Re: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems

[Brad Knowles]

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:


 For the web page forms to accept non-ASCII I had to put this:

add_language('en', 'English', 'utf-8')

 Into `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py`. I think utf-8 should be the default
 because even on an English list, you can use non-ASCII punctuation,
 glyphs, and many European subscribers will have non-ASCII in their names.


True enough, but the ISO Latin-1 encoding should be sufficient for 
most European subscribers.  And many of the developers for Python in 
general and Mailman in particular are from European countries, so 
internationalization is an issue that we pay a lot of attention to.


In fact, waiting for i18n to catch up is what tends to delay our 
major releases by at least a month or two -- the basic code is there 
and ready to go, but the localization strings in the various 
languages aren't.


 The mailing list letters are correct _except_ that the body now 
contains this:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64


The charset is exactly what you previously created.  The 
content-transfer-encoding is standard MIME encoding for non-ASCII 
charsets that cannot be represented in quoted-printable, or where 
more than a certain percentage of characters in a given message would 
have to be encoded.


There's absolutely nothing abnormal about that.


 I tried disabling the above utf-8 changes, but it did not seem to fix it.
 But it might be that the list language (containing utf-8) was copied at
 list creation time, so I will effectively have to recreate the list (or
 write Python code) to change this?


The charset would have been set at list creation time, yes.  But the 
content-transfer-encoding settings follows from standard practice for 
MIME encoding.



If you want to go fix the MIME encoding routines to work some other 
way, you're going to have a lot more heavy lifting to do.  Among 
other things, all your changes to this code will get wiped out with 
the next upgrade, so you'll need to make sure you keep a copy to the 
side which you can use to re-patch the code to implement things the 
way you want them.


Alternatively, go talk to the authors of the MIME encoding routines 
and see if you can get them to change their minds.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Queue problems

[Brad Knowles]

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:


 I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen of these
 has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:

delivery to «address» failed with code 450:
4.1.2 «address»: Recipient address rejected:
Domain not found


You're doing DNS validation on your outbound 
mail.  Don't do that.  Pay attention to the stuff 
in section 6 of the FAQ, especially including 
6.6, 6.8, 6.12, etc


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Re: [Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)

[Brad Knowles]

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:


 I copied a list's mbox to a new server and regenerated the archive.

 Unfortunately threading is not rendered satisfyingly, here are the
 two Mailman/pipermail versions:


Your threading got broken somehow, but I can't tell you how.  This 
would need further investigation.


One thing that strikes me is to ask whether you copied the "cooked" 
text archives or the raw mbox archives, before regeneration?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems with the who command (migrating lists FAQ)

[Brad Knowles]

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:


 I followed the FAQ' and sent a `who «password»` to my old list (where I
 am administrator). This scheme had the following problems:

 1. All user settings are lost (digest, no email, etc.).
 2. It does not return subscribers with concealed identity (hide).
 3. User names with accents came through mangled.


It also does not get any of the users who have 
set themselves to be invisible to everyone else.


If you want to properly move a list from one 
machine to another, you need to use a different 
mechanism.  See FAQ 3.4 at 
.



 I suggest updating the FAQ and/or improve the `who` command to return
 concealed users to the list administrator. Would also be nice if the
 mass subscribe could optionally take per user settings and `who` would
 return these.


These issues are dealt with when the proper methods are used to move a list.


' http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.4


We're not using this anymore.  See 
 
instead.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to enable VERP?

[Brad Knowles]

On 6/17/08, Allan Odgaard wrote:


 When I look at the letters I receive from my list they do not have
 my subscription address in the `Return-Path` header, so I suspect
 VERP is disabled.


Correct.


 I have placed the following in `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg:`

VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes


Here are all of the VERP* definitions from Defaults.py that you can 
consider changing:


VERP_PROBES = No
VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No

And here are the settings for personalization:

VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = No


If you change any of these, make sure to stop and restart Mailman for 
them to take effect.



 But I also see options about list personalization. Do I need to also
 enable that stuff?


Yes.

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[Mailman-Users] How to enable VERP?

[Allan Odgaard]

When I look at the letters I receive from my list they do not have my  
subscription address in the `Return-Path` header, so I suspect VERP is  
disabled.


I have placed the following in `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg:`

VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

But I also see options about list personalization. Do I need to also  
enable that stuff?


