Re: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fellswoop?

[Mark Sapiro]

Christopher Adams wrote:

>A spammer has subscribed completely unique addresses from the same domain to
>many of the mailing lists that we host. Is there a way to unsubscribe
>everything from this domain without writing a script that will do it?


If you mean 'automatically' as opposed to just manually going through
the lists and unsubscribing addresses, no. However, there are lots of
very simple scripts. Consider

#!/bin/sh
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`; do
bin/list_members $list | grep example.com | \
bin/remove_members -f - -n -N $list
done

where example.com is the domain.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Delete and re-create a list with same name

[Mark Sapiro]

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>We have a list which transfered over from a different platform and it  
>has multiple issues that we couldn't figure out. We thinking of delete  
>the list and re-create it with the same name. Will there be any issue  
>with re-create the list with the same name? Will bin/rmlist erases all  
>settings of the list?


If you remove the list with bin/rmlist you can recreate it with the
same name. If you want, you can omit the '-a' option from rmlist and
the archives will still be available when you recreate the list.

OTOH, if you describe the issues we may be able to help resolve them.

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[Mailman-Users] unsubscribing addresses from domain in one fell swoop?

[Christopher Adams]

A spammer has subscribed completely unique addresses from the same domain to
many of the mailing lists that we host. Is there a way to unsubscribe
everything from this domain without writing a script that will do it?

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[Mailman-Users] Delete and re-create a list with same name

[Hung Phan]

Hello,

We have a list which transfered over from a different platform and it  
has multiple issues that we couldn't figure out. We thinking of delete  
the list and re-create it with the same name. Will there be any issue  
with re-create the list with the same name? Will bin/rmlist erases all  
settings of the list?


Thank you very much,

 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mailinoutgoingqueue

[Mark Sapiro]

Alan McKay wrote:

>Well, I seem to have gotten it going again with some tweaks in my
>postfix.   But that is still a mystery to me since it has worked fine
>like this for years.


It is possible that it has been marginal for some time and just some
little extra pushed it over the edge into a seriously backlogged
state. Once a backlog starts, it tends to get worse because people
don't see their posts right away and repost.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail inoutgoingqueue

[Alan McKay]

Well, I seem to have gotten it going again with some tweaks in my
postfix.   But that is still a mystery to me since it has worked fine
like this for years.

Thanks for your ears!

Most notable below is my "new" IP vs my "old" IP.  I changed ISPs a
good 3 years ago now and evidently forgot to update my postfix config.
 But as mentioned, it has worked fine since then.

< new
> old

< mynetworks = 172.30.99.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8, 206.248.138.32/32
---
> mynetworks = 172.30.99.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8, 72.1.199.184/32
244c244
< #local_recipient_maps =
---
> local_recipient_maps =
261c261
< in_flow_delay = 0
---
> #in_flow_delay = 1s
478,479c478,479
< local_destination_concurrency_limit = 2
< default_destination_concurrency_limit = 4
---
> #local_destination_concurrency_limit = 2
> #default_destination_concurrency_limit = 10
583c583
< smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,
---
> smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
631,632d630
< html_directory = no
< data_directory = /var/lib/postfix


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Re: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail inoutgoingqueue

[Mark Sapiro]

Alan McKay wrote:

>On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
>> Those messages have been delivered to the MTA. If the list has just 3
>> eligible recipients, that looks backlogged but otherwise normal. If
>> the messages haven't been delibvered, check the MTA (mailq or
>> whatever).
>
>Here it is almost 2 hours later and those messages are still not out yet!


The specific ones in the smtp log were delivered to the MTA. They're
either still queued in the MTA or they were delivered. Of course, they
were the oldest of the 332 or whatever entries in the out queue.


>> What is in Mailman's out/ and retry/ queues at this point? The out/
>> queue is almost certainly backlogged.
>
>mail...@heimat$ ls qfiles/in/ | wc -l
>   8


I asked about retry/, not in/, but unless your lists are getting mail
bombed or there is some kind of mail loop, 8 messages in the in/ queue
is a lot.


>mail...@heimat$ ls qfiles/out/ | wc -l
> 332


How old is the oldest of these?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail in outgoingqueue

[Alan McKay]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> Those messages have been delivered to the MTA. If the list has just 3
> eligible recipients, that looks backlogged but otherwise normal. If
> the messages haven't been delibvered, check the MTA (mailq or
> whatever).

