Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
Mark Sapiro wrote:
(...)
To elaborate a bit, as Brad says, you need to have a web server and MTA
running. Other than that, there is no constant, even when idle, memory
usage by Mailman to support the web interface or incoming mail.
Incoming mail causes the MTA to invoke the mail wrapper which receives
the mail and passes it to a python process which stores it it the
appropriate queue and exits. Likewise, a web request causes the web
server to invoke a CGI wrapper which passes the request to a python
process which produces the output page and exits.
The heavy, continuous memory usage is in the queue runners. You may not
need to run NewsRunner at all. You can eliminate it by adding
QRUNNERS.remove(('NewsRunner',1))
to mm_cfg.py. The other 7 runners are required at least occasionally so
you can't just remove them. With a moderate amount of hacking, you
could probably revert to the old method of qrunners being started at
intervals by cron and exiting when they have nothing to do. If you
staggered the schedule, you might be able to achieve a situation where
only one or two runners were ever running at the same time. Also, some
runners like BounceRunner and RetryRunner could be run significantly
less frequently than others.
The downside to this is there is a lot of repeated work in starting the
runners, but if you have sufficient cpu and disk i/o capacity, this
might be a viable way to cut down on memory utilization.
Hmm, so I guess my plan of running mailman on a tiny mipsel-based router
will not succeed :(
Right now, with a mail and web servers it uses about 12 MB RAM, I just
had hope ~20 MB RAM would be far enough for mailman.
But it seems that without a fair amount of hacking, it won't be possible
(or even it won't be possible at all).
Anyone knows some lighter list archivers (if I just want to display
messages from a mailing list via a web interface, sorted by months,
years etc.)?
--
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Next Gen stuff (was: mailman minimal (memory) requirements?)
Mark Sapiro wrote: To elaborate a bit, as Brad says, you need to have a web server and MTA running. Personally, I would like to see Mailman break it's reliance on a local local webserver. Currently you can't really move the Mailman logic (queue, archives, notifications, sign-up pages, admin pages, etc) to separate hosts without involving NFS or other shared fs technology. I think with a little RPC or other technology it would be *great* to start breaking things apart in the next generation stuff. Not so much for scalability, but for redundancy. Just my $.02. -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Next Generation
-Jim Popovitch wrote- Personally, I would like to see Mailman break it's reliance on a local local webserver. Currently you can't really move the Mailman logic (queue, archives, notifications, sign-up pages, admin pages, etc) to separate hosts without involving NFS or other shared fs technology. I think with a little RPC or other technology it would be *great* to start breaking things apart in the next generation stuff. Not so much for scalability, but for redundancy. Just my $.02. -Jim P. This sounds like a great idea; especially for memory consumption, at least in my opinion. But then, I'm not too knowledgable when it comes to networking; as of yet. I'm wondering, what other purposes could this serve. I'm thinking, if there's a decent benifit scale, it may draw some attention to the developers. Hmmm? Troy B. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In a flurry of recycled electrons, Brad Knowles wrote: Tomasz Chmielewski wrote: I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and ~100 MB swap). So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements. Given these numbers, I wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap and 128MB of RAM. FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap on an old Compaq P90. Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache, postfix, and bind. Not very speedy, but works well enough for 50 member lists. top tells me: Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot Free: 11M Swap: 41M/200M used/tot I don't think you're going to cut down those memory requirements by much, at least not for Mailman itself. You might be able to find a web server that requires less swap and RAM, and an MTA that is lighter in requirements, but in my experience Mailman itself is pretty much the same all over. There are tiny web and smtp servers, but I suspect that most of them will be missing -some- feature that mailman needs. While trying to shoehorn a working system onto some interesting platform can be fun, life will be easier if you can add a bunch of memory. z! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Next Gen stuff (was: mailman minimal (memory) requirements?)
Jim Popovitch wrote: Mark Sapiro wrote: To elaborate a bit, as Brad says, you need to have a web server and MTA running. Personally, I would like to see Mailman break it's reliance on a local local webserver. Currently you can't really move the Mailman logic (queue, archives, notifications, sign-up pages, admin pages, etc) to separate hosts without involving NFS or other shared fs technology. Feel free to put that on the wish list via the Mailman wiki at http://wiki.list.org/, or file an RFE via the SourceForge page at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103atid=350103. If you could help code up such a feature, please take the rest of this discussion to the mailman-developers list. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
Carl Zwanzig wrote:
I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and
~100 MB swap).
So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space
and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements. Given these numbers, I
wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap
and 128MB of RAM.
FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap
on an old Compaq P90. Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache,
postfix, and bind. Not very speedy, but works well enough for 50 member
lists.
Cool. I'll update the FAQ entry with this info.
top tells me:
Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot Free: 11M Swap: 41M/200M used/tot
Can you get more process-specific information about Mailman, apache,
postfix, and BIND?
On the BSD system I previously quoted from, I was running commands like:
% ps auxww | grep -i mailman | awk '{ sum+=$5 } END { print sum }'
... in order to get the VSZ (virtual size) information, and using
...$6... to get the physical RAM usage.
There are tiny web and smtp servers, but I suspect that most of them will
be missing -some- feature that mailman needs. While trying to shoehorn a
working system onto some interesting platform can be fun, life will be
easier if you can add a bunch of memory.
Yup. But it would be interesting to do some tests and see if we can find
out what a reasonable minimum system configuration really is for these
kinds of things. Your 64MB/200MB system is smaller than I thought would
work even moderately well (based on the information I had gathered), but
it may be that we could cut things down even more.
--
Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/.
