Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions

[Daniel, Barry K.]

I've got the basic mailing list functionality working now!!!  I have been silly 
enough to look over a typo in my mm_cfg.py file for a couple of days now 
(SMTP_HOST, not SMPT_HOST).  I still need to turn mm-handler back on but I do 
not think that will be too hard.  Here is a description of how I have it set up 
if anyone is interested.
 
NOTE:  One thing to remember is that all mail is sent to domain.gov while all 
servers actually belong to domainpriv.gov.
 
We have Sun Messenger installed on ServerA.  It is the MTA between our inside 
domain and the outside world.  Mail comes in from the world to ServerA and is 
sent to ServerB to be virus scanned.  The scanned message is sent back to 
ServerA.  If it is a user address, the message is stored on ServerC (the mail 
store).  If it is a mailing list address, the message is forwarded to ServerD.  
ServerD uses Mailman and has Sendmail as its local MTA.  I configured the 
Sendmail mailertable to accept all domain.gov mail and route it to local for 
now (uses aliases in /etc/aliases file), but should change it to 
mailman:localhost when I turn mm-handler back on.  Thus, the mail is accepted 
at ServerD and sent to Mailman.  Mailman then sends the message to all list 
members via the MTA on ServerA, not the local Sendmail MTA 
(SMTP_HOST='ServerA').  Thus, all users get their mailing list message.
 
Thanks for all of the help  It all makes sense now, but it certainly didn't 
just a few days ago.
 
I'll check back in when I try to tweak the Mailman install.



From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Fri 6/9/2006 1:23 AM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Patrick Bogen; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging 
questions



Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Below in the /var/log/maillog file, why are the 4 posts sent to
> testlist-bounces?  I was assuming that there would be one post for
> each of the four list members (dud1,dud2,dud3,dud4).


That's right. Then the MTA returns a bounce to testlist-bounces for each
undeliverable address.


> Is it normal to
> see the testlist-bounces?


If there's a bounce.


> I have set up a mailertable on the
> receiving side of Sendmail that will accept all mail from domain.gov
> and send it to the mailman delivery agent.  On the sending side of
> Sendmail I do not use this mailertable and have set up a smart relay
> to relay the domain.gov messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
> also set the Sendmail MTAHost on the send side to this same machine.
> I have verified that I can send email directly from the server that I
> have Mailman on to this remote MTA via Sendmail.
>
>
> I agree with your assessment that Mailman seems to be trying to post
> the message to the list members.  But, why is Mailman trying to relay
> through localhost.  I set up my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to be
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] in my mm_cfg.py file.  The localhost will
> not recognize the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address but the
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] server should.  I have not overridden the
> default DELIVERY_MODULE="SMTPDirect".


Aha! DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the domain exposed to the world for
mailing TO Mailman. It has nothing to do with what domain we connect to
for sending from Mailman. That is controlled by SMTPHOST which defaults
to 'localhost'. I'm assuming that [EMAIL PROTECTED] above is a
typo and you mean domainmta1.domainpriv.gov or maybe
domainmta.domainpriv.gov since that's what you seem to actually have for
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. So assuming the Sendmail you want to send (not
receive) through is domainmta.domainpriv.gov, you want

SMTPHOST = 'domainmta.domainpriv.gov'

in mm_cfg.py.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings

[Eli Tuber]

I actually like the idea that the user can control the breakdown size and
the amount of members that are listed per page. Personally as long as the
list is sorted finding the users should not be very hard on a moderate size
list.

This is my first time posting on this users group. What would it take to
have this changes take place? I could really use them for my groups. :-)

Thanks
ET


On 6/9/06, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John W. Baxter wrote:
> >
> >I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world
> has
> >changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
> >owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.
>
>
> Actually, the distributed default is 30, but your point is still valid.
>
> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
> to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
> pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.
>
> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.
>
> Other thoughts?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web
> interface to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100,
> all) on the pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.
> 
> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk
> size = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two
> pages rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to
> find a particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member'
> function is probably better for this anyway.
> 
> Other thoughts?

I lean toward paginating without regard to the alphabet as well and
agree that finding a specific member is best done via the "find
member" search.

None of the lists I help manage are very large, all less than 2,000
members.  So those running larger lists may have good reasons for
preferring other defaults and options that I've never thought about.
And, of course, there are others that simply have different
preferences than I do even for the same size lists (or so I hear).

But it is a minor irritation every time I am in the web admin for a
list and just want to scan through it checking visually for things out
of the ordinary.  Fortunately, I have shell access (hell, root access)
everywhere I manage lists.  So I'm never unable to just open a
terminal and get the data I want.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may
be called.
-- John Stuart Mill

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
> to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
> pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.

How about chunk size and by-letter or whole-list (to apply the chunk)?
I'm willing to bet that the admin of a 300 member list would like to
display by letter, but set the chuck size huge so they see an entire 
letter on one page.

> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.

That sounds good to me. In the case of small-ish lists, skimming 2 or
3 pages to find an email address is less likely to annoy than trying
to remember which letter to start with.

z!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header

[Brad Knowles]

At 6:48 PM -0500 2006-06-09, Joseph Perrie wrote:

>   However, I still couldn't see why Sendmail would force the
>  To-header back to the canonical name when Mailman was setting it correctly.
>  Eventually, I happened across this email (
>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1998-August/004971.html)
>   on the dev list that solved the problem by manually editting sendmail.cf's
>  rulesets to bypass canonicalization. I'm sure this violates some RFC.

