Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Translation of Mailman 3
On 01/10/2017 03:56 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Reviving an ancient thread. > > On May 28, 2016, at 10:27 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: > >> I used Zanata, but found it not very intuitive to use. It's also >> painfully slow. >> >> I'm unaware of any big projects that use zanata. Well openstack does, but >> they use a self hosted version and that one is not faster. I'm not sure how >> Mailman 2 was translated, but I guess most of the translators did it >> offline. You can download translation files from pootle and later upload >> them. So anyone that doesn't want to translate in the browser, can still do >> it offline. > Since gettext will be the interchange format, it will probably not be that > difficult to switch to a different service if we ever find we need to. > > I appreciate your feedback on Zanata, and honestly we just need an i18n > champion to make it happen. My apologies for such a long delay in responding > here, but Simon, if you're still willing to take the lead on i18n, I will be > happy to defer to your preferences. > >> So If you give me the ok, I write the gnu pootle maintainers and ask >> them to create three projects for us. > +1 - if you're still willing, let's do this. Core is very nearly ready to > start rc'ing for 3.1 so I think this is a great time to being building the > infrastructure for i18n. > >> I guess we could add links in postorius and hyperkitty that request >> assistance with translation. > +1 So it looks like the gnu pootle server is not up anymore. So I guess Zanata is the way to go. The projects are already in place, we would just have to update the pot files I initially uploaded. I updated Hyperkitty and Postorius since I'm familiar with django translation. You can start translating them right aways over at: https://translate.zanata.org/iteration/view/postorius/1.0.3 https://translate.zanata.org/iteration/view/hyperkitty/1.0.3 Mailman on the other hand currently doesn't have any infrastructure, and I don't think I know enough to be sure that I get all the strings in the correct format. Can someone help with that? I'll start working on a wiki page and create merge requests for Hyperkitty and Postorius that include a link to the wiki asking for help. I'll check the other projects and find out if we need to create translation projects for them too. All registered users should be able to translate. I'll enable reviews which allow certain users more rights. If you want to be responsible for a language you should be able to request that from the interface or you can contact me mentioning your username. cheers, Simon ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Translation of Mailman 3
Reviving an ancient thread. On May 28, 2016, at 10:27 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: >I used Zanata, but found it not very intuitive to use. It's also >painfully slow. > >I'm unaware of any big projects that use zanata. Well openstack does, but >they use a self hosted version and that one is not faster. I'm not sure how >Mailman 2 was translated, but I guess most of the translators did it >offline. You can download translation files from pootle and later upload >them. So anyone that doesn't want to translate in the browser, can still do >it offline. Since gettext will be the interchange format, it will probably not be that difficult to switch to a different service if we ever find we need to. I appreciate your feedback on Zanata, and honestly we just need an i18n champion to make it happen. My apologies for such a long delay in responding here, but Simon, if you're still willing to take the lead on i18n, I will be happy to defer to your preferences. >So If you give me the ok, I write the gnu pootle maintainers and ask >them to create three projects for us. +1 - if you're still willing, let's do this. Core is very nearly ready to start rc'ing for 3.1 so I think this is a great time to being building the infrastructure for i18n. >I guess we could add links in postorius and hyperkitty that request >assistance with translation. +1 Cheers, -Barry ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Translation of Mailman 3
Simon Hanna writes: > I used Zanata, but found it not very intuitive to use. It's also > painfully slow. Thanks for your efforts here, it's very helpful. > So If you give me the ok, I write the gnu pootle maintainers and ask > them to create three projects for us. +1 from me. Pootle is widely used so it's not the worst alternative. Steve ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Translation of Mailman 3
