[Mailman-Users] Search by Message-ID, preserving Cc for direct recipients

[Jed Brown]

I would like to be able to search the archives of a mailman list using
the Message-ID, ideally using a stable URL like

  http://mid.gmane.org/${message_id}
  http://mail-archive.com/search?l=mid&q=${message_id}

but preferably on our own host as we're not currently mirrored and would
rather link to our own archives when referencing on old discussion on
the list.  Our current archives (e.g., [1]) are searched using htdig,
but it doesn't seem to support query by Message-ID.  Your wiki page [2]
also suggests Swish, MnoGoSearch, and Namazu.  Can any of these search
by Message-ID, or is our best bet to get indexed by mail-archive.com and
direct people there?

Second question: Why are direct recipients dropped from the Cc header of
the copy sent via the list?  This seems partially addressed in the
archives [3], but I think it's important for high-volume lists when
people filter conversations based on whether they are a direct
recipient.  Is there an option somewhere to keep Cc headers intact
without changing other behavior?

[1] http://lists.mcs.anl.gov/pipermail/petsc-dev/
[2] http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/How+do+I+make+the+archives+searchable
[3] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2006-May/018777.html
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Root as the sender

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/14/2013 06:23 AM, Kamlesh Rao wrote:
> 
> We want to be able to have root user send out emails to any distribution 
> list..
> 
> Currently we have an instance of mailman were this works. I checked and 
> noticed that root is not added to the membership list. So not sure were in 
> the config you can set this to.


What exactly works? Local mail originating from root or any mail that
happens to spoof r...@example.com in the From: header.

If the latter, just add r...@example.com to Privacy options... -> Sender
filters -> accept_these_nonmembers.

If the former, you must have some local mods to support this.


Note: Please don't hijack existing threads by replying to an unrelated
post. If starting a new topic, post an original message to
mailman-users@python.org, don't reply to another message.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)

[Christopher Adams]

Thank you, Mark.

SMTPHOST = 'localhost' in Defaults.py

The out/ queue is now clear and processing mail. I'll see how it goes.
Thanks, again.

On another note, what are thoughts about utilizing SpamAssasin or other
spam software with Postfix and Mailman. It seems that a lot of the traffic
that is going through the Mailman server is spam, quite a bit which is
flagged and blocked by using RBLS in  postfix smptd_recipient_restrictions.
I am seeing upwards to 8,000 messages blocked every day. Is there a more
efficient way to manage this without making it a full time job? :>)


On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 05/14/2013 09:28 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> >
> > Then, this morning, I read another post about dns lookups in Postfix
> main.cf.
> > A poster said that he modifed his smtpd_recipient_restrictions  and put
> > permit_mynetworks at the top. So, I followed this and restarted Postfix.
> >
> > I immediately saw mail flowing and the out/q queue emptied and mail began
> > to come in. I'm not sure exactly why it had that affect.
>
>
> So, Mailman is delivering via the local Postfix and not directly to the
> remote server.
>
> Postfix was doing DNS lookups on the sending domain for all messages
> which slowed it way down. You avoided this by the change you made.
>
>
> > So, I have a final question. Should I move the .pck and .bak (renamed to
> > .pck) files back to the out/ queue. If so, should I stop mailman before
> > doing this.
>
>
> You can move the .pck files back without stopping/starting Mailman.
>
> If you move the .bak files without renaming them, they won't be
> processed until you restart Mailman. If you rename them to .pck, they
> will be processed along with the others without a restart.
>
> BUT, the messages in the .bak files have been 'partially' processed and
> possibly delivered to some recipients. You can examine the .bak files
> with bin/dumpdb -p to see what they contain and decide if you want to
> reprocess them.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>



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Re: [Mailman-Users] approval before changing mail address

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/14/2013 09:23 AM, Michael Probst wrote:
> 
> In the first step we approve only subscriptions with email accounts from
> a member company. Someone with a subscription can then later on change
> his mail address to one of another company that might not be a member
> company of our organization. We would like to approve such changes or
> disable this option.


