Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15: Improving styles for lists

2015-03-21 Thread prakhar joshi
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org
wrote:

 Abhilash Raj writes:

Admin can change there values.
  
   You meant 'their' here and not 'there'.

 (-: Lighten up on the spelling stuff.  *I* make that typo regularly
 (I think I mostly manage to correct it before posting, I hope :-).

 You're right about reviewing the language, though.  I had no idea what
 Prakhar (@prakhar126: is that your preferred form of address?) was
 talking about.  Thanks for the translation!


Prakhar is fine. yeah prakhar126 is my email address.


I will have table for style which will be having only changed
attributes in it and rest of the attributes will be null.

 I'm not a fan of this API using nulls.  I would prefer a special value
 of inherit or defer to indicate that omission of a value is
 deliberate.  (This can be hidden from end users.)


So you want to store only changed attributes under a specific list style in
the table ? Isn't that make the table dynamic in width as sometimes only
one attribute is stored and sometimes 3-4 attributes are stored ?


 It's possible that None (or NULL in the backing store) is an
 appropriate way to implement inherit, but only if concrete styles
 (that is, styles that are actually part of a mailing list) have all
 attributes required.  I don't see how this is possible if we want to
 allow for extensibility by users.


By extensibility you mean to add new attributes ? or add new class as there
are few classes in the mailman/src/mailma/styles/base.py (but that can't be
possible through web interface, I guess? )


For example if admin has changed the attribute
send_welcome_message under discussion and other attribute like
advertise under public list then these two attributes with
their values defined by admin will be stores under the list style
name and rest all the attributes which have been there in the
mailinglist table will be null for the list style table. Now by
using apply function on list style table the values of attributes
will be overwritten on the mailing list table when admin apply
that list.

 I don't understand when apply happens.  I'm guessing that the
 proposal is to have a stack of styles in the configuration UI:

 { name: list specific, read-only: no, notmetoo_default: no }
 { name: anonymous_overlay, read-only: yes, redact_all_addresses: yes }
 { name: discussion, read-only: yes, usual discussion list options ... }


If there are more than 1 attributes in the last section of above list style
configuration then the list table will not have the same width ?


 where unspecified attributes are inherit, and when the admin is
 done, they hit an apply button, which searches the stack from top down
 and takes the first non-inherit value found.  The constructed
 configuration is validated for all required options being set.
 Finally, the list configuration is instantiated in the list table.


unspecified attributes ? You mean attributes other than that of mailing
list table ?


Only admin will be able to change the settings and by having user
section I mean we have to specify the admin of each style so that
at time of showing present styles for a particular admin we will
fetch only styles with that admin name from the style table, as
we don't want other (admins) to change saved styles for
particular admin. That is why admin field is essential in the
style table.

 Lists may have multiple admins AFAIK.  I think the list field I
 propose above is a better construct.


Yeah that read only and editable thing will be better and no need to add
user_id for each list style.


   If we create styles for ease-of-implementation of Admins and Moderators,
   it is required that we support some level of authorization to edit/use
   those styles. So for that purpose each style create would belong to a
   `User` and can only be viewed/edited by him. Ideally it would be nice if
   we could set different access levels for styles, like public, read_only,
   private.

 I thought about this for a few minutes, and I think we need a concrete
 schema and some use cases.  For example, I don't see why styles would
 need to be private.  And although I used read-only myself, I just
 meant writing not authorized.  One could also simply have all styles
 be read only once registered (unused locally-defined styles could be
 garbage-collected or explicitly deleted).


yeah that's the main objective.


   This is not the association of users with styles, it is just
   meant for authorization purpose.

 Sure, users are always about authorization in this kind of
 application.  My point is that there are too many kinds of user in
 the mailing list context, and that in Mailman 3, ordinary subscribers
 are included when we talk about user in the sense used in the code.


Here by user I mean admins and I will take care of it in future to be
specific.

I think we are still

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15: Improving styles for lists

2015-03-21 Thread prakhar joshi
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 9:10 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org
wrote:

 I think we're pretty much in agreement on most things.  Please update
 your proposal on melange to reflect this discussion.  (The quoting has
 gotten too fragmented to be very useful in understanding what progress
 has been made.)


