thing that I'm working on in my garage is a linux workstation that
is set up for
hard-core astrophysics theory.  Packaging is a missing piece of
scientific software
since there are hundreds of scientific software packages that are not packaged.

Rather than engage in vaporware, I just need some stable distribution
that is very
open to adding new items into some "bleeding edge" repository.

I ended up with Mageia partly for historical reasons, but partly out
of a sense that
because it was a community distribution, it would have some easy mechanism
for accepting "bleeding edge" packages.  Once I got through initial
packaging learning,
I was planning to add things like a stellar evolution code and hard
core CFD code.  I'd
like to add some professional astronomical telescope tracking software
(like IRAF or
DS9), and to hard core astrophysics research.

My assumption was that as a community driven project, there would be
some mechanism
for adding new packages to the system, and that I wouldn't have to
worry about getting
permission, I would just do it.  Fedora already has a mechanism for
doing that, but sense
I was already using Mageia, I had thought that Mageia would be at
least as open as
Fedora, and that it would be easy to add large numbers of new packages.

Now if I'm mistaken about this, and this is not the goal of the Mageia
maintainers, then
I just need to find some other platform to work on.

Again, it makes perfect sense to me not to put cinnamon into Mageia 3
core.  It's
unstable and buggy and it's going to be a pain in the rear end to get
it to work smoothly.  The
problem is that if it's not possible to put Cinnamon *somewhere* in
the Mageia tree
so that "bleeding edgers" can work on it, then it's going to be
impossible to use Mageia
as a distribution mechanism for even more bleeding edge experimental
software, and if
that's the intent, then I've just got to find another distribution to work on.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or to blackmail anyone.  It's just that if
there is no mechanism
for Mageia users to share bleeding edge software with each other, then
it's not going to
work for what I want to do with it.  urpmi and cauldron is a great
mechanism for two nuclear
physicists to share say the latest nuclear equation of states
libraries, and as something
that advertises itself as a community distribution, I was hoping that
Mageia could be the
center of that.  One problem that we have here is that everyone wants
to copy Apple OSX
and Android.  The Ipad and MacOS is a slick piece of software.   The
trouble is that it
only lets you do what Apple wants you to do, because if you do
something really different
you might break the box.  This is really, really bad for real hard
core, scientific research
since what you are trying to do is to push the machine to the point
where you are breaking
the box, and it's hard to communicate in advance what you are trying
to do, since you don't
know.

If that's not what people want to do with Mageia, then I just have to
accept that and move
elsewhere...

[Mageia-dev] [RPM Groups] RPM group change before Beta 1 (fixed title)

[Malo]

Sorry for the wrong title ...

On 26/11/12 17:30, Pierre-Malo Deniélou wrote:

Dear packagers,

Some progress has happened on the RPM group move. Thanks a lot.
However there is still a lot to do before the Beta 1 and the mass-rebuild.

The main categories that need still to be changed are:

Obsolete group   | number of remaining packages

Books/Computer books   21
Books/Howtos   2
Books/Other26
Graphics   296
Office 134
Sound  419
Video  440

Total = 1338

With more than 1338 packages left, and less than 100 maintainers, that
means that everyone probably has several packages to fix :-P.

For these packages, it is mostly about sending them to the different
subgroups mentioned in the policy:

https://wiki.mageia.org/en/RPM_groups_policy#List_of_official_groups

I'll send more regular updates on the progress of this task.

Meanwhile, please please fix!

Thanks!



--
Malo

[Mageia-dev] [RPM Groups] Dealing with Books/*

[Pierre-Malo Deniélou]

Dear packagers,

Some progress has happened on the RPM group move. Thanks a lot.
However there is still a lot to do before the Beta 1 and the mass-rebuild.

The main categories that need still to be changed are:

Obsolete group   | number of remaining packages

Books/Computer books   21
Books/Howtos   2
Books/Other26
Graphics   296
Office 134
Sound  419
Video  440

Total = 1338

With more than 1338 packages left, and less than 100 maintainers, that 
means that everyone probably has several packages to fix :-P.


For these packages, it is mostly about sending them to the different 
subgroups mentioned in the policy:


https://wiki.mageia.org/en/RPM_groups_policy#List_of_official_groups

I'll send more regular updates on the progress of this task.

Meanwhile, please please fix!

Thanks!
--
Malo

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] cauldron core/release x11-driver-video-ati-7.0.0-2.mga3

[Thomas Backlund]

tv skrev 26.11.2012 16:53:

Name: x11-driver-video-ati Relocations: (not relocatable)
Version : 7.0.0 Vendor: Mageia.Org
Release : 2.mga3Build Date: Mon Nov 26 15:52:14 2012


Note to all ati users...

Beginning with 7.0.0 series, this driver is KMS only.

so UMS mode ("nokms") is no more useful with this driver

IIRC we will also need to update display_driver_helper (and maybe drakx) 
to cope with this fact...


--
Thomas

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mailing-list archives and robots

[Christian Lohmaier]

 Hi Sander, *,

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Sander Lepik  wrote:
>
> Good point! So we are probably missing links to our archives (as i can't
> find anything that links to mageia-dev archives).

Not only that, it is also just misconfigured.
Mail-headers contain:

List-Archive: 

Thankfully there also is

List-Subscribe: ,


And that in turn has a archive-link.

But also moderators of the list need to be setup, or the list needs to
be configured to immediately reject mails from non-subscribers.

None of my mails where I forgot to set correct from-address was
approved by a moderator, and for none of those there was a
notification that it would have been rejected.

So if you don't want mails from non-subscribers or have no moderators
to process mails → configure the list accordingly.

ciao
Christian

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Thomas Backlund]

Joseph Wang skrev 26.11.2012 18:09:



I just want a nice looking desktop and to have a stable platform that I
can use to do astrophysics hacking.  If I have to spend any non-trivial
effort to get cinnamon packaged in some way that doesn't break the
system, then I'm going to go insane pushing through the 50-100 other
astrophysics packages that I want to add to Mageia.

Now maybe you all don't want me to add 50-100 professional astrophysics
packages to Mageia.  If so, then it's good we had this discussion now :-)
:-) :-)



Well, theese 2 things are not really related, are they :)

We dont mind you add and maintain 50-100 professional astrophysics 
packages to Mageia.


But none of them really depend on cinnamon being available.

But if you are seriously stating no cinnamon means no other 
contributions either, then thats your decision, and your right

to do so.

As for getting cinnamon into Mageia, you yourself stated you
dont think it will be ready for Mga3.

So that statement by itself points out that we might be better
off keeping it from official mirrors for now... We can always
review the decision to block cinnamon later after Mga3 is out,
but that will be another discussion at that time...

But I dont object to storing current work in Mageia SVN.


Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to work.  The trouble is that I'm
doing things out of my "spare time."  The people at my day job can
"persuade" me to show up at work every morning and work regular hours
because they hand me .  Everything I do outside of work is for love
and not money, and love is fickle.  I'll *try* to do what I can, but I have a
day job and kids, and those come first.

Also, I get annoyed enough trying to climb the corporate ladder in my
day job.  I have to play game after game to get myself in a position
where people will listen to me at work.  Today, I had to put together
some Powerpoints for a "review committee" at work, and tomorrow
there is going to be a meeting, and another meeting, and e-mail discussion
and requirements documents, and project plans.  And in the middle of
all of this, I just sometimes want to scream at the committee.  But I don't
since they pay me $$$ not to tell them what I really think of them.

But you aren''t paying me



Ok, please stop this  & "you aren''t paying me" and "my spare time" 
BS already.


Becaus every time you repeat it, you will be taken less and less 
seriously, until people finally stop responding.


Point is... you are in _no way_ "more special" than any other
contributor in Mageia. Most of us are doing this on our free time
and by our free will, spending countless of hours and other resources
to work on it.



Now, you may say that this is just "part of life."  It may be "part of Mageia"
but it's certainly not part of "open source," and I can put together useful
things elsewhere without having to go through the damn review committee.


Well, lets speak of "open source" then...

The "if I dont get this, I wont do that" try to force/blackmail is most
definately not a part of open source... rather the opposite...

And almost all distributions and larger projects have some kind of
review/stering comittee so make sure a project is heading in a wanted
direction. That does not mean their decision will please everybody.



Remember I got these specs by converting Fedora RPM's, and they'll be the
first people I'll go to.  If they don't work, then I'll try a dozen
other distributions,
and if none of those work, I'll start my own.



Well, thats the beauty of FLOSS... you can do whatever you want with the 
code...


And I guess Fedora wont mind you helping them out & contributing
upstream..

It will then be spread and used by other distributions including Mageia :)


I suppose it would help if someone tries to "sell" me Mageia.  What is
Mageia, and why should I volunteer to work on it?



Well, we dont need to "sell" it to you. This is FLOSS after all.
Not every distribution suits everybody, that's how it's always been,
and it will be so in the future too...

Yes, we like people that want to contribute, but we dont like being
blackmailed...



The thing is that if it is uncertain whether cinnamon will get into Mageia,
then it's just a waste of time for me to work on it in Mageia.  It would be
more useful for me to work on getting it to work with Fedora, Ubuntu, or
Mint, because I know that it's going to be useful there.



Well, by all means... if you are basing the rest of your contributions
based on wether you can get cinnamon in or not, then I guess you need
to pick one that suits your needs, we wont stop you.

There are many great FLOSS projects out there, just pick one (or more) 
and be happy...


--
Thomas

Re: [Mageia-dev] rpmsrate-raw changes related to GNOME

[Manuel Hiebel]

Le 26/11/2012 16:03, Olav Vitters a écrit :
> I've made the following rpmsrate-raw changes related to GNOME

fix for https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6133 still missing

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mageia-dev Digest, Vol 27, Issue 85

[Pierre-Malo Deniélou]

On 26/11/12 14:49, Joseph Wang wrote:

I really don't think that cinnamon is ready for Mageia 3.  There are
some pretty major bugs in it, and it's not ready for prime time.  It would be 
useful
to keep it in the testing section, and then target it for Mageia 4.  I do think 
it
would be a good idea to at least start looking at alternatives to Gnome 3 since
they are self-destructing, and I've been *extremely* impressed by cinnamon 
(minus two
annoying bugs which I'm trying to fix).


If you didn't know, it's pretty much the exact thing that was decided 
for Mageia: cinnamon is not ready yet.
But submiting it to cauldron would include it in Mageia 3. Maybe for 
Mageia 4?
Your work is nice and much appreciated. And I'd love to see more 
astrophysics packages in Mageia.


It'd be great it you would come on IRC (at any time) and to the packager 
meetings on Tuesdays. That'd help with communication, because overall 
we're a bunch of nice people ;-).


--
Malo

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Pascal Terjan]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Joseph Wang  wrote:

> > This is true, and there is no doubt that we need more resources, but in
> > this case it could cost more than it gains. We have had issues in the
> > past of the packages for these alternative DEs causing issues for the
> > core DEs due to the packages satisfying dep's required by the core
> packages.
>
> I don't think that cinnamon is ready for Mageia 3.  However if we have
> a situation
> in which it's impossible to package a new DE even in an experimental
> setting,
> then we have a pretty serious problem.  That locks Mageia to GNOME and KDE,
> and GNOME is self-destructing.
>

You can package it to updates_testing in cauldron, this will not go into
mageia 3

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Joseph Wang]

> This is true, and there is no doubt that we need more resources, but in
> this case it could cost more than it gains. We have had issues in the
> past of the packages for these alternative DEs causing issues for the
> core DEs due to the packages satisfying dep's required by the core packages.

I don't think that cinnamon is ready for Mageia 3.  However if we have
a situation
in which it's impossible to package a new DE even in an experimental setting,
then we have a pretty serious problem.  That locks Mageia to GNOME and KDE,
and GNOME is self-destructing.

The "testing" repository seems like it's a good place to put these
sorts of things.
Or there must be a way of marking a package as "cauldron-only."  We had a
"contrib" section in Mandriva that dealt with that.

The other question is how does Fedora manage to do it.

> So while you may have packaged Cinnamon and tested that *it* works, have
> you tested it in a repository along with all the other packages we have,
> installing e.g. a gnome install and double checking that none of the
> cinnamon packages have been pulled in to satisfy deps (incorrectly)?

chicken meets egg.  If I can check this on my machine, then I can write a
script to check for this.  However, the place where you find this
sorts of issues
is when other people start using the package and finding that it doesn't work.
But that involves making the package available for other people to use.

The two big alternatives to GNOME are cinnamon and MATE, and one nice
thing about cinnamon is that it's relatively non-intrusive.

> Perhaps you have, but the "resources" required to support a new DE is
> not simply on the packaging. It's in the QA and it's in the testing of
> the fallout to other installs when those packages simply exist in the
> repos. This is what often takes the most resources.

Sure, and you don't want that to block mageia 3.

But most of QA and testing involves getting live users to actually run the
packages.  If you don't somehow get the packages out to power users
then things will never get fixed.

> If you are keen to push this through, then I'm afraid you likely will
> have to get involved in discussions about it.

Or I can do things the easy way.  I basically took the Fedora SPEC's
and modified them for Mageia.  I could just as well work on Fedora or
Linux Mint, and then at some point when Mageia wants to the take those
SPEC's, then someone else can port them over.

I just want a nice looking desktop and to have a stable platform that I
can use to do astrophysics hacking.  If I have to spend any non-trivial
effort to get cinnamon packaged in some way that doesn't break the
system, then I'm going to go insane pushing through the 50-100 other
astrophysics packages that I want to add to Mageia.

