Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI
For HCS' own instance of Mailman, I went ahead and changed up the UI, integrating CSS and generally making pages look much more visually appealing, and themed. If anyone is interested in seeing the changes I was able to make, check out http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~vsant/mm/mailman.html. Awesome ! -- Fil ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI
Hi everyone, My name is Vivek Sant, I am a rising sophomore at Harvard College. I am a member of the Harvard Computer Society, and among other things, we use Mailman to host approximately 3000 mailing lists for student groups. I wanted to start by saying thanks for a great product - we've been using Mailman successfully for several years. Recently, we decided to modify the user interface to make it easier to use, and to make it look nicer. As I've seen from the -users and -developers lists, it seems that there has been discussion lately about modifying the UI, and I'd be glad to help out in any manner possible. For HCS' own instance of Mailman, I went ahead and changed up the UI, integrating CSS and generally making pages look much more visually appealing, and themed. If anyone is interested in seeing the changes I was able to make, check out http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~vsant/mm/ mailman.html. This page has comparison screenshots of a few representative pages where I did most of the work. I'd recommend looking at this page in Firefox/Camino, because Safari renders it badly and I've not checked with IE. If the screenshots look weird, open any image directly in the browser - they are full-size. Also, I created a branch with bzr and its located at http:// www.hcs.harvard.edu/~vsant/mm/mailman_stable_newGUI, in case anyone feels like looking at my code changes. I had to modify files all over the place in making these changes; files in templates/en, Mailman/, Mailman/Cgi, Mailman/Archive, Mailman/Gui, and interestingly, cgi-bin. I had to place a few files in cgi-bin, but in the bzr branch (I pulled this off of lp:mailman/ stable) it seems that cgi-bin scripts were created by the makefile, so I just created a cgi-bin folder in my branch saying that files in there (css, imgs etc) must be copied to the install dir's cgi-bin folder. There is a lot of code that creates links with a function like Link(label, href), and while it seems like great abstraction, it was a bit difficult for me to add something like say, class=cool_link. So I ended up ripping out some of those function calls and just building each link piece by piece. So overall, I just wanted to introduce myself, describe what work I have done so far, and also say that I'd love to help out with UI redesign efforts this summer! Comments/suggestions about my design are, of course, welcome, as well as questions if I have been unclear. Best regards, Vivek ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI
--On 19 June 2008 13:21:31 -0400 Terri Oda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we could benefit a fair bit from having a simple and an expert interface for the list administrators. I had a number of replies both on and off list saying yes! please! so I take it I'm not the only one who thinks this is a good idea. My question to everyone is... what options would you deem essential in the simple interface? List admin: Jason said: #1. Manage subscriber list I think this needs bulk un/subscribe. Strong warnings about legal requirements should be present. Perhaps with localised links to guidance. Should also put individual moderation here. Perhaps some other options. #2. Manage digest/non digest options I'm not sure this is absolutely required in a simple interface. #3. Emergency moderation Yes! #4. Archives (Public/private settings), navigate to archives, (maybe censor an archived message). Cristóbal added: #5 3 PRESETS: announce-only list vs. moderated discussion vs. open discussion #6 List Description web landing page description footer content I would add: #7 search for a list member. #8 Display/export entire membership list. #9 Add/remove a moderator #10 contact a system administrator to Request list removal, Request a new list, or Get help Site admin: -- site management (define lists, and list ownership, apply emergency moderation): #1 Display lists, with ownership and emergency moderation status. Perhaps sort/filter by owner or domain, style or moderation status, traffic. #2 Add a list with a preset style/change style. #3 Disable or Delete a list, and/or list archive. #4 Change a list owner or moderator. list management: #5 disable list features (eg, to prevent the owner from changing footer content). #6 manage a list - with full feature set #7 become list owner - (so you can see the effect of disabling features) -- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex x3148 ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 01:21:31PM -0400, Terri Oda wrote: My question to everyone is... what options would you deem essential in the simple interface? * Membership management o add/remove members o adjust per-member digest settings o adjust per-member moderation * Moderation o 3 PRESETS: announce-only list vs. moderated discussion vs. open discussion * List Description o web landing page description o footer content * Passwords o brain-dead obvious password reset procedure (we get a lot of tickets requesting a password reset) Thanks for this... Cheers, -- Cristóbal Palmer ibiblio.org systems administrator ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI
Personally from my stand point, the only options that I can think of for a simple interface would be: MAIN SITE ADMIN: #1. Create a new mailing list #2. Add Users to list #3. Manage digest/non digest options #4. Emergency moderation #5. Archives (Setting for public/private) LIST ADMIN: #1. Manage subscriber list #2. Manage digest/non digest options #3. Emergency moderation #4. Archives (Public/private settings) I think that's it... And then provide links to the advanced interface, Maybe have a glossary where you can go into and pull up all the settings and then click on it and link directly to it? In fact... Depending on how the documentation is done, it might be possible to use that to grab the settings... On Jun 19, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Terri Oda wrote: A few days ago, a discussion of Mailman's web UI started on mailman- users: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg49681.html Since this is more of a development effort than a users issue, we're moving continued discussion here. I'll kick off the thread by