Okay Will include all the key points discussed here in the proposal and
will update it on milange .
Thanks,
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15: Improving styles for lists

2015-03-21 Thread prakhar joshi
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org
wrote:

 prakhar joshi writes:

   So you want to store only changed attributes under a specific list
   style in the table ? Isn't that make the table dynamic in width as
   sometimes only one attribute is stored and sometimes 3-4 attributes
   are stored ?

 That's a feature of object-relational managers (ORM) like SQLAlchemy.
 In the background there will be a special value in the backing RDBMS
 such as 'inherit' or perhaps NULL.  But NULL is risky because it has
 assorted interpretations.


Yeah we will put values in the backing of RDBMS like the default values and
not NULL.


   By extensibility you mean to add new attributes ?

 Attributes.


See we have a lot of attributes in mailing list table so admin can create
extra attribute other than those or admin will just play with the present
attributes in mailman3 mailinglist table. (I am considering the later one)


   or add new class as there are few classes in the
   mailman/src/mailma/styles/base.py (but that can't be possible
   through web interface, I guess? )

 Anything's possible, but Zope's experience with that level of
 through-the-web extensibility was pretty bad.  We don't need it.


{ name: list specific, read-only: no, notmetoo_default: no }
{ name: anonymous_overlay, read-only: yes, redact_all_addresses: yes }
{ name: discussion, read-only: yes, usual discussion list options
 ... }
   
  
   If there are more than 1 attributes in the last section of above list
 style
   configuration then the list table will not have the same width ?

 I'm not sure what you're asking.  Tables have to have the same width
 by definition.  You use NULLs or other special values to simulate
 absence of a value, or a table join with optional attributes in a
 separate table.  Object-oriented DBs can have different attributes for
 each object.


Yeah we will add other special values(like the default values) to simulate
the absence of a value in style table.


   unspecified attributes ? You mean attributes other than that of mailing
   list table ?

 No, I mean the attributes I was too lazy to write in the schematic
 example above.

   I think we are still not on same page for list style storage as
   still there are few things that I have in my mind like admin can't
   create its own new attribute, he/she can just change the value of
   the attribute, right ?

 Probably.  What I had in mind was that site admins could add new
 Handlers that define attributes that aren't in the standard set, or
 somebody could want to import a style from a later version of Mailman
 that has such attributes.


See we have all the attributes in mailinglist table for list settings and
in the Handler we pick some set of attributes which are in mailing list
table and combine these attributes in a style name. right ? So that if
admin applied that style then the attributes set in that style will be
overwritten in the mailinglist table, Am I right ?


   And if that is true(admin can't add new attributes) than how can we
   just store only changed/modified attributes in the styles table as
   than the table will not have same width, lets assume for style A we
   will store one attributes and for style B we will store two/more
   attribute.

 To create attributes on the fly is easy, even in RDBMS.  You have a
 table user_defined_attributes with columns foreign_key, attribute_id,
 and attribute_value.  Then do a select on the foreign key.

   Basically the style table will be copy of mailing list table and
   will have same number of column same as mailing list table with one
   more column about permission (read_only or editable).

 You need to be more careful about this.  I'm not sure exactly how this
 is implemented in Mailman 3, but a mailing list has attributes (such
 as the owner and the moderator list) that are not relevant to styles.
 There is going to be a question of whether to refactor the list schema
 into a stylable part and a list-specific part (so that the
 stylable part is literally a copy of the style) or to copy the
 individual attributes from styles to the list configuration.


In mailman3 the mailinglist table contains all the attribute so we will
copy only those attributes in the style table that are related to
styles(settings ) of the list only. Yeah I should have mentioned that
before.

Basically I was trying to store a style directly with its name, permission
and attributes like reply to address,send welcome message (Admin will
define values of these attributes and rest will have default values in the
style table) and when a style is applied to any list than these attributes
will be overwritten on the mailing list table from style table. This is the
way I was trying to store the style ( a very basic model for storing
styles) Now we will have the generic way to copy the attributes from a
particular style to the mailing list. I hope I am clear

[Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15

2015-03-21 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
  I am prakhar (pjoshi) . I have submitted my proposal on melenge site.
Hoping for feedback.

thanks,
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15: Improving styles for lists

2015-03-20 Thread prakhar joshi
hi Abhilash,

Thanks for all these corrections.


Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Abhilash Raj raj.abhila...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi Prakhar,

 I see that you mentioned below the details of our conversation, but the
 language looks confusing to me. Please look out for simple mistakes in
 your English before sending the mail, not just here but anywhere.


I will definitely take care of it in future.