Now maybe you all don't want me to add 50-100 professional astrophysics
packages to Mageia.  If so, then it's good we had this discussion now :-)
:-) :-)

> Also, if you really do wish to have this supported, then you should
> likely keep on packaging and hopefully find some of the many
> unmaintained packages to adopt and prove that you will be sticking
> around for a while and not abandon maintenance in the future for
> whatever reason.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to work.  The trouble is that I'm
doing things out of my "spare time."  The people at my day job can
"persuade" me to show up at work every morning and work regular hours
because they hand me .  Everything I do outside of work is for love
and not money, and love is fickle.  I'll *try* to do what I can, but I have a
day job and kids, and those come first.

Also, I get annoyed enough trying to climb the corporate ladder in my
day job.  I have to play game after game to get myself in a position
where people will listen to me at work.  Today, I had to put together
some Powerpoints for a "review committee" at work, and tomorrow
there is going to be a meeting, and another meeting, and e-mail discussion
and requirements documents, and project plans.  And in the middle of
all of this, I just sometimes want to scream at the committee.  But I don't
since they pay me $$$ not to tell them what I really think of them.

But you aren''t paying me

Now, you may say that this is just "part of life."  It may be "part of Mageia"
but it's certainly not part of "open source," and I can put together useful
things elsewhere without having to go through the damn review committee.
Remember I got these specs by converting Fedora RPM's, and they'll be the
first people I'll go to.  If they don't work, then I'll try a dozen
other distributions,
and if none of those work, I'll start my own.

I suppose it would help if someone tries to "sell" me Mageia.  What is
Mageia, and why should I volunteer to work on it?

The thing is that if it is uncertain whether cinnamon will get into Mageia,
then it's just a waste of time for me to work on it in Mageia.  It would be
more useful for me to work on getting it to work with Fed

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mageia-dev Digest, Vol 27, Issue 85

[Liam R E Quin]

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 22:49 +0800, Joseph Wang wrote:

> Let me tell you about my day. 

[...]

Most of us have jobs. Almost everyone here is a volunteer. But you are
volunteering to be part of a team, and that involves fitting in with the
team's larger goals.

A set of astronomy-related packages would be fabulous.

One way forward might be to set up your own repository so others can
test your packages.

> You can keep cinnamon out of the distribution, but that's up to you.
I don't think anyone is saying, "we want to prevent people from
using..." but rather, "if it goes in the core distribution it's an extra
thing to support, and needs careful packaging in order to avoid users
ending up with a broken mix of gnome and cinnamon, as otherwise even in
contrib it could make the core distribution break for many people."

So this means it needs to be tested.

> Also, in case someone wants to have a discussion rather than *ordering* me
> to do something
I don't think you're being ordered, although sometimes, because English
is a second or third language for some people here, tone of voice
doesn't carry very well in email.

And yes, communication, whether by email or IRC, is a big part of
collaborating.

Liam

-- 
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

Re: [Mageia-dev] OpenVPN + auth-user-pass + systemd password agents

[Richard Couture]

I've googled for hours before writing the message and as usual, simply 
increased my blood pressure with no solutions |-( Maybe you'll have 
better luck.




Richard


On 11/26/2012 07:42 AM, Colin Guthrie wrote:

'Twas brillig, and Richard Couture at 26/11/12 03:02 did gyre and gimble:

I didn't mean to open a can of worms, but since it's open ...


No worries. No worms here, just discussing some packaging related stuff.


with script-security 2 added to the client.conf, openvpn starts just
fine with the command   systemctl restart openvpn@client.service


Yes, the script-security stuff needs to go into the config. The sysvinit
script had a horrible hack to work around this not being there, but it's
really just that - a hack - and such black magic shouldn't be encouraged!


UNTIL
you add the parameter  auth-user-pass to the client.conf
Once that param is added, openvpn refuses to start via systemD


(small point, it's systemd, not systemD :))


though it
starts just fine via sys5
[root@pwyr openvpn]# cd /etc/init.d/
[root@pwyr init.d]# ./openvpn restart
Shutting down openvpn: [  OK  ]
Starting openvpn: Enter Auth Username:rrc
Enter Auth Password:
[  OK  ]
Since were looking at openvpn, hopefully we can figure out what this is
all about as this param is EXTREMELY important to harden the security of
openvpn


Right, I guess this is simply because it's using a somewhat legacy
method of getting the password form the user...

It should really hook into the system used by other components to get
passwords from the user, including during early boot. This is used e.g.
to get the password for encrypted disk partitions and works nicely with
Plymouth for eye-candy as well as via the command line and even via
desktop environments if appropriate.

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PasswordAgents

I guess I'll need to look more into it to see what can be (or has been)
done to address this. It should be relatively simple in theory...

If you are a hacker, feel free to look into this! (I've not googled or
anything so perhaps someone has done this already)


Col



--
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[Mageia-dev] GStreamer packaging (was: Re: rpmsrate-raw changes related to GNOME)

[Colin Guthrie]

'Twas brillig, and Olav Vitters at 26/11/12 15:03 did gyre and gimble:
> 1. gstreamer1.0-pulse in Audio category (in addition to gstreamer0.10-pulse!)
>==> guessing gstreamer0.10 might be around for a while, not sure

Just a followup to this and some other gst related discussions of late,
should we perhaps think about simplifying the gstreamer packaging a bit.

We're quite subpackage-y at the moment. I accept this allows to keep an
install minimal and avoids pulling in dependant libs etc, but I think in
95-99% (guess) of cases, this isn't needed.

e.g. it's pretty much impossible these days to install things without
libpulse, so why bother separating out the gst-pulse plugin from -good
generally? Likewise for several other containers and codecs.

Maybe just something to do with the gst1.0 packages - a fresh start?

Just a thought as I'm not the maintainer here :)

Col

-- 

Colin Guthrie
colin(at)mageia.org
http://colin.guthr.ie/

Day Job:
  Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/
Open Source:
  Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/
  PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/
  Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/

Re: [Mageia-dev] rpmsrate-raw changes related to GNOME

[Thierry Vignaud]

On 26 November 2012 16:03, Olav Vitters  wrote:
> I've made the following rpmsrate-raw changes related to GNOME

Most are OKs but:

> 3. X category always provided xdm,xguest,icewm-light. I changed that to
>only install this when not GNOME.

meaning:
- no fall back desktop when gnone is broken
- no xguest support anymore

> Note: The rpmsrate-raw said you cannot list a package twice, but noticed
> one such package. Forgot the name already though :P

That means rpmsrate won't be able to be uploaded due to faillure.

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Florent Monnier]

2012/11/26, Joseph Wang :
[...]
> So what do you want me to do?