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[Mailman-Users] Spaces inserted in subjects

[Allan Odgaard]

On a new list I had this set in `mm_cfg.py` at creation time:

OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = No

This caused extra spaces between the tag inserted and the subject for  
letters sent to the list.


I suspected that this option was the problem, but I was unable to  
disable it again (seems to be another one of those options only  
settable at list creation time), so I had to traverse the source and  
eventually found the problem in `CookHeaders.py` where it does:


u' '.join([prefix, recolon, subject])

But for new letters `recolon` will be the empty string.


Using Mailman 2.1.9 (Ubuntu installation).

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[Mailman-Users] Queue problems

[Allan Odgaard]

I transferred a lot of list members from a previous list. A dozen of  
these has left errors like the following in `logs/smtp-failures`:


delivery to «address» failed with code 450:
4.1.2 «address»: Recipient address rejected:
Domain not found

This is interpreted as a temporary failure so Mailman will put the  
letter into `qfiles/retry`. Every 15th minute the retry qrunner will  
move all the retry letters back into `qfiles/out`.


My queue had gathered around 70 emails and had 10 recipients or so  
with this error, so it took more than half an hour to get through all  
of the queue (only to start over).


Since the queue is FIFO _without_ lowering the priority for retries,  
it meant that normal subscribers saw a long delay before their letter  
was delivered to other list subscribers.


I unsubscribed all addresses that were listed in `logs/smtp-failures`  
and then I had to manually delete letters from the qfiles.


But now I see another subscriber has a similar problem and is causing  
letters to pile up in qfiles affecting delivery to healthy recipients.


Seems to me that there is a flaw in this system (having retries pile  
up and starve regular delivery).



Using Mailman 2.1.9 (Ubuntu installation).

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[Mailman-Users] Encoding problems

[Allan Odgaard]

Some of my subscribers have accents and similar in their name and I  
had to do the following post install to have Mailman properly work  
with these:


## CLI

In order to get `list_members -f «list»` to properly output non-ASCII  
user names I had to put the following:


import sys
sys.setdefaultencoding('utf-8')

Into `/etc/python2.5/sitecustomize.py`. This is despite proper setup  
of `LC_CTYPE` on the system. Seems to me Mailman should use the  
encoding of the current locale, not this site-wide Python default  
encoding (settable by root only).


## Web

For the web page forms to accept non-ASCII I had to put this:

add_language('en', 'English', 'utf-8')

Into `/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py`. I think utf-8 should be the default  
because even on an English list, you can use non-ASCII punctuation,  
glyphs, and many European subscribers will have non-ASCII in their  
names.


## Mailing List

The mailing list letters are correct _except_ that the body now  
contains this:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

And yes, each letter sent to the list is converted into base64.

I tried disabling the above utf-8 changes, but it did not seem to fix  
it. But it might be that the list language (containing utf-8) was  
copied at list creation time, so I will effectively have to recreate  
the list (or write Python code) to change this?



Using Mailman 2.1.9 (Ubuntu installation).


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[Mailman-Users] List archive threading (pipermail)

[Allan Odgaard]

I copied a list’s mbox to a new server and regenerated the archive.

Unfortunately threading is not rendered satisfyingly, here are the two  
Mailman/pipermail versions:


Old: http://lists.textdrive.com/pipermail/textmate/2008-January/thread.html
New: http://lists.macromates.com/textmate/2008-January/thread.html

The new one is using wrong indent levels for letters.

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[Mailman-Users] Problems with the who command (migrating lists FAQ)

[Allan Odgaard]

I followed the FAQ¹ and sent a `who «password»` to my old list (where  
I am administrator). This scheme had the following problems:


 1. All user settings are lost (digest, no email, etc.).
 2. It does not return subscribers with concealed identity (hide).
 3. User names with accents came through mangled.

I expected #1 but not #2 (as I can see these users in the web UI with  
my admin passwords).


To solve #3 I had to set my old list to Serbian. This changed encoding  
from us-ascii to utf-8 and caused the user names to be emailed without  
the mangling.


I suggest updating the FAQ and/or improve the `who` command to return  
concealed users to the list administrator. Would also be nice if the  
mass subscribe could optionally take per user settings and `who` would  
return these.


