Re: [Mailman-Users] Spoofed Addresses

2004-10-29 Thread Mark Sapiro
David Relson wrote:
>
>My mail handling environment is composed of postfix, procmail,
>bogofilter, and mailman.  All incoming messages are _supposed_ to be
>processed by bogofilter, which adds a spam/ham tag to the message
>header.  Messages to "mydomain.com" have the tags, but messages to
>"mylists.org" do not (as confirmed by looking at *.pck in held-msgs).
>Can you point me towards a FAQ, HOWTO, or other document which might
>shed light on why this is so?

What is the processing order? Is it the order listed above? Is a
postfix alias or a procmail recipe piping mail directly to mailman and
bypassing bogofilter?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spoofed Addresses

2004-10-29 Thread David Relson
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:13:21 +0200
Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 8:24 PM -0400 2004-10-29, David Relson wrote:
> 
> >  Part of asking the question was to learn whether mailman has any
> >  ability to verify addresses.  I wasn't aware of anything, which
> >  doesn't mean it can't be done.  Along a similar vein, I'm wondering
> >  if there are ways for postfix and procmail to validate addresses.
> 
>   How would it verify the address?  By the time that Mailman gets 
> the message, it's already been accepted by your MTA.

Brad,

I'm well aware that mailman has features beyond what I need and use.  As
there was a chance it could do something magical for cases like this, I
thought I'd ask :-)

...[snip]...

>   I guess you could set up forced moderation for all users, so
>   that 
> a human being has to take a manual action for each message in order 
> to approve it.  That's not a very scalable solution, however.

As you say, not scalable :-(

My mail handling environment is composed of postfix, procmail,
bogofilter, and mailman.  All incoming messages are _supposed_ to be
processed by bogofilter, which adds a spam/ham tag to the message
header.  Messages to "mydomain.com" have the tags, but messages to
"mylists.org" do not (as confirmed by looking at *.pck in held-msgs).
Can you point me towards a FAQ, HOWTO, or other document which might
shed light on why this is so?

Thanks.

David
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using one email address for posting and admin

2004-10-29 Thread Mark Sapiro
Fa Yoeu wrote:

>I want to use one email address for posting and administrative
>functions.  Is this possible with mailman?  Currently I have the
>following setup.
>
>1.  Mail is forwarded from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to one [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>2.  Mail from ISP is retrieved using fetchmail with one user account.
>
>All posting to the list is working correctly.  However ...
>
>1.  When mail is sent to list-request, it is caught and pending with
>reason administrative requests found.  Is there a way to force it to
>process these email.
>
>2.  When mail is sent to list-owner, it is caught and pending with
>reason, explicit destination.  Same question here, how to force it to
>recognize and process these.
>
>NOTE: that i have only one alias entry:
>## test1 mailing list
>family-list: "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post family-list"
>
>Other than that, I am happy with mailman and have been using it for months now.

Mailman won't work if all mail to all listname-* is forwarded to a
single address. What you have above is all mail ending up piped to 
"/var/mailman/mail/mailman post listname" which is why you are having
the problems you have. You need ultimately to pipe for example mail to
listname-request to "/var/mailman/mail/mailman request listname" and
similarly for all the other listname-* addresses.

I was going to suggest setting up a procmail following the fetchmail to
examine the envelope to and pipe the mail properly depending on
envelope to. I don't think this will work since envelope to has been
rewritten by the forwarding process. You could use ^TO_ but that's not
as reliable as envelope to.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue

2004-10-29 Thread John W. Baxter
On 10/29/2004 16:20, "Adrian Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> There does seem to be a problem with Exim accepting the Mailman connection
> speed.

Not here, but CPanel isn't involved here.

  --John
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue

2004-10-29 Thread John W. Baxter
On 10/29/2004 2:38, "Brad Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Alternatively, you can try asking on mailing lists or newsgroups
> oriented towards Exim.  But I doubt that we're going to have much of
> anything else that we can do to help.

I don't attempt to answer cpanel type questions on the exim-users list, just
as I don't attempt to answer them here.  That's quite common on both lists
(this question is already being pretty-much ignored over on the Exim
list...there was a suggestion to check the Exim logs but I don't know if
that's possible on a cpanel installation, and I did chime in to ask that).