I think it would require significant code changes to apply
subscribe_policy to address changes.

You can easily make a site specific version of the options.html template
per the FAQ at  with the address change
portion removed.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/14/2013 09:28 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> Then, this morning, I read another post about dns lookups in Postfix main.cf.
> A poster said that he modifed his smtpd_recipient_restrictions  and put
> permit_mynetworks at the top. So, I followed this and restarted Postfix.
> 
> I immediately saw mail flowing and the out/q queue emptied and mail began
> to come in. I'm not sure exactly why it had that affect.


So, Mailman is delivering via the local Postfix and not directly to the
remote server.

Postfix was doing DNS lookups on the sending domain for all messages
which slowed it way down. You avoided this by the change you made.


> So, I have a final question. Should I move the .pck and .bak (renamed to
> .pck) files back to the out/ queue. If so, should I stop mailman before
> doing this.


You can move the .pck files back without stopping/starting Mailman.

If you move the .bak files without renaming them, they won't be
processed until you restart Mailman. If you rename them to .pck, they
will be processed along with the others without a restart.

BUT, the messages in the .bak files have been 'partially' processed and
possibly delivered to some recipients. You can examine the .bak files
with bin/dumpdb -p to see what they contain and decide if you want to
reprocess them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/14/2013 08:26 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> There currently are about 954 files in the out/ queue and seemingly always
> growing. Is that significant?


Your out/ queue is hopelessly backlogged. I'm not sure why. See the post
at
.

I am guessing that Mailman is delivering directly to the remote server
(SMTPHOST = 'remote.server' in mm_cfg.py) and that the remote server is
not keeping up with peak rates causing the queue to become backlogged.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)

[Christopher Adams]

Mark, I was reading some previous posts about Mailman and qfiles. Late
yesterday, I found a couple of *.bak files in the out/ queue, so I moved
all the *.bak and *.pck files to another directory. I restarted Mailman.
Mail was not still not being delivered in a timely way.

Then, this morning, I read another post about dns lookups in Postfix main.cf.
A poster said that he modifed his smtpd_recipient_restrictions  and put
permit_mynetworks at the top. So, I followed this and restarted Postfix.

I immediately saw mail flowing and the out/q queue emptied and mail began
to come in. I'm not sure exactly why it had that affect.

So, I have a final question. Should I move the .pck and .bak (renamed to
.pck) files back to the out/ queue. If so, should I stop mailman before
doing this.

BTW - The posts that I read above involved you. so thanks for the
"indirect" assistance.




On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:

> Thank you for your reply.
>
> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1) in Defaults.py
>
> Mesages are being archived almost immediately. There is nothing in the in/
> queue.
>
> There currently are about 954 files in the out/ queue and seemingly always
> growing. Is that significant?
>
> A message sent yesterday at 12:30 was received by Mailman within seconds.
> It delivered at 3:30. The smtp.log for that message shows:
>
> May 13 15:32:36 2013 (26531)
> <0b03fe68e0e760478d413f045b39a02838032...@oslexchange.my.mail.server.local>
> smtp to test7 for 2 recips, completed in 0.020 seconds
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
>
>> On 05/13/2013 08:39 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
>> >  Postfix sends the list message it to the remote server, which shows
>> that
>> > it was accepted by the Mailman server.
>>
>>
>> We are not communicating here. The above makes no sense to me. I think
>> the sequence is:
>>
>>  - List mail arrives at the local Postfix.
>>  - Postfix delivers to the local Mailman.
>>  - Mailman delivers - here I don't know if to the local Postfix for
>> relay to the remote server or directly to the remote server. The
>> mm_cfg.py setting for SMTPHOST determines this. The Default is localhost
>> meaning relay via the local Postfix.
>>
>>
>> > The Mailman server has logs that
>> > show that the message was directed to the command 'post' to list
>> 'test7'.
>> > However, nothing happens after that for 2-7 hours. Once it actually
>> sends
>> > to the list, there are smpt.log entries that show it going to 'x
>> recipients'
>>
>>
>> OK, so here you are saying that the delay is definitely in Mailman. I.e.
>> Postfix delivers to the mailman mail wrapper which presumably
>> immediately queues the message in Mailman's in/ queue, and it's a long
>> time later that Mailman logs the delivery.
>>
>> What is the processing time in the smtp log entry. Is it a few seconds
>> or less or hours?
>>
>> I'm guessing that during this time IncomingRunner or OutgoingRunner or
>> both are asleep. Do you have a setting in mm_cfg.py for
>> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME? The default in Defaults.py is (or should be)
>>
>> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1)
>>
>> If you have set this to a few hours, it would explain the behavior you
>> are seeing. If not, when does the post get archived? Is that delayed too?
>>
>> Also, messages in the in/ queue are processed by IncomingRunner and then
>> queued in the archive/ queue for ArchRunner and the out/ queue for
>> OutgoingRunner. You could look and see if messages move from the in/
>> queue quickly or not.
>>
>> Note that if you have set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME to say 4 hours, messages
>> can sit in the in/ queue for an average of 2 and up to 4 hours before
>> moving to the out/ queue where they may wait up to an additional 4 hours
>> before being sent.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Christopher Adams
> adam...@gmail.com
>



