Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
I apologize for the late chiming in here. I'd like to propose the XMLRPC extension for Mailman 2.2 that has been developed over the last two years. I have in the last couple months updated the patch to 2.1.9 and it's code impact is really quite minimal; it's really quite standalone. And for those looking for ways to interact with the Mailman database from other applications, it provides the necessary interfaces for administration and moderation functions. Thoughts? -jag Barry Warsaw wrote: Now that we've successfully navigated the switch to Bazaar, it's time to lay out plans for future Mailman releases. I've talked to several people about what to do about Mailman's future and I'd like to take this opportunity to describe my thoughts and get your feedback. First some background. Mailman 2.1 is (shockingly) four and a half years old, having been initially released on 30-Dec-2002. The last release in the series, 2.1.9 was made almost a year ago. In the meantime, Mark and Tokio have been doing a great job maintaining the 2.1 branch, with several important patches in the tree now that will eventually become 2.1.10. The problem of course is that we can't add any new features to the 2.1 family wink, so we should be thinking about a new major release. I've been making good progress on the SQAlchemy/Elixir version, which will finally get rid of pickles and put Mailman on a Real Database (tm). It's been clear to me for a while that this branch will have a unified user database. It simply makes no sense to build the database back-end without once and for all fixing this design constraint. I've always said that the unified user database will be in Mailman 3, and thus this branch is indeed called Mailman 3.0. I've been slowly building things back up from the ground floor. The basic data model is in pretty good shape and I'm taking a religious test-driven approach to making things work again. But the branch still needs a lot of work, and I have no ETA for Mailman 3.0. In the meantime, Andrew Kuchling and others have volunteered to work on modernizing the Mailman web u/i, and Terri recently started a thread discussing updates to the archiver. I think it makes sense to bless these efforts, towards the goal of releasing them in Mailman 2.2. I intend to create an official Mailman 2.2 branch in bzr where these efforts can land as they mature. My hope of course is that we'll also be able to use much of this new code for Mailman 3. I'd like to keep the changes for 2.2 focused on the web u/i and archiver, with a small number of additional features to be determined. Mailman 2.2 should see no changes to the basic architecture or 'database'; we'll continue to use pickles by default for Mailman 2.2. While I won't rule out other new features, I want to be very picky about those that are accepted for 2.2, and would not feel bad at all if we rejected or deferred until 3.0 most of those proposed. Criteria for other 2.2 features must include minimal code impact with a high degree of reliability and stability. I plan on updating the wiki pages to reflect this thinking, but I would like to get feedback from y'all about the plan. It would be awesome if we could see a release of Mailman 2.2 some time in late 2007 or early 2008. Comments, question? -Barry ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/jag%40fsf.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It's catch up on email day! On Jul 9, 2007, at 9:35 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote: WRT 3.0, for enterprise and education purposes, it's important to be able to hook into existing authentication and authorisation mechanisms. For us, that means LDAP - at least for authentication. On the other hand, we also have external people using our lists, so we need to be able to either put them into an SQL database which will work in conjunction with LDAP, or to add a separate LDAP tree for them, or something similar. So, my standard answer to this will be, Mailman will provide interfaces for these things and ensure that the application is written to only ask these questions through the interface. It will be easy to plug in different backends, so if someone were to write an LDAP or hybrid backend, Mailman would work with it. This will be much easier than the current hacks required for Mailman 2.1. The goal would be to support such plugins through Python eggs, so that such extensions are easy to install and enable. Something that I've mentioned before, is the importance of preventing collateral spam. So, I'd like to be able to have my MTA ask Mailman whether a particular email address is permitted to post to a particular list, at SMTP time. I'm using Exim, which could call an external python script, but I'd rather be able to issue an SMTP callout to a running daemon, for efficiency. The callout would be executed after each RCPT TO. Yes, you'll have this capability. Really, you could do it now with a bit of Python coding. I'm currently jonesing for a RESTful interface to Mailman 3 for controlling it, asking it questions, etc., which of course the site-administrator would have to enable. The only other viable alternatives I see are XMLRPC, or the current 'write some custom Python script' approach. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRqEgmXEjvBPtnXfVAQIp7gP/Xh2SnvuaQScrZdZx2YvCQfPA4IwpdjMN 3yEEw3BOVtvcVM2/mTXel9ZFMx0I9sEvi5U+Fk0E5Bk8/KQ/Nr9Y7SxWxx3mF1UE ssmLVeNt1k5OziufLwATQcsqAV47YNdj1vcJnhlPuq5k+LMgNDA0XLG2dqFgJ/z5 p1dSCJ96HZ4= =7TmC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:06 AM, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: These sound like sensible plans and I'm curious about what 2.2 and 3.0 will bring. However, my question is whether we can expect some 2.1.x releases in the short term (like 2.1.10 you mentioned). As you say it will take quite some while for 2.2 to be released, and we'd like to get the fixed bugs in the 2.1.x branch to our users in the meantime. Regular 2.1.x releases with assorted fixes would be welcome to not scare users away from Mailman while we're waiting for the big releases. Agreed. Mark and Tokio will decide when 2.1.10 is ready, and I suspect that we will have perhaps a few more point releases before 2.2 and 3.0 are out. I would like the upgrade from 2.1.x to 2.2 to be as easy as 2.1.x to 2.1.x+1. The upgrade to 3.0 will likely require running an 'export' command in 2.x followed by an 'import' command in 3.0. The really tricky parts will be resolving conflicts when merging users. I haven't thought this far ahead, but it may be that there's an intervening conflict resolution step, or resolution strategies in the 'import' command. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRqEhcXEjvBPtnXfVAQIKTAP/dpA6VkHY5qkdV9dx6YRQMEYHXuDfcqly vhSzJ1tJXDIoXkCYa4uMcDTbyFKM3M+ytWR3LbcckGpsApikKgIG8rJz+ik3qIZc rlm8c4fuevuP9M+uw3S4Z9xK8mxpEBaVvn3rfVywSq9dm4C5zJO0meQMPRz8IPRj T/J1z613xdI= =ToXV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jul 9, 2007, at 7:27 PM, Arne Schwabe wrote: At our University we developed a customized mini Interface called 'simple' Interface. The normal mailman Interface is still there, called 'expert admin'. A (non working) demo is here: https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/listadm/demo.html The code does not use the mailman template system nor does it have multi language abilities. It even includes code specific to our installation. (We have a membership class that maps users to user in ldap and can create dynamic list with users from ldap + static users) But maybe something like this should be included in future Mailman installation. Either a static simple interface or even a customizable simpe interface that is sufficent for 95% of the people (with well chosen defaults for your university/organisation) This is exactly the kind of thing that would be nice to have. I'd also like for 3.0 to have a 'simple' and 'expert' list admin interface. BTW, your page makes me wish either 1) I spoke German :) or 2) Google Translate could handle your URL! - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRqEiRHEjvBPtnXfVAQIfLwQAr25h5wkRKWtvOAXOVfONnFlQEcyG1rYb tTomQyD5FlSAZO6MeoPEW04QtwWjv9Q3tpxFlf4tRqaPmkdb6pd6WgLy7xkVlSn5 IlTSQdnehB2CNHOKHNMiXHrl45OxxDU9PDPPYyMhaZDNPzaEfT4ad8xay3ktn2cc 2zmW/oLziUo= =HJOq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
I plan on updating the wiki pages to reflect this thinking, but I would like to get feedback from y'all about the plan. It would be awesome if we could see a release of Mailman 2.2 some time in late 2007 or early 2008. Comments, question? All sounds very good. My two main problems with driving Mailman uptake here on campus are both to do with usability. The first is the current web interface, which was great when it was developed, but expectations have moved on. The second is the lack of a unified user database. So, it's great to see these items listed as the mail focus for 2.2 and 3.0 respectively. WRT 2.2, I'd like to be able to offer something as simple to use as the list management features of Google Groups (which I use for some voluntary groups that I work with), but with the ability to expose additional functionality on request. At our University we developed a customized mini Interface called 'simple' Interface. The normal mailman Interface is still there, called 'expert admin'. A (non working) demo is here: https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/listadm/demo.html The code does not use the mailman template system nor does it have multi language abilities. It even includes code specific to our installation. (We have a membership class that maps users to user in ldap and can create dynamic list with users from ldap + static users) But maybe something like this should be included in future Mailman installation. Either a static simple interface or even a customizable simpe interface that is sufficent for 95% of the people (with well chosen defaults for your university/organisation) WRT 3.0, for enterprise and education purposes, it's important to be able to hook into existing authentication and authorisation mechanisms. For us, that means LDAP - at least for authentication. On the other hand, we also have external people using our lists, so we need to be able to either put them into an SQL database which will work in conjunction with LDAP, or to add a separate LDAP tree for them, or something similar. This is possible with mailman 2.1 with a self written Mailman Membershipt class. At least for List Member. If someone really needs this I could look into polishing the code and making it public. Something that I've mentioned before, is the importance of preventing collateral spam. So, I'd like to be able to have my MTA ask Mailman whether a particular email address is permitted to post to a particular list, at SMTP time. I'm using Exim, which could call an external python script, but I'd rather be able to issue an SMTP callout to a running daemon, for efficiency. The callout would be executed after each RCPT TO. Same for Email that get rejected for spam reasons would be neat Arne ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
