Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On Thu, 2011-05-12 at 01:56 +0100, Zé wrote: > Seams your confused, plf freetype it simply put fonts worst,, thats > why i also never used plf freetype, maybe you should read some > mandriva discussions in ML. I normally use the plf freetype because it's so much better. And it's generally the answer given to people who don't like the default fonts in Mandriva Linux. Some people will prefer one, some the other. Choice is good ;) Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On Friday, 13 May 2011 17:28:24 Zé wrote: > 2011/5/13 Buchan Milne : > > On Friday, 13 May 2011 11:12:41 Zé wrote: > >> 2011/5/13 Zé : > >> > 2011/5/13 Dimitrios Glentadakis : > >> >> Στις Παρασκευή 13 Μάιος 2011 00:39:55 Zé γράψατε: > >> >>> 2011/5/12 Dick Gevers : > >> >>> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote > >> >>> > about > >> >>> > >> >>> perl -pi -e 's|#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER|/\* > >> >>> #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER \*/|' > >> >>> include/freetype/config/ftoption.h > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> dont forget to also increase Release to avoid conflicts with > >> >>> existant freetype2, and then build the package. > >> >> > >> >> Why do all these things when you can simply add an entry in the > >> >> font.conf file ? > >> > > >> > Thats a fact, but hat should happen is that freetype2 should have > >> > bytecode interpreter disabled by default, since so far users prefer > >> > it. > >> > >> Seams Fedora choosed to finally fix it, it reverted freetype2 with a > >> patch to disable bytecode interpreter. -> > >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=547532 > > > > No, this is not what is covered in this bug report. > > Yes, correct i miss understood what as the bug report about. > > > Firstly, here are the non-problems: > > 1)The bytecode interpreter *can* make fonts look better, *if* they have > > hinting in the fonts. Not all ttf fonts have hinting, but AFAIK all the > > MS fonts *do* have hinting. > > > > So, historically, the recommended approach was to use the PLF freetype > > *if* you had imported MS fonts (e.g. from a dual-boot Windows > > installation). > > Well i always avoid using PLF freetype and for what i have read in > ML's all the users that answered to it said that also avoid PLF > freetype. > > So far for hat i have seen, all users prefered like fonts were > rendered wen patents were still valid... Were *all* these users using *hinted* fonts? I think they weren't using hinted fonts at all. > > 2)The Freetype autohinter was implemented later, and improves things for > > unhinted fonts, but hinted fonts still looked better with the bytecode > > interpreter. > > > > > > This is the problem: > > 3)If the bytecode interpreter was enabled, auto-hinting was disabled (or, > > could be, for 'medium' and 'heavy' hinting settings) for unhinted fonts. > > > > The Fedora bug isn't about disabling the bytecode interpreter, but by > > still allowing auto-hinting for unhinted fonts if the bytecode > > interpreter. > > > > *This* is the right fix. Your insistence to *disable* the bytecode > > interpreter (leaving users with *no* options, in case they need hinted > > fonts) is the wrong fix. > > Well this way users cant also set to have autohint, seams theres > always some app failing. ? We need to apply the patch that enables the autohinter for unhinted fonts, even if the bytecode interpreter is enabled, that is available from the bug report for which you provided the link. > Why not having it disabled by default? So, you haven't read what I wrote in (3)? > users will always be able to > set their preferences about using or not autohint, but that way > ensures that all fonts are better rended. No, you ignore the case where some hinted fonts are almost unusable without the bytecode interpreter, and others where they are rendered better. > All this came up after patents end in wich showed users how fonts > appear poor rended, until that point i didnt saw any complains about > fonts, and this is what should be fixed. You contradict yourself ... and you can't make blanket statements of "how fonts appear poor rended", as it depends on the font (and whether it is hinted or not). Regards, Buchan