 On Friday 20 March 2015 12:37 PM, prakhar joshi wrote:
  hi,
   For the storage of list we will have table for list styles and when
  the admin creates a new list he/she will edit some attributes of
 particular
  list. By attribute I mean the options under each mailing list style like
  announce list have allow list post. Admin can change there values.

 You meant 'their' here and not 'there'.


Yes.


  style table will have all the attributes(same attributes that are listed
 in
  mailing list table) in column but the values of attributes that user will
  change will be stored in the table and rest values will be null. With
  improving the apply method for styles we can over write the present
  settings of the mailing list. I hope this is making sense to you ?

 What he means to say is we can create a generic Style class, another
 implementation of IStyle interface which instead of having static values
 of attributes like existing styles would have methods to dynamically
 fetch the stored styles from database. This new class would have all the
 attributes of a MailigList class that can be customized using list
 styles ( we can leave out attributes like list_name, list_id).


yeah, that is what I want to say.



  I will have table for style which will be having only changed attributes
 in
  it and rest of the attributes will be null. For example if admin has
  changed the attribute send_welcome_message under discussion and other
  attribute like advertise under public list then these two attributes
 with
  their values defined by admin will be stores under the list style name
 and
  rest all the attributes which have been there in the mailinglist table
 will
  be null for the list style table. Now by using apply function on list
 style
  table the values of attributes will be overwritten on the mailing list
  table when admin apply that list.
 
  Only admin will be able to change the settings and by having user
 section I
  mean we have to specify the admin of each style so that at time of
 showing
  present styles for a particular admin we will fetch only styles with that
  admin name from the style table, as we don't want other (admins) to
 change
  saved styles for particular admin. That is why admin field is essential
 in
  the style table.

 If we create styles for ease-of-implementation of Admins and Moderators,
 it is required that we support some level of authorization to edit/use
 those styles. So for that purpose each style create would belong to a
 `User` and can only be viewed/edited by him. Ideally it would be nice if
 we could set different access levels for styles, like public, read_only,
 private.


Yeah we can provide option these options to admin.


  prakhar joshi writes:
 
what if we create separate tables for each class in the
mailman/src/mailman/styles/base.py and store the name and their
  attributes
in it with user_name with it.
 
  Who are these users (subscribers? admins?) and why do you want to
  associate styles with users?  Please use more descriptive terms unless
  you really need to describe something generic.  But here IIRC the
  styles are for lists, and therefore the relevant users are list
  admins.  However, why would a style be associated with a list admin?
  The same admin might have announce lists and discussion lists as well
  as anonymous lists, and so on.

 This is not the association of users with styles, it is just meant for
 authorization purpose. Also `user_id` would be better option to use as a
 ForeignKey instead of `user_name` which is an optional argument for `User`.


Yeah, basically we need to relate each style with its owner so user_id will
be more appropriate.



 --
 thanks,
 Abhilash


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15: Improving styles for lists

2015-03-19 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 so we should have templates already created in a folder with default
values of the attributes in it. the templates will be of BASIC OPERATION,
BOUNCES etc. and  under each of the template we will gonna have
attributes for it and then we can apply these templates on the list and
even user can edit these templates, right ?

One thing how these templates will be stored for the user is still a doubt
for me ? Can you please help me with that ?

Thanks,

Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org
wrote:

 prakhar joshi writes:

I am thinking of storing the styles in the database by creating a
   table for the styles in the db

 Mailman's databases are not relational dbs, they're object-oriented.
 Underneath the objects are stored in relational dbs and managed by an
 ORM (SQLAlchemy), of course, but the Mailman API is object-based.

 If you want to think of your schema in terms of tables, I don't think
 you'll have any trouble in design, but when you get to the
 implementation stage you'll have to shift gears to OODB style.

   and this table will contain all the attributes of a style and these
   entries can be null too. So a table which will contain a style name
   with all its attributes. Now as we have table for mailing list
   containing all the attributes in the mailing list table. So now the
   style table will contain all these attributes and in the mailing
   list table we will just store the mailing list name and the style
   name and this way we  can connect the two table by providing foreign
   key of style_id to the mailing list table?

 I think this is probably not the best way to go.  Some of the
 attributes change over time, some attributes flip back and forth, and
 so on.  Some lists may have a unique combination not very useful for
 other lists/list owners.  So I think a library of templates so that
 you can set many attributes at once by applying a template is a better
 way to go.  Also, I suspect it would be useful to allow very incomplete
 templates so that you could apply template A to get the basic
 character, then apply template B (which is very incomplete and only
 changes two attributes) to get the effect you want.