Here it is almost 2 hours later and those messages are still not out yet!

I forgot to mention in all of this that regular email to and from the
system works fine.   Emails to and from this Gmail account go back and
forth in just a few seconds.

> Your MTA is checking too much during SMTP from Mailman. It shouldn't be
> doing address verification or even domain verification on remote
> recipients.

Hmmm, now, this is one thing that does change on my system.   I use
Postfix and do helo checking with a file of spammers to reject.   I
add a few entries to that file every month (maybe 3 or 4 at most).  At
present there are only 72 entries in that file.   I also do general
RBL checking which could well be also taking place from MM to Postfix.
  I'll have to go have a look.   But it has been like this for years -
at least 3  years since I last went through my Postfix config and
tweaked it.  The only change since then is spammer domains going into
my helo_access file.

> What is in Mailman's out/ and retry/ queues at this point? The out/
> queue is almost certainly backlogged.

mail...@heimat$ ls qfiles/in/ | wc -l
   8
mail...@heimat$ ls qfiles/out/ | wc -l
 332

> You could try moving all the out/ and retry/ queue entries aside and
> then removing the bad addresses from them with the script at
>  and then replacing the
> entries a few at a time.

OK, I'll give that a try.

> If the system is still slow, search the faq at
>  for "performance".

Will do.  I had been searching on a number of terms, but not that one.

Thanks for your time!


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Re: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to new server, same domain name

[Henry Hartley]

On 1/2/2010 10:04 PM, Andrew Watson wrote:

#<  #5.0.0 X-Postfix; host mysite.com[128.xxx.xxx.xxx] said: 553
5.3.0... User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO command)>
#SMTP#


I ran newaliases. Same result.
The alias hs does appear in the /etc/mail/aliases:


Look in /etc/mail/sendmail.mc for how ALIAS_FILE is defined and be sure 
it's defined as being /etc/mail/aliases. On my setup it's simply 
/etc/aliases so a file in /etc/mail would have no effect.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail in outgoingqueue

[Mark Sapiro]

Alan McKay wrote:
>
>I look in the Mailman logs dir.   Nothing really onerous that I see.
>I look in smtp and see what looks like normal processing.  e.g. one of
>my lists looks like it had a number of messages just a few minutes
>ago, but I have not seen them yet where normally I would expect to see
>them almost instantly.
>
>Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
><3f1854170912301503l375e2259k439e633f55b8b...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
>brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.055 seconds
>Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
><3f1854170912301511m39e7eb9djc157df16d753b...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
>brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
>Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
><6e40ba2b0912301514j5bbd84b5maef5a93e4c46...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
>brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds
>Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
><54a6f3cb0912301520r2dd77b03i5ebd8492b4af5...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
>brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds
>Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
> smtp to
>brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.050 seconds
>Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
><8d0a26d70912301627o1571ababscf8396703e9bb...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
>brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.052 seconds


Those messages have been delivered to the MTA. If the list has just 3
eligible recipients, that looks backlogged but otherwise normal. If
the messages haven't been delibvered, check the MTA (mailq or
whatever).


>smtp-failure seems to contain not much else other than reports of
>bogus email addresses.  I've used this as an opportunity to weed out
>most of them, but there are still messages that had been queued up for
>them so I'm not sure how long it will take those to fail delivery.
>For example if I "tail -1" (ten thousand) that file and grep out
>the 5 main bogus email addresses, I get one single line :
>
>Jan 04 12:07:50 2010 (50034) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted
>system call'), msgid:
>
>
>But i have been unable to find out what this means.   But given that I
>only see it once I am not too worried about it really.
>
>Can someone tell me where to look as to why stuff is getting backed up
>in the outgoing queue?


Your MTA is checking too much during SMTP from Mailman. It shouldn't be
doing address verification or even domain verification on remote
recipients.

What is in Mailman's out/ and retry/ queues at this point? The out/
queue is almost certainly backlogged.

You could try moving all the out/ and retry/ queue entries aside and
then removing the bad addresses from them with the script at
 and then replacing the
entries a few at a time.

If the system is still slow, search the faq at
 for "performance".

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OSXSnowLeopard.

[Mark Sapiro]

JRC Groups wrote:
>
>On 1/1/10 8:46 AM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:
>
>> JRC Groups wrote:
[...]
>> 
>> I think an umbrella list is appropriate for your requirement. Most of
>> the issues with umbrella lists have to do with people who are members
>> of more than one subordinate list receiving multiple copies of posts,
>> but you won't have people who are members of both subordinates.
>
>This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or
>the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has
>to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either
>receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to
>UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he
>received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the
>same list ? How can this be resolved  in setting up this system ?