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 16

[Michael Probst]

Thanks for your reply.

The issue is that only employees of member companies shall be able to
join any of the mailing lists.

In the first step we approve only subscriptions with email accounts from
a member company. Someone with a subscription can then later on change
his mail address to one of another company that might not be a member
company of our organization. We would like to approve such changes or
disable this option.


Am 14.05.2013 17:26, schrieb mailman-users-requ...@python.org:
> On 5/13/13 11:06 AM, Michael Probst wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > I hope this is the right mailing list to ask this kind of questions.
>> >
>> > We run mailing lists with mailman for an organization with multiple
>> > groups and
>> > each group has its own mailing list(s). Our policy requires that
>> > subscriptions are
>> > approved by a moderator.
>> >
>> > However, we got requests from people to change their email address
>> > for all their subscriptions. We found that people can do so themselves
>> > via the web interface, but we could not find out how to let a moderator
>> > approve this change.
>> >
>> > Required sequence:
>> >
>> > * user changes his email address for all his subscriptions (works)
>> > * owner of new email address confirms (works)
>> > * moderator approves (not found)
>> >
>> > Is this possible with mailman and if yes what version of mailman is
>> > required?
>> >
>> > If not is there any way to remove this option from the member page, so
>> > they can still unsubscribe,
>> > watch the archive, etc.?
>> >
>> > Can a list adminstrator change the mail address of a user for all of his
>> > subscriptions at once?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> >
>> > Michael
>> >
> As to a list administrator changing the mail address of a user for all
> of his subscriptions, that isn't allowed as a list administrator can
> only change things relating to "his" list, so the "all subscriptions"
> option is blocked for people logging in with list administrator access.
> 
> As to approving change of address requests, are you sure this is really
> needed? Normally subscription approval is used to allow the list to only
> go to "approved" people, so when the subscription comes in, you approve
> the PERSON to receive the list, if they then chose to receive the list
> at a different address, that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> -- Richard Damon


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=
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Tel: +49 89 / 32399 338   Floriansmuehlstrasse  60
Fax: +49 89 / 32399 415   80939 Munich
e-mail  : mpro...@irt.de  Germany
Internet: www.irt.de

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=
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Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)

[Christopher Adams]

Thank you for your reply.

QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1) in Defaults.py

Mesages are being archived almost immediately. There is nothing in the in/
queue.

There currently are about 954 files in the out/ queue and seemingly always
growing. Is that significant?