 I haven't thought about it carefully, so don't just assume everything
 I wrote is right.  Maybe it will be useful for refining your proposal.



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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15: Improving styles for lists

2015-03-19 Thread prakhar joshi
what if we create separate tables for each class in the
mailman/src/mailman/styles/base.py and store the name and their attributes
in it with user_name with it. I think the attributes for the classes
defined already will be fixed? So now if we feel the requirement of
including new things to style (like an additional class in that file ) Then
we will add new table for that also. And now the flow will be like.. the
mailing list table will be same as right now. And each of the new table we
will get the attributes filled by the admin. So the list styles will be
stored in that way. And we have user name also so only that user will get
the styles which are created by him/her.

Thanks,

Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 1:40 PM, prakhar joshi prakhar...@gmail.com wrote:

 hi,
  so we should have templates already created in a folder with default
 values of the attributes in it. the templates will be of BASIC OPERATION,
 BOUNCES etc. and  under each of the template we will gonna have
 attributes for it and then we can apply these templates on the list and
 even user can edit these templates, right ?

 One thing how these templates will be stored for the user is still a doubt
 for me ? Can you please help me with that ?

 Thanks,

 Prakhar Joshi
 DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

 On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org
 wrote:

 prakhar joshi writes:

I am thinking of storing the styles in the database by creating a
   table for the styles in the db

 Mailman's databases are not relational dbs, they're object-oriented.
 Underneath the objects are stored in relational dbs and managed by an
 ORM (SQLAlchemy), of course, but the Mailman API is object-based.

 If you want to think of your schema in terms of tables, I don't think
 you'll have any trouble in design, but when you get to the
 implementation stage you'll have to shift gears to OODB style.

   and this table will contain all the attributes of a style and these
   entries can be null too. So a table which will contain a style name
   with all its attributes. Now as we have table for mailing list
   containing all the attributes in the mailing list table. So now the
   style table will contain all these attributes and in the mailing
   list table we will just store the mailing list name and the style
   name and this way we  can connect the two table by providing foreign
   key of style_id to the mailing list table?

 I think this is probably not the best way to go.  Some of the
 attributes change over time, some attributes flip back and forth, and
 so on.  Some lists may have a unique combination not very useful for
 other lists/list owners.  So I think a library of templates so that
 you can set many attributes at once by applying a template is a better
 way to go.  Also, I suspect it would be useful to allow very incomplete
 templates so that you could apply template A to get the basic
 character, then apply template B (which is very incomplete and only
 changes two attributes) to get the effect you want.

 I haven't thought about it carefully, so don't just assume everything
 I wrote is right.  Maybe it will be useful for refining your proposal.




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[Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15: Improving styles for lists

2015-03-18 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 I am thinking of storing the styles in the database by creating a
table for the styles in the db and this table will contain all the
attributes of a style and these entries can be null too. So a table which
will contain a style name with all its attributes. Now as we have table for
mailing list containing all the attributes in the mailing list table. So
now the style table will contain all these attributes and in the mailing
list table we will just store the mailing list name and the style name and
this way we can connect the two table by providing foreign key of style_id
to the mailing list table?
I really need to discuss that thing with you people as I am new to this
organization so I have very little experience with mailman core.

Thanks,
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Queries] Related to List Styles in mailman

2015-03-16 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 The advantage of first is that we will gonna have all the styles at a
single place and no need to call for the default page from other places as
we will gonna do in the second method. Here but we have to apply the
constraints on the default entries and not on other entries.
  On other hand in second point we will have a unify table with
same functionality for all the entries but we have to call the default
styles which will be at different place.

Thanks,

Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org
wrote:

 prakhar joshi writes:
   hi,
I am Prakhar Joshi (irc name :- _pjoshi). I have few things to
 discuss
   about the storage of new styles for the list that will be created
 through
   rest API. I think we should create a separate table for the list styles
 and
   there we can add the entries for the newly created styles in those
 tables.
   Now we have to work around for storing these default styles in the
   database. Here what I think is we can do it in 2 ways :-
   1) We have two default entries in the table and can only have GET
   request for these two and GET/POST request for rest of the entries
 in
   the table.
   2) We can have these 2 default styles out of the table and these 2
 can
   be called as they are now from their places in the web interface
 directly.