See my reply to Geoff Shang's reply.


>>> Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its
>>> subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make
>>> things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily.
> 
>> This cannot be done in current Mailman except perhaps by overloading
>> some existing user option and either implementing a custom handler
>> (see the FAQ at ) or modifying the
>> existing MimeDel (content filtering) handler to process it.
>
>Let's not go there. Already sounds way too complicated. May I suggest this
>for future releases as a feature request ? I think this would be very
>helpful and a feature all administrators would really benefit from.


The best place to submit feature requests is to the tracker at
.


>>> Can content filtering be set-up to block or allow certain specific types of
>>> files ? Considering the answer to be yes, would it be possible to set
>>> content filtering to allow images files but place a restriction on the size
>>> and/or resolution of the files sent as attachments ?
>
>> Content filtering is set per list (the sub-lists in your case). It
>> passes or filters MIME message parts based on MIME content type, and
>> also optionally on 'extension' of attached files. Content filtering
>> per se does not have a way to deal with the size of any attached
>> message parts or the resolution of any image/* parts, but there is a
>> maximum message size (for new lists in a default install, this
>> defaults to 40KB) that applies to all messages on a per list basis
>> that will result in all messages exceeding that size being held for
>> moderator approval.
>
>Same thing here. Would it be possible to add this as a feature request ?

See above.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OSXSnowLeopard.

[Mark Sapiro]

Geoff Shang wrote:

>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, JRC Groups wrote:
>
>> This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or
>> the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has
>> to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either
>> receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to
>> UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he
>> received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the
>> same list ? How can this be resolved  in setting up this system ?
>
>Set each sublist to reply to a specific address and fill in your posting 
>address there.  This is in the General settings.


But you probably don't need to mung the reply-to, at least for the
sublists. Assuming no reply-to munging at all, the original post will
always be From: the OP and To: the umbrella. Thus reply will go to the
OP and reply-all to the OP and the umbrella, just as for a
non-umbrella case.

If you want to mung a reply-to, munging the umbrella to reply-to the
umbrella should suffice as that reply-to will pass through the
sublists unchanged.

The only place you have a problem is if the member's MUA offers list
reply based on the List-Post: header. This then may go to that
member's sublist only. The answer to this is to set
include_rfc2369_headers or at least include_list_post_header to No on
the sublists.

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[Mailman-Users] odd problem with mailman holding mail in outgoing queue

[Alan McKay]

Hey folks,

I've been running a FreeBSD / Postfix / Mailman list server for some 7
or 8 years now.   The last time I updated FreeBSD was about 3 years
ago so it is only at 6.0.   That was also the last time I updated
Postfix and Mailman until this recent spat of problems which prompted
me to upgrade both to the latest stable versions (as of yesterday).
So 2.1.13 in the case of Mailman.

Things have been running fine on this server for years with nary an
issue.   I have not made any changes recently, so it was quite
troublesome when this problem started a few days ago.   My lists
started experiencing 10 and 12 hour delays between mail coming in, and
going back out again.  If I look at message headers I can see Postfix
gets the message, then hands off to mailman, then it sits there for
hours on end, and finally gets sent out.

I should mention that this is a pretty lightly loaded system.  The
lists are basically personal hobby lists - the busiest of which gets
maybe 100 to 200 emails a day.  It is also a web server but traffic is
pretty light.  Load average is usually under 1.

I spent a good 12 to 14 hours yesterday looking into this - went
through some of the archives for this list, as well as the FAQ wiki.
Found a few similar problems but nothing just the same.

I look in the Mailman logs dir.   Nothing really onerous that I see.
I look in smtp and see what looks like normal processing.  e.g. one of
my lists looks like it had a number of messages just a few minutes
ago, but I have not seen them yet where normally I would expect to see
them almost instantly.

Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
<3f1854170912301503l375e2259k439e633f55b8b...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.055 seconds
Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
<3f1854170912301511m39e7eb9djc157df16d753b...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
<6e40ba2b0912301514j5bbd84b5maef5a93e4c46...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds
Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
<54a6f3cb0912301520r2dd77b03i5ebd8492b4af5...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds
Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
 smtp to
brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.050 seconds
Jan 04 12:08:18 2010 (85805)
<8d0a26d70912301627o1571ababscf8396703e9bb...@mail.gmail.com> smtp to
brewers for 3 recips, completed in 0.052 seconds

smtp-failure seems to contain not much else other than reports of
bogus email addresses.  I've used this as an opportunity to weed out
most of them, but there are still messages that had been queued up for
them so I'm not sure how long it will take those to fail delivery.
For example if I "tail -1" (ten thousand) that file and grep out
the 5 main bogus email addresses, I get one single line :

Jan 04 12:07:50 2010 (50034) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted
system call'), msgid:


But i have been unable to find out what this means.   But given that I
only see it once I am not too worried about it really.

Can someone tell me where to look as to why stuff is getting backed up
in the outgoing queue?



-- 
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 - Michael Pollan, author of "In Defense of Food"
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS XSnowLeopard.

[Geoff Shang]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, JRC Groups wrote:


This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or
the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has
to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either
receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to
UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he
received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the
same list ? How can this be resolved  in setting up this system ?


Set each sublist to reply to a specific address and fill in your posting 
address there.  This is in the General settings.


Cheers,
Geoff.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:15:15AM +0200, Geoff Shang wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote:
> >It is interesting how that site talks about an email to web forum
> >bridge but they discuss it in a mailing list only. If the bridge works
> >then I appear to have missed where the testy web forum address is.
> 
> Presumably the forum is the same as the mailing list.

 states that there's
an IRC channel. That may be useful for joomla queries.

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  the brothers, but I figure that's just a technicality.'' (`MixerMan')
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS XSnowLeopard.

[JRC Groups]

Hi, Mark.


On 1/1/10 8:46 AM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:

> JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>> On 12/30/09 6:47 AM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:
>> 
>>> There are also command-line tools for adding members and syncing
>>> membership with a flat file.
>> 
>> When you mention flat file are you referring to a plain text file ? If so,
>> what specific format (or encoding) should be used for this file ? How
>> exactly should it be formatted ?
> 
> 
> Yes, a plain text file with one address per line. Addresses can be
> formatted in any standard (RFC 2822 compliant) way. See the FAQ at
>  for some examples.

Thanks. I will definitely look into this as it seems to be the perfect
solution for my case and a way to make it simple to manage subscriptions.
 
>>> I'm not sure I understand the question. You can set up two lists with
>>> two different names. Use Mailman's Content Filtering to specify what
>>> will be accepted and what will be filtered out. If you mean you want
>>> posts to be sent to one address and some people to receive attachments
>>> and some not, you can use an umbrella list for this (search the FAQ at
>>>  for "umbrella")
>> 
>> The idea is to have a way to control or manage attachments on a per user
>> base. I've experienced this is the past with mailings lists I have
>> subscribed. Many subscribers are on fast broadband these days and like to
>> receive images and other attachments along with their messages. On the other
>> hand there are those who are on slow connections and even dial-up. These
>> don't like to receive attachments as they slow things down and take a while
>> to download specially when the list is a busy one with numerous posts per
>> day. My idea was to set-up two separate lists. Posts would be sent to one
>> single address and then forwarded to two lists - one with and one without
>> attachments. Subscribers would have the option to subscribe to one list or
>> the other depending on whether they chose to receive attachments.
>> 
>> According to what you stated above it seems there is a fairly simpler way to
>> accomplishing this task. I've looked at the pages describing the "umbrella"
>> list concept. It is certainly an option to keep in mind but I would prefer
>> another simpler solution as I noticed the notes about possible problems and
>> workarounds.
> 
> 
> I think an umbrella list is appropriate for your requirement. Most of
> the issues with umbrella lists have to do with people who are members
> of more than one subordinate list receiving multiple copies of posts,
> but you won't have people who are members of both subordinates.

This is indeed the case. All subscribers will either belong to one list or
the other. Never both. One of the issues I noticed when reading the post has
to do with replies from subscribers. Considering subscribers are either
receiving mail from Sublist1 or Sublist2 but post are mailed to
UmbrellaList1 what happens when a subscriber replies to a post ? Since he
received it from (let's say) Sublist1 wouldn't the reply be sent back to the
same list ? How can this be resolved  in setting up this system ?
 
>> Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its
>> subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make
>> things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily.
 
