[Mailman-Users] Posting from the archives - lists sender, but not list

[Paul H Byerly]

Anita Lewis wrote:
We have the new version of mailman on a webhost which uses cpanel.  I note
that now there is the feature of responding to emails from the archives.  This
will be very handy for some of our subscribers.
 As this is not a feature of Mailman I assume cpanel is 
responsible?  Kind of ironic, I've spent months working on a way to do just 
this, and now I am thinking seriously about moving to a cpanel server.

<>< Paul 

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[Mailman-Users] Re: OSIRUSOFT

[Aviram Carmi]

I noticed it too... I disabled osirusoft.com yesterday.

-avi

At 19:02 -0400 08/27/2003, Don Levey wrote:
-Original Message-

--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:25:42 -0500
From: Paul H Byerly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Osirusoft blocking all IPs
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
  I realize this is not a Mailman issue, but it may be causing some
Mailman systems to reject all mail.  If you are using relays.osirusoft.com
it's rejecting all e-mail.
<>< Paul, who has his mail flowing again

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[Mailman-Users] Re: OSIRUSOFT

[Don Levey]

-Original Message-

--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:25:42 -0500
From: Paul H Byerly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Osirusoft blocking all IPs
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

  I realize this is not a Mailman issue, but it may be causing some
Mailman systems to reject all mail.  If you are using relays.osirusoft.com
it's rejecting all e-mail.

<>< Paul, who has his mail flowing again


*

Osirusoft has been under a VERY heavy DDoS attack for a while now.
In order to reduce traffic, Joe set things up so that legitimate users of
his service would cease - all that leaves left is the terrorist attack,
which can now be analysed.

The underlying lists from which he drew his information are still there:
SPEWS, for one, is still in operation.  I personally salute Joe for his
valiant effort over the past few years; making these lists available has
meant that I've blocked many thousands of spam messages, with only one
false-positive in the bunch.  There are some who ignorantly blame Joe for
problems in their own server, their ISP, or the listing criteria on the
lists he used; they fail to see that we as mail server operators have the
final say on who uses our resources.  Lists such as the Osirusoft relay list
have had a significant impact on spam; otherwise, they'd never have been hit
as hard as they are, because the spammers wouldn't be afraid.

Keep in mind also that it's these criteria that have given Mailman some of
the features that allow it to be a good netizen - in particular, the
confirmation option.  No-one should ever be added to a mailing list without
their knowledge and consent.  It's the lists that DON'T do this that get
their IPs blacklisted.

The spammers and electronic terrorists perpetrating this attack have failed
to foresee two things: the rise of multiple alternate lists, and the
reactivation of individual blocklists.  It's much easier to get off of one
centrally-maintained list than it is to get off of thousands of
individually-maintained lists, especially when the admins are overworked and
vindictive...

 -Don


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mail server recommendations?

[Raymond Wood]

On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:13:10AM +0200, Brad Knowles imagined:
> At 2:21 PM -0700 2003/08/27, Aviram Carmi wrote:
> > If I am to make changes to sendmail might as well install another
> > server which will be better/easier for me as a non-admin person to
> > use/configure/maintain.
> 
>   [ ... deletia ... ]
> 
> > Any recommendations/suggestions?
> >
> > Should I even bother to replace sendmail?
> 
> Sendmail is quite capable of doing the job.  However, many people 
> find it difficult to configure and manage.

I tend to agree.  Feature-wise, Sendmail is still the most
powerful MTA AFAICT, but most people can make their lives easier
by choosing a less complex one, like Postfix or Exim.

Cross Smail off your list; it is way old, and possibly obsolete.
Qmail has fanatical devotees, but is not a 'drop-in' replacement
for Sendmail, and also has a 'non-free' license.  I'd cross them
both off your list.  YMMV.

> For smaller sites, or sites wishing to have a simpler
> configuration file, I find that postfix generally works very
> well.  It has one of the simplest configuration files that I
> have ever seen, and comes configured out-of-the-box to be just
> about the perfect MTA for a mailing list.