On 05/17/2016 04:06 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Hi Simon, > > On May 17, 2016, at 03:31 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: > >> I guess I could take some sort of lead on that. I played around a little >> with pootle and I really like it. It's easy to use, fast and anyone that >> registers can start translating. > > Just by way of comparison, have you played with Zanata yet? How would you > compare the two systems? I used Zanata, but found it not very intuitive to use. It's also painfully slow. I'm unaware of any big projects that use zanata. Well openstack does, but they use a self hosted version and that one is not faster. I'm not sure how Mailman 2 was translated, but I guess most of the translators did it offline. You can download translation files from pootle and later upload them. So anyone that doesn't want to translate in the browser, can still do it offline. > >> The main question would be selfhosting vs using gnu's hosted version. > > I'd really prefer not to self-host. I don't think we're a big enough > organization to commit to long-term maintenance. I'm not at all questioning > your eagerness, abilities, and availability, but life has a way of throwing > curve balls at us[*] and I worry about 5 years in the future if interests or > availability changes. Also, I wonder if we wouldn't be giving up some > economies of scale by sharing translation infrastructure with other projects. > >> If you want I can spin up an instance on my server and provide >> interested people credentials to play with. (existing demo instances >> don't allow adding/managing projects) > > If the i18n community wants to play with a pootle, I think that's fine. We > can certainly use it to compare against other services. > > From my perspective, I don't have too many requirements, other than that we > can upload .pot files and download .po files when it makes sense for the > project, which would be disconnected from the timeline for translators to > submit translations. Right now for MM2.1, Mark has to request updates timed > to his releases, and I really want to avoid that. IWBNI whatever system we > choose had nice git integration, but that's not required. With pootle you can always download a snapshot for a language. I don't think any of the translation software out there has a real git integration. > > My only other requirement is that whatever we choose be comfortable enough > that translators *want* to use it. As a pretty typical monolinguist, I'm > definitely not qualified to judge that. > > Cheers, > -Barry > > [*] Is that a euphemism that translates outside of North America? ;) If you watch American TV shows, you know that it's origin is baseball So If you give me the ok, I write the gnu pootle maintainers and ask them to create three projects for us. I guess we could add links in postorius and hyperkitty that request assistance with translation. ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Translation of Mailman 3
Hi Simon, On May 17, 2016, at 03:31 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: >I guess I could take some sort of lead on that. I played around a little >with pootle and I really like it. It's easy to use, fast and anyone that >registers can start translating. Just by way of comparison, have you played with Zanata yet? How would you compare the two systems? >The main question would be selfhosting vs using gnu's hosted version. I'd really prefer not to self-host. I don't think we're a big enough organization to commit to long-term maintenance. I'm not at all questioning your eagerness, abilities, and availability, but life has a way of throwing curve balls at us[*] and I worry about 5 years in the future if interests or availability changes. Also, I wonder if we wouldn't be giving up some economies of scale by sharing translation infrastructure with other projects. >If you want I can spin up an instance on my server and provide >interested people credentials to play with. (existing demo instances >don't allow adding/managing projects) If the i18n community wants to play with a pootle, I think that's fine. We can certainly use it to compare against other services. >From my perspective, I don't have too many requirements, other than that we can upload .pot files and download .po files when it makes sense for the project, which would be disconnected from the timeline for translators to submit translations. Right now for MM2.1, Mark has to request updates timed to his releases, and I really want to avoid that. IWBNI whatever system we choose had nice git integration, but that's not required. My only other requirement is that whatever we choose be comfortable enough that translators *want* to use it. As a pretty typical monolinguist, I'm definitely not qualified to judge that. Cheers, -Barry [*] Is that a euphemism that translates outside of North America? ;) ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Translation of Mailman 3