I just discovered your problem while reading your email and its answers.
I'm also a volunteer just like you.
Not for Mageia but in other project I also did some work that have
never been accepted upstream. So I do understand that this is often
frustrating.
When this happens sometimes I'll put my work as a patch on my web
site, which makes me feel better and think that maybe I've not worked
for nothing.
Also some upstreams are happy to put packages on their own project
page, and provide .rpm or .deb or whatever just next to the links to
the sources. These things works fine when the software is not a
dependency for anything else. It maybe also a usefull way to provide
packages given that mageia is not a rolling release distro, if you are
close enough with the upstream you can provide your .rpm to them just
few days (or even the same day) after a new release, while with Mageia
you have to wait next mageia version.
If the upstream don't want that, please don't say they are anoying
people, but just then put it on your own website. Create a basic
webpage with keywords that search engines will find, and everthing
will be fine. Keep in mind that this how free software works, this is
the bazaar. OK you won't be able to fork Mageia on your own alone, but
providing alternative things on your side is just fine.
Anyway don't do any affective blackmail but rather try to addopt a
constructive behavior.

--

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mailing-list archives and robots

[Sander Lepik]

26.11.2012 16:52, Olav Vitters kirjutas:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 03:51:11PM +0200, Sander Lepik wrote:
>> I was trying to find something from dev-ml archives with google and
>> found nothing. Then i checked our archives source and found '> NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow">'- is there some good reason for
>> "nofollow"? Or should i use something else to search our archives?
> Normally you'd set nofollow on individual archived messages. The general
> index page should NOT have "nofollow". This ensures that if some spam
> arrives to an "free to post" mailing list (e.g. the sysadmin one), it
> doesn't put the spam site higher in Google.
>
> IMO this is good to do, and it also should indicate to Google that
> you're not a spam site yourself (e.g. I assume Google lowers sites which
> have loads of links to spam sites).
>
Good point! So we are probably missing links to our archives (as i can't
find anything that links to mageia-dev archives).

--
Sander

Re: [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia

[Donald Stewart]

On 26 November 2012 14:47, Olav Vitters  wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:07:31PM +0800, Joseph Wang wrote:
>> Anyway, gnome is in a death spiral
>
> If you don't like flames, don't start one.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Olav (GNOME release team member, Mageia packager)

While this situation is unfortunate, and could have been prevented by
finding out what needed done at the start I still cant help but feel
that at the very lest the work that has been done should be kept as it
is still unclear what will happen in the future.
That said, the reasons for Mageia not including Cinnamon to me are
valid, and while packaging Cinnamon may have been your direct aim,
even an open source community driven project requires teams to have
coordination and cant be a free for all, therefore, I feel that while
your work on Cinnamon and the enthusiasm is really welcome, adding
some direction to it, for instance trying to reduce the list on
un-maintained packages that we already have would be far more
beneficial to the project, albeit maybe more work like for you. But
this is the compromise that contributing to a project requires.

Schultz

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mailing-list archives and robots

[Olav Vitters]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 03:51:11PM +0200, Sander Lepik wrote:
> I was trying to find something from dev-ml archives with google and
> found nothing. Then i checked our archives source and found ' NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow">'- is there some good reason for
> "nofollow"? Or should i use something else to search our archives?

Normally you'd set nofollow on individual archived messages. The general
index page should NOT have "nofollow". This ensures that if some spam
arrives to an "free to post" mailing list (e.g. the sysadmin one), it
doesn't put the spam site higher in Google.

IMO this is good to do, and it also should indicate to Google that
you're not a spam site yourself (e.g. I assume Google lowers sites which
have loads of links to spam sites).

-- 
Regards,
Olav

Re: [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia

[Colin Guthrie]

'Twas brillig, and Joseph Wang at 26/11/12 14:07 did gyre and gimble:
> If Mageia won't accept the work that I just did packaging cinnamon, then
> bye, bye Mageia. 

It's a shame that you feel the need to write such an email after an
incredibly minimal discussion on the topic.

It's basically an ultimatum stating: let X into the repositories or I'm
going.

You've clearly spent time on Cinnamon but at no point did I see you post
any emails regarding these plans here.

Part of contributing (and we certainly need contributors) is
collaboration. Communicating with others, even when they work on stuff
that you don't personally use (or even like!), is an essential part of
that process. Had you done this earlier then the current decisions
regarding cinnamon would have happened much sooner.

Also if you don't really want to "get involved in the politics" then I'm
not sure what to say. Everyone has to be involved to some degree to help
steer things in the right direction that works for as many people as
possible. Without being involved you won't be able to represent the
projects you care about. We need people to take an active interest, but
if you're just interested in packaging stuff in a small bubble, separate
from everything else, then I'm not sure it would work out that well anyway.

I hope you reconsider, but you *will* have to get more involved if you
want to do that. It's an essential part of the community.

Col

-- 

Colin Guthrie
colin(at)mageia.org
http://colin.guthr.ie/

Day Job:
  Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/
Open Source:
  Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/
  PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/
  Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/

Re: [Mageia-dev] Mageia-dev Digest, Vol 27, Issue 85

[Joseph Wang]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:51 PM,  wrote:

> Hmm, have you missed that there will be no Cinnamon in Mageia repos?
> Part of packagers "job" is to keep eye on the dev ml.
>

Maybe I'll stay on for another day or so.  I've been using Mageia/Mandriva
for years,
and so I'll keep it on my disk for another two or three days.

Let me tell you about my day.  I go to work, I work for 12 hours a day.  I
come
home.  On a good day, I have maybe an hour or two to work on my hobby.
I might have a few hours to work on weekends.  But I have a *job* and
*kids*.

I find coding relaxing.  I find packaging relaxing and educational.  I've
actually
learned a lot about rpm.  I've also learned a lot about how cinnamon works.

But I have a *job*.  Here I'm a volunteer.  I got cinnamon working for my
own
amusement.  if I have to spend lots of time keeping track of e-mail
discussions,
then I'm just not going to have the time to do anything "real."  I find
coding *fun*.
I find office politics and taking orders *not fun*.

And I've been quiet, because I'm a newbie.  I keep my mouth shut, and watch
what's going on before I say anything.  If I feel like I fit in, I stay.
If not, I don't.

I have a dozen or so packages in the queue.  I've been working with the
Fedora
to get a python to rpm conversion script working, and I have about a dozen
python packages that are ready to be uploaded.  I'm interested in creating
a first
rate platform for astronomy.  I've got ds9 working.  I've packaged glamor,
and I've
gotten an open source ati driver working for Radeonsi.  I want to start
packaging heavy duty astrophysics code on Mageia.

If you find this useful.  Then take it.  If not, I'll find somewhere else.
Say thank you
and smile at me, and I'm a sucker, and I'll keep doing it.

But remember I have a *job*.  If this starts feeling like *work* then
there's no
reason for me to be here.  I'll put up with some politics if it means
getting something
useful done in the end, and I'll spend a lot of time if I learn something,
but my
time is precious, and I could have been spending the last hour trying to
get some
more themes packaged rather than writing useless e-mail (and I hate e-mail,
I get enough of this non-sense at work).