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On 13 May 2011 12:09, Buchan Milne wrote: > > No, this is not what is covered in this bug report. > > Firstly, here are the non-problems: > 1)The bytecode interpreter *can* make fonts look better, *if* they have > hinting in the fonts. Not all ttf fonts have hinting, but AFAIK all the MS > fonts *do* have hinting. > > So, historically, the recommended approach was to use the PLF freetype *if* > you had imported MS fonts (e.g. from a dual-boot Windows installation). > > 2)The Freetype autohinter was implemented later, and improves things for > unhinted fonts, but hinted fonts still looked better with the bytecode > interpreter. > > > This is the problem: > 3)If the bytecode interpreter was enabled, auto-hinting was disabled (or, > could be, for 'medium' and 'heavy' hinting settings) for unhinted fonts. > > The Fedora bug isn't about disabling the bytecode interpreter, but by still > allowing auto-hinting for unhinted fonts if the bytecode interpreter. > > *This* is the right fix. Your insistence to *disable* the bytecode interpreter > (leaving users with *no* options, in case they need hinted fonts) is the wrong > fix. > > But, thanks for the pointer to the bug, which points to the patches. Anssi has already added that patch to the Mageia freetype2 package about 2-3 months ago. [...] -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
2011/5/13 Buchan Milne : > On Friday, 13 May 2011 11:12:41 Zé wrote: >> 2011/5/13 Zé : >> > 2011/5/13 Dimitrios Glentadakis : >> >> Στις Παρασκευή 13 Μάιος 2011 00:39:55 Zé γράψατε: >> >>> 2011/5/12 Dick Gevers : >> >>> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote about > >> >>> perl -pi -e 's|#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER|/\* >> >>> #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER \*/|' >> >>> include/freetype/config/ftoption.h >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> dont forget to also increase Release to avoid conflicts with existant >> >>> freetype2, and then build the package. >> >> >> >> Why do all these things when you can simply add an entry in the >> >> font.conf file ? >> > >> > Thats a fact, but hat should happen is that freetype2 should have >> > bytecode interpreter disabled by default, since so far users prefer >> > it. >> >> Seams Fedora choosed to finally fix it, it reverted freetype2 with a >> patch to disable bytecode interpreter. -> >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=547532 > > No, this is not what is covered in this bug report. Yes, correct i miss understood what as the bug report about. > Firstly, here are the non-problems: > 1)The bytecode interpreter *can* make fonts look better, *if* they have > hinting in the fonts. Not all ttf fonts have hinting, but AFAIK all the MS > fonts *do* have hinting. > > So, historically, the recommended approach was to use the PLF freetype *if* > you had imported MS fonts (e.g. from a dual-boot Windows installation). Well i always avoid using PLF freetype and for what i have read in ML's all the users that answered to it said that also avoid PLF freetype. So far for hat i have seen, all users prefered like fonts were rendered wen patents were still valid... > 2)The Freetype autohinter was implemented later, and improves things for > unhinted fonts, but hinted fonts still looked better with the bytecode > interpreter. > > > This is the problem: > 3)If the bytecode interpreter was enabled, auto-hinting was disabled (or, > could be, for 'medium' and 'heavy' hinting settings) for unhinted fonts. > > The Fedora bug isn't about disabling the bytecode interpreter, but by still > allowing auto-hinting for unhinted fonts if the bytecode interpreter. > > *This* is the right fix. Your insistence to *disable* the bytecode interpreter > (leaving users with *no* options, in case they need hinted fonts) is the wrong > fix. Well this way users cant also set to have autohint, seams theres always some app failing. Why not having it disabled by default? users will always be able to set their preferences about using or not autohint, but that way ensures that all fonts are better rended. All this came up after patents end in wich showed users how fonts appear poor rended, until that point i didnt saw any complains about fonts, and this is what should be fixed. > But, thanks for the pointer to the bug, which points to the patches. > >> Why dont we also do the same thing? >> >> Since theres users complaining about it, why not solve it once for all? > > Regards, > Buchan > -- Zé
