Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove

[Brad Knowles]

On 3/22/08, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

>  My experience matches yours: I think we're all walking around with various
>  (differing) lists of role mailbox names that we picked up over time.
>  Do you think it'd be worth the effort to attempt to bring all those
>  together, figure out which ones are worth recommending (or mandating),
>  and then updating 2142?

That sounds like a good idea.  This would also give us the 
opportunity to make some recommendations as to things you should or 
should not do with those addresses, like subscribing to mailing lists 
with "[EMAIL PROTECTED]", or whatever.

-- 
Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation

[Mark Sapiro]

Matt Morgan wrote:
>... and after I left they switched
>to some Postini-like service (which does not have user-level adaptation, as
>far as I can tell).


Postini, at least as provided to customers of amerion.com and its
subsidiary domains, does provide user-level controls.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation

[Rich Kulawiec]

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 08:50:45PM -0400, Matt Morgan wrote:
> Are there corporate, enterprise spam-killing services that work on a
> user-by-user basis, rather than a message-by-message basis? For example,
> where the same message, sent to a few different people, might be rejected as
> spam for one recipient but not others?

Yes, there are.  There are also innumerable ways to handle this using
open-source software coupled with MTAs like sendmail, postfix, etc.

But (and I'll try to keep this very short since it's off-topic,
so contact me off-list to discuss) I consider it a major strategic
mistake to attempt this.  Per-user exceptions only benefit the enemy.
And under no circumstances should users be permitted to control them:
they're clearly incapable, as they've proven hundreds of millions of
times (if not more) and continue to prove all day every day.  See also
item #5 on Marcus Ranum's most excellent:

The Six Dumbest Ideas in Computer Security
http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/editorials/dumb/

---Rsk
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Re: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation

[Paul]

How about just using http://www.spamhaus.org/?  Configure it in your MTA,
and it'll tell the sender if he's been rejected.  There are others, but
that one seems to be the best without false positives.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] merging 2 mbox files

[Mark Sapiro]

Christopher X. Candreva wrote:

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, Mark Heer wrote:

reproduced the file just as I had concatenated it. Is there a way to merge 
2 same list mboxes into 1 properly sequenced mbox?


If this is a one-time thing for the transition, you could load them into a 
mail program, move all the messages to a single folder, sort the folder 
by date, then save all to another folder again. I've done this with Pine. 



I hacked a crude script to do the merge. It needs more work to become a 
really useful tool such as a switch to choose between the UnixMailbox 
(more strict From_ recognition) and PortableUnixMailbox (loose From_ 
recognition) classes and a switch to choose whether Date: or 
X-List-Received-Date: is the preferred merge key, but I have attached it 
in case it may be useful.


--
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

#! /bin/env python
""" Merge two mailboxes by the Date: header value.
Fall back to X-List-Received-Date: if Date: not usable.
Should X-List-Received-Date: be first?

This is not well tested, and it assumes all messages in
both mbox files are parseable by email.message_from_file().

Usage: mbmerge path/to/mbox1 path/to/mbox2 > result
"""

import sys
import email
import mailbox

lasttime = 0
BIGTIME = 100. * 365.25 * 24. * 3600.

def main():
if len(sys.argv) <> 3:
print >> sys.stderr, \
'Usage: ', sys.argv[0], ' mbox1 mbox2 > result'
sys.exit(1)
fp1 = open(sys.argv[1])
mb1 = mailbox.UnixMailbox(fp1, email.message_from_file)
fp2 = open(sys.argv[2])
mb2 = mailbox.UnixMailbox(fp2, email.message_from_file)
gen = email.Generator.Generator(sys.stdout)
m1, t1 = get_next(mb1)
m2, t2 = get_next(mb2)
while m1 or m2:
if t1 < t2:
gen.flatten(m1, unixfrom=True)
m1, t1 = get_next(mb1)
else:
gen.flatten(m2, unixfrom=True)
m2, t2 = get_next(mb2)

def get_next(mb):
global lasttime
msg = mb.next()
if msg is None:
datime = BIGTIME
else:
datime = email.Utils.parsedate_tz(msg['date'])
if datime:
datime = email.Utils.mktime_tz(datime)
lasttime = datime
else:
datime = email.Utils.parsedate_tz(msg['x-list-received-date'])
if datime:
datime = email.Utils.mktime_tz(datime)
lasttime = datime
else:
datime = lasttime
return msg, datime


if __name__ == '__main__':
main()
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Re: [Mailman-Users] merging 2 mbox files

[Christopher X. Candreva]

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, Mark Heer wrote:

> reproduced the file just as I had concatenated it. Is there a way to merge 
> 2 same list mboxes into 1 properly sequenced mbox?

If this is a one-time thing for the transition, you could load them into a 
mail program, move all the messages to a single folder, sort the folder 
by date, then save all to another folder again. I've done this with Pine. 

For a batch job this would be sub-optimal.


==
Chris Candreva  -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/
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Re: [Mailman-Users] corporate spam filter operation

[Matt Morgan]

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On 3/21/08, Matt Morgan wrote:
>
> >  Are there corporate, enterprise spam-killing services that work on a
> >  user-by-user basis, rather than a message-by-message basis? For
> example,
> >  where the same message, sent to a few different people, might be
> rejected as
> >  spam for one recipient but not others?
>
> You mean commercial systems that would be suitable for use in an
> Enterprise environment?  Not that I am aware of.
>
> There are some tools like SpamAssassin that can be configured to have
> a database that stores the settings of an individual user and then
> applies those to the incoming messages, but that's non-trivial to set
> up and manage.  It can be done, but it takes some work, and there's
> definitely a cost that you end up paying in terms of higher
> administrative overhead in managing that system.


This is what I'm getting at. Last time I was in charge of email for a
corporate system (which is a few years ago, now), we used SA to mark
incoming messages as spam when it scored high enough, and then let users
take care of it locally with Thunderbird's adaptive filters. But spam was
getting worse, and helping users to understand adaptive filtering was too
hard--moving the adaptive filtering to the server wasn't going to work. We
needed something that worked all by itself, and after I left they switched
to some Postini-like service (which does not have user-level adaptation, as
far as I can tell).

Thanks, everyone, for the comments.

--Matt
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam backscatter: Which aliases to remove

[Rich Kulawiec]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:56:07PM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 3/20/08, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> 
> >  (Incidentally, I'm not aware of any current effort to update RFC 2142.)
> 
> Not any current efforts to update 2142, no.  But there are other 
> standard role mailbox names that I've seen used and recommended, 
> although I have not yet been able to locate a source for some of 
> those.

My experience matches yours: I think we're all walking around with various
(differing) lists of role mailbox names that we picked up over time.
Do you think it'd be worth the effort to attempt to bring all those
together, figure out which ones are worth recommending (or mandating),
and then updating 2142?

---Rsk
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