> This cannot be done in current Mailman except perhaps by overloading
> some existing user option and either implementing a custom handler
> (see the FAQ at ) or modifying the
> existing MimeDel (content filtering) handler to process it.

Let's not go there. Already sounds way too complicated. May I suggest this
for future releases as a feature request ? I think this would be very
helpful and a feature all administrators would really benefit from.
 
>> Can content filtering be set-up to block or allow certain specific types of
>> files ? Considering the answer to be yes, would it be possible to set
>> content filtering to allow images files but place a restriction on the size
>> and/or resolution of the files sent as attachments ?

> Content filtering is set per list (the sub-lists in your case). It
> passes or filters MIME message parts based on MIME content type, and
> also optionally on 'extension' of attached files. Content filtering
> per se does not have a way to deal with the size of any attached
> message parts or the resolution of any image/* parts, but there is a
> maximum message size (for new lists in a default install, this
> defaults to 40KB) that applies to all messages on a per list basis
> that will result in all messages exceeding that size being held for
> moderator approval.

Same thing here. Would it be possible to add this as a feature request ? I
think it would really beneficial to have limits set-up per list and also
some control over the way individual subscribers receive their posts. Some
might like attachments while others may prefer

Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS X Snow Leopard.

[JRC Groups]

Hi, Mark.


Thanks for your really helpful replies to my posts.


On 1/1/10 12:43 PM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:

> Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>> 
>> It might be easier to achieve with user education. Many 'modern' mail
>> clients can be configured to automatically (or not) download attachments and
>> whether (or not) to display images.  I know Thunderbird does this, and IIRC
>> outlook will, too.
> 
> 
> If you really mean 'attachments' and not just things like remote images
> linked from HTML message parts, this would require IMAP access to the
> mail server. POP3 protocol only has the TOP command for retrieving
> partial messages and all it can do is retrieve the headers and the
> first n body lines (body in the RFC 822 sense where the body includes
> all the MIME headers, boundaries, etc.). Further, most POP clients
> just retrieve all new messages on the server in their entirety when
> asked to 'check mail'.
> 
> And even with IMAP, it seems that at least Thunderbird with it's new
> 3.0 'Synchronize IMAP Messages' feature is moving towards
> unconditionally downloading all messages in their entirety.

I just read your post above after replying to Carl's and it became clear
that this is not the right approach for my case.

Considering this I will try some of the other solutions you have suggested
as I want to make this a simple and straightforward experience for my
subscribers.

Thanks,


Joe


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS X SnowLeopard.

[JRC Groups]

Hi, Carl.


Thanks for your reply and helpful suggestion.


On 1/1/10 11:49 AM, "Carl Zwanzig"  wrote:

> JRC Groups wrote:
> 
>> Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its
>> subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make
>> things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily.
> 
> It might be easier to achieve with user education. Many 'modern' mail
> clients can be configured to automatically (or not) download attachments and
> whether (or not) to display images.  I know Thunderbird does this, and IIRC
> outlook will, too.  And, of course, web mail generally doesn't download
> anything (except images, that's usually configurable) until someone clicks
> on the link.
> 
> z!


The problem I have with this approach is the fact that I depend on users to
do this. Over the years I've noticed that the target audience for mailing
lists can basically be divided into two groups: tech-inclined subscribers
and non-tech friendly folks.

The lists I am creating are unfortunately for the second group. This is my
target audience and I would benefit from making it as simple as I can for
them.

I will keep your suggestion in mind and try it in case I am not able to
implement another solution.

Thanks again,


Joe


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

[Geoff Shang]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote:


They say...

"1. Install the component via standard install procedures."

What are "standard install procedures" ? For windows users that
is simply double clicking an .exe file. What does that mean when
translated to unix ? If it is as simple as FTPing files then why not
say so ? Then tell people where they need to go.


I expect that in this case, "standard install procedures" means standard 
install procedures for Joomla.  Depending on how they handle this sort of 
thing, it may or may not require shell access.  I'm guessing not, as some 
hosted sites wouldn't provide such access, but I don't know for sure.



They then say "Point your admin browser to Components..." What's an
admin browser ? Is that any different than a web browser ? Or are they
talking about a telnet connection ?


I'm guessing they're saying "Log in as admin and go to Components".


It is interesting how that site talks about an email to web forum
bridge but they discuss it in a mailing list only. If the bridge works
then I appear to have missed where the testy web forum address is.


Presumably the forum is the same as the mailing list.

Geoff.

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