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On Friday, 13 May 2011 11:12:41 Zé wrote: > 2011/5/13 Zé : > > 2011/5/13 Dimitrios Glentadakis : > >> Στις Παρασκευή 13 Μάιος 2011 00:39:55 Zé γράψατε: > >>> 2011/5/12 Dick Gevers : > >>> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote about > >>> perl -pi -e 's|#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER|/\* > >>> #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER \*/|' > >>> include/freetype/config/ftoption.h > >>> > >>> > >>> dont forget to also increase Release to avoid conflicts with existant > >>> freetype2, and then build the package. > >> > >> Why do all these things when you can simply add an entry in the > >> font.conf file ? > > > > Thats a fact, but hat should happen is that freetype2 should have > > bytecode interpreter disabled by default, since so far users prefer > > it. > > Seams Fedora choosed to finally fix it, it reverted freetype2 with a > patch to disable bytecode interpreter. -> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=547532 No, this is not what is covered in this bug report. Firstly, here are the non-problems: 1)The bytecode interpreter *can* make fonts look better, *if* they have hinting in the fonts. Not all ttf fonts have hinting, but AFAIK all the MS fonts *do* have hinting. So, historically, the recommended approach was to use the PLF freetype *if* you had imported MS fonts (e.g. from a dual-boot Windows installation). 2)The Freetype autohinter was implemented later, and improves things for unhinted fonts, but hinted fonts still looked better with the bytecode interpreter. This is the problem: 3)If the bytecode interpreter was enabled, auto-hinting was disabled (or, could be, for 'medium' and 'heavy' hinting settings) for unhinted fonts. The Fedora bug isn't about disabling the bytecode interpreter, but by still allowing auto-hinting for unhinted fonts if the bytecode interpreter. *This* is the right fix. Your insistence to *disable* the bytecode interpreter (leaving users with *no* options, in case they need hinted fonts) is the wrong fix. But, thanks for the pointer to the bug, which points to the patches. > Why dont we also do the same thing? > > Since theres users complaining about it, why not solve it once for all? Regards, Buchan
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
2011/5/13 Zé : > 2011/5/13 Zé : >> Thats a fact, but hat should happen is that freetype2 should have >> bytecode interpreter disabled by default, since so far users prefer >> it. > Seams Fedora choosed to finally fix it, it reverted freetype2 with a > patch to disable bytecode interpreter. -> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=547532 > Why dont we also do the same thing? > Since theres users complaining about it, why not solve it once for all? > -- > Zé > Hello, Is this thread asking to _disable_ bytecode interpreter? Please don't do that. Bacause pdf which embedded with Windows Chinese fonts will look like this if you disabled bytecode interpreter: http://hyperrate.com/thread.php?tid=680 For years we have to either rebuild freetype, or use plf package. Since there's no patent problems now, I beg you, seriously, please do not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype. Sincerely, You-Cheng Hsieh
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
2011/5/13 Zé : > 2011/5/13 Dimitrios Glentadakis : >> Στις Παρασκευή 13 Μάιος 2011 00:39:55 Zé γράψατε: >>> 2011/5/12 Dick Gevers : >>> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote about Re: >>> > [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?: >>> > >>> >>When someone like me, has this problem of fonts, he cannot even use his >>> >>system, he has a real problem. It costed me many uninstalls and installs >>> >>and many hours of investigation. >>> >> >>> >>For that i asked a user friendly solution, is very important for them who >>> >>are affected. >>> >> >>> >>Personnaly, after all, i am able now to set my pc to fit my needs but i >>> >>continue to search a solution for other users who will be front of this >>> >>problem in the future >>> > >>> > I can only make one suggestion - which works for me: keep the version one >>> > is happy with and put the packages in the urpmi skip.list and you won't >>> > get >>> > hurt by an upgrade. >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > =Dick Gevers= >>> > >>> >>> You always rebuild the freetype2 package, to do soedit the .spec file, >>> in the section %prep add this: >>> >>> perl -pi -e 's|#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER|/\* >>> #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER \*/|' >>> include/freetype/config/ftoption.h >>> >>> >>> dont forget to also increase Release to avoid conflicts with existant >>> freetype2, and then build the package. >>> >>> >> >> >> Why do all these things when you can simply add an entry in the font.conf >> file ? > > Thats a fact, but hat should happen is that freetype2 should have > bytecode interpreter disabled by default, since so far users prefer > it. Seams Fedora choosed to finally fix it, it reverted freetype2 with a patch to disable bytecode interpreter. -> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=547532 Why dont we also do the same thing? Since theres users complaining about it, why not solve it once for all? -- Zé
