Re: [Mailman-Developers] before next release: disable backscatter indefault installation
--On 4 March 2008 17:08:52 -0800 Jo Rhett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the former, then you must object to DSNs from MTAs as well. If the latter, that is planned to be addressed in Mailman 2.2. Of course we object to DSNs from MTAs. No shipping mailserver currently sends DSNs to accepted mail by default. Most of them haven't for like 10 years. And yes, we absolutely ban qmail from use unless the person patches it to the moon to solve its problems. +1 The one reason that I'm looking for an alternative to Mailman is the lack of adequate integration with MTAs, which means that there is no sensible thing that I can do with suspected spam. What I need to be able to do is reject it at SMTP time, based on list post permissions and other configuations - I need to be able to query the configuration from my MTA (Exim). Holding for moderation and discarding are not adequate solutions, but holding for moderation by default would be a good intermediate step. -- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex x3148 ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI redux
yOn Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 05:57:42PM -0500, Ethan Fremen wrote: Barry said in an earlier message that there's no web UI for mm3: my first impulse is to start on something there. I'm interested in working on a REST-style interface for controlling Mailman. One thought: should the web UI be written atop such a REST interface? Pro: it would nicely enforce decoupling the UI and the Mailman engine, and be a good test that the REST interface supports enough functionality. Con: adds an extra layer. (A sketch of the REST interface is in the wiki at http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/REST+Interface . It's written from the 2.1/2.2 point of view; I don't know if mm3 reworks the basic objects so much that the REST interface no longer applies.) --amk ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Developers] Documentation status?
What's the status of the Mailman documentation, and where is the master copy now? The LaTeX source for the docs isn't in the Bazaar repository, beyond a copy in the Japanese translation (./messages/ja/doc/mailman-member.tex). The wiki page at http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+List+Administrators+Manual says I (Terri) am currently in the process of importing the 2.1 documentation from latex, but there are many missing sections. Is the plan to migrate everything into the wiki? And where does the current LaTeX master live? --amk ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Documentation status?
On 5-Mar-08, at 2:53 PM, A.M. Kuchling wrote: What's the status of the Mailman documentation, and where is the master copy now? The LaTeX source for the docs isn't in the Bazaar repository, beyond a copy in the Japanese translation (./messages/ja/doc/mailman-member.tex). The wiki page at http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+List+Administrators +Manual says I (Terri) am currently in the process of importing the 2.1 documentation from latex, but there are many missing sections. Is the plan to migrate everything into the wiki? And where does the current LaTeX master live? The plan is to migrate all of the docs to the wiki, in hopes that someone someday might help me write them. ;) The master latex file is probably the one on my hard drive/checked into source control (uhh, it was in svn, but it might not have made it to bazaar, in which case, that's my bad and I'll see what I can do), but despite the note, I think I have mostly imported it into the wiki so you can take those as final for now. I'll double check when I get home tonight. I should probably finish writing the docs, but I'm currently hampered by a cyst in my right hand that makes it fairly hard to type right now, so it's kinda limited my ability to participate in much online at the moment. I've been thinking about the mailman docs lately, though (because I looked at them after Jennifer's post about dynamic sublists and was depressed to realise that I hadn't written the section she wanted yet). I'm getting adept at typing with a wrist brace on despite the temporary disability, so poke the docs again after this weekend and I may have the admin docs much further along. Really! If I don't get distracted trying to write a new archive system. (no, really, I have notes on that too!) Terri ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Documentation status?
