Re: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation

[deepali]

This explains why your patch didn't work for me!  I was trying to  
turn off the "your email command was successful" emails that get sent  
back when the user subscribes to a listserve.  From what you've said  
below, the patch addresses some other issue.

Thanks for your time,
- Deepali


On Dec 11, 2006, at 6:12 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ben Swihart wrote:
>>
>> My problem is resolved, as far as this particular use of mailman.
>> However, if you set mailman to show the None option and select it,  
>> that
>> appears to cause the e-mail command results bug.
>
>
> Aaahh - the light dawns. I didn't realize the 'command results' email
> was in response to the 'subscribe' email. I thought it was in response
> to a 'confirm' email.
>
> So, yes, if you have ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes in mm_cfg.py and have
> the list's subscribe_policy = None, you will get both a welcome
> message and a 'results of your email commands' message in response to
> a successful 'subscribe' command. Both the base code which avoids
> sending a response to a successful 'confirm' if a welcome will be sent
> and the patch which I sent which avoids responding to all successful
> 'confirms' only address 'confirm' commands, not 'subscribe' commands.
>
> So yes, it may be a bug in that it is not necessary to send a  
> 'results'
> message if the subscribe requires no confirmation or approval and a
> welcome will be sent, but it is not a bug in the sense of code not
> working as intended, because it was never intended to recognize this
> case and not send the results.
>
> However, I'm still confused about unsubscription confirmation. The
> list's subscribe_policy shouldn't affect this. It is affected by
> unsubscribe_policy in that if unsubscribe requires moderator approval,
> no user confirmation is required, but otherwise, confirmation is
> required unless the users password was provided in the email
> unsubscribe command or the user logged in and unsubscribed from the
> options page.
>
> Perhaps it is a cPanel modification to allow unconfirmed unsubscribes
> when subscribe_policy is None.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] conversion (from Listproc)

[Rob Dewhirst]

On Dec 7, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Melinda wrote:
>
>> I could use some pointers in my conversion from Listproc to Mailman.

> This question is so broad as to be almost beyond the scope of this
> list. I'll just say a few things.
>
> List archives need to be exported as a flat file in *nix mbox format,
> and this can be used to create a Mailman archive.

LISTPROC can't deliver its archives in this format (AFAIK), so there  
will be munging involved.

Personally, I would ask if someone using a mbox mail app to read the  
list (Pine, Thunderbird, Eudora, etc) has a complete archive of the  
list, and use their archive file as a basis for importing into  
mailman instead of trying to use the INDex and GET file commands in  
LISTPROC to access the old archives.

If LISTPROC archive files are anything like LISTSERV notebook files,  
I posted a message a couple of months back to the list outlining how  
to convert them.

I converted from LISTSERV (though I use LISTPROC for work as well) to  
Mailman this year, and the biggest problem is user subscription and  
list options though, not archives.  I would suspect the same is true  
for LISTPROC.

It would help to know a little more about Melinda's list -- its  
general settings, number of subscribers, and even if it has  
archives.  It's pretty easy to translate the results of a REView  
command to a mailman list settings unless the list has some very  
strange settings.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Pipelining with Mailman?

[Mark Sapiro]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>I have a question regarding pipelining, etc.  If my mailing list has 600
>subscribers from domain.com, will Mailman combined with my MTA (Postfix)
>pipeline all of these messages that are destined to the same domain?


Maybe.


>From
>what I understand,  it will do this and send all of these messages with
>one unique Message ID, instead of 300 separate Message Id's.  This should
>reduce the likelihood that the remote mail server will filter my emails as
>spam.  Does this sound right?


First, all the messages sent by Mailman for one post will have the same
Message-Id: which will be the Message-Id: from the incoming post.

The messages will be sent from Mailman to Postfix in a number of SMTP
transactions, each of which will have one MAIL FROM command and either
one or many RCPT TO commands. The number of recipients per transaction
will be one if the list is personalized or if the delivery is VERP'd.
Otherwise, the number will be as many as possible up to SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
(default = 500).

The chunks of size SMTP_MAX_RCPTS are created by grouping the
recipients (which are in a hashed order to start with) by top level
domain. All .com addresses are in one group, .net and .org are in a
second group, .edu, .us and .ca are in a third group and all the rest
are in a fourth group. The chunks are created by pulling up to
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS addresses from a group until it's empty.

Thus, depending on list size and SMTP_MAX_RCPTS, a chunk may or may not
contain all or most of the addresses in a given domain - top level
domains are grouped, but fully qualified domains are not grouped
within the top level.

Once a particular chunk is delivered to the MTA (Postfix), the MTA will
normally group all the recipients of that chunk by receiving domain
and send one transaction to the receiving domain containing all the
recipients from that chunk in that domain. The MTA will not group
recipients from the same domain from two different chunks, as it
doesn't know that the message content of two chunks is the same.


>I am basing my argument that we need to
>switch to Mailman on the fact that the old script takes ages (several
>hours) and that it is more likely to get us blacklisted because of the
>method of sending mail that it uses.