 What are the advantages and disadvanatages of the two approaches as
 far as you are concerned?

 Steve

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[Mailman-Developers] [Queries] Related to List Styles in mailman

2015-03-15 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 I am Prakhar Joshi (irc name :- _pjoshi). I have few things to discuss
about the storage of new styles for the list that will be created through
rest API. I think we should create a separate table for the list styles and
there we can add the entries for the newly created styles in those tables.
Now we have to work around for storing these default styles in the
database. Here what I think is we can do it in 2 ways :-
1) We have two default entries in the table and can only have GET
request for these two and GET/POST request for rest of the entries in
the table.
2) We can have these 2 default styles out of the table and these 2 can
be called as they are now from their places in the web interface directly.

I will really need to discuss these things. Any new suggestions are also
welcome.

Thanks,
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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[Mailman-Developers] [Queries] Related to list styles.

2015-03-13 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 I have some queries related to project for GSOC'15 named Improving
list styles , as I have seen right now styles have been dependent on zope
interface. So do we have to remove the zope dependencies ? or We have to
work around to make a UI that can register the styles (that may not be a
good way) , I really need what are the intentions behind that project as
that will gonna help me in proceeding further for that project. Hoping for
reply.

Thanks,
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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[Mailman-Developers] Queries related to list styles

2015-03-12 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 I am queries related to project for GSOC'15 named Improving list
styles , as I have seen right now styles have been dependent on zope
interface. So do we have to remove the zope dependencies ? or We have to
work around to make a UI that can register the styles (that may not be a
good way) , I really need what are the intentions behind that project as
that will gonna help me in proceeding further for that project. Hoping for
reply.

Thanks,
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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[Mailman-Developers] Queries related to Implementation of User registration using inbuilt User Model

2015-03-11 Thread prakhar joshi
Hi,
   I am Prakhar (IRC Name :- _pjoshi) . I am working on the bug
https://bugs.launchpad.net/postorius/+bug/1058457 and written a description
of what we have discussed on IRC. I want to get the feedback for that thing
so that I should start proceeding with the same. Hoping for reply

Thanks,
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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[Mailman-Developers] Users cannot edit their own settings Edit

2015-03-11 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
I am Prakhar (IRC name :- _pjoshi). I have been looking for this bug
https://bugs.launchpad.net/postorius/+bug/1066184 and think that for
edition thing we need a separate page which will load the User setting form
only when user is logged in and then user can change their settings there.
And the view for the current user account profile is also required so that
other people can see his/her information too.

So in a nutshell what we need is :-
1) We need to keep the present user profile page so that others can see
his/her profile.
2) We need to keep an option for user to change its settings by providing a
form and the form.

I think I will solve that bug bt just need your opinion on that. Hoping for
reply.

Thanks,
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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[Mailman-Developers] Correcting the user_task.html template

2015-03-07 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 I have been working on the bug
https://bugs.launchpad.net/postorius/+bug/1409050 for that I need to ask
where are the user_tasks stored so that I can call then while rendering the
templates.

Thank You!!

IRC Name :- _pjoshi
Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15 Idea of Better handling of list styles

2015-03-05 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 I will like to add that we have to create setting or some features/
functionalists for Site Admins of different types like Discussion list,
organization list etc.

Cheers!!

Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:03 PM, prakhar joshi prakhar...@gmail.com wrote:

 hi,
  I am Prakhar from DA-IICT graduating in 3rd B.tech. I will like to
 work on the project name Better handling of list styles. I need the
 guidance to start and will also like to discuss the whole idea (so that it
 may help in preparing proposal). I like to develop  things in python. I
 have worked in Django too. I will really like o contribute to mailman this
 summer. Hoping for reply.

 Cheers!!

 IRC name:- pjoshi


 Prakhar Joshi
 DA-IICT,Gandhinagar

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[Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15 Idea of Better handling of list styles

2015-03-05 Thread prakhar joshi
hi,
 I am Prakhar from DA-IICT graduating in 3rd B.tech. I will like to
work on the project name Better handling of list styles. I need the
guidance to start and will also like to discuss the whole idea (so that it
may help in preparing proposal). I like to develop  things in python. I
have worked in Django too. I will really like o contribute to mailman this
summer. Hoping for reply.

Cheers!!

IRC name:- pjoshi


Prakhar Joshi
DA-IICT,Gandhinagar
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