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
Brad Knowles wrote: Carl Zwanzig wrote: I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and ~100 MB swap). So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements. Given these numbers, I wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap and 128MB of RAM. FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap on an old Compaq P90. Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache, postfix, and bind. Not very speedy, but works well enough for 50 member lists. Cool. I'll update the FAQ entry with this info. top tells me: Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot Free: 11M Swap: 41M/200M used/tot You can update it with really minimal system: I added some more swap, and mailman started :) So right now, it is: - debian running on a 200 MHz mipsel CPU / 32 MB router (ASUS WL-500G deluxe) - usb stick with 256 MB swap - system on another USB-stick - it runs apache2, postfix, sshd, openvpn, ez-ipupdate, crond, pppd and syslog - it acts as a internet gateway to a couple of PCs I wouldn't say that mailman is speedy there - an average operation in the mailman web interface can take even 10-15-20 seconds. But the thing that was the most important to me: web archive, works fast, and on average, it takes less than a second to serve a page. Provided that it's not a PC, but a router with a size of a book, with filesystem and swap on usb-sticks, I would say it's OK to keep an archive of a small site. -- Tomasz Chmielewski Software deployment with Samba http://wpkg.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
thus Tomasz Chmielewski spake: Brad Knowles wrote: Carl Zwanzig wrote: I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and ~100 MB swap). So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements. Given these numbers, I wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap and 128MB of RAM. FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap on an old Compaq P90. Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache, postfix, and bind. Not very speedy, but works well enough for 50 member lists. Cool. I'll update the FAQ entry with this info. top tells me: Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot Free: 11M Swap: 41M/200M used/tot You can update it with really minimal system: I added some more swap, and mailman started :) So right now, it is: - debian running on a 200 MHz mipsel CPU / 32 MB router (ASUS WL-500G deluxe) - usb stick with 256 MB swap - system on another USB-stick - it runs apache2, postfix, sshd, openvpn, ez-ipupdate, crond, pppd and syslog - it acts as a internet gateway to a couple of PCs I wouldn't say that mailman is speedy there - an average operation in the mailman web interface can take even 10-15-20 seconds. hm, that might be python causing paging on the machine; however, maybe if you use a httpd with smaller footprint (lighthttpd, thttpd) this avoids paging and makes the machine faster. just speculation, tho... But the thing that was the most important to me: web archive, works fast, and on average, it takes less than a second to serve a page. Provided that it's not a PC, but a router with a size of a book, with filesystem and swap on usb-sticks, I would say it's OK to keep an archive of a small site. MIPS rules ;) -- Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | [EMAIL PROTECTED] RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message ISP | POWER PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services GPG Key fingerprint = B5F6 68A4 EC45 C309 6770 38C4 50E8 2740 9E0C F20A There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
Timo Schoeler wrote: (...) You can update it with really minimal system: I added some more swap, and mailman started :) So right now, it is: - debian running on a 200 MHz mipsel CPU / 32 MB router (ASUS WL-500G deluxe) - usb stick with 256 MB swap - system on another USB-stick - it runs apache2, postfix, sshd, openvpn, ez-ipupdate, crond, pppd and syslog - it acts as a internet gateway to a couple of PCs I wouldn't say that mailman is speedy there - an average operation in the mailman web interface can take even 10-15-20 seconds. hm, that might be python causing paging on the machine; however, maybe if you use a httpd with smaller footprint (lighthttpd, thttpd) this avoids paging and makes the machine faster. just speculation, tho... I'd gain a megabyte or two, perhaps I could get rid of postfix and install something smaller, too, but I'm too lazy :) But the thing that was the most important to me: web archive, works fast, and on average, it takes less than a second to serve a page. Provided that it's not a PC, but a router with a size of a book, with filesystem and swap on usb-sticks, I would say it's OK to keep an archive of a small site. MIPS rules ;) I forgot some numbers: # free total used free sharedbuffers cached Mem: 29664 25360 4304 0652 7364 -/+ buffers/cache: 17344 12320 Swap: 255744 33296 222448 -- Tomasz Chmielewski Software deployment with Samba http://wpkg.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Script problem
I am trying to write a script which will email me a list of all the lists and their members. I was able to find the following below but keep getting errors when I try and execute it. I have made the file executable. for i in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b`; do j=`/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members $i |wc -l` echo list $i has $j members done Jewel -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
Tomasz Chmielewski wrote: You can update it with really minimal system: I added some more swap, and mailman started :) Cool. I've updated the page. I wouldn't say that mailman is speedy there - an average operation in the mailman web interface can take even 10-15-20 seconds. It would be interesting to know how much memory (both virtual and real) were being taken up by Mailman, your MTA, your webserver, etc If we can get those kinds of numbers for your system, Carl's, the systems I have access to, and maybe some others, then we can start to put together a better set of recommendations based on traffic and resources. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Script problem
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jewel wrote: I am trying to write a script which will email me a list of all the lists and their members. The script below will only output a count of list members (that's what the |wc -l does). I was able to find the following below but keep getting errors when I try and execute it. What are the errors? I have made the file executable. You'd also need to include a #!/path/to/your/shell at the top, probably #!/bin/sh in this case. for i in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b`; do j=`/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members $i |wc -l` ^^ Remove the |wc -l if you want to get the list members. With the -l option, wc will simply print the number of lines in the output it's given. I think this is more like what you're asking for: #!/bin/sh for list in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b`; do echo $list members: /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members $list echo done You could also create a separate email for each list which might make it easier to keep track of once it reached your mailbox. There are probably some scripts like this in the FAQ, and there are surely some in the list archives. Jon Carnes posted some way back, IIRC. - -- ToddOpenPGP - KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp == Everyone needs to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl. iG0EARECAC0FAkSppAcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1plGACeOnGm0E3XF49YbTJKRWX0eSGkG38An3fXl4BC tl8gXskTEe+/EjPVdbLJ =qO/Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