Mailman/Postfix should certainly be able to improve significantly on
the 'several hours'. Whether the receiving domain's getting one or a
few messages with several recipients each vs. a bunch of individual
messages is more or less likely to trigger the receiving domain's
blacklisting is something that probably depends on the receiving
domain and something that the receiving domain might consider a secret.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Pipelining with Mailman?

[matt]

Hi all,

I am in the process of converting an old script that reads thru a text
file and sends an email to a few thousand people (this is a legit business
opt-in newsletter).

I have a question regarding pipelining, etc.  If my mailing list has 600
subscribers from domain.com, will Mailman combined with my MTA (Postfix)
pipeline all of these messages that are destined to the same domain?  From
what I understand,  it will do this and send all of these messages with
one unique Message ID, instead of 300 separate Message Id’s.  This should
reduce the likelihood that the remote mail server will filter my emails as
spam.  Does this sound right?  I am basing my argument that we need to
switch to Mailman on the fact that the old script takes ages (several
hours) and that it is more likely to get us blacklisted because of the
method of sending mail that it uses.

Please help me make sense of this.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation

[Mark Sapiro]

Ben Swihart wrote:
>
>My problem is resolved, as far as this particular use of mailman.  
>However, if you set mailman to show the None option and select it, that 
>appears to cause the e-mail command results bug.


Aaahh - the light dawns. I didn't realize the 'command results' email
was in response to the 'subscribe' email. I thought it was in response
to a 'confirm' email.

So, yes, if you have ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes in mm_cfg.py and have
the list's subscribe_policy = None, you will get both a welcome
message and a 'results of your email commands' message in response to
a successful 'subscribe' command. Both the base code which avoids
sending a response to a successful 'confirm' if a welcome will be sent
and the patch which I sent which avoids responding to all successful
'confirms' only address 'confirm' commands, not 'subscribe' commands.

So yes, it may be a bug in that it is not necessary to send a 'results'
message if the subscribe requires no confirmation or approval and a
welcome will be sent, but it is not a bug in the sense of code not
working as intended, because it was never intended to recognize this
case and not send the results.

However, I'm still confused about unsubscription confirmation. The
list's subscribe_policy shouldn't affect this. It is affected by
unsubscribe_policy in that if unsubscribe requires moderator approval,
no user confirmation is required, but otherwise, confirmation is
required unless the users password was provided in the email
unsubscribe command or the user logged in and unsubscribed from the
options page.

Perhaps it is a cPanel modification to allow unconfirmed unsubscribes
when subscribe_policy is None.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation

[Dragon]

Ben Swihart sent the message below at 14:25 12/11/2006:
>Sorry if I confused you.  Allow me to clarify.  First, I am using
>version 2.1.9.cp1, which I don't think I have mentioned so far.
>
>What I really wanted was to turn off unsubscription confirmations, as we
>don't feel there is a threat of malicious "spoof" unsubscribes on this
>particularly benign list about art events.  However, you can only turn
>off *all* confirmations (by selecting "None" in 'What steps are required
>for subscription?'), which I did and was experimenting with to see if it
>could work.  When I did this, e-mail command results were being
>e-mailed. Since I can't fix that problem, I have set "What steps are
>required for subscription?" to Confirm.
>
>Thank you for answering my question - there is no way to turn off only
>unsubscription confirmation e-mails.
>
>Note: I applied a patch and reviewed your previous e-mail (referenced
>below) and have followed instructions carefully and verified the code is
>as you have suggested. And restarted.
>
>My problem is resolved, as far as this particular use of mailman.
>However, if you set mailman to show the None option and select it, that
>appears to cause the e-mail command results bug.
 End original message. -

Oh. cPanel.

That could very well be the problem here. The standard mailman 
installation form source gives two options on the Privacy Options 
Subscription Rules page. The first is for subscription with settings 
of "Confirm", "Require Approval" and "Both". It also gives a setting 
for confirming unsubscription with options of "Yes" and "No".

It may well be that cPanel does not expose both options. But since I 
do not have access to a cPanel installation, I can't say that for sure.

Since you are using cPanel, you may have to direct your query to them 
as the mailman developers know little about what cPanel has done to 
the mailman code base.

Dragon

~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation

[Ben Swihart]

Sorry if I confused you.  Allow me to clarify.  First, I am using 
version 2.1.9.cp1, which I don't think I have mentioned so far.

What I really wanted was to turn off unsubscription confirmations, as we 
don't feel there is a threat of malicious "spoof" unsubscribes on this 
particularly benign list about art events.  However, you can only turn 
off *all* confirmations (by selecting "None" in 'What steps are required 
for subscription?'), which I did and was experimenting with to see if it 
could work.  When I did this, e-mail command results were being 
e-mailed. Since I can't fix that problem, I have set "What steps are 
required for subscription?" to Confirm.

Thank you for answering my question - there is no way to turn off only 
unsubscription confirmation e-mails.

Note: I applied a patch and reviewed your previous e-mail (referenced 
below) and have followed instructions carefully and verified the code is 
as you have suggested. And restarted.

My problem is resolved, as far as this particular use of mailman.  
However, if you set mailman to show the None option and select it, that 
appears to cause the e-mail command results bug.