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
2011/5/13 Dimitrios Glentadakis : > Στις Παρασκευή 13 Μάιος 2011 00:39:55 Zé γράψατε: >> 2011/5/12 Dick Gevers : >> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote about Re: >> > [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?: >> > >> >>When someone like me, has this problem of fonts, he cannot even use his >> >>system, he has a real problem. It costed me many uninstalls and installs >> >>and many hours of investigation. >> >> >> >>For that i asked a user friendly solution, is very important for them who >> >>are affected. >> >> >> >>Personnaly, after all, i am able now to set my pc to fit my needs but i >> >>continue to search a solution for other users who will be front of this >> >>problem in the future >> > >> > I can only make one suggestion - which works for me: keep the version one >> > is happy with and put the packages in the urpmi skip.list and you won't get >> > hurt by an upgrade. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > =Dick Gevers= >> > >> >> You always rebuild the freetype2 package, to do soedit the .spec file, >> in the section %prep add this: >> >> perl -pi -e 's|#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER|/\* >> #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER \*/|' >> include/freetype/config/ftoption.h >> >> >> dont forget to also increase Release to avoid conflicts with existant >> freetype2, and then build the package. >> >> > > > Why do all these things when you can simply add an entry in the font.conf > file ? Forgot to refer that even when you set it in .fonts.conf you will still have it in some situations, check http://www.webmasterkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/opera-linux/2140/disabling-bytecode-interpreter-font-rendering > -- > Dimitrios Glentadakis > -- Zé
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
2011/5/13 Dimitrios Glentadakis : > Στις Παρασκευή 13 Μάιος 2011 00:39:55 Zé γράψατε: >> 2011/5/12 Dick Gevers : >> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote about Re: >> > [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?: >> > >> >>When someone like me, has this problem of fonts, he cannot even use his >> >>system, he has a real problem. It costed me many uninstalls and installs >> >>and many hours of investigation. >> >> >> >>For that i asked a user friendly solution, is very important for them who >> >>are affected. >> >> >> >>Personnaly, after all, i am able now to set my pc to fit my needs but i >> >>continue to search a solution for other users who will be front of this >> >>problem in the future >> > >> > I can only make one suggestion - which works for me: keep the version one >> > is happy with and put the packages in the urpmi skip.list and you won't get >> > hurt by an upgrade. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > =Dick Gevers= >> > >> >> You always rebuild the freetype2 package, to do soedit the .spec file, >> in the section %prep add this: >> >> perl -pi -e 's|#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER|/\* >> #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER \*/|' >> include/freetype/config/ftoption.h >> >> >> dont forget to also increase Release to avoid conflicts with existant >> freetype2, and then build the package. >> >> > > > Why do all these things when you can simply add an entry in the font.conf > file ? Thats a fact, but hat should happen is that freetype2 should have bytecode interpreter disabled by default, since so far users prefer it. > -- > Dimitrios Glentadakis > -- Zé
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
Στις Παρασκευή 13 Μάιος 2011 00:39:55 Zé γράψατε: > 2011/5/12 Dick Gevers : > > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote about Re: > > [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?: > > > >>When someone like me, has this problem of fonts, he cannot even use his > >>system, he has a real problem. It costed me many uninstalls and installs > >>and many hours of investigation. > >> > >>For that i asked a user friendly solution, is very important for them who > >>are affected. > >> > >>Personnaly, after all, i am able now to set my pc to fit my needs but i > >>continue to search a solution for other users who will be front of this > >>problem in the future > > > > I can only make one suggestion - which works for me: keep the version one > > is happy with and put the packages in the urpmi skip.list and you won't get > > hurt by an upgrade. > > > > Cheers, > > =Dick Gevers= > > > > You always rebuild the freetype2 package, to do soedit the .spec file, > in the section %prep add this: > > perl -pi -e 's|#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER|/\* > #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER \*/|' > include/freetype/config/ftoption.h > > > dont forget to also increase Release to avoid conflicts with existant > freetype2, and then build the package. > > Why do all these things when you can simply add an entry in the font.conf file ? -- Dimitrios Glentadakis