answering a question: But how easy is it to actually improve the web UI? Not very. Not only is it tightly integrated, but any text change will have to go through all the many translators for various languages. And then there's accessibility concerns, issues regarding any extra install requirements we might want to add (eg for templating systems), and the basic problem of building an interface that appeals to a rather large array of people... Changing the web UI is a big pain. That said, I think this is a worthwhile endeavour, and we had previous discussed an improved web UI being a good goal for a 2.2 release (we'll also need new UI for mm3, of course). Just don't expect it to happen tomorrow or be a cakewalk. This is not a project to take on lightly. I've started up a wiki page here for us to capture ideas for an improved web UI: http://wiki.list.org/x/RoBE and being the self-interested person that I am, I'm going to try to generate some thoughts on my own idea here first ;) I think we could benefit a fair bit from having a simple and an expert interface for the list administrators. I had a number of replies both on and off list saying yes! please! so I take it I'm not the only one who thinks this is a good idea. My question to everyone is... what options would you deem essential in the simple interface? Terri ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/japruim%40raoset.com Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 11287 James St Holland, MI 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI redux
--On 4 March 2008 17:57:42 -0500 Ethan Fremen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hiya! After an embarrassingly long absence, I am going to try again to make some progress on the web ui front. Barry said in an earlier message that there's no web UI for mm3: my first impulse is to start on something there. I was humbled enough by my first experience trying to make progress on this that I will happily start with anything that y'all think is low hanging fruit just so I can get something committed that can actually be used. a) There was mention that an archive browser is required. b) An easy way for list members to unsubscribe is a legal requirement here in the UK, so that should should also be a priority. The current mechanism is *way* too complicated (even though it probably looks fairly simple to most of us). It needs (a) a simple form where I can enter my email address, and click unsubscribe so that I'm then emailed a verification link, and (b) a confirmation page as the target of that link, which (a) tells me that I'm unsubscribed, (b) allows me to optionally suspend mailings instead, (c) gives me some way to see what other lists I'm subscribed to, perhaps with the option to apply settings to all of them. It should also be very simple to apply site specific page headers, footers and styles. c) List subscription, with captchas, would be useful. Simple option management would also be good: daily digests, d) Simple list management: perhaps with styles announcement only, closed discussion, open discussion. Subscribe (by invitation, with notification, no notification), and unsubscribe). Thanks, ~ethan fremen ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/iane%40sussex.a c.uk Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp -- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex x3148 ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI redux
yOn Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 05:57:42PM -0500, Ethan Fremen wrote: Barry said in an earlier message that there's no web UI for mm3: my first impulse is to start on something there. I'm interested in working on a REST-style interface for controlling Mailman. One thought: should the web UI be written atop such a REST interface? Pro: it would nicely enforce decoupling the UI and the Mailman engine, and be a good test that the REST interface supports enough functionality. Con: adds an extra layer. (A sketch of the REST interface is in the wiki at http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/REST+Interface . It's written from the 2.1/2.2 point of view; I don't know if mm3 reworks the basic objects so much that the REST interface no longer applies.) --amk ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Developers] Web UI redux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 5, 2008, at 8:36 AM, A.M. Kuchling wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 05:57:42PM -0500, Ethan Fremen wrote: Barry said in an earlier message that there's no web UI for mm3: my first impulse is to start on something there. I'm interested in working on a REST-style interface for controlling Mailman. One thought: should the web UI be written atop such a REST interface? Pro: it would nicely enforce decoupling the UI and the Mailman engine, and be a good test that the REST interface supports enough functionality. Con: adds an extra layer. I'm really keen on exploring this because I do think the decoupling will be a big win. It'll let us distribute a turnkey, standalone u/i for those who want something working out of the box, but it'll also let integrators use the core Mailman engine in their own sites. And it won't limit you to just Python web frameworks. (A sketch of the REST interface is in the wiki at http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/REST+Interface . It's written from the 2.1/2.2 point of view; I don't know if mm3 reworks the basic objects so much that the REST interface no longer applies.) I think if we're careful we can get pretty close. Ideally, we'd have the same REST api for both, which would give us a nice migration path, but I don't yet know if that's feasible. MM3 does have a more elaborate data model than MM2, but OTOH, everything is formally declared in Zope-style interfaces (and thoroughly tested... woohoo!). One thing that we have to figure out is how to represent all the metadata that currently lives in the Mailman.Gui package of 2.1/2.2. I think any web interface acting through the REST api will want that basic information, e.g. the brief and detailed descriptions of the mailing attributes (the VARHELP). I'm sure there's a clear way to publish that through the REST api, but it might have an impact on the format used. I like JSON a lot, but html or xml might be more amenable to that type of data. OTOH, it's all read-only so it might make sense to split it into two trees of information. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfPIY8ACgkQ2YZpQepbvXG3fACdEve/fgFm5D+6b5YNN7kbyezr gOAAoKdZoACLH1Blcz9deQDqso2kTHcl =0Dn9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq01.027.htp