On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 03:53:21PM -0500, Terri Oda wrote: The master latex file is probably the one on my hard drive/checked into source control (uhh, it was in svn, but it might not have made it to bazaar, in which case, that's my bad and I'll see what I can do), ... Thanks! Looking in SVN, the files are in docs/howtos/ (http://mailman.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/trunk/mailman/docs/howtos/), but there's no docs/ subdirectory in the Bazaar repository. ... but despite the note, I think I have mostly imported it into the wiki so you can take those as final for now. I'll double check when I get home tonight. If you haven't imported everything, I'm happy to do the necessary reformatting of LaTeX into Wiki markup. I've done it before, and simple reformatting is easy to do while I watch TV. If that would be useful, please feel free to e-mail me the latest LaTeX versions. --amk ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Documentation status?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 5, 2008, at 2:53 PM, A.M. Kuchling wrote: What's the status of the Mailman documentation, and where is the master copy now? Hi Andrew, The masters are in Bazaar but they're not in the main code repository. I split them off, along with the website source and release/admin scripts into this repository: https://code.launchpad.net/~mailman-administrivia/mailman- administrivia/admin Of course, I'm happy to give you and Terri write permission to this repository if you want. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPHUUACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGd0wCgof+hT1JPyhT+mGSMZa0NObQe kBoAoIhbPxnWjfb32Bjg+xuVqrLnHTXl =UOgw -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Documentation status?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 5, 2008, at 3:53 PM, Terri Oda wrote: I should probably finish writing the docs, but I'm currently hampered by a cyst in my right hand that makes it fairly hard to type right now, so it's kinda limited my ability to participate in much online at the moment. I've been thinking about the mailman docs lately, though (because I looked at them after Jennifer's post about dynamic sublists and was depressed to realise that I hadn't written the section she wanted yet). I'm getting adept at typing with a wrist brace on despite the temporary disability, so poke the docs again after this weekend and I may have the admin docs much further along. Really! If I don't get distracted trying to write a new archive system. (no, really, I have notes on that too!) Terri, sorry to hear about your hand! I hope you recover soon. I like having docs in the wiki because it lets more people contribute. The downside is that you can't reach it when you're offline and it's harder to publish in alternative media. Have you thought at all about how to handle that? - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPHgoACgkQ2YZpQepbvXFfGQCfdbK1fL7HtgC4Vv6KJ/oWgBxW RyEAoLFed0b+keSzUlGc+rV1RDEOECCc =kvVn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI redux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 5, 2008, at 8:36 AM, A.M. Kuchling wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 05:57:42PM -0500, Ethan Fremen wrote: Barry said in an earlier message that there's no web UI for mm3: my first impulse is to start on something there. I'm interested in working on a REST-style interface for controlling Mailman. One thought: should the web UI be written atop such a REST interface? Pro: it would nicely enforce decoupling the UI and the Mailman engine, and be a good test that the REST interface supports enough functionality. Con: adds an extra layer. I'm really keen on exploring this because I do think the decoupling will be a big win. It'll let us distribute a turnkey, standalone u/i for those who want something working out of the box, but it'll also let integrators use the core Mailman engine in their own sites. And it won't limit you to just Python web frameworks. (A sketch of the REST interface is in the wiki at http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/REST+Interface . It's written from the 2.1/2.2 point of view; I don't know if mm3 reworks the basic objects so much that the REST interface no longer applies.) I think if we're careful we can get pretty close. Ideally, we'd have the same REST api for both, which would give us a nice migration path, but I don't yet know if that's feasible. MM3 does have a more elaborate data model than MM2, but OTOH, everything is formally declared in Zope-style interfaces (and thoroughly tested... woohoo!). One thing that we have to figure out is how to represent all the metadata that currently lives in the Mailman.Gui package of 2.1/2.2. I think any web interface acting through the REST api will want that basic information, e.g. the brief and detailed descriptions of the mailing attributes (the VARHELP). I'm sure there's a clear way to publish that through the REST api, but it might have an impact on the format used. I like JSON a lot, but html or xml might be more amenable to that type of data. OTOH, it's all read-only so it might make sense to split it into two trees of information. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPIY8ACgkQ2YZpQepbvXG3fACdEve/fgFm5D+6b5YNN7kbyezr gOAAoKdZoACLH1Blcz9deQDqso2kTHcl =0Dn9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] before next release: disable backscatter indefault installation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 5, 2008, at 12:27 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Cristóbal Palmer writes: Even without the original message text a response is a problem. I agree -- the addresses are too easy to compute and do end up in lists that are sold -- and would support consideration of changing the defaults as proposed. But not for 2.1.10. Changing 2.1.10 is dumb software engineering and hysterical policy. You see, as Jo Rhett points out (apparently without understanding), it will have *no noticable effect* in the short run because *the proposed change won't affect existing Mailman installations*, not even those that upgrade to 2.1.10. So the right thing to do is to get 2.1.10 out the door as is, and get started on 2.2. Then you can even discuss shutting off the feature in *existing* installations and requiring admins of *existing* installations to reactivate the feature if they want it.