A message sent yesterday at 12:30 was received by Mailman within seconds.
It delivered at 3:30. The smtp.log for that message shows:

May 13 15:32:36 2013 (26531)
<0b03fe68e0e760478d413f045b39a02838032...@oslexchange.my.mail.server.local>
smtp to test7 for 2 recips, completed in 0.020 seconds


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 05/13/2013 08:39 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
> >  Postfix sends the list message it to the remote server, which shows that
> > it was accepted by the Mailman server.
>
>
> We are not communicating here. The above makes no sense to me. I think
> the sequence is:
>
>  - List mail arrives at the local Postfix.
>  - Postfix delivers to the local Mailman.
>  - Mailman delivers - here I don't know if to the local Postfix for
> relay to the remote server or directly to the remote server. The
> mm_cfg.py setting for SMTPHOST determines this. The Default is localhost
> meaning relay via the local Postfix.
>
>
> > The Mailman server has logs that
> > show that the message was directed to the command 'post' to list 'test7'.
> > However, nothing happens after that for 2-7 hours. Once it actually sends
> > to the list, there are smpt.log entries that show it going to 'x
> recipients'
>
>
> OK, so here you are saying that the delay is definitely in Mailman. I.e.
> Postfix delivers to the mailman mail wrapper which presumably
> immediately queues the message in Mailman's in/ queue, and it's a long
> time later that Mailman logs the delivery.
>
> What is the processing time in the smtp log entry. Is it a few seconds
> or less or hours?
>
> I'm guessing that during this time IncomingRunner or OutgoingRunner or
> both are asleep. Do you have a setting in mm_cfg.py for
> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME? The default in Defaults.py is (or should be)
>
> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1)
>
> If you have set this to a few hours, it would explain the behavior you
> are seeing. If not, when does the post get archived? Is that delayed too?
>
> Also, messages in the in/ queue are processed by IncomingRunner and then
> queued in the archive/ queue for ArchRunner and the out/ queue for
> OutgoingRunner. You could look and see if messages move from the in/
> queue quickly or not.
>
> Note that if you have set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME to say 4 hours, messages
> can sit in the in/ queue for an average of 2 and up to 4 hours before
> moving to the out/ queue where they may wait up to an additional 4 hours
> before being sent.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
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adam...@gmail.com
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Re: [Mailman-Users] 403 error after prune_arch

[Jan Krohn]

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Mai 2013 06:13
An: Jan Krohn
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] 403 error after prune_arch

On 05/13/2013 10:07 AM, Jan Krohn wrote:
>> I'm still new to permissions, ownership etc. but I have a problem.

> Which is almost certainly permissions related. What does your web server
error log say?

Not checked, issue solved (see below).

>> I installed and executed prune_arch
>> http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/prune_arch
>> Is this the up to date version?

> If you got it any time after Sept 27, 2012, yes it is.

I got it on Monday, so it's good...

>> However, after execution, I'm getting a 403 error on the archive pages.
>> I've already checked ownership of the public folders, and confirmed 
>> it's mailman:mailman as it should be (this was a problem before from 
>> migrated lists).

> archives/public should contain only symlinks to corresponding things in
archives/private.

That's the case.

> Have you tried running bin/check_perms?

Just tried:

Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
 This could allow other users on your system to read private
archives.
 If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
 installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found

> Note that archives/private MUST be o+x or owned by the web server user.

Checked, this is the case (drwxrws--x)

> Note that bin/prune_arch only creates a new
archives/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox file and invokes bin/arch to rebuild
the HTML archive, but archives/private should be group mailman and SETGID so
everything should be created with group mailman, and be world readable.

That's it. Some directories archives/private/LIST were owned by
root.mailman. I changed to mailman.mailman, and the archives are back (and
pruned properly)!

Thanks for your help!

Jan

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[Mailman-Users] Root as the sender

[Kamlesh Rao]

We want to be able to have root user send out emails to any distribution list..

Currently we have an instance of mailman were this works. I checked and noticed 
that root is not added to the membership list. So not sure were in the config 
you can set this to.

In the new instance of mailman that I set up, when I send out mail to 
distribution list I see these get queued but no mails are received by the 
members of the distribution list..

Any help is much appreciated..