I've been using Mageia/Mandriva for years, so I'll wait a few days before
wiping
my disk to see how people react.  I'll keep packaging and debugging stuff.
I
*will* work on cinnamon, because I think it's a cool desktop.  There is one
major
bug, that I'd like to help fix.  You can't tell me to stop working on
cinnamon.

You can keep cinnamon out of the distribution, but that's up to you.

Also, in case someone wants to have a discussion rather than *ordering* me
to do something

I really don't think that cinnamon is ready for Mageia 3.  There are some
pretty
major bugs in it, and it's not ready for prime time.  It would be useful to
keep it
in the testing section, and then target it for Mageia 4.  I do think it
would be a
good idea to at least start looking at alternatives to Gnome 3 since they
are
self-destructing, and I've been *extremely* impressed by cinnamon (minus two
annoying bugs which I'm trying to fix).

Re: [Mageia-dev] Bye Bye Mageia

[Olav Vitters]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:07:31PM +0800, Joseph Wang wrote:
> Anyway, gnome is in a death spiral

If you don't like flames, don't start one.

-- 
Regards,
Olav (GNOME release team member, Mageia packager)

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Jan Ciger]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Thomas Backlund  wrote:

> Jan Ciger skrev 26.11.2012 16:33:
>
>
> Ummm.. we dont have any "Contribs" media :)
>


Oops. I guess my Mandriva past shows. Maybe it would be an opportunity to
start it then - there is non-free and tainted already. Having a repo for
such community-contributed software with a big UNSUPPORTED disclaimer would
be useful.

/* crawls back under his rock */

J.

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Thomas Backlund]

Jan Ciger skrev 26.11.2012 16:33:

Hello,

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Colin Guthrie mailto:mag...@colin.guthr.ie>> wrote:

Well you've clearly put a lot of work into this. While we have decided
in the short term to not support cinnamon, this is not necessarily a
"forever" decision, however at this stage of the release, it's likely
one that will not be able to be reverted until post-mga3, and even then
there is no guarantee.


I am jumping into the middle of this, so I am sure to get flamed, but
why not do the obvious thing and put it in contribs for the time being?
That should deal with the QA and support issues and at the same time the
work will not be lost. It would also let cinnamon mature a bit.




Ummm.. we dont have any "Contribs" media :)

--
Thomas

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Jan Ciger]

Hello,

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Colin Guthrie wrote:

> Well you've clearly put a lot of work into this. While we have decided
> in the short term to not support cinnamon, this is not necessarily a
> "forever" decision, however at this stage of the release, it's likely
> one that will not be able to be reverted until post-mga3, and even then
> there is no guarantee.
>

I am jumping into the middle of this, so I am sure to get flamed, but why
not do the obvious thing and put it in contribs for the time being? That
should deal with the QA and support issues and at the same time the work
will not be lost. It would also let cinnamon mature a bit.

Best,

Jan

[Mageia-dev] Distrib-coffee will down tonight

[Olivier Thauvin]

Due to electricity maintenance distrib-coffee will be done from 18H00
GMT to tomorrow 11H00 GMT.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Regards.

-- 

Olivier Thauvin
CNRS  -  LATMOS
♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖


pgp9UjmDbksOp.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [Mageia-dev] Repo down: repository fallback by default...

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi,


On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Johnny A. Solbu  wrote:

> On Monday 26. November 2012 14.50, Jehan Pagès wrote:
> > I just tried it again, all "Tainted *" mirror from JAIST are broken
>
> Mirroring «Tainted» is not required because it contains patented software,
> and in some countries distributing patented software without a patent
> license is illegal.
>
>
I see. Well would be nice to have a UI change to say this. Because the user
experience right now is not great (basically "damn the installation
fails"). :-)

Jehan


> --
> Johnny A. Solbu
> PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
>

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Colin Guthrie]

Hi,

[friendly request: please try and post in plain text to mailing lists -
makes it much easier when you're reading numerous different messages
every day to not have to adapt to the different styles]


Firstly thanks for your work.

'Twas brillig, and Joseph Wang at 26/11/12 13:38 did gyre and gimble:
> 
> 
> There has already been zillions of discussions about this. We will not
> have Cinnamon. We already have enough environments and not enough
> maintainers. And it will cause troubles maintaining different versions.
> 
> 
> I volunteer to maintain cinnamon.  I've already ported it from fedora. 
> I did
> it because no one told me not to do it.

Unfortunately this has been discussed a few times in the past on this
list. Your mentor should maybe have highlighted this to you when you
discussed packaging cinnamon with them. They maybe missed these
discussions also however.

> 
> Please try to follow this. An open source project does not mean anybody
> can do whatever he wants. We must keep some kind of logic and stay
> realistic given the resources we have at the moment.
> 
> 
> There's this thing about not pushing away resources that are being
> volunteered.

This is true, and there is no doubt that we need more resources, but in
this case it could cost more than it gains. We have had issues in the
past of the packages for these alternative DEs causing issues for the
core DEs due to the packages satisfying dep's required by the core packages.

So while you may have packaged Cinnamon and tested that *it* works, have
you tested it in a repository along with all the other packages we have,
installing e.g. a gnome install and double checking that none of the
cinnamon packages have been pulled in to satisfy deps (incorrectly)?

Perhaps you have, but the "resources" required to support a new DE is
not simply on the packaging. It's in the QA and it's in the testing of
the fallout to other installs when those packages simply exist in the
repos. This is what often takes the most resources.

There is a lot more to this than simply making a bunch of packages.

> I've packaged cinnamon because I want to install it on my own machine. I
> spent
> 10-12 hours a day taking orders from my boss, and working on community
> projects
> is the way that I relax.  If you want to use my work then that's great. 
> If it turns out
> that the X hours that I put into making cinnamon work on mageia is a
> waste, then
> I'll wipe mageia and install fedora or ubuntu or scientific linux or mint.
> 
> I have very little tolerance for politics or long winded discussions or
> strategy
> discussion.  I get enough of that in my day job.  I've just packaged
> cinnamon and
> nemo.  If someone says thank you, provides some suggestions for fixing
> things,
> and then takes it, I'll be happy.  If not, then I'll wipe my disk and
> work on another distro.
> 
> So what do you want me to do?

Well you've clearly put a lot of work into this. While we have decided
in the short term to not support cinnamon, this is not necessarily a
"forever" decision, however at this stage of the release, it's likely
one that will not be able to be reverted until post-mga3, and even then
there is no guarantee.

All of your work is in Subversion. I'm personally fine if they stay
there and are not svn rm'ed and you can continue to keep them up-to-date
as per your own uses should you wish.

If you are keen to push this through, then I'm afraid you likely will
have to get involved in discussions about it.