Thank you,

Ben


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ben Swihart wrote:
>   
>> Because we are unable to stop mailman from delivering e-mail command 
>> results to our subscribers, we have gone back to a confirmation system 
>> whereby an e-mail is sent to users when a subscription request is made.
>> 
>
>
> Now I'm really confused. I thought that what was happening before was
> your users would submit a subscription request and receive a confirm
> email saying they needed to reply (or visit a web link) to confirm
> their subscription, and when they replied to the confirm email, they
> would get both a 'results of your email commands' message and a list
> welcome message, and you didn't want both. And I said I didn't
> understand why the user was sent the 'results of your email commands'
> commands message because it shouldn't be sent in this case.
>
> Now it sounds like this is the system you have 'gone back to', so what
> were you doing before?
>
> Also, I was trying to work with you to find out what the problem is. I
> asked some questions in my reply at
> .
> Did you answer these off list? There is nothing in the archive.
> Anyway, they may not be the correct questions as it now seems I didn't
> understand what you were doing.
>
>   
>   
>> However, we feel that unsubscription confirmation is uncessary and the 
>> unsub e-mail is basically an extra step.  How do you turn off the unsub 
>> confirmation e-mail and keep the sub confirmation e-mail?
>> 
>
>
> The only way for a user to unsubscribe without a confirmation is to log
> in to her options page with her password and unsubscribe from there.
> Any other unsubscribe method can be easily spoofed, thus a
> confirmation is required. I don't know if you were avoiding this in
> the past, and if you were, I don't know how, at least not without
> modifying code.
>
>   
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation

[Mark Sapiro]

Ben Swihart wrote:
>
>Because we are unable to stop mailman from delivering e-mail command 
>results to our subscribers, we have gone back to a confirmation system 
>whereby an e-mail is sent to users when a subscription request is made.


Now I'm really confused. I thought that what was happening before was
your users would submit a subscription request and receive a confirm
email saying they needed to reply (or visit a web link) to confirm
their subscription, and when they replied to the confirm email, they
would get both a 'results of your email commands' message and a list
welcome message, and you didn't want both. And I said I didn't
understand why the user was sent the 'results of your email commands'
commands message because it shouldn't be sent in this case.

Now it sounds like this is the system you have 'gone back to', so what
were you doing before?

Also, I was trying to work with you to find out what the problem is. I
asked some questions in my reply at
.
Did you answer these off list? There is nothing in the archive.
Anyway, they may not be the correct questions as it now seems I didn't
understand what you were doing.

  
>However, we feel that unsubscription confirmation is uncessary and the 
>unsub e-mail is basically an extra step.  How do you turn off the unsub 
>confirmation e-mail and keep the sub confirmation e-mail?


The only way for a user to unsubscribe without a confirmation is to log
in to her options page with her password and unsubscribe from there.
Any other unsubscribe method can be easily spoofed, thus a
confirmation is required. I don't know if you were avoiding this in
the past, and if you were, I don't know how, at least not without
modifying code.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation

[Dave Foran]

There is an option in the unscribe page that  toggles those 2 options on or
off

http://someuseslessdomain/mailman/admin/xxx//members/remove

x== list name

Dave



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Ben Swihart
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 15:26
> To: Mailman-Users@python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Because we are unable to stop mailman from delivering e-mail command
> results to our subscribers, we have gone back to a confirmation system
> whereby an e-mail is sent to users when a subscription request is made.
> However, we feel that unsubscription confirmation is uncessary and the
> unsub e-mail is basically an extra step.  How do you turn off the unsub
> confirmation e-mail and keep the sub confirmation e-mail?
>
> Thank you,
> Ben
> --
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[Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation

[Ben Swihart]

Hello,

Because we are unable to stop mailman from delivering e-mail command 
results to our subscribers, we have gone back to a confirmation system 
whereby an e-mail is sent to users when a subscription request is made.  
However, we feel that unsubscription confirmation is uncessary and the 
unsub e-mail is basically an extra step.  How do you turn off the unsub 
confirmation e-mail and keep the sub confirmation e-mail?

Thank you,
Ben
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Filtering on subject prefix

[Mark Sapiro]

Gordon Moyer wrote:

>I am running mailman 2.1.9 and I'd like to auto discard list emails
>with a subject prefix of "***SPAM***" (this is being done by
>spamasassin).  I've been looking for rule documentation, and haven't
>been able to find any.
>
>Can anyone tell me what the rule would look like that would filter on
>this subject prefix?  ...Or maybe someone can point me toward any rule
>documentation that exists.


header_filter_rules have a regular expression (regexp) and an action.
The regexp is a Python regexp which is searched case insensitively
against the message headers including part headers of multipart
messages. See  for
documentation of Python regexp syntax.

In your case, you may want something like

  ^subject:\s*\*\*\*spam\*\*\*

to match a header that begins with 'subject:' followed by zero or more
whitespace characters (\s*) vollowed by three literal asterisks
followed by 'spam' followed by three more literal asterisks (although,
you probably want five asterisks, not three).

However, to get spamassassin flagged messages, I would use instead

  ^x-spam-flag:\s*yes$

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