Richard Damon  wrote:
On 5/13/13 11:06 AM, Michael Probst wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I hope this is the right mailing list to ask this kind of questions.
>
> We run mailing lists with mailman for an organization with multiple
> groups and
> each group has its own mailing list(s). Our policy requires that
> subscriptions are
> approved by a moderator.
>
> However, we got requests from people to change their email address
> for all their subscriptions. We found that people can do so themselves
> via the web interface, but we could not find out how to let a moderator
> approve this change.
>
> Required sequence:
>
> * user changes his email address for all his subscriptions (works)
> * owner of new email address confirms (works)
> * moderator approves (not found)
>
> Is this possible with mailman and if yes what version of mailman is
> required?
>
> If not is there any way to remove this option from the member page, so
> they can still unsubscribe,
> watch the archive, etc.?
>
> Can a list adminstrator change the mail address of a user for all of his
> subscriptions at once?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael
>

As to a list administrator changing the mail address of a user for all
of his subscriptions, that isn't allowed as a list administrator can
only change things relating to "his" list, so the "all subscriptions"
option is blocked for people logging in with list administrator access.

As to approving change of address requests, are you sure this is really
needed? Normally subscription approval is used to allow the list to only
go to "approved" people, so when the subscription comes in, you approve
the PERSON to receive the list, if they then chose to receive the list
at a different address, that shouldn't be an issue.

--
Richard Damon

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Re: [Mailman-Users] approval before changing mail address

[Richard Damon]

On 5/13/13 11:06 AM, Michael Probst wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I hope this is the right mailing list to ask this kind of questions.
>
> We run mailing lists with mailman for an organization with multiple
> groups and
> each group has its own mailing list(s). Our policy requires that
> subscriptions are
> approved by a moderator.
>
> However, we got requests from people to change their email address
> for all their subscriptions. We found that people can do so themselves
> via the web interface, but we could not find out how to let a moderator
> approve this change.
>
> Required sequence:
>
> * user changes his email address for all his subscriptions (works)
> * owner of new email address confirms (works)
> * moderator approves (not found)
>
> Is this possible with mailman and if yes what version of mailman is
> required?
>
> If not is there any way to remove this option from the member page, so
> they can still unsubscribe,
> watch the archive, etc.?
>
> Can a list adminstrator change the mail address of a user for all of his
> subscriptions at once?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael
>

As to a list administrator changing the mail address of a user for all
of his subscriptions, that isn't allowed as a list administrator can
only change things relating to "his" list, so the "all subscriptions"
option is blocked for people logging in with list administrator access.

As to approving change of address requests, are you sure this is really
needed? Normally subscription approval is used to allow the list to only
go to "approved" people, so when the subscription comes in, you approve
the PERSON to receive the list, if they then chose to receive the list
at a different address, that shouldn't be an issue.

-- 
Richard Damon

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe with CGI script?

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Krylov Ivan  wrote:
> Tom Browder wrote:
>>
>>  my $response = $browser->post(
>>
>> "https://host.org/cgi-bin/mailman/$oper/$list";,
>>   email=>  $enc_email,
>>   fullname =>  $enc_name,
>>  );
>
>
> LWP::UserAgent documentation says on the ->post() method:
>>
>>This method will use the POST() function from
>> "HTTP::Request::Common"
>
>>to build the request.  See HTTP::Request::Common for a
>>details on how to pass form content and
>>other advanced features.
>
> The request form you needed is POST($url, {field => "value"}), otherwise you
> will create HTTP headers, not POST data.

I made two errors pointed out by Ivan: (1) I dumbly forgot to wrap the
hash args in curly braces and (2) I should NOT have encoded the field
values.

With those two corrections all works well!

Thanks very much, Ivan.

Best regards,

-Tom
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe with CGI script?

[Tom Browder]

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 04:39 AM, Tom Browder wrote:
...
> I assume $oper is 'subscribe'. There is apparently some incompatibility
> between the way perl supplies the post data and the way Python's
> cgi.FieldStorage() retrieves it as it is either not seeing the 'email'
> name or its value is empty. Those are the only things that produce the
> "You must supply a valid email address." response.

Thanks, Mark, but Ivan caught my Perl errors.  With those corrections
all works well.  Mailman does what it is expected to do.

Best regards,

-Tom
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