Re: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent

[Christopher Adams]

I see the message in the Mailman smtp log going to the list and the two
list owners. I also see the message directed to the list owner address in
the MTA logs. However, the message is not actually being delivered to the
list owner via the alias. I have discovered that, using owner addresses
outside of our subnet work for getting confirmation approvals. However,
they don't for addresses inside our subnet. That is strange because the
owner addresses are deliverable and receive mail through list traffic via
Mailman.


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> >>
> >> Are you saying that you see a 'held subscription' message in Mailman's
> >> 'vette' log?
> >>
> >
> >Yes, it shows in the vette.log as being held.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Do the held subscriptions appear in the web admindb interface?
> >>
> >>
> >> >The list has the *admin_immed_notify* set to 'yes'. The cron
> >> /cron/checkdbs
> >> >runs every morning at 8 am.
> >>
> >>
> >> Does the held subscription appear in the daily summary of moderator
> >> requests?
> >>
> >
> >Yes, it is sent successfully every morning at 8 am. Until I get this
> fixed,
> >I have increased this to every 2 hrs.
>
>
> The notice to the owner(s)/moderator(s) is sent by the same process
> immediately following writing the vette log entry contingent only on
> admin_immed_notify being True.
>
> The message is sent From: and To: the listname-owner address with
> envelope from the listname-bounces address.
>
> Check Mailman's smtp log for entries with the same or perhaps + 1 or 2
> seconds time stamp as the vette log entry. There should be a send for
> 1 recip for the list followed immediately by a send for a number of
> recips = to the number of owner(s)/moderator(s). Do you see these? How
> about in the MTA logs?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent

[Mark Sapiro]

On 4/1/2013 8:22 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> I see the message in the Mailman smtp log going to the list and the two
> list owners. I also see the message directed to the list owner address
> in the MTA logs. However, the message is not actually being delivered to
> the list owner via the alias. I have discovered that, using owner
> addresses outside of our subnet work for getting confirmation approvals.
> However, they don't for addresses inside our subnet.


This is what I think I understand from the above.

1) The notice is sent as expected by Mailman to LISTNAME-owner@...
2) The message to LISTNAME-owner@... is received by Mailman and resent
by Mailman to all the owner and moderator addresses.
3) Those owner and moderator addresses outside your local subnet receive
the notice, but those inside your local subnet do not.
4) Presumably, the same is true for any mail sent to the
LISTNAME-owner@... address, i.e., the non-delivery issue does not depend
on the mail to LISTNAME-owner@... having been generated by Mailman itself.

Is this understanding correct?

Do the 'inside' owner/moderator addresses have a fully qualified domain
name?


> That is strange
> because the owner addresses are deliverable and receive mail through
> list traffic via Mailman.


Owners and moderators do not receive list posts. Only members receive
list posts. There is no connection within Mailman between an
owner/moderator address and a list member address which may be the same.
See .

In any case, if my understanding above is correct, and if the
owner/moderator 'inside' addresses are fully qualified, this is an MTA
issue, not a Mailman issue.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Documenting a list-specific change

[Drew Tenenholz]

All --

I hope this is simple.  I changed the preferred_language for a list via the 
admin web interface last week, and some downstream processes are no longer 
working.  Before I blame the change in the list for the failure, I need to know 
rather precisely when I made that change (i.e. Monday vs. Thursday).  

Is there a  simple way to figure this out?

-- Drew Tenenholz
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Documenting a list-specific change

[Mark Sapiro]

Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>
>I hope this is simple.  I changed the preferred_language for a list via the 
>admin web interface last week, and some downstream processes are no longer 
>working.  Before I blame the change in the list for the failure, I need to 
>know rather precisely when I made that change (i.e. Monday vs. Thursday).  
>
>Is there a  simple way to figure this out?


Look in the web server logs for an http POST to the list's
admin/LISTNAME/language page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Documenting a list-specific change

[Drew Tenenholz]

Mark --

Perfect!  Thanks.

P.S.  Mailman is not to blame in this case, which means that I can keep the 
settings change and we can look alsewhere for the problem.

At 11:56 AM -0700 4/1/13, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>>
>>I hope this is simple.  I changed the preferred_language for a list via the 
>>admin web interface last week, and some downstream processes are no longer 
>>working.  Before I blame the change in the list for the failure, I need to 
>>know rather precisely when I made that change (i.e. Monday vs. Thursday). 
>>
>>Is there a  simple way to figure this out?
>
>
>Look in the web server logs for an http POST to the list's
>admin/LISTNAME/language page.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion Server Issue after migration from Lion

[Allan Herman]

Actually, I think this makes sense now. 

Unless the sender is authenticated, I reject messages at the handshake if the 
addressee is not a local recipient. Local recipients include aliases. 

I think the next directive is the key:

local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps

My suspicion is that the addressee is evaluated in the above order (first, 
actual accounts, then aliases). In this flukey instance, because "mailman" is 
an actual system account, it is evaluated as such before postfix evaluates it 
as an alias to a listserver account. It then rejects it because it is a system 
account rather than a user account (uid falls below minimum allowed: 78 < 501). 
This is why mailman-request@... works, but not mailman@...

Accordingly, I don't think anything is actually wrong that warrants further 
digging. I only use the "mailman" list, which was set up by default, for 
testing. Any reason I can't delete it and make a "testing" list?

Thanks.