--On 7 July 2007 12:35:30 -0400 Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Now that we've successfully navigated the switch to Bazaar, it's time to lay out plans for future Mailman releases. I plan on updating the wiki pages to reflect this thinking, but I would like to get feedback from y'all about the plan. It would be awesome if we could see a release of Mailman 2.2 some time in late 2007 or early 2008. Comments, question? All sounds very good. My two main problems with driving Mailman uptake here on campus are both to do with usability. The first is the current web interface, which was great when it was developed, but expectations have moved on. The second is the lack of a unified user database. So, it's great to see these items listed as the mail focus for 2.2 and 3.0 respectively. WRT 2.2, I'd like to be able to offer something as simple to use as the list management features of Google Groups (which I use for some voluntary groups that I work with), but with the ability to expose additional functionality on request. WRT 3.0, for enterprise and education purposes, it's important to be able to hook into existing authentication and authorisation mechanisms. For us, that means LDAP - at least for authentication. On the other hand, we also have external people using our lists, so we need to be able to either put them into an SQL database which will work in conjunction with LDAP, or to add a separate LDAP tree for them, or something similar. Something that I've mentioned before, is the importance of preventing collateral spam. So, I'd like to be able to have my MTA ask Mailman whether a particular email address is permitted to post to a particular list, at SMTP time. I'm using Exim, which could call an external python script, but I'd rather be able to issue an SMTP callout to a running daemon, for efficiency. The callout would be executed after each RCPT TO. -- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex x3148 ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
On Saturday 7 July 2007 18:35, Barry Warsaw wrote: Mailman 2.1 is (shockingly) four and a half years old, having been initially released on 30-Dec-2002. The last release in the series, 2.1.9 was made almost a year ago. In the meantime, Mark and Tokio have been doing a great job maintaining the 2.1 branch, with several important patches in the tree now that will eventually become 2.1.10. The problem of course is that we can't add any new features to the 2.1 family wink, so we should be thinking about a new major release. These sound like sensible plans and I'm curious about what 2.2 and 3.0 will bring. However, my question is whether we can expect some 2.1.x releases in the short term (like 2.1.10 you mentioned). As you say it will take quite some while for 2.2 to be released, and we'd like to get the fixed bugs in the 2.1.x branch to our users in the meantime. Regular 2.1.x releases with assorted fixes would be welcome to not scare users away from Mailman while we're waiting for the big releases. thanks, Thijs pgp8iBnjiKe3b.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Now that we've successfully navigated the switch to Bazaar, it's time to lay out plans for future Mailman releases. I've talked to several people about what to do about Mailman's future and I'd like to take this opportunity to describe my thoughts and get your feedback. First some background. Mailman 2.1 is (shockingly) four and a half years old, having been initially released on 30-Dec-2002. The last release in the series, 2.1.9 was made almost a year ago. In the meantime, Mark and Tokio have been doing a great job maintaining the 2.1 branch, with several important patches in the tree now that will eventually become 2.1.10. The problem of course is that we can't add any new features to the 2.1 family wink, so we should be thinking about a new major release. I've been making good progress on the SQAlchemy/Elixir version, which will finally get rid of pickles and put Mailman on a Real Database (tm). It's been clear to me for a while that this branch will have a unified user database. It simply makes no sense to build the database back-end without once and for all fixing this design constraint. I've always said that the unified user database will be in Mailman 3, and thus this branch is indeed called Mailman 3.0. I've been slowly building things back up from the ground floor. The basic data model is in pretty good shape and I'm taking a religious test-driven approach to making things work again. But the branch still needs a lot of work, and I have no ETA for Mailman 3.0. In the meantime, Andrew Kuchling and others have volunteered to work on modernizing the Mailman web u/i, and Terri