Postfix is also designed, like Qmail, from the ground up with
security in mind.  I'm told the source-code is a joy to look at,
but don't quote me on that as I'm no authority  :-)

> I've also heard good things about Exim, but my own
> experiences so far have been less positive with it than with
> postfix.  Note that Exim is not designed to be a drop-in
> replacement for sendmail, whereas postfix works very hard to
> function correctly in this role.

I think you want to double-check this; you may be thinking of
Qmail here.  AFAIK Exim, like Postfix, is structured to be a
drop-in replacement for Sendmail, but verify this for yourself.

>   If you'd like to learn more about postfix, you may want to
>   check out the article at 
> ,
>  
> and read the pages that they link to.
> 
> 
>   You should also read the Mailman FAQ, question 4.2 "Which MTA 
> should I use with Mailman?", at 
> .

FWIW I use both Exim and Postfix, and they both work fine.  If I
were to set up a new server right now, I'd go with Postfix.  I
just wish it had Exim's license  ;)

Have Fun, 
Raymond
-- 
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the
homeless, whether the mad destruction is brought under the name
of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
(Gandhi)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman questions

[Brad Knowles]

At 2:21 PM -0700 2003/08/27, Aviram Carmi wrote:

 works with mailscanner to filter out spam/viruses to/from the list
	This should be external to the mailing list.  The mailing list 
should probably have features to allow it to take advantage of any 
external virus/spam tagging and filtering that you can perform, but 
the bulk of the work should actually be done in the MTA, or in 
conjunction with the MTA -- before the message gets to the mailing 
list software itself.

 be secure so that the list cannot be hijacked by spammers
	"Secure" is a relative term.  If you run a closed list and do not 
allow postings from non-subscribers, then spammers will either have 
to subscribe to the list before they can spam, or they will have to 
forge the address of a subscriber.

	Problem is, "viraspam" tools like SoBig.F will generate spam 
using the mailbox of an infected person as a guide, and they may be 
able to forge mail from another member (perhaps with an infected 
attachment) and get it posted to the list.

	Just how secure does the list have to be?

	As far as everything else is concerned, it seems to me that 
mailman can do all this, and I believe it's a pretty good tool for 
doing so.

--
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mail server recommendations?

[Brad Knowles]

At 2:21 PM -0700 2003/08/27, Aviram Carmi wrote:

 If I am to make changes to sendmail might as well install another
 server which will be better/easier for me as a non-admin person to
 use/configure/maintain.
	[ ... deletia ... ]

 Any recommendations/suggestions?

 Should I even bother to replace sendmail?
	Sendmail is quite capable of doing the job.  However, many people 
find it difficult to configure and manage.

	For smaller sites, or sites wishing to have a simpler 
configuration file, I find that postfix generally works very well. 
It has one of the simplest configuration files that I have ever seen, 
and comes configured out-of-the-box to be just about the perfect MTA 
for a mailing list.

	I've also heard good things about Exim, but my own experiences so 
far have been less positive with it than with postfix.  Note that 
Exim is not designed to be a drop-in replacement for sendmail, 
whereas postfix works very hard to function correctly in this role.

	If you'd like to learn more about postfix, you may want to check 
out the article at 
, 
and read the pages that they link to.

	You should also read the Mailman FAQ, question 4.2 "Which MTA 
should I use with Mailman?", at 
.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+
!w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++)
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[Mailman-Users] mail server recommendations?

[Aviram Carmi]

Hi all,

While researching mailing list managers  I encountered several mail 
servers (MTA) programs.

If I am to make changes to sendmail might as well install another 
server which will be better/easier for me as a non-admin person to 
use/configure/maintain.

these are the servers I am aware of:

sendmail

exim

postfix

smail

qmail

Any recommendations/suggestions?

Should I even bother to replace sendmail?