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
2011/5/12 Dick Gevers : > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote about Re: > [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?: > >>When someone like me, has this problem of fonts, he cannot even use his >>system, he has a real problem. It costed me many uninstalls and installs >>and many hours of investigation. >> >>For that i asked a user friendly solution, is very important for them who >>are affected. >> >>Personnaly, after all, i am able now to set my pc to fit my needs but i >>continue to search a solution for other users who will be front of this >>problem in the future > > I can only make one suggestion - which works for me: keep the version one > is happy with and put the packages in the urpmi skip.list and you won't get > hurt by an upgrade. > > Cheers, > =Dick Gevers= > You always rebuild the freetype2 package, to do soedit the .spec file, in the section %prep add this: perl -pi -e 's|#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER|/\* #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER \*/|' include/freetype/config/ftoption.h dont forget to also increase Release to avoid conflicts with existant freetype2, and then build the package. -- Zé
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:20:39 +0200, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote about Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?: >When someone like me, has this problem of fonts, he cannot even use his >system, he has a real problem. It costed me many uninstalls and installs >and many hours of investigation. > >For that i asked a user friendly solution, is very important for them who >are affected. > >Personnaly, after all, i am able now to set my pc to fit my needs but i >continue to search a solution for other users who will be front of this >problem in the future I can only make one suggestion - which works for me: keep the version one is happy with and put the packages in the urpmi skip.list and you won't get hurt by an upgrade. Cheers, =Dick Gevers=
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
2011/5/12 Antoine Pitrou > On Thu, 12 May 2011 01:56:25 +0100 > Zé wrote: > > Seams your confused, plf freetype it simply put fonts worst,, > > Please don't mistake your opinions for facts. > As a user, I have always installed the PLF freetype (and I am still > enjoying it on the very machine I am typing this message on) because the > default Mandriva rendering was horrible to me. Not everyone shares the > same opinions about font rendering. > > Back to lurking > > Antoine. > > > Before the 2009.1 , i used plf rpm but i did nt have any problem: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=36173 The plf package, i dont understand why since the 2009.1, breaks my system fonts in a very significant way. I have Greek localization. My wife, with the same version of Mandriva in her laptop but with French localization did nt have any complain. So the aspect of the fonts has to depend to the localization, the fonts and may be their size and the screen size. When someone like me, has this problem of fonts, he cannot even use his system, he has a real problem. It costed me many uninstalls and installs and many hours of investigation. For that i asked a user friendly solution, is very important for them who are affected. Personnaly, after all, i am able now to set my pc to fit my needs but i continue to search a solution for other users who will be front of this problem in the future -- Dimitrios Glentadakis
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On Thu, 12 May 2011 01:56:25 +0100 Zé wrote: > Seams your confused, plf freetype it simply put fonts worst,, Please don't mistake your opinions for facts. As a user, I have always installed the PLF freetype (and I am still enjoying it on the very machine I am typing this message on) because the default Mandriva rendering was horrible to me. Not everyone shares the same opinions about font rendering. Back to lurking Antoine.