Also, if you really do wish to have this supported, then you should
likely keep on packaging and hopefully find some of the many
unmaintained packages to adopt and prove that you will be sticking
around for a while and not abandon maintenance in the future for
whatever reason.


Cheers

Col
-- 

Colin Guthrie
colin(at)mageia.org
http://colin.guthr.ie/

Day Job:
  Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/
Open Source:
  Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/
  PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/
  Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/

Re: [Mageia-dev] Repo down: repository fallback by default...

[Johnny A. Solbu]

On Monday 26. November 2012 14.50, Jehan Pagès wrote:
> I just tried it again, all "Tainted *" mirror from JAIST are broken

Mirroring «Tainted» is not required because it contains patented software, and 
in some countries distributing patented software without a patent license is 
illegal.

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [Mageia-dev] Repo down: repository fallback by default...

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi,


On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:

> 2012/11/26 Jehan Pagès :
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Jehan Pagès 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I am trying to install some software and get the error:
> >> <<
> >>  L'installation a échoué, certains fichiers sont manquants :
> >>
> >> rsync://
> ftp.tsukuba.wide.ad.jp/mageia/distrib/2/x86_64/media/tainted/release/mencoder-1.0-1.rc4.0.r34578.9.mga2.tainted.x86_64.rpm
> >> Vous devriez mettre à jour votre base de données urpmi.
> >>
> >> Essayer de continuer néanmoins ?
> >> >>
> >> (basically the rsync failed)
> >>
> >> So I guess the repo is down, hopefully temporarily. I went to the
> >> "configure media sources" UI and "add a specific media mirror" (was
> using
> >> the $MIRRORLIST default until now).
> >>
> >> [Side-note: the other mirror in Japan also had faulty tainted repos. I
> >> wonder if there is a problem with Japan politics maybe about tainted
> >> softwares?]
> >>
> >
> > About my side note, I realize today that Japanese servers seem still down
> > (or "again"? Since I used alternate servers since this problem I had
> weeks
> > ago, I don't know). Have Mageia's Japanese contributor abandonned Mageia?
> > Thanks.
>
> The mirror is not down, you are using a wrong address. The correct
> address for the Mageia mirror is
> ftp.tsukuba.wide.ad.jp/Linux/mageia/distrib/2/
> (in your link the /Linux/ is missing)
>
>
Thanks for the answer. That was a copy-paste I did at the time though, so
it was definitely

>  --
> wobo
>

Re: [Mageia-dev] Repo down: repository fallback by default...

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi,


On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:

> 2012/11/26 Jehan Pagès :
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Jehan Pagès 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I am trying to install some software and get the error:
> >> <<
> >>  L'installation a échoué, certains fichiers sont manquants :
> >>
> >> rsync://
> ftp.tsukuba.wide.ad.jp/mageia/distrib/2/x86_64/media/tainted/release/mencoder-1.0-1.rc4.0.r34578.9.mga2.tainted.x86_64.rpm
> >> Vous devriez mettre à jour votre base de données urpmi.
> >>
> >> Essayer de continuer néanmoins ?
> >> >>
> >> (basically the rsync failed)
> >>
> >> So I guess the repo is down, hopefully temporarily. I went to the
> >> "configure media sources" UI and "add a specific media mirror" (was
> using
> >> the $MIRRORLIST default until now).
> >>
> >> [Side-note: the other mirror in Japan also had faulty tainted repos. I
> >> wonder if there is a problem with Japan politics maybe about tainted
> >> softwares?]
> >>
> >
> > About my side note, I realize today that Japanese servers seem still down
> > (or "again"? Since I used alternate servers since this problem I had
> weeks
> > ago, I don't know). Have Mageia's Japanese contributor abandonned Mageia?
> > Thanks.
>
> The mirror is not down, you are using a wrong address. The correct
> address for the Mageia mirror is
> ftp.tsukuba.wide.ad.jp/Linux/mageia/distrib/2/
> (in your link the /Linux/ is missing)
>
>
Thanks for the answer. That was a copy-paste I did at the time though, so
it was definitely not me who explicitely wrote it. If I remember, this one
was what gave me the $MIRRORLIST at the time. Anyway that was not this
mirror I was speaking about in my email just now because it apparently
disappeared from the source management software! In the list of specific
mirror, there is now only 1 remaining Japanese mirror: JAIST.

I just tried it again, all "Tainted *" mirror from JAIST are broken (curl
fail). For instance:
http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/Linux/Mageia/distrib/2/x86_64/media/tainted/release

As I said the other day, if the only broken mirrors are the tainted ones
(all of them, and none of the rest), that may be on purpose. Shouldn't
someone contact JAIST?

Jehan

 --
> wobo
>

[Mageia-dev] Mailing-list archives and robots

[Sander Lepik]

I was trying to find something from dev-ml archives with google and
found nothing. Then i checked our archives source and found ''- is there some good reason for
"nofollow"? Or should i use something else to search our archives?

-- 
Sander

Re: [Mageia-dev] Why no totem-plugin-arte in Mageia ?

[Götz Waschk]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Jose Jorge  wrote:
>> I had packaged totem-plugin-arte for Mandriva, I can take a look at
>> it. I'm not running Cauldron though, so I cannot test it if I import
>> it. Anyone interested in testing a cauldron build?
Dear All,

totem-plugin-arte works fine on Mageia 2 but fails to build in Cauldron:
valac --library=arteplus7 arteplus7.vala arteparser.vala cache.vala
url-extractor.vala video.vala video-list-view.vala
connection-status.vala --pkg Totem-1.0 --pkg PeasGtk-1.0 --pkg
libsoup-2.4 --pkg gtk+-3.0 --pkg gio-2.0 -D DEBUG_MESSAGES -X -fPIC -X
-shared --Xcc="-D GETTEXT_PACKAGE=\"totem-arte\"" -g -o
libarteplus7.so
connection-status.vala:84.44-84.58: error: Argument 1: Cannot convert
from `ConnectionStatus.proxy_signal_cb' to `GLib.DBusProxy.g_signal'
this.NMProxy.g_signal.connect (proxy_signal_cb);
   ^^^

Regards, Götz

-- 
AL I:40: Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

[Mageia-dev] OpenVPN + auth-user-pass + systemd password agents (was: Re: OpenVPN missing PID dir)

[Colin Guthrie]

'Twas brillig, and Richard Couture at 26/11/12 03:02 did gyre and gimble:
> I didn't mean to open a can of worms, but since it's open ...

No worries. No worms here, just discussing some packaging related stuff.

> with script-security 2 added to the client.conf, openvpn starts just
> fine with the command   systemctl restart openvpn@client.service

Yes, the script-security stuff needs to go into the config. The sysvinit
script had a horrible hack to work around this not being there, but it's
really just that - a hack - and such black magic shouldn't be encouraged!