Thanks,

-avi

--

Aviram Carmi
Owner
Executive Vice President, Technology
Over TheNet (R)
601 Daily Drive Suite #226
Camarillo, CA 93010-5840
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[Mailman-Users] mailman questions

[Aviram Carmi]

Hi all,

I am looking for a mailing list manager for my customers.

here are my basic requirements:

works with mailscanner to filter out spam/viruses to/from the list

allow multiple virtual domains and multiple lists per domain, since I
host several domain names
be secure so that the list cannot be hijacked by spammers

easy for me to use/admin/setup/trouble shoot

has web interface with multiple admins for each virtual domain/list,
so that my customers can maintain/manage their own lists
web based archives with multiple threads per mailing list

auto bounce deletion

these are the mlm that I found while searching the net yesterday:

mailman http://www.list.org/

mojo http://mojo.skazat.com/

ecartis (formerly listar) http://www.ecartis.org/

sympa http://www.sympa.org/

fml http://www.fml.org/

procmail/smartlist http://www.procmail.org/

listproc http://sourceforge.net/projects/listproc/

ezmlm http://ezmlm.enderunix.org/

majordomo http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/

Thanks,

-avi

--

Aviram Carmi
Owner
Executive Vice President, Technology
Over TheNet (R)
601 Daily Drive Suite #226
Camarillo, CA 93010-5840
http://www.otn.com/   Building Profitable Web Sites Today
(805) 384-1144 Voice  (805) 384-9111 FAX
(C) Copyright 2003, Over TheNet (R)  All rights reserved.

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RE: [Mailman-Users] Footer ?

[Mike Kercher]

Don't send html email to the list.  That's most likely why the footer is
being appended as an attachment.  Try it with a plain text message and see
what happens.

Mike


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
n3me
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 3:12 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer ?


  
Hello friends,
 
My "Footers" are being sent to our mailing list participants as
"Attachments" rather than being inserted into the message text.
 
Please advise what I setup incorrectly and what I must change to have the
"footer" placed at the bottom of the e-mail message text.
 
Thank you for your assistance.
 
- Tony -


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[Mailman-Users] Footer ?

[n3me]

  
Hello friends,
 
My "Footers" are being sent to our mailing list participants as
"Attachments" rather than being inserted into the message text.
 
Please advise what I setup incorrectly and what I must change to have the
"footer" placed at the bottom of the e-mail message text.
 
Thank you for your assistance.
 
- Tony -
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Osirusoft blocking all IPs

[Sean Adams]

Goddbye, and good riddance!  Osirusoft was an evil operation, and I'm  
glad to see them gone.
There was heated discussion last night on Slashdot, in case anyone is  
interested:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/27/ 
0214238&mode=thread&tid=111&tid=126



On Wednesday, August 27, 2003, at 11:25 AM, Paul H Byerly wrote:

 I realize this is not a Mailman issue, but it may be causing some  
Mailman systems to reject all mail.  If you are using  
relays.osirusoft.com it's rejecting all e-mail.

<>< Paul, who has his mail flowing again



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sadams%40slimdevices.com



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[Mailman-Users] Osirusoft blocking all IPs

[Paul H Byerly]

 I realize this is not a Mailman issue, but it may be causing some 
Mailman systems to reject all mail.  If you are using relays.osirusoft.com 
it's rejecting all e-mail.

<>< Paul, who has his mail flowing again



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[Mailman-Users] Posting from the archives - lists sender,but not list

[Anita Lewis]

We have the new version of mailman on a webhost which uses cpanel.  I note
that now there is the feature of responding to emails from the archives.  This
will be very handy for some of our subscribers.

For some reason only the sender's name is listed to reply to.  Howevery, when
I reply by clicking on that sender's name, it actually sends to the list. 
That is where I want the messages sent, but it is confusing to the users to
have it look as though the reply will go to the sender.  I cannot find out
what is causing this.  It doesn't seem to be a setting that I can adjust.

I have seen this feature working properly on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
where one may reply to sender, list, or both.

I found some helpful things in the FAQ, but not an answer to this.

Thanks,
Anita

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[Mailman-Users] Removing authorised sender

[Mike Dustan]

Hi All:

Probably a simple answer to this one, but I can't find it.