If one has suitable access to the Exim machine, one can do
   exim -Mvl 
for a stuck message to see the log entries for that message (without regard
to log rotations).  [Mvl as in "view log"...Mvb for view body...Mvh for view
headers]  But I doubt that cpanel exports those.

  --John
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spoofed Addresses

2004-10-29 Thread Brad Knowles
At 8:24 PM -0400 2004-10-29, David Relson wrote:
 Part of asking the question was to learn whether mailman has any ability
 to verify addresses.  I wasn't aware of anything, which doesn't mean it
 can't be done.  Along a similar vein, I'm wondering if there are ways
 for postfix and procmail to validate addresses.
	How would it verify the address?  By the time that Mailman gets 
the message, it's already been accepted by your MTA.

	If you need application-level authentication, you could have 
everyone encrypt their messages to a PGP key that is registered to 
the list, and then have mmreencrypt turn around and re-encrypt that 
message to all the recipients.  See 
.

	There are no verification or authentication mechanisms inherent 
to Mailman, beyond checking what's in the headers (e.g., "From:", 
"Sender:", etc...) and what's used as the envelope sender, and seeing 
whether that address is allowed to post (i.e., they are a subscriber, 
or whatever).

	I guess you could set up forced moderation for all users, so that 
a human being has to take a manual action for each message in order 
to approve it.  That's not a very scalable solution, however.

So far as I know, that's about it.
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using withlist to set bounce options

2004-10-29 Thread Mark Sapiro
Kyle Banerjee wrote:
>
>We want to use withlist to set all our lists so that the message is simply 
> discarded if a nonmember tries to post.
>
>The help file is straightforward enough on the general syntax of the withlist 
> command, and I've found numerous examples of how to use it to perform other 
> operations. However, I still don't know how to use it to make posts from nonmembers 
> get discarded.
>

You need to define a function something like

def SetActionDiscard(mlist):
mlist.generic_nonmember_action = 3
mlist.Save()

in a file named SetActionDiscard.py

and run it with

   bin/withlist -l -a -r SetActionDiscard

i.e the information I think you're looking for is to give the lists'
attribute generic_nonmember_action the value 3.


>On an aside note, is there any place where there is a concise listing of all the 
> options that can be set with the command?
>

You could start with the output from

  bin/config_list -o filename listname

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spoofed Addresses

2004-10-29 Thread Kenneth Porter
--On Friday, October 29, 2004 8:24 PM -0400 David Relson 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Part of asking the question was to learn whether mailman has any ability
to verify addresses
I expect the biggest problem to be mobile users who post from multiple IP 
addresses. I'm somewhat bleeding edge ;) for setting up my home server for 
SMTP AUTH and sending all my mail through that. Many ISP's and commercial 
entities are starting to do this as a means of spam control.

I'm also running the MIMEDefang milter under sendmail on all mail going 
through the box, so all list posts first have to navigate SpamAssassin and 
ClamAV before getting to Mailman. That has a good chance of trapping the 
obvious spam and hostile attachments.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spoofed Addresses

2004-10-29 Thread David Relson
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:59:09 -0700
Kenneth Porter wrote:

> --On Friday, October 29, 2004 5:33 PM -0400 David Relson 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > The other one spoofed a valid subscriber's address, so mailman
> > accepted it and sent copies to all subscribers.
> 
> How do you know it's spoofed? How would mailman know?

Hi Kenneth,

Your reply is appreciated!

To answer your questions, both messages were from the same ip address,
part of a class C subnet registered to a German ISP.  The message from
[EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] is clearly
bogus because (1) it has the wrong originating ip address and (2)
mailman has verp enabled hence the sender's address is never actually
used when sending.  The subscriber's address in the other message is
_my_ address and I've got an American ip address (and which is not part
of the german subnet).  So I know _both_ messages had spoofed addresses.

Part of asking the question was to learn whether mailman has any ability
to verify addresses.  I wasn't aware of anything, which doesn't mean it
can't be done.  Along a similar vein, I'm wondering if there are ways
for postfix and procmail to validate addresses.

The question was posted here because I'm aware of that this list's
readers have a significant amount of knowledge about all things mail
related.  Honestly, I rate my mail knowledge at the rookie/novice level
which is enough to get by but not enough to answer questions such as I
asked.