On 03-29-2013, at 7:01 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Allan Herman wrote:
> 
>> Here are the logs.
>> 
>> Mar 29 18:14:08 x.yy.ca postfix/postscreen[2793]: PASS NEW 
>> [98.136.217.31]:34253
>> Mar 29 18:14:08 x.yy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: connect from 
>> nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]
>> Mar 29 18:14:09 x.yy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: sacl_check: 
>> mbr_user_name_to_uuid(mail...@yy.ca) failed: No such file or directory
>> Mar 29 18:14:09 x.yy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: warning: recipient 
>> rejected  uid falls below minimum allowed: 78 < 501
>> Mar 29 18:14:09 x.yy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT 
>> from nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]: 550 5.1.1 
>> : Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local 
>> recipient table; from= to= proto=SMTP 
>> helo=
>> Mar 29 18:14:09 x.yy.ca postfix/smtpd[2798]: disconnect from 
>> nm19-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com[98.136.217.31]
>> 
>> Either there is no alias for mailman or postfix is identifying mailman with 
>> the user "mailman" before processing aliases. I though postfix precesses 
>> aliases first, however.
> 
> 
> Clearly, Postfix is doing something to validate users way before alias
> processing. Alias processing does not occur until the message is
> accepted and queued and ready to be delivered by the 'local' transport.
> 
> What does 'postconf -n' show? In particular, what's
> smtpd_recipient_restrictions?
> 
> Note that  gets a ton of
> Mac OS X Lion hits, but a cursory look didn't show much in the way of
> solutions.
> 
> Whereas
>  finds
> nothing. Is this some Apple specific Postfix check?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent

[Christopher Adams]

I did not mean to imply that there was a connection between the owners and
list posts, just that Mailman list traffic is flowing without problems.

Your assumptions 1-3 are correct. As for #4, if I understand you correctly,
I can send mail outside of Mailman to the listname-owner address and it
delivers correcty regardless of whether the list owners are inside the
local subnet. The problem only seems to occur when sending through the
Mailman server and Postfix. I have been considering that Postfix is the
possible problem, but since list traffic is working fine, I don't know
exactly what to address with the MTA.

The 'inside' addresses are fully qualified.

It is also possible that the central server that mail is routed through is
not looking kindly on the admin notifications, so I will look in to that as
well as problems with Postfix.

Thank you for taking time to reply.


On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 4/1/2013 8:22 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> > I see the message in the Mailman smtp log going to the list and the two
> > list owners. I also see the message directed to the list owner address
> > in the MTA logs. However, the message is not actually being delivered to
> > the list owner via the alias. I have discovered that, using owner
> > addresses outside of our subnet work for getting confirmation approvals.
> > However, they don't for addresses inside our subnet.
>
>
> This is what I think I understand from the above.
>
> 1) The notice is sent as expected by Mailman to LISTNAME-owner@...
> 2) The message to LISTNAME-owner@... is received by Mailman and resent
> by Mailman to all the owner and moderator addresses.
> 3) Those owner and moderator addresses outside your local subnet receive
> the notice, but those inside your local subnet do not.
> 4) Presumably, the same is true for any mail sent to the
> LISTNAME-owner@... address, i.e., the non-delivery issue does not depend
> on the mail to LISTNAME-owner@... having been generated by Mailman itself.
>
> Is this understanding correct?
>
> Do the 'inside' owner/moderator addresses have a fully qualified domain
> name?
>
>
> > That is strange
> > because the owner addresses are deliverable and receive mail through
> > list traffic via Mailman.
>
>
> Owners and moderators do not receive list posts. Only members receive
> list posts. There is no connection within Mailman between an
> owner/moderator address and a list member address which may be the same.
> See .
>
> In any case, if my understanding above is correct, and if the
> owner/moderator 'inside' addresses are fully qualified, this is an MTA
> issue, not a Mailman issue.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion Server Issue after migration fromLion

[Mark Sapiro]

Allan Herman wrote:
>
>Accordingly, I don't think anything is actually wrong that warrants further 
>digging. I only use the "mailman" list, which was set up by default, for 
>testing. Any reason I can't delete it and make a "testing" list?


You can't delete it for a few reasons, the most important of which is
mailmanctl will refuse to run the qrunners if it isn't there. Also,
there will be issues with cron/mailpasswds

Further, the site list address is exposed on the web admin and listinfo
overview pages.

But, its name doesn't have to be 'mailman'. You can call it anything
you want by putting, e.g.,

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'testing'

in mm_cfg.py, however 'testing' probably isn't the best name as monthly
reminders are From: the -owner of this list and its posting address is
exposed on the web admin and listinfo overview pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Admin approval messages not being sent

[Mark Sapiro]

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I can send mail outside of Mailman to the listname-owner address and it
>delivers correcty regardless of whether the list owners are inside the
>local subnet. The problem only seems to occur when sending through the
>Mailman server and Postfix.


When you send mail originating outside Mailman to the listname-owner
address it is ultimately delivered to Postfix from Mailman for the
owner/moderator recipients in exactly the same way as a Mailman
generated notice.

There are a few differences in the headers of the message ultimately
sent to the owner/moderator recipients and of course, the bodies are
different (but you could test manually sending a copy of an actual
notice).

The major difference is the From: header which in the cast of the
message you send has hour address and in the case of the notice has
the listname-owner address. The notice also has headers like

Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: listn...@example.com
X-Mailman-Version: ...
List-Id: ...
X-List-Administrivia: yes

that probably aren't in the manually generated message.

Perhaps the issue is that there is spam filtering in the local network
that discards Precedence: bulk messages destined for local recipients.


>It is also possible that the central server that mail is routed through is
>not looking kindly on the admin notifications, so I will look in to that as
>well as problems with Postfix.


Yes, particularly the Precedence: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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