I've authorised Joe Nonmember as an authorised sender to my list. 
Although he's a non-member and doesn't receive postings, he can post 
to it without administrative intervention. Now, how do I deauthorise 
him? He doesn't show up in any screens that I've been able to find.

Thanks!
--
--
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I'm never wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong.

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[Mailman-Users] Mystery resends

[Mike Dustan]

Hi All:

I'm running Mailman 2.1.2 with a Postfix MTA on Mac OS X Sserver and 
have had several complaints about duplicate messages. Seems that some 
(but not all) people on a list are receiving occasional resends of 
old messages from a week or two ago. This happens on most of my 
lists. There seems to be no common factor among the recipients, the 
messages, the timing or the lists. Occasionally a postfix restart 
seems to provoke it but not always.

Any ideas where I should look?

Thanks!
--
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[Mailman-Users] Re: archive clean-up?

[Will Froning]

~mailman/bin/list_owners -w

OR

~mailman/bin/list_admins -a

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:02:00 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> From: Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive clean-up?
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:41:24 -0500 (CDT)
> 
> Mailman users,
>   I have seen the faq that discuss how to remove archives, etc. 
>   However, it
> seem rather manual intensive to truncate archives down to 1 year or
> any particular time period.  Does anyone have a utility or script that
> can take different Mailman lists and truncate the archives down to a
> specified time period?  
>   Also, is there a quick way to identify all of the list owners?  I
>   have
> over 100 lists and I don't know how to find the list owners without
> logging into each list administration page. -thanks!
> 
> -- 
> Tim Tyler
> Network Manager - Beloit College
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
Will Froning
Unix Sys. Admin.
(209)946-7470
(209)662-4725
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[Mailman-Users] archive clean-up?

[Tim Tyler]

Mailman users,
  I have seen the faq that discuss how to remove archives, etc.  However, it
seem rather manual intensive to truncate archives down to 1 year or any
particular time period.  Does anyone have a utility or script that can take
different Mailman lists and truncate the archives down to a specified time
period?  
  Also, is there a quick way to identify all of the list owners?  I have
over 100 lists and I don't know how to find the list owners without logging
into each list administration page. -thanks!

-- 
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Network Manager - Beloit College
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: MORE: [Mailman-Users] Problem with qrunner OutgoingRunner

[Charles Gagnon]

Another quick update: I had old queue files in qfiles/out. So I
cleared out everything in the folder and restarted all the qrunners.

Now I can get the OutgoingRunner to send one post or one message.
After it's restarted, it sends one message correctly. The next post
or confirmation message after that goes nowhere.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 08:13:13AM -0400, Charles Gagnon wrote:
> I have just tested a post to a new list created with the 2.1.2
> mailman. Pretty much the same behavior, the .pck and .db files are
> created in qfiles/out. They look normal when I peek in with dumpdb.
> But nothing leaves the machine. No apparent errors anywhere.
> 
> Can I run the "qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s" manually and
> add some kind of degugging flag?
> 
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 07:56:38AM -0400, Charles Gagnon wrote:
> > I've just upgraded my Mailman installation from a 2.0.x to a 2.1.2
> > on a Solaris 8 server using Python 2.2.2.  And I think I have a
> > problem with the OutgoingRunner but I can't put my finger on it.
> > Here a the symtoms:
> > 
> > 1. After I start mailman, the mailmanctl never exits. I can still
> >see it in the process table.
> > 2. The "mailmanctl stop" command stops everything but NOT the
> >OutgoingRunner. I have to kill that one manually.
> > 3. If I send subscription requests (email or web), I see them pending in
> >logs/subscribe. I see a new file get created in qfiles/out. But
> >nothing gets out. I never get the confirmation message.
> > 4. I see no errors in logs/smtp-failure or any other files that
> >would help me put my finger on the problem.

-- 
Charles Gagnon   | My views are my views and they
http://unixrealm.com | do not represent those of anybody
charlesg at unixrealm.com| but me.

   There's no such thing as strong coffee,
   just weak people.