Regards,

David
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spoofed Addresses

2004-10-29 Thread Kenneth Porter
--On Friday, October 29, 2004 5:33 PM -0400 David Relson 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The other one spoofed a valid subscriber's address, so mailman accepted
it and sent copies to all subscribers.
How do you know it's spoofed? How would mailman know?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue

2004-10-29 Thread Adrian Cooper
Hi Brad,

Thanks ver much for your comments.

First of all, Mailman/Exim is a standard cPanel configuration that is used
by almost all cPanel based hosting companies which is the majority.

There does seem to be a problem with Exim accepting the Mailman connection
speed.

Question: can Mailman be configured to work with SendMail to send, and Exim
to receive? I am sure that would solve the problem.

Thank you very much.

Best regards,

Adrian.



- Original Message - 
From: "Brad Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Adrian Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Mark Sapiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue


> At 10:27 AM +0100 2004-10-29, Adrian Cooper wrote:
>
> >  Thanks, but I have already asked on the cPanel forum, and no real
answers.
> >
> >  This must affect every cPanel installation as it is a default install.
> >
> >  I assume not many people must be using Mailman :)
> >
> >  Any other suggestions for fixing this?
>
> So far as I know, using Mailman and Exim together is not a
> particularly common configuration.  Likewise, using Mailman and
> cPanel together is not a common configuration.  Using the combination
> of the three may not be much less common than just two of the three,
> but it does have to further reduce the community somewhat.
>
> If Exim is a common MTA for cPanel users, then you've got at
> least two of the three bases covered by talking to them, whereas we
> could potentially help with only the Mailman part, and then only with
> the bits that the cPanel folks haven't modified.
>
>
> Alternatively, you can try asking on mailing lists or newsgroups
> oriented towards Exim.  But I doubt that we're going to have much of
> anything else that we can do to help.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>  -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>  Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
>
>

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[Mailman-Users] Using withlist to set bounce options

2004-10-29 Thread Kyle Banerjee
Howdy all,

We run over 450 lists which are constantly bombarded by spammers. Most lists 
bounce posts by nonmembers to the list administrators as well as sending a message 
back to the phony address saying that they are not authorized to post. This confuses 
many of the list administrators and generates a substantial amount of email traffic.

We want to use withlist to set all our lists so that the message is simply 
discarded if a nonmember tries to post.

The help file is straightforward enough on the general syntax of the withlist 
command, and I've found numerous examples of how to use it to perform other 
operations. However, I still don't know how to use it to make posts from nonmembers 
get discarded.

On an aside note, is there any place where there is a concise listing of all the 
options that can be set with the command?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

kyle




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[Mailman-Users] Spoofed Addresses

2004-10-29 Thread David Relson
G'day,

I'm running bogofilter's  mailing lists (user, developer, announce)
using postfix, procmail, and mailman-2.1.5.  This morning two spoofed
messages arrived.

One of them was from the user list to the developer list. As the spoofed
address wasn't a valid subscriber, the message resulted in a call for
administrative action.  No problem!!

The other one spoofed a valid subscriber's address, so mailman accepted
it and sent copies to all subscribers.  I'm not sure whether I should
give mailman a pat on the back for doing its job, or not.

Anyhow, can anyone suggest how to harden the tool chain
(postfix/procmail/mailman) so this doesn't happen again?

Thanks.

David
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[Mailman-Users] Files in my shunt directory - Need some direction...

2004-10-29 Thread Kevin W. Gagel
I have about 60+ files in my shunt directory. This is the result of a
show_qfiles, what's up? What am I supposed to do and how do I fix it?

I'm using:
Mailman 2.1.5
SuSE 8.1
PHP 4.2.2
Apache 2.0

/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/shunt # /usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles *.pck
>
1097787236.704565+b6aad3ac4471a8864840742a32d76ad752d36abd.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 74, in ?
main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 67, in main
sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in as_string
g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in flatten
self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 137, in _write
self._write_headers(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 170, in
_write_headers
print >> self._fp, v.encode()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 412, in encode
newchunks += self._split(s, charset, targetlen, splitchars)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 297, in _split
elen = charset.encoded_header_len(encoded)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Charset.py", line 341, in
encoded_header_len
return len(s)
AttributeError: Header instance has no attribute '__len__'


=
Kevin W. Gagel
Network Administrator
Information Technology Services
(250) 561-5848 local 448


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[Mailman-Users] Using one email address for posting and admin

2004-10-29 Thread Fa Yoeu
Hi,
I want to use one email address for posting and administrative
functions.  Is this possible with mailman?  Currently I have the
following setup.