> UNTIL
> you add the parameter  auth-user-pass to the client.conf
> Once that param is added, openvpn refuses to start via systemD 

(small point, it's systemd, not systemD :))

> though it
> starts just fine via sys5
> [root@pwyr openvpn]# cd /etc/init.d/
> [root@pwyr init.d]# ./openvpn restart
> Shutting down openvpn: [  OK  ]
> Starting openvpn: Enter Auth Username:rrc
> Enter Auth Password:
>[  OK  ]
> Since were looking at openvpn, hopefully we can figure out what this is
> all about as this param is EXTREMELY important to harden the security of
> openvpn

Right, I guess this is simply because it's using a somewhat legacy
method of getting the password form the user...

It should really hook into the system used by other components to get
passwords from the user, including during early boot. This is used e.g.
to get the password for encrypted disk partitions and works nicely with
Plymouth for eye-candy as well as via the command line and even via
desktop environments if appropriate.

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PasswordAgents

I guess I'll need to look more into it to see what can be (or has been)
done to address this. It should be relatively simple in theory...

If you are a hacker, feel free to look into this! (I've not googled or
anything so perhaps someone has done this already)


Col

-- 

Colin Guthrie
colin(at)mageia.org
http://colin.guthr.ie/

Day Job:
  Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/
Open Source:
  Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/
  PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/
  Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon uploaded

[Sander Lepik]

26.11.2012 15:23, Joseph Wang kirjutas:
> Hi all,
>
> I've uploaded the packages needed to get cinnamon working with
> Mageia.  These include
>
> cinnamon
> nemo
> muffin
> task-cinnamon
>
> I don't have submission privileges so I'll need someone to review the
> packages and then kick
> off the build.
>
> It's a lot nicer than gnome3.   I'm in the process of trying to figure
> out how to package some
> extra themes and applets.
Hmm, have you missed that there will be no Cinnamon in Mageia repos?
Part of packagers "job" is to keep eye on the dev ml.
FYI: https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-November/020196.html

--
Sander

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Joseph Wang]

>
> There has already been zillions of discussions about this. We will not
> have Cinnamon. We already have enough environments and not enough
> maintainers. And it will cause troubles maintaining different versions.
>
>
I volunteer to maintain cinnamon.  I've already ported it from fedora.  I
did
it because no one told me not to do it.

Please try to follow this. An open source project does not mean anybody
> can do whatever he wants. We must keep some kind of logic and stay
> realistic given the resources we have at the moment.
>

There's this thing about not pushing away resources that are being
volunteered.

I've packaged cinnamon because I want to install it on my own machine. I
spent
10-12 hours a day taking orders from my boss, and working on community
projects
is the way that I relax.  If you want to use my work then that's great.  If
it turns out
that the X hours that I put into making cinnamon work on mageia is a waste,
then
I'll wipe mageia and install fedora or ubuntu or scientific linux or mint.

I have very little tolerance for politics or long winded discussions or
strategy
discussion.  I get enough of that in my day job.  I've just packaged
cinnamon and
nemo.  If someone says thank you, provides some suggestions for fixing
things,
and then takes it, I'll be happy.  If not, then I'll wipe my disk and work
on another distro.

So what do you want me to do?

Re: [Mageia-dev] Cinnamon uploaded

[Anne Nicolas]

Le 26/11/2012 14:23, Joseph Wang a écrit :

On 25/11/12 17:22, Liam R E Quin wrote:

On Sun, 2012-11-25 at 14:01 +, Anne Wilson wrote:


Since there's no identification in the message, all I could
suggest is a brute-force search of all files on the root or
/usr partitons for the string "ConsoleKit", which appears in
the error message. Then, identify the package which owns the
file using rpmdrake.


Makes sense.  The only problem is I don't know how to do that.  I
  tried to use a combination of cat and grep, but there is no
recursive flag, so that won't work.  How would you do it?


(1) grep -l -r ConsoleKit . this is easiest; -r is "recursive" But
it will cross file system boundaries, so if you do it from / it
will go into /use and /media and anywhere else it can find!

(2) find / /usr -type f -xdev -print0 | xargs -0 grep -l ConsoleKit
  This is the usual "find" approach. -type f means only print names
of files, not directories, symbolic links or device files... -xdev
means don't stray into other filesystems like /home -print0 is the
same as -print (prints each matching name) but prints the filenames
with a NUL (character 0, hence the 0 in -print0) after each name,
instead of putting each file on a separate line. This is needed
because of filenames containing spaces or newlines.

xargs reads a list of files, one per line, or, with -0 (again the
digit zero) separated by NUL bytes; it runs the command on each of
  the files

The -l option to grep says to print just the filename, needed in
case there are binaries that contain the string.


Perfect.  The 'find' returns

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/usr/share/doc/nautilus/NEWS
/usr/share/doc/dbus/NEWS
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Re: [Mageia-dev] Utter frustration

[Anne Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 25/11/12 17:22, Liam R E Quin wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-11-25 at 14:01 +, Anne Wilson wrote:
> 
>>> Since there's no identification in the message, all I could 
>>> suggest is a brute-force search of all files on the root or
>>> /usr partitons for the string "ConsoleKit", which appears in
>>> the error message. Then, identify the package which owns the
>>> file using rpmdrake.
>>> 
>> Makes sense.  The only problem is I don't know how to do that.  I
>>  tried to use a combination of cat and grep, but there is no 
>> recursive flag, so that won't work.  How would you do it?
> 
> (1) grep -l -r ConsoleKit . this is easiest; -r is "recursive" But
> it will cross file system boundaries, so if you do it from / it
> will go into /use and /media and anywhere else it can find!
> 
> (2) find / /usr -type f -xdev -print0 | xargs -0 grep -l ConsoleKit
>  This is the usual "find" approach. -type f means only print names
> of files, not directories, symbolic links or device files... -xdev
> means don't stray into other filesystems like /home -print0 is the
> same as -print (prints each matching name) but prints the filenames
> with a NUL (character 0, hence the 0 in -print0) after each name,
> instead of putting each file on a separate line. This is needed
> because of filenames containing spaces or newlines.
> 
> xargs reads a list of files, one per line, or, with -0 (again the 
> digit zero) separated by NUL bytes; it runs the command on each of
>  the files
> 
> The -l option to grep says to print just the filename, needed in
> case there are binaries that contain the string.
> 
Perfect.  The 'find' returns