On 04/21/2016 04:47 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > -i18n removed, I'm not subscribed. > > Barry Warsaw writes: > > > We need a Mailman 3 translation champion, someone who understand > > the technical and more importantly, social issues involved, and can > > spend time and energy on helping bring a good story to fruition. > > I'm happy to give wide latitude to the champion to help shape a > > solution that works for us. Maybe that's you Simon? > > I can help somewhat, I know the technology, I have a "friend in the > business" (a lawyer buddy who's heavily invested in legal translation > software), I've been involved with the Mailman and Debian translation > communitiess in the past. But right now I'm "busy as Barry", and for > the near future GSoC is going to sop up most of my Mailman time. I guess I could take some sort of lead on that. I played around a little with pootle and I really like it. It's easy to use, fast and anyone that registers can start translating. The main question would be selfhosting vs using gnu's hosted version. GNU is using v 2.5. 2.7.3 is the current version which changed quite a bit. The newer version has some sort of revision support has the ability to add comments to translations. The biggest change is that adding new files/ updating them requires filesystem access in 2.7.3 So I think that GNU is going to stick to 2.5 for the time being. Selfhosting would have a couple of upsides * Easier access to generated po files (scriptable) * Easier upgrade of po files * More features (v2.7.3) pootle has a couple of features that I think are nice to have. * Offline translation support (they have a very nice peace of software called virtaal) * Terminology support (we provide recommended translations for common words) * Used by (big) organizations (mozilla, document foundation, ...) * Relatively fine grained permissions (users can get permissions based on languages as well as projects The trend seems to be to use self hosted pootle servers, at least mozilla and libreoffice do, there are probably more. I don't think selfhosting would be that hard. It's based on python+django and uses redis. If you want I can spin up an instance on my server and provide interested people credentials to play with. (existing demo instances don't allow adding/managing projects) ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Translation of Mailman 3
-i18n removed, I'm not subscribed. Barry Warsaw writes: > We need a Mailman 3 translation champion, someone who understand > the technical and more importantly, social issues involved, and can > spend time and energy on helping bring a good story to fruition. > I'm happy to give wide latitude to the champion to help shape a > solution that works for us. Maybe that's you Simon? I can help somewhat, I know the technology, I have a "friend in the business" (a lawyer buddy who's heavily invested in legal translation software), I've been involved with the Mailman and Debian translation communitiess in the past. But right now I'm "busy as Barry", and for the near future GSoC is going to sop up most of my Mailman time. I'll subscribe to -i18n shortly. Steve ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Translation of Mailman 3
>On 04/12/2016 03:27 PM, Simon Hanna wrote to Mailman-Developers: >> Hi, >> >> I just completed setting up the Mailman 3 projects on zanata.org >> They can be found here: >> >> https://translate.zanata.org/project/view/mailman >> https://translate.zanata.org/project/view/postorius >> https://translate.zanata.org/project/view/hyperkitty >> >> I'm hesitating to ask people to translate because zanata is really slow >> and I'm afraid of scaring people away from translating mailman in the >> future :D >> >> Anyhow, I'm writing to ask for your opinions. >> What do you think about zanata? Maybe you can try translating a couple >> of things and report how you feel about it. >> >> I stumbled across a few other open source solutions: >> https://translatewiki.net >> http://pootle.locamotion.org/ >> https://demo.weblate.org/ >> >> This mediagoblin issue discussed some alternatives when they switched >> away from transifex. https://issues.mediagoblin.org/ticket/913 >> >> There seems to be a pootle server run by gnu itself. >> https://chapters.gnu.org/pootle/ >> >> What do you think? >From a project standpoint, we have a few considerations. We're a GNU project, so we have a hard requirement that any service we choose must run on free software. >From my own perspective, I'd like to separate out what we as project leaders and developers care about from what translators care about. Meaning, we should be able to extract the pot file and templates and upload them whenever it makes sense from a project standpoint. Translators can do their job on their own schedule and don't need to be tied directly to project milestones. To the extent that we have to include any translation artifacts in the software we release, we should be able to get a snapshot when needed and just include it in our release. Then all I care about is that translators are happy enough with the system that they'll actively translate! It does us no good if the service is too painful for translators to use. As a monolinguist, I don't really have any insight into that. ;) We need a Mailman 3 translation champion, someone who understand the technical and more importantly, social issues involved, and can spend time and energy on helping bring a good story to fruition. I'm happy to give wide latitude to the champion to help shape a solution that works for us. Maybe that's you Simon? Cheers, -Barry ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
