Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

David Andrews writes:

 > Some other list software, I believe, has a feature that sends out a 
 > canned message once a month, such as list rules.  I would like to see 
 > this in MM3

-1.  This is mission creep.  A cron job will serve perfectly well.

Something that assists in setting up such cron jobs (and/or
generalizes to whatever weirdness Windows does instead of cron jobs)
would be good as a contrib module, of course.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

[David Andrews]

At 03:01 PM 4/1/2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

s...@pobox.com wrote:
>
>At any rate, that solves one problem but creates another, right?  In MM3 how
>will you weed out bad email addresses?  Again, this may already be accounted
>for somehow.  If so, I'd be happy to learn how you do it without attempting
>to send email to an address then process the bounces.


If the list is active and the user's delivery is enabled, The list's
bounce processing should take care of ultimately removing bouncing
members. If it doesn't, the list's bounce processing needs to be
adjusted.

The dead addresses of concern, are those for which the user or admin
disabled delivery before the address died. We have talked about some
kind of periodic mailing from the list to all members. If we have such
a thing, a bounce of that mail could identify such addresses.



Some other list software, I believe, has a feature that sends out a 
canned message once a month, such as list rules.  I would like to see 
this in MM3 as I would like to send people the rules once a month, 
and not all my lists are that active, but still need to be in place 
and used occasionally.


Dave




--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Developers] MM3 WUI :: Memberships Management

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Adam McGreggor writes:

 > I'm wondering if with MM3, admins will be able to delegate the various
 > aspects of admin-tasks to owners/other users -- e.g., I want to be
 > able to allow person X to just be able to add/remove users from a
 > given list; I want to allow person Y to be able to change archiving
 > policies for list B.
 > 
 > Is that something that's in the pipeline, already?
 > 
 > If not, could it be? (my python really is quite terrible.)

You seem to know what you want.  So why don't you write a spec, maybe
design and even mockup screenshots?  This is really important.

One of the things I really hate about Zope 2 is the complexity of the
delegation mechanism (the "security" tab in the ZMI).  Let's please
avoid that!

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Add mail to database

[Mark Sapiro]

On 4/1/2010 3:35 AM, Илья Чистяков wrote:
> Hello I want to store mails in database, so, can you explain in what module
> emails are filtered? After that I can implement my "add-mail-to-database"
> function. For example, then unregistred user send a message. Sincerely,
> Elias.


I am not sure what you are asking. If you want to know where in
Mailman's processing a message can be held for approval, rejected or
discarded, the answer is in several places depending on the specific reason.

The global pipeline handlers SpamDetect, Moderate, Hold, MimeDel,
Scrubber and Emergency can all hold, reject or discard a message
depending on the message and the list configuration.

If you want to store in your database only those messages which have
been accepted for the list, consider using an external archiver to do
this. See the documentation in Defaults.py for PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER
and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER. Also, see the FAQ at
.

If you'd rather not depend on the lists having archiving turned on,
consider adding a custom handler to the pipeline somewhere between
Emergency and the end. See the FAQ at .

If what you are looking for is a way to store all incoming mail
regardless of disposition, i.e., ahead of any filtering, consider adding
a custom handler to the beginning of the pipeline.

Finally, if what you want is a way to store only held, discarded and
rejected mail, you'd probably need to do this in the exception handling
of the _dopipeline() function in IncomingRunner.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

[Mark Sapiro]

s...@pobox.com wrote:
>
>At any rate, that solves one problem but creates another, right?  In MM3 how
>will you weed out bad email addresses?  Again, this may already be accounted
>for somehow.  If so, I'd be happy to learn how you do it without attempting
>to send email to an address then process the bounces.


If the list is active and the user's delivery is enabled, The list's
bounce processing should take care of ultimately removing bouncing
members. If it doesn't, the list's bounce processing needs to be
adjusted.

The dead addresses of concern, are those for which the user or admin
disabled delivery before the address died. We have talked about some
kind of periodic mailing from the list to all members. If we have such
a thing, a bounce of that mail could identify such addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

[skip]

Barry> Or how about we just get rid of them? :)

I wasn't sure what you meant until I saw Mark's reply.  I guess I wasn't
listening to the silence between the notes. ;-)

At any rate, that solves one problem but creates another, right?  In MM3 how
will you weed out bad email addresses?  Again, this may already be accounted
for somehow.  If so, I'd be happy to learn how you do it without attempting
to send email to an address then process the bounces.

Skip

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

[Mark Sapiro]

s...@pobox.com wrote:

>Perhaps this is on the feature request list already, or better yet, Barry
>borrowed Guido's time machine when I wasn't looking, however...


As barry already noted, there will be no reminders in MM 3.


>I help administer a number of python.org mailing lists.  MM sends out
>subscription reminders on the first of each month.  This inevitably leads to
>a huge number of mail bounces many of which MM doesn't understand.