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
Seams your confused, plf freetype it simply put fonts worst,, thats why i also never used plf freetype, maybe you should read some mandriva discussions in ML. Dont get why your refering PLF, i didnt refered it in this thread. 2011/5/12 Anssi Hannula : > On 12.05.2011 03:33, Zé wrote: >> Until bytecode interpreter wasnt enabled, there wasnt complains about >> how fonts look. >> >> So can you explain why werent there complain untill bytecode was enabled? >> Seams you only know to say that i dont know how fonts looks best in >> other users eyes, well seams obvious, no? >> Else wouldnt be there any complain. > > They didn't complain because they simply used PLF freetype. > > -- > Anssi Hannula > -- Zé
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On 12.05.2011 03:33, Zé wrote: > Until bytecode interpreter wasnt enabled, there wasnt complains about > how fonts look. > > So can you explain why werent there complain untill bytecode was enabled? > Seams you only know to say that i dont know how fonts looks best in > other users eyes, well seams obvious, no? > Else wouldnt be there any complain. They didn't complain because they simply used PLF freetype. -- Anssi Hannula
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
2011/5/11 Ahmad Samir : > On 11 May 2011 14:03, Zé wrote: >> Yes i also agree that should exist this option, and AFAIK when patents >> were still active, it was needed to turn bytecode interpreter, and in >> that time fonts were smooth, speacially for whos used to use small >> fonts, but even for who uses bigger fonts, its always better to not >> have bytecode interpreter > > How do you know what would look better for those who use bigger fonts > if you use small fonts yourself? :) I also can change to bigger fonts... > How do you know what would look better for other users who use small > fonts but different types of monitors, have different eyesight, i.e. > different preferences of how fonts looks best in their eyes? Until bytecode interpreter wasnt enabled, there wasnt complains about how fonts look. So can you explain why werent there complain untill bytecode was enabled? Seams you only know to say that i dont know how fonts looks best in other users eyes, well seams obvious, no? Else wouldnt be there any complain. >> (by the way, still in mandriva 2010.1 >> bytecode interpreter was off). >> > > Because the patent hadn't expired yet when 2010.1 was released, and > 2010.1 still uses freetype2-2.3.12 (and no one enabled the BCI after > the patent expired). Thats was to show that until there werent any complains about font rendering, and that all started when bytecode interpreter was enabled (im not discussing patents) >> 2011/5/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis : >>> Στις Τετάρτη 11 Μάιος 2011 05:57:07 Zé γράψατε: In mandriva sincepatent expiration in freetype, fonts display wasnt smoth anymore and appeared ugly fonts, this used to exist just in plf.. But since theres no patents issues pending, why not old rendering algorithms by default (disable bytecode interpreter), that way fonts will have a better rendering and look. This is most true for guys that are used to use small fonts, for example im used to use Sans size 8, like its now in mageia, they dont look very good and also appear smaller that if using bytecode interpreter disabled, so to be able to have a good rendering font look, i always repackage freetype2. Why not Mageia start using also bytecode interpreter disabled by default? >>> >>> >>> I reported a wish here: >>> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1240 >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dimitrios Glentadakis >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zé >> > > > > -- > Ahmad Samir > -- Zé
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On 11 May 2011 14:03, Zé wrote: > Yes i also agree that should exist this option, and AFAIK when patents > were still active, it was needed to turn bytecode interpreter, and in > that time fonts were smooth, speacially for whos used to use small > fonts, but even for who uses bigger fonts, its always better to not > have bytecode interpreter How do you know what would look better for those who use bigger fonts if you use small fonts yourself? :) How do you know what would look better for other users who use small fonts but different types of monitors, have different eyesight, i.e. different preferences of how fonts looks best in their eyes? > (by the way, still in mandriva 2010.1 > bytecode interpreter was off). > Because the patent hadn't expired yet when 2010.1 was released, and 2010.1 still uses freetype2-2.3.12 (and no one enabled the BCI after the patent expired). > 2011/5/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis : >> Στις Τετάρτη 11 Μάιος 2011 05:57:07 Zé γράψατε: >>> In mandriva sincepatent expiration in freetype, fonts display wasnt >>> smoth anymore and appeared ugly fonts, this used to exist just in >>> plf.. >>> >>> But since theres no patents issues pending, why not old rendering >>> algorithms by default (disable bytecode interpreter), that way fonts >>> will have a better rendering and look. >>> >>> This is most true for guys that are used to use small fonts, for >>> example im used to use Sans size 8, like its now in mageia, they dont >>> look very good and also appear smaller that if using bytecode >>> interpreter disabled, so to be able to have a good rendering font >>> look, i always repackage freetype2. >>> >>> Why not Mageia start using also bytecode interpreter disabled by default? >>> >> >> >> I reported a wish here: >> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1240 >> >> >> >> -- >> Dimitrios Glentadakis >> > > > > -- > Zé > -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