recently started a thread discussing updates to the archiver. I think it makes sense to bless these efforts, towards the goal of releasing them in Mailman 2.2. I intend to create an official Mailman 2.2 branch in bzr where these efforts can land as they mature. My hope of course is that we'll also be able to use much of this new code for Mailman 3. I'd like to keep the changes for 2.2 focused on the web u/i and archiver, with a small number of additional features to be determined. Mailman 2.2 should see no changes to the basic architecture or 'database'; we'll continue to use pickles by default for Mailman 2.2. While I won't rule out other new features, I want to be very picky about those that are accepted for 2.2, and would not feel bad at all if we rejected or deferred until 3.0 most of those proposed. Criteria for other 2.2 features must include minimal code impact with a high degree of reliability and stability. I plan on updating the wiki pages to reflect this thinking, but I would like to get feedback from y'all about the plan. It would be awesome if we could see a release of Mailman 2.2 some time in late 2007 or early 2008. Comments, question? - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRo/A0nEjvBPtnXfVAQJ+dwP7BXXLM749qO6CXWQKZw41pFN42jYfN6Kg LjNAQ9IejAT/TISGrSgk8UyZ9kP6ajnOFvKIfJNTFJdytJg8/lvDQSeW1N0u7sR+ Wp0N1e0qA4qfqLYsqRR9W1MQhecdBO/yEJo8KDsOQdGnpfINSKZ40FUvPEbC40U7 C/T83gS+Vxs= =JJZS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry, I forgot to cross-post this to mailman-users, so I'm reposting. - -Barry Now that we've successfully navigated the switch to Bazaar, it's time to lay out plans for future Mailman releases. I've talked to several people about what to do about Mailman's future and I'd like to take this opportunity to describe my thoughts and get your feedback. First some background. Mailman 2.1 is (shockingly) four and a half years old, having been initially released on 30-Dec-2002. The last release in the series, 2.1.9 was made almost a year ago. In the meantime, Mark and Tokio have been doing a great job maintaining the 2.1 branch, with several important patches in the tree now that will eventually become 2.1.10. The problem of course is that we can't add any new features to the 2.1 family wink, so we should be thinking about a new major release. I've been making good progress on the SQAlchemy/Elixir version, which will finally get rid of pickles and put Mailman on a Real Database (tm). It's been clear to me for a while that this branch will have a unified user database. It simply makes no sense to build the database back-end without once and for all fixing this design constraint. I've always said that the unified user database will be in Mailman 3, and thus this branch is indeed called Mailman 3.0. I've been slowly building things back up from the ground floor. The basic data model is in pretty good shape and I'm taking a religious test-driven approach to making things work again. But the branch still needs a lot of work, and I have no ETA for Mailman 3.0. In the meantime, Andrew Kuchling and others have volunteered to work on modernizing the Mailman web u/i, and Terri recently started a thread discussing updates to the archiver. I think it makes sense to bless these efforts, towards the goal of releasing them in Mailman 2.2. I intend to create an official Mailman 2.2 branch in bzr where these efforts can land as they mature. My hope of course is that we'll also be able to use much of this new code for Mailman 3. I'd like to keep the changes for 2.2 focused on the web u/i and archiver, with a small number of additional features to be determined. Mailman 2.2 should see no changes to the basic architecture or 'database'; we'll continue to use pickles by default for Mailman 2.2. While I won't rule out other new features, I want to be very picky about those that are accepted for 2.2, and would not feel bad at all if we rejected or deferred until 3.0 most of those proposed. Criteria for other 2.2 features must include minimal code impact with a high degree of reliability and stability. I plan on updating the wiki pages to reflect this thinking, but I would like to get feedback from y'all about the plan. It would be awesome if we could see a release of Mailman 2.2 some time in late 2007 or early 2008. Comments, question? - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRo/BJnEjvBPtnXfVAQL7iwP/TfPPvMsTnrrSxQAlvPjQoR27ySqUYh+P yZCvGxxp9DgNoFQOWl0mo1QzZ9ozXtiFfIHx4CJLybOis+yuiq+BWtih2MJnGBf7 SzD8qsBOu6N4sE8sn4n0tdmXr1fnh4qnrgTobvBX+3toJtHNGQTEVEZCxiWb5fKq JsUKDVVvOhQ= =CVNK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman roadmap
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jul 7, 2007, at 12:35 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: I intend to create an official Mailman 2.2 branch in bzr where these efforts can land as they mature. This branch is now live. http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/MailmanBranches Cheers, - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRo/1Z3EjvBPtnXfVAQIwNAP+MgJj026MHEGwdXMoma9uNkTp8UzeLtCC mKh7OkcmZPMzKrNdlztQ5OmU1N1SWf9medErjM7QcKeIR0y+9aUjC65j8mamwWPa +XrbzdlWZoDxnO5qFh02rVNFATKRH00+ITiB6LvTEKJVxp9r+WL1sKq0FEElu9/W zkl80deXVvQ= =V7ce -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