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MORE: [Mailman-Users] Problem with qrunner OutgoingRunner

[Charles Gagnon]

I have just tested a post to a new list created with the 2.1.2
mailman. Pretty much the same behavior, the .pck and .db files are
created in qfiles/out. They look normal when I peek in with dumpdb.
But nothing leaves the machine. No apparent errors anywhere.

Can I run the "qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s" manually and
add some kind of degugging flag?

On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 07:56:38AM -0400, Charles Gagnon wrote:
> I've just upgraded my Mailman installation from a 2.0.x to a 2.1.2
> on a Solaris 8 server using Python 2.2.2.  And I think I have a
> problem with the OutgoingRunner but I can't put my finger on it.
> Here a the symtoms:
> 
> 1. After I start mailman, the mailmanctl never exits. I can still
>see it in the process table.
> 2. The "mailmanctl stop" command stops everything but NOT the
>OutgoingRunner. I have to kill that one manually.
> 3. If I send subscription requests (email or web), I see them pending in
>logs/subscribe. I see a new file get created in qfiles/out. But
>nothing gets out. I never get the confirmation message.
> 4. I see no errors in logs/smtp-failure or any other files that
>would help me put my finger on the problem.

-- 
Charles Gagnon   | My views are my views and they
http://unixrealm.com | do not represent those of anybody
charlesg at unixrealm.com| but me.

   I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman where the Self
   Help section was, she said if she told me it would defeat the
   purpose.
-- Dennis Miller

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[Mailman-Users] Problem with qrunner OutgoingRunner

[Charles Gagnon]

I've just upgraded my Mailman installation from a 2.0.x to a 2.1.2
on a Solaris 8 server using Python 2.2.2.  And I think I have a
problem with the OutgoingRunner but I can't put my finger on it.
Here a the symtoms:

1. After I start mailman, the mailmanctl never exits. I can still
   see it in the process table.
2. The "mailmanctl stop" command stops everything but NOT the
   OutgoingRunner. I have to kill that one manually.
3. If I send subscription requests (email or web), I see them pending in
   logs/subscribe. I see a new file get created in qfiles/out. But
   nothing gets out. I never get the confirmation message.
4. I see no errors in logs/smtp-failure or any other files that
   would help me put my finger on the problem.

Any ideas?

-- 
Charles Gagnon   | My views are my views and they
http://unixrealm.com | do not represent those of anybody
charlesg at unixrealm.com| but me.

   One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
-- Dennis Miller

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users worried about spammers getting their emailaddress

[Chuq Von Rospach]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2003, at 04:51  PM, Heath Raftery wrote:

I have a user who is on a campaign to remove his email address from 
any web site.
good for him. he's figured it out...

However, I did point out that the archives are still downloadable in 
raw mbox format, complete with email addresses.
If you can get to an e-mail address in any format without a password, 
so can a spambot, and they will. and do.

I suspect that before long they  will parse not just @ but also
resolve 'at' with any combination of  spaces either side.
slashdot has already proven that any attempt to obfuscate e-mail 
addresses programmatically can/will be de-obfuscated by the spammers 
once its worth their time. Remember, they don't have to de-program all 
of your obfuscations. they're patient. They can wait until they get 
your e-mail address re-arranged in a way they do understand how to 
unravel.

A good example of this that comes to my mind, is the way eBay handles 
communication between bidder and seller. Any ideas about the 
possibility of something like this in Mailman?

I think we're headed in that direction, for better and worse. I also 
think we're headed towards other changes in e-mail to allow users to 
control how their address is used. the best (IMHO) way to handle this 
is some form of addressing that allows a user's address to be usable 
for, say, a week. After that, if you attempt to use the address, you 
drop into challenge/response/whitelisting. Having a list server take 
responsibility for forwarding email is also likely useful, but it 
creates problems for sites where they don't control the entire domain 
-- you're effectively requiring the list server to live on a sub-domain 
and own all email to that sub-domain to do that properly.

I am (slowly, slowly) working on a new archiving scheme that won't 
disclose sensitive user data. Until that happens, my archives are 
locked behind security realms. That doesn't protect them completely, 
but the spambots don't seem to need to break that lock yet, not when so 
many other lists are available in google...



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