Yup.  The problem is, your server isn't the only one to perform 
canonicalization.  All other servers your machine talks to should do 
the same, which means that anything you do to eliminate 
canonicalization on your own machine should have absolutely no 
positive impact whatsoever.  You may think it does, but in fact 
everyone else will turn around and do to you exactly what your own 
server was doing.

>  It's absolutely wrong to do this because if you edit sendmail.mc, and
>  restart sendmail, the cf file gets regenerated automatically which
>  obliterates the change. Is there a better way to fix this without violating
>  RFCs and changing sendmail rulesets? Note: I don't have access to the DNS
>  server.

I'm sorry, the only way to really fix this problem is to fix the 
DNS.  Even if you have complete and total control over your own 
machine, you're still hosed by every other machine on the Internet.

You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings

[Mark Sapiro]

John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world has
>changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
>owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.


Actually, the distributed default is 30, but your point is still valid.

I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.

I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
= 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
probably better for this anyway.

Other thoughts?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header

[Joseph Perrie]

All of the emails sent by our server out to the mailing lists were using
the host name instead of the DNS A record for the Mailman VirtualHost. I
tried for days to fix this and eventually got the feeling that it was DNS
related. However, I still couldn't see why Sendmail would force the
To-header back to the canonical name when Mailman was setting it correctly.
Eventually, I happened across this email (
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1998-August/004971.html)
 on the dev list that solved the problem by manually editting sendmail.cf's
rulesets to bypass canonicalization. I'm sure this violates some RFC.
Although, the hack does indeed solve the problem. The actual wizardry was
to comment out the following line in sendmail.cf.


# pass to name server to make hostname canonical
# R$* $| $* < @ $* > $* $: $2 < @ $[ $3 $] > $4



It's absolutely wrong to do this because if you edit sendmail.mc, and
restart sendmail, the cf file gets regenerated automatically which
obliterates the change. Is there a better way to fix this without violating
RFCs and changing sendmail rulesets? Note: I don't have access to the DNS
server.

Tony Perrie
Engineer, STI Convergence Team, BQQA
11501 Burnet Rd, Building 906/3007C Austin, TX, 78759
Phone: 512-838-1402, T/L: 678-1402
Fax: 512-838-2132

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[Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header

[Joseph Perrie]

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is set to thecheat.example.com while the hostname of my
machine is strongbad.example.com.  All emails come from strongbad.  I'm
running sendmail.  Masquerade and Masquerade_as are configured.  I've tried
everything.  All of the FAQ suggestions, the mailing list, usenet, and the
google.  I can't seem to get my mailman install to send mail with the
correct To-header.  I've even tried rebuilding the mailman RPM for RHEL4
with configure explicitly set to use thecheat, but to no avail.  Please
help before I give up on computers and take up subsistence farming.

Thanks in advance,

Tony
http://involution.com

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings

[John W. Baxter]

On 6/8/06 6:50 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Eli Tuber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0400
>  To: mailman-users@python.org
> 
>> Is there a way to not change over to alphabetical view of the members list
>> once it has over N number of users? I have about 25 emails and would rather
>> see them all in one page then broken down by letters. It makes it easier
>> when I have to disable a couple of users from receiving an email and then
>> turning them back on.
> 
> No, but you can increase the value of N for a list.
> 
> See
> 

I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world has
changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.

  --John


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Re: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications

[Mark Sapiro]

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:
>
>I am the administrator of our mailman list server and after creating a
>new list for a list owner, it was noted that the list owner is not
>receiving bounce notifications. I see mail errors as root indicating the
>mail recipient is invalid for the delivery URL.
>
>What should I, and/or the list owner do to ensure the owner gets a
>bounce notification?


Is the owner receiving other notifications, e.g. held messages?

Is the 'owner' address correct on the admin General Options page?

Are the notices specifically turned on on the admin Bounce processing
page?

Can you be more specific about the errors you see, i.e. what specific
recipient address is invalid, where do you see these errors?

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications

[KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services)]

Hello,

I am the administrator of our mailman list server and after creating a
new list for a list owner, it was noted that the list owner is not
receiving bounce notifications. I see mail errors as root indicating the
mail recipient is invalid for the delivery URL.

What should I, and/or the list owner do to ensure the owner gets a
bounce notification?

TIA,

Bill

William P. Kenney GSEC
Unix Systems Manager
Eastern Connecticut State University
(860) 465-4688
(860) 465-4675 fax

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Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses

[Patrick Bogen]

On 6/8/06, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize several email addresses
> >for recipients who are long since moved, and whose addresses are likely
> >dead.
> >
> >How does Mailman manage these?
> In accord with the settings on the list admin Bounce processing page.

To be a bit more precise, the way this works is that Mailman goes
ahead and sends messages to these addresses. If the bounce (that is,
the remove server sends a message back saying that the original
message was undeliverable), bounce processing takes over. In general,
after some number of bounces occur (not on the same day) within some
time period, the account will be disabled, and eventually deleted.

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