¹ http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.4

Using Mailman 2.1.9 (Ubuntu installation).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Bls: mailman patch + postfix true virtual hosting

[Mark Sapiro]

Dony Tata wrote:
>
>- Pesan Asli 
>Dari: Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Kepada: Dony Tata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; mailman-users@python.org
>Terkirim: Senin, 16 Juni, 2008 03:16:01
>Topik: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman patch + postfix true virtual hosting
>
>Dony Tata wrote:
>
>>i use postfix + mailman 2.5 patch true virtual hosting, somebody can help me, 
>>if i try send mail to maillist, i get error (unknown user) 
>>
>>in mm_cfg.py i'm configure like this:
>>MTA = 'Postfix'
>>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['doma.ac.id', 'domb.ac.id']
>>
>>in main.cf  i'm configure like this:
>>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
>>hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
>>alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>>alias_database = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>
>
>>Have you run Mailman's bin/genaliases since putting the above settings
>>in mm_cfg.py?
>
>>Normally, Mailman's aliases and virtual maps are in Mailman's
>>data/aliases and data/virtual_mailman files. What are
>>/etc/mailman/aliases and /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman? Are they
>>symlinks to data/aliases and data/virtual_mailman? Where are the
>>aliases.db and virtual-mailman.db?
>
>-- 
>>Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
>>San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>i`m install postfix + mailman patch true virtual hosting on centos, aliases.db 
>and virtual-mailman.db locate in /etc/mailman


OK. So you have a Postfix issue. Some people on the Mailman-Users list
(including me) can help you with Postfix, but we need to understand
the problem.

So please post to the list (not just to me), at least the following:
what address you are posting to, the entries in
/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman and /etc/mailman/aliases for that address
and the /var/log/maillog entries from that post. Also verify that the
/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman.db and /etc/mailman/aliases.db files have
been updated (have the same or more recent timestamps as the
/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman and /etc/mailman/aliases files.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration Trouble

[Mark Sapiro]

Carlos Williams wrote:

>I am migrating mailman from server_old (RHEL 4) to server_new (RHEL
>5). Its basically in all sense the same machine / arch / domain / blah
>blah blah.
>
>I am using this archive as a guide:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html
>
>I copies everything over from my old server to the new as below:
>
>/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after /var/lib/mailman/lists/
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/mailman/lists
>/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private
>
>I skipped step 3 in the guide since the domain is identical and has no
>reason to change...
>
>I then copied all /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/*mbox/*mbox to the new
>server as shown below:
>
>/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private


It seems you did this twice?


>Now I am trying to understand step # 5 and I don't understand since my
>system has no user or group called list so I can chown -R list:list.
>Am I missing something? Right now since I can't execute step 5, when I
>attempt to start mailman on my Linux server, I get the following
>error:


In the message you quote above, 'list' is his MAILMAN_USER and
MAILMAN_GROUP. Yours are probably 'mailman'.


>[EMAIL PROTECTED] cwilliams]# /etc/init.d/mailman start
>Starting mailman: Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 607, in ?
>main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 426, in main
>check_for_site_list()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 326, in check_for_site_list
>sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>self.Load()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
>self.CheckVersion(dict)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 707, in CheckVersion
>self.InitVars()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 404, in InitVars
>baseclass.InitVars(self)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 96, in InitVars
>os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
>OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox'
>   [FAILED]
>
>
>Anyone know what I am missing or doing wrong?


Since your domain names don't change, you shouldn't need to do step 6.

For step 5, make sure that everything in lists/ and archives/ is your
mailman group.

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[Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration Trouble

[Carlos Williams]

I am migrating mailman from server_old (RHEL 4) to server_new (RHEL
5). Its basically in all sense the same machine / arch / domain / blah
blah blah.

I am using this archive as a guide:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html

I copies everything over from my old server to the new as below:

/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after /var/lib/mailman/lists/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/mailman/lists
/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private

I skipped step 3 in the guide since the domain is identical and has no
reason to change...

I then copied all /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/*mbox/*mbox to the new
server as shown below:

/usr/bin/rsync -ave ssh --delete-after
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/mailman/archives/private

Now I am trying to understand step # 5 and I don't understand since my
system has no user or group called list so I can chown -R list:list.
Am I missing something? Right now since I can't execute step 5, when I
attempt to start mailman on my Linux server, I get the following
error:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] cwilliams]# /etc/init.d/mailman start
Starting mailman: Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 607, in ?
main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 426, in main
check_for_site_list()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 326, in check_for_site_list
sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
self.Load()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
self.CheckVersion(dict)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 707, in CheckVersion
self.InitVars()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 404, in InitVars
baseclass.InitVars(self)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 96, in InitVars
os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox'
   [FAILED]


Anyone know what I am missing or doing wrong?
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