[1] That would very likely have noticeable effect *much sooner* than the change proposed for 2.1.10, and would be much less disruptive. Mark's the release manager for 2.1, but FWIW I completely agree with Stephen about this. What I would suggest though is that this information be put in a prominent place on the wiki. We have a security space with nothing substantial in it, so I suggest we put it here. http://wiki.list.org/display/SEC/Home This will get much more publicity and community input than in a README file. This is something you can do right now wink. We need to get 2.1.10 out and move on. I hope Jo, Cristobal, Ian and others will help us solve these problems in MM2.2 and 3.0. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPJKcACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGicQCeMN5dv4sutxfUfzvL1FHNzZp1 McAAoIGPH+NOxU+nzOrlzV4egzw8EYtg =d5ci -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] before next release: disable backscatter indefault installation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 4, 2008, at 8:13 PM, Cristóbal Palmer wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 03:28:22PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: The Defaults.py setting for DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION has been Hold from the beginning. We've recently set this to 3 (Discard) for new lists. Please explain the argument for keeping the default as Hold for the long term. I believe it should be Discard, but can think of at least one argument for keeping the current default. I'd like to hear development team's line. More and more lists are requiring membership for posting privileges, so I'm sympathetic to this change (but not for 2.1!). OTOH, I think there are ways that we can do this but still relax the constraint for well-known non-members. For example, in MM3 the data model has been improved so that you have a single user object that ties in all your subscriptions. No more multiple passwords or options (unless you want the latter), no more multiple accounts for each of your email addresses. What if in the future, your site had 1400 lists, the membership databases of which were driven from your site's membership rosters. Now, someone you've never heard of before posts to one of your lists. You probably discard this (although there /are/ arguments to be made for some lists holding these messages instead). But let's say that I join your site and register an email address. Now I post to one of your lists which I haven't explicitly subscribed to. But you know me so do you discard the message, hold it, or let it through? Let's say you hold it, and a list admin approves it, saying hey this guy looks legit. Let's say you do this 5 times across 3 different lists. I'm probably not a spammer, right? So maybe now I can post to all your lists without being held. Anyway, it's things like this that I think can be used to help reduce spamming on the list while letting legitimate traffic through, without Mailman becoming spamassassin. OTOH, in MM3 it'll be much easier to integrate something like spamassassin than it is in MM2. I'm not saying that's a /good/ thing since spam still is better off getting caught in the MTA, but this kind of thing is possible. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPJycACgkQ2YZpQepbvXHQ8ACgiMNs46R8OcItJtjoCAbIQHaO a2AAnif160xr7GhjOWWQ6Qvcxle7f70R =TyH6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] before next release: disable backscatter indefault installation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 5, 2008, at 5:33 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote: The one reason that I'm looking for an alternative to Mailman is the lack of adequate integration with MTAs, which means that there is no sensible thing that I can do with suspected spam. What I need to be able to do is reject it at SMTP time, based on list post permissions and other configuations - I need to be able to query the configuration from my MTA (Exim). Ian, I think that alternative is going to be Mailman 3 :). How do you see Exim asking that question? I can see several ways of doing it in Mailman 3. 1) you could call into a Python library that can answer that question; 2) you could use some kind of RPC such as the REST api that Andrew's been talking about; 3) you could make the appropriate queries directly to the Mailman database, which is based on SQLite currently but can be anything that Storm can talk to. Is that the kind of thing you want to do? - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPJ/gACgkQ2YZpQepbvXEQNgCfQqZlZIt6kFyb+2MrQcteth1j q/8AnRqG8QjGqwBR0y/IQpFZMxBeiupW =eR4z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] 1-click unsubscribe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 2, 2008, at 6:03 PM, Dan MacNeil wrote: However, lots of people use it for newsletters/announcements because it is the tool at hand. Adding things like 1-click unsubscribe will make mailman a better tool for these accidental uses and (as far as I can see) not hurt it for discussion lists. Announce-only lists are common even in the FLOSS world, where I think people are more clueful about mailing lists in general. Certainly Mailman has a history of catering to FLOSS project needs, but I think it is worthwhile to explore the use cases for announce lists, and try to understand how to make their lives easier. I'm all for doing whatever we can to help smaller community organizations get a better tool. With Mailman 3 we'll be able to implement list styles much more easily, not just in the way lists are configured, but throughout the stack, including the pipeline handlers and the posting rules. I think the right way to do this is to have a few canned styles that you can use easily to enable things like 1-click unsubscribes. I generally don't like 1-click unsubs but I recognize that this is an important use case in the real world, and it's probably better to have the risk of people getting unsub'd against their will than to have the entire site get blacklisted from AOL because of a cluser. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPKeUACgkQ2YZpQepbvXE7JgCdGfnHVtwiifsBiE3kXsG9W4O9 I70An2MhQ5kGLpfsGtys8VVM16n6uuMs =1rCs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] 1-click unsubscribe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 2, 2008, at 8:31 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: Then my next question is do you have experience with lists that do implement a 1-click unsubscribe, and do you find it actually works? My experience (see http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-February/017851.html ) is that it doesn't work well, but I'm willing to listen to other input. Interesting! I'd like to hear other input as well. It may be one of those cases where it works differently depending on the audience, but it's one of those checkboxes you have to tick in order to even get in the door. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPKr0ACgkQ2YZpQepbvXHjUgCgmnHZ3jYzx4wyD2AzEk3ESBd8 0uAAn3+vPaRRtd1Ft3/bPBMC8dotmqH+ =g71L -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] 1-click unsubscribe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 4, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Cristóbal Palmer wrote: On Sun, Mar 02, 2008 at 11:31:03PM -0500, Dan MacNeil wrote: Since 2005, things have gotten a bit more ruthless on the anti-spam front, Particularly at the large providers so lists.ibiblio.org currently hosts 566 lists. We are constantly having to deal with mail providers who blacklist us because their users find it easier to tag mailing list posts as spam than follow the unsubscribe process. One problem is that mail readers often make it much easier to tag something as spam then to use the RFC 2369 header to actually present a button to unsubscribe. If David Ascher is at PyCon, I'm going to bribe him to add this to Thunderbird by default. :) - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPK60ACgkQ2YZpQepbvXHZ4ACdFHvkne4N32PYodeGTl/fZWwX cocAnip/mx1edhJP7c2BlgVQdyJ/V5z8 =moTw -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Developers] 2008 Pizzigati Prize
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I realize that I've been remiss in announcing this. My apologies. I have been awarded the 2008 Pizzigati Prize for Public Interest Computing for GNU Mailman. http://www.pizzigatiprize.org/ I am deeply honored to win this prize because I believe very strongly in Mailman's role in helping people communicate and organize. I want to thank all of you who have supported me and Mailman over the years, and I want to let you know that I am as excited as ever about where Mailman is going. One of the most satisfying aspects of this project for me has been meeting you, the users, developers and contributors to Mailman, both online and face-to-face. I'm looking forward to meeting the Pizzigati family and having some time to spend with them learning about Anthony's remarkable life, sadly cut too short. So again, thank you all and I'm looking forward to the next 10 years of GNU Mailman! Cheers, - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPLpcACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGgwwCbB/PjbX7rSiI0xwKjJ7jPpjgJ kuMAoIfeC0j0+4f8l0GEOp2gYc7a+8MI =Y7nZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] 1-click unsubscribe
On 4-Mar-08, at 11:15 AM, Cristóbal Palmer wrote: IMHO, moving the unsubscribe or edit options to the top of the listinfo page or making it its own page by default would go a long way towards alleviating this problem. +1 Most of my problems went away when I changed it so unsubscribe was on the button (it used to be just edit options and boy, that was fun), but I'm sure we can make this page more useable. We actually already have a separate page, that's just not linked: try looking at the options page without an email address and it's almost exactly what users would probably want: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers Maybe we should just advertise that link more heavily somehow? I think that's the page most subscribers *actually* want, so maybe that's the one that should appear in the default footers? I've actually had the weird but insightful opportunity to watch other people use mailman because I'm maintaining an installation at the university, and I've been learning a lot about the web interface that I didn't realise... it's been very interesting, since I had never been anywhere near my subscribers and list admins before. Terri ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] 1-click unsubscribe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Terri Oda wrote: | We actually | already have a separate page, that's just not linked: try looking at | the options page without an email address and it's almost exactly | what users would probably want: | | http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers Any objections to changing the URL in the RFC 2369 List-Unsubscribe: header to the above - for 2.1.10? I could probably also suppress the Error: No address given message unless you came from options login page itself. - -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) iD8DBQFHz3JNVVuXXpU7hpMRAgXsAJ4wgNI18bNWPC5fZC+gLml8x5BnzgCg8ZLd 2O9ry0MZtB+MEJg1gvh451Y= =BMHU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] 1-click unsubscribe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: Any objections to changing the URL in the RFC 2369 List-Unsubscribe: header to the above - for 2.1.10? I could probably also suppress the Error: No address given message unless you came from options login page itself. I only wonder though if it'll be frustrating or confusing that a user will have to enter their email address in the section above that button? OTOH, this page does make a better landing for the List- Unsubscribe header than the listinfo page. +1 - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPdA8ACgkQ2YZpQepbvXF1iwCfQBtdnXQ8Fw5hVZ8fvLIke/iY 96MAn07jUbR9QRBQDI/+WnOxBJ4qMr5i =5wzM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