MM does not try to understand them because it can't handle them
automatically. See the FAQ at 


>The
>python.org postmaster folk then get to go in and manually remove a ton of
>email addresses.  (Looks like about 100 this month.  I'm sure other sites
>have to handle many more such bounces.)  I don't know how to automate this.
>The best thing I can think of to do is to write an Emacs macro which copies
>a highlighted email address, pops over to a shell mode window ssh'd into
>mail.python.org and runs remove_members with the given address.  That's
>still more manual than I would like, but given the variability in bounce
>formats that seems about as good as I can do without expending a lot of
>effort.
>
>I realize that getting Mailman to grok more rejection notice formats is a
>worthwhile goal,


Mailman probably already can recognize almost all of these. The problem
is not in the recognition, it's in what to do about them. In addition
to the info in the above FAQ, there's lots of detail about this in
comments in Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Developers] MM3 WUI :: Memberships Management

[Adam McGreggor]

Hiya,

I've had a search through the Wiki, and can't see an answer to this,
and don't recall anything in the archive/can't get the right search
terms.

I'm wondering if with MM3, admins will be able to delegate the various
aspects of admin-tasks to owners/other users -- e.g., I want to be
able to allow person X to just be able to add/remove users from a
given list; I want to allow person Y to be able to change archiving
policies for list B.

Is that something that's in the pipeline, already?

If not, could it be? (my python really is quite terrible.)

-- 
``What lawyers call intellectual property is
  no more than theft from the public domain.''  (Andy Mueller-Maguhn)
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

[Barry Warsaw]

On Apr 01, 2010, at 11:59 AM, s...@pobox.com wrote:

>I realize that getting Mailman to grok more rejection notice formats is a
>worthwhile goal, however I think it would also be helpful to spread the pain
>of invalid email addresses more evenly through the month, at least across
>mailing lists but ideally within mailing lists.  Notification day for any
>given email might be
>
>ord(email[0]) % 28 + 1
>
>This would be close enough for gummint work (the 29th, 30th and 31st would
>be declared to be postmaster holidays).

Or how about we just get rid of them? :)

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 11:59:05AM -0500, s...@pobox.com wrote:
> Perhaps this is on the feature request list already, or better yet, Barry
> borrowed Guido's time machine when I wasn't looking, however...
> 
> I help administer a number of python.org mailing lists.  MM sends out
> subscription reminders on the first of each month.  This inevitably leads to
> a huge number of mail bounces many of which MM doesn't understand.  The
> python.org postmaster folk then get to go in and manually remove a ton of
> email addresses.  (Looks like about 100 this month.  I'm sure other sites
> have to handle many more such bounces.)  I don't know how to automate this.
> The best thing I can think of to do is to write an Emacs macro which copies
> a highlighted email address, pops over to a shell mode window ssh'd into
> mail.python.org and runs remove_members with the given address.  That's
> still more manual than I would like, but given the variability in bounce
> formats that seems about as good as I can do without expending a lot of
> effort.

shove all the postmaster@ mails into one mailbox, and...

awk/grep the email addresses and list name as a (c|t)sv'd line; select a list, 
and
feed the email addresses to remove_members ?

(maybe doing a check on the body content, too)

cron that to happen at $interval, on Mailman-day +n, perhaps?

I don't really have this problem, but very few of my lists (I think it
may be ~300 now) send reminders.

-- 
``Should not the Society of Indexers be known as Indexers, Society of, The?''
  (Keith Waterhouse)
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[Mailman-Developers] MM feature request - spread out the pain

[skip]

Perhaps this is on the feature request list already, or better yet, Barry
borrowed Guido's time machine when I wasn't looking, however...

I help administer a number of python.org mailing lists.  MM sends out
subscription reminders on the first of each month.  This inevitably leads to
a huge number of mail bounces many of which MM doesn't understand.  The
python.org postmaster folk then get to go in and manually remove a ton of
email addresses.  (Looks like about 100 this month.  I'm sure other sites
have to handle many more such bounces.)  I don't know how to automate this.
The best thing I can think of to do is to write an Emacs macro which copies
a highlighted email address, pops over to a shell mode window ssh'd into
mail.python.org and runs remove_members with the given address.  That's
still more manual than I would like, but given the variability in bounce
formats that seems about as good as I can do without expending a lot of
effort.

I realize that getting Mailman to grok more rejection notice formats is a
worthwhile goal, however I think it would also be helpful to spread the pain
of invalid email addresses more evenly through the month, at least across
mailing lists but ideally within mailing lists.  Notification day for any
given email might be

ord(email[0]) % 28 + 1

This would be close enough for gummint work (the 29th, 30th and 31st would
be declared to be postmaster holidays).

-- 
Skip Montanaro - s...@pobox.com - http://www.smontanaro.net/
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[Mailman-Developers] Add mail to database

[Илья Чистяков]

Hello I want to store mails in database, so, can you explain in what module
emails are filtered? After that I can implement my "add-mail-to-database"
function. For example, then unregistred user send a message. Sincerely,
Elias.
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