1.  Mail is forwarded from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to one [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2.  Mail from ISP is retrieved using fetchmail with one user account.

All posting to the list is working correctly.  However ...

1.  When mail is sent to list-request, it is caught and pending with
reason administrative requests found.  Is there a way to force it to
process these email.

2.  When mail is sent to list-owner, it is caught and pending with
reason, explicit destination.  Same question here, how to force it to
recognize and process these.

NOTE: that i have only one alias entry:
## test1 mailing list
family-list: "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post family-list"

Other than that, I am happy with mailman and have been using it for months now.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Pig at the wedding question/diatribe

2004-10-29 Thread John Dennis
On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 17:09, Stewart Dean wrote:
> [ installation difficulty rant snipped for brevity ]

If your OS vendor (or distribution) provides packages you typically only
need to do something as simple as "install mailman" and do a few basic
post-install configuration steps. The installation complexity burden is
borne by the pre-supplied package and your life is much simpler.
-- 
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[Mailman-Users] Pig at the wedding question/diatribe

2004-10-29 Thread Stewart Dean

I really, /really/ appreciate applications that build into a single binary or a very few 
files, that can be built on a (different) build and test host, then copied over to the 
production when everything is thrashed out and ripe...you know, like Pine and UoW IMAP.
I like it because:
= it keeps the production host clean,
= updates are MUCH more manageable,
= you don't have a compiler on the production host to give hackers a way to build nasty 
things on your production machines,
= You know when you remove/replace the single/very few files, you've got everything 
cleaned out/replaced.
= there's prolly other things that don't come to mind right now.

I have just gotten to page three of INSTALL and it seems like This Will Not Be The Case 
With Mailman.  Tell me it isn't so.

I guess I'm just hopelessly behind-the-times in not wanting the installation fairy 
sprinkling files here and there and generally making heavy local dependencies.I never 
wanted to be a Hero-Wizard (who maintains the smooth running balance of the Code Forges of 
Magrathea by mighty, arcane & stupendous acts of magic...and ends up wasted), I didn't 
want to own, feed and take care of five elephants and a steam engine, I Just Wanted A 
Mailing List Manager...

Augustine's Law #405:
Anything that isn't in a design won't break
http://wallofjokes.shacknet.nu/Misc/AugustiL.html
Or tell me how wonderful it is

send hate mail to the address below
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue

2004-10-29 Thread Brad Knowles
At 10:27 AM +0100 2004-10-29, Adrian Cooper wrote:
 Thanks, but I have already asked on the cPanel forum, and no real answers.
 This must affect every cPanel installation as it is a default install.
 I assume not many people must be using Mailman :)
 Any other suggestions for fixing this?
	So far as I know, using Mailman and Exim together is not a 
particularly common configuration.  Likewise, using Mailman and 
cPanel together is not a common configuration.  Using the combination 
of the three may not be much less common than just two of the three, 
but it does have to further reduce the community somewhat.

	If Exim is a common MTA for cPanel users, then you've got at 
least two of the three bases covered by talking to them, whereas we 
could potentially help with only the Mailman part, and then only with 
the bits that the cPanel folks haven't modified.

	Alternatively, you can try asking on mailing lists or newsgroups 
oriented towards Exim.  But I doubt that we're going to have much of 
anything else that we can do to help.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue

2004-10-29 Thread Adrian Cooper
Hello,

Thanks, but I have already asked on the cPanel forum, and no real answers.

This must affect every cPanel installation as it is a default install. 

I assume not many people must be using Mailman :)

Any other suggestions for fixing this?

Thanks.

Regards,

Adrian.





> Adrian Cooper wrote:
> >
> >We have a new RH Linux/cPanel/WHM installation including Mailman.
> 
> See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 
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