/usr/lib/libpowerdevilcore.so.0.1.0
/usr/lib/packagekitd
/usr/lib/libpolkit-qt-core-1.so.1.103.0
/usr/bin/xdm
/usr/bin/gnome-session
/usr/share/doc/nautilus/NEWS
/usr/share/doc/dbus/NEWS
/usr/share/doc/networkmanager-applet/ChangeLog
/usr/share/doc/sane-backends-1.0.23/ChangeLog
/usr/share/doc/gnome-power-manager/NEWS
/usr/share/gtk-doc/html/gio/gdbus.html
/usr/share/gtk-doc/html/NetworkManager/ref-migrating.html
/root/.bash_history
/var/lib/mlocate/mlocate.db
/var/lib/rpm/Providename
/var/run.runmove~/ConsoleKit/database
/var/log/journal/2d49f2c66f3a45939d7973a4109a2e81/system@0004cf2cec30ebaa-f4cbcc04fef75c0b.journal~
/var/log/journal/2d49f2c66f3a45939d7973a4109a2e81/system@0004ce3e93292fec-435b91656aa64987.journal~
/etc/security/msec/perm.netbook
/etc/security/msec/perm.standard
/etc/security/msec/perm.webserver
/etc/security/msec/perm.fileserver
/etc/security/msec/perm.secure
/usr/lib/libpowerdevilcore.so.0.1.0
/usr/lib/packagekitd
/usr/lib/libpolkit-qt-core-1.so.1.103.0
/usr/bin/xdm
/usr/bin/gnome-session
/usr/share/doc/nautilus/NEWS
/usr/share/doc/dbus/NEWS
/usr/share/doc/networkmanager-applet/ChangeLog
/usr/share/doc/sane-backends-1.0.23/ChangeLog
/usr/share/doc/gnome-power-manager/NEWS
/usr/share/gtk-doc/html/gio/gdbus.html
/usr/share/gtk-doc/html/NetworkManager/ref-migrating.html

Anne
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Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/

iEYEARECAAYFAlCzb6IACgkQj93fyh4cnBdgsgCfe6W6EcvlGoAL9DcgRJs/KAup
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Re: [Mageia-dev] Repo down: repository fallback by default...

[Wolfgang Bornath]

2012/11/26 Jehan Pagès :
> Hi,
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Jehan Pagès 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to install some software and get the error:
>> <<
>>  L'installation a échoué, certains fichiers sont manquants :
>>
>> rsync://ftp.tsukuba.wide.ad.jp/mageia/distrib/2/x86_64/media/tainted/release/mencoder-1.0-1.rc4.0.r34578.9.mga2.tainted.x86_64.rpm
>> Vous devriez mettre à jour votre base de données urpmi.
>>
>> Essayer de continuer néanmoins ?
>> >>
>> (basically the rsync failed)
>>
>> So I guess the repo is down, hopefully temporarily. I went to the
>> "configure media sources" UI and "add a specific media mirror" (was using
>> the $MIRRORLIST default until now).
>>
>> [Side-note: the other mirror in Japan also had faulty tainted repos. I
>> wonder if there is a problem with Japan politics maybe about tainted
>> softwares?]
>>
>
> About my side note, I realize today that Japanese servers seem still down
> (or "again"? Since I used alternate servers since this problem I had weeks
> ago, I don't know). Have Mageia's Japanese contributor abandonned Mageia?
> Thanks.

The mirror is not down, you are using a wrong address. The correct
address for the Mageia mirror is
ftp.tsukuba.wide.ad.jp/Linux/mageia/distrib/2/
(in your link the /Linux/ is missing)

-- 
wobo

Re: [Mageia-dev] Repo down: repository fallback by default...

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi,


On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am trying to install some software and get the error:
> <<
>  L'installation a échoué, certains fichiers sont manquants :
> rsync://
> ftp.tsukuba.wide.ad.jp/mageia/distrib/2/x86_64/media/tainted/release/mencoder-1.0-1.rc4.0.r34578.9.mga2.tainted.x86_64.rpm
> Vous devriez mettre à jour votre base de données urpmi.
>
> Essayer de continuer néanmoins ?
> >>
> (basically the rsync failed)
>
> So I guess the repo is down, hopefully temporarily. I went to the
> "configure media sources" UI and "add a specific media mirror" (was using
> the $MIRRORLIST default until now).
>
> [Side-note: the other mirror in Japan also had faulty tainted repos. I
> wonder if there is a problem with Japan politics maybe about tainted
> softwares?]
>
>
About my side note, I realize today that Japanese servers seem still down
(or "again"? Since I used alternate servers since this problem I had weeks
ago, I don't know). Have Mageia's Japanese contributor abandonned Mageia?
Thanks.

Jehan

Re: [Mageia-dev] [Bug 8177] rm command can't delete file, unless using the full path for the rm binary "/bin/rm"

[Thierry Vignaud]

On 22 November 2012 16:27, EatDirt  wrote:
>> Or if you happy to run rm as it was written and risk deleting something
>> you didn't want too, then comment out the alias (and any others that get
>> on your nerves:) ) from /etc/profile.d/60alias.sh
>>
>
> :)
> did that too, old school, when I do rm, I want to do rm :)

\rm foo bar
/bin/rm foo bar

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release php-5.4.9-2.mga3

[Thierry Vignaud]

On 26 November 2012 09:33, Guillaume Rousse  wrote:
>> - remove pok crap
>
> This kind of comment is perfectly unadequate here. Moreover, it doesn't even
> give any clue to anyone reading the changelog about what kind of change it
> is.

http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/php/current/SPECS/php.spec?r1=321555&r2=321556

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release php-5.4.9-2.mga3

[Guillaume Rousse]

Le 24/11/2012 18:10, oden a écrit :

oden  3:5.4.9-2.mga3:
+ Revision: 321559
- maybe better configure line now...
- rebuild
- remove pok crap
This kind of comment is perfectly unadequate here. Moreover, it doesn't 
even give any clue to anyone reading the changelog about what kind of 
change it is.

--
BOFH excuse #4:

static from nylon underwear

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release timidity-patch-freepats-20060219-15.mga3

[Guillaume Rousse]

Le 26/11/2012 09:24, tv a écrit :

Description :
Freepats is a project to create a free and open set of GUS
compatible patches that can be used with softsynths such as
Timidity and WildMidi. They are verified to contain no non-free
restriction. Freepats is distributed under GPL v2 or later, with
the follow exception clause about the relation of MIDI composition
and patches:

=
As a special exception, if you create a composition which uses
these patches, and mix these patches or unaltered portions of
these patches into the composition, these patches do not by
themselves cause the resulting composition to be covered by the
GNU General Public License. This exception does not however
invalidate any other reasons why the document might be covered
by the GNU General Public License. If you modify these patches,
you may extend this exception to your version of the patches,
but you are not obligated to do so. If you do not wish to do so,
delete this exception statement from your version.
==

This patch set is of limited quality, because some instruments are
still missing. For personal use, feel free to use other patch sets
(such as eawpatches which has excellent quality, but the site is
no more), or other free soundfonts.

This seems a bit excessive as package description...


tv  20060219-15.mga3:
+ Revision: 321971
- fix group

hmmm :)

--
BOFH excuse #451:

astropneumatic oscillations in the water-cooling