Yes i also agree that should exist this option, and AFAIK when patents were still active, it was needed to turn bytecode interpreter, and in that time fonts were smooth, speacially for whos used to use small fonts, but even for who uses bigger fonts, its always better to not have bytecode interpreter (by the way, still in mandriva 2010.1 bytecode interpreter was off). 2011/5/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis : > Στις Τετάρτη 11 Μάιος 2011 05:57:07 Zé γράψατε: >> In mandriva sincepatent expiration in freetype, fonts display wasnt >> smoth anymore and appeared ugly fonts, this used to exist just in >> plf.. >> >> But since theres no patents issues pending, why not old rendering >> algorithms by default (disable bytecode interpreter), that way fonts >> will have a better rendering and look. >> >> This is most true for guys that are used to use small fonts, for >> example im used to use Sans size 8, like its now in mageia, they dont >> look very good and also appear smaller that if using bytecode >> interpreter disabled, so to be able to have a good rendering font >> look, i always repackage freetype2. >> >> Why not Mageia start using also bytecode interpreter disabled by default? >> > > > I reported a wish here: > https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1240 > > > > -- > Dimitrios Glentadakis > -- Zé
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
Στις Τετάρτη 11 Μάιος 2011 05:57:07 Zé γράψατε: > In mandriva sincepatent expiration in freetype, fonts display wasnt > smoth anymore and appeared ugly fonts, this used to exist just in > plf.. > > But since theres no patents issues pending, why not old rendering > algorithms by default (disable bytecode interpreter), that way fonts > will have a better rendering and look. > > This is most true for guys that are used to use small fonts, for > example im used to use Sans size 8, like its now in mageia, they dont > look very good and also appear smaller that if using bytecode > interpreter disabled, so to be able to have a good rendering font > look, i always repackage freetype2. > > Why not Mageia start using also bytecode interpreter disabled by default? > I reported a wish here: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1240 -- Dimitrios Glentadakis
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On 11 May 2011 05:57, Zé wrote: > In mandriva sincepatent expiration in freetype, fonts display wasnt > smoth anymore and appeared ugly fonts, this used to exist just in > plf.. > > But since theres no patents issues pending, why not old rendering > algorithms by default (disable bytecode interpreter), Because upstream enables them by default, and they do know more about their own code. > that way fonts > will have a better rendering and look. > Different people, different eyes, different preferences. What looks good to you doesn't necessarily look good for the rest of the population :) > This is most true for guys that are used to use small fonts, for > example im used to use Sans size 8, like its now in mageia, they dont > look very good and also appear smaller that if using bytecode > interpreter disabled, so to be able to have a good rendering font > look, i always repackage freetype2. > Same as above, I think. And since you can spin your own packages so it's not a problem for you... > Why not Mageia start using also bytecode interpreter disabled by default? > -- > Zé > -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] why not disable bytecode interpreter in freetype2 ?
On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 04:57 +0100, Zé wrote: > In mandriva sincepatent expiration in freetype, fonts display wasnt > smoth anymore and appeared ugly fonts, this used to exist just in > plf.. Note that whether fonts are "ugly" is very subjective, and also varies depending on one's eyes. For example, people who wear glasses will often prefer their text *not* to be antialiased, especially when the screen resolution is under 150 dpi and the viewing distance is under 18 inches / 0.5 metres) or so. > But since theres no patents issues pending, why not old rendering > algorithms by default (disable bytecode interpreter), that way fonts > will have a better rendering and look. For some fonts and for many (most?) people, this will look worse. > > This is most true for guys that are used to use small fonts, for > example im used to use Sans size 8 I can't even see size 8 on my laptop without a magnifying glass. Not because of my vision, but because 8pt text gives letterforms that for lower case x-height is typically 1.4mm -and 8px gives me 0.7mm high letters. You can turn off the bytecode interpreter, e.g. using gnome in preferences/appearance under fonts/details, or in fonts.conf, but you can't turn it back on if it was disabled at compilation time. You can also turn off antialiasing and sub-pixel positioning. Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
